L plates are dangerous!

[Pascal]

I'm utterly fuming at the moment.

Why is it that cagers have such a desire to kill any motorcyclist displaying a L-Plate?

This morning coming down Greenlane Rd, I filtered through the traffic stopped at the light and pulled away. As normal, good traffic speed and everything fine. Coming down to the second set of lights just before the roundabout, I see the gold SUV that was behind me racing up at a rate of knots. He swerved into the left lane, saw the bus just down the hill and then basically cut across into my lane, missing me by less than a ruler's length.

Thank #@$! I had anticipated this type of lunacy and swung wider to the right, otherwise he'd have taken me out. And looking at his speed, he must have been doing somewhere in the 80+ km/h region. In a 50 zone.

I suspect he got annoyed that a small, L-plate motorcycle had the good fortune to filter through traffic and generally have an easier time in traffic than he does.

But, I stopped next to him and knocked on his window. This was a mistake, but I wanted to ask him to be a bit more careful around motorcyclists. And what does he do? Leans out and smacks me across the face with his forearm, before racing off. He wasn't bright enough to realize that smacking a helmet has little effect on the rider.

I only caught part of his license plate (CH something), so I'm going to have to go file a police report and hope they can catch him. But this is starting to get ridiculous. I want to take that L-plate off and just ride around, because it seems that as soon as a motorist sees an "L" plate they assume it's a learner / slow vehicle that will be holding them up / annoying them / in their way / whatever and just start driving like idiots.

Okay. Rant and vent over. Deep breaths and all that. And maybe time for a smoke as well.

[hayd3n]

lucky the wanker didint so worse
loose the l plate never does any good

[davebullet]

I got tapped from behind from a 4x4 driver when the lights turned green and I happened to be late by about 2 seconds moving off. This is with my L-plate on.

I decided to take it off for safety. My rationale is:
1. When people see an L-plate - they instantly think "god damn it, what is this learner loser going to do to make my trip slower (ie. ride slowly, stall, be slow in taking off etc...)
2. How can I swerve / get around this slow person? (encourages reckless driving).

Take the L-plate off. Seriously, you are better off risking a $400 fine for not having it, rather than being taken out.

The road code is wrong when it says L-plates promote tolerance from other drivers. Quite the reverse from what I've experienced.

Dave.

[DarkLord]

I agree with Dave. L plates seem to attract nothing but unwanted attention from car drivers. You're better off not having it on there. Sorry to hear about your morning bro. Some of those bastards deserve a serious hiding. Or, at the very least, a smashed tail light or two. :eek:

[Pascal]

The road code is wrong when it says L-plates promote tolerance from other drivers. Quite the reverse from what I've experienced.

This has been my experience too, from both sides of the equation.

I know that when I used to see L-plates on a car my first reaction was, damnit, there's another 20 minutes tacked onto my trip because this person won't be able to indicate, accelerate and operate their vehicle. It still seems that way, but having been on the receiving end of driver L-plate rage I'm starting to teach myself to be patient around L-platers and to give them the room to build their confidence.

It's a bit of an attitude adjustment and I'm not afraid to admit I was an asshole too.

I still want to lose the L-Plate though :)

[Macros]

The only reason why I have mine on is the hope that I may get insurance one day.

[PrincessBandit]

Had my share of that experience too, as a moron-magnet the yellow square will only attract morons. But I had to wonder whether the considerably more numerous motorists I shared the road with while I was on my L plate were actually being considerate of the fact that it was there.
It's only the dickheads who decide to have "fun" with an L plater and cause us grief that tend to get our attention.
You won't have that plate much longer anyway (it's only a min of 6 months - how far through that are you?) but it's your decision. All the best young grasshopper and just remember that while it is easy enough to attract unwanted attention when we're minding our own business and not pissing anyone esle off sometimes the dickwads who "target" riders don't necessarily do so because of the yellow attachment on their bike.

[sinfull]

The only reason why I have mine on is the hope that I may get insurance one day.
Now thats the attitude we like to see !!!

Cracked me up when i saw "Oh i knocked on his window to ask him to be a bit more carefull around motorcycles "
Bwahahaha thought it might have been obvious that he was an aggressive twat when he came after ya !
Sure we all hate to see twats get all humpty when a bike filters past them in their "king of the road" SUV But.....
Lesson 1 / filter past frustrated drivers (particuly with an L plate), Ya gonna get that !
Lesson 2 / knock on the drivers window or follow them till they stop, Ya gonna get that !

[sunhuntin]

boy theres some incosiderate twats around. i kept my l plate on the whole time i had it. [some 2 years due to laziness and lack of confidence] and never got any major hassle from cagers that could be pinned on the plate. hassle from cagers for whatever other reason, yeh, but not due to being an l plate.

and when following an l plated vehicle, no matter what it is, if ya dont want the supposed 20 mins added to a trip, take an alternate route. i have no trouble following them, and even follow the idea around them [ie, dont crowd/tail gate them or get frustrated when they do stuff up] we were all learners once.

pascal, im picking the cager you encountered wasnt annoyed by your l plate. he was likely annoyed by the fact you are on a bike and left him sitting in the dust.

[roogazza]

This is New Zealand, if you are going to knock on a window , you have to be prepared to fight ! What, you were going to discuss it, pfft !

and 2. always get the plate number, what ever happens, then you can make a complaint.
I prefer other methods.

[awayatc]

I hope I never get sentenced to having to live in Auckland........

What about getting an exemption to ride a bigger bike on your "L", lots of people get that succesfully done, and I find the bigger a bike you ride the less shit you get.....Or so it seems to me...

Oh and sometimes there are just plain idiots out there...
(especialy your end of the woods apparently)....:chase:
Give em space....
Let them go....
You only got to deal with them for a few seconds, they've got to be them for the rest of their miserable lives.....
Karma will sort it all out.....
Always does

[Tank]

2 Comments. Firstly as someone has said - if you knock on a window be prepared for what ever comes out of it. If you ain't don't escalate the issue. It could have been a lot worse.

About the L-Plate. Most of you are wrong. (yep - I went there).

Think about this for a second - before you started biking would you deliberately scare a new rider? Would your family members? Friends?

Im guessing most people are saying no (at least I hope so).

What I think most of us feel (and I had this as well) - is that its scary riding a bike when you are new. Things that don't look scary in a car - are on a bike. That car behind you who "may be a bit close" when you are in the car seems to be right on your ass when you are riding a bike - its just perception.

Nobody (ok - very very few) people actually go out of their way to scare or run down "L" riders.

Don't worry - as you get more exprienced the problem does lessen.

As an aside - I ride a big ass V-Strom (no L plate) and have no more issues than when I ride my wifes AN125 around town with a "L" plate on the back.

[Marmoot]

It's an initiation rite of passage to adulthood.

You ain't deserve the Full if you've never been to hell and back.

The bad driving condition is the other drivers trying to teach you what you can expect on normal daily road. They're kind enough to spend a few seconds giving you valuable lessons, you should be thankful to them.

I curse those who instead avoid L-plated vehicles like plague.

[Pascal]

2 Comments. Firstly as someone has said - if you knock on a window be prepared for what ever comes out of it. If you ain't don't escalate the issue. It could have been a lot worse.

Yeah, I recognized that as a mistake. Just two weeks ago I was sideswiped by a van who didn't look (I was level with his front, so his passenger side door hit my leg). That earlier fright, combined with the shock was probably what overrode common sense raised the desire to actually tell him to be more careful. There's a lot of us out there and we have just as much right to be on the road, etc.

However, the police also said - just get the plate and don't talk to them - just come to us. Unfortunately they cannot do searches on partial plates, and in the rush of adrenaline / shock I didn't remember the rest of it. Bad memory, old age, who knows?

As to your other question, I don't think of it as a case of "targeting L-platers", but more a case of a conditioned response to having a learner slow you down. As a motorist I knew I was impatient and that impatience leads to reckless driving and accidents. Now I'm more careful, because I'd rather arrive at my destination late than not at all. So it's more a case of impatience leading to reckless driving because of the L plate, which endangers the L plate rider, rather than a deliberate targeting.

[Finn]

Speaking as an SUV cage driver, you may see an L plate but I see a target. If you can't survive your L plate period, you have little hope once your ego takes control.

Perhaps as a learner you shouldn't be filtering just yet.

On that note, just yesterday, some minion corporate punk on a brand new Vespa filtered past me and was in front of me at the lights. Fine, I don't have a problem with that. I do the same however, be prepared for the green light as unlike most kiwi's, within a millisecond of it going green, the accelerator is subjected to as much force as my little leg can muster. This punk decided to take off at sightseeing pace in the middle of the lane and must have sharted as I stood my ground and went past him. He tried his best to give me a dirty look but it just doesn't work wearing a suit on an orange Vespa.

[Kendog]

I wonder if I would see anything different if I put an L plate on my bike (is that legal when you have a full licence?)

I filter a fair bit and see some bad driving, but I expect it and ride to the conditions. I wonder if the cages driving would be more agressive if I had the L plate on.

[Lilly2w]

I've had my L plate on for the whole six months (HOPEfuly coming off next week!) I've riden all over wellington and never really experienced any major twatiness that I would atribute to my L plate, just the usual idioicy that you generally expect from other drivers regardless of being on 2 wheels or 4. The one thing I have noticed is that there are a lot of people who don't appreciate being over taken and often put their foot down to prevent me getting past, I don't know if they take this action for any particular reason. I've never stopped to ask.

[Pascal]

Perhaps as a learner you shouldn't be filtering just yet.

Fair point. Given the lengthy discussions around filtering I've done the following:

1. Tried to follow other motorcyclists to see how they do it. There was a guy on a BMW last night who did a particularly grand job, thanked the motorists. So, I try "monkey see, monkey do" and learn from people who've been there.

2. Never filter through moving traffic. At the moment I'm still learning, so I only use it when the traffic is stopped and then only at between 10 and 20km/h.

[Fatt Max]

Sorry to hear about the crappy start to the day, f*****g cager's.

I have my L plates on preferreing to avoid a possible fine and all the crap that goes with it. Personally I have not had too much hassle by displaying the 'Black n Yellow', just a bit of piss taking I suppose.

I see cagers hassle other cagers with L plate so there are a few with the crap attitude. At the end of the day, it;s your choice to have them, but hopefully either way you dont get more of this crap.

Ride on bruvver....

[The Pastor]

It doesnt stop when the l plate comes off!

[MSTRS]

Every time I read one of these threads I think to myself "Here we go again"
Prattish behaviour from other motorists is NOTHING to do with the L plate. It's called the learner stage for good reason, as part of what you must learn is to recognise this type of driver in time to avoid them in future.
I've had a full license for 35 years and I see this shit around me too. The difference is I expect it, am not taken by surprise and can (hopefully) not get caught up in something nasty.
Keep wearing the yellow plate. It is a signal that most will recognise and give you more time/space to get on with riding. The prats won't care either way.

[NighthawkNZ]

I got tapped from behind from a 4x4 driver when the lights turned green and I happened to be late by about 2 seconds moving off. This is with my L-plate on.

I would got off the bike walked to his side window... punched and head butted the prick with the edge of the visor... and then say see its just a little tap... and next time you do it I will get angry... then climb back on the bike and ride off in to the sunset..

if you are to scared to do that than get off the bike (blocking there path walk round to the back write down rego and model etc... walk past the window and say will see you in court... then ring the police... and let them fully sort it out...

[Reckless]

Every time I read one of these threads I think to myself "Here we go again"
Prattish behaviour from other motorists is NOTHING to do with the L plate. It's called the learner stage for good reason, as part of what you must learn is to recognise this type of driver in time to avoid them in future.
I've had a full license for 35 years and I see this shit around me too. The difference is I expect it, am not taken by surprise and can (hopefully) not get caught up in something nasty.
Keep wearing the yellow plate. It is a signal that most will recognise and give you more time/space to get on with riding. The prats won't care either way.

Good post mate! Agreed!
I also think a bit of the difference between L platers and us, is that once you've been riding a while you leave a lot of the so called trouble behind. Ie your on a bigger bike, doin things a lot quicker. Therefore the prick in the first post would only see your rear wheel and you'd never even realise he was a tool! You'd be at the next set of lights between the next set of cars while Mr Dickhead was fuming at the back of the line! Karma and it feels good!
But that said, mstrs is quite right, we all come up against Mr Dickhead every now and then L plate or not!
You either let it go or boot his rear tail light in and ride off grinning at the cost and inconvenience you've created for him!! Your choice!

[elevenhundred]

If you and your bike look initimidating then you get less of those issues.
I've walked over to a few cars and stared at the driver with my tinted visor down, most of the time they won't even look at you and are just hoping you will go away.

[thehollowmen]

One day soon I'm going to put an L plate on my bike (the 1200 cc one) and mount video cameras forward and rear.

I'd also be making frequent trips to the police station to supply them with evidence.

[Finn]

It doesnt stop when the l plate comes off!

Try the maintenance forum.

[Swoop]

I wonder if I would see anything different if I put an L plate on my bike (is that legal when you have a full licence?)
No.

Mr Ixion has pointed out the law that prevents doing this... unfortunately.

[imdying]

2 Comments. Firstly as someone has said - if you knock on a window be prepared for what ever comes out of it. If you ain't don't escalate the issue. It could have been a lot worse.To be fair, I think the bash came from guilt, I've knocked on peoples windows before to tell them they've left their boot/petrol flap/whatever open etc.

[The Pastor]

No.

Mr Ixion has pointed out the law that prevents doing this... unfortunately.
linky ?

[MSTRS]

No.

Mr Ixion has pointed out the law that prevents doing this... unfortunately.

Not so sure about that. However, anyone in/on an L plated conveyance may be constrained by the learner rules. So definitely illegal to place one on a 1200. etc

[musicman]

No.

Mr Ixion has pointed out the law that prevents doing this... unfortunately.

Why? I see cars around with L-plates and only driver alone (so obviously NOT a learner) so why can't bikes have L-plates past the learner stage??

[PrincessBandit]

Why? I see cars around with L-plates and only driver alone (so obviously NOT a learner) so why can't bikes have L-plates past the learner stage??

Because cars are special, their drivers are "special needs" ooops i mean have special needs.

Also, because the family car is more likely to have multiple drivers at different levels and it;s sooooo easy just to leave them there when the young daughter or son has been out for their driving lesson.

[Tank]

Not so sure about that. However, anyone in/on an L plated conveyance may be constrained by the learner rules. So definitely illegal to place one on a 1200. etc

Its the rider who must have the plate - not the bike.

So when I had my exemption I had a L-Plate on a 800cc bike - and had to as part of the requirements.

[Ixion]

Why? I see cars around with L-plates and only driver alone (so obviously NOT a learner) so why can't bikes have L-plates past the learner stage??


Not so sure about that. However, anyone in/on an L plated conveyance may be constrained by the learner rules. So definitely illegal to place one on a 1200. etc


linky ?


No.

Mr Ixion has pointed out the law that prevents doing this... unfortunately.

The law :

Driver Licensing Rule 1999 S 104



Prohibition on display of L plate except in appropriate circumstances
A person must not drive, on a road, a motor vehicle that displays an L plate as specified in clause 66 unless that person—
(a) Holds a learner licence of the class that relates to that vehicle in accordance with Schedule 3; or
(b) Immediately prior to driving has been, or is about to be, accompanying the person in paragraph (a) in accordance with clause 16(1)(a); or
(c) Holds a driving instructor or testing officer endorsement and is driving a vehicle used for purposes connected with that endorsement.


The number of times I've posted that, it ought to be made a sticky.

[The Pastor]

The law :

Driver Licensing Rule 1999 S 104



The number of times I've posted that, it ought to be made a sticky.
is there a fine for it tho?

[mattian]

I tend to agree with renegade master. You are going to encounter assholes like this on the roads with or without your L plate. If you ride a bike you need to get used to it. If you're going to tap on people windows to have a little chat expect them to see that as provocation. Stay calm and keep a level head. If you feel like your life has been put in danger then go straight to your nearest police station..... what happened to you was assault and its a pity you didnt get the number plate.

[quickbuck]

(c) Holds a driving instructor or testing officer endorsement and is driving a vehicle used for purposes connected with that endorsement.

So, IF I was a licenced motorcycle instructor.....
And I had an L plate on my bike I used to instruct on..... and heading off to a students house/ or area of instruction... I can get away with the L plate?

OR, the law doesn't say anything about riding though.... (unless there are definitions in the said publication that I can't see from here).

Then again, not really worth loosing the licence to instruct for.

[moT]

I'm utterly fuming at the moment.

Why is it that cagers have such a desire to kill any motorcyclist displaying a L-Plate?

This morning coming down Greenlane Rd, I filtered through the traffic stopped at the light and pulled away. As normal, good traffic speed and everything fine. Coming down to the second set of lights just before the roundabout, I see the gold SUV that was behind me racing up at a rate of knots. He swerved into the left lane, saw the bus just down the hill and then basically cut across into my lane, missing me by less than a ruler's length.

Thank #@$! I had anticipated this type of lunacy and swung wider to the right, otherwise he'd have taken me out. And looking at his speed, he must have been doing somewhere in the 80+ km/h region. In a 50 zone.

I suspect he got annoyed that a small, L-plate motorcycle had the good fortune to filter through traffic and generally have an easier time in traffic than he does.

But, I stopped next to him and knocked on his window. This was a mistake, but I wanted to ask him to be a bit more careful around motorcyclists. And what does he do? Leans out and smacks me across the face with his forearm, before racing off. He wasn't bright enough to realize that smacking a helmet has little effect on the rider.

I only caught part of his license plate (CH something), so I'm going to have to go file a police report and hope they can catch him. But this is starting to get ridiculous. I want to take that L-plate off and just ride around, because it seems that as soon as a motorist sees an "L" plate they assume it's a learner / slow vehicle that will be holding them up / annoying them / in their way / whatever and just start driving like idiots.

Okay. Rant and vent over. Deep breaths and all that. And maybe time for a smoke as well.

I really sympathise with you but your one off incident does not convince me that your claim of L plates are dangerous to be true. Your arguement lacks facts and statistics that L plates are dangerous. eg: Do statistics point to more deaths or accidents with L plates than none? Personaly I dont think L plates make you crash more, or make you more prone to dangerous encounters, or make car drivers want to kill you. Until you can display facts and reserch done by credable sources to back up your claim that L plates induce homicidal behavior, I will not be convinced. This story on the other hand would make a nice attention grabber for a pursuasive speech.

[Slyer]

I don't know I'm always more careful around L platers, but the number of dicks I see driving their cars with them and clearly aren't learners annoys me...

[sunhuntin]

you get to pick the ones that are and that ones that arent. so far, to my recollection, ive only encountered one genuine l plate driver, and it was obvious due to the youth of the driver. i just hung right back, mainly to keep the cars behind me from getting to close to her. gave her heaps of room and all the patience ive got to make her smooth move from the give way at one of the worst RAB's in town. i figure ill do my part to make someones l plate time easier, even if only for a few seconds.