Xtra's at it again, using a proxy to get into KB

[sinfull]

And man this free proxy is slow !!!
Don\'t suppose anyone found out why this happened last time, so i can explain the problem to them when i call ?

[Nasty]

And man this free proxy is slow !!!
Don\'t suppose anyone found out why this happened last time, so i can explain the problem to them when i call ?

mom is ringing telescum now ... tell them can not access

go into command promt type

tracert kiwibiker .co.nz
it sends a ping trace and all the steps ... tells you what times out - them ring them and tell them that information. that is what mom said.

[Blossom]

yep same here. About to ring telescum myself.
good luck all.
For what its worth www.freeproxyserver.net is slow but so far no popups or loss of site info.

[MSTRS]

Me too. Times out at step 3. Just like last time.

[Nasty]

You just gotta keep hammering telescum and get them to take a note of the job numbers ... then hammer them when they don't fix it .. again :(

[Pussy]

Any updates? I'm accessing through clearnet at the moment.... dial up, very slow.
Anyone got a positive response from Telecom yet?

[shingo]

Me too. Times out at step 3. Just like last time.

Trace routes don't work via the command prompt with telecom (or most ISP's for that matter) as i believe they block it at their routers. Try doing a trace route for other websites and you will see what i mean.

I have just done a trace route using VisualRoute and it does get there eventually, so i'm buggered if i know whats going on (and yes, i'm on xtra too).

[sinfull]

Found a faster proxy lol still has a few glitches like quoting ppl when i hit quick reply but it's fast !
www.surfunblocked.com

[Ixion]

Also. Have to find a decent proxy or get the vodem working. F**King Xtra. Sorry I'm an old man, I don't have enough life left to spend a significant amount of it sitting in a phhone queue just to be told to reboot my router

[Ixion]

This really is remarkably vexatious.

Does noone on the site know someone high up in Telescum ?

[riffer]

Now ya see that shit just confuses the hell out of me ! I tried to ring telecum only to be put on hold for twenty min, spoke pigeon engrish to some indian and got nowhere ! But hey thats xtra for ya !
Wonder if vbulleten have shares in xtra's opposition ? Oh yeah what opposition !


Get used to it. They're moving ALL help offshore.

I'm sorry you don't have access to Telstra Cable.

As consolation, here's a bloody good article explaining traceroute.

http://www.windowsnetworking.com/articles_tutorials/Using-Tracert.html

[sinfull]

Get used to it. They're moving ALL help offshore.

I'm sorry you don't have access to Telstra Cable.

As consolation, here's a bloody good article explaining traceroute.

http://www.windowsnetworking.com/articles_tutorials/Using-Tracert.html Hehe cheers mate have added it to my favs and will read it when it might sink in ! Now is not (hick) the time !

[Ixion]

Get used to it. They're moving ALL help offshore.



The really annoying thing is that I don't NEED or WANT help.

I know perfectly well that this is a Telecom/Xtra problem, I just want them to fix their fuck up.

Bu tit is no use whatsoever calling them they are totally useless.

[sinfull]

The really annoying thing is that I don't NEED or WANT help.

I know perfectly well that this is a Telecom/Xtra problem, I just want them to fix their fuck up.

Bu tit is no use whatsoever calling them they are totally useless.
+1 on that ! I can reboot me pc, i can chase viruses to porn hell and back, but i cant handle sitting on a phone for ages waiting to talk to some foreign dude who has no idea of the stress i'm going through ! (bwahahaha i needed a piss after 5 min and no cordless) think he missunderstood me a little cause when i said "i want to piss on you" he said thank you !

[Trumpess]

I too have had the same problem, all day.
I could go everywhere else except here.
Im on vtunnel.com as proxy thanks to my child, who knows a bit more than me.
Was on here last night not a problem, but not today :(
I have had withdrawls!

This carry on didnt affect me the last time it happened, but happened to others, weird! Vice versa with today.

I rang telecom and he talked me through a whole heap of crap that was totally irrelavant. It wasnt me thats the problem. Very unhelpfull.
I know this kind of thing happens alot, you would think they would know what to do?

[Gubb]

think he missunderstood me a little cause when i said "i want to piss on you" he said thank you !

5 bucks says he knew exactly what you said to him.

[discotex]

Ok so I'm confused....

The two people who've posted traceroute's are TelstraClear customers..........

And ~120ms isn't a problem for an off-shore hop - there's limits around the speed of light to consider people!

So what's the problem again?

(On Xtra Go-Large and it's fine here)

BTW, if there is a fuckup off shore (i.e. only a few sites not everything) it's not your ISPs problem regardless of who you're with. Unfortunately that's the nature of the internet. Rest assured some poor geek overseas will be being harassed to fix their corner of the net even if you don't call to complain.

[discotex]

I know this kind of thing happens alot, you would think they would know what to do?

The best thing they can do is explain why it's out of their hands. How's the helpdesk guy going to fix a problem in some other unknown company's network on the other side of the world?

Of course they should spend some time doing some basic checks to make sure it's nothing here in NZ that's bung first. E.g. "can you get to site X?" "can you get to site Y?" etc.

[discotex]

I don't care if the munter router is an Xtra one or an offshore one. I pay Xtra good coin for a service, I expect them to deliver.Thye are the ones who decide who and where to outsource to , and what third parties to use for off shore services. If they are using dodgy routes (usually, cos they are cheaper) then that is up to them to rectify. Right smartish.

The internet doesn't work like that Ixion. Your ISP has no idea what route your traffic is going to take. They buy a connection to their neighbour. Then their neighbour buys a connection to someone else. And so on.

The first party has no relationship with anyone other than the next hop. This "mesh" effect is why the internet is resilient to law/copyright enforcement/nukes/etc.

If ISPs paid for a guaranteed circuit end to end (say like a phone connection) you'd be paying for $10 per 2 hours and only one site at a time.

So yes, hop 13 is a little screwed. You could email cogentco.com about it..... Small boutique ISPs would probably do that on your behalf. Once they get over 20 staff that goes out the window tho.

[sinfull]

5 bucks says he knew exactly what you said to him.
Get him here so i can look him in the eye and i'll make it a tenner lol, unless his mothers buttered chicken is a good one mmmm then its my shout !
Nah he was ok, had no idea what was going on with the network, it was more the fact i had to wait 20 min to get my call logged had me so pissed off i blurted it out lol
If i wasn't soooo busting i would have waited for the "we'd like your comments on how you found our service during your call" bit and pissed down the handset at them ! (if i was at someone elses place, like someones ! God knows who lol, not anyone i knew ! Ok so i wouldn't have, but man i wanted to !)

[skidMark]

I just like...

Use the site and stuff...

*shrug*

[SixPackBack]

I found a solution (http://www.orcon.net.nz/home/?gclid=CLvGguWByJgCFQ9JagodtgL32w) and saved myself a good wad of cash

[FJRider]

5 bucks says he knew exactly what you said to him.

He obviously has completed "customer relations, part one"

Customer relation skills in a company full of problems is very important...

[Pussy]

Xtra seems to be working again.....

[Blossom]

Well I am able to log back on now. dont know what telescum did if anything, just glad I dont have to use a poxy server anymore (no that wasn't a typo)
:whistle:

[marioc]

They are just poorly paid HDA's sadly

[riffer]

Y'all gonna love this article (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4840112a11.html) then...

[tide]

First tracert is Xtra
Second is Vodafone


Hi Ixion...

Please can you redo the traceroutes again... I work for an ISP and just interested in seeing if there are any difference now that Telescum are working

Discotex is right... there is no such thing as guarantee's on the internet once the traffic has passed your service providers network.

[Ixion]

The internet doesn't work like that Ixion. Your ISP has no idea what route your traffic is going to take. They buy a connection to their neighbour. Then their neighbour buys a connection to someone else. And so on.

The first party has no relationship with anyone other than the next hop. This "mesh" effect is why the internet is resilient to law/copyright enforcement/nukes/etc.

If ISPs paid for a guaranteed circuit end to end (say like a phone connection) you'd be paying for $10 per 2 hours and only one site at a time.

So yes, hop 13 is a little screwed. You could email cogentco.com about it..... Small boutique ISPs would probably do that on your behalf. Once they get over 20 staff that goes out the window tho.

Not so. This is no different to taking my bike to a bike shop. Some services that they undertake to do, they will not be able to do themselves. They will send them out to a third party. Who in turn may send them to yet another third party. The depth of subcontracting will not be great in the bike service industry, but in building for instance it may be very deep.

Now, I pay the bike shop (or Telecom) for a service. I expect it to be provided. Part of the task of meeting that expectation is that the service provider needs to select the parties he subcontracts to with care. And take regard of who they in turn employ. If they fail him, he fails me.

At one time I worked as a QA Manager. part of my job was to audit the third party contractors we used. Part of that audit was to conder the relations between the third party and those who he , in turn, contracted to. We expected him to have Service Level Agreements. And audits. And such. If his subcontractors stuffed up, it was on his head.

If I take my bike to a bike shop and they agree to repair it, then when I collect it it will not run, I will not accept "Oh, that is nothing to do with us, we are not interested, because we sent your cylinders to be rebored, and the engineer we sent them to has stuffed up, nothing to do with us". EVERYTHING to do with you

So, if Telescum are making poor choice of their related parties (and given their "never mind the quality, show me the price" attitude, that does not surprise me), I do NOT accept "Oh, it's nothing to do with us".

Telecom have contracted to provide a service. They have failed to provide it. Whether that failure be of their own , or of their agents, is irrelevant to me, both in fact and in law. My contract is with them, I expect them to fulfill their obligations.

[Trumpess]

I totally agree with you Ixion :niceone:

[Ixion]

Hi Ixion...

Please can you redo the traceroutes again... I work for an ISP and just interested in seeing if there are any difference now that Telescum are working

Discotex is right... there is no such thing as guarantee's on the internet once the traffic has passed your service providers network.

Red is Telecom last night
Green is Vodafone (last night and now, no change)
Blue is Telecom now

Interestingly the two Telecom routes are quite different once the locla bit is passed.



C:\>tracert 216.237.127.134

Tracing route to 216-237-127-134.infortech.net [216.237.127.134]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 10.10.10.1
2 44 ms 44 ms 45 ms 219-89-54-1.adsl.xtra.co.nz [219.89.54.1]
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 43 ms 48 ms 41 ms xe6-0-0-10.akbr5.global-gateway.net.nz [202.37.2
44.221]
5 41 ms 46 ms 45 ms xe0-0-0-2.akbr4.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.23
2.77]
6 45 ms 46 ms 48 ms so1-1-1.tkbr9.global-gateway.net.nz [203.96.120.
194]
7 186 ms * 168 ms so0-3-1.labr5.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.
254]
8 168 ms 182 ms 188 ms so0-0-1.lebr6.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.
98]
9 186 ms 187 ms 185 ms gi1-13.mpd01.lax05.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.12
.141]
10 191 ms 186 ms 186 ms te4-2.mpd02.lax01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.6.1
89]
11 187 ms 195 ms 187 ms te9-3.mpd01.sjc01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.25.
190]
12 188 ms 186 ms 186 ms te4-3.mpd01.sjc05.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.6.7
4]
13 359 ms 197 ms 216 ms infortech-corp.demarc.cogentco.com [38.104.134.5
0]
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * ^C
C:\>tracert 216.237.127.134

Tracing route to 216-237-127-134.infortech.net [216.237.127.134]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 353 ms 369 ms 409 ms 172.26.74.38
2 99 ms 99 ms 129 ms 172.26.66.91
3 112 ms 129 ms 119 ms 172.26.65.124
4 100 ms 129 ms 109 ms 172.26.71.162
5 98 ms 109 ms 109 ms 172.26.65.188
6 106 ms 109 ms 109 ms 172.26.86.35
7 105 ms 119 ms 109 ms 172.26.86.66
8 102 ms 119 ms 119 ms gi3-13-1103.akl-sky-bdr1.ihug.net [203.109.143.2
2]
9 90 ms 129 ms 119 ms Gi15-2.gw1.akl1asianetcom.net [203.192.166.41]
10 257 ms 249 ms 239 ms po2-0.gw1.lax1.asianetcom.net [202.147.61.189]
11 234 ms 239 ms 269 ms po0-1-0.gw3.lax1.asianetcom.net [202.147.61.202]

12 273 ms 279 ms 269 ms 10gigabitethernet2-3.core1.lax1.he.net [216.218.
223.205]
13 249 ms 259 ms 259 ms 10gigabitethernet1-3.core1.pao1.he.net [72.52.92
.21]
14 234 ms 260 ms 248 ms 10gigabitethernet3-4.core1.sjc1.he.net [72.52.92
.113]
15 283 ms 279 ms 279 ms 64.62.133.170
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 488 ms 539 ms 569 ms 216-237-127-134.infortech.net [216.237.127.134]


Trace complete.

C:\>

C:\>tracert 216.237.127.134

Tracing route to 216-237-127-134.infortech.net [216.237.127.134]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms 10.10.10.1
2 49 ms 43 ms 45 ms 219-89-54-1.adsl.xtra.co.nz [219.89.54.1]
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 43 ms 55 ms 40 ms xe6-0-0-10.akbr5.global-gateway.net.nz [202.37.2
44.221]
5 42 ms 42 ms 42 ms xe0-0-0-2.akbr4.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.23
2.77]
6 43 ms 46 ms 46 ms so1-1-1.tkbr9.global-gateway.net.nz [203.96.120.
194]
7 * 236 ms 186 ms so0-1-1.labr5.global-gateway.net.nz [203.96.120.
78]
8 182 ms 169 ms 166 ms so0-0-1.lebr6.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.
98]
9 188 ms 186 ms 185 ms gi1-3.mpd01.lax05.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.13.
121]
10 195 ms 186 ms 187 ms te4-2.mpd02.lax01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.6.1
89]
11 186 ms 187 ms 186 ms te9-3.mpd01.sjc01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.25.
190]
12 188 ms 185 ms 186 ms te4-3.mpd01.sjc05.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.6.7
4]
13 345 ms 219 ms 219 ms infortech-corp.demarc.cogentco.com [38.104.134.5
0]
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 189 ms 174 ms 175 ms 216-237-127-134.infortech.net [216.237.127.134]


Trace complete.

C:\>

[discotex]

Now, I pay the bike shop (or Telecom) for a service. I expect it to be provided.

...

Telecom have contracted to provide a service. They have failed to provide it. Whether that failure be of their own , or of their agents, is irrelevant to me, both in fact and in law. My contract is with them, I expect them to fulfill their obligations.

That's where your understanding of what you're contracting Telecom to provide is wrong. It is nothing like subcontracting. Do you honestly thing Telecom have contracts with the millions of other providers out there? Of course not. That's the internet mate. It's why it's great. It's also a PITA when it's broken.

When you pay an internet provider you are only paying for a connection to their *edge* of the internet. Not the end-to-end connections. You pay your ISP for the cables in their network. No more, no less. If you read the T&Cs of any ISP's contract you will find that the case.

Now don't get me wrong - Telecom do have issues within their sphere of control from time to time (that they are contracted to provide) and should be taken to order if those issues aren't sorted. Ditto for the many ISPs that have a worse service.

And of course no-one is forcing you to be with Telecom. The industry is truly consumer choice now so go where you feel you get the best service at a price you're happy to pay.


I totally agree with you Ixion :niceone:

Much as it'd be nice if it worked that way it doesn't. It used to before the internet with things like CompuServe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CompuServe). You got a guarantee end-to-end, it cost you $20/hr and had about a millionth (if that) of the content available now. Oh yeah and you couldn't see content on the other competing networks.

Because one company owned the network sites KiwiBikers and YouTubes of the world weren't allowed either. The guy with the network had all the power and got all the cash.

Thankfully the internet broke the power of the networks to control everything and now it's a free-for-all.

[imdying]

That's where your understanding of what you're contracting Telecom to provide is wrong.I hate to say it Ixion, but he's correct... go and look what you contracted them to supply; a million bucks says your contract doesn't specify consistently reliable access to every node on the internet. Cause, you know, that's impossible and all.

[tide]

Red is Telecom last night
Green is Vodafone (last night and now, no change)
Blue is Telecom now

Interestingly the two Telecom routes are quite different once the locla bit is passed.

Hi... having a look at the traceroutes you sent... the vodaphone one is just fine as is the start of the two telecom ones, the break come at the connection between Cogetnco and Infortech, why or what that problem is who knows... could be congestion, a break in peering policy (the process where ISP advertise there IP address space to each other), or problem with the physical connection. As discotex says telecom has no control over their network what so ever... as smaller boteque provider might contact Cogentco and request them to have a look at the problem with out expection, but telecom is too big to be able to chase every problem out there...

As for the differences between the routes between telecom and vodaphone, they use different internation providers, Global Gateway and Asianetcom(PACNET) respectively and inturn they have different peering agreements with there upstream and downstream connections... it is the internet.


That's where your understanding of what you're contracting Telecom to provide is wrong. It is nothing like subcontracting. Do you honestly thing Telecom have contracts with the millions of other providers out there? Of course not. That's the internet mate. It's why it's great. It's also a PITA when it's broken.

When you pay an internet provider you are only paying for a connection to their *edge* of the internet. Not the end-to-end connections. You pay your ISP for the cables in their network. No more, no less. If you read the T&Cs of any ISP's contract you will find that the case.

Now don't get me wrong - Telecom do have issues within their sphere of control from time to time (that they are contracted to provide) and should be taken to order if those issues aren't sorted. Ditto for the many ISPs that have a worse service.

And of course no-one is forcing you to be with Telecom. The industry is truly consumer choice now so go where you feel you get the best service at a price you're happy to pay.



Agreed... I am quite surprised the number of people that don't shop around and just go to telecom with out having a look at what is out there...

[Taz]

I couldn't get on for a time so I went for a ride, mowed the lawn, played with the kids, did the dishes, and serviced the wife. Life without KB aint that bad.