Powdercoating Motorcycle Frame

[wildcat_lgf]

Just a question on whether it is advisable to powdercoat a motorcycle frame. I have a '91 ZXR250C which is currently green white and blue and to be honest I'm over the colours...

I am wanting it to end up like the picture below...can I powdercoat the alloy frame? What sort of finish will I get? Will it last?

The other option is to paint it with POR15 Blackcote, which is apparantly nearly indestructable! However I would have to paint it myself, whereas I can get the whole frame, swing arm, wheels etc powdercoated for $150.

I don't want to pay $150 and then find it looks like a towel rail! :angry2:

Any help appreciated!

Cheers

[Waylander]

Should be good mate they do it to rims and such so I don't see why it can't be done to a frame and still look as good as the rims.

[Krusti]

Powder coated wifes trike frame,came out awesome.

[Paul in NZ]

Like everything - theres powder coaters and then theres powder coaters....

I got the Triumph frame done and it's average. Got some other stuff done by a more expensive company and it was shit hot. Ask around and find the shit hot guys first.

Paint will be way glossier but none of it will be any good unless properly appler and alloy can be a bugger. Ask what sort of warranty they offer, have they done this before etc etc.

Paul N

[Krusti]

Just make sure your certain of the finish and colour first!

[sedge]

The other option is to paint it with POR15 Blackcote, which is apparantly nearly indestructable! However I would have to paint it myself, whereas I can get the whole frame, swing arm, wheels etc powdercoated for $150.
Cheers

Couple of questions;

Do you still have to prep the frame before coating ? or do you just hand over the bits you want coated, coz that sounds like a pretty good deal for frame and wheels. Heh heh, I wonder if they could powder coat my tank and the metal seat unit I'm making up too.

What is POR15 ? Can you paint engine cases with it as well ?

I'm thinking I might as well do the frame and engine on my bike once I've dropped it out.

Cheers,

Sedge.

[wildcat_lgf]

I only just dropped the engine and everything off the bike today, took a good 4 hours...by that time it was about 3pm and so just took it down greasy and yuk as it was. They said they would do "pre-treatment" on it and clean it up for me. I still have to press out the bearings though :angry2:

So, with a bit of luck I just hand it over and they clean it, paint it and hand it back. $150 was a cash job, went somewhere else straight after and they told me $220 +I'd have to pay someone else to do pre-treatment!

Some guys off Carbine road apparantly do a really good job on cleaning the stuff first, and he said it was about $3.50 a kilo??? For that price I might get it done there before taking it to the $150 place, just to be sure.

POR15 is expensive paint but is apparantly awesome for rust killing, coating, engine enamels, petrol tank cleaning kits, etc. They will send you a free catalogue with pricelist if you ask from their website. Its worth a look through :niceone:

http://www.por15.co.nz/catalogue_request.htm

Or just look through their website
http://www.por15.co.nz/

Their paints are hammer tough, you can bend, twist, or belt it with a hammer, the metal with obviously be damaged but the paint won't chip or peel off.

Hope this helps,


Couple of questions;

Do you still have to prep the frame before coating ? or do you just hand over the bits you want coated, coz that sounds like a pretty good deal for frame and wheels. Heh heh, I wonder if they could powder coat my tank and the metal seat unit I'm making up too.

What is POR15 ? Can you paint engine cases with it as well ?

I'm thinking I might as well do the frame and engine on my bike once I've dropped it out.

Cheers,

Sedge.

[bugjuice]

as long as it's done right, I've seen some real nice examples. Both powder finish and (dare I say) chrome jobs.. I think chromed is ott, but shows a commitment, so while it might not be everyones cuppa, I think most will appreciate the effort gone into making a finish like that.
Anyway, back to the banana, yeah, cover it dude, as long as they can do a good job, should look sweet. What colour are the farings going to be? Thought about anything other than black for the frame? Can't think of anything to hand, but here's a prime oppotunity to be the little bit different..

[Suney]

I want to paint my bike that colour :(

[bugjuice]

I want to paint my bike that colour :(
what about orange? Everything looks good in 'range :yeah:

[scumdog]

Just be aware that all threaded areas will nee masked (the firm should be able to do it for you if you ask) and anywhere there is an already tight fit you may find you will have to scrape off some of the lovely powder-coat to get things back together - unless these areas are also masked.

You'd be surprised how the total amount of coating is when you have four surfaces coated with powder-coat where before there was nothing!

[vifferman]

I thought powder coating wasn't a good idea on aluminium alloy, because of the heat needed to bake it on?

[wildcat_lgf]

True, good point about 4 surfaces coated and a tight fit! Although I suppose those areas that meet won't be seen...Still I will have to give it a lite sand no doubt :(

Planning to do it like the photo below, then order some bumble-bee leathers in yellow and black! Nothing like being subtle aye :2thumbsup

Everything looks good in orange? I have to agree, orange/black or yellow/black are gorgeous!

Yep I'm going ahead with it, so will take it to get professionally cleaned first just to make sure (at Powerstrippers? off Carbine Rd), will keep you updated...then once its all painted I'll be able to fall off it and undo all my hard work!

[Coyote]

what about orange? Everything looks good in 'range :yeah:
New gay colour :bleh:

Wildcat, let me know how it goes, I wanted to do this aswell. BTW, are you dismantling the bike to get to the frame? If so, are you dismantling the bike or are you getting someone else to do this? The reason for me turning away from getting frame and swingarm from being powdercoated was I had no way of dismantling the bike, so I kinda had to forget about.

Don't forget, there is the other option of getting it anodised. Anodising gives it a even coat and it protects the metal, but you can't clean it off I don't think, so whatever colour you choose is one you have to stick with. Another advantage is that it is a very, very thin layer so everything should fit in place as before

One of many mods I wish to do to my bike :yeah:

[Bleck K6]

have a look at this thread it has a few opinions on painting vs powdercoating,you can also do a search on that site for powdercoating,black frame,painting frame etc and you will find lots of info http://www.tlplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34813&highlight=paint+frame

[RiderInBlack]

When I was looking at getting my alloy rims PCoated, they total me that they should be bead-blasted first due to the corrosion on the alloy. It was something to do with the micro pores made by the corrosion causing bubbling of the coat as it heat dried. The heat they use to dry the coat should not be high enough to ulter the alloy's temper.

[wildcat_lgf]

Yeah I've stripped the bike myself, took about 4 hours cause its my first time to strip it, plus I didn't want to disconnect any brake fluid lines or too much stuff, so that made life difficult to manovure the parts around. I've restored a cage or two so a bike is pretty simple compared...well so far! I haven't pulled the engine apart yet :2thumbsup

I'm currently taking up about 2/3 of a double garage and have it all laid out where the bolts should go, and all the pieces labelled (hopefully properly).

Is the anodising a gloss? I'm wanting a high quality gloss finish so thought powderdercoating would be the way to go?

Will let you know how it goes...its due to be done Thurs next week.

Yeah it could look like a honda, a mate did his '92 CBR600 F2 in ducati yellow, black wheels, no decals nothing...looked pretty good, but yeah it will remind me of a honda...is that a good thing? :no: :yes:


New gay colour :bleh:

Wildcat, let me know how it goes, I wanted to do this aswell. BTW, are you dismantling the bike to get to the frame? If so, are you dismantling the bike or are you getting someone else to do this? The reason for me turning away from getting frame and swingarm from being powdercoated was I had no way of dismantling the bike, so I kinda had to forget about.

Don't forget, there is the other option of getting it anodised. Anodising gives it a even coat and it protects the metal, but you can't clean it off I don't think, so whatever colour you choose is one you have to stick with. Another advantage is that it is a very, very thin layer so everything should fit in place as before

One of many mods I wish to do to my bike :yeah:

[TwoSeven]

When you strip the bike down, do it in entire assemblies, and label all connectors (especially wiring on to the engine). Dont pull the assemblies apart.

The frame/wheels etc need to be bead blasted first, and you have to make sure that the bead blaster takes it to be painted as it can only sit in open air for a few hours. Often you will find that many powder coaters also do the bead plasting or have a mate that does.

Generally you have to wait for the powder coater to do a run in your color which can mean a bit of a wait.

When you put everything back together, you need to remove all the masking tape that covered up bearings and the like - then replace those bearings - there isnt too much to do.

The only pain in the ass bit is the frame tensioner bolt (on modern bikes - its often on of the rear engine mount bolts) needs to be done to a specific torque and they can be a pain to get at.

The other thing is that many of your nuts and bolts will need to be replaced (the ones that attach bits to the frame) as you dont want rusted or corroded bolts on your new paintwork. Use locktite and grease only where required on the manual as applying it in the wrong place may result in stripped threads.

[pritch]

With regard to what someone said about chrome...

Chrome plating frames is not a good idea. Chrome is brittle and cracks. The crack in the chrome can then lead to a crack in the frame. (Ask an engineering type about stress risers.)

Nickel plating is OK, nickel is softer and still looks OK.

[moko]

I worked in a place that did powder coating years ago,only steel though so I dont know about ally.We used to degrease it first in trichloroethylene,bloody horrible stuff that I believe is banned in Europe now.Actual coating looked good but as said there`s coating and coating,get it done cheap and you`ll get a cheap job in every respect.
As for nickel coating,Rickman used to nickel coat their frames,looked great and if polishing motorcycle frames is your thing then it`s a brilliant idea,otherwise not really practical on a road bike,more hassle than it`s worth.

[TygerTung]

I was talking to this dude at KG motorcycle services, been in the industry for 30 years, and he said he recomended painting it with bake enamal, as if you powdercoat it, afterwards if you get a chip in it, water can get under the powdercoating, and it can cause corossion, also it will cause bubbles under it too I think.

Bake enamel is hard as, and it won't matter if you get a chip in it.

[FlyingDutchMan]

I was talking to this dude at KG motorcycle services, been in the industry for 30 years, and he said he recomended painting it with bake enamal, as if you powdercoat it, afterwards if you get a chip in it, water can get under the powdercoating, and it can cause corossion, also it will cause bubbles under it too I think.

Bake enamel is hard as, and it won't matter if you get a chip in it.

I don't think its such a big issue with an ally frame - steel will rust like hell, but ally takes ages to rust that much.

[TygerTung]

That is true, you don't think it'll bubble up much?

[Suney]

Post some pics of your the progress.
Was it easy to strip the bike?

[wildcat_lgf]

At the moment its all in pieces on the garage floor, hopefully I can remember how it goes back!

I decided that I couldn't afford to pay someone to do the work for me, so have opted for the POR15 paint. I painted the frame, swing arm and rear sub-frame thingy on Monday, but one of the valves on my spray gun wasn't working properly so didn't get a glossy finish everywhere. Some places look more matt black than gloss...so I have to sand it tonight and paint it again :(

Oh well, a good learning curve,

I figure its $50 for the paint (still have 1/2 left) and so even if I have to do it, 3, 4, 5 times I'm still saving, plus I don't have go through and replace all my bearings, and its tough stuff that won't chip or crack. Also I've been wanting a bit more experience spray painting so what better chance than this?

Anyway, its pretty tough stuff! Sanding it is going to be a right royal pain! I half-hearted attempted it last night but will do it properly tonight. Like they say, preparation is the key!

I'll post some photos of the frame once its finished.
Cheers for the advice guys.


Second question...what about painting the fairings? I want to paint it Triumph Racing Yellow but I hear that is a 2-pot which is difficult to get right without a bake oven? and hard to match fairing colours?

The other option is Ducati yellow Giallo? Which I believe is just a straight base coat clear coat option?

Has anyone managed to do a good job painting their own bike or should I leave it to the pro's? The last thing I want is to end up with a bike that looks homemade!

Cheers


Post some pics of your the progress.
Was it easy to strip the bike?

[Blakamin]

you can spray 2k without an oven... It just takes a little longer to dry... which means more bugs and dust and shit...
the hardener also contains iso-cyanates... which will kill you over time... wear a respirator (no, not a paper mask)

[crashalots]

Late reply, i know! But just thought I'd ask how the powder coating/painting went? I have the exact same problem at the moment. I have talked to several people regarding the aluminum heat treatment etc, I cant get a straight answer. 7000 series alu, which refers to the additives in it, can be annealed (returned to its soft malleable state) at around 300 deg/c. Powder coating only bakes at around 200 deg. But this is not to say that there isn't hot spots on the frame that can change state, therefore rendering it useless. Its a toughy!

[pete376403]

I would have thought that, if the bake oven is set to 200 deg, then thats as hot as any part of any item in the oven is going to get, regardless of size or thickness. I'd also expect the temperature of the oven is fairly closely controlled. Where is the extra 100 deg (that will soften the alloy) is going to come from?

[Renegade]

you will find that duralloy gloss black powder coat bakes at 180 degres for 10 minutes, it shouldnt be a problem

[Renegade]

At the moment its all in pieces on the garage floor, hopefully I can remember how it goes back!

I decided that I couldn't afford to pay someone to do the work for me, so have opted for the POR15 paint. I painted the frame, swing arm and rear sub-frame thingy on Monday, but one of the valves on my spray gun wasn't working properly so didn't get a glossy finish everywhere. Some places look more matt black than gloss...so I have to sand it tonight and paint it again :(

Oh well, a good learning curve,

I figure its $50 for the paint (still have 1/2 left) and so even if I have to do it, 3, 4, 5 times I'm still saving, plus I don't have go through and replace all my bearings, and its tough stuff that won't chip or crack. Also I've been wanting a bit more experience spray painting so what better chance than this?

Anyway, its pretty tough stuff! Sanding it is going to be a right royal pain! I half-hearted attempted it last night but will do it properly tonight. Like they say, preparation is the key!

I'll post some photos of the frame once its finished.
Cheers for the advice guys.


Second question...what about painting the fairings? I want to paint it Triumph Racing Yellow but I hear that is a 2-pot which is difficult to get right without a bake oven? and hard to match fairing colours?

The other option is Ducati yellow Giallo? Which I believe is just a straight base coat clear coat option?

Has anyone managed to do a good job painting their own bike or should I leave it to the pro's? The last thing I want is to end up with a bike that looks homemade!

Cheers

i hope you had it blasted first to give the por15 a base to key to, i beleive that if you hit your frame with a hammer it will chip and it shouldnt.

you may have compromised your coating and there is only onw way to find out :bash:

[rudolph]

I got a frame done when I was 15, they dipped it is caustic soda or something, I put the bike together and the frame round all the joints went fizzy and white and the paint flaked off and it did it at every joint and seam :crybaby:

[RiderInBlack]

Don't get Brake Cleaner on it:doh: Stripped the clear coat and attacked the power coat on my rear rim:argh:

[crashalots]

I would have thought that, if the bake oven is set to 200 deg, then thats as hot as any part of any item in the oven is going to get, regardless of size or thickness. I'd also expect the temperature of the oven is fairly closely controlled. Where is the extra 100 deg (that will soften the alloy) is going to come from?

The extra heat? Well think about it. Does the element in your oven glow at the exact temperature that the dial is set to? No. It burns much hotter to account for thermal losses so that the average temp in the oven is equal to the set temp. This means that anything closer to the heating point is going to be hotter than the average. Also Aluminium is has very high thermal conductivity so it soaks it up. Sharp edges and protruding portions are going to draw the heat easier and have a possibility of being slightly hotter. But as you say, the temp of the oven should be closely controlled, but I guess this would depend on the quality of the facilities? Still seems risky