Exemptions to the helmet law

[SpankMe]

It’s now twice I’ve seen some guy riding a bike near my place wearing a turban instead of a helmet. I don’t know if our country has exemptions to the helmet law, but I certainly don’t think they should, I don’t care what believes they have. If the law says you have to wear a helmet and you don’t want to, then you don’t ride a bike.

Also laws should not be based on religion and definitely should not give preference to one religion over another or non-believers.

Helmet laws are there to protect riders from head injuries and help cut the cost of health in this country.

Wearing a turban does not protect you from head injury and the government should not be paying (with our tax money) to pay for medical costs of fixing a head injury if someone chooses not to wear a helmet.

If the government thinks its ok for some people not to wear helmets, then none of us should have to. I believe wearing helmets for motorbikes and cycles should be a matter of choice.

[Antallica]

What was he riding? I could see that happening a lot on Cruiser styles, don't some gangs in NZ wear those headband things?

My helmet sure can save me from a lot of shit, but damn my neck is sore atm! :angry2:

[Lou Girardin]

If he's a Sikh, he'll have an exemption, but he'll also have a speed restriction.
It comes back to the personal responsibility thing though. I wear a helmet, and seat belt when in a cage. But why should I force other people to. If someone wants to kill himself, why should some pious prats in Government repress all of us in order to stop him.
Lou

[bluninja]

The asinine laws in the UK allow sikhs to ride a scooter of limited cc without a helmet...strangely the jockey club stuck to it's guns and a sikh professional jockey worked to get a helmet that would allow him to conform to his religous beliefs AND the safety rules governing his chosen profession.

I personally believe that the choice of use for all personal safety devices should lie with the adult driving/riding. The government should set the standard for protection and ensure that safety equipment is provided by the manufacturers. Of course they also have to accept the consequences of their actions (or inactions)....lower ACC/insurance payouts for injury....higher premiums.....invalid insurance if not using safety gear.

TTFN

[Sharkey]

Bluninja - does your motto of Believe Nothing Test Everything, combined with your comments above about helmets mean that you don't believe helmets are useful, or have you tested this? :D

[Motu]

I think it should be compulsory for certain segments of our population to wear turbans when riding a motorcycle,also skull caps ,hoodies and baseball caps on backwards.These persons should also never be allowd to ride anything less then 750cc - stoppies at all intersections manditory.

[Coldkiwi]

hehe, Blu is one of our more experienced helmet testers actually Sharkey!

[bikerboy]

Spank is right. The public provides the care so has the right to expect action to reduce harm. You can't have some opt out as blu suggests as eventually one of these will be hurt beyond their ability to pay and society will have to pick up the bill.

We all know no one is going to allow these people to lie in the street bleeding to death, and it would be too expensive for these people to pay an extra fee to cover their increased risk. Systems like NZ's only work when costs are spread over the widest number of people.

[What?]

Originally posted by SpankMe
Also laws should not be based on religion and definitely should not give preference to one religion over another or non-believers. 

Unfortunately, most of out statutes are based on religious belief.:(:gob::angry2::eek::argh::beer:

[Racey Rider]

I'm for compulsory motorbike helmits. Just makes sence to me.
But I'm Really Against compulsory bicycle helmits.
Sure they may be a good idea, but where should the line be drawn in removing my freedom of choice? When we can't even ride a bicycle and have the wind blowing through our hair, (those of us that still have hair to be blowen that is!), because those that think they know best, have remove the RISK out of our lives,,,,
So at 16 we are legally allowed to have sex with whomever we please,, and the use of a condom is still just suggested as a good thing too do,,, but no matter what your age, getting exercise in the fresh air on a bicycle, with NO Helmit on is Ticketable offence!! :bash:

I suggest that the sex issue is far more taxing on the state than bicycle/head injury accidents. But that's getting away from the main topic, so let's not go there.
Just wanted to say somthing and out that came! :whocares:

[SpankMe]

Originally posted by Antallica
What was he riding?

It was a sport bike of some type. I only saw the back of it.

[twistymover]

We should all become Sihks, then we could ride round without a helmet. The going might be a bit slow, but the turban should be nice and warm.
Many people have strong religious customs and/or beliefs, and I think that giving them some acceptance and understanding about their custom (in this case, the turban) and allowing them to wear it (with speed restrictions ), will maybe increase others chances of gaining exceptions for themselves in other ways, perhaps to do with motorcycles. What comes around,goes around?

[750Y]

at least he was smart enough to pre bandage his head for when he headbutts the footpath.

[Big Dog]

Originally posted by Racey Rider
I'm for compulsory motorbike helmits. Just makes sence to me.
But I'm Really Against compulsory bicycle helmits.


I would not like to be the parent who had to hear their kid faces a life of challenges because I let them ride without one. At sixteen my life changed forever because I thought bike helmets were ugly.

I now suffer from Epilepsy, dyslexia and insomnia because of one pushbike accident on my sixteenth birthday. So my kids are not allowed to ride or skate without a helmet.

Still I'm fairly lucky I'm still alive with no visible damage, authorised to ride or drive (seven classes of license), and still with a IQ of 136.

Some days it doesn't feel that way a lot of employment opportunities vanish, insurance is murder and I have to read & reread any of these posts that are misspelt.

Helmet laws exist because people are inherently stupid, take cigarettes, they are known to be toxic 104 known toxins 1000 chemicals known to be carcenigens and up to 2000 chemicals in an average cigarette according to ash yet I still smoke.

Helmet laws don't exist to stop people dying, they exist to stop people becoming vegetables.

My boy once tried to tell me he did not need a helmet.
I gave him a potatoe and told him to talk to it for a while.
Being 5 he looked blankly.
I told him that I wanted him to love me back and a I needed him to be more coherent than the potatoe for that and explained about my head injuries.
Now he wears his helmet whenever he rides and tells other kids that hassle him he wants to be just like dad and get a motorbike.

Some of you may disagree..... but your adults you are able to make an informed decision based on the 18 years + of experience and information availible to you. Thats why you are allowed to vote.

Its also why your kids can't

And that was my soapbox moment for today.:done:

[scumdog]

:rockon:
Big Dog, you said it all man, too many people think "it won't happen to me" especially the younger ones (I guess that's why they join up when there is a war on).
You can educate people as much as you want but a certain amount are going to bite the dust whatever laws are around - and for some it won't be their fault, so with our crappy roads and crappier drivers a helmet makes sense.
In the States with open one-way highways with no intersections them I can see a case for "helmets optional" but not here, even on push-bikes.
You don't want to wear a helmet? then YOU organise your own injury insurance - and see how far you get!! what I'm trying to say I guess is that freedom is o.k. but someone has to pay - and I don't want to pay for someone else to be on a life-support needlessly.
It's about 5 hours past my bedtime so I better stop my raving before it makes even less sense!!!!
P.S., there is a certain amount of the population would piss on an electric fence more than once, they are the type that get the restrictive law brought in to protect them from themselve - and we all suffer.

[SPman]

Big Dog - good post man. Helmets are for people who think of consequences and want to minimise risk. Most kids cann't think of consequences (lack of life experience?) and respond well to personal advice and example. Adults?..........well...............?

I noticed my sister, bro in law, mates and kids were wearing helmets up the mountain now for snowboarding. - experience minimising risk. The wind around your head is great, right up to the moment it hits a rock!

 

[Lou Girardin]

Racy Rider, how can you be for one and against t'other. Bit of a contradiction.
Isn't it significant that most of the support for helmet laws is to reduce COST to us. What's personal freedom worth, now that we have so little.
Lou

[Sharkey]

Respect, Big Dog.

That was spot on.

[Marmoot]

I was just thinking, that if they make 5-points seatbelt, thick jacket, and helmet compulsory in cars then the fatality rate, ACC levies, and road-toll will surely go down SIGNIFICANTLY, don't you agree?


P.S.
I love that potatoe talk, BD. I'll use it to my kids someday, if you don't mind. :niceone:

[scumdog]

Marmoot, you are correct (I guess you are not being sarcastic??) but making the wearing of padded jacket, helmets etc for cage drivers compulsory would be stepping over that invisible line of what people will tolerate.
There gets to a point where the majority wil say "whoa, too much" to any rule, - even if it means the survival of some of them. (the old "won't happen to me" syndrome).
Plus the fuzz have enough problems enforcing what laws we have in place already.
By the way, the Govt. is not totally concerned about you survival on the road for YOUR sake, they don't want to part with cash for preventable injuries (I wonder how rugby get away with it?) plus they have a figure of how much money earned/taxes paid if you don't embed youself into the grille of a logging truck at an early age. Glad to cheer you all up!!:niceone:

[Racey Rider]

But there must be some level of acceptable risk. Yes, people do fall of bicycles and cause head trama. But what %age of all bicycle riders is that? I fell sorry for those that have been injured in this way, but those are the risks we take when we wish to do something enjoyable. Who knows, it might be ME tomorrow, but thats the risk I take by walking out the door into the world. Life Sucks like that somtimes. But life also sucks when bacis freedoms like riding a bicycle with out a helmit can't be enjoyed because "It's too risky"!
Re: paying for the care/recovery from that accident. I would be happier paying taxes towards that, than care of Drunk drivers and the like. So what should be done?? Make it illgeal for anyone to drive a car anywhere??? Because it's safer for everyone to use public transport 100% of the time! No! us driving our cars/bikes is acceptable risk!
I am for one and not the other because of MY opinion of acceptable risk! That is the "Line" we talk about, and there will be a range of opinion where that line should be. I encorage debate, not just those who shout the loudist, setting the law for all.
I am a loveing parent and when my children start riding bicycles I will inforce a rule that they must wear a helmit. But by some stage, (14-16 maybe?), I will have allowed them to choose to do so or not. As they grow and learn about life and it's struggles/consequences, they will be in a better poistion to choose between saftey & Freedom.

Bound to have more to say yet!! :D

[aff-man]

Well i think helmets should be compulsary for all no exceptions sure religion and belief structures are there and have to be respected but think about the trouble you could get into without a helmet.

Imagine .... going for a ride without a helmet the wind in your hair going between 50 and 100kph and all of a sudden a large cycada(don't know spelling) or even worse stone/rock. hits you in the head. Now the cycada would hurt like hell and probably cause some damage but the stone could and probably will maim, harm and even kill you. Now you without a helmet are aware of the risks and should this happen you are prepared for the consiquences (even if you thik it will not happen to you). But what about john doe's small child who ,when you were  hit by an object and lost control of your bike, got taken out without even seeing it coming :(.......just imagine

[andy1]

yea i seen some guy riding in the city with no helment on! about 4 times! and seen him been pulled over once and they let him go! its a cbr 250! he's only a CITY SLICKER! gotta look cool for the ladies. :cool:

P.S How the fuck do i change that scooter boy shit under my name!

[Motoracer]

Originally posted by andy1
P.S How the fuck do i change that scooter boy shit under my name!


This was originaly posted by blueninja:

The user titles work like so:





L-Plate Rider (Minimum Posts: 0)

Scooter boy (Minimum Posts: 30)

Moped rider (Minimum Posts: 60)

Fair weather rider (Minimum Posts: 90)

Weekend cruiser (Minimum Posts: 120)

Highway Biker (Minimum Posts: 150)

Hardcore Biker (Minimum Posts: 200)

[Coldkiwi]

wise words big dog. nice to see life lessons being passed on to those without the same experience.

aout that sikh bloke... what about a helmet with a turban on the outside?? Maybe a full face would be a bit much (not if you crash tho) but at least a half face helmet could be well hidden under the turban! And it would have to be a lot easier to get on and off than unwrapping the turban as usual!

[Sharkey]

In terms of the whole religious belief thing, there should not be exemptions. It's not as though anybody is forced to ride a motorcycle. If the required protective equipment would infringe upon religious beliefs, or any beliefs, then use some other form of transport! Also, riding a motorcycle is not a right in this country - it is a privilege. You don't need a licence to perform rights. Therefore noone can moan that their rights are being infringed in any way by the helmet requirement.

It would be like a Muslim or Jew saying they should have the right to eat any meat offered in a supermarket. It's bloody ridiculous. If it isn't kosher or halal, stear clear. In the same way, if helmets aren't acceptable, don't ride a bike.

The logic might be a little odd, but I know what I mean.

[Sharkey]

Or how about a kevlar turban? No there's a market!

[Sharkey]

I meant "now" there's a market.

:Oops:

[Sharkey]

One post to go.

Come on Scooter Boy........

:done:

[Big Dog]

MMM

[Big Dog]

+

[Big Dog]

+ this one = nuf said

[Kwaka-Kid]

hey great post bigdog, i reckon thats real kool...  I myself am slowly learning aobut saftey etc, and look at that, im/was A-stream student @ MRGS who never failed and exam and blah blah yadda yadda got SC and SFC scoring 2nd highest in Sixth form in both Business Studies and I.T (ok, that was my ego trip)... and after all that, i am only just realising now? it aint about intelligence, it just cant be... I even found myself out on the track today wihtout my Armadillo! i have 2 of the things and i only noticed after the 2nd session when Hoon came off and hit the armco... and i admit that still i was stoopid minded and tried turning down spankmes offer of using his (thanks spank) but had to ride the last 2-3 without...

But yeah, in all that my point was that i think we do need these laws etc because i AM intelligent (as most should be) enough to work out that it just is NOT economic enough to not wear a helmet (tickets)... and nice to see you parents caring for your kids! the only reason my dad made me ride to skool on my bicycle with a helmet on my head was because he said he wouldnt pay the fine! -being not too shabby @ simple math i managed to work out it was worth getting the cheap ass helmet as it was like cheaper then the fine (isnt it $75 fopr bicycle now?)

[twistymover]

Originally posted by Sharkey
Or how about a kevlar turban?
Great idea Sharkey!

[twistymover]

Originally posted by Big Dog
+ this one = nuf said
Good cartoon Big Dog. I think though that the man driving the car definitely also needs a helmet to protect against helmeted mozzies that crash through the windscreen. I'll write to Cornelius Fudge at The Ministry of Magic.

[bluninja]

I still believe that helmets (bicycle and motorbike) should be a matter of choice for adults to use or not use. My choice is to wear decent gloves, boots, helmet, backprotector and protective clothing with body armour at nearly all times. I have had one road traffic accident, and the gear I wore certainly saved my skin that day.

As for bicycles....I cycled through France without a helmet, my mate wore his all the time, except the last morning getting on the ferry. His front wheel slipped and he landed face first on the metal studs on the ferry deck. Fractured nose, broken teeth, and some severe lacerations on his face. I now wear a helmet on a bicycle...even though I've only managed 46mph top speed. A dude near where I lived rode in to the back of a parked car when blinded by sunstrike hit his head on the back of the car and died. It does happen. My children wear helmets...and given the state of the helmets from the number of spills in the back yard, I hate to think the number of dents and scarpes they would have on their heads.

On the track I've now had 4 spills in total. 1 had me surfing on the top of my helmet and an elbow and wore through the shell, 2 have had me on my front and cut into the chinguard. I may not be good looking, but I certainly prefer to have a chin, and a rounded cranium. On this evidence it would sugest that open face helmets should be banned, and only full faced worn compulsarily. I think in a really heavy impact with the head a helmet is more likely to cause a broken neck, and death or paralysis anyway. However for the bulk of accidents, at slwoer speeds and lower impacts they do save life and facial features.

TTFN

[Big Dog]

The reason open face helmets are still legit is because the odds of damaging the chinguard is only 1/1000, according to the Hurt report (of all the helmets totalled in accidents).

But the biggest plus has to be the lack of mozzies in my teeth.:eek:

[Kwaka-Kid]

yeah i must admit, over the few acc's ive had i had never damaged the chin piece, and usually just the top edge gets a slight gark, funny enuf ive hardly damaged a helmet in mine, always just roll... i was taught to relax and go with it prefaerably on your back for a slide... but even @ puke being thrown off (thats the fastest off ive had) i hit ground and instead of sliding i just roll, so i get up, and its like nothing is damaged?! only last time there was a rip up side of leathers, but thats just because the stitching was so old... anyways. iff so some random chicks 18th tonite, unfortunatly i have to drive my mates car coz of her R licence :( so i cant give those leathers another party-test :(    (to be honest im sure its more that i keep the helmet on so they dont see my face that first attracts them)

[Racey Rider]

Originally posted by Big Dog
..But the biggest plus has to be the lack of mozzies in my teeth.:eek:

Especially the mozzies with helmits on ha

[Big Dog]

Originally posted by Kwaka-Kid
... but even @ puke being thrown off (thats the fastest off ive had)

You spilled already?

If so better luck next time.... Where are the photo's?

If not forgive my faith in gravity over any riders skill.

[Kwaka-Kid]

nooo silly! not on my racebike! im talking about ages ago, erm, march somtime i think on hte ZXR400! heh, sheeeesh, i dont plan on dumping the VFR :) (neither of them for that matter!) despite the fact that MANY 4wheeled clowns have tried already.. i get so mad, and that just makes me so frustrated because all that anger/madness, and this crappy pip squeek body i was cursed with? sheesh, what a waste of built up agression.

here was the beast... fucking great flight tho, better then any rollercoaster! pumped some mean adreneline.

[Big Dog]

Given the nature of previous posts I'm sure you will forgive me for asking is this a before or after shot of your repairs:D

[wkid_one]

PMPL:rockon: :rockon:

[750Y]

hey kk, you didn't throw that bike at the armco coming out of castrol did you?

[Marmoot]

(sorry for taking along time to reply)

No, I wasn't being sarcastic about protections in car. In fact, sometimes I considered wearing them when I'm heading to the twisties (hunua in cage, anyone? It's fun).

By the way, does anyone know whether it is illegal or not to wear helmets in car on public roads?

[Kwaka-Kid]

no 750Y, came off Jennian homes as back tyre slipped, barrell rolled it over a few times on the grass and threw me too, heh.

[SPman]

Originally posted by Marmoot
By the way, does anyone know whether it is illegal or not to wear helmets in car on public roads?

Its not illegal as far as I know. Knew of a Surgeon in Auck. A&E who used to wear a helmet going to work in his car.....sawto many head injuries and it got to him a bit............

[MikeL]

And coming back to the original topic...

If the argument for wearing a helmet is so compelling that it is enshrined in law, what then is the justification for allowing exemptions? Either it should apply to everyone, or it should not be law. Compromising by imposing a speed restriction is ridiculous. What is the maximum speed allowed? 50 km/h? Is an unprotected head hitting the road at 50 km/h considered an acceptable risk? If a Sikh or a member of any other religious or ethnic group doesn't want to wear a helmet because it violates deeply held religious or cultural beliefs, he can simply not ride. Nobody is forcing him onto a bike. Tolerance of cultural and religious traditions is a good thing but where those traditions come into conflict with our own well-established laws and customs there should be no compromise. I seem to recall an outcry over the practice of female circumcision among African immigrants. Did we say: "Yes, we agree that this practice is of cultural significance to you, even though it is cruel and dangerous, so we'll allow you to continue to do it, as long as you leave at least half of the clitoris intact..." ??

[wkid_one]

Originally posted by Kwaka-Kid
no 750Y, came off Jennian homes as back tyre slipped, barrell rolled it over a few times on the grass and threw me too, heh.

No KK - the tire rolled off its motorway grooves and on to the chicken strips on the side and fell in - and you stood the bike up......

Remember I saw the tyres - there was a bloody ridge 1.5inches from the edge of the tyre - LOL



 

[wkid_one]

PS - you been practising GP enuf to risk another whooping KK?

[Jackrat]

As far as people wearing a turban go,s great as long as they don,t get ACC cover that I pay tax,es for I don,t care.As in fuck em,.That go,s for gang members as well,Fuck em, let them die.
I used to wear open faces a lot years ago,,then for no reason other than comfort I got me a nice full face.About three weeks later I had my second big get off in years of riding.I became one of those 1 in 1 thosand mentioned in an earlier reply.Glass worn to the foam from chin to ear,back of lid smashed in. :gob: The law don,t mean as much as my wish to keep my face
so I now wear a full face always.While I pay tax to ACC nobody should be riding any thing with out a helmet.Most people who die in cars die from head injurys so maybe them to,,definatly when I,m out an about in my 4x4(Sorry officer I did,nt see the car ): :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Hey It works for them if I,m on me bike,Right.
Jack.

[Kwaka-Kid]

nah sorry wkid, aint touched it scince i got whooped by you.

and exactly, that tyre had the biggest strips.. and i went down down down lower lower lower SLIDE a little on back tyre... then borught back upright and took onto grass and barrell rolled... ? anywas what diff did that make?  thats what i said only in not so many words isnt it?!

[What?]

Originally posted by Jackrat
As far as people wearing a turban go,s great as long as they don,t get ACC cover 

Too bloody right. In fact, I'd like to see ACC got rid of, coz I don't see why my bike rego should pay to fix up rugby league players...:angry2::angry2::angry2:

[Coldkiwi]

I agree with these sentiments. If you don't want to do what you can to minimise injuries, no one else should have to do their part to minimise your costs when you're in intensive care. Of course, that would inevitably mean some irresponsible bloke will have a nasty off, not have enough money to look after himself and then it just gets unpleasant for his family etc etc.... so instead, how about this:

 

1) wear a helmet, pay your levy and get covered by ACC

2) don't have to wear a helmet, don't pay ACC levy but you must have $100,000 paid as a bond to get your licence so you CAN pay for your own medical bills

 

[bluninja]

CK the problem with this is not about what's right or wrong, but what's practical. If someone chooses not to wear a helmet how will plod (or anyone else) know if they have insurance/bond/waiver in case of injury.

I would like people all to have a choice as to the level of protection they use when riding, but I also realise that in the real world this is not practical where helmets is concerned....though I can ride a bike wearing nothing but an open face helmet and a pair of shorts.....and if I come off it's going to cost loads in medical care...even though my head is intact. Maybe leathers, gloves, boots, and a back protector should be compulsory too.:cool:

 

TTFN

[Lou Girardin]

Gee! Maybe we shouldn't be allowed to ride motorcycles at all. After all, they're so dangerous. Everyone knows that and ACC even charges us more too!:rolleyes:
When sports people pay a surcharge for all their injuries that we have to pay for, then I'll support compulsory everything.
Lou

[Coldkiwi]

It would be easy to police, just have a different licence or a "H" plate! (ok, I see your point)

good call Lou... most would consider it irresponsible to NOT minimise the risks as much as practical when riding a bike (err.. .excluding the way some of us go fanging in the w/e?) but there's very few precautions taken in all the other non-registered sports that generate injuries and bills its grating to have to spend so much time debating these apparently minor points. not that I think they're minor... I would be a vege if I my parents hadn't made me wear a bicycle helmet when I cycled to school in Hawaii (non-compulsory helmets). I crashed for some unknown reason one day and completely destroyed the side of my helmet against the curb. Sobering experience. It put all the grief other kids gave me for wearing one into sharp contrast!

 

[What?]

Originally posted by Coldkiwi
when I cycled to school in Hawaii (non-compulsory helmets). I crashed for some unknown reason one day

Tired, probably. It is a long way from Howick to Hawaii.:D

Drifting off topic a little here, but ACC is one of those things that just keeps on poking it's ugly head up! Remember the case of the guy who got a lump sum from ACC when he broke his leg during a prison escape attempt? Now, where do you think the money came from - prisoner's ACC levies??:angry2::angry2::angry2::angry2::angry2::a ngry2::angry2::angry2::angry2:

[aff-man]

Just saw about 30  harley riders going the other way down the motorway without helmets anf feck-all gear. About 7km down the road see a police car giving it balls trying to catch up. heheheh. These really doesn't improve the not very clever harley rider thoery :Oops:  but are the protesting something or just being wankers????. Still it would be funny to see a single police vehicle trying to pull over 30 hard-ass harley guys:done:

[MikeL]

Originally posted by aff-man
Just saw about 30  harley riders going the other way down the motorway without helmets anf feck-all gear.

Would they be the bros. getting ready for their murdered leader's funeral today??

[toads]

I think it should be compulsory for certain segments of our population to wear turbans when riding a motorcycle,also skull caps ,hoodies and baseball caps on backwards.These persons should also never be allowd to ride anything less then 750cc - stoppies at all intersections manditory.

I couldn't agree more, it would solve some of the congestion issues in our prisons too, come to think of it, it could be appropriate for some politicians too

[SPman]

I couldn't agree more, it would solve some of the congestion issues in our prisons too, come to think of it, it could be appropriate for some politicians too The mental picture of Helen doing a stoppie on a Gixxer outside parliament is .......................interesting :laugh:

[FzerozeroT]

not 100% on this, but the turban is not religious in itself:

Sikh are warriors and were told that they should train for fighting so much that they would not have time to cut their hair or shave, the turban is just the easiest way to hold their hair out of the way and be a primitive helmet for battle. Also the top of the head is covered for respect to people and gods. A helmet should serve all these purposes too.

Am I wrong? there must be at least one person on this site who knows for sure

[FzerozeroT]

plenty of people in india wear helmets, some of them must have been sikh

[Zed]

not 100% on this, but the turban is not religious in itself:

Sikh are warriors and were told that they should train for fighting so much that they would not have time to cut their hair or shave, the turban is just the easiest way to hold their hair out of the way and be a primitive helmet for battle. Also the top of the head is covered for respect to people and gods. A helmet should serve all these purposes too.

Am I wrong? there must be at least one person on this site who knows for sure
"Off with their heads" I say! :Oi:

Zed

[Big Dog]

"Off with their heads" I say! :Oi:

Zed
"Kill em all let god sort 'em out!" You reckon?

:ar15:

[moko]

We should all become Sihks, then we could ride round without a helmet.


Guy did that in the U.K.,rode a Bonneville while wearing a turban,was in a lot of the media because it was when the general public became aware of the exception made for Sikhs,typically for this country it was sneaked through.Guy said he`d sue the police for discrimination if they pulled him,dont know the end result because he was famous for the provebial 15 minutes.Dont know about now but they used to be able to carry knives as well because it was apparently part of their religion.Most of our "anti-discrimination" laws are well-meaning but mis-guided and have done more to keep the state of race-relations in this country in the state they are than anything else.Places like Bradford and Burnley have "White" areas and "Asian" areas with frequent clashes and the local refugee hostel here was virtually under siege shortly before it closed down a couple of years ago,from the way they behaved here no wonder they were "opressed" where they came from,people had enough and they all disappeared literally over-night before yet another confrontation made the headlines.

[RiderInBlack]

The only time I've ridden the bike without a helmet is going from a church in Wihi to the Wihi Cemetry as part of a Funeral for a Daugther of my bike club members. I felt really uneazy about it, but caved-in as I didn't want to be the only one wearing one.

[wkid_one]

The only time I've ridden the bike without a helmet is going from a church in Wihi to the Wihi Cemetry as part of a Funeral for a Daugther of my bike club members. I felt really uneazy about it, but caved-in as I didn't want to be the only one wearing one.
Does everyone else see the irony in that post?

[RiderInBlack]

Does everyone else see the irony in that post?I did at the time, WKid, but caved in to peer-pressure. By the way the Daughter had died of cancer (not a vehicle accident).

You can't tell me that you haven't riden without a helmet at lease once, WKid :Pokey:Oh, and you have never wanked ether, sorry my appligies :not:

[Skyryder]

At the risk of sounding trite I am for compulsory everything. Why should the indavidual have choice???

Skyryder

[wkid_one]

I did at the time, WKid, but caved in to peer-pressure. By the way the Daughter had died of cancer (not a vehicle accident).

You can't tell me that you haven't riden without a helmet at lease once, WKid :Pokey:Oh, and you have never wanked ether, sorry my appligies :not: Never said I hadn't done either :bash: :bash: :bash:

Mind you - only if you count riding down the end of the driveway riding without a helmet.

Get over yourself and stop taking yourself so seriously....It was a tongue in cheek post. :banana: :banana:

[FROSTY]

Waaay back it used to be easy to get temp helmet exemptions from the cops or your doctor.If your lid got stolen from your bike you could get a exemption to ride home without one.
I was lucky enough to go on the last toy run where we could ride with no lids.
Dangerous --sure was fun--OHH YEA

[RiderInBlack]

Never said I hadn't done either :bash: :bash: :bash:

Mind you - only if you count riding down the end of the driveway riding without a helmet.

Get over yourself and stop taking yourself so seriously....It was a tongue in cheek post. :banana: :banana:
Mind you don't bite you tongue :msn-wink: I give as good as I get:done:

[Kickaha]

One of the two fines I have had was for riding without a helmet,but that was a considrable time ago.

Being from a country area it wasn't uncommon to ride without a helmet,round the back roads on trailbikes,a considerable number of years later and a lot of miles I now feel uncomfortable riding down the driveway without one.

Either exempt everyone or exempt no one,but those that crash without one can pay for their own hospital care.

[Holy Roller]

I now feel uncomfortable riding down the driveway without one.


It's surprising how quickly one gets used to wearing no helmet. :innocent:
A couple of seasons ago when I was milking, no helmet was worn, it was our choice if we wanted to wear one. I'm sure OSH is trying to change that :bye:
Used to ride down state 30 regularly to get the cows, never got stopped by the cops passing through, but stopped them as the cows crossed the road :Police: :killingme

[Lou Girardin]

There used to be an exemption for farm bikers, 30km/h limit though.

[RiderInBlack]

OSH would like farmers to wear helmets even on the quads. The only farmers I've seen do this are the ones working for Landcorp.

[pete376403]

IIRC the death by accident rate for farmers is about 1 per week (all type of farm accidents, not just bikes /quads). Anything that OSH can do to reduce this is probably a good thing

[KATWYN]

Brains are a better look inside the head where they belong,
not outside on the road.

I don't know why some people think its unfair and that the
turban wearer is better off for being "allowed" to not wear a helmet.

And as far as someone having to pay and being a drain on hospital
resources- something tells me no helmet and a sport bike would
be fairly final and would end at the accident.

[cruzer]

Coming down the southern Motorway doing about 100KMS 2 wheels and a sidecar. The Driver and Pillion both with helmets and the two kids in the sidecar no helmet.
It made me rather curious as I would have though that it was compulsory to wear helmets in a sidecar, otherwise, why would it be a requirement for helmets for the rider.
The amazing thing was that just as I was wondering whether it was legal or not a Highway Patrol Cop went pass and did nothing, I guess it,s legal??

[Eurodave]

The law has changed so a helmet in a sidecar is now compulsary :yes:

[Fluffy Cat]

Yeah well i've just done the 10 millonth non helmet wearing sikh at Auck hosp OR today you are right the 0.00000001% of the pop are a drain on resources...Then again we do see a lot of rugby players hmmm.

[Brian d marge]

It's surprising how quickly one gets used to wearing no helmet. :innocent:
A couple of seasons ago when I was milking, no helmet was worn, it was our choice if we wanted to wear one. I'm sure OSH is trying to change that :bye:
Used to ride down state 30 regularly to get the cows, never got stopped by the cops passing through, but stopped them as the cows crossed the road :Police: :killingme

I was a bike Mechanic in Greece for a couple of years, small island ,,Never wore helmets ...
Arrived back in London, jumped on bike, had driven into the city ( about 10 k ) before it dawned on me I should have been wearing a helmet ,,
No police and no other m/c .....to remind me :doh:

I Always now wear Gloves , boots and helmet (MIN requirements ) as its easier to keep a naked arse off the road .......

[Wolf]

not 100% on this, but the turban is not religious in itself:

Sikh are warriors and were told that they should train for fighting so much that they would not have time to cut their hair or shave, the turban is just the easiest way to hold their hair out of the way and be a primitive helmet for battle. Also the top of the head is covered for respect to people and gods. A helmet should serve all these purposes too.

Am I wrong? there must be at least one person on this site who knows for sure
I have a large number of Sikh friends and my understanding is that they can get dispensation from their priests to allow them to cut their hair for work-purposes, etc. A friend of mine is a very devout Sikh yet his hair is short as he works in the IRD and "has to look presentable". I also went to school with a few Sikhs who had their hair cut short (even though other Sikhs at the same school wore turbans).

Being a Sikh does not mean they have to have long hair wrapped up in a turban. They can opt to have short hair if work or other choices they make (including riding motorcycles) would require it.

I was given to understand that it's not a major issue - it's not like they go to some equivalent of "Hell" for cutting their hair.

[Ixion]

I have a large number of Sikh friends and my understanding is that they can get dispensation from their priests to allow them to cut their hair for work-purposes, etc. A friend of mine is a very devout Sikh yet his hair is short as he works in the IRD and "has to look presentable". I also went to school with a few Sikhs who had their hair cut short (even though other Sikhs at the same school wore turbans).

Being a Sikh does not mean they have to have long hair wrapped up in a turban. They can opt to have short hair if work or other choices they make (including riding motorcycles) would require it.

I was given to understand that it's not a major issue - it's not like they go to some equivalent of "Hell" for cutting their hair.

That is also my understanding . Guru Govind Singh, who founded the Khalsa told Sikhs to wear five symbols of their faith (the 5 K's):

Kesh (long fair worn in a knot), Kangha (a comb), Kirpan (sword), Kara (a steel bangle) and Kaccha (shorts).

In modern society, some of these have had to be put to one side (eg the sword) or worn only in a symbolic form (some Sikhs wear a little sword "amulet"). The long hair worn in top knot can be treated the same way.

It is not a "do this or go to hell" thing, but rather a "do this to show that you are proud of your faith".

As far as I know there is no RELIGIOUS requirement to wear a turban (for any Indian religion) . Just the long hair, which could perfectly well fit into a crash helmet. The turban is a social construct. In much the same way as, when I was a lad, no self respecting woman would have gone out in public without a hat or shawl covering her head. Any woman who did would have been taken for a prostitute. No law, civil or religious. Just one of those "All decent people do it " things.

The above is my understanding and may well be imperfect. Correction is welcomed.

[bgd]

On a cycle (that's with pedals) site over here the way to start a war is bring up the helmet debate. It's the usual arguments that we've all heard but what I find interesting are the stats that get quoted. Significantly more head injuries are suffered by car passengers and pedestrians than cyclists. So the argument goes that why aren't these two groups targeted ahead of cyclists. Cycle helmets are not compulsory over here.

As for me, I'm very happy with compulsory motorcycle and voluntary cycle helmet rules. I usually wear a cycle helmet.

[Gremlin]

Having hit a parked car (shuddup, it was 7 years ago, and I was younger) at about 40-50km/h, and destroying the helmet, I reckon its the same as motorcycles.

You can always buy another helmet, but you only have one head. Accidents happen, and its no good wishing you had worn one. :yes: