A serious question for the more experienced riders amongst you.

[Sky-hi]

DO you think a 1000cc bike is "too much" for someone as their first "big" bike (ie, first bike on a full license)

I know it would depend partly on the attitude of the rider and where and how they ride etc. but in general terms? For a sensible rider that's been riding for a fair few years and just gotten around to getting a full. Not a child either, over 30 years of age that values their life over impressing other motorists.

to use for a daily auckland commute as well as longer weekend rides.

[Hitcher]

Another "how long is a piece of string" thread.

If you want a litre bike, buy one. It's your arse that will be getting carried to and fro on it. Go test riding, if you can find dealers with demos...

[Tank]

As you say - it depends on the rider more than the bike.

I moved to a 1000cc V-Strom (not the fastest in the world - but faster than a GN250) within a year of starting riding (had a licence exemption).

So far no problems at all.

[Sky-hi]

Another "how long is a piece of string" thread.

Fair call. Thanks for your advice.

[bsasuper]

I went from a 125 trail to a Gpz900r, never did me any harm.

[Matt Bleck]

Another "how long is a piece of string" thread.

If you want a litre bike, buy one. It's your arse that will be getting carried to and fro on it. Go test riding, if you can find dealers with demos...
twice half it's length?

[Maha]

Another "how long is a piece of string" thread.



That would be the measured distance between the begining of said piece of string and the end of said piece of string.

To answer the question...I would say yes, I have seen a guy go from a GN250 to a GSXR750 and it didn't make good viewing. He went back to GSR600.

[breakaway]

DO you think a 1000cc bike is "too much" for someone as their first "big" bike (ie, first bike on a full license)

I know it would depend partly on the attitude of the rider and where and how they ride etc. but in general terms? For a sensible rider that's been riding for a fair few years and just gotten around to getting a full. Not a child either, over 30 years of age that values their life over impressing other motorists.

to use for a daily auckland commute as well as longer weekend rides.

That depends. What kind of 1000cc bike? There's a huge difference between a GSXR1000 and a V-Storm (as stated by Tank a few posts above).

If it's the former then make sure stuff like this doesn't happen to you:

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VERY easy to do on a bike with ~140 RWHP.

[jrandom]

I went from an FZX250 Zeal to a GSX-R750, highsided three weeks after I got the 750, and now my left hand is held together with titanium screws. I just wasn't used to what happens when 100hp tries to grab the ground through a motorcycle tyre sized contact patch in the rain.

That said, if you get a four-cylinder 1000cc sportbike, tiptoe around carefully and respect the machine, and get your arse to plenty of trackdays (http://www.motott.co.nz/) ASAP to develop and hone your control skills in a safe environment, I think you'll have every chance of a long and safe motorcycling career.

After all, it's quite possible to kill oneself very efficiently with less than half the horsepower. Look at that cruiser rider who died in a head-on bike vs bike crash near Mangakino on the weekend. I bet he and his missus bought their bike because they thought it was relatively 'safe'. As did the cruiser rider who crossed the centerline and hit them.

But then the shit still hit the fan, and someone outrode himself and caused a tragedy.

It's not the bike, it's the rider.

Buy your thou and be happy. But learn to ride it.

[madbikeboy]

I wouldn't.

Work up to the edge.

The step between a 250 and a 600 is a big one. Between a 250 and a thou is bigger. Much, much bigger.

Sense and sensibility aside, it's the moments where a smaller capacity bike will flatter you where the thou will likely expose you.

Here's a thought for you - most people go faster on a sports 600 than they can on a thou, and I'm one of them (and I own 2x thous).

Buy a nice SV650. Or a GSXR600. Or a Hornet 600.

Just watching those vids proves my point. When shit happens, it really happens on a thou. Imagine this scenario, riding through a corner I ride every day, a patch of diesel - leaned over, rolling into the throttle, back wheel starts to let go - what do you do? Do you have the experience to go against your natural instinct? Do you have the time in the saddle to feel the warning signs - you have about .2 of second to correct it on the gas on a thou. - So, what do you do?

[cowboyz]

wouldnt think there would be much difference between a 600 and a 750.

It really does depend on your mindset. Saw a brand new gsxr600 show up on a fri night ride a little while ago and was really impressed to see the guy ride it with his ego in check looking after it. If your gonna jump on a thou and ride it near the redline then there will be trouble.

Other thing to concider is thous are a real PITA to commute on in town.

[Sky-hi]

all very very good advice guys, thanks very much. I was tossing up an aprilia RSV mille. just love the look and the italianess of it all. but yes, it's all about respecting the power.

Is a V-Twin with it's torque "easier" to ride in traffic than a 4 cylinder do you think?

[jim.cox]

Is a V-Twin with it's torque "easier" to ride in traffic than a 4 cylinder do you think?

Yes

But I wouldn't use an RSV Mille for a commute scoot

[Big Dave]

Since you asked - I say don't do it.

You may be 'a natural' and a gifted rider from the get go. But then you possibly wouldn't be asking the question if that was the case. You'd know.

Go from a 250 to a mid horsepower machine.

A SV650, A Bonneville, A Versys, a XT660 - whatever.

When a lot of us that have been riding for a long time graduated to superbikes they had 90 horsepower and our experience base grew with the power outputs over the years.

Give yourself the same opportunity. Even if it's only for 6 or 12 months.

[Sky-hi]

When a lot of us that have been riding for a long time graduated to superbikes they had 90 horsepower and our experience base grew with the power outputs over the years.

Another excellent comment. as for "knowing" rather than asking. All I was after was opinion. Ultimately I will be making up my own mind. But having not ridden a thou yet, I thought it might be pertinent to get some experienced advice rather than rely on my own thoughts on the matter.

[MaxB]

This thread comes up a fair bit. The search function should get you some more answers.

Why not have a test ride on a few of your choices? You may find your favourite Italian scoot is too hard edged for what you want.

[Mom]

Go ride some bikes is my advice, you may be surprised at what you end up with.

[Sky-hi]

When shit happens, it really happens on a thou. Imagine this scenario, riding through a corner I ride every day, a patch of diesel - leaned over, rolling into the throttle, back wheel starts to let go - what do you do? Do you have the experience to go against your natural instinct? Do you have the time in the saddle to feel the warning signs - you have about .2 of second to correct it on the gas on a thou. - So, what do you do?

exactly what I wanted to hear. thanks for your input.

[Big Dave]

Another excellent comment. as for "knowing" rather than asking. All I was after was opinion. Ultimately I will be making up my own mind. But having not ridden a thou yet, I thought it might be pertinent to get some experienced advice rather than rely on my own thoughts on the matter.

Indeed - I meant it from the 'driven to do it' angle.

[cowboyz]

Another excellent comment. as for "knowing" rather than asking. All I was after was opinion. Ultimately I will be making up my own mind. But having not ridden a thou yet, I thought it might be pertinent to get some experienced advice rather than rely on my own thoughts on the matter.


Go ride some bikes is my advice, you may be surprised at what you end up with.

yep. Take a shop thou out for a run. Then if you break it at least it wasnt yours. The excess on most demos are under what real insurance usually is and it doesnt technically fuck up your personal insurance record for the future.

Win win situation.

[Sky-hi]

This thread comes up a fair bit. The search function should get you some more answers.

I did try... I searched "upgrade from" "up from 250". things like that, to no avail.

[Filter_nz]

I was in that situation only a year ago.
26, Married, nothing to prove. I just wanted to skip the middle-bike step.

I went from a Hyosung GT250r to a Honda VTR 1000.
I just took it easy until I was used to it. Loved it!!

That said, if you want to commute on it I personally think a 1k bike is a waste of time. 200km to a tank and you'll never use 5th or 6th.
V-twin 1000cc bikes seem to be more predictable in the way they deliver power and so a more friendly step up than say a 4cly bike like a GSXR.

[slofox]

I'd go for the less savage option....in fact I did just that when returning to riding after a 20 year gap...still have yet to completely master 650cc....V Twin at that. And yes, v twins are OK to communt on...
Oh and 60 - 65mpg as well....

[cowboyz]

That said, if you want to commute on it I personally think a 1k bike is a waste of time. 200km to a tank and you'll never use 5th or 6th.
.



5th or 6th? I have trouble getting out of 1st or 2nd in town. I really dislike riding my bike round town. It is just annoying.

In saying that it is my daily commuter which is 14km open road riding, 600m in town riding.

[Sully60]

Is a V-Twin with it's torque "easier" to ride in traffic than a 4 cylinder do you think?

I would say no, most modern four cylinder bikes of bigger capacity will happily bumble along at low revs and usually have a wider spread of usable power than a twin of equal capacity.
A twin will have more torque yes but at low revs/speed this can hard to apply without being snatchy (the bangs get pretty far apart and you feel it) and you'll end up riding the clutch more often , where as a four might not pull so hard but will run smoother for longer (lots of little bangs in close succession) and your left hand will generally have an easier time of it.

So as others have said go test ride, only you know what's going to right for you.
Just make sure you try to include as much as style the riding you'll be doing in your test ride.

[sinfull]

Do what ya want, ya will anyway lol but ya keep talking commuter ?
Is your 2 fity a bit slow, are you a carver wanna be ?

[Sky-hi]

Do what ya want, ya will anyway lol but ya keep talking commuter ?
Is your 2 fity a bit slow, are you a carver wanna be ?

yes, I commute every single day to and from work through auckland traffic so it's commutability is an issue.

Definately not a wannabe anything, just a bigger guy that wants some speed in sensible situations, something larger for roadtrips without ringing the shit out of the bike and something for the occasional trackday.

[nodrog]

after riding a 250 for 8 months, then a 7 year period of not even owning a motorcycle, i brought a 996, i didnt die much.

[jrandom]

I had a real 'waaaay hey hey!' moment on my Trek 1500 (alloy frame, Ultegra all round, rolling on Mavic Aksiums and Continental GP Attack/Forces) in the rain yesterday. Honking down a hill in Glenfield toward a sharp left-hand bend, the rear tyre flatted without me realising it (I was crankin' the MP3s at the time, Fun Lovin' Criminals for the muthafuckin win y'all). I turned into the bend and waaaaay hey hey, the back end came straight around! Just about highsided my arse into the middle of the road.

But I stayed on the gas, looked where I wanted to go and rode it out.

And I gotta say, it's all the experience I have riding 600s and other bikes of similar moderate power that enabled me to do that. Gotta build up to it, y'know? If I'd gotten straight onto the pushbike without that practice, who knows what coulda happened.

:msn-wink:

Motorcycles only do what you tell them to, and that's all there is to it.

[madbikeboy]

Another excellent comment. as for "knowing" rather than asking. All I was after was opinion. Ultimately I will be making up my own mind. But having not ridden a thou yet, I thought it might be pertinent to get some experienced advice rather than rely on my own thoughts on the matter.

Well, shit, it gets easy in that case. Go ride the RSV, that'll help you reach a decision very quickly. :woohoo:

RSV's are excellent fun, and very easy to ride with all that torque. And so forgiving... And cheap to service, and great to commute on.

[madbikeboy]

I had a real 'waaaay hey hey!' moment on my Trek 1500 (alloy frame, Ultegra all round, rolling on Mavic Aksiums and Continental GP Attack/Forces) in the rain yesterday. Honking down a hill in Glenfield toward a sharp left-hand bend, the rear tyre flatted without me realising it (I was crankin' the MP3s at the time, Fun Lovin' Criminals for the muthafuckin win y'all). I turned into the bend and waaaaay hey hey, the back end came straight around! Just about highsided my arse into the middle of the road.

But I stayed on the gas, looked where I wanted to go and rode it out.

And I gotta say, it's all the experience I have riding 600s and other bikes of similar moderate power that enabled me to do that. Gotta build up to it, y'know? If I'd gotten straight onto the pushbike without that practice, who knows what coulda happened.

:msn-wink:

Motorcycles only do what you tell them to, and that's all there is to it.

Friends don't let friends, ride Trek.

Quit being sarcastic. Oh, right...

[sinfull]

occasional trackday.
Litre bike ! But define litre ! Mines a 1050 ! Does that make it a litre bike ?
Its 20% heavier an 20% less Hp than say a CBR thou RRRRRRR (however many)
Aint super fast and i watch the thous dissapear in the distance (st8ts that is bwahahaha) but on the street it would be more n ample !


I turned into the bend and waaaaay hey hey, the back end came straight around! Just about highsided my arse into the middle of the road. Ummmm had a moment myself on thursday

But I stayed on the gas, . Ummm no
And I gotta say, it's all the experience I have riding 600s and other bikes of similar moderate power that enabled me to do that. Gotta build up to it, y'know? If I'd gotten straight onto the pushbike without that practice, who knows what coulda happened.
I blame the road tyres (not to mention the litre bike i was gonna have coming out of T1:msn-wink:

Motorcycles only do what you tell them to, and that's all there is to it. True !! As i was kissing the gauges with legs flailing behind me, i told it to take me back to the pits ! It did !


Well, shit, it gets easy in that case. Go ride the RSV, that'll help you reach a decision very quickly. :woohoo:

RSV's are excellent fun, and very easy to ride with all that torque. And so forgiving... And cheap to service, and great to commute on.
Fun on the track !!!

[jrandom]

Friends don't let friends, ride Trek.

Good thing I'm not your friend then.

[madbikeboy]

Good thing I'm not your friend then.

Yep. Good thing.

[Gubb]

I had a real 'waaaay hey hey!' moment on my Trek 1500...And I gotta say, it's all the experience I have riding 600s and other bikes of similar moderate power that enabled me to do that.

They sound like very underpowered 600s.

[The Stranger]

Other thing to concider is thous are a real PITA to commute on in town.

Why's that cowboyz?
I've never had any problem commuting on a 1000.

[The Stranger]

Yes


How do you figure that?
1000 IL4 will generally have more torque and pull across a greater range.

[Racer X]

Not at all. If you asked the question (seriously) then you are probably fine.

Still, I would recommend a 600

[johan]

Try a big twin, you might like it, a lot! :eek:

(the big il4 1000cc scare the shit out of me)

[Squiggles]

Yes it can be done, its all about how you decide to ride the bike, and how quickly you learn how it handles...
Today's Gixxer thou puts out alot more power than my 97 TL ever will...

[testastretta]

I would say you should buy some thing in the 70 - 90 hp range before stepping up to an RSV.If you want an Aprilia maybe a Shiver or Dorsoduro may be a good option especially for commuting.

[toycollector10]

It's your decision but I agree with the posters who think that you should ease into it. There's no rush and there's a lot of enjoyment to be had out of a 250cc bike or even smaller.

I spent 3 years on a 50cc step-through then 250cc, 650cc, 750cc and now up to 900cc.

Back in the 1970's, (yes, I'm an old fart), if you rocked up to your dealer and he didn't know you he wouldn't sell you a large capacity bike. He'd advise you to start off on a BSA Bantam or something like a Honda CB200, come back for a 350cc a year later then after that period of consolidation all bets would be off.

Good luck with whatever decision you make. It was a good call to ask the question.

[ManDownUnder]

DO you think a 1000cc bike is "too much" for someone as their first "big" bike (ie, first bike on a full license)

Almost certainly - yes.

Jump on a 400, take it for a squirt and see if you like it, or if it's too small/slow for some reason. Dollars to donuts you'll drop a thou within 3 months of owning it. I't a proven formula that means you'll spend more on a bike, more on insurance, be more in pain, and boost your future insurance premiums.

Try something smaller - see what works for you. It needs to be fun but in control and that balance is totally individual, but impacted by the level and nature of experience you have. Take some IL4's for a ride, and some V-Twins. See what feels good to you. Must be good - must be safe.

The other things I'd suggest are
1) Learn to brake on the bigger machine when you get it. Sounds dumb but twin disks on the front behave a lot different to other systems and grabbing a handful of brake will get painful if you're not practiced at it.

Brakes on bigger bikes are better... ready yourself for that
2) Ride for a while below... 4000rpm, then below 5000 etc. I found that learning a bike takes me about 3 months. I mean really getting my mojo back on it so I know what it's going to do. I strongly encourage you to do the same.
3) Trackdays - after doing one and 2 above. They'll take you up another couple of steps again - and are worth their weight in gold.

[ManDownUnder]

Why's that cowboyz?
I've never had any problem commuting on a 1000.

Ditto - in fact I'd maintain it's given me some safety advantages in traffic on occasion

[The Stranger]

DO you think a 1000cc bike is "too much" for someone as their first "big" bike

So now you have your answer, what are you going to do?



I know what I would do.

[v8s&2wheels]

hi guys dont want to steal the thread away but im sort of in the same boat. Except i definatly dont want or need a thou I4. Ive got a zxr250 at the moment. That was fun. Did me over the napier taupo road just fine could easily kill the corners. Now i want a 2000+ model 600. Ive got my eye on a zx6r g2 model. And i know they have 108hp (or there abouts). Ive read this whole thread and was wondering. Would a jump from 40hp to around 110hp be too much of a jump? I had the opportunity to get a sv650s (70hp) quite cheap off a mate but decided against it as they just dont appeal so much to me.

My real question is am I going to hurt/kill myself on 108hp? Im not going to push into it i would only just start off slowly and build confidence with the bike and the speed of the bike. ive owned some fast cars (i know its completely different to bikes) so am use to the acceleration force. But if i take it easy is the zx6r a good step up for me? Or am i safer to get a sv650s and then go that extra horsepower later on?

[98tls]

Its all been said really,will only add that going straight to something that far outweighs your skill levels could in my opinion anyway in the long term handicap your riding ability.If me i would be looking hard at a 600 or similar,if you question there performance spend some time watching the likes of Wanganui st race dvds and you will see with the right guy onboard theres little between them and the 1000s,in the real world on real roads the difference is even less.

[mowgli]

DO you think a 1000cc bike is "too much" for someone as their first "big" bike (ie, first bike on a full license)
Been there - broke my leg. I'm thirty something and careful. I'm not immune to making mistakes though.

If you're asking the question then you already know the answer is 'yes'.

[chester]

what about a threee cylinder?:niceone: I went from a 250 Hornet to a 675 trumpet and its been a good step up.

[Gremlin]

As I say to most of these threads... you simply won't/can't comprehend just how fast a big bike will accelerate. You can't think fast enough. This nicely leads into when you have a little moment on it, and can't think fast enough to get yourself out of the mess. Most of the time, the extra power it has only amplifies the problem. This is especially true for your instinct and habit. A twist to make something small go, makes the big bike launch you into the scenery.

I got caught out with my usual twist even between my two bikes, both naked and 900-1000cc, simply because one was much more responsive to the throttle. The normal twist and usual accelerate turned into, launch out of the side road, heading for the island, thinking fark, wrong bike, and having to lean it over like hell to get it around.

The fact that twins have more torque than a thou rather than hp is a bit of a myth. The likes of gixxer thous have stupid amounts of torque, lower and more plentiful than the twins.

As for age and maturity. A 30-something year old bought my zzr250 as his learner bike. He didn't last 20 days, because he ended up in the oncoming, and was hit by a 4wd. He was mature, "older", and simply had always wanted to learn, now was his chance.

Now couple little mistakes with a bike that accelerates faster than you can think?

[cheshirecat]

My 10 cents as well. Got back into bikes acouple of years ago and bought a 500. This is after riding a CBX1000 6 and several years as a London Despatch rider. Reckon I've used up all my nine lives so ride a bit careful these days. Now have a 14 year old VFR but it took me several months getting used to it and really valued the 500 experience especially these NZ roads. For me it's not so much the normal riding, it's the small things which can trip you up and are very expensive these days. Most of the above riders have aclimatised to the new performance machines and God knows what a 2008 1000 feels like, but my old red bus VFR is plenty for everything. Bikes are very emotive so pos if you ride it you'll know immediately. Happy riding and good luck.

[Number One]

My two cents...SV650s ROCK!!!! I spent several years on various 250s then had a large break away from riding and returned to riding with my first 'large' bike :lol:
While I am experienced enough that thous don't seem as big and scary as they used to - the 650 still has more to give than I use but is still well capable of losing me my life and my license...personally speaking I really can't see the point in a thou as you can't really use it on the road anyway.

Good luck and enjoy the test riding :niceone:

[sinfull]

My two cents...SV650s ROCK!!!! :

The other side to this you may not have thought of is that IF And a big IF track days grab ya by the balls as they have done to me, The SV gives you some great options if you feel you want to get into the argy bargy side of road racing !
I suddenly find myself with an F1 bike lol wow (not a shit show)

[Number One]

The other side to this you may not have thought of is that IF And a big IF track days grab ya by the balls as they have done to me, The SV gives you some great options if you feel you want to get into the argy bargy side of road racing !
I suddenly find myself with an F1 bike lol wow (not a shit show)
Well we do have another SV...:shutup: :lol:

[sinfull]

Well we do have another SV you could borrow !...:shutup: :lol:
Awww hey nice offer but it aint the way i roll !!!
Then again ............

[Number One]

Awww hey nice offer but it aint the way i roll !!!
Then again ............
Nice misquote - dream on old fulla :lol:

[Mom]

Or, if you are like me, your feet dont even come close to touching the ground on an SV, well they do, but tippy toe stuff. I am past leaning off the seat at the lights with the point of one boot on the ground. I can't ride Maha's bike as I can't reach the controls comfortably, and if I have the controls, I definately can't reach the ground. Bikes have to fit you as well as how you want to ride them. Guys for the record here...size does matter :yes:

Go test ride a few and see what fits. CC rating is not as important as hp in my opinion.

[Number One]

Or, if you are like me, your feet dont even come close to touching the ground on an SV

Fark!!! Are you really THAT short...geez and I thought I was a midget :chase:

[sinfull]

Nice misquote - dream on old fulla :lol:
Indian giver !!!

[Mom]

Fark!!! Are you really THAT short...geez and I thought I was a midget :chase:

I can tippy toe on a SV650, probably be ok with a lowered one. That is why I love my Radian I can reach the ground easy, and I can reach the controls as well....LOL

[McJim]

I feel like an old broken record. The phrase that best sums up this whole issue is "Fitness for purpose".

[Number One]

I feel like an old broken record. The phrase that best sums up this whole issue is "Fitness for purpose".
Really? Come here and let me FEEL you...then I shall confirm or deny your claim :shutup: ;)

[Swoop]

yes, I commute every single day to and from work through auckland traffic so it's commutability is an issue.
How do you think a thou' would behave as a commuter bike?

[BM-GS]

What Gremlin said in post #50. I had a mid-90s sporty 600 and managed to score an early R1 as a loaner at service time. I had to ride it lots to be REALLY sure, but it needed way too much concentration to ride. There was no bimble-mode, as the thing would shoot for the horizon if a bump tweaked my throtle hand a degree. On the way home from the dealer, I got stuck behind a cage on a twisty road I didn't know well and sat for a bit until we came to a straight - starting the overtake at 50mph in 3rd (used to the revvy 600, see) I was doing 120mph by the time I passed the front bumper.

There seems to be a sweet spot at about 75-90bhp where you have enough oomph to be getting on with, but not enough to spit you off for inattention, and God knows there's enough else to worry about in Aucks on a bike. A GSXR/R1/ZX10R/Blade will do the commuting, touring or whatever, but there are a hundred other bikes which won't bite you so hard. Softer, heavier, etc can be good. And 75bhp still isn't slow. You also save on tyres, chains, etc...

Of course, given a bigger garage and bank balance I'd have a litre sportsbike, as well as a giant trailie, a middleweight runabout (SV/ER) and a scoot, and change them every year or 2, but I don't.

What are you going to do with it, and how much do you want to spend? If you're not sure, go small & learn.

[98tls]

I feel like an old broken record. The phrase that best sums up this whole issue is "Fitness for purpose". So Jimmy in your case whats on the outside is actually a reflection of the inner.:pinch:

[piston broke]

mom had a great point back there <<
get a bike that fits you,and your purpose

[beyond]

If you have sensibility and ride well within your known limits you will be ok. You can wipe yourself on a 250 anyway but a litre bike super sport is a lot of power.

You have to be super smooth on the throttle when coming out of corners and especially so in the wet.

I had a 25 year absence from bikes and when I got back into biking three years ago went for the biggest bike on the floor for a sports...GSX1400.

I'm now on my second after trading it and have done 60,000kms in that time and yep, I'm still here.

I'll say it again.... it takes at least 5000kms and more like 10,000kms before you can get to know a bike inside and out, know it's limits and what you can expect of it. Until that point, you do not ride any bike of any size if your right hand gets in the way of brain wisdom and experience.

Buy what you want but respect it till you know it and once you know it always remember the potential and ride accordingly.

[Oscar]

yep. Take a shop thou out for a run. Then if you break it at least it wasnt yours. The excess on most demos are under what real insurance usually is and it doesnt technically fuck up your personal insurance record for the future.

Win win situation.

Not only is it technically non-disclosure, it's actual non-disclosure if you fail to mention a crash like that. Do you know what ab initio cancellation is?

[Mom]

Really? Come here and let me FEEL you...then I shall confirm or deny your claim :shutup: ;)

Be careful there Number One, broken records have sharp edges, you might get a vinyl cut, them is nasty buggers :devil2:

[madbikeboy]

What Gremlin said in post #50. I had a mid-90s sporty 600 and managed to score an early R1 as a loaner at service time. I had to ride it lots to be REALLY sure, but it needed way too much concentration to ride. There was no bimble-mode, as the thing would shoot for the horizon if a bump tweaked my throtle hand a degree. On the way home from the dealer, I got stuck behind a cage on a twisty road I didn't know well and sat for a bit until we came to a straight - starting the overtake at 50mph in 3rd (used to the revvy 600, see) I was doing 120mph by the time I passed the front bumper.

There seems to be a sweet spot at about 75-90bhp where you have enough oomph to be getting on with, but not enough to spit you off for inattention, and God knows there's enough else to worry about in Aucks on a bike. A GSXR/R1/ZX10R/Blade will do the commuting, touring or whatever, but there are a hundred other bikes which won't bite you so hard. Softer, heavier, etc can be good. And 75bhp still isn't slow. You also save on tyres, chains, etc...

Of course, given a bigger garage and bank balance I'd have a litre sportsbike, as well as a giant trailie, a middleweight runabout (SV/ER) and a scoot, and change them every year or 2, but I don't.

What are you going to do with it, and how much do you want to spend? If you're not sure, go small & learn.

What Gremlin said and what BM-GS just said.

x 10.

So, a while ago, I was following a van, good distance, well to the left as it was my escape route, when the bitch in the legacy two lanes to my left swerved (she was texting) towards me. Being a reasonable alert sort of fellow, (I was in second doing about 75kph), I gassed it and shot past the van - front wheel came up (you can steer a bike without the front btw), and didn't go down until I was well past - when I got out of the throttle, I was doing about 160kph. And it took much less time to do it than to read it. I ride an IL4 GSXR1000 with some work. Do you get the point of what we're trying to write here? If you think the RSV is any less of an animal on the limit, then you're probably kidding yourself.

Another thing, as bikes get larger, you need to be more physical with them, this is due to the actual forces involved - this is something that you don't notice until you need to do something in a hurry, if the bike is starting to slide, or you need to push the bike down into a corner harder to change line.

Further, a SV650 with a good pilot will be in the fast group at a trackday, no worries. So, I wouldn't be worried about buying something too slow.

Okay, stuck record.

Oh, to answer Swoop, commuting on a 1000 is neat, but not a long term plan. Nor is it cheap, tires, chains, wing mirrors... And gas. My car is cheaper to run, and that's before a new tire every month or two.

[toycollector10]

You know yourself, that a 50cc Chinese scooter can kill you just as quick as a Hayabusa.

As someone here said, TRACK DAYS are the key. Whatever you buy, kit yourself out and get down to a track day(s) and find out what you and the bike are capable of. If you bin it, at least there won't be a truck or 4WD to slide under or a lamp post to slide into!

Good luck!

[cowboyz]

Why's that cowboyz?
I've never had any problem commuting on a 1000.


well, technically I dont have a thou BUT..


50k for my bike is about 3000rpm in 2nd. 5000 in 1st. Bike gets very hot very fast in traffic. Apart from the constant 1st/2nd gear changes when some hot chicks are standing on the side of the road the temptation to lift the front wheel can be overwhelming and "I was trying to look cool" is not a good defence (apparently)

[The Stranger]

well, technically I dont have a thou BUT..


50k for my bike is about 3000rpm in 2nd. 5000 in 1st. Bike gets very hot very fast in traffic. Apart from the constant 1st/2nd gear changes when some hot chicks are standing on the side of the road the temptation to lift the front wheel can be overwhelming and "I was trying to look cool" is not a good defence (apparently)


Yeah - I bet you could ride in 3rd or 4th if you didn't have to be cool though.
I'm not and I can.

[cowboyz]

Yeah - I bet you could ride in 3rd or 4th if you didn't have to be cool though.
I'm not and I can.

taking the piss aside. No. I cant. definitely not 4th. Clunky as shit and it is just turning over and if you want to zip past something it bogs down big time. 3rd. well if I had to I could. I think the stock gearing on my bike is way too high. Often thought about gearing it down but meh, I dont have to take it through town so I dont.

[cowboyz]

Not only is it technically non-disclosure, it's actual non-disclosure if you fail to mention a crash like that. Do you know what ab initio cancellation is?

To be quite honest. I couldnt give a fuck about insurance companies. They seem to have an art of bullshit and slight of hand. If anyone can get one over on them then good on em.

PS. If you think I am sour about an insurance claim that went wrong bear in mind that in 25yrs of riding I have NEVER had an at-fault claim.

[The Stranger]

taking the piss aside. No. I cant. definitely not 4th. Clunky as shit and it is just turning over and if you want to zip past something it bogs down big time. 3rd. well if I had to I could. I think the stock gearing on my bike is way too high. Often thought about gearing it down but meh, I dont have to take it through town so I dont.

Straight up.
The Fazer will pull cleanly in any of the first 5 gears from 50kph.
It will of course be sluggish in 4th and more so in 5th. But the engine won't bog and won't ping.

[H00dz]

As you say - it depends on the rider more than the bike.

I moved to a 1000cc V-Strom (not the fastest in the world - but faster than a GN250) within a year of starting riding (had a licence exemption).

So far no problems at all.


I'm with Tank, i went straight to 1200cc from Learners, its a state of mind thing, style of bike etc,etc,etc

Good luck

[Gremlin]

Straight up.
The Fazer will pull cleanly in any of the first 5 gears from 50kph.
It will of course be sluggish in 4th and more so in 5th. But the engine won't bog and won't ping.
If I remember rightly, you modified the gearing on the fazer? Generally speaking, the kawasaki's don't make a lot of torque down low, or at least, are not re-knowned for it. 3rd gear on most bikes should be ok tho.

Other thing that has been touched on, but should be emphasised... depending on how you ride it, big bikes consume parts and consumables like they are going out of fashion. Tyres, chains, sprockets don't last as long as you like, and quality costs (and never lasts any longer).

Original chain and sprockets on 2005 Hornet CB900 lasted 42,000km. Original chain and sprockets on 2004 ZX10R - 17,000km (yes, it was ridden a little harder...). Both were cared for by scottoiler, but the extra horsepower simply places more strain on parts.

Me... I had a ZX10R for 18 months, fantastic fun, but couldn't justify the costs, risks (personal and license) and I was having more fun on the Hornet, with less hp, less cost, and less law breaking. Alarmingly simple.

To those questioning the SV (more so the 650 than the 1000), its a real budget bike, and you generally only understand how basic and unrefined it is when you have spent more time on better quality bikes. Easy example is the shocking front suspension. Flame me, I don't care, just my experience of having one for a few days as a loaner.

[cowboyz]

good point on running costs. my older 600 (91gsxF) was incredibly cheap to run compared to the 9. Chain last me about 25000km. tyres about 8000. Compared to the 600 (which of course was one of the tamest 600s you can buy) where tyres lasted me 12-14000km and were cheaper (being 160).

[naphazoline]

DO you think a 1000cc bike is "too much" for someone as their first "big" bike (ie, first bike on a full license)

I know it would depend partly on the attitude of the rider and where and how they ride etc. but in general terms? For a sensible rider that's been riding for a fair few years and just gotten around to getting a full. Not a child either, over 30 years of age that values their life over impressing other motorists.

to use for a daily auckland commute as well as longer weekend rides.


I spent 20 odd years not riding at all.Scored an '88 gsxr 750, and rode it for 5-6 months,then got an 06 cbr1000rr.The OLD gixxer was a good stepping stone,but in hindsight,i wished that i had gone to a late model 600-750,to follow up with.

I've had no real problems to date,but the thou' has too much power to possibly use it all on the road,and especially if you're commuting in traffic like auckland,it would be a downright waste of time.

The blade, ( an I.L.4 ) will tootle around town in traffic relatively happily,but I don't like it,as there's no fun in that.The fun is out on the open road,where it's not being held up in congested traffic,and where the twisties are.

So,i'd have to say,that the short answer is to go with a smaller CC rated bike first.
But if you're hell bent on a thou',then it doesn't have to be a suicidal move like some people make out,but you will have to pay it some major respect.

P.S.
I'm talking about sportsbikes here.

[Hans]

All about self-control imho. In other words, explore your limits one very small step at a time. If you don't overestimate your own abilities, you should be ok. Good luck.

[mowgli]

How do you think a thou' would behave as a commuter bike?
It would drink gas and chew tires :niceone:

[MaxCannon]

Not sure if anyone has pointed out the weight differences of larger bikes.
I went from a GN250 > ZZR400 > Bandit 600
The ZZR taught me a lot in terms of handling the weight of a larger bike.
Power was pretty tame but learning how to control the bike at all speeds was very important.
Going on to the bandit was an easy transition. I think now after a few months of ownership I might be ready for 1000cc sports bike but my 600 does everything I need it to and is a lot cheaper to run and insure.
Going from a 250cc to a 1000cc would be a pretty huge jump - even it the 1000cc bike is in a mild state of tune.

Plenty of 600cc bikes around that provide decent thrills with less risk of a highside.
I had just as much fun on the Bandit going around Pukekohe as my mate on his ZX10. Probably more as I didn't have to worry about the bike trying to kick me off into the wall if I got on the power too early.

[Chrislost]

DO you think a 1000cc bike is "too much" for someone as their first "big" bike (ie, first bike on a full license)

I know it would depend partly on the attitude of the rider and where and how they ride etc. but in general terms? For a sensible rider that's been riding for a fair few years and just gotten around to getting a full. Not a child either, over 30 years of age that values their life over impressing other motorists.

to use for a daily auckland commute as well as longer weekend rides.

In my opinion, if you have to ask this, your not ready.

A thousand will make a excelent commuter, fishtailing between cars and wheelies at every light will brighten your day a LOT! The only downside is that you may not fit between those two cars up the other end of the road that are suddenly right in front of you...

[90s]

yes, I commute every single day to and from work through auckland traffic so it's commutability is an issue.

Definately not a wannabe anything, just a bigger guy that wants some speed in sensible situations, something larger for roadtrips without ringing the shit out of the bike and something for the occasional trackday.

Almost any 600 would give you any of that, even one such as mine (Cowboyz described in this thread as one of the "tamest" 600s you can get.)

If you are lanesplitting every day you don't want a litrebike. There's a big difference between what you need for the above, and what you just want. Even an 80bhp 600 like mine will haul my 16st. butt to 100k in 4.5 seconds. And doesn't slow much with the wife on board. Will run down to Wellington no problem. This class of "tame" 600 (CBRFs, Bandits etc) is all you need.

But if you just want a litrebike then you just want one and you have to live with the consequences. JR is right - its when things go pearshaped that the difference will show between being on a forgiving bike (of any cc) or a bitch -and most litrebikes fall into the latter category. If you do go litre there's still a world of difference between "sensible" ones and the R1s. I would NOT want to learn the finer aspects of taming an R1 on my Auckland commute.

You might not have found the threads before of people asking the same question, but there have been lots, and generally the tone has been more "when you crash it within the first few months, post again if you survived" - and sure enough a few have. Certainly probably as many as in this post have jumped from small to large and had no probs.

Finally I would investigate US crash stats. The yanks are morons when it comes to bikes. Your first bike can be any cc and litrebikes are seen as ideal first bikes to many. Lids are also not compulsary. None of that adds up to pretty I can tell you.

[SPman]

No worries.


The Dover went from a Hyo 250 straight to a 1K5 Gixxer.......then another one.........then another one.......

Anyway, by the time he got to bike #3, he'd got the hang of it!

[jim.cox]

There's a big difference between what you need for the above, and what you just want

For a commuter, I would go for something 450 to 600 cc in super motard style.

Fun in the traffic and big enough to take you anywhere in NZ for the weekends

[Sky-hi]

thanks heaps for all your input guys. Especially those that chose to use sarcasm even though it's very hard to distinquish in the written form at times.

Looks like a 600 is the go for me. I'll post with more info when I get it and let you all know how I got on. Unless I'm dead....

thanks again!!

[The Stranger]

No worries.

The Dover went from a Hyo 250 straight to a 1K5 Gixxer.......then another one.........then another one.......



From this we can conclude that drugs and motorcycling do not mix.

[Hitcher]

Looks like a 600 is the go for me.

There is a range of 650s and 750s on offer, not to mention 800s and 900s.

A 600 of a certain type, in the wrong hands, can be just as problematic as a 1,000 of a certain type.

[vifferman]

A 600 of a certain type, in the wrong hands, can be just as problematic as a 1,000 of a certain type.
As someone else said, you can kill yourself very efficiently on a 50.

I've commuted on two different 500s, a 750, a 1000 and a 800. No real difference, but the 800 (current bike) is better on the open road, and better'n the 1000 for communtering.

If most of your riding is communtering, you don't need many cc's or horsies, and in fact, anything that can travel comfortably at 100km/h is OK. However, if you can have only one bike, and want an all-rounder that you will mostly use for communtering, you should buy something of at least 600cc, that IS a good all-rounder, not a "balls to the wall" sprotsbike.

[Mystic13]

Sounds like you have your answer. Some say yes fine and others are no way.

You mention the rider would be over 30, a commuter and sensible so I'd say...

yep. go for it.

I know a guy who went from a 150cc bike to a Hayabusa. He still rides the Hayabusa around now. He's had the odd off but that wasn't because of the bike size. It also wasn't really due to experience he would have gained otherwise. The offs were minor issues that he walked away from them. Whether he had a 600 or busa... he was going to do the same thing with the same damage.

I would not recommend going to a Hayabusa from an underpowered learners bike. if you've just come off an Aprilia 250 then no probs.

(Oh... and the dealers did everything they could to talk him out of the busa and into a smaller bike and he was just adamant it was a busa or nothing. They sell it to him or he gets one somewhere else.)

[Mystic13]

Now to balance the argument I saw a guy who went from small to a 1200S BMW. He came off numerous times including once while riding in a straight line.

He was a clear candidate for not going to a big bike first off. He just didn't have the riding thing together.

He doesn't fall off much now.

[peasea]

DO you think a 1000cc bike is "too much" for someone as their first "big" bike (ie, first bike on a full license)

I know it would depend partly on the attitude of the rider and where and how they ride etc. but in general terms? For a sensible rider that's been riding for a fair few years and just gotten around to getting a full. Not a child either, over 30 years of age that values their life over impressing other motorists.

to use for a daily auckland commute as well as longer weekend rides.

I'd say go for a balls-to-the-wall large displacement bike. Turbo it (with nitrous to eliminate the turbo lag, coz you're gonna need a big turbo), get the best suspension and brakes you can possibly obtain (steal it all if you have to), paint it flat black, register it in your best mate's mother's name and go bait a cop or two.

Or.... you could just do the muffler, airbox, rubber, brakes and suspension and be done with it. With those five items done you can explore the limitations of the machine. If you do change the airbox and muffler you will need to check a/f ratios. Once you've done all that and you want more, upgrade the internals or perhaps the whole bike. (Often the cheaper/more reliable option. There are plenty of so-called "great" engine builders out there who offer 'performance' packages way more expensive than the next-step-up bike.)

With careful selection some of the good bits (shocks, calipers, rotors) can be taken off and plonked on the next bike.

[The Stranger]

I'd say go for a balls-to-the-wall large displacement bike. Turbo it (with nitrous to eliminate the turbo lag, coz you're gonna need a big turbo), get the best suspension and brakes you can possibly obtain (steal it all if you have to), paint it flat black, register it in your best mate's mother's name and go bait a cop or two.

Or.... you could just do the muffler, airbox, rubber, brakes and suspension and be done with it. With those five items done you can explore the limitations of the machine. If you do change the airbox and muffler you will need to check a/f ratios. Once you've done all that and you want more, upgrade the internals or perhaps the whole bike. (Often the cheaper/more reliable option. There are plenty of so-called "great" engine builders out there who offer 'performance' packages way more expensive than the next-step-up bike.)

With careful selection some of the good bits (shocks, calipers, rotors) can be taken off and plonked on the next bike.

Finally! A voice of reason.

[peasea]

Now to balance the argument I saw a guy who went from small to a 1200S BMW. He came off numerous times including once while riding in a straight line.

He was a clear candidate for not going to a big bike first off. He just didn't have the riding thing together.

He doesn't fall off much now.

I started on a 650, then 750, 883, 1340 and now 1450. Only ever came off the 650. Once, thanks to a dork, once gravel on a tight corner and once thanks to a flying muffler from the car in front. It's dependent on the rider and in the wrong hands a pushbike can kill.

[FROSTY]

Dude if ya still want cool looking then ya might wanna have a look at some of the euro/jap twins. (euro frame /styling Jap motors)
Theres some pretty sexy 650's out there that are only 70 ish HP but handle really nicely.
Um the TRX850 yamaha also looks sayxy

[bully]

some thous have slipper clutches too now, a good saftey thing i think. but if you think your guna redline a thou like ghost rider, best get a pine box too.

[zzzbang]

for commuting.. especially in the city with traffic lights and stuff, its the biggest pain. uncomfortable and annoying, the end. :dodge:

[Despatch]

Yes. Its actually best to gain your riding experience on a smaller bike. The temptation is to use the throttle of a bigger bike to compensate for lack of riding ability. Even a 200cc is powerful enough around town for a competent rider, and should be able to keep up with any other bike. It teaches you to not over-use your brakes and to maintain your momentum correctly. You still need good disc brakes on the front.

Moving to a bigger bike later is more for comfort, and for having that extra bit of power when you need it.

[tonyg26]

wat about a 600cc you can still get fast 600

[90s]

I'd say go for a balls-to-the-wall large displacement bike. Turbo it (with nitrous to eliminate the turbo lag, coz you're gonna need a big turbo) ... paint it flat black


To balance my earlier post, in the late 80s a friend did exactly this - bought a big ninja as a first bike, bored it out, nitrous injection, stripped it naked, powder coated the frame blue and sprayed the rest back and impressed the hell out of us young men riding liddle two-strokes, mopeds and farm bikes.

He's still alive, but I did nearly see him kill himself - almost daily at one point - and even drop pillions whilst wheelstanding.

However, that was a clear case of rider rather than bike. It seemed all great fun at the time.

And look at me now, lobbying for sensible 600 commuters ...
(although my '88 commuter at its launch was still faster to 60mph than either the Ferrari Testostarona or the Lamborghini Countcash ... slow is as slow does as they say ...)

[vifferman]

To balance my earlier post, in the late 80s a friend did exactly this - bought a big ninja as a first bike, bored it out, nitrous injection, stripped it naked, powder coated the frame blue and sprayed the rest back and impressed the hell out of us young men riding liddle two-strokes, mopeds and farm bikes.
When I was at school, and before the 250s rule for learners came in, a guy at our school had a Kawasaki 500 triple as his first bike. I don't think it was so much the power that was the problem as the weight, but rumour had it he dropped or crashed it at least once a week. Eventually he ended up in hospital.

When he recovered, he replaced it with a Kawasaki 900.

[jim.cox]

a guy at our school had a Kawasaki 500 triple as his first bike. I don't think it was so much the power that was the problem as the weight.

Not the weight - they were pretty light.

But the frames were made of flexy cheese (technical term), the engine had a wicked powerband, and the brakes were typical of the period (ie shitty)


When he recovered, he replaced it with a Kawasaki 900.

That was a much easier bike to ride

[FlyingDutchMan]

I just recently got a CB900 Honda Hornet (8 weeks ago) after 5+ years on the CBR250. After the first 10km which were a bit wobbly getting used to it, I now find the Hornet fantastic. It is quite a jump going from 45hp to 110hp, esp with the responsive throttle, but I got used to it quite quickly. I've done 6,000km on the Hornet so far with out issue - it is far more comfortable and stable than the 250 ever was. It has got a flat torque curve between 2k to 10k rpm that makes it very easy to ride. The hardest thing to learn was to not to give it too much throttle for over taking!

If you're sensible and have ridden a reasonably powerful 250, then something like the hornet is a fantastic step. I definitely wasn't keen on a 133hp 600cc sports bike.

A few reasons I went for the Hornet:
It is a relatively cheap bike (<$7k for an '02 that had done 15,000km)
Wasn't a sports bike (i.e. sensible power curve)
918cc - 110hp - decent amount of power.
Not much in the way of fairings (they're expensive to fix)
No bad reviews - except by biker mags - everyone else seems to love them
Suited to the touring stuff I like to do, but also commutes well.
Fuel economy - 19km/l for open road or commuting.

[Tone165]

I did not read right thru so sorry if Im repeating.

I do not think a litre bike, of any type, is suitable for an inexperienced rider or learner..and we are all learners till we die.....

This is one area where women have it all over guys...they don't need to go straight to the biggest bike they can afford, andf usually progress from 250 to 400 to 750 etc...

Size does not matter and my advice is take your time, get good at handling a bike before you get anything too powerful.

Another really relevant factor esp for you youngsters...INSURANCE!!!

There is a massive difference between the premium for a 650 and a Busa, and probably still a diff between a Busa and GiXeRthou.

I have been riding since 71. Never owned a >1000cc till 90's. Now I have a Busa, (188hp)a 1000cc Tourer (99hp) and a GSX650F (hp unknown)

I saw some Harleys on the Dyno...they seem to run mid 70's hp

I have been getting around on an SV650 lately and would recommend that as an excellent step up, light, torque a plenty, and lots of fun to ride.

[The Stranger]

I do not think a litre bike, of any type, is suitable for an inexperienced rider or learner..and we are all learners till we die.....

This is one area where women have it all over guys...they don't need to go straight to the biggest bike they can afford, andf usually progress from 250 to 400 to 750 etc...



Yet a certain young woman rode her own Hayabusa for the last 6 months of her learners - and is alive and well today.
The biggest difference is women can genreally control their right hands better than men.

[Brett]

Reading some of the posts here, I think a distinction needs to be made... some of you are talking about large capacity bikes FROM THE 70'S 80'S and 90's.
Let us not forget that a new 600 supersport puts out as much power/more power than most (nearly all) 1000cc bikes 10 years ago and they are lighter.

600's are great machines, more poke than you need on a road and many tracks. the ONLY time I have found my gsxr 600 to be lacking in power is on Pukekohe. Taupo, I reckon a 600 is the ideal machine. Hence the reason that I haven't gone and traded in on a 1000cc sports bike yet. That said, took the gsxr 750 out for a spin and was blown away with it, power jump wasn't huge, but the handling side was amazing. Much more ridable than say, the past few years zx10r's have been.

[Bladeslapper109]

ok im no experienced rider but this time last week I was in the same position as you. - also didnt read right through all posts

I was on a restricted license and riding an old gsx600f - 230 kg and only about 70 hp. good step from a 250.

I sat my license last week to buy a Fireblade.

Before I bought it I was a bit afraid(scared) if it was too much power to step up from the old technology 600 but when i jumped on it, it was a pretty placid bike. it only goes as hard as you let it. I expected to give it throttle and it took off like a rocket but you really need to keep the revs high to get into danger.

Basically if your a decent rider for your experience level then stepping up to a thou is fine from a 600 but I certainly wouldnt do it from a 250.

Question for experienced riders or people who know a bit about fireblades.

Like I said im not an experienced rider but I am reasonably skilled for my experience level.

I can get up on the back wheel in first under throttle and much easier clutching it up but I expected a thou to get up under throttle in second. I only weigh 75kg

I want to get up at 100k and there seems not nearly enough power.

Are these bikes detuned or something or does this sound normal.
Doesnt take a lot of skill to roll on throttle to get the front in the air i thought.
Bike should have about 155hp at the fly

I riden with other bikes that have jacked it up at 100.
Also the slipper clutch seems to be a pain when the clutch is warm.
Is this bad for my bike clutching it up in first.

Im prob guna cop a bit of shit for this but i love wheel stands.

Any advice info much appreciated.

[Bladeslapper109]

Also insurance isnt that bad.

Im under 25 with a fireblade and only paying $700

[Brett]

Also insurance isnt that bad.

Im under 25 with a fireblade and only paying $700

Your wheelie question, the blade, as with most new modern 600cc + bikes limit the power in the first few gears with secondary butterflys in the throttle body. I.e... they only let u really open up when it is 'safe' for the rider to do so. Get these de-restricted and you will have more power available from much earlier.

Also, an 05 Blade WILL power lift in second, and probable 3rd if you tried, try putting your weigh back in the saddle, and snatching the throttle when in the torque range (maybe even help by lifting the bars a little ) and it should come up all happy as larry.

[Bladeslapper109]

how do you delete double posts

[Bladeslapper109]

Your wheelie question, the blade, as with most new modern 600cc + bikes limit the power in the first few gears with secondary butterflys in the throttle body. I.e... they only let u really open up when it is 'safe' for the rider to do so. Get these de-restricted and you will have more power available from much earlier.

Also, an 05 Blade WILL power lift in second, and probable 3rd if you tried, try putting your weigh back in the saddle, and snatching the throttle when in the torque range (maybe even help by lifting the bars a little ) and it should come up all happy as larry.

Yea i have done these few things. I have done a lot of wheelies on dirt bikes so have the gist of it. Weight back and tried all tourque rev ranges but by the time im in peak tourque range its all ready over 100 in second and really doesnt have enough grunt.

In first it wont power lift untill about 9 or 10 grand at a guess.
And thats still pretty quick. so no early power

Also it seems very economical. got 230 kms off 14.8 liters
Pretty carm riding thou but still giving it a bit every now and then

How do you derestrict it??
And how common are slipper clutches, whats the point of these.

[90s]

I have been riding since 71.

Good one you for getting into biking after retirement. Life in the old dog yet.


I was on a restricted license and riding an old gsx600f - 230 kg and only about 70 hp. good step from a 250.

Can't let this go ... try 210kgs and 80hp+ ... sorry, felt me manhood challenged there ...


ok im no experienced rider ... I want to get up at 100k and there seems not nearly enough power ... Im prob guna cop a bit of shit for this but i love wheel stands.

Ho hum. I guess this is why there are lot of discussion on maturity in this thread ...

[Brett]

Yea i have done these few things. I have done a lot of wheelies on dirt bikes so have the gist of it. Weight back and tried all tourque rev ranges but by the time im in peak tourque range its all ready over 100 in second and really doesnt have enough grunt.

In first it wont power lift untill about 9 or 10 grand at a guess.
And thats still pretty quick. so no early power

Also it seems very economical. got 230 kms off 14.8 liters
Pretty carm riding thou but still giving it a bit every now and then

How do you derestrict it??
And how common are slipper clutches, whats the point of these.

Are you just waiting for the front to lift while under acceleration? If so, then this wont work. Modern bikes are designed to deliver the acceleration without the front lifting. I ride a 2005 GSXR 600, and in first gear I can lift the front wheel up to balance point easily at about 7 -8k rpm by simply snapping on the throttle (not rolling it on).
Yes, to do power wheelies (not clutched) you end up doing pretty quick speeds. Over 100KPH easy if you dont get it up to balance point quick smart. Hence some people prefer to clutch. Personally, I feel that clutching is hard on the clutch and drivertrain.

Fuel economy sounds right, 1000cc bikes are more fuel efficient than the 600's are because they are less 'revvy'.

De-restricting, I have personally never done. however a few of my mates have. Do a google search for more info. Basically, my understanding is that you will have the throttle body set up so that both butterfly's open uniformly so that the engine can deliver more power earlier. Have a word to someone like Botany Honda or such, or ask the question of the boys in the racing sub-section of these forums...it will be a standard mod for them.

Slipper clutches are designed to minimise loss of traction of the rear wheel under high engine loads such as down shifting. Ever had that feeling where you are breaking hard and you shift down a gear or a gear too many and the rear wheel locks and the swing arm starts bouncing? This is primarily what A slipper clutch is designed to eliminate. It 'slips' the clutch while it engages the flywheel.

[buddieb ktm master]

a honda cb400 restricted to33bhp to the superduke,and i am still here,just spend a bit of time getting used to it and all will be fine!!

[morayfm]

It's all about attitude and not doing anything stupid really. Before I got back into riding after more than 30 years, I used to ride a RD250. Then last year when the price of petrol kept going up I decided to buy a scooter to commute. After talking to lots of scooter riders I was convinced that the Vespa 250 would handle my 42km each way commute (including 10km motorway) - WRONG. Whilst the power was OK, it was just far too light to handle the wind and trucks on the motorway. But what it did do was remind me of how much fun it is to be on a bike. So I decided to go all out and bought the ST1300 and have no regrets. I've done over 3000kms on it now with no problems but I respect the bike and do not ride it beyond my abilities. One interesting thing - it's actually easier to filter on the motorway when the traffic is stationary (like last week when the truck flipped) than it is on the Vespa. Even though it is a much bigger bike, the mirrors are much lower than the Vespa's and in really small gaps they "fit" under the mirrors on the cages. The Vespa's mirrors are really wide and high. I'm still learning about the bike and what both it and I can do when riding but as I said the important thing is to be bloody careful and don't ride above your experience level.

[Gremlin]

It sounds obvious to me, but I should probably point it out for bladeslapper... I hope you aren't trying to do power wheelies from first on a thou... not recommended. If you want to do power wheelies, start in 2nd, probably around 100kph ish should do, shut, snap open, should get the weight shifting around nicely, and up she will come.

Brett... you just need a nice euro brand bike. It gets plugged into the computers, new fuel map into the oem ecu, and it de-restricts the first 3 gears. Now, you'd have to be an idiot not to get it up to balance point... pity 1st is a bit short compared to sportsbikes... :clap:

[Bladeslapper109]

Good one you for getting into biking after retirement. Life in the old dog yet.



Can't let this go ... try 210kgs and 80hp+ ... sorry, felt me manhood challenged there ...



Ho hum. I guess this is why there are lot of discussion on maturity in this thread ...

80hp at the fly 21 years ago.. lol

[Bladeslapper109]

It sounds obvious to me, but I should probably point it out for bladeslapper... I hope you aren't trying to do power wheelies from first on a thou... not recommended. If you want to do power wheelies, start in 2nd, probably around 100kph ish should do, shut, snap open, should get the weight shifting around nicely, and up she will come.

Brett... you just need a nice euro brand bike. It gets plugged into the computers, new fuel map into the oem ecu, and it de-restricts the first 3 gears. Now, you'd have to be an idiot not to get it up to balance point... pity 1st is a bit short compared to sportsbikes... :clap:

Na I have tried everything in 2nd snapping full open and it wont pull.
Anyone actually have a cbr 1000 rr fireblade here?

[BigOne]

Sky-hi, to lend you my experience- I came back to biking after 20 years, at 45.
I bought an Sv650, rode it for nearly 7 years, and then moved on to a GSX1400. I loved the SV's lightness and handling, in fact the suspension is not up to much, but I improved this with an Ohlins shock and Racetech fork emulators. Eventually, I binned it, but it wasn't the bike's fault. Hot tar.
I love the 1400, it 's got torque for Africa, in hindsight I should have sold the SV and bought the 1400 a year or two ago.
With bigger/heavier/more powerful bikes, you have to think further ahead, plan more, and more than anything, don't outride your ability.

[lostinflyz]

Na I have tried everything in 2nd snapping full open and it wont pull.
Anyone actually have a cbr 1000 rr fireblade here?

if you've got a 1000rr and snap it in 2nd she'll damn well come up. unless its fucked or you holding yourself way up over the front (and i mean waaaayyyy up over the front)

ive just got me a 954 and snap that open from shut taps in the power band and itll go all sorts of ape shit

[lostinflyz]

and for your info a slipper clutch is to limit back torque. i.e. when you downshift the motor stops making your rear wheel want to propel you toward the horizon and decides its better if it tries to stop the bike immediatly and propel solely you towards the horizon.

This is commonly felt on a race track (you've gotta have a pretty sizeable size of testicles/ fucking idiot to notice on the road) when you reach the end of the straight and try banging your 1000cc bike down the box, It'll decide to jump and bounce all over the show esp. if your not used to a big bike down shifting down gears. but it has no influence on throttle torque as it only limits torque in a single direction, that being torque going back into the motor, not from the motor.

[Brett]

It sounds obvious to me, but I should probably point it out for bladeslapper... I hope you aren't trying to do power wheelies from first on a thou... not recommended. If you want to do power wheelies, start in 2nd, probably around 100kph ish should do, shut, snap open, should get the weight shifting around nicely, and up she will come.

Brett... you just need a nice euro brand bike. It gets plugged into the computers, new fuel map into the oem ecu, and it de-restricts the first 3 gears. Now, you'd have to be an idiot not to get it up to balance point... pity 1st is a bit short compared to sportsbikes... :clap:

I was really impressed with you bikes, even just from that one little squirt I had on it back in November of last year...very nice machine. Not sure I will keep the sportsbike thing going (road riding) and would be much more interested in something like your bike.

[Brett]

and for your info a slipper clutch is to limit back torque. i.e. when you downshift the motor stops making your rear wheel want to propel you toward the horizon and decides its better if it tries to stop the bike immediatly and propel solely you towards the horizon.

This is commonly felt on a race track (you've gotta have a pretty sizeable size of testicles/ fucking idiot to notice on the road) when you reach the end of the straight and try banging your 1000cc bike down the box, It'll decide to jump and bounce all over the show esp. if your not used to a big bike down shifting down gears. but it has no influence on throttle torque as it only limits torque in a single direction, that being torque going back into the motor, not from the motor.

Agreed. I suppose the inverse to a slipper clutch would be traction control.

[LBD]

DO you think a 1000cc bike is "too much" for someone as their first "big" bike (ie, first bike on a full license)


YES


That would be the measured distance between the begining of said piece of string and the end of said piece of string.


In a straight line or in a circle...if you fold the universe in on itself....Relativity, length depends on the position of the observer in relation to the observed...:wacko:

[Bladeslapper109]

if you've got a 1000rr and snap it in 2nd she'll damn well come up. unless its fucked or you holding yourself way up over the front (and i mean waaaayyyy up over the front)

ive just got me a 954 and snap that open from shut taps in the power band and itll go all sorts of ape shit

Well its not fucked it rides and engines goes lovely. but I expected it to pull up easy like you have just explained but it is not like that at all.

Dont know why its under powered

[davebullet]

Not sure I caught why you want a 1000cc motorcycle. Are you worried you'll outgrow a lesser capacity machine? Is there a power or torque target you have in mind?

For me - the SV650 with 70hp at the crank is more than enough to do the commuter job. It pulls away easily and safely when you need to overtake. It is light and nimble enough compared to my VTR250 (not a lot of difference) = quicker turn in and not the extra planning required as mentioned by the guy above with the 1400. Also nimbleness helps whe parking or moving the thing around / backing when commuting.

In my opinion you'd have more fun and be better off spending less money on a smaller bike (ie. 600 or so) then spend the rest you would have spent on the thou' with suspension upgrades on the 600.

Dave.

[Hitcher]

Mid-size bikes seriously rock (said he who has recently moved from a 1300 to a 750).

[325rocket]

Well its not fucked it rides and engines goes lovely. but I expected it to pull up easy like you have just explained but it is not like that at all.

Dont know why its under powered


no offense but i think the problem might be nut size. my 600 will power wheelie in 2nd so your 1000 shouldnt have a problem.

[Bladeslapper109]

no offense but i think the problem might be nut size. my 600 will power wheelie in 2nd so your 1000 shouldnt have a problem.

dont get what you mean by nut size. I give that bike everything its got.

Got it up today is second but took a lot of work.
Im sure it should be much easier.

Do vavle clearances change much by the 24K service time

[Bladeslapper109]

I think my wheelie problem in higher gears is the gearing.
Didnt even think about it till the old man reminded me.

Got about 39 on the back which i think is 41 standard and gets higher on the 06 model.

Will change them next time round and see how much difference it makes

[madbikeboy]

Or you could buy a GSXR1000 and wheelstand off the gas in any of the first 3 gears. Have you been filling your front tire with concrete or lead?

The front on a modern 1000 sports will rise faster than ICBM - I think there's a pilot issue, sir.

[Weta]

Yeah I'd tread carefully, especially if ur doing a commute. I recently swapped my SV1000 for a Gsxr1000 and find the Gixer almost friendlier in traffic, the Vtwin power while torquey is quite lumpy at low speeds, meaning a little too much throttle and it lurches( a bit). If you're light fisted the inline fours really smooth. I'd go a 600 first, maybe a monster Duc if u like the Italian. aprilla's are a thing of beauty. good luck - be safe.

[Bladeslapper109]

Or you could buy a GSXR1000 and wheelstand off the gas in any of the first 3 gears. Have you been filling your front tire with concrete or lead?

The front on a modern 1000 sports will rise faster than ICBM - I think there's a pilot issue, sir.

Where is the skill required in snapping throttle to full. it will not lift.

[Bladeslapper109]

Is it possible to register a 600 mistakingly as a 1000?

[Squid69]

Is it possible to register a 600 mistakingly as a 1000?

my mates 05 cbr 600 lifted easily in 2nd and with a bit of coaxing it would lift in 3rd.

your timing is out!
(nono not engine timing, your eye, brain hand, throttle timing.)

[madbikeboy]

Where is the skill required in snapping throttle to full. it will not lift.

On a GSXR, there is no need to snap the throttle, just pull it open, then lean back.

You can do the same on scooters. Power isn't the issue.

[Newblade]

if you've got a 1000rr and snap it in 2nd she'll damn well come up. unless its fucked or you holding yourself way up over the front (and i mean waaaayyyy up over the front)

Amen to that

ive just got me a 954 and snap that open from shut taps in the power band and itll go all sorts of ape shit

Lmao


dont get what you mean by nut size. I give that bike everything its got.

Got it up today is second but took a lot of work.
Im sure it should be much easier.

Do vavle clearances change much by the 24K service time

Again lmao


Is it possible to register a 600 mistakingly as a 1000?

Catch up


On a GSXR, there is no need to snap the throttle, just pull it open, then lean back.

You can do the same on scooters. Power isn't the issue.

Experience or the lack of it says it all>

You sure you are talking about an 05 not a 95 blade.

Slipper clutch 05?????
Not done 24k FFS ride the thing as its meant to be ridden.

My 07 Blade purchased with 0.5kms on clock 8 mths ago has done 14500kms

Wanna be a wheelie king by a big trailie!

[Bladeslapper109]

What the fuck are you on about.

Apparently the 05 has a slipper clutch.
Where did you get 24K from?

[Bladeslapper109]

my mates 05 cbr 600 lifted easily in 2nd and with a bit of coaxing it would lift in 3rd.

your timing is out!
(nono not engine timing, your eye, brain hand, throttle timing.)

Nah you guys dont ride it so you dont know. I know for a fact it should pop up easily. I pull many wheelies in first and many wheelies on a trail bike so I know how to wheelie. Its not putting out the power properly and when i find out why ill be sure to let you goons know

[Bladeslapper109]

The problem with my bike is its geared way to high. Had a very experienced racer take it for a blast and basically said everything I presumed.

Lacking major tourque and will lift in second with work.

Not a chance in 3rd.
Gear less on the front. couple more on the back should make all the difference

What :doobey: gave me bad rep.... now i cant play acade games when im bored :mad:

[Bladeslapper109]

Lmao



Again lmao



Catch up



Experience or the lack of it says it all>

You sure you are talking about an 05 not a 95 blade.

Slipper clutch 05?????
Not done 24k FFS ride the thing as its meant to be ridden.

My 07 Blade purchased with 0.5kms on clock 8 mths ago has done 14500kms

Wanna be a wheelie king by a big trailie!


Yea you were right. 05 dont have slipper clutch..

14500 / 8 months = 1812 kms a month
3000 / 0.75 months = 4000kms a month

Basically says i do over twice as much riding as you do. :Pokey:

[Jox]

WTF, some kinda bullshit going on here...

are u asking if you may have been sold a 600 (Baby Blade) instead of a thou.

[Jox]

Is it possible to register a 600 mistakingly as a 1000?

WTF, some kinda bullshit going on here...

are u asking if you may have been sold a 600 (Baby Blade) instead of a thou.

[Bladeslapper109]

WTF, some kinda bullshit going on here...

are u asking if you may have been sold a 600 (Baby Blade) instead of a thou.

have you ever riden an 04/05 blade??

The gearing is too high as it is standard and have found it is geared another tooth higher... They are nothing like a ZX10 which seem full blown wheelie material...

Im guessing no one who posted here had ever riden an 05 blade ethier judging by the comments. I asked for any ideas and if anyone had any clue gearing should of been one of the first suggestions..

[crazyhorse]

DO you think a 1000cc bike is "too much" for someone as their first "big" bike (ie, first bike on a full license)

I know it would depend partly on the attitude of the rider and where and how they ride etc. but in general terms? For a sensible rider that's been riding for a fair few years and just gotten around to getting a full. Not a child either, over 30 years of age that values their life over impressing other motorists.

to use for a daily auckland commute as well as longer weekend rides.

Hell yes - regardless of age - I believe you should step up gradually. You wouldn't have gone from crawling to running as a tot, would you - so get an in between bike (plenty of good ones out there) and learn how to enjoy different levels of biking. Have fun

[one fast tl1ooo]

Hell yes - regardless of age - I believe you should step up gradually. You wouldn't have gone from crawling to running as a tot, would you - so get an in between bike (plenty of good ones out there) and learn how to enjoy different levels of biking. Have fun

Year wat crazynag said. lol