Fu%k this I want my flag back.

[98tls]

Wouldnt it be cheaper to dance to a different tune?http://www.stuff.co.nz/4843777a11.html

[imdying]

So let me get this straight, this is a never ending system right?

[H00dz]

Hmmm didnt even know this was happening......bet the composer of twinkle twinkle star wished he known about this....just imagine the payout he'd be entitled to:whistle:

[JMemonic]

Hmmm didnt even know this was happening......bet the composer of twinkle twinkle star wished he known about this....just imagine the payout he'd be entitled to:whistle:

Apart from he is dead but the owner of the copyright to happy birthday well he has enough money thankfully.

[H00dz]

Apart from he is dead but the owner of the copyright to happy birthday well he has enough money thankfully.

Hmmmm is that right maybe I could put a claim in under the Waitangi tribunal on his behalf LOLZ

I could do with some new tyres for the FJ.....

[98tls]

So let me get this straight, this is a never ending system right? Not sure but will ask next time i am down the welfare.Working on a way to connect being a New Zealander and them paying for a couple of trick cylinders from the states.

[Wingnut]

Even though this country is heading into a recession - a few hundred million still gets spent on this??? Guess it could be classed as a injection into the economy?

Jesus - what do they do with all the money they have been paid over the years from claims on the treaty? It really is alot of cash - does it go to the ones that really need support - I doubt it. And when will this financial reperation end, surely it has to at some stage???

[Blossom]

So let me get this straight, this is a never ending system right?

No its not. Personally not my area of interest but my bil works in that area and he keeps telling me that it will all be finished and over in 2010. The cases referred to have been in negotiation for years and years. There was a cut off for applications last year (I think?) So they cant make any more claims now.
I guess we will see.

[ckai]

Even though this country is heading into a recession - a few hundred million still gets spent on this??? Guess it could be classed as a injection into the economy?

Jesus - what do they do with all the money they have been paid over the years from claims on the treaty? It really is alot of cash - does it go to the ones that really need support - I doubt it. And when will this financial reperation end, surely it has to at some stage???

I was thinking the same thing. Think of how much money NZ would be saving when it stops. Yay new roads! Hey look - there's goes a pig by that cloud.


No its not. Personally not my area of interest but my bil works in that area and he keeps telling me that it will all be finished and over in 2010. The cases referred to have been in negotiation for years and years. There was a cut off for applications last year (I think?) So they cant make any more claims now.
I guess we will see.

You're right about the deadline. Last year they had to have all claims in. Problem is that they can be altered after this so heaps of tribes were throwing in rubbish just to get in on time.

I have to admit, some of the claims have been totally understandable but some...shit they really don't want people to like them do they?

[Wingnut]

Yay new roads!

Not new roads - just fix what we have. It would suck if there was a long straight multi laned highway everwhere. Good for cars - a bit gay for bikes!
Anyway - off track a bit here.

A deadline for the end of all claims you say - hope so!

[Hans]

That's fine. I won't be fucking chanting it. Can you picture me?
Ta mate, ta mate,
Here is the man that made your moolah disappear, stick it, sunshine.
Hope that rhymes.

[Okey Dokey]

There is a deadline for getting claims in. An early settlement, however, for Ngai Tahu in the S Island contained a clause that their settlement would be "revisited" in the event that the overall compensation to Maori exceeded a certain amount. They will want more to retain proportionality or something...

My understanding is that this clause will almost certainly be activated, and I imagine it is contained in other tribe's settlements as well.

[bull]

Surely if anyone is at fault here for any ridiculous claims it must be the NZ Govt, let me elaborate - surely to get a claim in their will be a process involved with lots of policy and tickboxes all designed by the Govt. So if a rediculous claim manages to get through all the hoops to the Govt table then i say well done - either the claim is good or the Govt setup of the process is a joke - You choose.

And as for the we are in a recession but we are still paying out millions, get a grip, how about we all take huge paycuts and pay more tax to help out the country - oh thats right then we would be the ones not getting our dues and we would complain.

The claims are compensation for past wrongs and are owed to the various iwi. And i would guess that the payouts pale in comparison to how much $$$ the Govt has earned from land over the however many years they have held them illegally - bit like, i take your bike and lease it out for 10 years making $52000 then you finally succeed in claiming to have the bike back, i say well ill give you $10000 and half the bike - Who wins?

I was told by a Dutchman once that the Maori need to get over it and move on. I asked him then if his house and land was taken by force or by Govt decree how would he feel about it and would he be keen to just accept it and move on - his answer was silence.

I know its a passionate rant, but im over the whole - the maori are ripping off the country buzz - they are getting whats due.

Guess its time to burn me for a differing opinion.

[Quasievil]

Guess its time to burn me for a differing opinion.

No, cause youre right, and what most people dont understand is it isnt just settled in cash, its settled on mostly assets which are largely those that was scammed from the iwi in the first place.

Im over the whole "Fuck the Maori" and the racist crap that tows along with it, as a nation we should be fucken proud that we are addressing the wrongs and are moving ahead instead of saying "sorry" and putting the problem in a drawer labelled "to hard and fuck em anyway" or the drawer which most of the above members think it belongs entitled "fucken Maori bluggers dont deserve anything"

So in as basic a way of saying it people "get over it"

[nodrog]

i want my blankets and kfc back

[imdying]

No, the NZ govt is not to blame, the English one is... if they'd done the job correctly in the first place, there wouldn't be any Maoris to make claims.

[MisterD]

No, cause youre right, and what most people dont understand is it isnt just settled in cash, its settled on mostly assets which are largely those that was scammed from the iwi in the first place.

Except that this agreement appears to drive a bus through established copyright law as regards Te Whatshisface. Under our law, copyright lasts for the lifetime of the copyright owner plus 50 years so "The Haka" passed into public domain in 1899. It doesn't belong to the government to be able to give it to Ngati Toa.

[Wingnut]

Whos getting whats due????

You are naive to believe that this "settlement money" gets diversified across all of those that are entitled to it.

I have little issue with the treaty - but some what have my doubts that these funds are being put to good use for those who really need it. I hope I am wrong.

As for how much the government has earned on the land that was taken, surely a significant portion has been returned to those who have been dis advantaged by means of many different benefits, claims, education etc etc.

Before you start chanting racist......... Think again, I am a realist. This is supposed to be 1 country, 1 people. It time we all tryed to settle up and move on in a positive direction.

These huge $$$$ payouts could go a long way to improving the education and health problems that face all NZers. There you go - my targets up take a shot.

[Quasievil]

I never said that its not full of issues, as it is.....and was always going to be

And no (was it wingnut) I dont think the bennifit does go through to those that should be entitled to it youre right.

For example, Tainui got a huge payout, included was a significant number of Housing NZ houses in Ngruawhahia and Huntly........guess what they did?? they put the rentals up to Market rates, this was significantly higher than the HC rates and it caused all soughts of issues.

So in a nutshell, Im happy e are soughting it and not turning our backs on the issue, but Im not entirley happy with all the issues it has developed.....But I sure dont have the answers

[Quasievil]

if they'd done the job correctly in the first place, there wouldn't be any Maoris to make claims.

Mate thats harsh.......they werent able to win all of the wars as the English where out smarted on to many battlefields, the english actually got their arses kicked on many occasions, the maori where a bit smarter than the Aboringinies by a long shot and where good at the ole killing game

[imdying]

Yeah, they got their arses kicked a few times, but only because they arrived 50 years too late. If they'd been here sooner it still would've been socially accpetable to put them all to the sword, which in hindsight, should've been done.

[Quasievil]

Yeah, they got their arses kicked a few times, but only because they arrived 50 years too late. If they'd been here sooner it still would've been socially accpetable to put them all to the sword, which in hindsight, should've been done.

If they turned up with just swords mate it wouldnt have been the Maori who would have lost.... it would have been a mass slaughter of pommy gits

[imdying]

Ok, 'they should've shot all the niggers in the face'... if that makes it easier to understand?

[oldrider]

So let me get this straight, this is a never ending system right?

That's where big Arnie got the phrase from. "I will be back"

They will be claiming royalties of him next!

They are welcome to their Haka, I am so bloody "over it" :eek5: John.

[Quasievil]

Ok, 'they should've shot all the niggers in the face'... if that makes it easier to understand?


LOL nah I got ya the first time...........but that would mean there would be no Quasi, then where would the world be ?

Actually dont answer that.

[bull]

Whos getting whats due????

You are naive to believe that this "settlement money" gets diversified across all of those that are entitled to it.

I have little issue with the treaty - but some what have my doubts that these funds are being put to good use for those who really need it. I hope I am wrong.

Nope not naive, i agree its probally not being shared where needed but what would there be to share if no claim was brought in to start with? and tell me how the NZ Govt is benefitting all the population of NZ with how the tax money is spent, our health systems are very poor and the education is not much better either. Seems the whole country is failing not just the Maori.


As for how much the government has earned on the land that was taken, surely a significant portion has been returned to those who have been dis advantaged by means of many different benefits, claims, education etc etc.

I for one would be very unhappy if i worked for 40hrs a week and got paid a significant portion(30hrs) and told that the rest is available as grants and benefits. Why not just pay me the whole lot then i can choose what id like to spend the rest on rather than waiting till i need to access the grant or benefits system.


Before you start chanting racist......... Think again, I am a realist. This is supposed to be 1 country, 1 people. It time we all tryed to settle up and move on in a positive direction.

Mate im not chanting racist at all in fact im actually a realist too - i totally agree with the 1 nation 1 people concept but theres no way the treaty claims can be swept away and just move on. It would seem the instigators of the 1 nation 1 people buzz are the govt whom dont want to give back what they have taken. What we have here in NZ is 1 nation 2 people and it would be a shame to lose either of the peoples identities - it makes us a unique country.


These huge $$$$ payouts could go a long way to improving the education and health problems that face all NZers. There you go - my targets up take a shot.

From the profit they are making off the confiscated lands etc they should have more than enough money to cover the settlements and shouldnt be from the tax money at all.

Which raises another question.

If NZ Govt uses money from confiscated lands to add to the tax coffers then that would be a heap of $$$ making Maori probally the biggest tax contributors to NZ and somehow this would make Maori known as the bludgers?

Hrmm..... ponder it.

[imdying]

LOL nah I got ya the first time...........but that would mean there would be no Quasi, then where would the world be ?

Actually dont answer that.Hahahah, I'm not saying they should go and carry it out now, I'm just saying I don't blame the NZ government for what they're doing, I blame the English government for the sad arse way they took over the country... bit like the yanks in the middle east; if something is worth going to war over, then have a bloody war, not this bullshit limited war crap we get these days. If the arabs were such a bloody problem, then they should've turned the place to glass, I mean they've messed the country up enough anyway.

[Wingnut]

I just dont want my children and my childrens children to have to be paying towards something that should be sorted now! Thats the reality as I see it.

FFS - I would prefer we get into a bit more debt and pay out good and proper once and for all.

We all talk how the Maori are disadvantaged due to the confiscation of land. This is true to a certain extent. But what about the generations after generations of New Zealanders, that continually has to pay large amounts of tax to see it allocated for more and more claim settlements. Are they/we not dis advantaged to a certain extent also?

[Quasievil]

Hahahah, I'm not saying they should go and carry it out now, I'm just saying I don't blame the NZ government for what they're doing, I blame the English government for the sad arse way they took over the country...

The English had no choice it was a truce with the Maori not a victory over them, the NZ government is part of the commonwealth, the Queen (in England) is still the queen of NZ and is our monarch, we are still part of the same machine that established the issues in the first place, ie the NZ government is an extension from the english, we even have a English appointed* Governor ................unless we became a republic and I didnt get told about it.



*Technically

[skidMark]

Hmmmm and the birth tans wonder why we get pissed off...

They either hold you to the treaty or with a weapon.

[bull]

I just dont want my children and my childrens children to have to be paying towards something that should be sorted now! Thats the reality as I see it.

FFS - I would prefer we get into a bit more debt and pay out good and proper once and for all.

We all talk how the Maori are disadvantaged due to the confiscation of land. This is true to a certain extent. But what about the generations after generations of New Zealanders, that continually has to pay large amounts of tax to see it allocated for more and more claim settlements. Are they/we not dis advantaged to a certain extent also?

I agree with your comments there Wnut about the children having to pay it off etc - but the, are we not disadvantaged also comment - well sorry that if you do something in the past it comes back to haunt you, its how life works, bit like a criminal record i suppose.

Financially my point is that the money should be more than plentiful to pay these settlements as the money from confiscated lands is providing an income to the Govt to begin with - unless they add it to the taxes, with which then - Refer to the biggest contributors to tax theory.

[imdying]

I agree with your comments there Wnut about the children having to pay it off etc - but the, are we not disadvantaged also comment - well sorry that if you do something in the past it comes back to haunt you, its how life works, bit like a criminal record i suppose.So now merely being born white is (like) a crime? Fuck that, I didn't do anything, I'm paying why again?

[Quasievil]

So now merely being born white is (like) a crime? Fuck that, I didn't do anything, I'm paying why again?

No, but your comment "So now merely being born white is (like) a crime?" is fairly typical ofalot of Kiwis on a "bandwagon mentality" which unfortunetly encourages seperation as opposed to a "one nation one people future" You could say that globally there is realignment of long standing and deep predjudices between races on both sides...........to consider the side you promote ie "rednecks" or "ignorant" you kinda take this "realignment" badly........BOO fucking HOO, get over it and learn to positively change attitude's so this country can actually be a better place to live in as opposed to draggin it backwards by suggesting that All Maori should have been shot, which is unproductive to this country therefore IS Anti Kiwi and is Anti New Zealand,
And in closing if you think the English are so great with domestic policey matters past and present perhaps you could live there, Im sure you will love the ethnic groups that reside in complete disharmony.

In New Zealand we and you should be proud that matters are being addressed and can be addressed so we can have a positive future, most countries of the world wont and dont and are largely fucked as a consequence..........is that what you advocate as NZs future?
Not me, Im in here for the longhaul and with the issues on the table (as opposed to a cupboard) it can only become better, but only with the positive attitude of NZrs as a whole.

On your avatar you embrace Micky mouse etc........how about embracing all of your fellow Kiwis.

Said all with complete love of course

[imdying]

Ah huh, and this addressing the issues... how long's that gonna take, and who gets to say when it's completed? I reckon it's about run it's course.

[Quasievil]

Ah huh, and this addressing the issues... how long's that gonna take, and who gets to say when it's completed? I reckon it's about run it's course.

I reckon it has to............well almost.

A few attitude changes on both sides would speed it up to I think eh.

[avgas]

people looking for winja and zed????????
cannibal soldiers claim magic dance?????
mormons go to the track?????
what the hell did i miss? the second coming?