Tiresome DR vs KLR comparisons

[Tony W]

KLR650 / DR650 comparisons are not "apples with apples" comparisons.

The DR 650 is a 1980s(?) design, simple air cooled trailbike.

The KLR 650 is a heavier, water cooled, road orientated, dubiously styled...?bike.

The XF 650 (an underrated bike) should be compared to the KLR 650.

The DR 650, to the KLX 650.


...right then... anoraks on....let battle commence ...!!!

[hospitalfood]

just sold my KLR 650. did not fall in love with it.

[Motu]

I always considered the XT600E superior to either....

[paturoa]

...right then... anoraks on....

is it finally raining down your way?

[JATZ]

OOOOOOOOOH.

this is gunna be gooood ( and probly funny too)

[Paladin]

OOOOOOOOOH.

this is gunna be gooood ( and probly funny too)

Yeah am still waiting for you DR owners to comment on Marks' "the DR is a (very) poor mans 690E/640E" quote on the other thread!!! :msn-wink:

[NordieBoy]

KLR650 / DR650 comparisons are not "apples with apples" comparisons.

The DR 650 is a 1980s(?) design, simple air cooled trailbike.

The KLR 650 is a heavier, water cooled, road orientated, dubiously styled...?bike.

The XF 650 (an underrated bike) should be compared to the KLR 650.

The DR 650, to the KLX 650.


...right then... anoraks on....let battle commence ...!!!

Fluro anorak is on...

But my anorak don't know how to get rid of all this whitespace dammit...

<TABLE CELLSPACING=1 BORDER=1>
<TR>
<TD><BR></TD>
<TD><B>08 KLR650</B></TD>
<TD><B>KLX650</B></TD>
<TD><B>KLE500</B></TD>
<TD><B>>96 DR650</B></TD>
<TD><B>XF650</B></TD>
<TD><B>DRZ400</B></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><B>Dirtability</B></TD>
<TD>5</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>3</TD>
<TD>6</TD>
<TD>4</TD>
<TD>9</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><B>Gravelability</B></TD>
<TD>6</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>5</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>5</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><B>Roadability</B></TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>5</TD>
<TD>9</TD>
<TD>7</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>5</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><B>Seated Comfort</B></TD>
<TD>7</TD>
<TD>5</TD>
<TD>7</TD>
<TD>4</TD>
<TD>7</TD>
<TD>3</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><B>Standing Comfort</B></TD>
<TD>5</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>4</TD>
<TD>6</TD>
<TD>4</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><B>Range</B></TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>5</TD>
<TD>7</TD>
<TD>6</TD>
<TD>7</TD>
<TD>4</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><B>Robustness</B></TD>
<TD>5</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>4</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>6</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><B>Maintainability</B></TD>
<TD>6</TD>
<TD>7</TD>
<TD>5</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>7</TD>
<TD>7</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><B>Farkleability</B></TD>
<TD>7</TD>
<TD>6</TD>
<TD>4</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>4</TD>
<TD>6</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><b>Adventurability</b></TD>
<TD><B>57</B></TD>
<TD><B>60</B></TD>
<TD><B>48</B></TD>
<TD><B>61</B></TD>
<TD><B>52</B></TD>
<TD><B>58</B></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>

[Tony W]

Jeez, Nordie. Looks like those bikes love the wide open spaces.....!!!!????

[Paladin]

That's that decided then - Nordie gets the "Anorak of the Year Award" for that table! :clap:

I wonder what Marks' table would look like in comparison??????????

[Woodman]

You wait, with the impending economic crisis the KLR will rise to the top. No need for farkles as its all there in the original price.

[Padmei]

FFS




ten characters

[GaZBur]

Yeah am still waiting for you DR owners to comment on Marks' "the DR is a (very) poor mans 690E/640E" quote on the other thread!!! :msn-wink:
Very poor man? You talking to me specifically or DR riders in general.
I would love to race a 690 if only they didn't cost 3 times what I paid for my DR.
DR's are great for us very poor men/women.

[junkmanjoe]

well i went fron an 91 xr600r to a 2007 dr650,
over all an very happy the dr proformance, would like a little more height, has good weight and is fairly easy to throw around the bush tracks, and town.
for the price i feel i got a good deal.

[Taz]

I also would vote for the XT600E. But if were talking about bikes you can currently buy new I'd get a DR650 and put a big tank on it.

[pete376403]

I'd guess that chart was created by a DR rider. A few revisions might be in order.
Farkleability DR 8? No way replacing broken gearboxes counts as a farkle
Range DR 6? No again, should be about 4. The DR (standard tank) runs out of gas before you get into third gear (at which point it's necessary to rebuild the gearbox, see above)
Roadability DR 7? And no yet again, should be about 4 as well; the vinyl crucifix (aka the seat) is the primary reason the tank is so small, they figured the riders would want (nay, NEED) to get off about the time the tank runs out. (Anyway, they'd have to - there's a gearbox to rebuild.)

[Taz]

I'd guess that chart was created by a DR rider. A few revisions might be in order.
Farkleability DR 8? No way replacing broken gearboxes counts as a farkle
Range DR 6? No again, should be about 4. The DR (standard tank) runs out of gas before you get into third gear (at which point it's necessary to rebuild the gearbox, see above)
Roadability DR 7? And no yet again, should be about 4 as well; the vinyl crucifix (aka the seat) is the primary reason the tank is so small, they figured the riders would want (nay, NEED) to get off about the time the tank runs out. (Anyway, they'd have to - there's a gearbox to rebuild.)

I'd guess this post was created by a KLR owner :lol:

[JATZ]

I'd guess that chart was created by a DR rider. A few revisions might be in order.
Farkleability DR 8? No way replacing broken gearboxes counts as a farkle
Range DR 6? No again, should be about 4. The DR (standard tank) runs out of gas before you get into third gear (at which point it's necessary to rebuild the gearbox, see above)
Roadability DR 7? And no yet again, should be about 4 as well; the vinyl crucifix (aka the seat) is the primary reason the tank is so small, they figured the riders would want (nay, NEED) to get off about the time the tank runs out. (Anyway, they'd have to - there's a gearbox to rebuild.)

Suzuki engineering at it's best.

Y'see it all works together. Fuel up bike, go riding,run out of gas, but it's o'k 'cause you were gunna get off to give ya arse a rest, while ya resting re-build gearbox.

Brilliant :2thumbsup: :rofl:

[Transalper]

Got to admit pete376403 made me laugh. Very entertaining.
Unfortunately I messed up, with the big tank installed and modified seat I wasn't ready to stop when my gearbox blew up anyway. :doh:

[Oscar]

KLR650 / DR650 comparisons are not "apples with apples" comparisons.

The DR 650 is a 1980s(?) design, simple air cooled trailbike.

The KLR 650 is a heavier, water cooled, road orientated, dubiously styled...?bike.

The XF 650 (an underrated bike) should be compared to the KLR 650.

The DR 650, to the KLX 650.


...right then... anoraks on....let battle commence ...!!!

DR & KLR are in the same class - Adv bikes fer cheap cahnts class...:bleh:

[warewolf]

That's that decided then - Nordie gets the "Anorak of the Year Award" for that table! :clap:Shit... and it's only just February.

Well done that man!!

[Oscar]

That's that decided then - Nordie gets the "Anorak of the Year Award" for that table! :clap:

I wonder what Marks' table would look like in comparison??????????

I disagree.
Anyone who starts a thread about how not to compare KLR's and DR's is an überanorak:laugh:

[Paladin]

I disagree.
Anyone who starts a thread about how not to compare KLR's and DR's is an überanorak:laugh:


OOh you may have a point there! :blink:

[Paladin]

I'd guess that chart was created by a DR rider. A few revisions might be in order.
Farkleability DR 8? No way replacing broken gearboxes counts as a farkle
Range DR 6? No again, should be about 4. The DR (standard tank) runs out of gas before you get into third gear (at which point it's necessary to rebuild the gearbox, see above)
Roadability DR 7? And no yet again, should be about 4 as well; the vinyl crucifix (aka the seat) is the primary reason the tank is so small, they figured the riders would want (nay, NEED) to get off about the time the tank runs out. (Anyway, they'd have to - there's a gearbox to rebuild.)


I forgot to say...........




BRILLIANT - LMAO!!!!! ;)

[RedKLR650]

I'd guess that chart was created by a DR rider. A few revisions might be in order.
Farkleability DR 8? No way replacing broken gearboxes counts as a farkle
Range DR 6? No again, should be about 4. The DR (standard tank) runs out of gas before you get into third gear (at which point it's necessary to rebuild the gearbox, see above)
Roadability DR 7? And no yet again, should be about 4 as well; the vinyl crucifix (aka the seat) is the primary reason the tank is so small, they figured the riders would want (nay, NEED) to get off about the time the tank runs out. (Anyway, they'd have to - there's a gearbox to rebuild.)

I don't personally I don't know of any DR owners with gearbox problems, but know quite a few DR owners, and those that ride them love them, just as I love my old style KLR :banana:

They complain about the seat and short range fuel tank on their bikes, and I complain about the weight when I'm trying to negotiate the KLR up a slippery clay track, but both are great low cost adventure bikes, each targeted at a different type on consumer :2thumbsup

and as for reliability, I'd like to think they're about even.......

I am glad for the KLR's seat though, as tomorrow I leave for Christchurch ready to depart 6am saturday morning on the 2000+ km road ride this weekend, ( see the www.tt2000.org (http://www.tt2000.org) site )

I'll let you know how numb my bum feels by monday...... :buggerd:

Cheers, Stu :beer:

[NordieBoy]

I'd guess that chart was created by a DR rider. A few revisions might be in order.
Farkleability DR 8? No way replacing broken gearboxes counts as a farkle
Range DR 6? No again, should be about 4. The DR (standard tank) runs out of gas before you get into third gear (at which point it's necessary to rebuild the gearbox, see above)
Roadability DR 7? And no yet again, should be about 4 as well; the vinyl crucifix (aka the seat) is the primary reason the tank is so small, they figured the riders would want (nay, NEED) to get off about the time the tank runs out. (Anyway, they'd have to - there's a gearbox to rebuild.)
:second:

Farkleability - Availability of aftermarket farkles. Tank for KLR?

Range - 250odd km is ok - not great but more than enough for the longest Dusty Butt section hence a 6. A DRZ would get a 4.

Roadability - Ability on the road. The DR is let down by the seat and lack of stock screen. But is still geared ok and stable on the road.


I've never re-bulit my gearbox? Dunno what you're talking about. < cough > Dohicky < /cough>

:niceone:

[NordieBoy]

Yeah am still waiting for you DR owners to comment on Marks' "the DR is a (very) poor mans 690E/640E" quote on the other thread!!! :msn-wink:

I'd agree with him :D

[MXNUT]

Fluro anorak is on...

But my anorak don't know how to get rid of all this whitespace dammit...

<TABLE CELLSPACING=1 BORDER=1>
<TR>
<TD><BR></TD>
<TD><B>KLR650</B></TD>
<TD><B>KLX650</B></TD>
<TD><B>KLE500</B></TD>
<TD><B>DR650</B></TD>
<TD><B>XF650</B></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><B>Dirtability</B></TD>
<TD>5</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>3</TD>
<TD>6</TD>
<TD>4</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><B>Gravelability</B></TD>
<TD>6</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>5</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>5</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><B>Roadability</B></TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>5</TD>
<TD>9</TD>
<TD>7</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><B>Seated Comfort</B></TD>
<TD>7</TD>
<TD>5</TD>
<TD >7</TD>
<TD>4</TD>
<TD>7</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><B>Standing Comfort</B></TD>
<TD>5</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>4</TD>
<TD>6</TD>
<TD>4</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><B>Range</B></TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>5</TD>
<TD>7</TD>
<TD>6</TD>
<TD>7</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><B>Robustness</B></TD>
<TD>5</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>4</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>6</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><B>Maintainability</B></TD>
<TD>6</TD>
<TD>7</TD>
<TD>5</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>7</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><B>Farkleability</B></TD>
<TD>7</TD>
<TD>6</TD>
<TD>4</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD>4</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD><b>Adventurability</b></TD>
<TD><B>57</B></TD>
<TD><B>60</B></TD>
<TD><B>48</B></TD>
<TD><B>61</B></TD>
<TD><B>52</B></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>



Nordie - the table needs revising, you left out the DRZ400 :weep:

[RedKLR650]

:second:

Farkleability - Availability of aftermarket farkles. Tank for KLR?

Range - 250odd km is ok - not great but more than enough for the longest Dusty Butt section hence a 6. A DRZ would get a 4.

Roadability - Ability on the road. The DR is let down by the seat and lack of stock screen. But is still geared ok and stable on the road.


I've never re-bulit my gearbox? Dunno what you're talking about. < cough > Dohicky < /cough>

:niceone:


Actually Fran, an aftermarket tank for the KLR is available, with the radiator cowlings built in, ad in 1/2 doz different colours..... :gob:

Correct about the DR seat, but wouldn't even mention the screen as took mine off the KLR for a while to see if helmet noise caused by wind disturbance was reduced ...... Didn't make a bit of difference..... So no need for one on the DR :bash:

And as for the Doohicky, after a total of over 90,000kms on different KLRs, and I've yet to do the doohicky either ( must be a bit like DR gearboxes, only some are lemons.... :innocent:

Stu :scooter:

[NordieBoy]

Do they do a tank for the 08 KLR's?

I like a small screen to get the wind pressure off my manly chest.

[clint640]

DR & KLR are in the same class - Adv bikes fer cheap cahnts class...:bleh:

Yeah, trouble is the poor bastards don't realise that by the time they've added a big tank, reworked the shit suspension, replaced all the bits that bend as soon as you look at them, rebuilt the gearbox, fixed the doohicky, replaced the base gasket, added 1 L of oil every 1000km & modified the motor to try & improve the woeful power output, they're still not as good as a 640 &...

...It would have been cheaper to just buy a KTM :yes:

;)
Clint

[Bass]

I'd guess that chart was created by a DR rider. A few revisions might be in order.
Farkleability DR 8? No way replacing broken gearboxes counts as a farkle
Range DR 6? No again, should be about 4. The DR (standard tank) runs out of gas before you get into third gear (at which point it's necessary to rebuild the gearbox, see above)
Roadability DR 7? And no yet again, should be about 4 as well; the vinyl crucifix (aka the seat) is the primary reason the tank is so small, they figured the riders would want (nay, NEED) to get off about the time the tank runs out. (Anyway, they'd have to - there's a gearbox to rebuild.)

Let's settle this once and for all.
Come with us when we go back to Oz next time and bring your KLR.
We will go from Brisbane to Brisbane via the Gunbarrel, the Canning and the Simpson. That has a bit of everything in it including a few thousand k of seal and has been done on a KLR (and dozens of DR's).
Then we will have this discussion again over a beer, (if you ever get back to Brisbane that is) :whistle:





Hang on a mo tho.................
If we settle the question once and for all, we won't have any more threads like this one!!!!!


Nah..... that could never happen................as you were. Carry on.

[NordieBoy]

Nordie - the table needs revising, you left out the DRZ400 :weep:

Has been adjusted...

Anyone else?

The numbers are just from my observations and I can explain each one of them if interested. With attendant powerpoint presentation and laser pointer.

[cooneyr]

Hold just a minute there - (comments inserted)


Yeah, trouble is the poor bastards don't realise that by the time they've added a big tank (got to do that to a E anyway), reworked the shit suspension (if your "big boned" like me the suspension should really be revalved and resprung anyway), replaced all the bits that bend as soon as you look at them (nothing bent on my DR??? - was actually pretty easy to look after from this perspective), rebuilt the gearbox, fixed the doohicky, replaced the base gasket, added 1 L of oil every 1000km (, put in the upgraded bearings (big end or gear box I cant remember?)) & modified the motor (sourced and fitted a high flow head if it is pre 04), to try & improve the woeful power output they're still not as good as a (vibrator, I mean 640) 640 &...

...It would have been cheaper to just buy a KTM (if you are close to the "normal" rider in size and weight):yes:

;)
Clint

640's like any bike are not perfect for everybody just better for some than other bikes. Sometimes I have to wonder if you KTM guys have orange blood that clouds your vision.

If I was not ever doing two up and given current modest budgets I'd still have a 640e with big tank, small screen and soft pannier rails (yes set up like yours Clint) over a DR or KLR though. For two up I'd still prefer a 04/05 950 S but again budgets aren't that big.

Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

...It would have been cheaper to just buy a KTM :yes:

;)
Clint

And added a big tank, re-worked the seat, bars, risers, bash guards, screen...

:bleh:

[clint640]

And added a big tank, re-worked the seat, bars, risers, bash guards, screen...

:bleh:

Well the big tank was thrown in with the bike & there have been a few other bits & pieces added over the years I'll admit, but I've probably still done more k's on that 640 in bone stock trim than many DR & KLR riders will ever do.

:bleh:

Excluding yourself of course...;)

Clint

[Bass]

Well the big tank was thrown in with the bike & there have been a few other bits & pieces added over the years I'll admit, but I've probably still done more k's on that 640 in bone stock trim than many DR & KLR riders will ever do.


Hoi!!!! Piss off and start your own thread. :2guns: :bash:
This is a Kwaka - Zook shit fight!!!! :Offtopic:

[Tony W]

Hey ! You guys are all off topic !!!

This is the "non KLR vs DR" thread.

I was hoping to get a bit of opinion on the Suzuki XF650, as an option to the KLR.

As you can see by Nordrak's graph, if you take away the Fklg category, the KLX and the DR are even....and so they should be...they are in the SAME category - Big trail bikes.

The KLR has more standard equipment, notably a screen, a large tank, and a comfortable seat; - things which most DR owners advocate changing.
This is expensive ... tell me how expensive...?

THE KLR WINS in the equipment stakes. - DR owners... GET OVER IT.

The DR 650 is a lighter, nimbler, tougher bike. It will get through gnarlier situations than the KLR...this is an anecdotal FACT.

KLR owners...ACCEPT IT.


To ALL of you: It's like comparing an XF650 to a KLX 650.
Do you do that !!??

[Tony W]

Nordie - the table needs revising, you left out the DRZ400 :weep:

Don't even go there...!:devil2:

[Bass]

Good grief, he was serious.
He introduced the Hatfields to the McCoys of adventure riding and expected to get a serious discussion.
Well that takes all the fun out of it then.
I'm going home.

[pete376403]

He introduced the Hatfields to the McCoys of adventure riding and expected to get a serious discussion.



Priceless!!! :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[pete376403]

Let's settle this once and for all.
Come with us when we go back to Oz next time and bring your KLR.
We will go from Brisbane to Brisbane via the Gunbarrel, the Canning and the Simpson. That has a bit of everything in it including a few thousand k of seal and has been done on a KLR (and dozens of DR's).
Then we will have this discussion again over a beer, (if you ever get back to Brisbane that is) :whistle:
Hang on a mo tho.................
If we settle the question once and for all, we won't have any more threads like this one!!!!!
Nah..... that could never happen................as you were. Carry on.

Mmmokay - can you post a list of all the mods made to the DR so I could see if I need to farkle a little or a lot - just to keep things even.

[pete376403]

Do they do a tank for the 08 KLR's?

I like a small screen to get the wind pressure off my manly chest.

Same tank as the earlier ones apart from the fairing mounting tabs. You could make it fit if you really wanted to

[Pedrostt500]

Hoi!!!! Piss off and start your own thread. :2guns: :bash:
This is a Kwaka - Zook shit fight!!!! :Offtopic:

Bloody Here here, Bloody EU trying to throw their weight around.!!

The more I ride my DR the more I like it, The DR is a good honest, simple, dual purpose bike, Nothing fancy or over complicated with gadgets.
I looked at buying a KLR, but the bike looked out of proportion, visualy to much weight up to high over the front wheel, that made it look a bit ungainly, a bit like half an elephants arse trying to climb off the front of the bike.

[Creeper]

OMG!!!!!!! it would not matter if I owned a KLR (which I do) or if it was a DR (which I nearly did) but when the F**K are all you going to get over this bullshit of DR/KLR/whatever......it is getting some what (as in the name of this thread) TIRESOME!

[Pedrostt500]

OMG!!!!!!! it would not matter if I owned a KLR (which I do) or if it was a DR (which I nearly did) but when the F**K are all you going to get over this bullshit of DR/KLR/whatever......it is getting some what (as in the name of this thread) TIRESOME!

Kindergarden Sand Pit rules Apply to this type of thread, so nah nah nin nah nah.

[rok-the-boat]

My DR500 (1982) is far from perfect but it runs bloody great and always attracts questions. I had a DR250 before, which was really pokey, but the 500 is far better to ride on the road. I have recently fitted a 16 tooth front sprocket as I ride it 99% on the road and it has made a massive difference to cruising and it still storms ahead in top at 100km/h.

I have ridden both the new DR650 - it's too nice, not rough enough, but still very good - and a KLR, which seemed ponderous in comparison to mine. Certainly no point selling mine to get either of those. I would like to try a KTM520 though.

[GaZBur]

Let's settle this once and for all.
......
Hang on a mo tho.................
If we settle the question once and for all, we won't have any more threads like this one!!!!!


Nah..... that could never happen................as you were. Carry on.


Kindergarden Sand Pit rules Apply to this type of thread, so nah nah nin nah nah.
I am not sure if the whole point of this thread is complain about tiresome comparrisons because they are tiresome and boring or promote a non tiresome bitch slapping fist fighting pistols at 10 paces scrap. If it's the latter yahoo!:girlfight:
A responsible answer would be that the bikes are slightly different and you choose which one is for you by your needs and riding requirements.
But my answer is my my needs far exceed my financial ability to buy a suitable bike and the DR is the only bike in my price range that can cope with the demands. I would love to see more KLR's and DR's being used inappropriatley, where is the fun unless they are pushed to and beyond thier limits.

So - mine is faster than yours!! :bleh:

[nallac]

Bloody Here here, Bloody EU trying to throw their weight around.!!

The more I ride my DR the more I like it, The DR is a good honest, simple, dual purpose bike, Nothing fancy or over complicated with gadgets.
I looked at buying a KLR, but the bike looked out of proportion, visualy to much weight up to high over the front wheel, that made it look a bit ungainly, a bit like half an elephants arse trying to climb off the front of the bike.

geeze a new klr makes a multistrada look good.......:buggerd:

[nallac]

[QUOTE= So - my DR is faster than your KLR!! :bleh:[/QUOTE]

you forgot to mention better looking

[Tony W]

I think the Suzuki XF 650 Freewind ticks all the boxes for the needs of the disadvantaged DR/KLX riders.

Why have you discounted this lovely bike ? It has everything your respective mounts, have not !!! You should ALL be riding one. :dodge:









Nordie mini-space













Just imagine.... peace would reign....and massive Freewind-love-ins, masquerading as adventure rides, would be organised...:lol:

[merv]

Yeah just buy the one you want and can afford and ride the thing to its limit.

Oscar what were you going to say about gearboxes?

As for the Freewind can you still buy them new? Problem I saw with them is they didn't look great.

As for the KLR for a little fellah like me, too bloody heavy.

[Tony W]

Yeah just buy the one you want and can afford and ride the thing to its limit.



As for the Freewind ...they didn't look great.



They are a "10" compared to the KLR

[Crisis management]

They are a "10" compared to the KLR

Are they really?

The engines nice, but it's a DR650 engine isn't it so it must be (gearboxes?), the seats better but it's got a little front wheel.....surely not another bike requiring modification to make it a "real" adventure bike??? :girlfight:

[Tony W]

Are they really?

The engines nice, but it's a DR650 engine isn't it so it must be (gearboxes?), the seats better but it's got a little front wheel.....surely not another bike requiring modification to make it a "real" adventure bike??? :girlfight:

19" is not "little"

I'm tired of hearing from people (not you) who have heard from other people that front wheel DIAMETER is important.

Have they ever noticed that with every inch decrease in the wheel diameter, the tyre WIDTH grows with that particular fitment.

It's the tyre width that screws everything up, as the fatter the tyre, the more it "floats" on the surface, does not "dig in" and causes "problems".

These "problems" are largely psychological, as most people who don't know, believe it to be true, so it is...

Just fit a skinnier, knobblier tyre, if you think you are going to have problems.

[warewolf]

I'm tired of hearing from people (not you) who have heard from other people that front wheel DIAMETER is important.How important is up to you, but you can't discount it as a factor to be considered. Larger diameter wheels don't sink in to holes as much as smaller diameter wheels, and they climb over bumps easier, providing a much nicer ride on rough surfaces and possibly more control.

If 19" worked better in the rough, then why has the industry pretty much standardised on 21" for off-road bikes? Over the years pretty much every diameter from 17 to 23 (24?) has been tried.

[Tony W]

How important is up to you, but you can't discount it as a factor to be considered. Larger diameter wheels don't sink in to holes as much as smaller diameter wheels, and they climb over bumps easier, providing a much nicer ride on rough surfaces and possibly more control.

If 19" worked better in the rough, then why has the industry pretty much standardised on 21" for off-road bikes? Over the years pretty much every diameter from 17 to 23 (24?) has been tried.

I do not disagree with you, but following the popular logic, a 23" would be better.

Look at kids' bikes. They have front wheels ranging from 10" to 19".
They seem to go ok. To my knowledge, noone feels the need to put 21s on those

[Woodman]

KLR's are not ugly, in fact from some perspectives they are quite pretty, they are ok in gnarly parts with the right tyres, they can be backed into corners, and crossed up coming out of corners,wheelstanded over obstacles, jumped and even slightly crossed up in the air (sometimes deliberately) and only heavy when you need to pick them up. (and some of the above).

Whats wrong with that???

BTW has anyone actually ever met anyone who has had a doohickey roger their engine??

[Oscar]

I do not disagree with you, but following the popular logic, a 23" would be better.

Look at kids' bikes. They have front wheels ranging from 10" to 19".
They seem to go ok. To my knowledge, noone feels the need to put 21s on those

19" was very common front wheel diameter for trail bikes in the 70's, 21" was tried and was better, 23" was tried and was not noticeably better, so was abandoned.

Similarly, all sorts of diameters were tried for GP/MotoGP bikes, but they settled at 16.5".

[Tony W]

19" was very common front wheel diameter for trail bikes in the 70's, 21" was tried and was better, 23" was tried and was not noticeably better, so was abandoned.

Similarly, all sorts of diameters were tried for GP/MotoGP bikes, but they settled at 16.5".

How do you feel about front tyre widths ?

[merv]

... and I thought Oscar might tell us about gearboxes.

Tyre width, the thinner the better on the front wheel on loose gravel.

Knobblies are best in my opinion too for gravel, the road type adventure tyres just roll over the stones and make you really loose (nah ...not like in Trudes cheating thread).

[warewolf]

Look at kids' bikes. They have front wheels ranging from 10" to 19".
They seem to go ok. To my knowledge, noone feels the need to put 21s on thoseStandover height is more of an issue in that market. But note they'll usually have a bigger front...

[Tony W]

Standover height is more of an issue in that market. But note they'll usually have a bigger front...

How do YOU feel about front tyre width ?

[NordieBoy]

The KLR has more standard equipment, notably a screen, a large tank, and a comfortable seat; - things which most DR owners advocate changing.
This is expensive ... tell me how expensive...?

$400 odd extra.

Still cheaper than a KLR :bleh:

[Tony W]

$400 odd extra.

Still cheaper than a KLR :bleh:

New IMS tank............$NZ . ?

Corbin seat................$NZ . ?

Aftermarket screen......$NZ 250


Total = $400 ? .......... Tui !

[NordieBoy]

New IMS tank............$NZ . ?

Corbin seat................$NZ . ?

Aftermarket screen......$NZ 250


Total = $400 ? .......... Tui !

IMS $300 odd.
Screen $50 odd.
Modded stock seat $50 odd.

But shop around.
My screen was $0 and the same for the seat.

[Tony W]

I bought a Clarke tank $US 195 @ .7, was $400 landed.

IMS now @ $250 x .5 + freight approx $600.


Now you know it's unfair to compare home-made, second-hand, or modified parts, with the new ones found on the Kwaka.

...but I guess all's fair in war...:innocent:....?

[JATZ]

I can't comment on the XF but I had an F650, one of the older ones, pretty much the same as an XF, and it did what I asked it to do without too much complaint. Could have done with a bit lower gearing but that was about it. Good fuel range, comfy seat, quiet,reliable,good on the road, o.k. on gravel and marginal in mud(but that was probly tyres and rider) just damn expensive to fix and a bit heavy.
If it had been a bit taller and fit ME better I probly would have kept it
Wouldn't get rid of my DR now though

[GaZBur]

19" is not "little"

I'm tired of hearing from people (not you) who have heard from other people that front wheel DIAMETER is important.
...
These "problems" are largely psychological, as most people who don't know, believe it to be true, so it is...

...a skinnier, knob...

19 isnt little not to mention 21inch. Oh now I feel inadequate. Mine is only a 17inch.
I always heard the size doesn't matter - its what you do with it. Was that wrong. I feel so insecure now.

[Tony W]

I can't comment on the XF but I had an F650, one of the older ones, pretty much the same as an XF, and it did what I asked it to do without too much complaint. Could have done with a bit lower gearing but that was about it. Good fuel range, comfy seat, quiet,reliable,good on the road, o.k. on gravel and marginal in mud(but that was probly tyres and rider) just damn expensive to fix and a bit heavy.
If it had been a bit taller and fit ME better I probly would have kept it
Wouldn't get rid of my DR now though

Congratz Jatz ! One of the first replies that's on topic !:niceone:

[Tony W]

19 isnt little not to mention 21inch. Oh now I feel inadequate. Mine is only a 17inch.
I always heard the size doesn't matter - its what you do with it. Was that wrong. I feel so insecure now.

I too am afflicted with the 17 inch !:weep:


Denniso can work wonders with his 17".........( Clint 640 may like to comment )

[Oscar]

How do you feel about front tyre widths ?

I tried a 350x21 once, to see if I'd get more "bite".
Horrible.

[GaZBur]

I too am afflicted with the 17 inch !:weep:


Denniso can work wonders with his 17".........( Clint 640 may like to comment )
OK so they arent as big ... but do you think KLR owners can get it up like this?
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=1124&pictureid=11158

Now this has got to start a bitchfight!

[Tony W]

OK so they arent as big ... but do you think KLR owners can get it up like this?
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=1124&pictureid=11158

Now this has got to start a bitchfight!

Noicce !!!

Have you checked out mine on my home page ?

[GaZBur]

Noicce !!!

Have you checked out mine on my home page ?

Woohoo that looks nice!
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=1134&pictureid=11263
OK I know I am off topic, have been every post on this thread so far so I wont stop now, but is that a standard front brake, if so do you ever think it needs upgrading?

[Tony W]

Woohoo that looks nice!
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=1134&pictureid=11263
OK I know I am off topic, have been every post on this thread so far so I wont stop now, but is that a standard front brake, if so do you ever think it needs upgrading?

Absolutely standard. I won't need to upgrade it. Hope to do a trackday at Taupo soon...

[Tony W]

My mate, Kiwibiker, Wayne.A, bought this off Trademe Last week...

He's in Auckland

18" & 21" wheels included.

[junkmanjoe]

well today there was dr650,s klr650,s on the coast ride.
id say with the terrain we covered, and some of it was very nasty, both breed of bikes done very well.
so its just what you fancy in a bike, DR:argue:KLR ummm

[GaZBur]

well today there was dr650,s klr650,s on the coast ride.
id say with the terrain we covered, and some of it was very nasty, both breed of bikes done very well.
so its just what you fancy in a bike, DR:argue:KLR ummm

Sorry junkmanjoe - but such reasonable comments are not condusive to creating a turf war/bitch fight. :girlfight:
Could you perhaps say something more inflamatory, take either side we don't care.

[nallac]

:argh:DRs are just better.........................................

[Taz]

Stuff ya DogRooters and KrappyLargeRectums I prefer (insert bike brand/model here)........ That'll stir em up. Still loved my XT600E :o

[Woodman]

just looking through this thread and so far the DR's have racked up more bad comments than KLR's.
I believe this to be a significant and accurate assessment of the relative issues, therefore the only conclusion thus far pertaining to the KLR vs DR debate is that KLR's are significantly less averse than DR's.

[Peril]

just looking through this thread and so far the DR's have racked up more bad comments than KLR's.
I believe this to be a significant and accurate assessment of the relative issues, therefore the only conclusion thus far pertaining to the KLR vs DR debate is that KLR's are significantly less averse than DR's.

Maybe DR's get ridden harder and ridden through areas like this...
I would imagine taking a bike with lots of plastic through places like that,would end in tears.
So in conclusion,XT's win :D

[Woodman]

Maybe DR's get ridden harder and ridden through areas like this...
I would imagine taking a bike with lots of plastic through places like that,would end in tears.
So in conclusion,XT's win :D

na I reckon my KLR would fit between those trees, either that or just mow them down.

Plastic = Consumable item .(tyres, oil, etc)

[JATZ]

Maybe DR's get ridden harder and ridden through areas like this...
I would imagine taking a bike with lots of plastic through places like that,would end in tears.
So in conclusion,XT's win :D

Ahem....... I'd just like to add that, XT's are good but DR's are much more betterer.:woohoo:
But both are far superior to KLR's ( even know of 1 klr owner who would love to get his hands on a certain 22 year old XT)

:whistle:

[warewolf]

How do YOU feel about front tyre width ?Width is great on any surface you want to float on. Sucks on any surface you want to cut through. Great for straight line traction, sucks for manoeuvrability. Choose your evil...

The 640A has a 2.15" front rim with a 90/90 tyre (same rim width as the rear of the 200). The resultant wider contact patch might be good for high-speed on-road situations, but I believe it is a negative factor in off-road grip, and why anything with less bite than an enduro knobby sucks on the dirt. It probably has a profile like the 100/90-19 on the XF650, and handles as poorly apart from the ups from the larger diameter. :dodge:

[NordieBoy]

Ahem....... I'd just like to add that, XT's are good but DR's are much more betterer.:woohoo:
But both are far superior to KLR's ( even know of 1 klr owner who would love to get his hands on a certain 22 year old XT)

:whistle:

Who could it be?

http://www.photostorage.nelson.geek.nz/sports/motorsport/mybikes/Trips/20090213%20Big%20River%20Rideout/slides/20090214-104838-000146.jpg

[ducatijim]

.................sigh......................if only I gave a damn.....................:whocares:

[junkmanjoe]

Sorry junkmanjoe - but such reasonable comments are not condusive to creating a turf war/bitch fight. :girlfight:
Could you perhaps say something more inflamatory, take either side we don't care.

well a few klrs did bite the dirt, while my DR stayed up all day. dose that count for 1 for the DRS.

[Padmei]

Just watched the video of the Big River ride & Fuck all of yous... that XT of Mrs Jatz is the best bike in the world.

[cooneyr]

Just watched the video of the Big River ride & Fuck all of yous... that XT of Mrs Jatz is the best bike in the world.

Yer - go the XT(z)'s :niceone:

Cheers R

[Woodman]

Just watched the video of the Big River ride & Fuck all of yous... that XT of Mrs Jatz is the best bike in the world.

Why why why ???

[JATZ]

Why why why ???

Check out the crappy footage of it on sat, turn the volume up

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lNqPEwT6QJU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lNqPEwT6QJU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

:bleh: :bleh:

Cool, my own video on the iterwebby thingy thats a first

[Padmei]

Why why why ???

Sometimes you just can't explain things...

[NordieBoy]

Just watched the video of the Big River ride & Fuck all of yous... that XT of Mrs Jatz is the best bike in the world.

Be nice or I'll post the photo of you with your pants down . (http://www.photostorage.nelson.geek.nz/sports/motorsport/mybikes/Trips/20090213%20Big%20River%20Rideout/slides/20090214-142047-000066.jpg)

[Padmei]

& I'll post the pic of your dirty knees:bleh:

[Woodman]

Sometimes you just can't explain things...

Would a louder pipe help??

[TLDV8]

People should just ride what they like. :laugh:

I went out to buy a new bike and the list included both the KTM 640 and BMW 650 Dakar,both did not have what i was looking for.

The DR works for me,that is all that matters.
Today was another day in the tropics (wet season)
Caned on the tar seal,plenty of dirt including overgrown single track, a good deal in off/on torrential rain which made the 30 or more water crossings interesting.

At the end of the day actions speak louder than words.:girlfight:

<img src=http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/manurewa/IMG_1376Custom.jpg>

[Tony W]

Just watched the video of the Big River ride & Fuck all of yous... that XT of Mrs Jatz is the best bike in the world.

I agree. That is probably the coolest bike I've ever seen !

Bags to be first in the resale queue !:shifty:

[Padmei]

I agree. That is probably the coolest bike I've ever seen !

Bags to be first in the resale queue !:shifty:

Sorry did I say it was good. No it goes like as sack of shit & is all over the place, no style, broken handguard, nah you wouldn't want it:Pokey:

[NordieBoy]

Sorry did I say it was good. No it goes like as sack of shit & is all over the place, no style, broken handguard, nah you wouldn't want it:Pokey:

"I'll be faithfull to you always. No. There's no-one else. I have no idea why you'd think such a thing..."
http://www.photostorage.nelson.geek.nz/sports/motorsport/mybikes/Trips/20090213%20Big%20River%20Rideout/slides/20090214-102639-000148.jpg

[Padmei]

Damn will I have to start wearing red & white? I hate Red:angry2:

[Peril]

Would a louder pipe help??

Like mine?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XCt7O-7D0I

Edit : can't figure out how to add the vid directly to here and our work comp is so stupidly slow I havn't got the patience to try too many times.

[NordieBoy]

Damn will I have to start wearing red & white? I hate Red:angry2:

What's your feelings about pink then?

Not that the XT is pink or anything :whistle:

[Bass]

Mmmokay - can you post a list of all the mods made to the DR so I could see if I need to farkle a little or a lot - just to keep things even.

Very late in replying to this, but better late than never I suppose.

Farkling is free (except changing gearboxes I'm told). So farkle to your heart's content - (just don't get caught doing it eh?.......shit.... sidetracked again.... sorry about that)

You will need to farkle to the extent that you can cope with deep sand and other loose surfaces overlaid on serious corrugatons for long distances. You will need to be able to carry fuel for at least 900 km in these conditions plus water for 3 days in high temperatures. Other supplies like food and somewhere to sleep are optional and up to you as are tools spares etc but you will have to carry your own. No-one else will do it for you.
Give consideration to maps, GPS, sat phone etc i.e. means of knowing exactly where you are and being able to yell for emergency help should it be necessary.

Pretty mundane really
Sunday arvo jaunt.

[NordieBoy]

Pretty mundane really
Sunday arvo jaunt.

Just how long are your Sundays?

[Bass]

Just how long are your Sundays?

Have you never heard the expression "a month of Sundays"?

You watch....I'll bet pete 345 and a 1/2 will come back and tell me his KLR will meet that spec as standard now.

[JATZ]

I agree. That is probably the coolest bike I've ever seen !

Bags to be first in the resale queue !:shifty:


Just watched the video of the Big River ride & Fuck all of yous... that XT of Mrs Jatz is the best bike in the world.


FFS you 2 !!:2guns:

She can be hard enough to live with already without this sort of stuff.:Pokey:

Might even have to widen the door frames just so she can get her head through them

[Tony W]

You just told me it was a piece of shite !!!

I'm just on my way over to take it off your hands !:2thumbsup

Your Mrs might want to post a coupla pics of herself for good measure....!!!;)

....and I have just sent her a friend request, to show my sincerity....

[Ally67]

You just told me it was a piece of shite !!!

I'm just on my way over to take it off your hands !:2thumbsup

Your Mrs might want to post a coupla pics of herself for good measure....!!!;)

....and I have just sent her a friend request, to show my sincerity....

O.K. Tony, just for you

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/ztaj/115_1701.jpg

or would you like something a little more revealing

[Tony W]

Oh ! ......... only if you want.....:sweatdrop.....all that bike gear can be cumbersome.....!!

[NordieBoy]

O.K. Tony, just for you

or would you like something a little more revealing

Keep it clean or I'll show that pic of you and Padmei with no pants on...

[twotyred]

O.K. Tony, just for you

or would you like something a little more revealing

yes please,we can't quite see all the of the bike in that shot:nya:

[Padmei]

Bump

To stop clogging up the other threads

[Paladin]

Bump

To stop clogging up the other threads

I humbly apologise to the other thread's serious participants! (no I do honestly!)

:spanking: me (please!). :msn-wink:

[Oscar]

O.K. Tony, just for you

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/ztaj/115_1701.jpg

or would you like something a little more revealing

Niiiice...where you'd get that?

[JATZ]

Niiiice...where you'd get that?


Which one ? the Big, the Ten, or the missus

[Oscar]

Which one ? the Big, the Ten, or the missus

I already have a Doris, I don't need an anchor for my boat, so clearly I'm after the Yamaha...:niceone:

[NordieBoy]

I already have a Doris, I don't need an anchor for my boat, so clearly I'm after the Yamaha...:niceone:

You'll have to fight Padmei for it :D

[Peril]

I already have a Doris, I don't need an anchor for my boat, so clearly I'm after the Yamaha...:niceone:
You can buy mine soon if you want.
Bit rough round the edges,noisey 3rd gear and currently in the shop getting electrical gremlins looked at.It'd be a good project to return to it's former glory,which unfortunatly I don't have any more money for.

[marks]

I humbly apologise to the other thread's serious participants! (no I do honestly!)

nah

fuck'em all

[Bass]

nah

fuck'em all

Bloody typical noisy KLR owner.
No consideration at all.
Never mind - I understand that having to make-do with inferior equipment can be really frustrating -at least that's what I'm told.

[BMWST?]

in my humble un biased opinion...
thet are for different markets
the klr is an adventure bike
the dr is an "trail" bike...

[Bass]

in my humble un biased opinion...
thet are for different markets
the klr is an adventure bike
the dr is an "trail" bike...

Well you are entitled to your opinion, but it is my opinion that this thread exists mainly for us to take the piss out of each other.
So far, it has only occasionally reached its objective, mainly because a topic that matters not one whit in the real world, regularly gets taken seriously.
Bugger!

[NordieBoy]

in my humble un biased opinion...
thet are for different markets
the klr is an adventure bike
the dr is an "trail" bike...

After taking the DR on a "trail" ride it is an "adventure bike".
More trail biased than the KLR but still an adventure bike.

[Paladin]

........it is my opinion that this thread exists mainly for us to take the piss out of each other.
So far, it has only occasionally reached its objective, mainly because a topic that matters not one whit in the real world, regularly gets taken seriously.
Bugger!

Fortunately I think the regular contributors all know its just a bit of fun, is exactly as you eloquently described, and luckily do not leave their sense of humour at the door when they log on! :2thumbsup

We all know DR's & KLR's are two different sides of the Adventure bike grouping, one a bit more trailie orientated and one a bit more cruisy orientated! :calm:

That being said, what kind of numpty buys an adv bike whose fairing crumples into a gazillion pieces if you just sneeze on it? :Pokey:

(probably the same kind of numpty who buys an adv bike with a paper thin sump case and then rides it with no bashplate! :doh: )

:o

[Paladin]

After taking the DR on a "trail" ride it is an "adventure bike".
More trail biased than the KLR but still an adventure bike.

yeah, wot he said! FOR SURE!!!!! :2thumbsup

[Oscar]

After taking the DR on a "trail" ride it is an "adventure bike".
More trail biased than the KLR but still an adventure bike.

There's nowt special about this argument.
Substitute KTM 950Adv for DR, and GS1200 for KLR, and you could repeat the whole thing...

[Paladin]

There's nowt special about this argument.
Substitute KTM 950Adv for DR, and GS1200 for KLR, and you could repeat the whole thing...

I was kinda hoping we weren't having an argument! :hug::hug:

[JATZ]

Substitute KTM 950Adv for DR, and GS1200 for KLR, and you could repeat the whole thing...

:Oi: go start your own thread for that...

This is a deep and meaningfull debate. :rofl:

[Paladin]

:Oi: go start your own thread for that...

This is a deep and meaningfull debate. :rofl:

And we know who's right! :msn-wink:

[Oscar]

I was kinda hoping we weren't having an argument! :hug::hug:

DR and KLR owners don't argue.









































Yeah right...

[Paladin]

DR and KLR owners don't argue.
Yeah right...

Oh no we don't!

"Oh yes they do".

Oh no we don't!

"Oh yes they do".

Oh no we don't!


:doh:

[Woodman]

After taking the DR on a "trail" ride it is an "adventure bike".
More trail biased than the KLR but still an adventure bike.

After taking the KLR on a "trail" ride it performed ok as a trail bike, and if the fairing does smash into small pieces it doesn't matter cos they look even better naked.:headbang:

[NordieBoy]

There's nowt special about this argument.
Substitute KTM 950Adv for DR, and GS1200 for KLR, and you could repeat the whole thing...

Ahhh... But they're twins not big singles so they don't count.








Until I get one :shifty:

[Oscar]

Ahhh... But they're twins not big singles so they don't count.








Until I get one :shifty:

...and which side would you be on, pray tell?

The orange side or the dark side...?

[JATZ]

...and which side would you be on, pray tell?

The orange side or the dark side...?

Doesn't matter really.

He'd farkle it 'till it was un-recognisable :eek5:

:whistle:

[Oscar]

Doesn't matter really.

He'd farkle it 'till it was un-recognisable :eek5:

:whistle:

Not much to farkle on a KTM.
Lots on a BMW.

[BMWST?]

Well you are entitled to your opinion, but it is my opinion that this thread exists mainly for us to take the piss out of each other.
So far, it has only occasionally reached its objective, mainly because a topic that matters not one whit in the real world, regularly gets taken seriously.
Bugger!

thank you!

[NordieBoy]

...and which side would you be on, pray tell?

The orange side or the dark side...?

Right on the middle of the fence.






Staring lustfully at the KTM.

Buuuutttttt... An HP2...

[NordieBoy]

Not much to farkle on a KTM.

Wanna bet :D

[Oscar]

Wanna bet :D

My 950 has pipes, crash bars, luggage, heated grips and 2" risers.
Nothing else is needed.

Except maybe a high fender kit.


Oh, and a taller seat.

But that's it.

Except for maybes a couple of other leetle things.


One of the reasons I went orange is that it comes with the good stuff already fitted.

[Paladin]

......

One of the reasons I went orange is that it comes with the good stuff already fitted.

It wasn't free good stuff though was it. Whether you pay a much higher price to buy a KTM or buy a less expensive bike and then add the stuff OF YOUR CHOICE, what's the difference? You can still have a bike with lots of extras and farkles. Some might argue buying a more basic bike and then adding what you want makes for a more personalized bike maybe. I know a KTM owner will always argue that their bike in basic form would still be a better bike and they're probably right, but doesn't take away from the fact that anyone can have pretty much anything they want on their bike to make it what they want as an individual I would say. And some people get great enjoyment from developing their bike to become a personalized bike that is truly THEIR bike.
As with any of our friendly discussions(banter!) like DR vs KLR, it all just comes down to horses for courses does it not? :2thumbsup

[warewolf]

One big difference is that the KTM and the good stuff is designed to work together, comes with complete documentation and consolidated support, and no bits left over afterwards.

My call was that I'd rather work at what I was good at to pay for factory farkles, partly because I'd rather ride than farkle. And I didn't want to try to make a silk purse out of a sows ear... been there, done that.

Just tonight I had a conversation with an engineer friend of mine (he's gonna sign up here and come riding, aren't you fellah?!) who wants to buy crash bars. He could make them himself, but why bother? Someone's already done all the development and has them made cost-effectively en masse. DIY people very, very rarely factor in their true expenses (esp. labour) at commercial rates which skews any cost comparisons, but equally DIY can be the most effective use of the resources available. Not everything has to come down to the almighty dollar, either: DIY is good for the soul.

To farkle or not to farkle: as you say, horses for courses, and fuck the world would be a boring place if we all rode the same thing, eh?

Finally re: personalisation. Most adventure farkles AFAIK are about fitting the bike to the rider and their particular uses, not to make it stand out in the crowd a la cruiser world. Personalising more for internal vs external satisfaction. What say you, farklers of the adv world?

[marks]

And I didn't want to try to make a silk purse out of a sows ear...

oh I don't know....

I'm having lots of fun on my farkled sows ear....:wari:

(man that banana can dance)

[Padmei]

Buuuutttttt... An HP2...

oh yeah :headbang:- but they've discontinued them haven't they? How could they do that.??:(


Have to find one for the wall of coolness...

[Bass]

Finally re: personalisation. Most adventure farkles AFAIK are about fitting the bike to the rider and their particular uses, not to make it stand out in the crowd a la cruiser world. Personalising more for internal vs external satisfaction. What say you, farklers of the adv world?

Sounds like me to a "T"

[Oscar]

It wasn't free good stuff though was it. Whether you pay a much higher price to buy a KTM or buy a less expensive bike and then add the stuff OF YOUR CHOICE, what's the difference? You can still have a bike with lots of extras and farkles. Some might argue buying a more basic bike and then adding what you want makes for a more personalized bike maybe. I know a KTM owner will always argue that their bike in basic form would still be a better bike and they're probably right, but doesn't take away from the fact that anyone can have pretty much anything they want on their bike to make it what they want as an individual I would say. And some people get great enjoyment from developing their bike to become a personalized bike that is truly THEIR bike.
As with any of our friendly discussions(banter!) like DR vs KLR, it all just comes down to horses for courses does it not? :2thumbsup

Sure, but as far as I can see: {Price of KTM} is equal to or less than {Price of Jap Equivalent + Farkles}.

[Paladin]

Sure, but as far as I can see: {Price of KTM} is equal to or less than {Price of Jap Equivalent + Farkles}.

KTM 990Adv $23k
KTM690E $17k

So hazard a guess 690Adv, if it ever arrives, could be $18-20k.

So if you buy a brand new '09 DR650 at $9000, its gonna cost more than $10k to farkle it!!!

You're welcome to your opinion Oscar, but that sounds a bit of a stretch to me!!!! :msn-wink:

[Oscar]

KTM 990Adv $23k
KTM690E $17k

So hazard a guess 690Adv, if it ever arrives, could be $18-20k.

So if you buy a brand new '09 DR650 at $9000, its gonna cost more than $10k to farkle it!!!

You're welcome to your opinion Oscar, but that sounds a bit of a stretch to me!!!! :msn-wink:

I was actually comparing KLR v. 640a.
If you up-spec a KLR to match the Adventure, you'd probably wind up spending more.

[warewolf]

So hazard a guess 690Adv, if it ever arrives, could be $18-20k.

So if you buy a brand new '09 DR650 at $9000How many years' development difference between those two bikes? 20, 25 years?

A more valid comparison is a new-old DR650 at $9000 vs run-out specials on 640Es at $11,000. The DR loses out big time in that one, there's no way you could upgrade the frame, suspension & engine for $2K.

[Paladin]

I was actually comparing KLR v. 640a.
If you up-spec a KLR to match the Adventure, you'd probably wind up spending more.

Yet another reason to NOT buy a KLR then! :whistle:


How many years' development difference between those two bikes? 20, 25 years?

A more valid comparison is a new-old DR650 at $9000 vs run-out specials on 640Es at $11,000. The DR loses out big time in that one, there's no way you could upgrade the frame, suspension & engine for $2K.

Well I didn't see any new 690E "specials" at $11k while I was bike hunting recently, but I take your point mate! I was just going new vs new on price to ensure apples vs apples comparison as best I could. When buying my bike, with the money I could afford, I looked at older KTM's(not that there were many about!) but for where I'm at the potential issues with an older bike vs '09 DR with 2 yrs warranty was a concern. Its just my personal situation so thats what worked for me. Down the road when I'm more cashed up or better still more mechanical minded/experienced, then the situation may well be different!

I'm certainly not havin a dig at KTM's, as you've seen me say I would have loved to been able to afford a new/slightly used one! As we've both said, horses for courses, and because I'm new to adv bikes, find it an interesting discussion to see where people are coming from on why they choose what bikes! :2thumbsup

The development point you made is akin to what I said a bit above - at the base level, the KTM is gonna be a better bike before any flashy stuff is added on top and that comes from the development over many years and the proven testing on the Dakar etc.

As usual, appreciate your input/views mate! :niceone:

[warewolf]

Yep, agree, I'm living in dreamworld if I think that 640Es are gonna come back new at $11K :no: It would be nice, but the 690 is the way forward and they don't have enough production capacity to make the 690A, let alone keep churning out the LC4s... which would likely still sell at 11.

As you say, commercial realities, but at the other end of the pipeline. :msn-wink:

[Paladin]

Yep, agree, I'm living in dreamworld if I think that 640Es are gonna come back new at $11K :no: It would be nice, but the 690 is the way forward and they don't have enough production capacity to make the 690A, let alone keep churning out the LC4s... which would likely still sell at 11.

As you say, commercial realities, but at the other end of the pipeline. :msn-wink:

Have you seen any prototype photos of the supposed 690A yet, or is it all still just on the drawing board?

[warewolf]

No idea, I'm not really following it, buying one is not on my radar. I'll probably find out from official sources ahead of any internet rumours, of which there are and will continue to be many. All along, KTM have said 2009/2010, so I wouldn't be surprised if there was an announcement at a dealer conference in the middle of the year.

btw I include the design team in the production capacity. Dunno what stage it is at.

[Oscar]

Yet another reason to NOT buy a KLR then! :whistle:



Now whoa there, Jimmy - I'm not getting involved in supporting one side or the other here, I've got my hands full with the whole KTM v. BMW thing...




...although my other bike is a DRZ.:Punk:

[Paladin]

Now whoa there, Jimmy - I'm not getting involved in supporting one side or the other here, I've got my hands full with the whole KTM v. BMW thing...




...although my other bike is a DRZ.:Punk:

I think you're already involved! :confused:


:msn-wink: