4 years for tagger killer

[Mully]

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/5318762/killer-teen-tagger-gets-years-jail/

[The Pastor]

he looks dangerous.

[JimO]

heshould have been given a set of steak knives and a medal, people killed or injured whilst commiting a crime have no rights as far as i am concerned

[Finn]

In a case like this, what the heck is a prison sentence going to prove? The guy is not a criminal and is no threat to the community (taggers maybe). Home detention would have been a better choice.

The mother of the tagger gets no sympathy from me.

[imdying]

Perhaps Leanne Cameron should've spent a few moments thinking about her son whilst bringing him up... too bloody late now woman.

[kiwifruit]

In a case like this, what the heck is a prison sentence going to prove? The guy is not a criminal and is no threat to the community (taggers maybe). Home detention would have been a better choice.



Yes, you are right but the fact Emery argued he took the knife for self-defence and Pihema fell onto the knife probably didn't help his case

[MisterD]

Yes, you are right but the fact Emery argued he took the knife for self-defence and Pihema fell onto the knife probably didn't help his case

Done for manslaughter, not murder, so the jury must have been convinced of his lack of intent to kill.

[toebug]

Poor bugger, he did a good job! One less tagger, next please:ar15:

[Quasievil]

lock him up, murder is murder
He took the knife that killed him and he held the knife that killed him then hid the knife that killed him, what else do you need in a murder case? a small time crim? bollocks that shit aint worth a life.

We have locked up innocent people for longer.

[Beemer]

I knew they would probably put him away as a deterrent for anyone else who wanted to dish out some justice of their own (shame really!) but I hope he isn't in jail with any of the taggers or their families or he'll get a hard time.

I think in this case home detention would have provided all the punishment necessary.

The dead kid's mother is probably related to that piece of shit who barked like a dog in court in support of HER son, who had stabbed a guy to death. As the other half says, put them all in a gated compound, plant gum trees and pray... (no offence intended to the bushfire victims)

[Headbanger]

That'll learn him for running around the streets stabbing people to death.

[jrandom]

lock him up, murder is murder

Yeah, but there's a lot of sympathy amongst the silent majority in this country for any white man who kills a brown man. Just the way it works, eh.

Probably justified, too. The tagger wasn't anything that would've ever been of any use to anyone.

Does that mean he deserved to die? No, of course not. It probably means he didn't deserve to be born, though.

Unfortunately, until having kids becomes, say, as legally regulated as owning dogs, it won't be possible to do anything about that, and the female untermenschen will keep on spittin' 'em out like pips on an inevitable prison-bound trajectory.

[Benk]

lock him up, murder is murder
He took the knife that killed him and he held the knife that killed him then hid the knife that killed him, what else do you need in a murder case? a small time crim? bollocks that shit aint worth a life.

We have locked up innocent people for longer.

+1

Dont do the crime if you cant do the time, which in this case is 4 years.

A long time on the inside for sure, but 2 wrongs dont make a right, and taking another life for a bit of vandalism is excessive.

I mean, if he had have dealt out a flogging to the tagger with his fists then, ok, maybe - people overreact, but if you go into a fight with a knife, then you are there to kill or maim. He got what he deserves. No more, no less IMO

[Indiana_Jones]

Well if killers like David Bain get off, there's hope for him lol

-Indy

[Morcs]

If someone is on your property, let alone damaging it, we should have the right to defend our property with any force necessary.

The police dont do shit. Look at this example, if the dude left the tagger alone, he'd be very pissed, the darkie wouldve got away to tag again, and the tax payer would be funding the graffiti cleaning squad.

On the other hand, dont live in manurewa.

[Quasievil]

If someone is on your property, let alone damaging it, we should have the right to defend our property with any force necessary.

The police dont do shit. Look at this example, if the dude left the tagger alone, he'd be very pissed, the darkie wouldve got away to tag again, and the tax payer would be funding the graffiti cleaning squad.

On the other hand, dont live in manurewa.

the stabbing occured 400 mtrs down the road from the place of the tagging..........its okay to run and chase and then kill is it.

And you refer to him as a Darkie which makes you a what exactly?

The level of redneck fucking attitude on this forum is mindblowing

[JimO]

+1

Dont do the crime if you cant do the time, which in this case is 4 years.

A long time on the inside for sure, but 2 wrongs dont make a right, and taking another life for a bit of vandalism is excessive.

I mean, if he had have dealt out a flogging to the tagger with his fists then, ok, maybe - people overreact, but if you go into a fight with a knife, then you are there to kill or maim. He got what he deserves. No more, no less IMO

do you really think a overweight 50s man could chase and catch a couple of young guys, i doubt it, they led him on for a while then turned on him and would have had no problem kicking him to death once he was on the ground except he managed to stick one of them, whats happened to the other tagger what penalty did he get......good fucken riddance i say emery should have at the most got got home d. t

[Quasievil]

do you really think a overweight 50s man could chase and catch a couple of young guys, i doubt it, they led him on for a while then turned on him and would have had no problem kicking him to death once he was on the ground except he managed to stick one of them, whats happened to the other tagger what penalty did he get......good fucken riddance i say emery should have at the most got got home d. t

But thats not what happened is it. Thats why he is locked up.

[Morcs]

the stabbing occured 400 mtrs down the road from the place of the tagging..........its okay to run and chase and then kill is it.

And you refer to him as a Darkie which makes you a what exactly?

The level of redneck fucking attitude on this forum is mindblowing

Not meant to be derogatory, but stereortypical. Bet im right too. Its strange that whenever ive been to manurewa, there are no white people standing around looking at you like they are going to steal your shit and then arse rape you. My comment is justified.

[jrandom]

steal your shit and then arse rape you

Fair call though; I'd want the shit out of the way before I arse raped someone too.

[Murray]

Not meant to be derogatory, but stereortypical. Bet im right too. Its strange that whenever ive been to manurewa, there are no white people standing around looking at you like they are going to steal your shit and then arse rape you. My comment is justified.

There are if you go to Timaru and they've even shaved for you

[Reckless]

But the message has now been sent to us all!! Is it!

You can't chase and kill someone in our society!
or
People can no longer defend property or defend yourself. Feel free to tag, burgle, bag snatch etc. because everyones to scared of our own rules to confront you.

I fear for the honest people it will be number one but for the dishonest it will be number two!!

Have we taken another step backwards! You decide!

PS I do very strongly agree with some of the hints in this thread. We must start finding ways to make parents responsible. Its the only way to break the cycle. How is we do this is another question? Winston Peters tried a few years ago with that bill he tried to introduce and failed. If my 14 year old gets into trouble as far as I'm concerned its partly my fault cause I haven't done my job properly! Maybe things are how they are because we've created it or stood by and let it happen!
I know one thing for sure people are getting very very sick of it!!
My 2c

[MisterD]

Meanwhile the same sentence is handed down to another 50 yr old for the vicious abuse of Nia Glassie...something isn't right...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10556503

[Murray]

Yeah, but there's a lot of sympathy amongst the silent majority in this country for any white man who kills a brown man. Just the way it works, eh.

Big Call!!! I think it more the case of sympathy for anyone standing up for and protecting their rights

[jrandom]

Big Call!!! I think it more the case of sympathy for anyone standing up for and protecting their rights

I dunnoooooo.

There may be some of that, but I also think that if it'd been a white teenager in West Auckland who'd been stabbed and killed by a brown homeowner whose garage he'd been tagging, the crowd in this thread would be baying for blood.

[Morcs]

And this is why people commit these crimes (stealing, tagging etc..) because they know theres nothing you can do about it except dial 111 and get over it.

If every tagger/burglar knew that there were actual severe consequences to commiting these crimes, they would at least think twice about it.

[MisterD]

I dunnoooooo.

There may be some of that, but I also think that if it'd been a white teenager in West Auckland who'd been stabbed and killed by a brown homeowner whose garage he'd been tagging, the crowd in this thread would be baying for blood.

Not me. Worthless little scrote is a designation which is independent of skin tone...

[Morcs]

I dunnoooooo.

There may be some of that, but I also think that if it'd been a white teenager in West Auckland who'd been stabbed and killed by a brown homeowner whose garage he'd been tagging, the crowd in this thread would be baying for blood.

You are correct.

when I studied psychology, I did some research on a study carried out in america a while back.
It was a picture of a white man holding a razor blade to a blackman at close range on the subway. People were only allowed to glance at the picture.
When they were asked what they saw, nearly everyone said it was the black man holding the razor blade.

[Reckless]

I dunnoooooo.

There may be some of that, but I also think that if it'd been a white teenager in West Auckland who'd been stabbed and killed by a brown homeowner whose garage he'd been tagging, the crowd in this thread would be baying for blood.


Na I don't agree with the racial slant mr random its about right and wrong not skin colour! In NZ anyway.

[Quasievil]

Not meant to be derogatory, but stereortypical. Bet im right too. Its strange that whenever ive been to manurewa, there are no white people standing around looking at you like they are going to steal your shit and then arse rape you. My comment is justified.


No doubting that the smaller enthic groups are over represented in the Crime stats no doubt at all.
It however isnt something I can tolerate (ya know one of those things) when Racisit remarks are made, its not a positive thing at all in any regard and I think that way way to many people in NZ let loose with remarks like that (this is not a personal attack dude) far to often. Its Anti Kiwi in my books and if we all say such things this country will go backwards and fast, I dont want that in my country.
We MUST accept faults and issues and work positively to change them......there actually is no alternative.

Anyway fuck this im off to the bike shop to get some bits !!

["D" FZ1]

If the little shit had been at home in bed where he belonged and not out doing mindless damage to other peoples property he would still be alive today.

[SPman]

Na I don't agree with the racial slant mr random its about right and wrong not skin colour! In NZ anyway.
That's rather stretching it - if you're white, you're more right, if you're brown, you're down!

[Hitcher]

Yeah, but there's a lot of sympathy amongst the silent majority in this country for any white man who kills a brown man. Just the way it works, eh.

That certainly appears to be the case in terms of how the Sensible Sentencing Trust comments on things. I think that the circumstances of this case are little different to the drive-by shooting that resulted in the tragic death of Jhia Te Tua.

I disagree with the manslaughter charge in this particular case. The offender took a knife with him which, I believe, was for the purposes of injuring whoever he succeeded in apprehending. On that basis, I think his sentence is more than reasonable.

[Reckless]

Meanwhile the same sentence is handed down to another 50 yr old for the vicious abuse of Nia Glassie...something isn't right...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10556503

yeh mate you got that right! fuckin stinks! No excuse for abusing a kid! NONE! should be 40 years!

[98tls]

That's rather stretching it - if you're white, you're more right, if you're brown, you're down! If your brown and have an opinion then it seems your entilted to it if your white and have an opinion your racist,go figure.

[98tls]

Meanwhile the same sentence is handed down to another 50 yr old for the vicious abuse of Nia Glassie...something isn't right...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10556503 Yea was thinking the same.

[Reckless]

That's rather stretching it - if you're white, you're more right, if you're brown, you're down!


Not what I meant Sp. Don't quite know how you read that into it? I meant skin colour should have nothing whatsoever to do with it.

I actually agree with what Quasi said here

It however isnt something I can tolerate (ya know one of those things) when Racisit remarks are made, its not a positive thing at all in any regard and I think that way way to many people in NZ let loose with remarks like that (this is not a personal attack dude) far to often. Its Anti Kiwi in my books and if we all say such things this country will go backwards and fast, I dont want that in my country.

[Hitcher]

Meanwhile the same sentence is handed down to another 50 yr old for the vicious abuse of Nia Glassie...something isn't right...



Chalk and cheese. The two oxygen thieves directly responsible for Nia's death are doing serious jail time. This charge is for a previous assault against Nia, not for causing her death.

[mikeey01]

We must start finding ways to make parents responsible. Its the only way to break the cycle.

How? ( I don't know the answers, hence the question)

Take this bloke, his parents can't be held responsible can they?

I'm sure this muppett knew the difference between right and wrong, did he take / grab a knife as some form of protection? Was it an accident or a mistake to seek protection with a weapon?
I'd say he knew that a knife can kill, what ever his intentions were, quite simple someone tagged his fence, time and time again and he has taken a life for this! Was it a complete error, holding knife and tagger lunged into him? whatever his intent was.....The fact still remains, a life has been taken because of a some paint, that's so so sad.
No parents should ever have to bury their children, what's sad is so many are haveing too!

There are many parents in this country that don't care, are not interested, have already lost control of their kids long ago.
On the other hand there are many parents that do care, take ownership of and involvement in when it comes to right and wrong, discipline and the like.

I'm not sure if I've got this right, something keeps coming back to it...
It appears the problem starts when kids are young, by the time they are young adults the parents have already lost control, can't do a thing about it and have lost any hope in gaining it again!

It's these teenage years that appear to be the most dangerous, are the most frightening for any parent to go into. (influences, pair pressure aside)

Speaking and asking some questions as a parent here....
Does it matter who and what others kids you allow your child to spend time with and play with? Does it have any influence on their behaviour?
How do the parents among us feel about their children and being selective about who they play with and spend time with?

[Cynos]

In a case like this, what the heck is a prison sentence going to prove? The guy is not a criminal and is no threat to the community (taggers maybe). Home detention would have been a better choice.

The mother of the tagger gets no sympathy from me.

You don't get to kill someone just because they're breaking the law. Otherwise I'm going to start taking potshots at everyone who tailgates me.

[Cynos]

Yeah, but there's a lot of sympathy amongst the silent majority in this country for any white man who kills a brown man. Just the way it works, eh.


Like how those gang members who shot at a house and killed a two year old got done for murder, whereas this man stabs someone and gets manslaughter. On an unrelated note, if I ever commit a serious crime, I'm going to hire Chris Comesky, 4 years for murder (yeah, yeah, the jury decided manslaughter, which shows how pro Comesky is) is a sweet deal, he'll be out in about 1.5 if he's already spent time in custody.

[MisterD]

Chalk and cheese. The two oxygen thieves directly responsible for Nia's death are doing serious jail time. This charge is for a previous assault against Nia, not for causing her death.

In my book he's equally culpable as his sons, I won't accept that his vicious abuse did nothing to set a precedent which lead to the death of Nia...

The death of the tagger was a typical disaster scenario where changing any one of a string of variables (scrotes stayed home, householder grabbed baseball bat, scrotes kept running) would have meant +1 to the current population of worthless scrotes in South Auckland.

[Finn]

You don't get to kill someone just because they're breaking the law. Otherwise I'm going to start taking potshots at everyone who tailgates me.

No entirely correct. It depends which law they're breaking.

Tagging is probably stretching it a bit but that area of the death is tag free for now. Funny what it takes to get the message across sometimes.

[MisterD]

Like how those gang members who shot at a house and killed a two year old got done for murder, whereas this man stabs someone and gets manslaughter. On an unrelated note, if I ever commit a serious crime, I'm going to hire Chris Comesky, 4 years for murder (yeah, yeah, the jury decided manslaughter, which shows how pro Comesky is) is a sweet deal, he'll be out in about 1.5 if he's already spent time in custody.

Bollocks. Grabbing a knife might show intent to injure, or intent to wound but if you fire a gun into a house there is a reasonable expectation that anyone hit could well be killed. That is the difference between murder and manslaughter.

[imdying]

You don't get to kill someone just because they're breaking the law. Otherwise I'm going to start taking potshots at everyone who tailgates me.

Ya know, they way they drive here in Chch, I wouldn't blame you.

[Cynos]

Bollocks. Grabbing a knife might show intent to injure, or intent to wound That is the difference between murder and manslaughter.

Right, so stabbing someone doesn't show an intent to kill? Don't tell me you believed that "he fell on my knife" rubbish?

[Beemer]

...I disagree with the manslaughter charge in this particular case. The offender took a knife with him which, I believe, was for the purposes of injuring whoever he succeeded in apprehending. On that basis, I think his sentence is more than reasonable.

I can understand where you are coming from there. Still doesn't explain why that prick Curtis got only four years for his part in the murder of Nia Glassie.

[MisterD]

Right, so stabbing someone doesn't show an intent to kill? Don't tell me you believed that "he fell on my knife" rubbish?

You mean you believe that "he was backing away" rubbish the scrote's relative gave as evidence?

I think the taggers ran for a little bit, turned to attack the householder and in the confusion one of them copped the knife in the ribs...that does not equate to murder in my book.

[HenryDorsetCase]

You mean you believe that "he was backing away" rubbish the scrote's relative gave as evidence?

I think the taggers ran for a little bit, turned to attack the householder and in the confusion one of them copped the knife in the ribs...that does not equate to murder in my book.

Good thing the conviction was mans laughter then.

;)

Also, we should have a whip-round and get him a medal he can have when he gets out.

[HenryDorsetCase]

+1

Dont do the crime if you cant do the time, which in this case is 4 years.

A long time on the inside for sure, but 2 wrongs dont make a right, and taking another life for a bit of vandalism is excessive.

I mean, if he had have dealt out a flogging to the tagger with his fists then, ok, maybe - people overreact, but if you go into a fight with a knife, then you are there to kill or maim. He got what he deserves. No more, no less IMO

he won't SERVE 4 years, surely ?

if he has been in custody (has he?) he might get a credit for that, plus he gets time off for good behaviour and he will end up in a min. security facility pretty quick.

He's just like Cameron Poe in the wonderful film "Con-Air", a Jerry Bruckheimer classic.

[Headbanger]

You mean you believe that "he was backing away" rubbish the scrote's relative gave as evidence?

I think the taggers ran for a little bit, turned to attack the householder and in the confusion one of them copped the knife in the ribs...that does not equate to murder in my book.

So, If someone chased you down the street with a knife, You stop and confront him, he manages to stab you in the heart with the knife he had grabbed to stab you with, You die.

You wouldn't consider yourself murdered?

Granted the "backing away" claim is as stupid as the "he ran onto the knife" defence, But neither change the fact an adult used a knife to kill a child.

Knives are a tool for the weak at the best of times, Let alone in the case of this pathetic twat.

[jrandom]

Knives are a tool for the weak at the best of times...

I'd like to see you get a dish of carrots ready for roasting with nothing but spoons and forks.

[MisterD]

So, If someone chased you down the street with a knife, You stop and confront him, he manages to stab you in the heart with the knife he had grabbed to stab you with, You die.

You wouldn't consider yourself murdered?

Granted the "backing away" claim is as stupid as the "he ran onto the knife" defence, But neither change the fact an adult used a knife to kill a child.

Knives are a tool for the weak at the best of times, Let alone in the case of this pathetic twat.

You're setting up a hypothetical situation - why am I being chased, what have I done to provoke it, in what way am I confronting the chaser?

The general pattern with people attacked with knives is defensive wounds to the hands, how has a fat 50yr old got close enough to fatally stab the tagger?

The jury heard the evidence from both sides and came to a verdict - I happen to agree with it, the bloke grabbed a weapon with intent to injure and ended up killing the tagger - that's pretty much a textbook definition of manslaughter.

I also agree with Finn, that locking the bloke in prison serves no good purpose and cost society money for no benefit. Far better to give him home detention and community service.

[Murray]

Far better to give him home detention and community service.

Maybe he could clean up all the tagging around Auckland??? (one way or another)

[enigma51]

I dont have the time to read everyone's comments so i might be repeating

I believe in do the crime do the time but what gets me about this is that the neo glacie case got off lightly where this guy got thrown the book. Home detention etc would have been a more fitting verdict.

[peasea]

I haven't got all the evidence in front of me but glancing at the media jury's expose` I have to say home d probably would have been a tad light. Some time inside is warranted because he took a knife into the street. Sure, he might have thought (in the heat of the moment) that the perps might have had knives etc and we can all sympathise with him getting hot under the collar. These little twats get away with all sorts of shite and the cops are too busy doing the ticket thing to respond in time to nail them. Even if they do nail them the judges are soft cocks. It's the ambualnce at the bottom of the cliff all the bloody time. In all seriousness; I think he got an ok sentence, a shame it had to come to this though. He'll be out and about in less than two years I'd wager.

Playing the race card in serious court cases could be avoided by blindfolding the jury and fitting them with headphones to hear the case read to them. That way skin colour would have no bearing on the case and neither would the accused's accent. Generally speaking it's not hard to pick a Maori, German or Russian accent, is it? If you don't like Ruskies it won't matter if all you can hear is a kiwi reading the blurb.

Right about old man Curtis; he laid the foundation for a lot of the behaviour of his boys I'd say. I'm guessing of course but it's likely there was a cycle in that family that was headed for tragedy eventually. It's just one hell of a shame that a toddler (or any one for that matter) was the victim of some very screwed up people.

How do you MAKE people care? How do you MAKE people think before they act? (Like that twat who picked up a toddler by the head the other day.) Many might say that the tagger got his just desserts but tagging isn't raping old ladies and as a teenager he might, just might, have come out ok in later life; many do.

We'll never know.

What we do know is that one guy will serve some time for the tagger's death and have to live with the consequences of his actions for the rest of his life. He was pushed to his limit, tired of having his property tagged, and some people can be pushed further than others. Given the same situation I would probably have taken a baseball bat but a swing in the wrong direction could see me in the dock on the same charge. "I held the bat up and he ran into it" probably wouldn't stand up as a defence either.

Bottom line? I think the sentence was fair.

[Headbanger]

You're setting up a hypothetical situation - why am I being chased, what have I done to provoke it, in what way am I confronting the chaser?

You don't need a back story, it changes nothing.

Fact is the fat man chased someone with a knife, when they came to a stop he embedded it in his chest and killed him.

Having said that, I'm not fussed if he got done for manslaughter rather then murder, I done worse as a teenager then paint somebodies fence yet don't think I ever done anything bad enough to be killed over.

[XxKiTtiExX]

And you refer to him as a Darkie which makes you a what exactly?



a whitey!!

[jrandom]

a whitey!!

And then there's the whiteys who are only white on the outside...

[1 Free Man]

In a case like this, what the heck is a prison sentence going to prove? The guy is not a criminal and is no threat to the community (taggers maybe). Home detention would have been a better choice.

The mother of the tagger gets no sympathy from me.
Only he big time crim's get home D. If the guy had a "P" business that he had to keep running and couldn't do it from inside he would have got home 'D'. He is just a baggy arse TAGGA STABBA so he don't get it. You see how it works now??? The bigger the crime the easier the time that's the rule of thumb for the justice system.

[Reckless]

I dont have the time to read everyone's comments so i might be repeating

I believe in do the crime do the time but what gets me about this is that the neo glacie case got off lightly where this guy got thrown the book. Home detention etc would have been a more fitting verdict.

My only thought on this is the judge knows the system and might be banking on an appeal and Home detention being the eventual outcome. I dunno! But it seems to send the wrong message overall! There must have been some intent proven in court?? But it could be as simple as the prosecution lawyer was totally better than the defence lawyer and the poor bastard copped it! He could have well said something silly (or true) to the cops immediatly after the event that went against him and proved intent?
We can't judge that, we don't know! No kid deserves to die for tagging but its certainly that event that kicked this whole sorry saga off. We can debate why kids are out with spray cans in the first place, what we can do about it, and who may be responsable for that!

[XxKiTtiExX]

And then there's the whiteys who are only white on the outside...


Where I live might explain that :bleh:

[jrandom]

Where I live might explain that :bleh:

Ah, the Norfland Inner Tan (tm). It seems to be catching!

:sunny:

[MisterD]

You don't need a back story, it changes nothing.

Fact is the fat man chased someone with a knife, when they came to a stop he embedded it in his chest and killed him.

Having said that, I'm not fussed if he got done for manslaughter rather then murder, I done worse as a teenager then paint somebodies fence yet don't think I ever done anything bad enough to be killed over.

Au contrer, provocation and intent are very important issues when it comes to the difference between manslaughter and murder. The later requires intent to be proven.

[JimO]

So, If someone chased you down the street with a knife, You stop and confront him, he manages to stab you in the heart with the knife he had grabbed to stab you with, You die.

You wouldn't consider yourself murdered?

Granted the "backing away" claim is as stupid as the "he ran onto the knife" defence, But neither change the fact an adult used a knife to kill a child.

Knives are a tool for the weak at the best of times, Let alone in the case of this pathetic twat.

you seen the size of some 15 year olds

[Finn]

And then there's the whiteys who are only white on the outside...

I blame the black person inside me for all my wrong doings. The only person that truly appreciates him is my girlfriend.

[Cynos]

You mean you believe that "he was backing away" rubbish the scrote's relative gave as evidence?

I think the taggers ran for a little bit, turned to attack the householder and in the confusion one of them copped the knife in the ribs...that does not equate to murder in my book.

I chased them 300m into a cul-de-sac while carrying a knife and then defended myself, your Honour. Somehow it doesn't strike me as self-defense if you chased them down the road.

[MisterD]

I chased them 300m into a cul-de-sac while carrying a knife and then defended myself, your Honour. Somehow it doesn't strike me as self-defense if you chased them down the road.

How many times do I have to say this? Self defence is irrelevant to the discussion (except that if the jury had believed it was self-defence he would have been found not guilty of anything), for it to be murder, intent must be proved. It wasn't, therefore manslaughter is the correct verdict.:argh:

He grabbed a knife (stupid, I'd have grabbed my shillelagh or a 7-iron) with the aim of frightening the little buggers, who knows what happened between the point that the scrotes stopped running and the fatal wound occurred? I bet even the protagonists can't remember clearly.

[Cynos]

How many times do I have to say this? Self defence is irrelevant to the discussion (except that if the jury had believed it was self-defence he would have been found not guilty of anything), for it to be murder, intent must be proved. It wasn't, therefore manslaughter is the correct verdict.:argh:

He grabbed a knife (stupid, I'd have grabbed my shillelagh or a 7-iron) with the aim of frightening the little buggers, who knows what happened between the point that the scrotes stopped running and the fatal wound occurred? I bet even the protagonists can't remember clearly.

I find chasing them for 300m with a knife pretty compelling evidence of intent. But anyway, even for manslaughter, 4 years is low. You get longer for armed robberies where everyone leaves unharmed.

[Hoon]

+1

Dont do the crime if you cant do the time, which in this case is 4 years.

A long time on the inside for sure, but 2 wrongs dont make a right, and taking another life for a bit of vandalism is excessive.
Agree +2.

Win/win as far as I'm concerned, two less scumbag crims on the street.

Sure they paid dearly for their crimes (one life lost and the other ruined) but call me harsh I'm struggling to find any sympathy for either.

They both chose the path they took - just didn't quite end up where they wanted.

[Dave Lobster]

No kid deserves to die for tagging!

Rubbish. Anyone out deliberately vandalising property, that someone has worked to pay for, deserves to die.

[Reckless]

Self defence is irrelevant to the discussion (except that if the jury had believed it was self-defence he would have been found not guilty of anything), for it to be murder, intent must be proved. It wasn't, therefore manslaughter is the correct verdict.:argh:

Self defense may still be relevant if that's what actually happened no matter what the jury believed. What sort of intent are we talking here intent to see them off, intent to scare the shit out of them or intent to commit murder!
Obviously intent to commit murder wasn't proved hence the manslaughter conviction but that doesn't mean self defense wasn't relevant it just means it wasn't proven. Hence the 4 year sentence. And that could have been swung by some of the things I mentioned in my earlier post or simply just bad luck during the court process ie good/bad lawyers, good or bad witnesses, or even straight out lies in court.
I must confess I spoke to this guy about 2 weeks before the trial on the phone about a spa pool cover for my spa, he said he couldn't book me in because of going to court, I found out it was this case and spoke in general terms to him about it. He maintained self defense then, said they turned on him in a big way, but we did not go into detail so I know no more facts. We went on to talk about how a lot of out there kids are bought up to think they are above the law, do what they want, when they want and often dish out there own street justice. He could have had his "story" straight by then, but I believed him. Obviously the jury didn't. So maybe he said something after that went against him, or said things in the past or all the witnesses at the actual event where for the prosecution and it was just to much to prove self defense. Again I dunno! but the kid shouldn't have been damaging his property in the first place I reckon. And no ones thought to mention how his family are going to fair while he's inside. There's more than one casualty here because the kid was out on the loose!
A sad affair but preventable in so many ways! Its actually a statement of where we are at in NZ. Little shits running round damaging property etc, 50 year olds picking up knives because they've have a gutsful and the boys turning on him to give him a good kicking (if you believe him) cause there's no real consequences for tagging etc crimes anymore at home or in court? Unfortunately this kid paid with his life!

[Morcs]

you seen the size of some 15 year olds

Not to mention they are mouthy shits and will quite happily attempt to start a fight with grown men.

[JimO]

the pic they keep showing of the dead tagger wont be what he looked like on the night

[Quasievil]

Rubbish. Anyone out deliberately vandalising property, that someone has worked to pay for, deserves to die.


Oh yeah and what level justifies getting murdered for can you tell us??
Just so the courts know what level is acceptable .........idiot

[peasea]

Oh yeah and what level justifies getting murdered for can you tell us??
Just so the courts know what level is acceptable .........idiot

Any wilful damage to a motorcycle.

[Owl]

the pic they keep showing of the dead tagger wont be what he looked like on the night

Mmmm looked like butter wouldn't melt!

[Mom]

I think he was lucky to get what get got really. Lets face it, he was pissed off with his property being tagged all the time. One day he decided to do something about it, so, as you do he took a knife outside with him to confront these little arseholes. They took off, he chased them. About then one of them turned around approached him and fell into the knife.

OK.

He took a knife outside, that was deliberate. Yes to defend himself if you want to go there, but he was the one with the knife. I reckon he is lucky not to have been convicted of murder frankly.

As far as comparing him to the filth that killed Nia Glasie, not even remotely similar. This man made a poor choice and killed someone in the process, the others I cant even find words for, hope they get Gen Pop with no protection.

[PrincessBandit]

Hmmm. I want to be able to live in a society where I can walk down the street at night without fear of intimidation or injury (or worse), where I can take pride in my home and feel safe in it, where I can leave my car/bike parked and know that when I return to it it will still be there, unscathed.

Unfortunately people like me have no rights. I am a law abiding citizen, not racist, work hard and pay my taxes etc etc etc etc etc yadda yadda. Yet I am in the average majority where when I become a victim of crime (and yes I have been a number of times) the police are too busy to do much about it. Then to rub salt into the wound fucking offenders get more attention and blathering on about their rights as if they can fucking do what they like and the rest of us have to bend over, take it, and say "thank you very much for fucking me over. Please do it again whenever you like because I'm powerless to stop you from doing it".

:mad:
p.s. I don't usually use the f word very often but this just gets me really mad....

[Winston001]

Emery said he grabbed the knife before leaving the house because he wanted to catch the taggers and was worried they would have knives. Sounds rational and a bit brave, so he must have been very pissed off.

Thats all understandable. Then he chased them down the road quite a distance. Gets rather hard by then to argue self defence - but it could still work. The boy turns to face him......and from there we don't really know.

Emery was foolish to confront two young men at night by himself. He brought this situation on himself. All very well to argue he was in danger - but he pursued that potential danger. Chasing them with the knife was his mistake.

No human being deserves to die for spraying paint on a wall.

Sad all around. Not much milk of human kindness in the mother either.

4 years for manslaughter (which is negligently causing death) seems pretty fair.

[Ixion]

There is an old maxim that hard cases make bad law. One suspects that the jury were split between those who held it to be murder , and those who declared it to be self defence, and agreed to compromise.

[Quasievil]

Any wilful damage to a motorcycle.


mmm now you make a valid point actually damn you!!

[Skyryder]

There is an old maxim that hard cases make bad law. One suspects that the jury were split between those who held it to be murder , and those who declared it to be self defence, and agreed to compromise.

Chasing someone with a knife seem like a clear case of intent to me.

But you are probabley right

Skyryder

[FROSTY]

I read this thread and I ask Myself --"what would YOU have done in that guys shoes?"
I picture myself looking out my kitchen window seeing my fence tagged for the 10th time.
Im looking at two youths dressed in hoodies that in my minds eye are 6 foot tall and probably hopped up on 'P" or some other drug.
I look for something to defend myself with knowing full well the 9 calls I've made recently to the cops acheived nothing.
Would I have grabbed a kitchen knife and given chase??
Ya know i honestly don't know
How many here can look inside themselves and say honestly "i wouldn't have done that??

[Winston001]

Hmmm. I want to be able to live in a society where I can walk down the street at night without fear of intimidation or injury (or worse)........

Unfortunately people like me have no rights. I am a law abiding citizen, .....when I become a victim of crime.......the police are too busy to do much about it. Then to rub salt into the wound fucking offenders get more attention and blathering on about their rights .......
:mad:


You are expressing the frustration of the silent majority and I feel the same way. But we do have rights and they are enforced, just not as well as we'd like. Ultimately the parents aren't teaching respect for others. And you know what - respect for others is often missing on this forum so no surprise the kids don't get it.

When you (or your child) find yourself on the wrong side of the law, you'll be glad of the protections that exist. And you'll be glad that the judicial system has the capacity for mercy in sentencing.

I heard a judge saying today that he'd just been at a US conference and the packed-out seminar - for judges - was on youth crime and violence. Its a problem everywhere and there aren't simple answers.

Maybe it's our hippie heritage coming back to haunt us. Karma is a bitch....:beer:

[MadDuck]

How many here can look inside themselves and say honestly "i wouldn't have done that??

I certainly do not condone what this guy did BUT.....having been through the last 6 months of white trash next door harrassing, tormenting and scaring the neighbourhood I guess I can kind of understand. I took steps to arm myself (not illegally) and that sure as hell is no way to live in ones own home. :no:

When pushed over and over again everyone has a breaking point.

[Winston001]

I read this thread and I ask Myself --"what would YOU have done in that guys shoes?"
I picture myself looking out my kitchen window seeing my fence tagged for the 10th time.
Im looking at two youths dressed in hoodies that in my minds eye are 6 foot tall and probably hopped up on 'P" or some other drug.
I look for something to defend myself with knowing full well the 9 calls I've made recently to the cops acheived nothing.
Would I have grabbed a kitchen knife and given chase??
Ya know i honestly don't know
How many here can look inside themselves and say honestly "i wouldn't have done that??

Yep but how about grabbing a camera and photographing the offenders. Gotta worry them - and give the police less excuse not to act.

[Finn]

Yep but how about grabbing a camera and photographing the offenders. Gotta worry them - and give the police less excuse not to act.

Bit of a contrast issue taking photo's of them at night don't you think? Unless of course there's some fancy dental imagery recognition system around that I don't know about.

[FROSTY]

Winston thats the SENSIBLE answer. But look inside yaself and ask if you WOULD do the sensible thing.

[Mom]

How many here can look inside themselves and say honestly "i wouldn't have done that??

Me. There is no way on earth I would have been foolish enough to confront these little shits armed with a knife. Tagging fences etc is not life threatening, it is annoying and frustrating and expensive to repair, but not life threatening.


When pushed over and over again everyone has a breaking point.

You did well love, horrible situation, but you took the legal and long time to take effect steps to get that situation resolved. You live in a good area, you experienced a very bad situation in an otherwose great place to be.

This poor bastard lived in a hole. Personally, I would have upped my family and got the hell right away from there if I had been him.

[Manxman]

I dunnoooooo.

There may be some of that, but I also think that if it'd been a white teenager in West Auckland who'd been stabbed and killed by a brown homeowner whose garage he'd been tagging, the crowd in this thread would be baying for blood.

Not me. A tagger is a tagger is an arsewipe, whatever colour/shape they come in.

[Headbanger]

How many here can look inside themselves and say honestly "I wouldn't have done that??

I can.

But I would have been happy to whack em with my bat. Taken it outside with me quite a few times. But even then I stash it when I get out the front while I take in the situation.

Presenting a bat raises the stakes, Presenting a knife just makes things deadly.

That and there ain't no way in hell I'm running 300m, Not unless the entire street was on fire......

[davereid]

He didn't stab a tagger.

He confronted a tagger, as all citizens should do.

He stabbed a person who was attempting to kill him.

He needs a medal.

[jrandom]

He stabbed a person who was attempting to kill him...

... with a can of spray paint?

:blink:

[Swoop]

Will someone please stab the dickhead's mother!

She is fucking annoying.

[MadDuck]

... with a can of spray paint?

Well they must be a lethal weapon as it is now illegal to sell them to under 18 year olds

[nz_rider]

i dont condone what emery did but i agree with what has been said here, a home detention sentence would have been far more appropriate. he is not a risk to society at large and i very much doubt that he will ever reoffend.
and i agree where was the childs mother while he was being brought up. if morals had been installed in the kid then he wouldnt have been out there tagging other peoples property. some people work very hard for their property and take extreme pride in what they have achieved. the last thing they need is to have a little scum bag tagging all over it.
the police need to get tougher on the little shits. instead of spending so much time busting people for stupid traffic offenses which harm no one they should be out there cleaning up the streets of scum.

[Ixion]

... with a can of spray paint?


Men have been killed with less. Suppose Mr Emery had been unarmed. And had been 'dealt to' by two large angry young men. Would we have been surprised if they had killed him? Knocked him down, and stomped on him. It's happened many times before. A genuine fear for one's life in such circumstances would not be unreasonable.

The knife was of course the 'great leveller'

But, much sympathy though I have for Mr Reid's position, I fear that legally it is dubious.

If you go out and deliberately get into a fight with someone, and find yourself on the losing end of it, and resort to a weapon, with fatal results, you will usually be guilty of murder. It is no defence (usually) to say "I did not actually intend to kill him, just to bash him up and hurt him a bit"

Now when Mr Emery rushed out of his house in pursuit of the taggers, did he really do so with the intent of discussing the artistic merits of their chiaroscuro ? One cannot help but think he meant to give them a hiding.

What he intended to do with the knife when he grabbed it is actually irrelevant. The position would have been the same had he found the knife conveniently lying on the ground at the scene of the confrontation (OK, knifes aren't usually found lying on the ground - say a broken bottle instead, just as lethal) .

Which , logically, makes me feel self defence an untenable argument. But had I been on the jury, my heart would have declared "If you join in finding him guilty of murder I shall stop beating in protest". Unfortunately there is no verdict of "Serves the little shit right". So head and heart must disagree.

Which is where I suspect the jury found itself, and settled for a compromise that has little legal logic.

[James Deuce]

I hope that sentence has caught the attention of the KB Vigilante, Posse forming, Hunting and Shooting anyone who isn't like me clan.

[peasea]

... with a can of spray paint?

:blink:

Carcinogenic that shit

[peasea]

I hope that sentence has caught the attention of the KB Vigilante, Posse forming, Hunting and Shooting anyone who isn't like me clan.

Not a hope, they're all watching Coro

[Brett]

The mother of the tagger gets no sympathy from me.

All I heard from her is how much hate she feels towards the guy that stabbed her son. I too, have no sympathy for her or her dead son. Maybe the guy shouldn't have killed the kid, but I am sure he finally got sick and tired of their mess in his neighbourhood. Had the mother been a better parent, i doubt this would have happened in the first place.

Come try tag my fence mother f%%%er.

[Indoo]

He didn't stab a tagger.

He confronted a tagger, as all citizens should do.

He stabbed a person who was attempting to kill him.

He needs a medal.

He killed a skinny 16 year old kid who had a shit childhood, with no father figure and a mum forced to work overseas to support them, brought up in a no hope street with no hope friends with none of the opportunities those who celebrate his death had. You really think Emery's that much of a hero for picking up a knife, chasing down a kid like that and stabbing them to death all for the heinous crime of drawing on his fence?

[wbks]

Boo fucking hoo indoo. Wouldn't have been "poor kid" when he's a little older and stabs a few people for himself, would it?

[MadDuck]

had a shit childhood, with no father figure and a mum forced to work overseas to support them, brought up in a no hope street with no hope friends with none of the opportunities those who celebrate his death had.

Having been brought up in a similar set or circumstances - it is not an excuse. No matter how bad life is we all know right from wrong. Whether we choose to ignore it or take it on board is "our" decision.


You really think Emery's that much of a hero for picking up a knife, chasing down a kid like that and stabbing them to death all for the heinous crime of drawing on his fence?

No. He is not a hero. Just an average bloke pushed to the limit in my opinion but I was not in court and dont know all the facts.

[Manxman]

Having been brought up in a similar set or circumstances - it is not an excuse. No matter how bad life is we all know right from wrong. Whether we choose to ignore it or take it on board is "our" decision.

Well said.:headbang:

[Dave Lobster]

He killed a skinny 16 year old kid who had a shit childhood, with no father figure and a mum forced to work overseas to support them, brought up in a no hope street with no hope friends with none of the opportunities those who celebrate his death had.

There's always some excuse, isn't there?

[peasea]

There's always some excuse, isn't there?

Yup; what's yours? Ever done anything a 'bit' bad?

[Dave Lobster]

Yup; what's yours? Ever done anything a 'bit' bad?

Damaged someone's property? Nope..

Gone out at night with the intention of getting up to no good..? Nope..

Chosen to take up a criminal way of life..? Nope..

[wbks]

Beat the crap out of a pizza delivery man once...

[peasea]

Damaged someone's property? Nope..

Gone out at night with the intention of getting up to no good..? Nope..

Chosen to take up a criminal way of life..? Nope..

Ok, none of the above 'intentionally' but c'mon, things happen; especially when drugs (like alcohol) are involved. Ya can't tell me you're a saint coz I don't believe it.

[bull]

I hope that sentence has caught the attention of the KB Vigilante, Posse forming, Hunting and Shooting anyone who isn't like me clan.

Think you had a typo in your spelling of the word clan - from the KB undertones it would be more relevant as Klan.

The guy killed someone - thats wrong and hes doing time for it. Yes i reckon hes good for confronting them but to take a fricking knife and use it is just plain dumb.

Personally i would have yelled obscenities to get them to leave the area and ring the cops - about all you can do without dire consequences.

[riffer]

Yeah agree with you there dude. A startling lack of intelligence displayed by a few on this thread.

Personally I think he was bloody lucky to only get four years. Not that the kid was a saint either.

I just don't get the fuss with all this tagging shit. Seems infantile to me. Not worth killing someone over for sure.

The whole thing is just one big fuckup by both parties. What a waste.

On a slightly less serious note, it's interesting this thread has reached 8 pages and over a hundred posts and yet has attracted no tags as yet... :|

[Paul in NZ]

Oh gawd....

Actually - 4 to 5 years is a pretty average sentence for manslaughter in NZ.

Problem is - we all look at this case veiwed through our own life lived experiences so we assume the 52 yr old white business man is a crazed facist stalking an innocent cherubic coloured kid out for a golly jape or at the other extreme a decent family bloke was defending his property against a couple of right little thugs with no respect.

Um - a Judge (who sees this shit daily) and a Jury have examined ALL the evidence presented and made a decision NOT based on their own lives.

They have agreed that the was no preformed intent to murder and that means manslaughter AND 4.3 years is a pretty average sentence for manslaughter AND the judge went to great lengths to explain why...

Erm - seems like a fair result - no ones happy!

[RDJ]

The level of redneck fucking attitude on this forum is mindblowing

Charming. If you have an argument, then make it please.

[RDJ]

:Playnice:
I just don't get the fuss with all this tagging shit. Seems infantile to me. Not worth killing someone over for sure.

Certainly not worth a killing by anybody, or of anybody.

But tagging is hardly infantile in terms of its results.

A while back elderly relatives were harassed by "juvenile" taggers painting fairly nasty graffiti. Repeatedly. Police said they could not act after the fact, and could not prevent the fact, and would not take action even when photos given of taggers in the act.

Cleaning up after said taggers stole about 40 hours total of our time, and about 400$ in paint etc. That's not just tagging, that's theft of time and money.

Tagging is not victimless. If you have to work for 40 hours to replace a bike accessory somebdy stole, then working 40 hours to repair damage somebody did is in terms of your life, pretty much an equal loss.

Not so?

:Playnice:

[Laxi]

simply if you pull a knife you had better damn well be prepared to use it, he obviously was so he should be prepared to do the time, he got off bloody lightly

[Skyryder]

Wonder if the same jury would feel the same with assault.

Not guilty your Honour as the victim fell on the fist/boot etc of the accused.

Skyryder

[98tls]

Yeah agree with you there dude. A startling lack of intelligence displayed by a few on this thread.

Personally I think he was bloody lucky to only get four years. Not that the kid was a saint either.

I just don't get the fuss with all this tagging shit. Seems infantile to me. Not worth killing someone over for sure.

The whole thing is just one big fuckup by both parties. What a waste.

On a slightly less serious note, it's interesting this thread has reached 8 pages and over a hundred posts and yet has attracted no tags as yet... :| Go figure...........another that sees this as simply tagging,wake the fuck up,ive read some shit in this thread but this takes the cake,read the papers watch the news, if you really need to look up the stats theres only one ethnic group thats fucked this country and the sooner you at least call a spade a spade the better so it can be dealt with but no lets all just carry on shelling out for the fuckers via welfare,racist be fucked,hater of bludgers fuckin eh yea i am and in my years the worst of them are niggers,until you provide proof that changes my opinion of them then it wont.Happy to be proven wrong............until then all you cunts that cry racist need to front up or shut the fuck up.Simple really.Signed one sick of being fucked over by black cunts pretending to be Kiwis white boy.Good chance for the hippies to chuck some red shit about.

[Owl]

Signed one sick of being fucked over by black cunts pretending to be Kiwis white boy.Good chance for the hippies to chuck some red shit about.

Easy Tiger!

[98tls]

Easy Tiger! If only it was that simple,personally i couldnt give a fuck about there shit i am just tired of having to pay for it.Surely theres others that feel the same way?

[chucky19]

Lets not forget the Islander chick in Dunedin who put her newborn baby in a shopping bag and threw it out the window to die. Walked away with a suspended sentence and then got her conviction quashed so she could continue her studies.
Killing is killing in the eyes of the law. It's the public and the judiciary's view of the case that influences the sentence.
Colour, race, money don't matter. If you're a bad bastard then you do the time.

[Owl]

How many here can look inside themselves and say honestly "i wouldn't have done that??

Decisions decisions Frosty; which knife to take?

If I did, I think I’d have taken a steel in the other hand, as I was of course sharpening a knife at the time!:whistle:

[Tank]

I see that the sister is in the paper this morning.

"I just sit around getting drunk and stoned now Ive dropped out of school" - thats in the victim impact statement.

Since she's under age - the cops should be knocking on her door and doing her for possession, and under age drinking.

[Scouse]

He killed a skinny 16 year old kid who had a shit childhood, with no father figure and a mum forced to work overseas to support them, brought up in a no hope street with no hope friends with none of the opportunities those who celebrate his death had. You really think Emery's that much of a hero for picking up a knife, chasing down a kid like that and stabbing them to death all for the heinous crime of drawing on his fence?Gee if that's how you feel maybe you should leave the Police force to become a Social Worker. You sound like the sort of cop that would rather give out a speeding ticket than do some real police work like arresting real criminals.

[Dave Lobster]

Go figure...........another that sees this as simply tagging,wake the fuck up,ive read some shit in this thread but this takes the cake,read the papers watch the news, if you really need to look up the stats theres only one ethnic group thats fucked this country and the sooner you at least call a spade a spade the better so it can be dealt with but no lets all just carry on shelling out for the fuckers via welfare,racist be fucked,hater of bludgers fuckin eh yea i am and in my years the worst of them are niggers,until you provide proof that changes my opinion of them then it wont.Happy to be proven wrong............until then all you cunts that cry racist need to front up or shut the fuck up.Simple really.Signed one sick of being fucked over by black cunts pretending to be Kiwis white boy.Good chance for the hippies to chuck some red shit about.

"You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later."

[Indoo]

Yeh I guess dealing with kids like him on a day to day basis and not thumping my chest and raving like some backward hick about how they all deserve to die makes me pretty soft compared to all the death penalty proponents on here. The kid was a stupid drunken idiot and deserved a good whack, not a knife to the chest. Imagine the outcry if some dairy owner chased down and stabbed to death a white middle class kid who stole a bag of chips?

I last gave out a ticket some 3 years ago, my job is and has been for the past 6 years on the frontline locking people up, it just happens that when you do that for any length of time and see the environment the kids of crims grow up in that things aren't always as black and white as they seem on the outside.

[Dave Lobster]

.....white middle class kid who stole a bag of chips?

And that happens a lot, does it?

[Indoo]

And that happens a lot, does it?

Yes, specifically females.

[Dave Lobster]

Yes, specifically females.

Maybe a few dairy owners should be knocking them on the head with something hard then.. to stop them escaping before the police get there

[MaxB]

He killed a skinny 16 year old kid who had a shit childhood, with no father figure and a mum forced to work overseas to support them, brought up in a no hope street with no hope friends with none of the opportunities those who celebrate his death had.

Firstly nobody should die for tagging.

I know heaps of people in that part of Rewa. No hopers my arse. Most of the people I know there work, send their kids to good schools (James Cook isn't that flash anymore) and for the most part are conservative, church going types.

A small minority of those left are the shitbags but a lot of that is choice, they chose to live outside the system. Heaps of people have had garbage upbringings but choose not to lead a life of crime.

The problem with this kid was that he was already known to police (were you involved?) and his extended family had a heap of convictions. His tags were all over the area.

I don't know if you know the house but the garage/workshop is back from the roadway and that was repeatedly tagged. So people were coming onto his property not just to his fence line.

I'm guessing here but Emery probably felt under seige and Cameron just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[jrandom]

... when you do that for any length of time and see the environment the kids of crims grow up in that things aren't always as black and white as they seem on the outside.

Yeah, poor wee things.

Unfortunately, that's where the next generation of criminals comes from, innit?

Perhaps, as well as being put on a DNA database, being convicted of certain crimes should carry an automatic penalty of surgical sterilisation.

It'll never happen, but ain't it a nice dream...

[imdying]

Perhaps Leanne Cameron should've spent a few moments thinking about her son whilst bringing him up... too bloody late now woman.I see (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4847132a11.html) the stupid bitch has learnt nothing and is letting his sister fuck her life up too.

[candor]

I see that the sister is in the paper this morning.

"I just sit around getting drunk and stoned now Ive dropped out of school" - thats in the victim impact statement.

Since she's under age - the cops should be knocking on her door and doing her for possession, and under age drinking.

It's legal to drink at 1 day old or prior to birth and just as legal to supply it to your kids. Not legal for the kids to purchase it is all. Her experience is a common victim response, but ACC won't assist rehab as it wasn't classed murder.

[moT]

I believe that decision was a fair decision, killing is not a justifiable punishment for vandalism even if 'he did fall on the knife'. He was protecting his property so its fair he does not get the full prison sentence he will probably be out on parole in 1 year.

[Street Gerbil]

Can't think of a better illustration to my favorite maxim that a belt applied to hind quarters at 5 saves from gallows at 20. Right sentence applied to a wrong person. His mom must be punished for birthing a child and not raising him as a human being.

[Beemer]

I see that the sister is in the paper this morning.

"I just sit around getting drunk and stoned now Ive dropped out of school" - thats in the victim impact statement.

Since she's under age - the cops should be knocking on her door and doing her for possession, and under age drinking.

The mother had been quoted previously as saying she had tried to get help for her wayward son (Pihema) and yet now she is obviously allowing her daughter to play truant and drink and use drugs - is this yet another way she shows support for her 'wonderful' family?

I can't think of a more inappropriate way of 'honouring' her brother's death.

What's the bet they will all use this as an excuse to drop out of society (if they were ever a part of it in the first place - bet the ones who were old enough to work didn't anyway), sit on their arses and put their hands out for a benefit?

[JimO]

Yeh I guess dealing with kids like him on a day to day basis and not thumping my chest and raving like some backward hick about how they all deserve to die makes me pretty soft compared to all the death penalty proponents on here. The kid was a stupid drunken idiot and deserved a good whack, not a knife to the chest. Imagine the outcry if some dairy owner chased down and stabbed to death a white middle class kid who stole a bag of chips?

I last gave out a ticket some 3 years ago, my job is and has been for the past 6 years on the frontline locking people up, it just happens that when you do that for any length of time and see the environment the kids of crims grow up in that things aren't always as black and white as they seem on the outside.


it could have just as easily gone the other way with the two crims kicking Emery to death, its happened before and it will happen again

[Dave Lobster]

it could have just as easily gone the other way with the two crims kicking Emery to death, its happened before and it will happen again

I can imagine the headline now.. two natives kick white pig to death for stopping them expressing themselves.
Two days later it would all have been forgotten.

[Lias]

It should be non surprise to anyone who pays attention to my rantings that I'm firmly in the "give him a medal" camp on this one.

It wouldnt surprise me to find myself in his shoes one day. Until NZ becomes a civilized country and introduces castle laws, I will break the law if I find people commiting crimes against my property or my family.

And fuck a steak knife I keep a bloody great machete around, and if I catch some cunt tagging or trying to break into my house they are going to find themselves missing various appendages in short order.

[Lias]

Firstly nobody should die for tagging.
.

Says you.

I say kill the fuckers.

[Skyryder]

I see the Sensible Sentencing Trust wanted this 'killer' to get home detention.

I once had some sympathy for these guys. Not any more.

Skyryder

[98tls]

I see the Sensible Sentencing Trust wanted this 'killer' to get home detention.

I once had some sympathy for these guys. Not any more.

Skyryder It seems home detention is reserved for 5+ drink drivers,that way they still have access to cheap piss and can go on to murder someone whilst still under supervision.

[davereid]

It wouldnt surprise me to find myself in his shoes one day. Until NZ becomes a civilized country and introduces castle laws, I will break the law if I find people commiting crimes against my property or my family.

I won't ever be in his shoes.

If I discover someone destroying my property or attacking my family for the hundredth time, and they attack me intending to kill me, I won't call the police.

They never came the other 99 times.

I'll take the offender fishing.

After all, they are underpriviledged. The dole didn't give mum enough money, and even with free state housing, free medical, free dental, free Plunket, free Kindy, and free schools, they never had a chance. Dad, if they knew him never took them for a walk down the beach, to the footy, camping, or helped them build a hut.

But me, I'll take them fishing. They make good burley.

[Patrick]

He killed a skinny 16 year old kid who had a shit childhood, with no father figure and a mum forced to work overseas to support them, brought up in a no hope street with no hope friends with none of the opportunities those who celebrate his death had. You really think Emery's that much of a hero for picking up a knife, chasing down a kid like that and stabbing them to death all for the heinous crime of drawing on his fence?

You forgot that old time goodie... "he wasn't breast fed as a baby..."

BOLLOCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This kid, along with all the others, CHOSE which path to take.

Shit... my parents were chronic alcoholics, (meths drinking for one). I was brought up in west Auckland and played with the south Auckland kids of my dads mates....

Oportunities? What are they?

I made mine. That kid ignored his.

50 year old fat guy chases down a fit healthy 16 year old in 400 metres? Shit, he IS good....


Erm - seems like a fair result - no ones happy!

Can't please all of the people...................


:...A while back elderly relatives were harassed by "juvenile" taggers painting fairly nasty graffiti. Repeatedly. Police said they could not act after the fact, and could not prevent the fact, and would not take action even when photos given of taggers in the act.

...........

Not so?

:Playnice:

I believe "Not so...."

"Could not act after the fact?" Pfft.
"Could not prevent the fact?" Probably not.... Unless there is a cop available to stand next to every fence, building, bridge whatever, everywhere.......
"Would not take action even when photos given of taggers in the act? THAT is simply crap.


Yeh I guess dealing with kids like him on a day to day basis and not thumping my chest and raving like some backward hick about how they all deserve to die makes me pretty soft compared to all the death penalty proponents on here. The kid was a stupid drunken idiot and deserved a good whack, not a knife to the chest. Imagine the outcry if some dairy owner chased down and stabbed to death a white middle class kid who stole a bag of chips?

I last gave out a ticket some 3 years ago, my job is and has been for the past 6 years on the frontline locking people up, it just happens that when you do that for any length of time and see the environment the kids of crims grow up in that things aren't always as black and white as they seem on the outside.

See above. its all about choices. Both made bad choices.


I see that the sister is in the paper this morning.

"I just sit around getting drunk and stoned now Ive dropped out of school" - thats in the victim impact statement.

Since she's under age - the cops should be knocking on her door and doing her for possession, and under age drinking.

Nah... now she has an actual excuse to use for her shit behaviour. Probably was already getting drunk and stoned regularly and was going to drop out of school. This just made it easier for her. Poor wee poppit..... She'll be right. She will be on the benefit soon.


If I discover someone destroying my property or attacking my family for the hundredth time, and they attack me intending to kill me, I won't call the police.

They never came the other 99 times.



You must live in a shit area. 199 crimes in how long? I would move.

One would not make good burley if fresh.... However, if there were dozens of em, dropped into the same spot, you could make your own temporary reef.... Fishies like reefs.....

[SPman]

He was protecting his property
Bullshit, he was 200 m down the road from his property, with a weapon in his hand, actively pursuing someone. After he stabbed the guy he slunk off home, washed the knife and tried to pretend it never happened! Tagging is a real piss off, but it's not something any rational adult should kill someone for!

A 12 year old gets 7 years for participating in someone being hit with a baseball bat, but when an adult stabs and kills a 15 year old they only get 4 years and 3 months!
Something seriously fucked up there!

[Patrick]

Bullshit, he was 200 m down the road from his property, with a weapon in his hand, actively pursuing someone. After he stabbed the guy he slunk off home, washed the knife and tried to pretend it never happened! Tagging is a real piss off, but it's not something any rational adult should kill someone for!

A 12 year old gets 7 years for participating in someone being hit with a baseball bat, but when an adult stabs and kills a 15 year old they only get 4 years and 3 months!
Something seriously fucked up there!

Fair call... but he never intended to harm.

Grabbed a knife for protection? Yep.

"They turned on him" Yep - (how else would a fat 50 year old catch Two fit and healthy teens)

If he had, instead helped the kid, called for help and presented the used knife instead of going home, washing it and hiding(??) it, he would probably have convinced a jury that the kid did walk onto the knife.

A fair result, all in all.

I too wonder what became of the 2nd kid tagger.....

[Finn]

I too wonder what became of the 2nd kid tagger.....

Standby... shouldn't take too long now...

[Patrick]

Standby... shouldn't take too long now...

"Headline news story, coming to you soon?" type of thing, is my guess too....

[rottiguy]

I think it was a mistake for him to take a knife out, I would have taken a bat ( actually have a pick handle that would do nicely ) and just broken a few of the little shits bones.

[Winston001]

I think it was a mistake for him to take a knife out, I would have taken a bat ( actually have a pick handle that would do nicely ) and just broken a few of the little shits bones.

I've thought about this. I wouldn't pick up anything to go out and confront taggers. If I felt intimidated by whoever was outside, I'd ring the police, neighbours perhaps as well, shout at them, try to photograph whatever.

If I wasn't worried I'd go out and try to identify them and explain the problem. But I sure as heck wouldn't take a weapon. Its an invitation for trouble - a challenge.

But then I live in a nice middleclass suburb where tagging just doesn't exist. Zilch. So its damned hard to imagine how I would react if I felt beseiged in my own home. Its a recipe for lots of pentup anger.

[Lias]

I won't ever be in his shoes.

If I discover someone destroying my property or attacking my family for the hundredth time, and they attack me intending to kill me, I won't call the police.

They never came the other 99 times.

I'll take the offender fishing.

After all, they are underpriviledged. The dole didn't give mum enough money, and even with free state housing, free medical, free dental, free Plunket, free Kindy, and free schools, they never had a chance. Dad, if they knew him never took them for a walk down the beach, to the footy, camping, or helped them build a hut.

But me, I'll take them fishing. They make good burley.

Yes I wouldnt _call_ them myself, but you never know how much noise they'll make when you hack bits off them.

I dunno about the fishing, mate of mine has a good supply of 40 gallon drums and concretes cheap.

[Lias]

Its an invitation for trouble - a challenge.


Tagging my property is a challenge, me chasing them with a bloody great machete is my response :devil2:

[MisterD]

Anyone not seen this yet?

The scrote's bebo page (http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3000210618)

The way the liberal lefty media are playing this you'd think he was some angel on his way home from choir practive...

[Dave Lobster]

Anyone not seen this yet?

The scrote's bebo page (http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3000210618)

I can see it. The words make no sense though.



The way the liberal lefty media are playing this you'd think he was some angel on his way home from choir practive...

Another reason to stab him to death. :whistle:

[rottiguy]

Well it would take the cops maybe 15mins or so to get to my place and by that time all sorts of shit can happen, the trouble is of course is if you take something out with you you will use it if you feel you have to, if it was noise and/or crap going down on my property I might even take the pump action shotgun out but if it was out by the front gate it would most likely be a bat of some sort. Trouble is if you hear a whole bunch of noise and call the cops and they get there to find it was a dog or possom they will be non too pleased so you kind of feel compelled to go out to see excactly what is making all the kafuffel. Then if you discover it is some shitbags looking for trouble you may find yourself in the line of fire without anything to back you up and you get the crap beaten out of you ( or worse ).
But it is a tricky situation and everyone will react differently, BUT I would not run down the street after someone with a weapon because you are then not on your own property and can not claim you were in fear of your or your famlies life.





I've thought about this. I wouldn't pick up anything to go out and confront taggers. If I felt intimidated by whoever was outside, I'd ring the police, neighbours perhaps as well, shout at them, try to photograph whatever.

If I wasn't worried I'd go out and try to identify them and explain the problem. But I sure as heck wouldn't take a weapon. Its an invitation for trouble - a challenge.

But then I live in a nice middleclass suburb where tagging just doesn't exist. Zilch. So its damned hard to imagine how I would react if I felt beseiged in my own home. Its a recipe for lots of pentup anger.

[Patrick]

.... Trouble is if you hear a whole bunch of noise and call the cops and they get there to find it was a dog or possom they will be non too pleased ...

No, not at all... would rather go to a false alarm than not at all, only to find out it was actually something bigger than one thought...