Pros and cons of the slipper clutch?

[slofox]

Serious question from me for a change...
Was reading a review of the latest Fireblade in the local rag last night and noted comments about the slipper clutch.
I have not ridden a bike with a slipper clutch so have no first hand experience of such. (I know all about slippING clutches though from the bad old days of Velocette ownership...)
My first reaction would be that I would rather have a standard clutch since I rely quite heavily on engine braking when I ride. I feel I would hate to be reliant on brakes alone - I like the control that engine braking provides. It feels to me that I gain another, maybe, 20% over using brakes alone...
But then, I have not ridden a large displacement IL4 so have no real idea of the amount of back torque such an engine would provide nor how much of it the slipper clutch removes. The SVS does have quite serious engine braking capabilities which I use to the full, although ya do have to watch for rear wheel lockup...
So, those of you who know what they are talking about, what is the real deal on the Slipper Clutch? How serious is the back torque from engines on bikes they are fitted to? How much engine braking does it remove? How different is the experience with and without a slipper clutch? Etc Etc Etc.
All answers read with interest....

[breakaway]

Slipper clutches are adjustable, and are adjusted to stop rear locking, but still allow a good deal of engine braking I believe.

[Big Dave]

Ridden several bikes with them now.
More pertinent to track enthusiasts than road riders.

Haven't had one engage in normal street or sports riding. You probably shouldn't be charging hard enough on the road to need it anyway.

Track and hoofing it down it's one less thing to worry about.

[eelracing]

Mate,unless your a trackday junkie or a racer you don't really need em on the road.

[98tls]

TL has an early version of sorts which they called a back torque limiter,works to a point though its still possible to lock up at times,clever bastards like TLDV8 have fitted late model gixxer slipper clutches to theres which i will be doing,totally disagree with who posted "waste of time " on a road bike as it can be bloody annoying on a big V-twin,though i will add sliding into left hand corners can be fun if your in the mood.

[AlBundy]

Slippers generally perform two functions...

Prevent rear wheel lock up under excessive braking/slamming down the gears/dropping the clutch and in so doing, prevent the ability to over-rev the engine when changing down.

For MOST street riders, it'll hardly ever be used but they are handy at a track.

That said, the KTM has one and I've found it to be extremely handy when trying to back the bike in, lol... It sets the bike off in a gentle wee slide which allows me to keep control, as opposed to a locked-up rear wheel...

[imdying]

I feel I would hate to be reliant on brakes aloneNever ride a two stroke race rep then :lol:

[FROSTY]

Its the old story --theres nothing a slipper clutch does that bloody good clutch control shouldn't be able to achieve.
But SHOULD as opposed to DOES are two different things.
When riding with a bit of er hurry on Ive experienced a bit of the ol compression lock up.
Racing my ZXR400 against Kawa Kid on his Honda 400 I noticed he was able to go screaming up to a corner and just bang down the gears from top to second and trust the slipper to deal with matters--whils he's focussed on braking.

[FROSTY]

The SVS does have quite serious engine braking capabilities which I use to the full, although ya do have to watch for rear wheel lockup...
You answer ya own question there dude. The slipper reduces back wheel lockup.

[kiwifruit]

the engine is for going, not braking :dodge:

[slofox]

Its the old story --theres nothing a slipper clutch does that bloody good clutch control shouldn't be able to achieve.



You answer ya own question there dude. The slipper reduces back wheel lockup.

As you say, it is easy enough to lock the back wheel but I have only ever done it when I have seriously overcooked the entry to a corner and have had to throw out the picks...I haven't done it under emergency braking for a hazard like a loony cager...yet anyway...

[pritch]

I haven't got one but I'd like one. The only "disadvantage" I ever heard of related to someone who had got used to a slipper clutch then riding another bike that didn't have one...

[slopster]

Best thing since sliced bread. You still need to rev the bike between gears when you're hard on the front brake and downshifting but when you fuck up your downshift the slipper clutch saves you skittering off sideways into the corner. Also makes no difference at all to engine braking or cruisy riding - it takes a serious amount of back torque make it slip.

[R6_kid]

Helps n00bs ride overpowered bikes on the road. Also good for races as it allows them to downshift quicker without the hassles of feathering the clutch to stop the rear tyre skipping.

[The Stranger]

though i will add sliding into left hand corners can be fun if your in the mood.

How dare you!
That is a mortal sin - you will rot in hell for saying such a thing.
That will get a noob killed saying something like that.

I shall report this post immediately.

[White trash]

Its the old story --theres nothing a slipper clutch does that bloody good clutch control shouldn't be able to achieve.



Bullshit mate.

I can run the Thou' to redline in first then slam the throttle shut the instant it hits 168kph on the speedo. No wheel hop, nothing.

I don't care how good your clutch control is, the onle way to get a similar effect is to pull in the clutch lever, and let's face it, that's a hell of alot of work.

With the Yoshimura clutch, we further reduced the amount of back torque required to slip it by a third, THAT was fricken awesome. Felt like a two stroke as far as engine braking was concerned.

Imagine doing 310 kays down the back straight of Puke, drop of the crest, hit the front picks and start back pedaling gears as fast as you can. No rev spike required, just smash it through sixth to first in the space of 150 meters.

Downside? Don't think so.

[jrandom]

Helps n00bs ride overpowered bikes on the road.

As opposed to totally awesome masters of the machine like yourself eh bro?

:lol:

[jrandom]

Downside? Don't think so.

Fuckin oath. I haven't ridden a bike with a slipper clutch on the track, just the road, but downshifting properly is hard work and I can certainly see the attraction.

I betcha pretty much anyone would pick up a second or two around most tracks straight away from a slipper clutch alone. I'm sure I would. It'd free up so much mental effort into corners that could be repurposed toward actually going faster.

If I had the option of getting a bike with a slipper clutch as opposed to one without, it'd be a big selling point for me. Road or track, doesn't matter, it's a gizmo that makes the bike easier to ride, and I'm not a masochist.

[Gremlin]

They can certainly make slowing down for a corner easier (provided you're going in with enough pace to make it come into action), help bike control etc. Makes it stupidly easy to back the bike into corners as well <_< (I'm jealous, as I have a normal clutch).

On the other hand, you lose the skill of feathering the clutch, which can be rather entertaining, and probably adds to your riding skills.

[jrandom]

On the other hand, you lose the skill of feathering the clutch...

Indeed. Quite a delicate operation it is.

I credit my many years of left-handed masturbation for my ability to punt the 1400 into the back sweeper at Taupo without fishtailing and falling off.

[FROSTY]

Bullshit mate.

I can run the Thou' to redline in first then slam the throttle shut the instant it hits 168kph on the speedo. No wheel hop, nothing.

I don't care how good your clutch control is, the onle way to get a similar effect is to pull in the clutch lever, and let's face it, that's a hell of alot of work.
Downside? Don't think so.
Mate --He's on a SV650 with 75 screaming ponies. :Oops:
I used to slam the SV down through the gears then feather the clutch to stop rear wheel hop.

[Mikkel]

Considering it is fairly easy to get a zxr250 to lockup if you forget to blip during downshifts I'd say it's a very worthwhile technology.

Coming into the same hairpin corner braking hard and downshifting I can just drop to 1st gear and drop the clutch on the zx7rr (slipperclutch) while it remains nice and smooth whereas I would have to be somewhat touchy-feely with the older zxr250 to avoid skipping...

As for blipping the throttle on downshift - that becomes very hardwork when you're trying to keep good feel of the brakes while supporting a considerable fraction of your body weight with your arms.

As for practicing feathering the clutch - just get something with a close-ratio gearbox and go for a well behaved blat through town. :(

[White trash]

Mate --He's on a SV650 with 75 screaming ponies. :Oops:
I used to slam the SV down through the gears then feather the clutch to stop rear wheel hop.
Yeah, I used to have to feather the clutch on my K3 to prevent from crashing every turn at Manfeild a few years back while dicing with one Mr Williams.

Having ridden a bike very quickly without one, and also with a slipper fitted, I'll take the technology every day of the week.

[bully]

you hardley notice it. i dont bother blipping and down shift when ever, why, coz iv tryied and it wont lock up. i believe you can use the rear break more too, well with out fear, why, coz it wont lock up. i know the front is the best break but can now use the back hard with no fear, therefore get the most out of it. it is a wierd feeling when it does work, but all good. i dont see any down side.

[HDTboy]

As for blipping the throttle on downshift - that becomes very hardwork when you're trying to keep good feel of the brakes while supporting a considerable fraction of your body weight with your arms.

As for practicing feathering the clutch - just get something with a close-ratio gearbox and go for a well behaved blat through town. :(

Use your legs and abs to hold your weight while braking, it makes controlling the bike much easier (blipping, braking, turning, and clutch feathering all at once).

That said, I'm a fan of the concept of a slipper clutch. Much less concentration on clutch control when entering corners has to be a good thing, poor clutch control caused me to have a massive highside in turn 1 at taupo writing my K2 600 off, I reckon a slipper may have saved me.

[slofox]

Mate --He's on a SV650 with 75 screaming ponies. :Oops:
I used to slam the SV down through the gears then feather the clutch to stop rear wheel hop.

If ya get the revs right(ish) it doesn't hop much anyway...

[Mikkel]

Use your legs and abs to hold your weight while braking, it makes controlling the bike much easier (blipping, braking, turning, and clutch feathering all at once).

I do use those as well (ever the pedant: more the erector spinæ than the abs during braking though) when braking in a straight line - still, on the zx7rr at least, it rather quickly gets very hard on your forearms. Especially so as you are shifting your weight off the bike while still braking, I can't see how you would still be able to use your legs to provide longitudinal support in that situation.

But all of that could also have something to do with my level of fitness I suppose. Suffice to say that removing two layers of complexity from the equation in one of the most critical situations in motorcycle racing is a worthwhile gain.

[piston broke]

wow,
these slipper clutches sound like the shitz,
although,road riding i've only ever had the back lock up a very few times

[Big Dave]

There are other technologies emerging too.

The power shifter on the Spyder 'Auto' matches the engine speed to the gear and velocity before downshifting.

[jrandom]

I can't see how you would still be able to use your legs to provide longitudinal support in that situation.

Try gripping the tank with your knees.

[MsKABC]

Try gripping the tank with your knees.

:yes: A bit like riding a horse really. :)

[Sully60]

Try gripping the tank with your knees.
^^^:yes:
Which you can do quite easily whilst still having the right amount of cheek of the side of the bike. Keeping the arms loose is critical to aid feel of the front which becomes important when you've developed the skill of trail braking.

Yeah I'm a fan of the slipper clutch. I test rode a Firestorm after jumping off Teelzebub at the top of the Rimutakas and boy I got the idea pretty darn quick!:shit: Sometimes you don't realise the benefits of something untill you don't have it.

I'd just gotten the hang of exploiting the charateristics of the automatically limited backtorque when the gearbox blew up:Oops: Nothing to do with the clutch BTW.

Technically a well set up one will stop you from over revving and possibly breaking your engine on the downshift.

[Trudes]

:yes: A bit like riding a horse really. :)

Only a bucking one doll, grip with your calves, soft knees (well, that's what I always had yelled at me)
Anyway, to try and stay on topic, I like the slipper clutch on the Gixxer, makes it real easy to change down quickly coming into a corner and not have any fear of 'dumping' the clutch.

[MsKABC]

Only a bucking one doll, grip with your calves, soft knees (well, that's what I always had yelled at me)
Anyway, to try and stay on topic, I like the slipper clutch on the Gixxer, makes it real easy to change down quickly coming into a corner and not have any fear of 'dumping' the clutch.

yeah, that's why I said "a bit like" ;) Ever tried staying on a pony (as opposed to a horse) when it's trying to eject you? Bugger me, that's hard work, slippery little buggers!

And back on topic - I have no experience of a slipper clutch, but this thread did spur an interesting discussion here at home re blipping the throttle. I reckon I do it - something I taught myself when the old gpz's back wheel used to lock up when down-shifting. Hubby reckons I don't, but agrees he couldn't really know for sure.

Thanks for the bling Sully, and yes, horses do have fuel tanks. just gotta watch out for the exhaust! :laugh:

[Trudes]

yeah, that's why I said "a bit like" ;) Ever tried staying on a pony (as opposed to a horse) when it's trying to eject you? Bugger me, that's hard work, slippery little buggers!

And back on topic - I have no experience of a slipper clutch, but this thread did spur an interesting discussion here at home re blipping the throttle. I reckon I do it - something I taught myself when the old gpz's back wheel used to lock up when down-shifting. Hubby reckons I don't, but agrees he couldn't really know for sure.

Thanks for the bling Sully, and yes, horses do have fuel tanks. just gotta watch out for the exhaust! :laugh:

I was the 'test ride dummy' at a RDA I used to volunteer at, I was the only one small enough to test out the new ponies that came in.... some of those bastards would buck from one end of the arena to the other, turn around and buck all the way back again, 1 and a half laps was my record :laugh:
On-topic, throttle blipping is so fun eh! Kendog doesn't do it and every time I ride his bike I do it and he reckons it sounds awesome (So I'm trying to encourage him to do it, it's so easy on the Gixxer);)

[Sully60]

:yes: A bit like riding a horse really. :)



Only a bucking one doll, grip with your calves, soft knees (well, that's what I always had yelled at me)



yeah, that's why I said "a bit like" ;) Ever tried staying on a pony (as opposed to a horse) when it's trying to eject you? Bugger me, that's hard work, slippery little buggers!




I was the 'test ride dummy' at a RDA I used to volunteer at, I was the only one small enough to test out the new ponies that came in.... some of those bastards would buck from one end of the arena to the other, turn around and buck all the way back again, 1 and a half laps was my record :laugh:


^^^^^
How girls turn Tech threads into horse discussions 101:rolleyes:

[jrandom]

On-topic, throttle blipping is so fun eh!

I can only manage fair dinkum blips during warm-up and warm-down laps.

:(

During my feeble attempts at race pace, feathering the clutch is as much as I'm capable of, I'm afraid.

Although I found that the Dunlop corner at Manfeild seems pretty forgiving regarding leisure time for blipping and suchlike as you head in. Then again, that sort of laziness is probably why I didn't go any faster than 1:21 on a K4 GSXR600.

Waaa, I want a slipper clutch.

[MsKABC]

^^^^^
How girls turn Tech threads into horse discussions 101:rolleyes:

Are you feeling humbled in our presence then? :lol: We did both manage to stay on topic for half of our posts, although I'm feeling really out of my depth in such a technical thread, so I shall just bow out now... :bye:

[Trudes]

^^^^^
How girls turn Tech threads into horse discussions 101:rolleyes:
You LOVE it!!;) You were hoping we'd start talking about whips and chaps eh?

I can only manage fair dinkum blips during warm-up and warm-down laps.

:(

During my feeble attempts at race pace, feathering the clutch is as much as I'm capable of, I'm afraid.

Although I found that the Dunlop corner at Manfeild seems pretty forgiving regarding leisure time for blipping and suchlike as you head in. Then again, that sort of laziness is probably why I didn't go any faster than 1:21 on a K4 GSXR600.

Waaa, I want a slipper clutch.
I haven't mastered the art of blipping under heavy braking.. yet, and only remember to do it when I remember to do it, but it does come a lot more naturally on the Gixxer than on the Hornet.

Are you feeling humbled in our presence then? :lol: We did both manage to stay on topic for half of our posts, although I'm feeling really out of my depth in such a technical thread, so I shall just bow out now... :bye:

Yep, with ya there hun!! :chase:

[Sully60]

I can only manage fair dinkum blips during warm-up and warm-down laps.

:(

During my feeble attempts at race pace, feathering the clutch is as much as I'm capable of, I'm afraid.



Waaa, I want a slipper clutch.

And it's very hard to do when you change three or four gears at at time in the manner Trashy mentioned in his posts. You only really need to match the revs as the clutch comes out after the last shift but as said earlier the slipper clutch takes all the hassle out of it and allows you to concentrate on other, slightly more pressing issues.

[Sully60]

Are you feeling humbled in our presence then? :lol: We did both manage to stay on topic for half of our posts, although I'm feeling really out of my depth in such a technical thread, so I shall just bow out now... :bye:

Please don't go away, I's just a cheeky bugger you'll find that out more as you go along, You made very good points from your perspective, I just couldn't help myself. So have you got chaps?:innocent:

You LOVE it!!;) You were hoping we'd start talking about whips and chaps eh?



I love you!:hug::spanking::spanking::devil2::)

[MsKABC]

Please don't go away, I's just a cheeky bugger you'll find that out more as you go along, You made very good points from your perspective, I just couldn't help myself. So have you got chaps?:innocent:


'salright, I wasn't leaving coz you gave me stick. I genuinely am feeling like I have nothing to offer the thread :laugh:

I don't have chaps, but I used to have jodpurs. In fact, one of my most embarrassing stories involves the wearing of said jodpurs, but we won't go there today.... :shutup:

[Trudes]

I love you!:hug::spanking::spanking::devil2::)

:o (so you want me to find the chaps and whip for next Wednesday?):laugh:

[Trudes]

I don't have chaps, but I used to have jodpurs. In fact, one of my most embarrassing stories involves the wearing of said jodpurs, but we won't go there today.... :shutup:

Go on, pleeeeeaseeee!!!! Were they white? (Where's scracha, he has some new breeches)

[Sully60]

I don't have chaps, but I used to have jodpurs. In fact, one of my most embarrassing stories involves the wearing of said jodpurs, but we won't go there today.... :shutup:

George Smilovici: (http://www.youtube.com/user/georgesmilovici)

The worlds fucked!

You know when you go out with one of those horse riding chicks that wears the pants that go like that.
(imagine the hand movements going on hear, bear with me)

Then you get her home and take off her pants and her legs still go like that!

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh h h h h h the worlds fucked!

[MsKABC]

Go on, pleeeeeaseeee!!!! Were they white? (Where's scracha, he has some new breeches)

Maybe I'll start another thread..... :whistle:


You know when you go out with one of those horse riding chicks that wears the pants that go like that.
(imagine the hand movements going on hear, bear with me)

Then you get her home and take off her pants and her legs still go like that!



Mine weren't the ones that were baggy around the bum/thighs, they were tight all the way to the top. That was in my body-building/pre-children days however :(

[Mikkel]

Try gripping the tank with your knees.


Which you can do quite easily whilst still having the right amount of cheek of the side of the bike. Keeping the arms loose is critical to aid feel of the front which becomes important when you've developed the skill of trail braking.

While I agree that gripping the tank helps with balance and support both laterally and longitudinally - I can not see how you would be able to do so as you move to really get your weight off the bike coming into a corner (I may have fairly wide thighs but I can't touch the tank and road surface at the same time without getting the elusive and unwanted handlebar down effect as well). But hell, I don't know - I might just be setting up for the corner a bit too early in anticipation of the feel of nylon on tarmac. (Not to say I've had my knee to the deck with the zx7 yet, but I may indeed setup for the corner a bit early - it was certainly hard on my arms downshifting under braking anyway.)

Irregardless, the slipper clutch most certainly turned what was often a bumpy, jerky braking procedure on the 250 into a smooth and pleasant affair on the 750.

[slofox]

I can only manage fair dinkum blips during warm-up and warm-down laps.

:(

During my feeble attempts at race pace, feathering the clutch is as much as I'm capable of, I'm afraid.




I haven't mastered the art of blipping under heavy braking.. yet, and only remember to do it when I remember to do it, but it does come a lot more naturally on the Gixxer than on the Hornet.


Well. I can't imagine changing down without the blip...I think the only time I changed down without blipping the throttle was the first time I ever rode a bike - my mate's Chunderbir...er I mean THunderbird....ever since then I have done it without thinking. As I said earlier, I rely on engine braking quite heavily when I have to throw out the picks in a hurry.....

[jrandom]

Well. I can't imagine changing down without the blip...I think the only time I changed down without blipping the throttle was the first time I ever rode a bike - my mate's Chunderbir...er I mean THunderbird....ever since then I have done it without thinking. As I said earlier, I rely on engine braking quite heavily...

Mmyes.

Sounds to me like you'd find, if you took your SV to a trackday, that you're not braking anywhere near as hard as it's capable of.

:sunny:

[HDTboy]

I can only manage fair dinkum blips during warm-up and warm-down laps.

:(

During my feeble attempts at race pace, feathering the clutch is as much as I'm capable of, I'm afraid.

Adjust your throttle cables. It makes blipping easier, subconcious almost.

[dipshit]

Sounds to me like you'd find, if you took your SV to a trackday, that you're not braking anywhere near as hard as it's capable of.

It is possible to brake very hard and change down blipping in very quick secession as you go. Blip blip blip as you go and it's done!

[rocketman1]

Slofox,
The SV1000 has a back torque limiting clutch, I'm not sure about the 650, but essentially I believe its the same thing as the slipper clutch, it is to stop the back wheel locking up on down changes.
I have only locked the rear wheel once on the SV and that was at Taupo race track, and that was at the end of the front straight, I was too late braking into the corner and had to hall on all anchors and try and change down from 4th to 2nd in ( too shorter distance, for me anyway) the rear wheel was seriously unweighted, and started making all sorts of slipping skidding sounds, great fun!. I have changed down very fast ( during my stopping exercises) and on the road have never had the back wheel skid. So it must work to a reasonable extent. My Bandit used to skid the rear wheel easily when changing down and stopping very fast, but this little beast doesn't seem to have that disease.

[slofox]

Mmyes.

Sounds to me like you'd find, if you took your SV to a trackday, that you're not braking anywhere near as hard as it's capable of.

:sunny:

And you would be dead right Mr. Random. I already found that out when I did the advanced rider course here the other week.....after a bit of encouragement on the emergency braking section I stopped from 100k in just a little more than the same space as the original stop from 70k...

[slofox]

It is possible to brake very hard and change down blipping in very quick secession as you go. Blip blip blip as you go and it's done!

Yep - that is exactly what I do....


Slofox,
The SV1000 has a back torque limiting clutch, I'm not sure about the 650, but essentially I believe its the same thing as the slipper clutch, it is to stop the back wheel locking up on down changes.
I have only locked the rear wheel once on the SV and that was at Taupo race track, and that was at the end of the front straight, I was too late braking into the corner and had to hall on all anchors and try and change down from 4th to 2nd in ( too shorter distance, for me anyway) the rear wheel was seriously unweighted, and started making all sorts of slipping skidding sounds, great fun!. I have changed down very fast ( during my stopping exercises) and on the road have never had the back wheel skid. So it must work to a reasonable extent. My Bandit used to skid the rear wheel easily when changing down and stopping very fast, but this little beast doesn't seem to have that disease.

It IS the same thing according to what I have read...The 650 doesn't have one. You have to use change downs with a little discretion. Having said that, I have rarely locked up the back wheel in real life situations....

[HDTboy]

Back torque limiting clutches are similar to slipper clutches, but not the same thing.
The VFR750/400 type BTL works on a sprag type arrangement between the clutch basket and the input shaft to give the input shaft drive in one direction with reduced drive in the opposite direction, and is set at the factory.
Most modern slipper clutches use a ramp system to release the clutch plates the desired amount which can be tuned by using differring thicknesses of clutch 'steels', different strengths of clutch springs, and different amounts of preload on the springs.
A more sophisticated way of attacking the same problem.

[scracha]

Go on, pleeeeeaseeee!!!! Were they white? (Where's scracha, he has some new breeches)

You'd pay to see me in them.

Horses, no slipper clutch for them but braking technique is similar to the bike. The best slowing technique is a succession of gentle pulls. Applying the brakes too hard on a horse can have it locking up and you quickly get highsided by the bugger. Sometimes steering around the object you're going to hit is the best option.

Bikes, slipper clutch...probably overkill for the road. On big twins it stops nasty gobs of torque going back through the gearbox and doing damage. Bloody useful on an italian twin when it decides to fire on one cylinder mid-corner. Still locks up in the wet unless you muck around with them. Wonderful things when racing on a dry track though...bang it down too many gears...no drama. I still prefer the control from the clutch though. I'd use the rear brake to slow down if I could reach it.

Can't believe frosty uses one in F3, what a ham fisted cheating barsteward :innocent: Bastadly expensive to replace though......... (sigh).

[TLDV8]

Slofox,
The SV1000 has a back torque limiting clutch...

Same as the TL1000's and Hayabusa,they have little in common with a slipper clutch to the point the mechanics of them are retarded.
They simply use a cam in the spring tower base to back the clutch spring height off (preload) which induces a claytons type slippage,it has no way to determine what the rear wheel is actually doing on deceleration.
The reason the TL1000 does the big revolution surge when power is applied in the upper gears, the cam in the clutch hub is trying to increase the spring pressure.

<img src=http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/manurewa/Clutch/s1.jpg>

The later GSXR's slipper unit uses a cam under the hub which then uses three adjustable pins to lift the pressure plate.
Actual slippage and engage point can be changed via the diaphragm springs under the hub using Yoshimura replacements or a combination of them and the adjuster pin height.

As Mike (98TLS) said i elected to fit the GSXR unit to a TL1000 drive gear.

There are a few GSXR pics here showing how they work..fwiw.
Aftermarket versions are similar but normally use a ball and ramp system for lift which is more precise.

http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/manurewa/Clutch/?start=all



.
.

[slofox]

Back torque limiting clutches are similar to slipper clutches, but not the same thing.
The VFR750/400 type BTL works on a sprag type arrangement between the clutch basket and the input shaft to give the input shaft drive in one direction with reduced drive in the opposite direction, and is set at the factory.
Most modern slipper clutches use a ramp system to release the clutch plates the desired amount which can be tuned by using differring thicknesses of clutch 'steels', different strengths of clutch springs, and different amounts of preload on the springs.
A more sophisticated way of attacking the same problem.


Same as the TL1000's and Hayabusa,they have little in common with a slipper clutch to the point the mechanics of them are retarded.
They simply use a cam in the spring tower base to back the clutch spring height off (preload) which induces a claytons type slippage,it has no way to determine what the rear wheel is actually doing on deceleration.
The reason the TL1000 does the big revolution surge when power is applied in the upper gears, the cam in the clutch hub is trying to increase the spring pressure.

<img src=http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/manurewa/Clutch/s1.jpg>

The later GSXR's slipper unit uses a cam under the hub which then uses three adjustable pins to lift the pressure plate.
Actual slippage and engage point can be changed via the diaphragm springs under the hub using Yoshimura replacements or a combination of them and the adjuster pin height.

As Mike (98TLS) said i elected to fit the GSXR unit to a TL1000 drive gear.

There are a few GSXR pics here showing how they work..fwiw.
Aftermarket versions are similar but normally use a ball and ramp system for lift which is more precise.

.
.

Thanks for the info guys - I am much enlightened.....:2thumbsup

[glice]

I havnt ridden a bike with one, but it sounds good.

What happens if or when a slipper clutch fails? Can it?

[slofox]

Isn't a "slipper clutch" when you grab your slipper to stop the cat pissing in it...?

[fatzx10r]

What happens if or when a slipper clutch fails? Can it?

$$$$$$$$$$

[glice]

$$$$$$$$$$


yea, I was thinking money and pain.

[glice]

Isn't a "slipper clutch" when you grab your slipper to stop the cat pissing in it...?


Na, thats a slipper save, or swipe

[slofox]

Na, thats a slipper save, or swipe

Ahhh 0- thanks...

[scracha]

$$$$$$$$$$

About 2 grand

[GaZBur]

I am asuming that many motard riders use a slipper clutch to back in. I find that if you brake into a corner and change down to a gear too low for your speed, letting the clutch out quick but smooth the back will step out easily by itself. I imagine a slipper clutch would allow you to just kick it down. I find it difficult to handle front and rear brakes as well as smooth clutch downchanging simultaneously while contending with other riders around at the same time. One less thing to contend with when you are in a hectic situation. I doubt that I am quick enough to see much difference though it must make a difference to the top guys not having one.
Correct me if I am wrong - never ridden a bike with one.

[scracha]

Isn't a "slipper clutch" when you grab your slipper to stop the cat pissing in it...?

Sortof. They're popular with older bikers. Not just because they can afford them, but they go hand in hand with the aftermarket exhausts. That way old bikers can have pipes and slippers




I'll get my coat

[slofox]

Sortof. They're popular with older bikers. Not just because they can afford them, but they go hand in hand with the aftermarket exhausts. That way old bikers can have pipes and slippers




I'll get my coat

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Sharp bro, sharp. Don't go pattin' yourself on the head - you'll cut ya hand off....

[limbimtimwim]

As I said earlier, I rely on engine braking quite heavily when I have to throw out the picks in a hurry.....The reduction in engine braking isn't much.

All it does is keep the engine braking less than the amount of required to lock up the rear tyre.. So all it is doing is a good job of letting out the clutch lever as you shift down.

Going crazy shifting down on my old gsxr750k6 you could get a bit of a wiggle on, but it was always gentle. Apparently this clutch is adjustable in 3 steps and comes out of the factory in the middle setting. EDIT: So I suppose if you adjusted it one way you could have less engine braking. But it came out of the factory at a nice a mid point.

On my 749S (No slipper clutch) I can stomp on the gear lever and it nearly locks up and wiggles, but I think Ducati kind of countered it by building a bike with (What feels like anyway) a long wheelbase.

[Sully60]

On my 749S (No slipper clutch) I can stomp on the gear lever and it nearly locks up and wiggles, but I think Ducati kind of countered it by building a bike with (What feels like anyway) a long wheelbase.

I'm not aware of what's going on with the Duc but there are many other ways of limiting back torque. 4-stroke Motogp technology has a lot to do here. When the class went all diesel on it back in the day the 2-stroke guys struggled.
Watch on bike footage from the two smokers they just slam down three grears, let the engine over rev and just go for it, try that on an M1 or RC211V of the time and they would've ended up on there ear, and then get their heads smashed in by the mechanics.
I've read some of Yamaha's literature around the development of the MotoGP bikes and the telemetry they'd gathered highlighted the fact the the bikes where spending between 60-80% (depending on the track) of the total lap time on the brakes and so put a lot of there development into this area.

Along with slipper clutches there were fuelling and ignition options available to make the 2-stroke guys feel a bit more at home. The 07? CBR600RR employs fuelling tricks to limit back torque, keeping the engine running just enough above tickover but not so fast it felt like it runs on into the corners.
I wouldn't put it past Ducati to have something similar going on.

[limbimtimwim]

I don't think Ducati are doing anything tricky. Just the bike is long, heavy and feels like it has a larger rearward weight bias than say my 400.... Which funnily enough has a slipper clutch. So not much hopping around at the back, just slow worm like weaves.

Aprilia do so some shit on the RSV that slips the clutch a little when intake vacuum is very high. Or something.

[Ocean1]

Aprilia do so some shit on the RSV that slips the clutch a little when intake vacuum is very high. Or something.

Buell's new offerings are vacuum actuated, or partially so. Why wouldn't they add a pair of transducers, you'd have engine-brake ABS...

[scracha]

than say my 400.... Which funnily enough has a slipper clutch.

A slipper clutch on your 400...you ham fisted buftie.

[discotex]

Along with slipper clutches there were fuelling and ignition options available to make the 2-stroke guys feel a bit more at home. The 07? CBR600RR employs fuelling tricks to limit back torque, keeping the engine running just enough above tickover but not so fast it felt like it runs on into the corners.
I wouldn't put it past Ducati to have something similar going on.

The 600rr system is valve based rather than fuel. I believe it opens a valve when you close the throttle so the engine can spin more freely.

It's very good on the road but it's no substitute for a proper slipper. Not having it stock does save a lot of weight though and you can always add one if you plan to race your bike.

If I don't blip under hard braking on the track the rear still locks up but given so many people never take their bikes to the track it's a fair compromise. I'd much prefer to be able to bang down the gears like the on-board laps on the GP bikes. 6-5-4-3-2-1-clutchout in as long as it take to read.

I've seen rumors the '10 update model will add a slipper before the total redesign in '11.

[ALTRON]

NC30's got one (sort of)

I love smashing down the gears without a care :)
Dunno how I'd get by without it .

[Squid69]

Mate,unless your a trackday junkie or a racer you don't really need em on the road.

Does it make THAT much of a difference to those who do?
I once got told not to buy a x race bike because it was slow and it did not have a slipper clutch.
Ive never had problems braking, exept braking too much.

edit: my honda 399 does not have a slipper.

[scracha]

Does it make THAT much of a difference to those who do?

Umm...if you miscount the downshifts and make a ham fisted ballsup of letting the clutch out too early then it'll make a difference. Put it this way, I reckon one of my trips to the kitty litter was a result of this. I guess when the top guys are racing 50 grand bikes then anything that increases the chance of staying rubber side down is a good idea.

[Karl@Alpha]

Well we'll be putting one on wifey's Ducati when it (clutch) and a new basket arrives.
She wants one as a little peace of mind, big twins lock up!
Will get one for my own toy when ether I can get one cheep or it wears out, the R6 has one that I've only had "go active" once but the Corsaro will let it come in while still giving lots of engine braking and you can feel it doing that quite often on a fun bit of road...
I think it comes down to what you ride and how you use it.
If its a large capacity twin you will need it more than on a 600 4 cylinder bike...
Good thing with the Ducati is its dry in there, so fine tuning isn't going to cost 3lts of oil every time.
I'm keen to try it out though, see what it'll be like in the wet? same? more control?
Or will my extra weight force it to work where it wouldn't for her?
Will changing the tires to a sticker compound involve adjusting more back torque into it?
Will the chain last longer?
Will have to do a long term report...

[johan]

I've got a Surflex Race Slipper. I gives me good launches and save my ass when I mess up downshifts under heavy breaking. :eek5:

[Karl@Alpha]

Sweet! Glad to hear caus we have the same one...
May try it with the old baskit as its about a grand we dont want to spend!