Moto2 replacing the 250 class in 2011...

[samgab]

What is your opinion on the new Moto2 class which will replace the 250cc class in the MotoGP as of 2011?

The full official regulations for the new class are here:
http://www.fim.ch/sec/documents/f_6127.pdf

Basically:
Technical Regulations:

1. Engine

1.1 4-stroke engines only.
1.2 Engine capacity: maximum 600cc.
1.3 4 cylinders maximum.
1.4 No oval pistons.
1.5 Engines must be normally aspirated. No turbo-charging, no super-charging.
1.6 Engine speed limited to maximum: 16,000 rpm. 4-cylinder engines
15,500 rpm. 3-cylinder engines
15,000 rpm. 2-cylinder engines
An electronic system supplied by the Organisers will be permanently attached to monitor and control
engine speed.
1.7 Pneumatic valve operation is not permitted.
1.8 Inlet and Exhaust valves must be of conventional type (reciprocating poppet valves).
1.9 Variable valve timing or variable valve lift systems are not permitted.
1.10 Only wet-sump type engine lubrication systems are permitted.
1.11 Minimum weight of complete engine with throttle body, dry:
53 kg 4-cylinder
50 kg 3-cylinder
47 kg 2 cylinder

2. Inlet & Fuel System

2.1 Variable-length inlet tract systems are not permitted.
2.2 Only one throttle control valve per cylinder is permitted. No other moving devices are permitted in the
inlet tract before the engine intake valve.
2.3 Throttle bodies will have a maximum internal diameter (must be perfectly circle except for the area of
dent or groove to allow the injector to come out) at engine side out-let of:
42 mm for 4-cylinder
48 mm for 3-cylinder
59 mm for 2-cylinder
2.4 Fuel injectors will be restricted to a defined type (tba, based on cost).
2.5 Fuel pressure must not exceed 5.0 bar.
2.6 No artificial cooling of intake air or fuel.
2.7 Only air or air/fuel mixture is permitted in the induction tract and combustion chamber.
2.8 No direct fuel injection into the cylinder/head/combustion chamber.
2.9 Fuel specification will be for standard unleaded fuel (commercially available EU-compliant “pump fuel”).

3. Exhaust system

3.1 Variable length exhaust systems are not permitted.
3.2 Noise limit will be a maximum of 120 dB/A, measured in a static test.


4. Transmission

4.1 A maximum of 6 gearbox speeds is permitted.
4.2 A maximum of 3 alternate gear ratios for each gearbox speed, and 2 alternate ratios for the primary
drive gear is permitted. Teams will be required to declare the gearbox ratios for each gear used at the
beginning of the season.
4.3 Electro-mechanical or electro-hydraulic clutch actuating systems are not permitted.

5. Ignition, Electronics & Data-Logging

5.1 Data logger system will be supplied by the series Organizer.
5.2 Only the ECU/fuel injection control units supplied by the series Organiser are allowed to be fitted
to the motorcycle. Electronic control units include the timing transponder, engine RPM control,
and datalogger systems. No other electronic control or datalogging systems will be allowed on the
motorcycle. The price of ECU unit made by each engine manufacturer must be equal to or less than
JPY75,000 (about Euro650).

6. Chassis

6.1 Chassis will be a prototype, the design and construction of which is free within the constraints of the
FIM Grand Prix Technical Regulations. The frame, swing-arm, fuel tank, seat and cowling are
forbidden to use from a non-prototype as series production road-going motorcycle.
6.2 Minimum Total Weight: 135kg for 4-cylinder
130kg for 3-cylinder
125kg for 2-cylinder
6.3 No carbon brake discs.

7. Wheels & Tyres

7.1 No carbon composite wheels.
7.2 The maximum permitted wheel rim width is: Front 4.00”
Rear 6.00” or 6.25”
7.3 The only permitted wheel rim diameter is: Front 17”
Rear 17”
7.4 The number of slick tyres allocated to each rider per event will be controlled.

8. Materials & Construction

8.1 Construction materials will be limited to exclude expensive “non-conventional” materials and
manufacturing methods (a list will be issued).
8.2 The following components must be made from iron-based alloys:
Valve springs, camshafts, crankshafts, connecting rods, piston pins, brake discs.
8.3 Engine crankcases and cylinder heads must be made from cast aluminium alloys.
8.4 Pistons must be made from an aluminium alloy.

9. General

9.1 Number of machines: the team can scrutineer only one motorcycle per rider.
9.2 Number of engines: a maximum of 2 complete engines per rider is permitted at any event. Teams will
be required to register engine serial numbers at Technical Control on the day before the first practice.
9.3 Apart from the above regulations, all other construction criteria, dimensions and specifications are as
per the FIM Grand Prix Regulations.
9.4 The engine (excluding exhaust, throttle bodies and ECU) used in a race is available to be purchased
by another competitor in the same race for a fixed price of €20,000 (Euro). Such purchase request
must be made in writing to Race Direction within the protest period, that is within 60 minutes after the
official end of the race. The transaction and delivery will be completed immediately at the end of the
60 minute protest period and will be underwritten by IRTA. Teams refusing to sell when presented
with a valid request will be disqualified.

[samgab]

Sounds to me like there will suddenly be an official class that bikes like the CBR600RR, GSX-R600, YZF-R6, and ZX-6R will fit right into.
But it will miss out bikes like the Duke and the Triumph.

I wonder if any new bike engines will flow through from this race scene, or not. Like a new Honda V4 600 would be cool...

[Ivan]

rules are crap.

Its the Moto GP for fuck sake the elite series why run it as a club series?

250 GP owns.

Why allow an engine to be sold if you cant keep up thats your problem tuff shit solve it or go home.

I think the series is going to fall over to be honest riders are not going to want to ride in a series like this World Superbikes gonna become huge in 2012

[wbks]

Not an expert in MotoGP but why the fuck make bikes of smaller capacity rev lower than MotoGP class bikes? And make Pneumatic illegal, limit carb size and limit all other kinds of crap? I thought MotoGP is supposed to be the pinnacle of road racing motorcycle design?

[samgab]

Not an expert in MotoGP but why the fuck make bikes of smaller capacity rev lower than MotoGP class bikes? And make Pneumatic illegal, limit carb size and limit all other kinds of crap? I thought MotoGP is supposed to be the pinnacle of road racing motorcycle design?

Well, there will still be the proper MotoGP, with the 800cc bikes, but this is to replace the 250cc class. So, if I understand correctly, there will be 125 2-strokes, 600 4-strokes, and the MotoGP class, the true kings.

I guess they need a lot of rules in place to prevent the 600's from being as fast and as good as the 800cc MotoGP class.

[wbks]

Well, there will still be the proper MotoGP, with the 800cc bikes, but this is to replace the 250cc class. So, if I understand correctly, there will be 125 2-strokes, 600 4-strokes, and the MotoGP class, the true kings.Yes, but generally speaking (commercial interests aside), aren't each of those classes supposed to be pushing the boundaries for that capacity? 55ps from a 125 is impressive... 220+ from an 800 is impressive, but I'm not expecting those 600's to be anything special<_<
I see you've edited that (or i didn't see it before) but I guess that could be it... 200cc could make a huge difference at that level anyway but they'd still be a lot faster than the current 250's, so...

[samgab]

Why allow an engine to be sold if you cant keep up thats your problem

I think they have the bit about having to sell the engine after the race if a request is made by another team, so that the other team can then pull it apart and make sure that the team they bought the engine from wasn't cheating in any way.

[lostinflyz]

I think they have the bit about having to sell the engine after the race if a request is made by another team, so that the other team can then pull it apart and make sure that the team they bought the engine from wasn't cheating in any way.

its a claiming rule so that teams dont go off and spend a couple of million making a 180+ odd 600 engine. basically it means you will run a stock engine because if you uprate your engine at all everyone else will end up with one.

they replaced the class to lower costs. at the moment a 250 fatory bike is like 5 or 6 million to LEASE for a year. they are aiming for these bikes to be only a few hundred grand i think.

the only good thing i can see to it is alot of different people making bikes (all with very similar if not the same engine) so there be some interest things. tech 3 has said they'll do a bike. as has bimota and theres a number of rumours alot of other famous names from racings past may show up as well. thats the upside

[gammaguy]

rules are crap.

Its the Moto GP for fuck sake the elite series why run it as a club series?

250 GP owns.

Why allow an engine to be sold if you cant keep up thats your problem tuff shit solve it or go home.

I think the series is going to fall over to be honest riders are not going to want to ride in a series like this World Superbikes gonna become huge in 2012

absolutely right.

they should just re name it Moto Production,forget the idea of it being a leading edge race series where brave new ideas are developed and raced,and merge it with WSBK.

or better still,forget about it altogether(like Kawasaki and others already have)
Barry Sheene,for one,will be turning in his grave.

[James Deuce]

MotoGP is run by an idiot who hasn't quite cottoned on to the difference between the people who are interested in car racing and the people who are interested in motorcycle racing.

The Moto2 class is going to look pretty stupid when Supersport bikes lap at similar speeds. MotoGP is a purist form of racing, the best of the best. It isn't saloon car racing.

The 250GP bikes often provide the best racing of the weekend, and the fact that I can't go and buy anything like it to ride on the road makes it even more exciting IMO. The 600s are going to suffer from inevitable comparison with Supersport.

[FROSTY]

Ya know I don't agree with you lot. ok the parts made of unobtanium wont be able to be used but those teams as you say have million dollar budgets. I suspect they are gonna find ways to extract better handling and more HP from the bikes.
This in turn will inevitably trickle down to the 600 production based class.
I've seen it over the years --what one year is cutting edge next year is on most race bikes and the next is on production bikes. If the idea's a dudd then it dissapears.

[wbks]

Like Pneumatic valve control? Carbon Brake Disks? V4's?
Its MotoGP - The pinnacle of bike development (and riding)... Not the pinnacle of lower cost racing
If this was re-producing 250IL4's for the 125 class and they were going to start producing them for the road again, I would be all for it though.

[samgab]

I can't understand this part:
"Chassis will be a prototype, the design and construction of which is free within the constraints of the FIM Grand Prix Technical Regulations. The frame, swing-arm, fuel tank, seat and cowling are forbidden to use from a non-prototype as series production road-going motorcycle."

It's translated from - French, I think.
Anyway, are they saying that road production frames CANNOT be used?
That the frames/chassis used must be prototypes that are not in mass production?
In which case they can't just throw a mildly modified CBR600RR in to compete.
Is that to prevent privateers from entering?

[Racin Jason]

Sounds to me like there will suddenly be an official class that bikes like the CBR600RR, GSX-R600, YZF-R6, and ZX-6R will fit right into.
But it will miss out bikes like the Duke and the Triumph.

I wonder if any new bike engines will flow through from this race scene, or not. Like a new Honda V4 600 would be cool...

It says in the chassis regs that using production frames swingarms etc is forbidden. So almost the entire bike - frame, engine, etc will pretty much be a prototype. Like motoGP 800s but with tighter rules for cost cutting.


MotoGP is run by an idiot who hasn't quite cottoned on to the difference between the people who are interested in car racing and the people who are interested in motorcycle racing.

The Moto2 class is going to look pretty stupid when Supersport bikes lap at similar speeds. MotoGP is a purist form of racing, the best of the best. It isn't saloon car racing.

The 250GP bikes often provide the best racing of the weekend, and the fact that I can't go and buy anything like it to ride on the road makes it even more exciting IMO. The 600s are going to suffer from inevitable comparison with Supersport.


The 250cc is the best racing, and i believe the 600s will be even better. The fact that every motorcycle will be a prototype will make them exotic in the chassis depart and completly unatainable.
Everyone knows that in racing a good chassis setup is much more important that horsepower. Look at Formula 1 - It has the bigest rules book of almost any motorsport and they still get faster every year. Ferrari suplies other teams with current engines and still whips there asses.

Which leads us to the money factor. Giving too much freedom of design is slowly killing top level motorsport throughout the world. Costs are getting higher faster that inflation. Sure there is always plently of drivers/ riders willing to pay their way but the manufactures are feeling the pinch. Unless more steps like this 600cc class are made It will only get worse.

Remember its the Elite Racers that make up championship level racing. Not their machines. If you want to be the best, you have to race against the best. The best will not be found in supersport.(IMO)

[James Deuce]

The 250cc is the best racing, and i believe the 600s will be even better. The fact that every motorcycle will be a prototype will make them exotic in the chassis depart and completly unatainable.

Absolutely not. Seen it a million times over the years. Because I'm old.

"Prototype" classes with sealed engines always fail spectacularly. There will be no link to sales, no filter down, and because of the that the manufacturers won't be interested at all. Aprilia and Gilera (the Gilera is an Aprilia, but Piaggio have naming rights) are in 250s and 125s because becaue it sells scooters.

Moto2 going to end up a Honda spec class, as it looks like they have won the engine building contract. Suzuki aren't going to put their name on a prototype chassis with a Honda engine (even if it is badged Moto2), so money for this class is going to come entirely from 3rd party sponsorship that motorcycling has always struggled to find because the people who like motorcycle racing are interested in the racing not the spectacle, and a huge percentage of the spectators, even Harley (that was joke, stop throwing things Screaming Eagle purchasers!) riders, can relate to the experience of riding a motorcycle. A lot of people with real money go to F1 races for the chicks, the Champagne, and to be seen.

The other manufacturers will invest in Supersport, a class that relates directly to sales (remember, there's a recession on) and can be developed from something you find on a show room floor, and most of all maintain brand identity, without having to spend millions on chassis development (there's a recession on remember). So even though the unit cost of a Supersport bike might be higher, the ROI and the likelihood of name sponsors with real money is far higher.

The car analogy doesn't fit. Dallara and Lola basically tied down chassis supply for the F1 support classes and Hart did engine supply for a long time. Brands that have no meaning to people at all and didn't attract enough sponsorship to keep the classes solvent. F1 support races aren't open wheeler feeder classes anymore. They're separate championships run on a one make basis with the vehicles prepped by one manufacturer. The teams are based around sponsorship deals.

That model is a mistake for MotoGP. It will lead to the death of the supporting feeder classes and force people into the Supersport-Superbike route to get to MotoGP. Only time will tell, but I think Moto2 is a mistake that will have long ranging implications for the sport and motorcycling in general.

[Sully60]

James Deuce's post above


Thank you for putting that so eloquently Jim. Plus one does my agreement with every sentiment of that post no justice.

It just looks like a half arsed, pseudo prototype, mud blood replacement of one of the few pure classes of any motor racing left.

World Supersport is going to attract a lot more sponsors now than ever before.
That's what I'll be watching.

[samgab]

I'll be interested to see how it pans out, and what, if any, effect it has on the retail market.
Racing definitely affects the bikes available in retail.

For instance, look at all the great 400cc bikes that were available in the 90's, but there are no new ones now.
When really, for many people, a 400cc is about the perfect size. Lighter than a big bike, but still can be quick: at least quicker than a 250.
But the technology on 400 bikes has stalled, time warped back in the 90's.
I wonder what sort of 400 bikes could be around today, if the racing had kept a class for 400s.
Imagine a 2009 version of the RVF400: V4, fuel injected, lighter than a CBR600RR... *sighs*

[samgab]

It says in the chassis regs that using production frames swingarms etc is forbidden. So almost the entire bike - frame, engine, etc will pretty much be a prototype. Like motoGP 800s but with tighter rules for cost cutting.

Oh yeah, you're right; and the bikes I mentioned already are made specifically to fit into the Supersport category. *facepalm* :slap:

[James Deuce]

I was shocked that they went for a 600cc class for Moto2. A multi-cylinder 400cc class made much more sense to me, both from a performance perspective and the "layman's logic" perspective of 400cc being half of 800cc.

Even 500cc would have made better sense, but then there's the inevitable uneducated comparison with the 2 stroke 500cc monsters (monsters more because of tyre and chassis "limitations". Compounding progress is cool.) of season's gone by.

It would have been possible for that class to replace both stroker classes and start a 125 four stroke class up. Sales you see.

I guess they went to 600 to avoid spectacular engine failures so they could maintain the power to weight ratios of the 250s without highly stressed engines.

Bugger that!

[wbks]

Imagine a 2009 version of the RVF400: V4, fuel injected, lighter than a CBR600RR... *sighs*So get out there, make some castings and re do the whole bike into a complete frame, Mr. Briten

[samgab]

So get out there, make some castings and re do the whole bike into a complete frame, Mr. Briten

lol, oh noes, here we go again!

Of course, I could just buy an RVF400 and fit fuel injection to it, after dumping the carbies. I mean, who can seriously be bothered synchronising 4 carbs!

[wbks]

Well the idea of an engine (same design is fine) that isn't 20 years old and been rolled bowled and arseholed is appealing, yes? You could put it under your own name and make the "samgab factory team Badass450-FRV". It would own the f3...

[samgab]

Well the idea of an engine (same design is fine) that isn't 20 years old and been rolled bowled and arseholed is appealing, yes? You could put it under your own name and make the "samgab factory team Badass450-FRV". It would own the f3...

Hmmm, I like the sound of that. Now all I need is the funding, technical know-how, intelligence, and ability to do that, and it'll be sorted ;)

Maybe I should just write a tersely worded letter to Honda, demanding a new RVF400 for 2010 with all the latest tech. Let them do all the RnD. I'm sure they'd listen and take action on that?
If they did come out with a new one, for a reasonable price, that'd be my pick for a brand new bike as a step up from the VTR.

Like you say, I'm not so keen on the idea of paying over $5G for one that's 20 years old and has been owned by an unknown number of other noobs and mistreated and dropped and thrashed....

[gammaguy]

lol, oh noes, here we go again!

Of course, I could just buy an RVF400 and fit fuel injection to it, after dumping the carbies. I mean, who can seriously be bothered synchronising 4 carbs!

LOL

i suppose you think injectors never need synchronising then?ever worked on a VFR 800?what do you think those holes in the side of the frame are for?:Offtopic:

[samgab]

LOL

i suppose you think injectors never need synchronising then?ever worked on a VFR 800?what do you think those holes in the side of the frame are for?:Offtopic:

Are you saying that the injectors in a fuel injected bike need synchronising? I would have thought the ECU would take care of all that... based on a crank position sensor etc.

[wbks]

Well it is honda so there's no chance of them listening to a customer. I'll tell you what, if I ever get around to a casting side of engineering I'll re make a few rvf's in 450 form which will be pneumatic valved (or possible electro hydrualically controlled, I'm waiting to hear back from Renault on testing results), FI and run off higher comp. pistons etc through an essentially renamed, road legal honda rs250 frame... I'll sell one to you for 30, 000 about?

Anyway. We've established most think it's a bad idea, but does anyone really think that a certain amount of GP stuff will 'trickle down' to road going 600's? i.e Yamaha's crossplane crankshaft following in concept from the M1...

[Ivan]

have FIM created rules for a Moto1 class yet as we all know 2014 is the final year for 125's as we know it I think by the looks they want to head along the lines of the Honda MDH250 Woriwaki which uses a Honda CRF250X engine not the R I never understood the reasoning for this as the X is more a trail based bike not as grunty as the CRF250R and has the extras like the starter motor.

My opinion here on 125's for the Future Good idea along Moriwaki ways but run 450 engines that would be better suited as a bit more speed

Ok lets start the discussion here about the future 125's:eek:


And PS 400's arent as coool as SV's:msn-wink:

[James Deuce]

Anyway. We've established most think it's a bad idea, but does anyone really think that a certain amount of GP stuff will 'trickle down' to road going 600's? i.e Yamaha's crossplane crankshaft following in concept from the M1...

No, because there is a single engine supplier. The engines will be about meeting the class rules exactly, not trying new stuff out.

[Sully60]

the Honda MDH250 Woriwaki which uses a Honda CRF250X engine not the R I never understood the reasoning for this as the X is more a trail based bike not as grunty as the CRF250R and has the extras like the starter motor.




Change the cam to an R spec and you have an R with a starter motor and a slightly heavier flywheel. The engine architecture is exactley the same. I guess the reasons for using the X engine have more to do with just specific power output.

I agree with the Deuce about 400's too, half and 800 with the same technology,way cool! Way costly too, actual capacity of engines has very little to with R&D, end cost and ongoing maintenance.

As I said in the aother thread, there are other ways of keeping costs down without 'dumbing' he technological aspects of Grand Prix racing.

[DEATH_INC.]

This has gotta be the biggest abortion ever.

[SixPackBack]

This has gotta be the biggest abortion ever.

Agreed. In fact viewed holistically the motogp vs superbikes is a wankstain!....remove Rossi from motogp and folk would turn away in droves.

Much better to have a true prototype class with bugger all rules [i.e 800's, 500's and 250's all 4 strokes] and keep the present superbikes.

[pritch]

Are you saying that the injectors in a fuel injected bike need synchronising?

Well the throttle bodies do and if you were after the absolutes in performance everything would have to be "just so".

WKBS,

Pnuematic valves haven't made it to production yet because the existing systems leak. The race bikes have a back up reservoir, if the pressure in there drops below a set level, the engine cuts out. That's a much cheaper option than it keeping running (momentarily) with valves stuck open. All very inconvenient on a road bike.

Carbon discs work at very high temperatures. They don't work in the rain.
Moto GP bikes change to steel discs in the wet. Most street bikes will occasionally encounter rain, so as it stands, carbon is not an option for street bikes.

Maybe one day...

[wbks]

Dude, I already knew all that. Thats mainly my point that motogp stuff never seems to trickle down because it's all designed conceptually to last one race with max power. He said if the idea's a dud it dissapears, where as the good ones are passed down to proddy bikes. MotoGP specific idea's for instance like carbon disks, high output v4's, pneumatic valve control, and other stuff like that are only ever going to stay with MotoGP bikes because it's either too expensive to produce (v4's) or as you said it just isn't viable to have to rebuild a bike part between rides (pneumatic vc/carbon disks if you can use them usefully).

Sure, the cross-plane crank off the M1 is worth it, it fits into the current engine with no huge change in production cost compared with making a v4 with twice the valve train which is going to make it a lot more expensive to produce isn't it? That's about the only major trickle down effect I can think of besides just general improvements in design which isn't really due to MotoGP is it?

[Sully60]

Dude, I already knew all that. Thats mainly my point that motogp stuff never seems to trickle down because it's all designed conceptually to last one race with max power. He said if the idea's a dud it dissapears, where as the good ones are passed down to proddy bikes. MotoGP specific idea's for instance like carbon disks, high output v4's, pneumatic valve control, and other stuff like that are only ever going to stay with MotoGP bikes because it's either too expensive to produce (v4's) or as you said it just isn't viable to have to rebuild a bike part between rides (pneumatic vc/carbon disks if you can use them usefully).
Fuck all people can fully utilise the capabilities of current sportbikes, whats the point?-See below:


Sure, the cross-plane crank off the M1 is worth it, it fits into the current engine with no huge change in production cost compared with making a v4 with twice the valve train which is going to make it a lot more expensive to produce isn't it? That's about the only major trickle down effect I can think of besides just general improvements in design which isn't really due to MotoGP is it?

...Marketing gimmick.

[wbks]

"...Marketing gimmick."
So are 200hp+ road legal sports bikes... That said, I'd buy one if I had the money!

[Sully60]

"...Marketing gimmick."
So are 200hp+ road legal sports bikes... That said, I'd buy one if I had the money!

So would I, but I'd also spend the purchase price of the bike in the first six months running it. Did you consider that side of it?
That's what I mean about being able fully utilise it, it's not just about being able to ride the bike, you have to be able to maintain it.
It's hard enough with 100hp let alone 200, trust me I know.

[wbks]

Are you talking about an R1 for instance? I would have thought they'd be cheap to run... I'll take your word for it tho

[Sully60]

I would have thought they'd be cheap to run...


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

You have much to learn young padawan.

[wbks]

I... Don't really have anything to say to that one :(

[Brian d marge]

Not an expert in MotoGP but why the fuck make bikes of smaller capacity rev lower than MotoGP class bikes? And make Pneumatic illegal, limit carb size and limit all other kinds of crap? I thought MotoGP is supposed to be the pinnacle of road racing motorcycle design?

Money


I think they are a brilliant set of rules , as a Engineer all the obvious avenues a nailed shut ,,, but the there is more than one way to make a bike go fast,,,,

Remember it wasn't just Rossi ...who won the championship ..it was Rossi and burgess and co ,,, , How many Gps did Honda win after burgess left???

Sod the motogp ..this class will be interesting ,,,,

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

Dude, I already knew all that. Thats mainly my point that motogp stuff never seems to trickle down


lets think of a few things that have trickled down;

Aluminium frames , Suspension , radial tyres , The 2 stroke expansion chamber, ( the Oval piston !!) .... short rod ratios , pressure casing ..................you can add to this if you want ,,,,

Racing is a business , and helps shift bikes off the show room floor , .....it trickles down all right


I race , a vintage bike its used as a rolling test bed .....

Stephen

[wbks]

lol you'll have to forgive me, all of those things were around long before I was born

[samgab]

lol you'll have to forgive me, all of those things were around long before I was born

Come on man! Just think of the things that have filtered down from motor racing: The wheel, the internal combustion engine, petrol, the ball bearing, aluminium...

[wharfy]

About the only thing that boosts technology more than competition is a bloody good war. :)

[Sully60]

Just to counter my slightly negative earlier posts, I believe the biggest thing that has already started to filter down from the modern 4-stroke GP racing is electronics.
It's obvious that even the Rossi's, Stoner's and Gibernau's of this world can't use all the power of that the bikes have for at least for the full duration of the a GP, tyre technology just doesn't allow it yet.

Switchable ignition curves aren't exactly new, but corner recognition software in the engine managment system is an example of what's achievable, how that could be applied to roadbikes is a matter for conjecture.

The change to 21 litre fuel tanks has also had a dramatic effect on how long the bikes can run at their full potential. Ducati together Shell have been the leaders in this field, I was positive Casey's bike was going to run out of fuel at the 07 Qatar GP but the bike ran hard right to the end of the race, though I don't think there would have been left for slow down lap shennanigans.

So oils and fuel technology could be some of the things that filter down relatively quickly, a bit boring compared to pneumatic valves and carbon bling widgets but it all goes towards making machines work better and perform better and that can only be good.

Back on topic, I just can't see how the the rules as posted for Moto2 are going to further any of this development.

[Brian d marge]

Back on topic, I just can't see how the the rules as posted for Moto2 are going to further any of this development.

have a look at how tightly nailed down the F1 rules are, them engineers are trixy them is.....

be interesting to see how it pans out ,,,,,,,

he says dusting off his ...1991 cbr600

[cowpoos]

Moto2 going to end up a Honda spec class, as it looks like they have won the engine building contract. .


Where is there mention of a single engine supplier??? there isn't is there??? so how has everyone come to this conclusion??

also...can some one tell me the output of a AMA formula extreme 600??

[cowpoos]

Oh and for the record...I reckon this will produce an awesome class of motorcycle racing!! and I fully support it!! the chassis design will be the key to being at the front of this class initially...engine development will follow after a few years I'm sure!! and the use of 17inch rims will help with trickle down tyre development once again...aslong as its not going to be a one make tyre class...

[SixPackBack]

Oh and for the record...I reckon this will produce an awesome class of motorcycle racing!! and I fully support it!! the chassis design will be the key to being at the front of this class initially...engine development will follow after a few years I'm sure!! and the use of 17inch rims will help with trickle down tyre development once again...aslong as its not going to be a one make tyre class...

Except the class is so close to 600 supersport that all we will see is parallel development, resource conflicts and the inevitable reduction in marquee participation.

[svr]

Oh and for the record...I reckon this will produce an awesome class of motorcycle racing!! and I fully support it!!

Me too, actually. Limited engines and open chassis is the right combination for this class. But we'll just have to wait and see...