Battery not charging - why?

[Ruralman]

Hi guys, hopefully someone can help with this.
I put a new battery in the Tiger about a year ago. Over the last few months it seems to go flat and taking it for a ride does not charge it up. I have bought a trickle charger and if I hook that on when I get back from a ride then its usually right for a while, but if I leave it for a week it will often start OK but then after a trip it can struggle to start.
It did it to me when I went down to Milton (17km) to get a warrant - the garage gave it a charge up so I could get home and when the battery went in they put a meter on it and it was registering between 12-13 volts from recollection (that was a while ago)
Even running without the hotgrips or extra lights going doesn't seem to make much difference - in fact the hotgrips (oxford) aren't that bloody good anyway but I'm begining to wonder whether I shouldn't stop bagging the Oxfords (had the daytona ones on my Transalp which worked really well) and suspect the heat from the grips is another symptom of the same problem.
Do you reckon I've just ended up with a dud battery ??
If its something in the bikes ability to charge it up then whats the likely cause and what do I do (or rather get done $$$) about that??
Thanks
Bruce

[junkmanjoe]

could just have one dud cell in batt,

[Frodo]

Have you checked your charging circuit? I had an F650 where the voltage regulator rectifier died. This is not an uncommon problem. Had one go on a previous Suzuki I owned. Most VRRs are made in Japan, so your Tiger could have one of those. Get a voltmeter and check the voltage at, say, the battery. Should be between 13 and 14 volts from memory (check your manual). If it is above or below the range, the VRR is probably buggered. Note that a stuffed VRR can cook your battery too. And in the Suzuki, it took out the alternator wiring.

Its relatively simple to replace the VRR. The BMW one cost about $300, from memory.

Cheers

[buggsubique]

If you have a digital multimeter or a mate who knows what they're looking for then check:
1. AC voltage out from the stator (to see if the stator is f*cked).
2. DC out from the rectifier (to see if the rectifier is cooked).
3. DC into the battery (do this at the battery end to see if there are any bad connections on the way, like a corroded plug or broken wire etc).
4. If all that is fine, then the battery should be charging but may just not be holding charge. So then check:
5. Current draw from the battery when bike is completely turned off. Could be a stray current flattening your battery over time or the battery is just stuffed and wont hold any charge anyway so get a new one.


Not sure what sort of Voltage you're looking for at the stator, maybe around 90VAC or so? The DC side should be around 12-15V, ideally around 14V I think, a bit less at the battery. Good luck!

[Underground]

http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/library/diagnosis/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf Try this link and follow all the steps

[awayatc]

another 2 cents worth.....: sounds like said above that battery is not charging...you can check that with multimeter in 2 sec.(terminals connected to battery terminals= certain voltage 12 hopefully. Start engine and voltage should jump to about 14 v or so if charging....If votage remains same=no charging)
Usualy it is a dirty/corroded connection or no earth.....( To check this I usualy connect lets say a jumperlead from negative battery to good earth on frame/engine....and then check battery voltage with running engine again..)
Anything other then that is following above posted advice..
Good luck

[Underground]

http://http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/library/diagnosis/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

[Ruralman]

Thanks for those replies - I will check those out, hopefully this week, and see what the answer is.

[98tls]

How old is the battery?

[Ruralman]

How old is the battery?

Well I bought it just under a year ago

[Tony W]

Well I bought it just under a year ago

Is there a 2yr warranty, like car batteries ? Sounds like a dud.

[FJRider]

Just check all connections are clean. Crap on the terminals restricts charging ability... A mix of baking soda and warm water does wonders in this regard...

[Ruralman]

Well I checked the earth wire on the battery and the battery end of it came off with a slight wriggle - ah hah I thought - so I repaired that, started the bike up and left it idling for a while with the hotgrips turned on high - when I came back one of them was luke warm and the other hadn't even got that warm.

So that looks like the end of the first "cheap fix" opportunity. I will give the terminals a clean but I really don't think there's enough there to be an issue.

The other puzzle was that I noticed that when I revved the bike up the lights actually dimmed, and then brightened again when it returned to idle. Turning the grips off didn't make any difference to this. I doubt that this is normal???? Does this suggest one of these voltage regulator things is knackered?

It would be very handy to have one of those multi meter things

[awayatc]

well you found one thing obviously wrong with your wiring.....all the right aswers to your next question have allready been provided in response to your first problem.
Up to you to act on it....
Yes multimeters are handy and quite inexpensive.....
Good luck

[Ruralman]

Thanks for all the advise
In the end the problem got fixed almost by accident today when I took it in to Honda Otago.
In the process of testing everything it looks like the problem was a bit of corrosion in the plug points of a joiner that links the alternator/stator to the Regulator/Rectifier. After this plug had been pulled apart and put back together a few times during the testing we suddenly got a decent output at the battery, so it got pulled apart once more given a good scratch and then squirted with the protective stuff.
I have also replaced the battery which seemed a bit dodgy (and I can use the old one on my sheep scales anyway so that wasn't a big deal).
On the way home my hotgrips actually worked reasonably well - first time in a long time!! (although I still don't reckon they're as good as the more basic Daytona ones I had on my Transalp)
If it had been a rectifier needing replacement the genuine Triumph part was just over $700 !!!! - they reckoned they could have wired in an aftermarket version for under $300.
Just shows how much effect a little bit of corrosion inside something thats out of the way, well protected etc, can have on the system.

[vifferman]

In the process of testing everything it looks like the problem was a bit of corrosion in the plug points of a joiner that links the alternator/stator to the Regulator/Rectifier.
A not uncommon nailment, that sometimes nails the R/R and/or battery


If it had been a rectifier needing replacement the genuine Triumph part was just over $700 !!!! - they reckoned they could have wired in an aftermarket version for under $300.
It's nonsense, y'know.
NONE of the bike manufacturers make their own R/Rs, yet they ALL whack a fooking great markup on them just to say they're "genuine" parts. That's $400 in this case, for what may well have been exactly the same item, which has no more of a warranty or anything than the 'aftermarket' (usually Shindengen) item.

[warewolf]

Don't forget that bike manufacturers add significant margin to parts in order to offset the cheap sale of whole bikes. Plus they are working with much lower volumes of each part than a specialist, with increased packaging costs (to print their bike brand on the box).

On the plus side, you can buy from your bike dealer without having to do any research or shopping around yourself, and the part will be suited to the task.

[Skinny_Birdman]

It appears that Electrex (http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/) make R/Rs for Triumphs, although their website doesn't seem to say for which models. I would be surprised, therefore, if it required 'wiring in'. Certainly the Electrex R/R for my Blackbird was plug and play, of better quality than the OEM part, and cost about $180 via the UK. Mind you, the old $NZ was a bit stronger then.
Here's (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Regulator-Rectifier-Triumph-955I-Tiger-Sprint-1050_W0QQitemZ230325904523QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ200 90216?IMSfp=TL090216115002r39360) one on e-bay for 90 quid.... which works out to about NZ$250, which, with postage works out to about.... well, you might save a few $$$ in the event.:sweatdrop

[vifferman]

Certainly the Electrex R/R for my Blackbird was plug and play, of better quality than the OEM part
Really? :confused:
That wasn't the case with the Electrex R/Rs for VFRs - they turned out to be VERY unreliable. Electrex started out very confident they could improve on the Shindengen R/Rs, but it wasn't as easy as they thought (which is weird, because there's not actually a lot to an R/R).

[Skinny_Birdman]

Well, I must admit that I only kept my 'Bird for another 8000miles, but I believe other owners, such as KB'er Blackbird swear by theirs, and I've never heard of a problem with the Blackbird model. I did a reasonable amount of research before I bought mine, not wanting to go to all the trouble for a lemon. I could of course be wrong though... I was once.:D

[cooneyr]

From what I've read, keeping plugs clean and conductive is key to not frying R/R's (plus other electrics). The Africa Twins and Super Tenere's were a bit notorious for frying R/R's but it seems that the plugs on them were complete rubbish (not sealed so water, dust crap gets in and they don't fit very well). Supposidly a poor connection (high resistance) makes the R/R think the voltage to the bike (not from the engine) is to low so it allows a higher voltage i.e. greater than it should be, which starts cooking things.

Both my bro and I have replaced the R/R plugs on our S10's cause there were looking very very cruddy and buggered after 60,000 odd kms (other plugs were fine). Be worth checking next time you have access.

Cheers R

[vifferman]

From what I've read, keeping plugs clean and conductive is key to not frying R/R's (plus other electrics).
Yup.
Occasional checking, cleaning and coating with dielectric grease is a good idea for all bikes: the R/R plugs, any other plugs in the charging circuit, the battery cables, and the earths/grounds.