Why does a chain wear unevenly?

[Winston001]

Just discovered my chain is very tight in one spot - after I'd carefully adjusted it of course! I had adjusted until there was about 35 - 40mm play to allow for having raised the rear of the bike. In other words, slightly loose. Then turning the wheel I discovered the chain tightened up to no slack at all.

At the tight point, the chain appears to only partly fit on the rear sprocket. From about halfway around, it sits slightly out - not much but I can see the grease margins on the sprocket from where the sideplates normally sit. When turned to the loose position all links appear to sit in the teeth.

Why would a modern motorcycle chain stretch so unevenly? I don't know if this is the original chain - bike has 19,000km on it and I've had it since 9000k.

[McDuck]

Not lubed enough? Genrally somthing wrong, new chain time.

[cowboyz]

and sprockets. 20k out of a chain and sprockets is a little low but without regular (and by regular I mean the recommended 300k lube) it is not inconcievable. New chain and sprockets required.

[sinfull]

Not lubed enough? Genrally somthing wrong, new chain time.
Previous owner could have been wheelie mad or drag racing it ? Own up Winston !!!

Perhaps a light chain ?

But def time to get rid of it !

[awayatc]

my chain developed a tight spot as well....after only 7000 kms though....
Replaced it with one that hopefully lasts a bit longer....

[Winston001]

Hmmmm......this isn't very helpful team, no way I want to splash out for a new chain and sprockets.

I need a second opinion.

How about I reverse the chain......and do a few wheelies to balance out the tension....?? :D

[xwhatsit]

Chains always seem to end up with `tight spots' (they're not really a tight spot though, are they, they're just unworn where the rest of the chain is worn, right?) and sometimes sticky links if there's a bit of corrosion. I'm not sure why they do that but it certainly seems to be the rule rather than the exception. Even my pricy O-ring chain has done that (I think they're probably worse once an O-ring or two wears out and lets the lube out and water/dirt in).

If the sprockets are fine, just do what I'm doing -- get a cheap heavy duty non-O-ring chain and use up the rest of the sprockets with that.

I don't think most people are worried about a tight spot on the chain though; the important thing is to adjust it for the tight spot, otherwise it'll be overtight in that one spot and do nasty things to the output shaft bearings.

I thought you were an old-school biker? You should know all about chains wearing out!

[Flip]

Chains always seem to fail like this. Water and corrosion seem to be the problem. I has a scott oiler on my 1200 Trophy and it did almost 50k on a chain and sprocket set.

[Ixion]

Chains always seem to end up with `tight spots' (they're not really a tight spot though, are they, they're just unworn where the rest of the chain is worn, right?) ..
I thought you were an old-school biker? You should know all about chains wearing out!

Correct. Chains don't develop tight spots they develop loose spots. The tight bits are the unworn bits.

Why do they wear unevenly? Who knows. Manufacturing variation in the hardness of components. Variation in lubrication and exposure to abrasive dust. The latte rmay be mor important, since fully enclosed chains (running in an oil or grease bath) both last more or less forever (except on pre unit Triumph primary drives :argh:), and seem to wear very evenly
I think the Churchillian gentleman came from a BMW background.

[Winston001]

I thought you were an old-school biker? You should know all about chains wearing out!

Well yes. I still had a Duckhams chain bath under my bench until a couple of years ago. :2thumbsup Shame I threw it out but it was leaking.




I think the Churchillian gentleman came from a BMW background.

Exactemont. Haven't had to think about chains for 20 years so bit of a learning curve here. :D

[Mental Trousers]

As pointed out, chains don't develop tight spots, it's just the rest of the chain gets loose from wear while the so called tight spot hasn't worn.
The reason chains wear unevenly is because they're made up of hundreds of parts that appear to be identical, but are all different on a level that we can't see. So, when subjected to repetitive movements a few million times they end up in different states.
Also, different links experience different conditions, ie 1 link may get some grit in it that others don't so it wears at a different rate.

[Winston001]

The reason chains wear unevenly is because they're made up of hundreds of parts that appear to be identical, but are all different on a level that we can't see. So, when subjected to repetitive movements a few million times they end up in different states.
Also, different links experience different conditions, ie 1 link may get some grit in it that others don't so it wears at a different rate.

Ah so this is a quantum thing. Cool. I get it now. Some of the chain is in another part of space/time and quantum fluctuations produce warps in the local area.

Well, that is certainly an eyeopener. Cheers. :scooter:

[vifferman]

You're all talking shit.

Chains wear unevenly for two reasons:
Firstly, because of built-in bastardliness. If the manufactucturers built the wonderful, brilliantly manufactured, high-tech, super-duper chains they advertise, they'd last virtually forever. So they add a link or two here, and a roller there, and some wonky XYZ-rings there, that are bastards from the reject line. So your chain starts off looking all high-tech, shiny, gold-plated and wonderful, and gradually develops a personality of its own.
Secondly, they wear unevenly because no-one rides evenly. All that accelerating, wheelies, stoppies, riding over bumps, the swingarm pounding up and down, it acts in concert with the built-inbastardliness to fook the chain.
Thirdly, the bike and chain manufacturers pay the chain lube manufacturers to supply chain lube with secret ingredients such as abrasives, corrosion accelerators, and binding agents. They're all designed to produce a special grinding paste that's coloured red, so if you happen to go to a bike dealer, he can tell at a glance your chain is fookt, because it has red stuff on it.
Three-and-a-halfly, spooge. Chains are living organisms: they eat road spooge, drink chain lube, and shit out this nasty stuff called chain spooge. Stickier than the stickiest snot (which as we all know is gorilla snot), blacker and shittier than the blackest and shittiest black shit, in Nature it's designed as a fatal territorial marking to keep other chains away. Sadly, when the chain is captive on a bike, the chain spooge has nowhere to go but on the rider's leg, on the paintwork, and all over the chain itself, eventually causing PAMCFASITTRW (Premature And Messy Chain Failure And Serioius Injury To The Rider's Wallet).
Fourthly, misinformation about how to care for your chain. "WD40 will wreck your chain". "Use only motor oil". "Use only special chain lube" (with secret ingredients, of course).

All this has come about because chains are now fashion accessories. In the old days, they were hideously ugly, so they were hidden under clunky great chain guards, and never even thought about. Nowadays, you can get them anodised to match your bike or accessorise with your lingerie: gold, red, green, purple, or even leopard print. They all have fancy sexy names, and fancy 4-figure price tags, so you think you're buying into an exclusive chain-owners club. You feel good about your new acquisition, and about all the special chain care toiletries you're lavishing it with.
You scoff at owners of shaft-drive bikes, feel sorry for the poor guys with rubber band driven bikes, and smile your secret smile because you know they're not true motorcyclists who know how to clean and lube a chain, and become one with their machine. Those poor bastids! :Pokey:

[The Stranger]

Hmmmm......this isn't very helpful team, no way I want to splash out for a new chain and sprockets.

I need a second opinion.

How about I reverse the chain......and do a few wheelies to balance out the tension....?? :D

Just replace the fooken things.
19k isn't too bloody bad, stop being a tight arse.

What is the condition of the cush drive?
Not a common problem but the cush drive in the XT failed at 15k. The sprocket went all floppy, flogged out the carrier bearing, chain and sprockets. Shit happens, deal with it.

[Winston001]

Just replace the fooken things.
19k isn't too bloody bad, stop being a tight arse.

What is the condition of the cush drive?
Not a common problem but the cush drive in the XT failed at 15k. The sprocket went all floppy, flogged out the carrier bearing, chain and sprockets. Shit happens, deal with it.

Cush drive?? Sounds ghey to me. Ducatis don't have em. :yes:

But I could have a look I suppose.

Gents - a small confession. When I came back from the 4k North Island trip at New Year, there were various unsettling clunks from the chain south of Timaru. Being tired and heading into a night ride I said sod it and rode on......as you do. In hindsight I think the chain was so loose that it was riding up on the sprocket teeth now and then.

Bugger.

[vifferman]

In hindsight I think the chain was so loose that it was riding up on the sprocket teeth now and then.
There you go!
I told you, din I?
Built-in bastardliness. :eek5:

[imdying]

Chains always seem to end up with `tight spots' (they're not really a tight spot though, are they, they're just unworn where the rest of the chain is worn, right?) Have definitely seen tight spots. The chain on the RGV when I brought it was totally fucked... so tight in spots that the links would remain locked at an angle even when traveling around the sprockets... truly horrid. I don't consider that 'typical' though, I think it was just pretty neglected.

[vifferman]

Have definitely seen tight spots. The chain on the RGV when I brought it was totally fucked... so tight in spots that the links would remain locked at an angle even when traveling around the sprockets... truly horrid. I don't consider that 'typical' though, I think it was just pretty neglected.
It was proberly thoroughly lubed using the recommended chain lube with secret ingredients, which activated the built-in bastardliness.

[The Stranger]

Gents - a small confession. When I came back from the 4k North Island trip at New Year, there were various unsettling clunks from the chain south of Timaru. Being tired and heading into a night ride I said sod it and rode on......as you do. In hindsight I think the chain was so loose that it was riding up on the sprocket teeth now and then.

Bugger.

Gah! thud.
Why do we fucken bother?

[Winston001]

You're all talking shit.

Chains wear unevenly for two reasons:
Firstly, because of built-in bastardliness. If the manufactucturers built the wonderful, brilliantly manufactured, high-tech, super-duper chains they advertise, they'd last virtually forever. So they add a link or two here, and a roller there, and some wonky XYZ-rings there, that are bastards from the reject line. So your chain starts off looking all high-tech, shiny, gold-plated and wonderful, and gradually develops a personality of its own.
Secondly, they wear unevenly because no-one rides evenly. All that accelerating, wheelies, stoppies, riding over bumps, the swingarm pounding up and down, it acts in concert with the built-inbastardliness to fook the chain.
Thirdly, the bike and chain manufacturers pay the chain lube manufacturers to supply chain lube with secret ingredients such as abrasives, corrosion accelerators, and binding agents. They're all designed to produce a special grinding paste that's coloured red, so if you happen to go to a bike dealer, he can tell at a glance your chain is fookt, because it has red stuff on it.
Three-and-a-halfly, spooge. Chains are living organisms: they eat road spooge, drink cahin lube, and shit out this nasty stuff called chain spooge. Stickier than the stickiest snot, blacker and shittier than the blackest and shittiest black shit, in Nature it's designed as a fatal territorial marking to keep other chains away. Sadly, when the chain is captive on a bike, the chain spooge has nowhere to go but on the rider's leg, on the paintwork, and all over the chain itself, eventually causing PAMCFAITTRW (Premature And Messy Chain Failure And Injury To The Rider's Wallet).
Fourthly, misinformation about how to care for your chain. "WD40 will wreck your chain". "Use only motor oil". "Use only special chain lube" (with secret ingredients, of course).
All this has come about because chains are now fashion accessories. In the old days, they were hideously ugly, so they were hidden under clunky great chain guards, and never even thought about. Nowadays, you can get them anodised to match your bike or accessorise with your lingerie: gold, red, green, purple, or even leopard print. They all have fancy sexy names, and fancy 4-figure price tags, so you think you're buying into an exclusive chain-owners club. You feel good about your new acquisition, and about all the special chain care toiletries you're lavishing it with.
You scoff at owners of shaft-drive bikes, feel sorry for the poor guys with rubber band driven bikes, and smile your secret smile because you know they're not true motorcyclists who know how to clean and lube a chain, and become one with their machine. Those poor bastids! :Pokey:

"You must spread some reputation yadda yadda" :D

[Winston001]

Gah! thud.
Why do we fucken bother?

So whut?? :innocent: Does not the swallow fly south for the winter?

oh hang on......wrong script......


Anyway yeah. The chain might have been challenged a few times, it mattereth not a whit. It should be tough and stand up to the odd clunk. I withdraw my confession cos it's irrelevant and wasn't rendered as a device to be beaten with. :2guns:

[FROSTY]

Gosh you lot talk a load of shit--Truth is the bikes a Ducati
because of this any German will remember the italian "support' In WW2 and anyone american or british wont like it.
Knowing full well the weak link of your bike is the chain we have all been pissing on that same spot on your bike for years
Now you'll be thinking --ahh but I had a BMW--well we did the same thing to that and in a few years time the universals will collapse.

Or of course Vifferman could be right and being a duc its a pretty torquey bike -I'd bite the bullet and fit a Heavy duty NON o ring chain and a scotoiler But I prefer my story :whistle::whistle:

[Winston001]

Gosh you lot talk a load of shit--Truth is the bikes a Ducati
because of this any German will remember the italian "support' In WW2 and anyone american or british wont like it.
Knowing full well the weak link of your bike is the chain we have all been pissing on that same spot on your bike for years
Now you'll be thinking --ahh but I had a BMW--well we did the same thing to that and in a few years time the universals will collapse.

Or of course Vifferman could be right and being a duc its a pretty torquey bike -I'd bite the bullet and fit a Heavy duty NON o ring chain and a Scottoiler. But I prefer my story :whistle::whistle:

Alright alright already. I get the message. :headbang:

Next thing - any recommended places to get sprockets/chains? I can go to my local bike shop and normally do but like to know what the choices are.

And just got a Loobman oiler which is currently partly fitted. Just doing some improvements of the design and in the meantime give the nitpickers (they know who they are....) something to point out at the Garston Rally. :spanking:

[bsasuper]

:corn:



----------------------------------

[The Stranger]

Anyway yeah. The chain might have been challenged a few times, it mattereth not a whit. It should be tough and stand up to the odd clunk. I withdraw my confession cos it's irrelevant and wasn't rendered as a device to be beaten with. :2guns:

This is one of those rare posts that has me lost for words.


What exactly is the purpose of this thread?
It appears that you want the chain to somehow magically be well, but no one will make it right for you.


You finally confess you fucked the chain yourself and your way to get the thread back on topic - i.e. the people of KB healing your chain, is..... wait for it..... withdraw your confession, and voila your chain is now all better.

Sometimes in life you just have to face the fact that you and you alone fucked up and you have to pay for your own mistakes yourself. You can't blame anyone else - the buck stops with you. It can be a bitter pill to swallow I know, but you just got to face facts and bite the bullet.

[Ixion]

There was a time , some few years ago, when manufacturers were all bring out shaft driven models, and it appeared that that archaic monstrosity the chain would (unlamentably) disappear from the motorcycling scene. Alas, it seems to have made a come back

I cannot understand why the manufacturers are allowed to get away with a fitment that requires constant attendance and maintenance , and *still* only lasts for a fraction of the time that any reasonable person would expect.

If manufacturers cannot fit a chain that will reliably last for 200000km (and I see no reason why they should not, they did in the past), then they should use shaft drive.

And don't get me started on modern tyres. Fifty years ago they lasted 30000 MILES. One would expect that with modern improved technology they should last at least 100000 km. To be expected to replace them after only 20000 km is absurd and unacceptable.
t

[Motu]

fully enclosed chains (running in an oil or grease bath) both last more or less forever (except on pre unit Triumph primary drives :argh:), and seem to wear very evenly


No one notices this - but everyone notices their open air chain wearing out.Fully enclosed and lubed chains just do their job and are completely ignored,just like a shaft drive.How many people know if they have some sort of chain (apart from cam chain) inside their engine doing it's job unobserved?

Most 4X4's have a chain drive transfer box....and all will do 500,000km without anybody knowing they are there.

But we can't have a fully enclosed and lubed chain on a motorcycle - Mr Style would not be pleased....take it off now! Mr Style will not be seen to look uncool before his peers.

[xwhatsit]

If manufacturers cannot fit a chain that will reliably last for 200000km (and I see no reason why they should not, they did in the past), then they should use shaft drive.
Because due to drivetrain losses I'm already looking at about 20hp (if I'm lucky) from a 26hp engine -- shaft drive and the thing will make even less and weigh far more as well.

Plus, everybody knows shafties can't wheelie. It's physics, you see.

The fully-enclosed thing I just don't understand. I'd love it if there was an aftermarket manufacture who made enclosures. Makes a hell of a difference on a Cub, and that's not an immersed chain either.

[Winston001]

This is one of those rare posts that has me lost for words.


What exactly is the purpose of this thread?
It appears that you want the chain to somehow magically be well, but no one will make it right for you.


You finally confess you fucked the chain yourself and your way to get the thread back on topic - i.e. the people of KB healing your chain, is..... wait for it..... withdraw your confession, and voila your chain is now all better.

Sometimes in life you just have to face the fact that you and you alone fucked up and you have to pay for your own mistakes yourself. You can't blame anyone else - the buck stops with you. It can be a bitter pill to swallow I know, but you just got to face facts and bite the bullet.

J' suis desole :crybaby: A feeble attempt at humour to cover my own mistake. My humble apologies.

Odd as it must seem to those of you experienced with chains, I hadn't concluded it was stuffed. I genuinely don't know - which is why I asked about tight spots. The chain still drives the bike but I accept it needs to be replaced.

Thanks guys for your input.

[Mc TOOL]

[QUOTE=Winston001;1941649]Cush drive?? Sounds ghey to me. Ducatis don't have em. :yes:

.bollox mine has 2 , neither of them work Chain wax is the go here apply sparingly and leave overnight , almost zero flyoff. Doing this I lube the chain about every thousand k's and the last one is still going at 20 odd thousand k,s
AND you get what you pay for
AND If you rig up some sort of shield to keep rain and road shit from being flung off the back wheel in the wet, ( just where the chain passes the tyre ) helps a lot too

[Mc TOOL]

You're all talking shit.

Chains wear unevenly for two reasons:
Firstly, because of built-in bastardliness. If the manufactucturers built the wonderful, brilliantly manufactured, high-tech, super-duper chains they advertise, they'd last virtually forever. So they add a link or two here, and a roller there, and some wonky XYZ-rings there, that are bastards from the reject line. So your chain starts off looking all high-tech, shiny, gold-plated and wonderful, and gradually develops a personality of its own.
Secondly, they wear unevenly because no-one rides evenly. All that accelerating, wheelies, stoppies, riding over bumps, the swingarm pounding up and down, it acts in concert with the built-inbastardliness to fook the chain.
Thirdly, the bike and chain manufacturers pay the chain lube manufacturers to supply chain lube with secret ingredients such as abrasives, corrosion accelerators, and binding agents. They're all designed to produce a special grinding paste that's coloured red, so if you happen to go to a bike dealer, he can tell at a glance your chain is fookt, because it has red stuff on it.
Three-and-a-halfly, spooge. Chains are living organisms: they eat road spooge, drink chain lube, and shit out this nasty stuff called chain spooge. Stickier than the stickiest snot (which as we all know is gorilla snot), blacker and shittier than the blackest and shittiest black shit, in Nature it's designed as a fatal territorial marking to keep other chains away. Sadly, when the chain is captive on a bike, the chain spooge has nowhere to go but on the rider's leg, on the paintwork, and all over the chain itself, eventually causing PAMCFASITTRW (Premature And Messy Chain Failure And Serioius Injury To The Rider's Wallet).
Fourthly, misinformation about how to care for your chain. "WD40 will wreck your chain". "Use only motor oil". "Use only special chain lube" (with secret ingredients, of course).

All this has come about because chains are now fashion accessories. In the old days, they were hideously ugly, so they were hidden under clunky great chain guards, and never even thought about. Nowadays, you can get them anodised to match your bike or accessorise with your lingerie: gold, red, green, purple, or even leopard print. They all have fancy sexy names, and fancy 4-figure price tags, so you think you're buying into an exclusive chain-owners club. You feel good about your new acquisition, and about all the special chain care toiletries you're lavishing it with.
You scoff at owners of shaft-drive bikes, feel sorry for the poor guys with rubber band driven bikes, and smile your secret smile because you know they're not true motorcyclists who know how to clean and lube a chain, and become one with their machine. Those poor bastids! :Pokey:

Jeesus Vifferman , I thought I was king of the drug induced fantacy ranting ;)
Id love a bag of whatever that was

[Mc TOOL]

There was a time , some few years ago, when manufacturers were all bring out shaft driven models, and it appeared that that archaic monstrosity the chain would (unlamentably) disappear from the motorcycling scene. Alas, it seems to have made a come back

I cannot understand why the manufacturers are allowed to get away with a fitment that requires constant attendance and maintenance , and *still* only lasts for a fraction of the time that any reasonable person would expect.

If manufacturers cannot fit a chain that will reliably last for 200000km (and I see no reason why they should not, they did in the past), then they should use shaft drive.

And don't get me started on modern tyres. Fifty years ago they lasted 30000 MILES. One would expect that with modern improved technology they should last at least 100000 km. To be expected to replace them after only 20000 km is absurd and unacceptable.
t

Yeah the chain is a bit of an engineering oddity but when you think of where it opperates , it doesnt have an easy life . most well cared for , well made chains will do 20000 km,s ( Im sure you didnt really mean 200000 km,s ). I have found ( over the many years I have ridden ) that regular cleaning and lubing wiil make any 1/2 decent chain last well.
Dont buy shit chains ( and they are out there !) , I use either regina, RK or did O ring chains. It is important ,too that the correct type is used , and dont trust the local bike shop to put you right there either , I bought a $180 chain for my 900ss and when I wanted a rivot link there were none available ..... turns out the chain was designed for a " up to 250 cc "motocross bike ( I put it on the kdx ) . as for the tryes , I think things are getting better. I used to be lucky to get 3000k's out of the old phantoms (VFR750 ) , then I got 5000k's from michelin m/a 59's ( on the paso ) and now I am 6000k's into a set of diablo's ( 900ss ) and there is still some left. I think tyres and chains often get the shit end of the stick maitainance wise and power outputs are well up on the old days ( remember when you had to know how to fettle a bike just to keep it going long enough get the girlfriend home to her anxious parents ). Shafts are cool , till you have to cough up for a set of rear drive gears ( 850t ) Phuck me !!! I didn't pay that much for the bike , Oh yeah does anyone have a alternater rotor for a 74 850t Guzzi they dont want ?

[Ixion]

I did mean 200000. A fully enclosed lubricated chain should easily be able to do that. If it can't the engineering's wrong.

[Brian d marge]

So ...if an oil enclosed chain does a million miles and an open chain doesnt ,,,the answer why a chain wears is.......

lubrication ,

stephen

[Motu]

Zigactly! So it's obviously a design fault - the manufacturer supplies a fully enclosed,lubricated and self adjusting primary or cam chain,alt chain,oil pump chain etc....and they last the life of the vehicle....if correctly designed.The fact that they supply an exposed and unlubricated final drive is because of consumer demand.....they want an exposed unlubricated chain....but they also want to complain about the maintenance,and the replacement cost.

When we see complaints outnumber requests,then we will see a design change.

[Ixion]

We almost did. twice. Once in the 70s with fully enclosed oil bath chains. And again in the 80s with shaft drive.

Where it all went wrong was when manufacturers when hog wild on producing race replicas. Race bikes use chains. Thereforethey must be the best thing for road bikes. Yeah. Right

Same with tyres. 6000km from a tyre is obscene. But until people lay down the law and demand better, they won't get it.

I refuse to use any tyre that will not give me 20000 km from the rear and 30000 from the front. And I think those figures are WAY lower than they should be

Bikers of the world, arise ! You have nothing to lose but your chains.

[Leyton]

Three-and-a-halfly, spooge. Chains are living organisms: they eat road spooge, drink chain lube, and shit out this nasty stuff called chain spooge. Stickier than the stickiest snot (which as we all know is gorilla snot), blacker and shittier than the blackest and shittiest black shit, in Nature it's designed as a fatal territorial marking to keep other chains away. Sadly, when the chain is captive on a bike, the chain spooge has nowhere to go but on the rider's leg, on the paintwork, and all over the chain itself, eventually causing PAMCFASITTRW (Premature And Messy Chain Failure And Serioius Injury To The Rider's Wallet).


Best reply ever! Hehe

[Mc TOOL]

Mr Ixion, I dunno if your for real. If you are then I would have to say that we have wildly different idea's and expectations from our motorcycling ( this , I think , is a good thing )
I would love to get 20'000 k's from a tyre , but only if I didnt have to sacrifice grip ( especially in the wet ) stabillity and just good cornering . My Diablo's are wearing well for me and stick well too. My motorcycles are largely hi performance toys now , not daily transport , so the economy of it all is not so important to me now . Years ago we had to commute from Invercargill to Heddon bush daily , and I did get pretty tight when coughing up for tyres and chains etc . Not so now ( shit ! the paso cost me more for tyres that petrol to ride ).
Same with the chains. I would not swap my open o'ring chain for any of the alternatives . How much would a suitable shaft drive add to the purchase price of an R1? 5 chains @ $200 = $1000 and would last me at least 100'000km's , bet you couldnt fit a shaft at the manufacturing stage, for $1000 , and no adjustable final drive ratio.
As motorcyclists we get shafted everywhere we go , acc levies , insurance , Tyres , spare parts & rego to start with , but when I throw the leg over and hit the button , none of it matters anymore , so forgive if I dont "rise up " . One thing that is apparent is that it aint so bad you have given up.......... me neither , Im gunna do this till I die

[Racin Jason]

Chains DO develop tight spots. Any of you ride dirt bikes?
Its usually because of lack of lube, and/or dirt/water/salt/god knows what entering past the orings and jamming them
Sometimes they get so tight you cant even move them without a vice and a hammer.
Some Kerosine or deisel will solve this. (CRC or solvents will swell the orings and casue stiff links, then your stuffed). Wash stiff links with a parts brush and blow it out several times with a dust gun. wash again and again while working the stiff links. Once its free, drown the whole chain in lube and refit.

Or buy a new chain.:bleh:

PS, if you ride hard/race, cam chains wear out almost as quick as a drive chain - then your cam timing goes out. especially off road. Metal sliding on metal wears.

[Ixion]

Mr Ixion, I dunno if your for real. If you are then I would have to say that we have wildly different idea's and expectations from our motorcycling ( this , I think , is a good thing )
I would love to get 20'000 k's from a tyre , but only if I didnt have to sacrifice grip ( especially in the wet ) stabillity and just good cornering .

I do, and I don't

My Diablo's are wearing well for me and stick well too. My motorcycles are largely hi performance toys now , not daily transport , so the economy of it all is not so important to me now .

Speak for yourself. Mine ain't toys.

Years ago we had to commute from Invercargill to Heddon bush daily , and I did get pretty tight when coughing up for tyres and chains etc . Not so now ( shit ! the paso cost me more for tyres that petrol to ride ).
Same with the chains. I would not swap my open o'ring chain for any of the alternatives . How much would a suitable shaft drive add to the purchase price of an R1? 5 chains @ $200 = $1000 and would last me at least 100'000km's , bet you couldnt fit a shaft at the manufacturing stage, for $1000 , and no adjustable final drive ratio.

I suspect you could, and what of the NEXT 100000, and the next and the next?

As motorcyclists we get shafted everywhere we go , acc levies , insurance , Tyres , spare parts & rego to start with , but when I throw the leg over and hit the button , none of it matters anymore , so forgive if I dont "rise up " . One thing that is apparent is that it aint so bad you have given up.......... me neither , Im gunna do this till I die

Ah but My BMW has shaft drive, and tyres last 30000 km.

[scumdog]

And just got a Loobman oiler which is currently partly fitted. Just doing some improvements of the design and in the meantime give the nitpickers (they know who they are....) something to point out at the Garston Rally. :spanking:

As-if Winston, as-if!!:whistle:






Oooh...I resemble that remark:crazy:

[tri boy]

The timing of this thread is perfect, as I'm in the process of evaluating the wear characteristics of a DID 530 VZ O-ring chain off my 95 Daytona, that has had 48000km wear on it.
I'll post pics of the various bits n bobs, and post a quick write up for those interested.
The opinions on wear characteristic's and my views on the use of lube etc are mine alone, and are open to being torn apart by the rabid dog that is KB X spurts. (remember though, I've replaced chains on everything from chainsaws to 80tonne forklifts, so I know a bit about them........i think).
Stay tuned.

[Mc TOOL]

Ah but My BMW has shaft drive, and tyres last 30000 km.

A BMW .I shoulda seen that comming , harley's dont have shafts :laugh::laugh:

[tri boy]

I'm the worlds worst typist, so don't expect me to prattle on about the various levels of wear etc, but hopefully the photo's will give some indication of what wears in a road bike chain (decent brand) over a highish mileage.

Pic 1. Shows the chain in reasonable appearance, with no obvious links that are damaged, sticking etc. The O(X)-rings are all intact and a casual glance might encourage people to refit this chain to a road bike with about 100hp for another 10-20 thou km.

Pic 2. But let the inspection begin.

Pic 3.Shows how the case hardening has been worn through by loss of lubrication, load, friction, etc. Remember, this is/was one of the best grades of chain available, and the case hardened metal is of high quality.
Discussions about this pic could go on for a while, and the best way to prevent this can be discussed over many dozen beers. (I know this, because I have tried:apint:). However, the real wear that concerns me with chains is in pic 4.

Pic 4. The wear in the bushing to the right is of most concern to me, because if the pin wears right through this, the chain is on a very fast slope to failure.

[tri boy]

This argument has been around for ever.
Some say "just spray WD40/CRC on the O-rings, as the internal grease does the rest".
I respectfully disagree with this argument, as there are other parts of the chain/sprockets that require lube regularly to help extend there life.

Even the manufacturers don't get it totally correct in my opinion.
They suggest to "only dribble lube onto the area where the O-rings live"
(Scott oilers etc are well known for this, but sprockets wear just as quickly with an oiler fitted.
My approach is to use a quality spray lube (not spray wax) after cleaning the chain, then going for a short (5 min) ride. (kerosine is still my cleaner of choice).
Spray not only the O-ring area, but also the roller sleeve area. (The bit that the sprocket transfer force through).
By doing this, you will drastically reduce sprocket wear, (because there is an oil buffer between the sprocket tooth, and the roller).

Pic 1. By lubing the roller on the chain, your sprocket can still be in reasonable condition after 45000+ km. (I can hear the howls of protest about using a new chain on an old sprocket, but really, would you throw this sprocket away?)

Pic 2. "It does get in"!
By soaking just one pin in a small amount of chain lube for ten mins, (as seen in the first series of pictures, the contrast of lube, as apposed to just CRC is quite evident.

Pic 3. All O-rings, though worn, were in excellent condition. DID know rubber!

Pic 4. Probably the best way to identify internal bush wear, is by closly inspecting the gap difference between outside plates. The right side has a wider gap, indicating both pin and bush wear.

[tri boy]

This is really brief, and most oldies/experienced riders will know all this, but maybe some newbies will gain something from it.

Pic 1. This chain wear tool is calibrated for heavy lift chain on machines like forklifts, so the scale isn't correct for bikes, but hopefully I can either knock one up for bikes, or purchase one. (note, the wear limit on lift chain is only 3%, due to the hazard of tonnes of weight dropping out of the sky onto someone).
Great tool for quick accurate wear measurement.

Pic 2. Concentric wear marks on hard steel caused by the X rings as the bush/pin wears. Rubber can do serious damage to steel.
This wear also lets moisture/dirt in, and the internal chain grease out.
Lube regularly to replace lost grease. MHO

[vifferman]

My approach is to use a quality spray lube (not spray wax) after cleaning the chain, then going for a short (5 min) ride.
Spray not only the O-ring area, but also the roller sleeve area. (The bit that the sprocket transfer force through).
By doing this, you will drastically reduce sprocket wear, (because there is an oil buffer between the sprocket tooth, and the roller).
I admire your logic, but in reality how much oil is there going to be left between roller and sprocket after a few revolutions of the sprocket?

The problem with most lubes is they are either not sticky enough to stay put, or if they are, they gather road spooge, and become grinding paste. I guess they only way around this is either minimal frequent lubing (with an automated luber being the ultimate example of this), or constant attention to the chain, especially after riding in dusty or wet conditions. As soon as possible after riding in the rain, the chain really needs a dousing in kerosene followed by an application of lube.

Personally, although I attend to my chain reasonably frequently, I regard it as a disposable item. Communtering in all weathers is particularly hard on chains, and I reckon I'd be lucky to get 10,000 km out of a chain. As soon as it develops some unevenness and the accompanying symphony of rhythmic Zizzing, out it goes. I've thought about an automated luber (I like gadgets!) but really can't be bothered.

[tri boy]

I admire your logic, but in reality how much oil is there going to be left between roller and sprocket after a few revolutions of the sprocket?

The problem with most lubes is they are either not sticky enough to stay put, or if they are, they gather road spooge, and become grinding paste.

The pic of the rear sprocket on the Daytona shows how a good quality lube will stick (pun) around, and continue oooze onto the tooth/roller.
Over cleaning the sprockets and chain is as bad as not cleaning, as it removes lube that still has a job to do. (like that build up of grease of grill, makes for tastier steaks:drool: MHO

[Motu]

How much would a suitable shaft drive add to the purchase price

There were at least a couple of bikes with a shaft drive option....or a version with shaft drive anyway.Some XJ750's....I know the cop ones had shaft,and some big suzuki things came with a shaft.Someone who loves to do nit picky stuff and find out what the price difference was for the shafty ones....I don't give a damn,but someone might.

[Bonez]

There were at least a couple of bikes with a shaft drive option....or a version with shaft drive anyway.Some XJ750's....I know the cop ones had shaftAll xj750s where shaft drive Motu. XS1100 had a chain option for racing i believe as did early MV Augustas.

[Mc TOOL]

vifferman & tri boy . Im with you guys on this chain thing in so much as I too think that it is an expendable item that does wear with normal use and that it requires reasonably constant maintainance. I have found the chain wax to be really good on the roadies. I try to direct the wax into the bushings , and just give the o,rings and plates a quick spray just to wet them , and its best left overnight . When I tried wax on my trailie ( kdx250 ) , ha , after a days ride the chain looked like a long skinny turd , which took a good soaking to get off. I use that cheap degreaser from S C auto's and a $2 paint brush , and dont go near it with a waterblaster ( good info pix too Tri boy )

[BMWST?]

chain do get tight spots,even litttle wee mtb chains,caused prolly by side loads from bad shifting.You can loosen tham again with the chain break tool.Some careful use of a hammer and punch,and or re rivet that tight link could fix it.I really want a shaft drive bike again,but if i end up with a chain I am gonna see if i can enclose ze chain
The yamaha xs 750,xs1100,xj650,Suzuki GS850G and GS1000 G has shafts,the suzukis and yammy 650 seemed not have any handling difficulties.