Bikers getting pulled over at Battle Hill & Featherston (15 February)

[unrealone]

Did a quick search but dont think I can find anyone else posting this.

Anyone else in Wellywood go for a pootle over this hill and get questioned by the lovely ACC? Thought they had setup a checkpoint actually.... but nope.

First one of these that I've come across. Mr Plod directing all bikers coming past Battle Hill into their little car park.

Went into the draw for $500 though and got some free chocolate (melted unfortunately), a pen, two Ride Forever DVDs, some statistics on the crashes on the hill and last of all a free Jan 09 KiwiRider mag. Edit: There was also a small booklet on "30 or over and returning to motorcycles?".

All in all, more than happy to pull over for a quick questionaire and the chance to win some $$.

[James Deuce]

So it was a compulsory stop?

I'd be willing to contest that in court. They have NO business segregating part of the community based on a mode of transport. They should have been in Whiteman's Valley demanding that the pushies stay on their side of the road.

[unrealone]

So it was a compulsory stop?

I'd be willing to contest that in court. They have NO business segregating part of the community based on a mode of transport. They should have been in Whiteman's Valley demanding that the pushies stay on their side of the road.

Not sure it was compulsory - didn't bother too much so I just went on in. I spose if you really were trying to get somewhere they wouldn't push it - who knows ;)

I was told the ACC questionaire was in light of the current fatalities on the hill.

[xxcbr69xx]

They were down in Featherston mid morning too.

[Number One]

Interested to know, what kind of questions did they ask?

[James Deuce]

I was told the ACC questionaire was in light of the current fatalities on the hill.

Given that I'm not dead I don't need to be stopped to discuss the point, using that particular logic.

Where I'm going is no one's business but my own. The NZ Police's ability to stop people going about their lawful business without proof of any illegality is a serious issue. I know the Police don't think anything of it, and I know the majority of the NZ Public sit back comfortably in the knowledge that "if you have done anything wrong you've nothing to worry about."

For two Government Depts to collude and bully people into providing information and data to be used against that group in future policy development is called corruption in other countries. Except in NZ where, "if you have done anything wrong you've nothing to worry about."

That approach has been used very successfully on the modern era. Develop propaganda against a certain "element" in society and then get that to "confess" in a way that supports the propaganda.

[dipshit]

Interested to know, what kind of questions did they ask?

Maybe questions like.... "Is your father also your uncle?"

[unrealone]

Interested to know, what kind of questions did they ask?

It was just a one pager with about maybe 5 questions such as:

What do you mostly consider on the road? Please tick 3: (Sorry this isnt word for word as Im having a Senior Moment despite being anything but senior :P)
- Loose Stock
- Weather Conditions
- Other road users
- Corners
- Hillcrests

etc etc Buggered that I cant remember much more.

It also asked how long I'd been riding for and what the worst thing was that I've seen a biker do on the road. It asked the first question (with the multi choice answers) twice but in two different scenarios I think.

I just happened to be recording this ride - its nothing interesting but I'm a tad bored right now so I put a little clip together.

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[carbonhed]

I'd just blipped past a car on the short straight heading south right before Battle Hill so I was pathetically grateful that the cop wasn't reaching for his ticket book when he stopped me... filled in the form like a lamb :Oops:

Got stopped in Featherston and then back on the Paekark Hill on the way home... I claim the record and want my prize :done:

[unrealone]

I'd just blipped past a car on the short straight heading south right before Battle Hill so I was pathetically grateful that the cop wasn't reaching for his ticket book when he stopped me... filled in the form like a lamb :Oops:

Got stopped in Featherston and then back on the Paekark Hill on the way home... I claim the record and want my prize :done:
Yea I continued on my way and came back again coming home - poor ol' fella didn't remember me and was trying to get me to do it again :P.

[Hitcher]

If any Wellington KBer wants a copy of the January issue of Kiwirider, I have two now, thanks to Mrs H and I getting pulled over at Featherston. The cops were pulling over all motorcycles entering that fair borough.

Mr Policeman asked to see my license. Woman in a flouro vest bowls up handing out goodies (including a questionnaire) and gives me a lecture about the dangers of riding on "their" (Wairarapa) roads. I told her that we spend more time riding on Wairarapa's roads than most Wairarapa riders and were well aware of the risks. Thank you for the chocolate bar.

[Madness]

I would have done a runner.

:lol:

[BMWST?]

I am confused.Was it Featherson or Battle Hill.Or both?

[unrealone]

I am confused.Was it Featherson or Battle Hill.Or both?

Both.


If any Wellington KBer wants a copy of the January issue of Kiwirider, I have two now, thanks to Mrs H and I getting pulled over at Featherston. The cops were pulling over all motorcycles entering that fair borough.

Mr Policeman asked to see my license. Woman in a flouro vest bowls up handing out goodies (including a questionnaire) and gives me a lecture about the dangers of riding on "their" (Wairarapa) roads. I told her that we spend more time riding on Wairarapa's roads than most Wairarapa riders and were well aware of the risks. Thank you for the chocolate bar.

The cop that waved me in just said, "ACC are doing a survey type thing, go grab a sausage and have a chat to the ACC lady - cheers!" Friendly indeed...

[Gubb]

Did the same thing on the Coro Loop mid-December.

Got stopped a total of 4 times in one day.

[cliffy]

You got a sausage at Paekak?!

No such offerings in Featherston...

[98tls]

I just happened to be recording this ride - its nothing interesting but I'm a tad bored right now so I put a little clip together.

Yep as Mr Deuce says sinister:shit:no doubt you didnt feel the pin stab that took a DNA sample or did they just ask you to leave a little of the sausage?

[Sharry]

Went into the draw for $500 though and got some free chocolate (melted unfortunately), a pen, two Ride Forever DVDs, some statistics on the crashes on the hill and last of all a free Jan 09 KiwiRider mag. Edit: There was also a small booklet on "30 or over and returning to motorcycles?".

FREE CHOCOLATE :shit:
If I leave now will I make it in time to get some :banana:

[KiwiKat]

If any Wellington KBer wants a copy of the January issue of Kiwirider, I have two now, thanks to Mrs H and I getting pulled over at Featherston. The cops were pulling over all motorcycles entering that fair borough.

Mr Policeman asked to see my license. Woman in a flouro vest bowls up handing out goodies (including a questionnaire) and gives me a lecture about the dangers of riding on "their" (Wairarapa) roads. I told her that we spend more time riding on Wairarapa's roads than most Wairarapa riders and were well aware of the risks. Thank you for the chocolate bar.

It would be interesting to query if this was a public relations exercise or an enforcement activity. The cop asking to see a license appears to be at odds with the project task of disseminating safety awareness information. Me thinks the copper was down on points. (and an egghead)

[Number One]

Maybe questions like.... "Is your father also your uncle?"

Thanks for you input that was well worth the server space :msn-wink:


It was just a one pager with about maybe 5 questions such as:

Cheers - wonder what the outcome of this will all be


FREE CHOCOLATE :shit:

DAMMIT! If I'd known there was free cocolate on offer I would've bumbled out that way too! Oh well there is always next weekend :shifty:

[98tls]

It would be interesting to query if this was a public relations exercise or an enforcement activity. The cop asking to see a license appears to be at odds with the project task of disseminating safety awareness information. Me thinks the copper was down on points. (and an egghead) Eh? hes a cop dealing with motor vehicle users why would he not ask to see a licence?i guess you could argue having a licence played some part in road saftey.

[James Deuce]

Cheers - wonder what the outcome of this will all be




Let me see: "40% of all bikers questioned in a recent ACC survey admitted to traveling so far over the speed limit on country roads that they had trouble avoiding stock being legally moved by farmers. A further 10% admitted actually either crashing into stock, or crashing their motorcycles avoiding stock."

I'm in the wrong job.

[Big Dave]

There are a few important issues at stake here.
Was it milk or dark chocolate?

[Hitcher]

Question 6 in the enclosed "survey" (fabulous prizes offered to the value of $500) asks this gem:

"What are the worst types of behaviours you have seen other motorcyclists doing?"

Such a question is almost worthy of its own thread...

[98tls]

Let me see: "40% of all bikers questioned in a recent ACC survey admitted to traveling so far over the speed limit on country roads that they had trouble avoiding stock being legally moved by farmers. A further 10% admitted actually either crashing into stock, or crashing their motorcycles avoiding stock."

I'm in the wrong job. There ya go then ACC needed be bothered wasting money on roadside surveys and instead lower staff numbers and inject the savings into building stock underpasses.,its a win win.:2thumbsup

[Hitcher]

Was it milk or dark chocolate?

A Whittakers milk chocolate finger.

[Big Dave]

A Whittakers milk chocolate finger.

For 'dis I gifs my life story.

[Number One]

Tere are a few important issues at stake here.
Was it milk or dark chocolate?

I reckon! I wouldn't don leathers on a hot day for Dark Chockie :lol:


Question 6 in the enclosed "survey" (fabulous prizes offered to the value of $500) asks this gem:

"What are the worst types of behaviours you have seen other motorcyclists doing?"

Such a question is almost worthy of its own thread...

OOO so they are giving us all rope so that we may hang each other <_<


A Whittakers milk chocolate finger.

OOOO now that would be ok but then they aren't that big. If you stopped on the way back did you get another? :laugh:

[James Deuce]

Question 6 in the enclosed "survey" (fabulous prizes offered to the value of $500) asks this gem:

"What are the worst types of behaviours you have seen other motorcyclists doing?"

Such a question is almost worthy of its own thread...

That's easy: Not stopping to help other motorcyclists who have found their motorcycle to be inoperable.

[Bonez]

That's easy: Not stopping to help other motorcyclists who have found their motorcycle to be inoperable.Surely they will more than likely have a cellphone.

[Number One]

Surely they will more than likely have a cellphone.
With coverage? Not always.....

[Hitcher]

Surely they will more than likely have a cellphone.

What happened to the much lauded "brotherhood of bikers"?

[98tls]

What happened to the much lauded "brotherhood of bikers"? To much waving induced arthritis so the brotherhood gave it all away.

[MD]

I feel so ripped off! I went over the hill real early (like 7.46.5am) and was heading back through Featherston to find about 20 riders coming from Wgtn direction stopped by about 8 Police vehicles. They were all from the Triumph Rally. Good stuff I though, book the lot of em, &%^$#ing Triumph owner/losers. They deserve to be pulled.

Now I learn it was a quiz with a sausage sizzle and chockies. I WANT MY SAUSAGE!

Man it was cold that early leaving home. I thought we were still in summer?

[cliffy]

nah, definitely ain't no sausages in featherston :crybaby:

[chazza404]

hmm what time were they at battle hill? i went through with a couple mates around 3 and back at 430 or so and didnt see much at battle hill

[RoadRacer04]

hmm what time were they at battle hill? i went through with a couple mates around 3 and back at 430 or so and didnt see much at battle hill

I went thru bout 1130 i think and got pulled over.... thought they were doing one of those 'boy racer fuck overs' (where they pull out the tape measure and look at cut springs etc) when i saw a whole bunch of bikers had been pulled ova.

Didnt get asked for licence or anything. Turned out to be a very harmless experience.

[Max Preload]

Turned out to be a very harmless experience.

How naive. Surely you realise that it'll never come out as anything other than a 'motorcycles should be subjected to higher ACC levies' supporting document.

[Usarka]

So it was a compulsory stop?


Last I heard it was compulsory to stop for a cop.

Ah well it gives me a good excuse next time a cop waves me down to stop, i kept going because thought it was another of those ACC campaigns and i've already answered the questions..........

What's next cops stopping holiday traffic so kids teeth can be checked by a dentist?

[roadracingoldfart]

Sounds to me like there will be two very diferant outcomes when the number crunching is completed on todays survey.

Wairarapa riders = Friendly answers , good attitude to the survey , all carrying a licence , all riding with lights on , all leaving the survey point with a new book and DVD and chocolate in thier tummies :rolleyes:

Battle Hill riders = Friendly answers , good attitude to the survey , all carrying a licence , all riding with lights on , all leaving the survey point with a new book and DVD and looking like fat bastards with chocolate :drool: and a sausage in thier tummies :rolleyes:

Now thats creative aye !!!

I cant see an issue with it unless its like the surveys they did several yrs ago at Paramata stopping every car , bike , truck in the rush hour on SH1.

[Skyryder]

If a cop wants to pull you over they can. Name adress etc.

As for any questioneer ya got a choice on this. Yes you answer it on the grounds that it might be usefull for motor cycle safety or you don't and if the cop starts giving you the run'a'round lay a complaint that you have complied with all aspects of the law and your delay was becasue the cop believed you had an attitude and would not ansere the questions as is your right.

Personaly I'd just go with the flow on this one and take a chance on scoring a free chocce. You might be able to use your co-operation with this when writing to have your next speeding ticket waived...........who knows.


Skyryder

[twotyred]

The cop that waved me in just said, "ACC are doing a survey type thing, go grab a sausage and have a chat to the ACC lady - cheers!"

:nono:thats when you can ride off,having learnt that it is not a random stop...

[cliffy]

If a cop wants to pull you over they can. Name adress etc.

As for any questioneer ya got a choice on this. Yes you answer it on the grounds that it might be usefull for motor cycle safety or you don't and if the cop starts giving you the run'a'round lay a complaint that you have complied with all aspects of the law and your delay was becasue the cop believed you had an attitude and would not ansere the questions as is your right.

Personaly I'd just go with the flow on this one and take a chance on scoring a free chocce. You might be able to use your co-operation with this when writing to have your next speeding ticket waived...........who knows.


Skyryder

and not to mention taking a chance on scoring a $500 bike shop voucher :niceone:

[ceebie13]

Question 6 in the enclosed "survey" (fabulous prizes offered to the value of $500) asks this gem:

"What are the worst types of behaviours you have seen other motorcyclists doing?"

Drinking coffee at Martinborough and talking bikes!

[Shadows]

I think they'd have been better off set up at the top of the Rimutakas or at a bike shop or something without the police involvement.

A commercial vehicle I could understand, but being singled out and pulled over by the police just for riding a private motorcycle isn't on. Fuck, one might be in a hurry to be somewhere.

Next will they be setting up check points specifically for Bongo Wagons and Homy Vans to check for overstayers ("papers, please!")?

Imagine the uproar then.

[SixPackBack]

Did anyone have the mental fortitude to question the appalling state of our roads and safety barriers etc?

[Ocean1]

Did anyone have the mental fortitude to question the appalling state of our roads and safety barriers etc?

Exactly who's questionnaire is this, dude?

There'll be no check-boxes useful for attributing blame for anything to anyone but the target group.

Now bend over.

[Madness]

With the inflated ACC levies we all pay each year, it's about time we started to see the odd free sausage.

Seriously though, Innit a good thing that ACC have gone to the effort to make contact with us, a group within society that's over-indexed in road carnage?. They even went to the trouble to do it on a Sunday, on roads that are heavily frequented by us, the target group. Heaven forbid, they might actually achieve some prevention out of it, if not just some better understanding.

Then again, we might all be fucked.

[unrealone]

With the inflated ACC levies we all pay each year, it's about time we started to see the odd free sausage.

Seriously though. Innit a good thing that ACC have gone to the effort to make contact with a group within society that is over-indexed in road injuries & fatalaties. They even went to the trouble to do it on a Sunday, on roads that are heavily frequented by the target group. Heaven forbid, they might actually achieve some prevention out of it, if not just some better understanding.

Then again, we might all be fucked.

Heh.. I asked the ACC lady I was talking to if I could lean on her car and she said: "Sure thing, you've probably paid for part of it at some point". I smiled after that - sarcastically...

[slimjim]

yes, wife and i also got asked to stop while heading towards Birchville... said what' the f-ck..! Acc..na f-ck off..ask the police what fcking right you got to stop motorcyclist for a questionary.. nope fired up bike a rode off..pricks and we wonder where our taxes are going

[sunhuntin]

this could all bite us on the ass. i remember acc sent me a questionaire last year some time [theres a thread on here somewhere] i refused to answer it cos i knew damn well that my solutions would be ignored. [it was bad/dangerous intersections and what could be done to lessen the danger etc]

wonder how much of our levies went to pay for this??

[roogazza]

I feel so ripped off! I went over the hill real early (like 7.46.5am) and was heading back through Featherston to find about 20 riders coming from Wgtn direction stopped by about 8 Police vehicles. They were all from the Triumph Rally. Good stuff I though, book the lot of em, &%^$#ing Triumph owner/losers. They deserve to be pulled.

Now I learn it was a quiz with a sausage sizzle and chockies. I WANT MY SAUSAGE!

Man it was cold that early leaving home. I thought we were still in summer?

Chilly, but great wasn't it MD ? I got pulled in on Piecock by two "fatherchristmas types" (fat with grey beards) going home.
Thought I was in for it when one walked round the rear of the bike , rubbed his hand knowingly over the rear tyre and said "that racing rubber" ? I said, yeah sticky stuff that wears out in 5 minutes ! ...... got my choccy and mag and was gone. G.

ps no problem being pulled or answering surveys, just hate tickets.

[cliffy]

Reading this thread i am surprised at the resentment felt to being pulled overby one or two.I feel that while understable,this attitude of "fight the man!!" has to be in part tempered with the understanding that while you(and i) often feel that the desicions made by those supposedly "in the know" ( police,roading,acc,etc) are often ill informed at best if we are not prepared to supply them with the "correct information" on which to base the desicions they are required to make when will the desicions be the right ones? and so perhaps a degree of fault must lie withourseves. So while ,yes the police were pulling over our section of the road users again:eek5: i was talking with one of the people involved afterwards and was told that there were no tickets issued in feathertson. :yes: anyway i had a positive experience so me and my kiwirider magazine are off are of to the big white comfy seat:moon:.

[Usarka]

No other organisation would be able to do a marketing campaign by using the police to stop the target market on public roads.

Every other company in NZ does marketing to some degree including getting feedback from customers & stakeholders, and they manage ok without resorting to police state tactics.

ACC kiss my arse.

[Flossi]

Usarka, I take offence to that. :bleh: I don't want to kiss your ass :spanking:

And it wasn't just ACC there, it was also local Road Safety Coordinators, out doing their job and endeavoring to keep our roads safer. (I was one of the 'ladies in orange hi-viz vests' ... but I didn't give any lectures :whistle: ... and I'm not from ACC :innocent: )

[Max Preload]

ACC kiss my arse.


Usarka, I take offence to that. :bleh: I don't want to kiss your ass :spanking:...
<snip>
I'm not from ACC :innocent: )

Given that, what was the point of that post?

What does a Road Safety Co-ordinator do, exactly, in order to co-ordinate road safety?

[Ixion]

..
And it wasn't just ACC there, it was also local Road Safety Coordinators, out doing their job and endeavoring to keep our roads safer. (I was one of the 'ladies in orange hi-viz vests' ... but I didn't give any lectures :whistle: ... and I'm not from ACC :innocent: )

Me too. Woz a Road Safety Coordinator , 'n can you do summit about bitumen blleding. thaz a lot more important road safety problem.


(OT. Can raod be added to the KB lexicon ?. Izza good werd)

[James Deuce]

Reading this thread i am surprised at the resentment felt to being pulled overby one or two.I feel that while understable,this attitude of "fight the man!!" has to be in part tempered with the understanding that while you(and i) often feel that the desicions made by those supposedly "in the know" ( police,roading,acc,etc) are often ill informed at best if we are not prepared to supply them with the "correct information" on which to base the desicions they are required to make when will the desicions be the right ones? and so perhaps a degree of fault must lie withourseves. So while ,yes the police were pulling over our section of the road users again:eek5: i was talking with one of the people involved afterwards and was told that there were no tickets issued in feathertson. :yes: anyway i had a positive experience so me and my kiwirider magazine are off are of to the big white comfy seat:moon:.

You have to be smoking something if you think any of the information collected will be interpreted and presented in anything other than negative terms in regard to motorcycling.

Question 6 in particular is an obvious stitch up.

[Ixion]

Q 6. "Worst type of behaviour you have seen motorcyclists doing ?"

Answer has to be "trolling for chocolate " I reckon. You know who you are.

[Ixion]

Seriously, but, the problem with sumfink like Q6 is that it will attract all the holier-than-thou double ended dildos who will have a double ended orgasm writing down all the naughty things they reckon (other) bikers do. Which ACC will then use is a "even motorcyclists agree that xxx behaviour should be stamped out". Even though xxx behaviour may not be a big deal to any save the aforesaid DEDs. (DED . A twuntish equivalent to the BAB)

[Usarka]

Usarka, I take offence to that. :bleh: I don't want to kiss your ass :spanking:

And it wasn't just ACC there, it was also local Road Safety Coordinators, out doing their job and endeavoring to keep our roads safer. (I was one of the 'ladies in orange hi-viz vests' ... but I didn't give any lectures :whistle: ... and I'm not from ACC :innocent: )

A spanking is acceptable too :innocent:

Of course you're not ACC, you sound like you have a personality...... :jerry:

[cliffy]

You have to be smoking something if you think any of the information collected will be interpreted and presented in anything other than negative terms in regard to motorcycling.

Question 6 in particular is an obvious stitch up.

if I had been smoking something I'd be as paranoid as everyone else, worried about getting shafted by 'the man'

[Flossi]

Given that, what was the point of that post?

What does a Road Safety Co-ordinator do, exactly, in order to co-ordinate road safety?

:blink: the point of my post was that everyone else here just assumed the 'other' party was ACC.. and therefore the 'kiss my ass' comment which was aimed at 'them' was kind of aimed at me too? :msn-wink:
My point I guess was just to let you know that there were other real people there too, gosh even ones who like riding bikes! (well, I only get to ride pillion at this stage.... one day I might learn to do more than ride a TS185 up and down Foxton Beach)

Anyhoo, where was I? ... a Road Safety Coordinator attempts to educate the community about road safety issues and tries to find ways to reduce the road toll. Well, that's a part of my job anyway.

The purpose of yesterday's exercise was NOT to find an excuse to raise ACC levies for bikers (my hubby would NOT be impressed with that either! :shit: ) None of it was meant to be a negative experience, but how else are we meant to get info out to you guys? Can you tell me a better way? (and ya did get free choccy :msn-wink: )

[snuffles]

So it was a compulsory stop?

I'd be willing to contest that in court. They have NO business segregating part of the community based on a mode of transport. They should have been in Whiteman's Valley demanding that the pushies stay on their side of the road.

Isuppose you could call being motrist

[Flossi]

A spanking is acceptable too :innocent:

Of course you're not ACC, you sound like you have a personality...... :jerry:

I try :cool:

[twotyred]

Seriously though, Innit a good thing that ACC have gone to the effort to make contact with us, a group within society that's over-indexed in road carnage?. They even went to the trouble to do it on a Sunday, on roads that are heavily frequented by us, the target group.


by forcing you to stop by misusing the police (who should be out busting criminals)and then placating the little kids with their 'boys-toys' by giving them a little chocolate bar?...

[Flossi]

wow, are you guys always this negative?! :blink:

you do realise that police have different roles within the force?
Like, Road Police are meant to be doing exactly that, policing the roads... yep, that does sometimes include pulling people over and checking their licences :cool:

no one was being forced to stop after their licences were checked, and I heard no complaints either, as far as I know everyone was perfectly okay about it and quite happy to head on up the road afterwards to go have a coffee and read their newly aqcuired mag...

[Fatjim]

but how else are we meant to get info out to you guys? Can you tell me a better way? (and ya did get free choccy :msn-wink: )

Lass, when they avoid the obvious like cheese cutters, gravel and desiel spills then how are they gonna get the subtle stuff. This IS a waste of time. Just like the cock of a cop this morning who told me to stop riding on the hard shoulder, when within 100 metres of me returning to the flow I had to take evasive action on a partially aware lane changer. I wonder if I started riding on the hard shoulder as soon as I was out of site of the copper?


Lets face it, the people in charge are beaurocrats, and are more intereted in looking like they care than actually caring. They really have very little clue about what apart from riders themselves are killing riders.


wow, are you guys always this negative?!

Because people are free to do stupid shit on the road everyday and get away with it, unless your in a purple car with a 4 inch exhaust pipe. I'd farking trust a boyracer more than hilda in her volva or mohamid in his taxi, or Trev in his truck, or Rangi in his bus anyday. Talk about the police having it arse about backwards.

[RT527]

So it was a compulsory stop?

I'd be willing to contest that in court. They have NO business segregating part of the community based on a mode of transport. They should have been in Whiteman's Valley demanding that the pushies stay on their side of the road.

happens to us truckies too, they are not compulsory stops you dont have to stop , but I would advise the officer that you are not stopping and would like to carry on as you are correct they have no rights to detain you, but you still must stop if he directs you to .if you just take off then they will assume you are guilty of something, like drug running.


I dont stop for the acc stops , I pull over but when I find out what it is depending on time frame I give it a miss.(or if I have a perishable load on )

I have a mate thats cviu and he will often text me in advance that the acc thing is happening at Stanly st in Auckland and Ill often make the time to go down then and do the form fill out thing, and also get to catch up with my mate.

[James Deuce]

if I had been smoking something I'd be as paranoid as everyone else, worried about getting shafted by 'the man'
It's not paranoia. These two groups have repeatedly performed this particular process over the last 20 years and it invariably results in a huge amount of self-generated bad publicity for motorcycling.

These two groups have a very real desire to reduce motorcycle accidents by any means. Banning them outright is very close to the top of the list and admissions of guilt delivered via a "survey" are only providing ammunition.

If they're from the Government, and they say they're here to help you, you're already doomed.

[James Deuce]

wow, are you guys always this negative?! :blink:

you do realise that police have different roles within the force?
Like, Road Police are meant to be doing exactly that, policing the roads... yep, that does sometimes include pulling people over and checking their licences :cool:

no one was being forced to stop after their licences were checked, and I heard no complaints either, as far as I know everyone was perfectly okay about it and quite happy to head on up the road afterwards to go have a coffee and read their newly aqcuired mag...


It comes with age and the repeated inability of the Government to do anything other than make it too expensive to continue doing the things you enjoy. Transparent attempts to gather statistics from people who will sign over their right to ride for a magazine and a chocolate bar and then construct survey results that make it look like we all admit to using the road as a race track and raping babies for our Summer job have happened before.

I'm not willing to swap (eventually) my bike and bike license for a magazine and a chocolate bar.

License checks are bollocks. You only get pulled if the Police person expects to be able to issue a ticket. If "they" were interested in reducing road fatalities then "they" would be looking at initiatives beyond crushing cars and making people walk home from the middle of nowhere. The big stick approach has failed.

Last year's fatality stats were all about the price of petrol. People didn't suddenly gain better skills, better awareness, and a more courteous approach to driving. Some of us simply stopped driving or riding anywhere near as much as we did in the previous 12 months. Milton Friedman saved more lives in NZ last year than any Minister of Transport did.

Btw, cheeky tag people, BRONZ have been talking about Government Strategy papers that call for the outright banning of motorcycles for years. Very few motorcyclists listen, mostly due to the good old Kiwi "it can't happen here" attitude.

[Flossi]

:oi-grr: was the raping babies comment really necessary?

[Ixion]

..
Anyhoo, where was I? ... a Road Safety Coordinator attempts to educate the community about road safety issues and tries to find ways to reduce the road toll. Well, that's a part of my job anyway.

..


What about educating TPTB about road safety issues. We can give you a long list. Addressing any one of them would do more for motorcycle road safety than any roadside stopping exercise. A lot of the people here have been riding motorcycles for 20 30 40 50 years. And are still alive and in one piece. Do you not suppose they have learnt a thing or two about how to avoid being part of the road toll? And the sort of exercise this thread is about isn't part of that corpus of knowledge.

BTW, the similar thing in the Coromandel recently was called Operation Upright, if anyone is interested. And Inspector Dunbier's description of it was "not entirely an enforcement exercise".

[Ocean1]

wow, are you guys always this negative?! :blink:


I'm afraid, m'dear, that history would indicate that the above grumpy old bastards are correct.

Personally I don't blame the roads, or the police. Even the occasional homicidally careless driving is statistically guaranteed, (although you'd halve the damage by limiting access to the roads to those who actually know some of the rules and how to actually operate a vehicle).

I blame the whole ACC thing. Who on earth thought that when government decided to pay for our collective cock-ups that they wouldn't eventually try to legislate to manage and control the higher cost groups?

[Ivan]

Lol the inbred remarks are not needed haha
Us Featherstonians are good kind hearted people

[AllanB]

Sounds like a nice bit of PR to me.

Its not unusual to have a motorcycle only 'pull-over' in the summer around Taitapu (just out of Christchurch en-route to the Akaroa GP).

Usually you get waved over and told 'just a documentation check sir' followed by WOF, Rego and license check.

Personally I don't give a hoot. I'd rather they stopped me there than fating along at 120.

I'd prefer if they handed out chocolate as well.

IMHO it's time some of the loonies on bikes had a look at their riding on public roads, but I'll not mention that, as I'd prefer to avoid the 'Honda Homo' and 'Katman lover' comments that would follow.

[James Deuce]

:oi-grr: was the raping babies comment really necessary?
Was the condescending comment about there being a number of different roles in the Police force really necessary?

[Big Dave]

As long as it's not dark chocolate I'll be fine.

However, you have to feel sorry for the cops that have pulled me over for a chat - by the time I finish questioning them some have been ready to retire. :no:

[James Deuce]

Sounds like a nice bit of PR to me.

Its not unusual to have a motorcycle only 'pull-over' in the summer around Taitapu (just out of Christchurch en-route to the Akaroa GP).

Usually you get waved over and told 'just a documentation check sir' followed by WOF, Rego and license check.

Personally I don't give a hoot. I'd rather they stopped me there than fating along at 120.

I'd prefer if they handed out chocolate as well.

IMHO it's time some of the loonies on bikes had a look at their riding on public roads, but I'll not mention that, as I'd prefer to avoid the 'Honda Homo' and 'Katman lover' comments that would follow.
It's not the loonies they want. They want "sensible" riders to write lots of bad stuff about other motorcyclists to justify either making motorcycling impractically expensive through ACC levies and compulsory insurance, or an excuse to ban motorcycling altogether.

Surveys are never just "good PR". They will always throw up publicised results that make even people like DEDs look like near-suicidal adrenalin junkies. Always remember that statistics are merely fuel for plausible liars.

Motorcycling serves no economic role in NZ. It isn't cheap transport when running costs versus purchase price are amortized, and particularly when you aren't paying enough to cover the average yearly cost of motorcycling accidents to ACC.

[Ocean1]

Its not unusual to have a motorcycle only 'pull-over' in the summer around Taitapu (just out of Christchurch en-route to the Akaroa GP).

Was the subject of a wee discussion today about past Paeroa events also...


you have to feel sorry for the cops that have pulled me over for a chat - by the time I finish questioning them some have been ready to retire. :no:

... and I'll be preparing a brief speach on the ride up next Saturday. :soon:

[Okey Dokey]

Gotta agree with previous posts here; as soon as I saw ACC was involved I thought no bloody way would I help. The 'survey' sounds like it was leading, and ultimately will bite bikers on the bum.

As already said, when government says they are here to help you, then you know you are in trouble. Especially ACC.

[Flossi]

What about educating TPTB about road safety issues. We can give you a long list. Addressing any one of them would do more for motorcycle road safety than any roadside stopping exercise. A lot of the people here have been riding motorcycles for 20 30 40 50 years. And are still alive and in one piece. Do you not suppose they have learnt a thing or two about how to avoid being part of the road toll? And the sort of exercise this thread is about isn't part of that corpus of knowledge.

BTW, the similar thing in the Coromandel recently was called Operation Upright, if anyone is interested. And Inspector Dunbier's description of it was "not entirely an enforcement exercise".

:o what's TPTB?

[Okey Dokey]

BTW, as far as useless 'pullover" situations go, I once sat in a queue, and was eventually processed, at a police checkpoint that was for checking for use of SEATBELTS while on my motorbike. None of the cops involved tried to wave me on...I guess not a really big deal, but still...

At least the copper I spoke to thought it was amusing!

[Ixion]

The Powers That Be.

The people who put up barriers to slice motorcyclists in half.

And build roads that melt into lethal oil puddles in summer

And hand any fool who can grunt twice a licence.

And then allow that fool behind the wheel of a 2.5 litre turbocharged 300bhp Blingmobile that he has no idea whatsoever about controlling.

That write laws about keeping left - then don't enforce them. That erect traffic lights, then condone people going through the red lights.

Those Powers That Be.

[Flossi]

ahh i see, thanks for that :)

[dipshit]

The people who put up barriers to slice motorcyclists in half.

And build roads that melt into lethal oil puddles in summer

And hand any fool who can grunt twice a licence.

And then allow that fool behind the wheel of a 2.5 litre turbocharged 300bhp Blingmobile that he has no idea whatsoever about controlling.

Actually with a questionnaire like...

******************

What do you mostly consider on the road? Please tick 3:
- Loose Stock
- Weather Conditions
- Other road users
- Corners
- Hillcrests

*************************

... they are probably trying to find out if most motorcyclists go around blaming everything on everybody else instead of been more concerned with the most likely thing that will kill them....

Failing to take a corner.

[fireliv]

I think they'd have been better off set up at the top of the Rimutakas or at a bike shop or something without the police involvement.

A commercial vehicle I could understand, but being singled out and pulled over by the police just for riding a private motorcycle isn't on. Fuck, one might be in a hurry to be somewhere.

Next will they be setting up check points specifically for Bongo Wagons and Homy Vans to check for overstayers ("papers, please!")?

Imagine the uproar then.

What are you on about! ACC and the police do target other groups. They do child restraints (havent heard anyone complaining that they are targetting kids) cyclists, and recently ACC did a stint on the Interislander ferrys talking with truck drivers.

We all no that motorcyclist statistics are high, I hear enough bitching about it in these forums, but when the goverment/acc start trying to address the problem of shit riders out there killing people, everyone starts jumping up and down about being targeted.

And yes they do have overstayer round up too so everyone gets "targeted" now and then

[Flossi]

.....
We all no that motorcyclist statistics are high, I hear enough bitching about it in these forums, but when the goverment/acc start trying to address the problem of shit riders out there killing people, everyone starts jumping up and down about being targeted.....

:hug: thank you!
we're not saying that all riders are shit, I'm sure there are a lot of fantastic riders out there (mostly on KB right?! :msn-wink: )
but since i haven't yet figured out how to spot the one bad rider out of the group of 10 or 20 good ones, we kind of have to 'target' everyone.

by all means, give me other suggestions with 'better' ways to do it, I'm all ears :cool:

[dipshit]

by all means, give me other suggestions with 'better' ways to do it, I'm all ears

I think that little questionnaire will be very telling. :msn-wink:

[Ocean1]

by all means, give me other suggestions with 'better' ways to do it, I'm all ears :cool:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=59539

[Flossi]

I think that little questionnaire will be very telling. :msn-wink:

well, i read 15 of the replies today and they were all perfectly fine and normal (surprisingly, I thought more riders would rate themselves as 'Excellent'! :msn-wink: )


Ah well, we tried....

[Flossi]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=59539

thanks for that link. I've just discovered that entire section, will have to read through it another day, bed is calling and I need my beauty sleep :innocent:

Since we don't have any WRB's here in the Wairarapa there's not a lot 'I' can do about them. Any budget we have for work we do is only for our region, but I will still have a good read through and discuss it with others :cool:

[Hitcher]

by all means, give me other suggestions with 'better' ways to do it, I'm all ears

Targeting "bad" riders is pointless. An assumption is that by giving them propaganda and a chocolate bar, they'll read that and be moved to change whatever it is they do that's supposed to be evil.

The "logic" of the ACC argument is that it's bad riders who fuck up. That is just not true. I know a couple of very good riders who have had accidents, caused by a moment's inattention or a bad decision or whatever, and who are now dead. The "horror" stats that were handed out on Sunday had only three deaths recorded since 2003 in the Wairarapa. I know of a couple more that weren't recorded, but that is beside the point. The way these stats were presented also implied that these accidents and mishaps were caused by "foreigners".

This view was reinforced by a mildly irritating comment from the well intentioned lady who I chatted with who said that the Wairarapa's roads are "theirs". Mrs H and I and many other "Wellington" riders I know would cover more km in the Wairarapa each year than many bikers who live there. "Ownership" of the roads does not imply inside knowledge, concern for the well-being of fellow riders or "special" treatment. Indeed as taxpayers and regional ratepayers, we're all in this together.

Bullshit nonsense from collectors of "statistics" and professional "analysts" would endeavour to have people believe that SH53 is the most dangerous road in the region. People like that cannot and should not be taken seriously.

Most motorcyclists are aware of the risks of motorcycling. That is the coin we toss every time we leave home and it's very much why we ride. Safety nanas just don't get that. Bless them.

[GrayWolf]

:hug: thank you!
we're not saying that all riders are shit, I'm sure there are a lot of fantastic riders out there (mostly on KB right?! :msn-wink: )
but since i haven't yet figured out how to spot the one bad rider out of the group of 10 or 20 good ones, we kind of have to 'target' everyone.

by all means, give me other suggestions with 'better' ways to do it, I'm all ears :cool:

The simple answer why we are so 'anti' Flossi, is Polititians. I'll explain.
In the early 80's in the UK the Transport Minister, one peter Bottomley, decided from reading 'facts, survey results and scientific research that he would introduce COMPULSORY leg protectors on ALL Motorcycles. The 'Survey' was the number of people in Orthopedic wards with leg injuries from bike accidents added to the TRRL 'research' performed using ONLY BMW's on skid frames with the cylinders removed being impacted (T boned by) on Morris Marina cars. The research 'proved' that leg protectors produced a significant reduction in leg injuries (impact).
FACT! they didnt use any 4 cyl inline bikes or other makes/stlyes of cars, like 'wedge shaped', or low sports cars. The Medical Board came out in arguement that the leg protectors would significantly raise the incident of knee injuries by the lower leg being 'trapped' as the body was thrown forwards, causing the knee to bend opposite to its intended range of movement. Bottomley had facts and STATISTICS on his side and would not back down, just like a certain 'antismacking bill' Instigator. It took a HUGE effort from Medical, Lobby Group (MAG) and the Federation of European Motorcyclists to get the bill squashed. it was Bottomlies way to 'make his name in politics'. He lost his portfolio over it. So your innocent survey, at some time is more than likely to provide some Political wanker the ammuntion they can glean from the Stats to force a nice compulsory safety law on those poor wretched MINORITY motorcyclists.
AND there's the rub, we ARE a Minority and therfore an easy target. The increased ACC levies were placed on us, why? because statistics prove that although the main cause of injury is 'didnt see you mate' WE MOTORCYCLISTS are the highest cost motoring wise to ACC, so we got stung in the pocket. Can you imagine the reaction if they had doubled the levy on car drivers instead??

[James Deuce]

:hug: thank you!
we're not saying that all riders are shit, I'm sure there are a lot of fantastic riders out there (mostly on KB right?! :msn-wink: )
but since i haven't yet figured out how to spot the one bad rider out of the group of 10 or 20 good ones, we kind of have to 'target' everyone.

by all means, give me other suggestions with 'better' ways to do it, I'm all ears :cool:
Teach people how to drive/ride, how to share, how to use their vehicle courteously. Stop lecturing them about that and teach them from the inception of their driving/riding career. It is the only way to improve the current situation, especially as it is a given that road conditions and vehicle density are only ever going to get worse.

Stop teaching people how to pass a license test and how to fill in an insurance claim form, and how to dodge the eye test.

[James Deuce]

AND there's the rub, we ARE a Minority and therfore an easy target. The increased ACC levies were placed on us, why? because statistics prove that although the main cause of injury is 'didnt see you mate' WE MOTORCYCLISTS are the highest cost motoring wise to ACC, so we got stung in the pocket. Can you imagine the reaction if they had doubled the levy on car drivers instead??

Don't use that argument with ACC or its staff. They'll start charging us what we should be paying, which is roughly $500 a year each.

The "didn't see you thing" is a myth, in regard to it being the biggest cause of motorcycle accidents. It's prevalent at intersections and people exiting driveways. Mostly we fall off by ourselves. Dropping the bike avoiding an accident is still falling off by yourself.

[James Deuce]

well, i read 15 of the replies today and they were all perfectly fine and normal (surprisingly, I thought more riders would rate themselves as 'Excellent'! :msn-wink: )


Ah well, we tried....

How can motorcyclists possibly in all honesty rate themselves as excellent when practically every group ride one goes on, someone falls off?

I'm pleased to hear that the group who filled in the form haven't succumbed to hubris.

I ride every day, but I'd rate myself below average. What I know about riding a bike and motorcycle vehicle dynamics can be written on a napkin. If I print carefully and write using a large font size.

[GrayWolf]

The "didn't see you thing" is a myth, in regard to it being the biggest cause of motorcycle accidents. It's prevalent at intersections and people exiting driveways. Mostly we fall off by ourselves. Dropping the bike avoiding an accident is still falling off by yourself.[I[/I]


Thats fair comment, the point I was making in Vechile to vechile (M/c Vs Car)
how frequently the cause is didnt see you by the car driver, Vs didnt see you by the M/cyclist?
And I'd agree to compulsory insurance...... its one way the jap import $10,000HSEVORD FPSSRX turbo nutter bastards would be taken out of the hands of youth......... Market pricing!

[Max Preload]

And I'd agree to compulsory insurance...... its one way the jap import $10,000HSEVORD FPSSRX turbo nutter bastards would be taken out of the hands of youth......... Market pricing!

That's a ridiculous argument. You think they pay cash for their "jap import $10,000HSEVORD FPSSRX turbo"? No. They HP them, so they're already insured.

[trustme]

Flossi, It is not just the poor standard of riding that is the problem, it is the abysmal decision making that goes on.
The first I constantly see with guys struggling to handle bikes at low speeds, many can't even complete a full lock feet up U turn. I remember one of the motorcycle cop instructors telling me of a course he ran for a club , the 2 instructors were alarmed at how poor some of the guys were. Guys who rode 2 up could not complete the course 1 up in safety so how safe was their passenger when they are on the open road.
The second & I think potentially greater problem is we make extremely poor decisions that mean we ride well beyond our skill level & safety Witness :-
Sunday. 6 riders following a car at legal speed on the open road [SH16] as we approach a corner an idjut passes us at high speed , by the time he gets to the car it is in the corner , he can't slow down, you see him flinch for a second then over the yellow lines, wrong side of the road passing the car in mid corner. I could see there were no cars coming but I certainly could not be sure about another bike, I doubt the Idjut had time to look ahead , an accident waiting to happen , caused by piss poor decision making.
To the guys who snivel about being stopped at the check point , the underlying message is if we don't sort ourselves out , the authorities will , then you will really have something to snivel about

[Usarka]

Anyhoo, where was I? ... a Road Safety Coordinator attempts to educate the community about road safety issues and tries to find ways to reduce the road toll. Well, that's a part of my job anyway.



What are your views (and ACC's if you know them) on the following:


Advanced road skills training (riders and drivers)
Tougher license tests
The psychology behind risk taking and the hypothesis that as more and more risks are mitigated by legislation that humans subconciously seek alternate outlets for risk taking.


Thanks :sunny:

[sunhuntin]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=59539

exactly, ocean. how many times have we made our concerns clear, even taking it right to transits doorstep, only to be told what they think we want to hear?
i find it interesting that cheesecutters werent listed on that section of the questionaire. those would be one of my top concerns when riding a road that has them.

[Deano]

by all means, give me other suggestions with 'better' ways to do it, I'm all ears :cool:

Well 'they' tried the Road Safe seminars a few years back. Despite cliaming to be an open discussion, the focus (read agenda) was on speed, youth and alcohol.

Funny how concerns raised by motorcyclists at the seminars (poor diesel/effluent containment and if I recall correctly driver training) did not make it into the Ministers final report to ACC.

And you wonder why the cynism ?

As Road Safety Co-ordinator - do you liaise with your roading division to see that road surfaces (steel utility covers) on the road are made safer ?

It's odd that some manhole covers get a layer of asphalt on them, improving grip phenomonally, while other 2m x 1m steel plates get left as they are, creating a serious slip hazard when wet.

Gravel left from road works, and unmarked.....the list goes on.

[trustme]

I don't get some of you guys , you moan about the road conditions , the cheese cutters & all the hazards out there , you want the gummint to eliminate these risks to our safety , you want them to take action & when they do & they get it wrong as they usually do ,you still snivel.
Be as cynical as you like but when you read a thread like the Harley idjut overtaking in Mt Vic Tunnel, isn't it really up to us to sort our shit out.
Knock off the cry babies & be responsible for your own riding. Every one needs to take responsibility for their own actions & stop blaming everyone else & our safety record will improve. The blame game is something the govt plays far better than we do.

[Hitcher]

Be as cynical as you like but when you read a thread like the Harley idjut overtaking in Mt Vic Tunnel, isn't it really up to us to sort our shit out.

These are two completely different issues.

Firstly, we can't sort out the idiots amongst us. Where they break the law or endanger the lives of others, we should take some action. But idiots in any community (ours being the community of motorcyclists) will, like death and taxes, be something of an inevitability.

Secondly, there are things that authorities can do to make motorcycling safer. These include non-slip road markings, abrasive steel covers, sign-posted roadworks, manadatory underpasses for dairy cattle, enforced regulations about spill-free diesel containers on moving vehicles, driver training, quality barriers, etc.

It is this second category where real progress can be made, and would be a preferable area of focus for the do-gooders amongst us, rather than them flagging down their colleagues and giving them a chocolate bar and a Map Of Death.

[trustme]

So the authorities are responible for making motorcycling safer, but we are not responsible for the idjuts amongst us . BUCK PASSER, the 2 issues are intertwined, trying to separate them is a cop out.
Its our poor skills which most definately are our problem that on so many occasions leave us incapable of handling the many hazards out there , Oops sorry, I forgot this is NZ the no fault, no blame, no responsibility society, cept for the Gummint of course , after all we can't ever blame ourselves can we

[Hitcher]

after all we can't ever blame ourselves can we

Some of us are more than happy to accept responsibility for our own actions. We'd like a bit of help, thanks, from authorities to better manage things outside of our control.

It sounds to me that you're happy to opt out by pointing the finger.

[trustme]

You may well take responsibilty for your actions, I am more than happy to be accountable for mine. There are a hell of a lot out there in all walks of life not just motorcycling who are not interested in being responsible or accountable for their actions . It is that malaise that is the enemy.
I do not opt out , finger pointing ?? , if we don't address the issue it will never change.
Sorry got to work now.

[Fatjim]

Phew, he's gone. Now we can get back to making sense.

[swbarnett]

There are a hell of a lot out there in all walks of life not just motorcycling who are not interested in being responsible or accountable for their actions.
"I am not my brother's keeper"

We're just asking TPTB to take responsibility for THEIR actions. The ones that produce dodgy roads at best and at worst down right dangerous ones

[sunhuntin]

It's odd that some manhole covers get a layer of asphalt on them, improving grip phenomonally, while other 2m x 1m steel plates get left as they are, creating a serious slip hazard when wet.

Gravel left from road works, and unmarked.....the list goes on.

i find it odd that road people find it impossible to keep manholes and other steel covers and the like flush with the road surface. :doh:
theres one down the road from mums thats a good 10 cms or so below the road level. furthur down are two manholes that are about even with the road surface. and in a road around the corner from me, theres no less than 15 manhole covers in just shy of a k, and every single one of them is at a different level.
the one down from mums thats below has been spray painted and marked for "raise" which in theory is good, providing they only raise it to make it flush. but the other two, which are almost level, have also been marked with raise. seems a waste of time if they are taking a drop which jars the bike and making it a jump that still jars the bike.

they also went and stuck 6 manhole covers on the 80k motorway bridge [3 per lane] and each cover is smack in the middle of the lane. they are pretty level, but still a pain, specially in the wet.

[Patrick]

Both. The cop that waved me in just said, "ACC are doing a survey type thing, go grab a sausage and have a chat to the ACC lady - cheers!" Friendly indeed...

Bastard... what was he thinking???


Given that I'm not dead I don't need to be stopped to discuss the point, using that particular logic.

Thats funny... there are dead bikers who all probably thought the same thing... Go figure....


yes, wife and i also got asked to stop while heading towards Birchville... said what' the f-ck..! Acc..na f-ck off..ask the police what fcking right you got to stop motorcyclist for a questionary.. nope fired up bike a rode off..pricks and we wonder where our taxes are going

So.... trying to find out why motorcyclists are wiping themselves off the face of the earth is not a good thing...??? Totally agree, the questions left a little to be desired, but it is a beginning... isn't it?

And no, I have not been involved in any of these check points.... I just fail to see what some are so worked up about.


It's not paranoia. These two groups have repeatedly performed this particular process over the last 20 years and it invariably results in a huge amount of self-generated bad publicity for motorcycling.

These two groups have a very real desire to reduce motorcycle accidents by any means. Banning them outright is very close to the top of the list and admissions of guilt delivered via a "survey" are only providing ammunition.

If they're from the Government, and they say they're here to help you, you're already doomed.

The sky is falling....

I bet too many motorcyclists generate thier own bad publicity......


I'm not willing to swap (eventually) my bike and bike license for a magazine and a chocolate bar.

OK then... how about TWO chokkie bars and a mag???

Last year's fatality stats were all about the price of petrol. People didn't suddenly gain better skills, better awareness, and a more courteous approach to driving. Some of us simply stopped driving or riding anywhere near as much as we did in the previous 12 months.

Good call. Something I believe in too... sadly....

Btw, cheeky tag people, BRONZ have been talking about Government Strategy papers that call for the outright banning of motorcycles for years. Very few motorcyclists listen, mostly due to the good old Kiwi "it can't happen here" attitude.

For years... but motorcycling is growing in popularity, with the rising costs of fuel.... It can't happen here.....


Actually with a questionnaire like...

******************

What do you mostly consider on the road? Please tick 3:
- Loose Stock
- Weather Conditions
- Other road users
- Corners
- Hillcrests

*************************

... they are probably trying to find out if most motorcyclists go around blaming everything on everybody else instead of been more concerned with the most likely thing that will kill them....

Failing to take a corner.

I would have ticked all 5.


What are you on about! ACC and the police do target other groups. They do child restraints (havent heard anyone complaining that they are targetting kids) cyclists, and recently ACC did a stint on the Interislander ferrys talking with truck drivers.

We all no that motorcyclist statistics are high, I hear enough bitching about it in these forums, but when the goverment/acc start trying to address the problem of shit riders out there killing people, everyone starts jumping up and down about being targeted.

And yes they do have overstayer round up too so everyone gets "targeted" now and then

It's better to have them wiping themselves out, it seems, in some quarters......


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=59539

I know of one KBer who had this happen. One is one too many, but I do not recall any others. Anyone got actual figures on how many have been sliced in two by these barriers?

[Katman]

as I'd prefer to avoid the 'Katman lover' comments that would follow.

Believe me, there's worse things you could be called.

I know - I've been called them all.

:msn-wink:

[Fatjim]

I know of one KBer who had this happen. One is one too many, but I do not recall any others. Anyone got actual figures on how many have been sliced in two by these barriers?

How many do you know who've hit the WRB and have not severed parts of their body. My understanding is that if you hit them at any reasonable speed, i.e. a speed where you might actualy want a barrier there you are likely to die or lose a few kilos in a moment.

[James Deuce]

Bastard... what was he thinking???



Thats funny... there are dead bikers who all probably thought the same thing... Go figure....



So.... trying to find out why motorcyclists are wiping themselves off the face of the earth is not a good thing...??? Totally agree, the questions left a little to be desired, but it is a beginning... isn't it?

And no, I have not been involved in any of these check points.... I just fail to see what some are so worked up about.



The sky is falling....

I bet too many motorcyclists generate thier own bad publicity......



For years... but motorcycling is growing in popularity, with the rising costs of fuel.... It can't happen here.....



I would have ticked all 5.



It's better to have them wiping themselves out, it seems, in some quarters......



I know of one KBer who had this happen. One is one too many, but I do not recall any others. Anyone got actual figures on how many have been sliced in two by these barriers?

I'm not disagreeing with any of your points, however I am very tired of interested Govt parties putting a negative spin on information provided by motorcyclists.

Except for the one about motorcycle as transport. Oh and the choccies. Not while I'm riding. Makes me go mental. Speeding and stuff.

[Patrick]

How many do you know who've hit the WRB and have not severed parts of their body. My understanding is that if you hit them at any reasonable speed, i.e. a speed where you might actualy want a barrier there you are likely to die or lose a few kilos in a moment.

Don't have em down here, thank gawd.... But just curious as to how many killed, how many lost kilos, whatever. Is it many? One is one too many.


I'm not disagreeing with any of your points, however I am very tired of interested Govt parties putting a negative spin on information provided by motorcyclists.

Except for the one about motorcycle as transport. Oh and the choccies. Not while I'm riding. Makes me go mental. Speeding and stuff.

Perhaps the negative spin is from your side of the fence...this time???

[James Deuce]

Don't have em down here, thank gawd.... But just curious as to how many killed, how many lost kilos, whatever. Is it many? One is one too many.



Perhaps the negative spin is from your side of the fence...this time???

I've paticipated in the information gathering process around Motorcycle Deaths & Injuries in many different ways over the last 20 years. Every time I've been left gob smacked at the level Government officials will stoop to to push their own agenda. "We really want your input, so we can shaft you properly", is the normal MO.

This survey is no different given the questions. The results will be collated and a damning picture presented. We're the last group of motorists who aren't tourists, willing to use our vehicles to change our vista. The Sheeple simply don't go for "a drive" any more. The problem is, the weekend rider is causing a mounting pile of hospital and funeral parlour bills as well as affecting the economy due to the demographic that is participating in the weekend ride scene.

19 year old falls off a bike and breaks a leg. Big deal. 54 year old CEO with his 55 year old Finance Company director wife on the back falls off and ACC has a collossal wage bill to pay during the rehabilitation process, many times that of the 19 year old.

How do we get them to stop? "I know, get them to dob each other in! We'll call it a survey and give them chocolate."

I'm not criticising the Police, but I don't believe there is a resource within the scope of the NZ Police force that has anything like the time and money to make an impact on rider fatality and injury stats. The UK Police (depending on area, funding, will, etc) run riding courses. That would be a superb exercise and would demonstrate real Government will to help fix some of the attitudes to riding a bike on the road that we are currently suffering from. A big stick and self incrimination isn't ever going to do that. Hutt City Council ran a refresher course for motorcyclists about 4 years ago and the Police Sergeant doing the training was superb. It was a day well spent.

This exercise is about reducing a growing drain on the "Taxpayer", and ACC have a mandate to do that in a number of ways. They've never been about accident prevention in regard to Motorcycles. They'd rather we weren't allowed to ride them at all. Farmers, commuters, racers, weekend warriors, scooterists - we're all the same to them. We're on the wrong side of the ledger.

[Patrick]

.... "I know, get them to dob each other in! We'll call it a survey and give them chocolate."

This is the part I don't follow. The question was, "what did you see other bikers do that was stupid shite..." not "who, what was the rego, when where...."

I see it as a way of knowing of the stupid shite that stupid "sheeple" do, that can be used to educate others, on how not to ride like a dick, perhaps...... or is this wishful thinking by people who actually might give a stuff about stopping stupid people doing stupid stuff...???

[Flossi]

some great replies since I was on here last night, unfortunately I don't have time to acknowledge or respond to any this evening

I'll try to get back tomorrow and comment, etc, if necessary (there are one or two things I'd like to comment on :msn-wink: )

Oh, and another of my tasks for this year to do with motorcycles is to investigate the need for motorcycle handling courses, etc. Bearing in mind that my area is the Wairarapa only, so if you're over the other side of the hill and feel the need for something over there you'd have to talk to your own Road Safety Coordinator :) (however, I could pass on the message to her!)
I have spoken to local motorbike shops and they think there'd be more of a need locally for guys who don't have their licences, but have perhaps been riding for many years, to get on with getting their licence. The only problem is not wanting to be stuck with the 250 capacity limit which I can totally understand, oh and also having to go through the whole rigmarole of the learners/restricted stuff. I'm just not sure if there's any way around any of that. :no:
But I'm more than happy to look into some handling courses over here, we could even help fund them!

Back tomorrow! :sunny:

[Madness]

But I'm more than happy to look into some handling courses over here, we could even help fund them!

I think you mean we will help fund them. Nice to know there's still money left in the kitty after all the sausages and chocolates.

[Flossi]

1. we didn't supply anyone with sausages...
2. fine then, pay for your own course, don't go asking for motorcycle handling courses then saying you don't want help paying for them

and I meant WE will help fund them. I pay taxes too...

[Fatjim]

Oh, and another of my tasks for this year to do with motorcycles is to investigate the need for motorcycle handling courses, etc.

Yes!........ No need for a survey now. Oh and you could investigate

Gravel on sealed roads (no good)
Desiel spill from trucks (no good at all)
People crossing the centre line on narrow roads (Bloody hell!)
Tar snakes (as bad as gravel)


I don't think we need a surevy for any of them really, nor do they need investigating. Just fast forward straight to the fixing thank you.

[Madness]

Hey, I think the funding of handling courses from public money is great. Just don't try & make it sound like you (ACC) are paying for sausages out of your own hard-earned rego money.

Everybody, do the Hutt Valley course, they will have better smallgoods by the looks of it.

[Patrick]

Yes!........ No need for a survey now. Oh and you could investigate

Gravel on sealed roads (no good)
Desiel spill from trucks (no good at all)
People crossing the centre line on narrow roads (Bloody hell!)
Tar snakes (as bad as gravel)


I don't think we need a surevy for any of them really, nor do they need investigating. Just fast forward straight to the fixing thank you.

+1...

And the cleaning up of the loose marbles after roadworks have been completed... a sweeper would sort it out for everyone, not just bikes... instead of the current "the cars will sweep it all away... eventually..." approach.

[Madness]

And the cleaning up of the loose marbles after roadworks have been completed... a sweeper would sort it out for everyone, not just bikes... instead of the current "the cars will sweep it all away... eventually..." approach.

But then the fookers couldn't justify leaving the 30k signs up for up to a month after the works have finished. Another ACC conspiracy??

[Patrick]

But then the fookers couldn't justify leaving the 30k signs up for up to a month after the works have finished. Another ACC conspiracy??

Thats part of the "leave it to the cars to sweep it all away.... eventually..." policy....

[Ocean1]

+1...

And the cleaning up of the loose marbles after roadworks have been completed... a sweeper would sort it out for everyone, not just bikes... instead of the current "the cars will sweep it all away... eventually..." approach.

I remember talking to the south island commissioner of works, (the old MOW used to be run as almost seperate NI/SI entities way back then) during a visit up norf. He was appaled at the NI practice of letting general traffic complete the compacting job. SOP in the south was to use FUCKING BIG ROLLERS until the job was ready to sweep, no way in hell was traffic allowed on the road until then.

I know the asphalt compounds are different now, though, it takes more time for the light ends to evaporate. The road outside here, for example, was still curing 3 weeks after being laid, you could see the solvents still washing out into the gutters in last weeks rain. Was finally swept properly just yesterday.

[Flossi]

Hey, I think the funding of handling courses from public money is great. Just don't try & make it sound like you (ACC) are paying for sausages out of your own hard-earned rego money.

Everybody, do the Hutt Valley course, they will have better smallgoods by the looks of it.

again, I'm NOT from ACC....
we didn't DO sausages in Featherston
Wairarapa is not the Hutt Valley

just to correct a few minor errors in the thought processes there :)

[Madness]

again, I'm NOT from ACC....
we didn't DO sausages in Featherston
Wairarapa is not the Hutt Valley

just to correct a few minor errors in the thought processes there :)

Sorry, it's all the drugs and the heat exhaustion from riding all day.

Can I get a ACC rego rebate if I didn't get any sausages?.

[trustme]

again, I'm NOT from ACC....
we didn't DO sausages in Featherston
Wairarapa is not the Hutt Valley

just to correct a few minor errors in the thought processes there :)

Thought processes . You give them too much credit.

[Ixion]

Sorry, it's all the drugs and the heat exhaustion from riding all day.

Can I get a ACC rego rebate if I didn't get any sausages?.

Well, if I bypass featherston , where's the nearest place I *can* get a sausage?

And what sort of sausages are they ? I'm very particular about my sausages ?

And are your sausages prepared in accordance with the Food Good Manufacturing Code ? Do you have HACCP certification for your susage operation?

Food poisoning is a major problem in NZ. Are we confident that ACC are aware of the dangers of what they do? Perhaps we should get the police to assist us in persuading the Road Safety Coordinators to fill out a Food Safety questionaire ?

[Usarka]

Thought processes . You give them too much credit.

Yeah, I hate them. They are stupid.

[Ixion]

Well, do *you* do sausages ? I mean, there's an offer of sausages on the table from Flossie (quality TBA). You've got to at least meet that if you're going to stay in the game.

[Flossi]

sheesh, you guys just have sausages on the brain :bleh::laugh:

[Ixion]

Bikers have a keen and instinctive appreciation of the important things in a situation.

Questionaires come and questionaires go, but a sausage is always a sausage. Until I eat it of course.

If you *really* want to get biker particpation, you need to offer pies.

The floor is open for suggestions as to what flavour of pies Flossie is going to organise.

[Hitcher]

As the late, great Freddie Mercury once so eloquently warned: "Spare him his life from these warm sausages."

Easy come, easy go...

[Usarka]

You have a point ixion. If i cop pulled me over and offered me a pie I would re-consider my immediate anti-establishment response and consider his offer with interest.

[Madness]

Settle down boy. Ya wouldn't go taking a mince & cheese from a ploddy now, would ya?. Bacon & Egg though, that'd be considerable enuff.

I think we need a poll.

[Flossi]

hmm, pies you say?

so, a poll... or perhaps a survey?! :msn-wink:

[James Deuce]

This is the part I don't follow. The question was, "what did you see other bikers do that was stupid shite..." not "who, what was the rego, when where...."

I see it as a way of knowing of the stupid shite that stupid "sheeple" do, that can be used to educate others, on how not to ride like a dick, perhaps...... or is this wishful thinking by people who actually might give a stuff about stopping stupid people doing stupid stuff...???

You're thinking too literally.

"90% of respondents expressed concern with the way their fellow motorcyclists behaved on the road and often felt threatened by the actions of other motorcyclists."

I have on occasion struck motorcyclists who appear to have a great terror of a gentle bend with no obstructed view and have proceeded to overtake them at the next available opportunity, only to be accosted at the next stop and harangued about my impatience and "Illegal overtaking". I'm not a habitual speeder nor do I view a blind corner or short straight as an overtaking challenge. But the people who will find my mild mannered riding offensive are the sort of people who are happy to fill survey responses full of negative viewpoints of perfectly safe riding. The only things I object strongly to are overtaking on the left and crossing the centre line. There are some out there who view not sitting perfectly upright like you have a iron poker joining rectum to nostril as a mortal offense. I don't believe analysis of the survey responses will begin account for the vast disparity in perceptions of safe riding amongst motorcyclists, let alone what most other road users think of us.

You can't educate people. People have to chose to be educated. Lecturing people about the things they are doing incorrectly is a sure way to close ears and minds.

[Katman]

You can't educate people. People have to chose to be educated.

We can but try to make everyday a school day.



:msn-wink:

[James Deuce]

I have spoken to local motorbike shops and they think there'd be more of a need locally for guys who don't have their licences, but have perhaps been riding for many years, to get on with getting their licence. The only problem is not wanting to be stuck with the 250 capacity limit which I can totally understand, oh and also having to go through the whole rigmarole of the learners/restricted stuff. I'm just not sure if there's any way around any of that. :no:


They should be made to demonstrate basic competence in front of a qualified instructor. If they demonstrate good handling skills and road sense, then they should be handed a full license.

If they can't, for instance perform a feet up U-Turn or are too scared to use the front brake, then they should be handed an L plate and directed through the whole learning process. I think you'd be genuinely surprised at how many people struggle with basic bike handling skills despite riding for decades. At the other extreme there are newbies who positively shine on a bike. Age and experience count for something but motorcycling demands a little more effort than passive experiential training.

[Flossi]

oh, by the way, if anyone from Sunday doesn't want the DVD's you got, apparently there are plenty of others around these parts who do ...
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=18118&page=6

perhaps you might like to pass them on and make another KB'ers day? :)

[Ixion]

T..or are too scared to use the front brake, then they should be handed an L plate and directed through the whole learning process...

'S a funny thing that.

back in the day, we all knew that y' never used the front brake (assuming you had one).

Cos, (a) it did nothing, and (b) if it did do anything it would throw you over the handlebars and then flip the bike on top of you. Everyone knew this. Car drivers too, everyone knew someone who had a car with new fangled front wheel brakes , that had flipped it completely over.

As the years went by , of course, I forgot this wisdom, and on a modern bike will instinctively reach instantly for the front anchor in an emergency.

But, on Sunday I was pushing some scrap iron around, when a plonker in a plonker mover pulled out directly in front of me.

My foot went to the rear brake instantly which did its brakey best , but it was clear it would not be enough. "Oh no, this is going to be ugly", I thought.

And then the spidey jumped up and bit me on the nose "Front brake, twit"

"Whaa front brake ? Nah y can't , oh , yeah I got one of them". And a wee squeeze and Brummagen's best 8 inch TLS wonder slowed me down like the proverbial giant hand, well clear of Mr Plonker.

On a modern bike I would have even thought about not using it. But, back on a beast of my youth (well, my middle age anyway), old instinctive habits returned.

Which is a very long winded way of saying that the difference for a motorcyclist between surviving and crashing isn't a matter of surveys, or training, it's a matter of muscle memory.

The muscles must do the right thing immediately and instinctively. There's no time to wait round while the brain sorts things out. Brains are not much use when it comes to survival, they lack about 20 million years of evolution.

[James Deuce]

Which is a very long winded way of saying that the difference for a motorcyclist between surviving and crashing isn't a matter of surveys, or training, it's a matter of muscle memory.



You develop muscle memory through repetitive practice, often referred to as training.

Where's my sausage?

[Ixion]

Which is however, a very different and much longer process than the "training" referred to by the ACC. More commonly called, experience. Not acquired by half a day riding round a car aprk, and a few hours in a class room.

And the sausage offer is closed, so yesterday. Flossie is offering pies now instead. Flavours still to be decided. Keep up, will y'


EDIT: And, in some cases, untraining may be more important. Those memories last a long time.

[Flossi]

no sausages now Deuce, it's pies :msn-wink:

[MaxB]

no sausages now Deuce, it's pies :msn-wink:

Someone mention pies? Pepper streak for me!

One thing that irks me about ACC is the inclusion of unregistered off road bike incidents in our rego. We are supposed to have gone through a process that says we are licensed to ride and our bikes are fit for the road which costs time and $$$. Off road riders pay squat towards their eventual care.

I don't see quad bikes and go kart accidents included in the car rego charges FFS.

[Fatjim]

I suggest pies to, because the chances of the plod getting their face out of in time to flag me down is essentially nil. When he runs out of pies, feed the fucker donuts will you.

[MarkH]

Question 6 in the enclosed "survey" (fabulous prizes offered to the value of $500) asks this gem:

"What are the worst types of behaviours you have seen other motorcyclists doing?"

Such a question is almost worthy of its own thread...

Best answer - none, all motorcyclists are well behaved and safe riders.


That's easy: Not stopping to help other motorcyclists who have found their motorcycle to be inoperable.

Or: failing to wave when someone waves to them.


The cop that waved me in just said, "ACC are doing a survey type thing, go grab a sausage and have a chat to the ACC lady - cheers!"

:nono:thats when you can ride off,having learnt that it is not a random stop...

What the hell? You can't ride off - free sausage!

Does anyone know where they will be during the next weekend or two? I would prefer the option of a free sausage (did they have bread & sauce?). I would like to be stopped several times so that I can have many sausages and get down as many witty replies to their questions as possible.

[MarkH]

sheesh, you guys just have sausages on the brain :bleh::laugh:

You miss the major problem - the lack of sausages in the tummy!


no sausages now Deuce, it's pies :msn-wink:

Wait, what? There are pies? What sort? Is there sauce? Are any surveys going to happen near Auckland with either sausages or pies? This is crucial stuff - I need answers!

[MarkH]

Yes!........ No need for a survey now. Oh and you could investigate

Gravel on sealed roads (no good)
Desiel spill from trucks (no good at all)
People crossing the centre line on narrow roads (Bloody hell!)
Tar snakes (as bad as gravel)


I don't think we need a surevy for any of them really, nor do they need investigating. Just fast forward straight to the fixing thank you.

I find myself agreeing 100% with this post!


And the cleaning up of the loose marbles after roadworks have been completed... a sweeper would sort it out for everyone, not just bikes... instead of the current "the cars will sweep it all away... eventually..." approach.

And with this!

I am happy to do what I can to improve ME (RRRS course, thinking hard about what I do and what I don't do, getting out there and practising, etc) but I dread coming around a corner and finding myself unexpectedly on loose gravel or diesel or effluent or whatever. I would have thought it was obvious that fixing potentially life threatening hazards on the road would be a good thing to do, without even needing to survey people first.


What do you mostly consider on the road? Please tick 3:
- Loose Stock
- Weather Conditions
- Other road users
- Corners
- Hillcrests

What does this mean "tick 3" - are people supposed to decide on 2 that they are not too worried about? I would tick all 5 and then write in another dozen!

[sunhuntin]

Yes!........ No need for a survey now. Oh and you could investigate

Gravel on sealed roads (no good)
Desiel spill from trucks (no good at all)
People crossing the centre line on narrow roads (Bloody hell!)
Tar snakes (as bad as gravel)


I don't think we need a surevy for any of them really, nor do they need investigating. Just fast forward straight to the fixing thank you.

agreed fully.

one corner that i used to like has been ruined by so many vehicles [from family cars to huge arse trucks, often with trailers] straying over the white line. and thats from both directions! the one time i got to the corner the same time as a truck, i was wishing the footpath had a ramp. lol. rather freaky looking up and seeing this huge truck leaning over you. but, the corner isnt even that bloody narrow!

have attached a pic of the corner.

actually, i dont mind tar snakes or other ridges in the road, provided they are going the same way i am. they are handy to stick the front wheel in so you go all over the road if you are being tail gated. makes them back off pretty fast!

[Patrick]

You're thinking too literally.

"90% of respondents expressed concern with the way their fellow motorcyclists behaved on the road and often felt threatened by the actions of other motorcyclists."

I have on occasion struck motorcyclists who appear to have a great terror of a gentle bend with no obstructed view and have proceeded to overtake them at the next available opportunity, only to be accosted at the next stop and harangued about my impatience and "Illegal overtaking". I'm not a habitual speeder nor do I view a blind corner or short straight as an overtaking challenge. But the people who will find my mild mannered riding offensive are the sort of people who are happy to fill survey responses full of negative viewpoints of perfectly safe riding. The only things I object strongly to are overtaking on the left and crossing the centre line. There are some out there who view not sitting perfectly upright like you have a iron poker joining rectum to nostril as a mortal offense. I don't believe analysis of the survey responses will begin account for the vast disparity in perceptions of safe riding amongst motorcyclists, let alone what most other road users think of us.

You can't educate people. People have to chose to be educated. Lecturing people about the things they are doing incorrectly is a sure way to close ears and minds.

But in this PC day, maybe... just maybe... they are wanting to help?

Quite right about the educating/unable to educate thing. Thats why there is instant fines.


They should be made to demonstrate basic competence in front of a qualified instructor. If they demonstrate good handling skills and road sense, then they should be handed a full license.

If they can't, for instance perform a feet up U-Turn or are too scared to use the front brake, then they should be handed an L plate and directed through the whole learning process. I think you'd be genuinely surprised at how many people struggle with basic bike handling skills despite riding for decades. At the other extreme there are newbies who positively shine on a bike. Age and experience count for something but motorcycling demands a little more effort than passive experiential training.

How long ago did you go for your bike licence? This is what they do. You have to show basic handling skills BEFORE you can go for the scratch and win learners. In the restricted AND full, you must do a U turn, no feet down. The street they use here is a small side street, very narrow, close to but not fully hard lock, but close enough......

[Usarka]

Does anyone ever fail a bike (or driving for that matter) test in NZ?

I've only known of one person and she was an unco-ordinated rubber spastic and I'd be afraid to have a pet chimpanzee in the same hemisphere as her on a bike....

[James Deuce]

How long ago did you go for your bike licence? This is what they do. You have to show basic handling skills BEFORE you can go for the scratch and win learners. In the restricted AND full, you must do a U turn, no feet down. The street they use here is a small side street, very narrow, close to but not fully hard lock, but close enough......

Flossi was talking about unlicensed Wairarapa based riders trying to avoid going through the license process from Learners through Restricted and on to Full because they'd never bothered to do it as naughty gang members in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

I was suggesting a common sense approach to getting these guys a license. If they can ride well enough to pass the 6F license test and pass the theory then why not? If they can't then they need to start from the beginning.

[James Deuce]

Does anyone ever fail a bike (or driving for that matter) test in NZ?

I've only know of one person and she was an unco-ordinated rubber spastic and I'd be afraid to have a pet chimpanzee in the same hemisphere as her on a bike....

Yes. My 20 year old 2nd cousin failed inside the first 2 minutes of her practical driving test, just today.

There's a certain KB member who had 6 attempts to get his full car license.

[crazefox]

Fuck the cunts givethem the one finger wave and ride off

[MarkH]

There's a certain KB member who had 6 attempts to get his full car license.

Difficulties cornering? Did it take him/her a while to stop countersteering?

[Fatjim]

Fuck the cunts givethem the one finger wave and ride off

At last. Sanity has prevailed.

:lol:

[James Deuce]

Difficulties cornering? Did it take him/her a while to stop countersteering?
This was prior to going for a bike license. Ahem.

[MarkH]

This was prior to going for a bike license. Ahem.

Really? 6 attempts seems like a lot. I have only ever sat a test for a license 3 times - and I have 4 classes of license to show for it.

[dipshit]

What does this mean "tick 3" - are people supposed to decide on 2 that they are not too worried about? I would tick all 5 and then write in another dozen!

But what 3 do you see as the largest threat?

I would tick corners, hillcrests, weather conditions, with other road users and then loose stock being the least threat.

Seeing how many like to blame everything on everybody else though... I could imagine lots of riders ticking perhaps other road users, loose stock, weather conditions as perceived greater dangers.

[James Deuce]

Really? 6 attempts seems like a lot. I have only ever sat a test for a license 3 times - and I have 4 classes of license to show for it.
Let's just say that attitude had a bit to do with the testing officer's decision each time.

[Renegade]

Next will they be setting up check points specifically for Bongo Wagons and Homy Vans to check for overstayers ("papers, please!")?

Imagine the uproar then.

shit thats a mint idea, and bring back the dawn raids too!!

[Renegade]

personally i think the stopping and feeding of riders in exchange for a survey and general chat about your biking is a great road safety idea.

i know they do it for truckies all the time, gives them a 30min required break and a feed, especially considering that the taupo area has one of the highest fatallity rates in the country and that 25% of fatal crashes in taupo area involve trucks, not to mention the 5 fatal bike crashes in the area in the last six months that i can recall (none involved trucks).

if a little research into what concerns riders on the road, leads to a change in other drivers/riders behaviour resulting in safer roads and less rider fatallitys then im all for it. :cold:

[SARGE]

That's easy: Not stopping to help other motorcyclists who have found their motorcycle to be inoperable.

and not waving...

[ManDownUnder]

Surely they will more than likely have a cellphone.

So they could ring for a lift... and wait however long while it gets there... or you could pull over and offer 'em one... while they have all their gear handy...

[Fatjim]

personally i think the stopping and feeding of riders in exchange for a survey and general chat about your biking is a great road safety idea.

i know they do it for truckies all the time, gives them a 30min required break and a feed, especially considering that the taupo area has one of the highest fatallity rates in the country and that 25% of fatal crashes in taupo area involve trucks, not to mention the 5 fatal bike crashes in the area in the last six months that i can recall (none involved trucks).



Not very renegadie of you. Maybe you should change your name to sensible_old_man or something.

Anyway, why would I need a 30 min break. I've just got my tyres nice and hot from coming over the hill. I ate my pie 10 minutes ago and I'm looking forward to topping out on the east-west road. And I'm certainly no where near toopaw or what ever its called now.

I feel like I just wasted my breath.

[Patrick]

Flossi was talking about unlicensed Wairarapa based riders trying to avoid going through the license process from Learners through Restricted and on to Full because they'd never bothered to do it as naughty gang members in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

I was suggesting a common sense approach to getting these guys a license. If they can ride well enough to pass the 6F license test and pass the theory then why not? If they can't then they need to start from the beginning.

Pfft. Lawbreakers....

If it is good enough for me, an upholder of the law for years now... it sure as hell is good enough for them to pull finger and get the learners, then the restricted, then the full bike licence, just like I had to do. But hey, if there was a shortcut, I'd have been in....

[Ixion]

..
if a little research into what concerns riders on the road, leads to a change in other drivers/riders behaviour resulting in safer roads and less rider fatallitys then im all for it. :cold:

You do not understand the way that Government departments work

In the rest of the world, you would be correct. There, a survey is to gather information. The information gathered is analysed, and from that conclusions are reached. Those are then tested , and if they hold up, chnages are implemented

But in government departments it works the other way round. The changes to be made are decided on, the conclusions necessary to justify those changes , to the Minister or the public, are worked out, and then the survey is used to gather data which, after any necessary adjustments , will appear to justify the conclusions.

Here, the ACC are not gathering data to try to make things safer. They already have some scheme in mind, you may be sure of that. And the only purpose the survey will have is to allow them to say, as the binary gentleman has indicated, "95% of motorcyclists themselves agree that [sportsbikes] are dangerous and unsafe, and should be [banned]" (replace [sportsbikes] and [banned] with older riders, speed limited or whatever it is they are plotting)

[sunhuntin]

just an addition to my comment on loose seal.

theres a corner on a dead end road that has been badly potholed for months now [i posted about it a while back. has a stock feed factory and has many trucks and trailers coming and going all day, every day] i go up there this morning on the bike. i come around a corner, and see a 30k sign. finally, they are resealing. it wasnt until i was on top of the corner that i noticed all the loose seal, right through the corner. no warning signs at all on that side of the works. however, coming out again, there is a loose seal sign. wrong place considering youve already ridden over it to get into the road in the first place.

do they have to have loose seal signs alongside the 30k and other road working signs? would have been nice to have a bit more warning. :eek5:

[riffer]

You do not understand the way that Government departments work

In the rest of the world, you would be correct. There, a survey is to gather information. The information gathered is analysed, and from that conclusions are reached. Those are then tested , and if they hold up, chnages are implemented

But in government departments it works the other way round. The changes to be made are decided on, the conclusions necessary to justify those changes , to the Minister or the public, are worked out, and then the survey is used to gather data which, after any necessary adjustments , will appear to justify the conclusions.

Here, the ACC are not gathering data to try to make things safer. They already have some scheme in mind, you may be sure of that. And the only purpose the survey will have is to allow them to say, as the binary gentleman has indicated, "95% of motorcyclists themselves agree that [sportsbikes] are dangerous and unsafe, and should be [banned]" (replace [sportsbikes] and [banned] with older riders, speed limited or whatever it is they are plotting)

Yeah Right. Name one country in the world where motorcycling has been banned.

[riffer]

do they have to have loose seal signs alongside the 30k and other road working signs? would have been nice to have a bit more warning. :eek5:


This is New Zealand. You should be anticipating it.

[Ixion]

Yeah Right. Name one country in the world where motorcycling has been banned.

I think that i could, if I went and looked, name you quite a lot where sportsbikes, or bikes larger than a certain capacity have been banned.

I can say from my own knowledge that in China motorcycles are not allowed on the motorways.

[riffer]

I think that i could, if I went and looked, name you quite a lot where sportsbikes, or bikes larger than a certain capacity have been banned.

I can say from my own knowledge that in China motorcycles are not allowed on the motorways.

Probably because they can't reach the speed limit, seeing as how they've got twenty-five chinamen and thirty-dozen chickens strapped to a Cub50 clone. :oi-grr:

I'm not talking about ccs though - name one country that's blanket banned bikes.

And another thing - they'd be more likely to ban fast cars first.

[Madness]

How many other countries have banned smacking your own kids?.

I'd be suprised if our Gubbermint banned bikes, they'd more likely tax bike ownership beyond the affordability of most first.

[Ixion]

Yeah Right. Name one country in the world where motorcycling has been banned.

Try http://www.wayodd.com/philippine-lawmakers-want-motorcycles-banned-on-main-roads-highways/v/8708/


Motorcycles are banned completely in Beirut and Ghangzhou.

Pillions are banned in Pakistan

[Ixion]

Probably because they can't reach the speed limit, seeing as how they've got twenty-five chinamen and thirty-dozen chickens strapped to a Cub50 clone. :oi-grr:

I'm not talking about ccs though - name one country that's blanket banned bikes.

And another thing - they'd be more likely to ban fast cars first.

You seem to be setting up a strawman. My original post specifically mentioned [sportsbikes] as a possible subject for intervention. That would be perfectly possible. "From X date no motorcycle of > Y cc, or Z bhp may be imported". Done.

You can still have a motorcycle. Or a scooter. Up to 400cc maybe.

[Big Dave]

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[riffer]

You seem to be setting up a strawman. My original post specifically mentioned [sportsbikes] as a possible subject for intervention. That would be perfectly possible. "From X date no motorcycle of > Y cc, or Z bhp may be imported". Done.

You can still have a motorcycle. Or a scooter. Up to 400cc maybe.

Could be setting up a strawman. Hadn't thought of it that way. However, I don't see a National government working in quite the same way as our previous lot. Banning things ain't their style.

[Ocean1]

But in government departments it works the other way round. The changes to be made are decided on, the conclusions necessary to justify those changes , to the Minister or the public, are worked out, and then the survey is used to gather data which, after any necessary adjustments , will appear to justify the conclusions.

So you did read Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency.

[James Deuce]

Yeah Right. Name one country in the world where motorcycling has been banned.
France are working on it. Bikes over 100hp can't be sold locally and anything imported over 100hp is subject to a 15% tax on the purchase price.

Great Britain are build a tracking network designed to specifically track individual motorcycles and are installing the PoC on the Cat and Fiddle run. Traffic safety experts and senior Police have labelled all motorcycles toys and don't believe they are a valid transport option on Britain's congested roads.

[James Deuce]

Pfft. Lawbreakers....

If it is good enough for me, an upholder of the law for years now... it sure as hell is good enough for them to pull finger and get the learners, then the restricted, then the full bike licence, just like I had to do. But hey, if there was a shortcut, I'd have been in....

Speaking of shortcuts, CBTA was designed for that and it was a brilliant idea. It stimulated the economy by providing scope for training organisations who could provide employment and got "lawbreakers' through to a full license in a short period of time with a good attitude to riding on the road and an enhanced set of riding skills.

[Usarka]

I did a direct access course in the uk, and am a great fan of such ideas. One full week of training on a larger bike with an instructor continuously critiquing (?) your riding. The carrot is a full licence at the end.

You don't finish with many bad habits (if the instructor is any good).

[Hitcher]

Speaking of shortcuts, CBTA was designed for that and it was a brilliant idea.

Mrs H and I are CBTA graduates. The bureaucrats lost their nerve with this scheme in the face of complaints about bike shops stitching up deals with CBTA trainers. The solution would have been to register more trainers, but bureaucrats aren't that clever, particularly when such a scheme also runs counter to their philosophy of not supporting driver/rider training. It makes drivers/riders overconfident, you know...

Gits.

[Patrick]

Try http://www.wayodd.com/philippine-lawmakers-want-motorcycles-banned-on-main-roads-highways/v/8708/


Motorcycles are banned completely in Beirut and Ghangzhou.

Pillions are banned in Pakistan

Beirut - motorbike bombs and assassinations....

Pakistan - assassinations..... probably bombs too...

Ghangzhou - crappy Chinese made bikes falling apart and taking out anything and everything near them....


Speaking of shortcuts, CBTA was designed for that and it was a brilliant idea. It stimulated the economy by providing scope for training organisations who could provide employment and got "lawbreakers' through to a full license in a short period of time with a good attitude to riding on the road and an enhanced set of riding skills.

Shame about that... a great idea really.....