Booze laws not working. Shame drivers and crush cars, say police

[Genestho]

DomPost (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominionpost/4847076a6479.html)

"hint at an expected crackdown on motorists who continue to drive drunk."

"A discussion document is expected to go to the public this year."

I say bring it on:yes:

[Patrick]

Long over due...

Shouldn't matter whose car it is either.

Bring it on.

[Mully]

+1. Repeat drink-drivers, or people who are 3 or 4 times the limit.

Crushy, crushy.

[firefighter]

I'm all for it, I think for repeat offenders is best though.....some people actually do buck up their ideas after being caught.....plus i'd hate to see a stolen car crushed by accident....

[ManDownUnder]

Crushing cars I am in two minds about. On the face of it - brilliant. Revenge is sweet etc... but there's potential $$$ going away that could be given to victim's families (in cash, counselling or damages...)

Tough one - but getting tougher on drunk drivers? HELL YES!

... bring it on...!

[Mully]

Yes, I was in two minds about crushing boy racers' cars..... Although, if they sold them, they'd only be sold to more boy racers.

I like the idea of seizing repeat drink drive offenders' vehicles and selling them.

[Boob Johnson]

Damn straight! :spanking:

What pisses me off is when you read "so n so is up on his 8th DIC conviction"....wtf!!! And the sentence handed down to him is not much different to the 7 before it :oi-grr:

[jrandom]

Crushing cars I am in two minds about. On the face of it - brilliant. Revenge is sweet etc... but there's potential $$$ going away that could be given to victim's families (in cash, counselling or damages...)

Good point, but then again, the administrative hassle of, f'rinstance, confiscating and selling the vehicles, could be a bit of a nightmare. What about liability when they're (as they often are) unsafely modified, etc?

I'm all for the crushing idea.

:niceone:

(Just so long as it stays restricted to drunk drivers. I can see the potential for 'scope creep', with all sorts of traffic regulations ending up linked to vehicle-crushing offenses. Seen doing a burnout? Crush. Caught driving while suspended? Crush. Carrying passengers on a restricted licence? Crush. You catch my drift.)

[ManDownUnder]

Good point, but then again, the administrative hassle of, f'rinstance, confiscating and selling the vehicles, could be a bit of a nightmare. What about liability when they're (as they often are) unsafely modified, etc?

I'm all for the crushing idea.

ok - compromise, chop the cars and sell them for parts?

I'm (genuinely) a fan of bringing back the stocks in a main square, and tomatoes being sold reeeeeaaaaallll cheap nearby. Humiliate the hell out of them - as part of the punishment.

[R6_kid]

I'm (genuinely) a fan of bringing back the stocks in a main square, and tomatoes being sold reeeeeaaaaallll cheap nearby. Humiliate the hell out of them - as part of the punishment.

Haha, that could help boost tourism numbers too!

[Skunk]

Car goes $1 reserve on TradeMe. Money goes to any victims. After the 3 convictions - chop their hands off.

[Hitcher]

What if the car is owned by somebody else? Such as a finance company, a neighbour, an employer or your grandmother? Unless the vehicle being destroyed has been acquired by the offender in hard-earned tax-paid dollars, destroying that vehicle is completely and utterly pointless. Indeed the ensuing litigation would be most entertaining indeed.

[EatOrBeEaten]

As a dirty foreigner I'm genuinely shocked by the general attitude towards drink-driving here. In the UK there was a massive, sustained campaign to change attitudes that actually worked. When I was a kid people still had that "she'll be right" attitude, now people take your keys if they think you're over the limit and it's seen as a really stupid, dangerous, anti-social thing to do, especially among young people.

The laws should be toughened up, but there needs to be a shift in attitude among everybody. This is not designed as an "it's better in the old country blah blah why don't I fuck off back there" rant, just genuine surprise that it's not seen as such an issue here!

[Patrick]

What if the car is owned by somebody else? Such as a finance company, a neighbour, an employer or your grandmother? Unless the vehicle being destroyed has been acquired by the offender in hard-earned tax-paid dollars, destroying that vehicle is completely and utterly pointless. Indeed the ensuing litigation would be most entertaining indeed.

Tough.

Finance Company can still recover their loss.

Car owners/family/employer whatever should be more responsible as to who is using their car. The owner can also sue the piss heads for losses for the crushed car.

My bet is that once this happens, no one will be "borrowing" anyone elses car except in an emergency. Getting pissed isn't an emergency.

[imdying]

We should have a vote... 'Name in the paper in big letters' or 'Right hand off at the elbow'. Now that'd be a shame ;)

[firefighter]

We should have a vote... 'Name in the paper in big letters' or 'Right hand off at the elbow'. Now that'd be a shame ;)

If your going to remove limbs another very important matter also has to be raised.....the removal of all access/rights for ANY benefits/dole/whatever the fuck it's called (I would'nt know) so that they can't just now say
"shit iv'e lost my arm I ca'nt work i'm going to sit at home and bludge now..." because that will happen.....you need to do both for it to work out....(it's how i'd like to see it in my world......) :apint:

[peasea]

Long over due...

Shouldn't matter whose car it is either.

Bring it on.

Too right. Like Howard Broad in 92. Only leave him in the car.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/AAMB3/aamsz=300x44_MULTILINK/4607550a11.html

[peasea]

Damn straight! :spanking:

What pisses me off is when you read "so n so is up on his 8th DIC conviction"....wtf!!! And the sentence handed down to him is not much different to the 7 before it :oi-grr:


Correct-o-mundo. I've ben DIC'd twice. Both times I was only JUST over the limit but no excuses. Once was in 78/79 and the second in 81, long time ago. I went to a pissup a while back where I was offered free grog and I managed to restrain myself, got bagged on the way home and flew through.

There's plenty of places to get on the turps other than on the road.

[peasea]

Getting pissed isn't an emergency.

Depends what the woman you're with looks like.

[twotyred]

As a dirty foreigner I'm genuinely shocked by the general attitude towards drink-driving here. In the UK there was a massive, sustained campaign to change attitudes that actually worked. When I was a kid people still had that "she'll be right" attitude, now people take your keys if they think you're over the limit and it's seen as a really stupid, dangerous, anti-social thing to do, especially among young people.

The laws should be toughened up, but there needs to be a shift in attitude among everybody. This is not designed as an "it's better in the old country blah blah why don't I fuck off back there" rant, just genuine surprise that it's not seen as such an issue here!

welcome to our little banana republic:crazy:

[jrandom]

As a dirty foreigner I'm genuinely shocked by the general attitude towards drink-driving here.

Bloody whinging Pom.

(Don't be shocked. It's our national sport.)

[The Pastor]

As a dirty foreigner I'm genuinely shocked by the general attitude towards drink-driving here. In the UK there was a massive, sustained campaign to change attitudes that actually worked. When I was a kid people still had that "she'll be right" attitude, now people take your keys if they think you're over the limit and it's seen as a really stupid, dangerous, anti-social thing to do, especially among young people.

The laws should be toughened up, but there needs to be a shift in attitude among everybody. This is not designed as an "it's better in the old country blah blah why don't I fuck off back there" rant, just genuine surprise that it's not seen as such an issue here!
laws dont change society, attitudes do.

[EatOrBeEaten]

laws dont change society, attitudes do.
Do you think the fact that almost every advert here seems to be a PSA doesn't help? It gets a bit desensiting after a while, surely?

[The Pastor]

Do you think the fact that almost every advert here seems to be a PSA doesn't help? It gets a bit desensiting after a while, surely?
psa ?

[Ixion]

Long over due...

Shouldn't matter whose car it is either.

Bring it on.

Stolen car?

[Skyryder]

What if the car is owned by somebody else? Such as a finance company, a neighbour, an employer or your grandmother? Unless the vehicle being destroyed has been acquired by the offender in hard-earned tax-paid dollars, destroying that vehicle is completely and utterly pointless. Indeed the ensuing litigation would be most entertaining indeed.

And that's it in a nutshell. It's all political postering. Most boy racer cars will be owned by the finance companies. The very people who voted for the Nats and ACT. Has Douglas or Hide come out in favour of this? Don't think so.

It will never happen.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Long over due...

Shouldn't matter whose car it is either.

Bring it on.

Unless it's yours or the Govt's.

Now that would be interesting a stolen cop car.


Skyryder

[Mom]

psa ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostate_specific_antigen

[FJRider]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostate_specific_antigen

I think you need to get out more often... get the clutch sorted first though...

[Mom]

I think you need to get out more often... get the clutch sorted first though...

Clutch/crutch...psa is important for you blokes :yes:

[EatOrBeEaten]

psa ?
Public Service Announcement. They're bad for it in the seat of empire, but out here it feels like every single advert is one. Kinda lose effectiveness after a while maybe?

[Genestho]

And that's it in a nutshell. It's all political postering. Most boy racer cars will be owned by the finance companies. The very people who voted for the Nats and ACT. Has Douglas or Hide come out in favour of this? Don't think so.

It will never happen.

Skyryder
Ahhhh but I have an email of support from Hide which disputes that assumption;)

[Genestho]

Public Service Announcement. They're bad for in the seat of empire, but out here it feels like every single advert is one. Kinda lose effectiveness after a while maybe?

I agree - Very uneffective and old news for the box watchers...+1

A study conducted out of Aus, back when the Bloody Idiot billboards were on the side of the Highways, shows drunk drivers - particularly repeat offenders -put the foot down, insulted that they should be called a bloody idiot, which ironically fits the anti-social/anti -authorative profile that US and NZ recidivist pychological studies show, is a tendancy shared.

[Grahameeboy]

I don't agree with crushing the cars...as Hitcher says all sorts of issues.

Why can't the Govt just introduce a lower limit...say enough that 1 bottle will put you over the limit...instead they keep the current limit and hope to change attitudes...knock knock..is anyone there.

Repeat offenders...most people who are caught for the first time are "repeat offenders".

By keeping the current limit you are effectively giving people a choice to take a chance...like the Govt gets Gst on motorbikes that can exceed the speed limit...daft.

If you limit to 1 bottle of beer then this would not give people much of a choice and would change attitude's...

[Genestho]

I don't agree with crushing the cars...as Hitcher says all sorts of issues.

Why can't the Govt just introduce a lower limit...say enough that 1 bottle will put you over the limit...instead they keep the current limit and hope to change attitudes...knock knock..is anyone there.
There will be a lowering of the limit, of that I have no doubt!!!!!
Repeat offenders...most people who are caught for the first time are "repeat offenders". Agreed, except they have no business cultivating multiple convictions at the cost of innocent road users lives

By keeping the current limit you are effectively giving people a choice to take a chance...like the Govt gets Gst on motorbikes that can exceed the speed limit...daft.

If you limit to 1 bottle of beer then this would not give people much of a choice and would change attitude's...
Unfortunately the majority of fatalities are not caused within the proposed or current limits

[Grahameeboy]

Unfortunately the majority of fatalities are not caused within the proposed or current limits

Trubs is that a lot of people try to play roulette with their consumption....if limit is lowered this to me puts a stop to this...

Seems the Govt applies "half measures" to a problem which is ironic.

I dont see then lowering the limit...they had trouble with the turning left rule...got cold feet.

Lets not forget that fatalities are caused by sober drivers...a bad driver is not a lot better than a drunk driver at times

[Genestho]

Trubs is that a lot of people try to play roulette with their consumption....if limit is lowered this to me puts a stop to this...Yea you're right on that one, Im trying to push for better public education on standard drinks and variables, I think we waste valuable tax payers dosh on the Bloody Idiot campaign, which has been grinding away for years
Seems the Govt applies "half measures" to a problem which is ironic.
I'll always be for a full measure which I guess if they lower the limit, is halfway there..Only because of the grey area ANY limit gives us
I dont see then lowering the limit...they had trouble with the turning left rule...got cold feet.
Theyre really pushing hard, and its got backing from ACC, you'll see this come up alot as they push for public opinion to sway...however Im NOT going to let them use the deaths of my Husband nor our Mates, for this limit change, as was tried on a few days after the funerals. And ever since with every fatality. I know for a fact this is a flawed rationale

Lets not forget that fatalities are caused by sober drivers...a bad driver is not a lot better than a drunk driver at times
Yep 70% of road fatalities are caused by "other" circumstances..I concur:Punk:

[EatOrBeEaten]

Yep 70% of road fatalities are caused by "other" circumstances..I concur:Punk:
Yeah, but 30% are caused by people deliberately drinking stupid-juice and getting behind the wheel of a tonne of steel that will go at over 160km/h.

The other 70% are harder to deal with, but drink-driving is inexcusable and a cunt's game IMO.

[Genestho]

Yeah, but 30% are caused by people deliberately drinking stupid-juice and getting behind the wheel of a tonne of steel that will go at over 160km/h.

The other 70% are harder to deal with, but drink-driving is inexcusable and a cunt's game IMO.

Already blinged you damnit!! Couldn't have put it better:2thumbsup

[Grahameeboy]

Yep 70% of road fatalities are caused by "other" circumstances..I concur:Punk:

I don't think education is the way to go...still telling how much you can drink when we should be telling people they should not drink and drive...hence lower the limit and people will soon be educated.

I remember the merge like a zip posters..bloody stupid because it should the cars not abiding to the 2 sec rule....what's wrong with just telling people to be nice ands courteous...I mean if I merge my zip too fast I catch my dick.....

[Grahameeboy]

Yeah, but 30% are caused by people deliberately drinking stupid-juice and getting behind the wheel of a tonne of steel that will go at over 160km/h.

The other 70% are harder to deal with, but drink-driving is inexcusable and a cunt's game IMO.

Surely killing someone whilst sober is inexcusable too...

[EatOrBeEaten]

Surely killing someone whilst sober is inexcusable too...
Aye, but you can't fight a war against wankers on all fronts. Think about it.

A sustained, focused attempt to shift attitudes on one thing is far easier to do than some generic "stop driving like a cunt" campaign.

If I'm teaching a class of bastards, it's far easier to direct my attack on one aspect of their antisocialness. Getting them all to do one thing right and build on it is easier than an all-out offensive that they switch off to...

[Genestho]

Surely killing someone whilst sober is inexcusable too...

Of course it is, any unnecasary death at the hands of another - drunk behind a 1 tonne weapon or not is inexcuseable...however speaking for myself....

I represent B.A.D.D, and I got a big job on....

I do believe Akilla? Have their tired driving campaign in full swing...

ACC is very keen on furthering Motorcycling Safety Campaigns...

And there are many current issues that need to be addressed...and I hope that they are, for innocent road users sakes..

[carver]

cause getting tough works, and you always think straight when your pissed right?

[EatOrBeEaten]

cause getting tough works, and you always think straight when your pissed right?
In the UK it worked by making it socially unacceptable. Mr. Pisshead might think it's OK to get behind the wheel, but his mates won't...

[Grahameeboy]

Aye, but you can't fight a war against wankers on all fronts. Think about it.

A sustained, focused attempt to shift attitudes on one thing is far easier to do than some generic "stop driving like a cunt" campaign.

If I'm teaching a class of bastards, it's far easier to direct my attack on one aspect of their antisocialness. Getting them all to do one thing right and build on it is easier than an all-out offensive that they switch off to...

So why not concentrate on the 70% then...I think the problem with drinking is that it is not considered "antisocialness"

[Genestho]

In the UK it worked by making it socially unacceptable. Mr. Pisshead might think it's OK to get behind the wheel, but his mates won't...

Re; the Mate, Mate, Mate guys name tv ad...

Like Renegade Master also said Society's attitude towards change is more effective...
BUT when you've got Munters that drink together and find it acceptable to drive after drinking...and its been going on for 20 years...then Law has to step in and stop them in their tracks.

[carver]

In the UK it worked by making it socially unacceptable. Mr. Pisshead might think it's OK to get behind the wheel, but his mates won't...

social engineering, just like all the teenage mums getting council flats, its brilliant.

[The Stranger]

Long over due...

Shouldn't matter whose car it is either.

Bring it on.

I hope no piss head steals your car.

[EatOrBeEaten]

social engineering, just like all the teenage mums getting council flats, its brilliant.
Where's that happening then?

[Pedrostt500]

The problem has never been with the Police or the laws they have to deal with, Drink Drivers, / Boy racers etc, The problem has been in the Justice System, there have been to many liberal lawers,/ judges, who hand down limp sentinces,
The Judicial system needs tougher guide lines, not just maximum sentences, But also minimum levels for sentences, and not allowing cop outs of trading off high fines for Community Service.
Being more ready to impose life time bans for driving, and owning motorvechicles, also Disqualifing Drivers for 12months and 1 day for their first Drink Driving Offence, would mean that person would require to resit their Drivers Licence.
Crushing Cars is an exstream meassure, and one that should be applied in exstream circumstances.
If I knew that the car I was driving was to be crushed because I was drink Driving or a Boy racer out for a Hoon, then I'd be driving un warrented Unregersterd UN Insured $500.00 peices of junk, Crush my car I go buy another old banger.

[Genestho]

The problem has never been with the Police or the laws they have to deal with, Drink Drivers, / Boy racers etc, The problem has been in the Justice System, there have been to many liberal lawers,/ judges, who hand down limp sentinces,
The Judicial system needs tougher guide lines, not just maximum sentences, But also minimum levels for sentences, and not allowing cop outs of trading off high fines for Community Service.
Being more ready to impose life time bans for driving, and owning motorvechicles, also Disqualifing Drivers for 12months and 1 day for their first Drink Driving Offence, would mean that person would require to resit their Drivers Licence.
Crushing Cars is an exstream meassure, and one that should be applied in exstream circumstances.
If I knew that the car I was driving was to be crushed because I was drink Driving or a Boy racer out for a Hoon, then I'd be driving un warrented Unregersterd UN Insured $500.00 peices of junk, Crush my car I go buy another old banger.

I ABSOLUTELY agree with the lack of backup with the Justice system, that limp ole thing is needing an overhaul, amazing how the stats on Home D have been handed out like lollies...yes, restrictions on purchasing new/second hand vehicles could assist in curbing that, mentioned in the Boy Racer thread...

[Dave Lobster]

Where's that happening then?

Heh heh.. have you seen the one about the 13 year old boy who's fathered a child in ingerlund?

It's hilarious..


http://www.stuff.co.nz/4849264a12.html

[EatOrBeEaten]

Heh heh.. have you seen the one about the 13 year old boy who's fathered a child in ingerlund?

It's hilarious..

I'd post a link. But my internet is with Telecom. And it's nothing like how they make it look in the TV. It's shit.
Horrendous, absolutely horrendous. Poor kid, she's like twice his size!

Still, the mum and sprog are sharing a 2-bed council flat with her dad and his numeous offspring.

Hardly the life of riley...

[Mikkel]

Crushing cars will get us nowhere. It's ultimately wasteful - expropriate them, sell them and use them to provide better public transportation, transportation network and information campaigns.

Also, let's face it, there's not going to be that many victims just because someone has collected $20k of speeding tickets.

What I sincerely think could work - if you can not pay your fines you get to do community service, wearing a fluoro vest, and you can pay it off at $5 an hour. That and labour camps, I'm sure we could find something that the poor young kids of today could do.

And if we really want to attack the problem at it's root - forced sterilisation. Or at least child quotas.

Just in case you are wondering - I am not entirely serious, but it's not a complete pisstake either.

[Genestho]

Heh heh.. have you seen the one about the 13 year old boy who's fathered a child in ingerlund?

It's hilarious..


http://www.stuff.co.nz/4849264a12.html
Dude! I saw that!!!! Looking down the track, its a crazy world!!!

[carver]

Where's that happening then?

the country you named

[EatOrBeEaten]

the country you named
The UK? Only if you read the Daily Mail. I know a fair few people out there work for borough councils in the social housing departments, and I can say with some level of half-assed authority that it doesn't happen like that unless said knocked-up mum gets VERY lucky...

[carver]

The UK? Only if you read the Daily Mail. I know a fair few people out there work for borough councils in the social housing departments, and I can say with some level of half-assed authority that it doesn't happen like that unless said knocked-up mum gets VERY lucky...

well, were in similar situations, im hearing it from ex pats

[EatOrBeEaten]

well, were in similar situations, im hearing it from ex pats
You can't trust British ex-pats. Bunch of wankers the lot of them! ;)

[Skyryder]

Ahhhh but I have an email of support from Hide which disputes that assumption;)

Fair enough. But I suspect that Hide may well support something he knows will not occur. Already Key has indicated that crushing cars is a last resort and we alll know what that means. 'It will never happen.' They are all just pandering to public opinion.

Skyryder

[Genestho]

Fair enough. But I suspect that Hide may well support something he knows will not occur. Already Key has indicated that crushing cars is a last resort and we alll know what that means. 'It will never happen.' They are all just pandering to public opinion.

Skyryder
Perhaps, it is what they do best, however, I love a challenge:clap::Pokey:

[popelli]

In the UK it worked by making it socially unacceptable. Mr. Pisshead might think it's OK to get behind the wheel, but his mates won't...

Wrong, drink driving is policed in the UK effectively by the insurance companies, you have to have insurance and if you have a drink drive conviction history, insurance is either declined or prohibitively expensive

there are virtually no cops on the road over here and if you wanted to drive pissed it would be very easy - heaven help you if you have an accident as the insurance will not cough, there is no acc and you would be personally liable without limit for any personal claims against you and any furture insurance will cost you a fortune if you can get it.

that is the real reason drink driving is more or less under control in the UK

[Hitcher]

that is the real reason drink driving is more or less under control in the UK

As opposed to having the worst binge drinking culture in western Europe. It's nice to know the Poms are doing something right.

[Patrick]

Too right. Like Howard Broad in 92. Only leave him in the car.

He wasn't over the limit... was he...?


Stolen car?

Fair enough... a bit hasty, I was. Include "the only exception is if it is stolen..." Can't think of any other exception.


Unless it's yours or the Govt's.

Now that would be interesting a stolen cop car.


Skyryder

See above. Stolen being the only exception. Otherwise "crush" on conviction. He/she would have to pay for the car and lose the job... Would take a while to pay it all back, I guess.....


I hope no piss head steals your car.

Happened once, before I joined. But we met... on the job...:whistle::innocent: Ahhh.... the good old days....


Wrong, drink driving is policed in the UK effectively by the insurance companies, you have to have insurance and if you have a drink drive conviction history, insurance is either declined or prohibitively expensive

This is true in NZ too...

there are virtually no cops on the road over here and if you wanted to drive pissed it would be very easy - heaven help you if you have an accident as the insurance will not cough,

Probably true too in NZ, except KB whingers always moan about all the snakes on the roads... the same snakes who catch pisshead drivers... go figure....:weird::shutup:

there is no acc

there is in NZ...

and you would be personally liable without limit for any personal claims against you and any furture insurance will cost you a fortune if you can get it.

that is the real reason drink driving is more or less under control in the UK

As it should be.....

[peasea]

He wasn't over the limit... was he...?

..

Wasn't proven maybe but I get the distinct whiff of Rattus Rattus.

[Patrick]

Wasn't proven maybe but I get the distinct whiff of Rattus Rattus.

Wasn't that the motorbike riding cat?

[popelli]

As opposed to having the worst binge drinking culture in western Europe. It's nice to know the Poms are doing something right.

too bloody true

but in the uk there is a public transport system that works (sort of) and you can get home when the pubs close

nowhere do the politicians when attacking the drink drive culture ever face up to the basic problem of how to get drunks home if there is no adequate public transport system

[Dave Lobster]

nowhere do the politicians when attacking the drink drive culture ever face up to the basic problem of how to get drunks home if there is no adequate public transport system

Easy.. give them some personal responsibility. Don't go somewhere you can't get home from. Or walk.. get a taxi.. get someone sober to give you a lift.
Even drunks can't be THAT retarded.