Maori rugby team

[MadDuck]

Can not see another thread on this.

I kind of understand where the Sarf Africans are coming from. We have a team based on race. No I dont agree with the "indigendous" argument.

[3umph]

I say good on them for there stand on this... they got crap for having a all white team for years so what the difference....

We are all New Zealanders no mater what race we are....

[SixPackBack]

Looks like the Springboks will refuse to play the Maori's, primarily it seems because they are a 'race based team'

Bitter hand ringing will follow [the saffa's have a point!].......but who cares its only fooken rugby:yes:

[Trudes]

Can not see another thread on this.

I kind of understand were the Sarf Africans are coming from. We have a team based on race. No I dont agree with the "indigendous" argument.

Yeah, so can I. There were protests here about their white only rugby team, maybe they're doing a bit of the "what's good for the goose"? (Not that I agree with racial segregation of any kind)

[jtzzr]

Bloody Maoris`, go play elsewhere.

[MadDuck]

There were protests here about their white only rugby team, maybe they're doing a bit of the "what's good for the goose"?

Yep got it in one. We as kiwis push racial equality then say we want to send an all maori team to Sarf Africa.

[AllanB]

Looks like the Springboks will refuse to play the Maori's, primarily it seems because they are a 'race based team'

Bitter hand ringing will follow [the saffa's have a point!].......but who cares its only fooken rugby:yes:


Well slap me with a wet fish - I agree!

[98tls]

I say good on them for there stand on this... they got crap for having a all white team for years so what the difference....

We are all New Zealanders no mater what race we are.... Nicely put,some are givers some are takers that makes us Bros surely.

[SixPackBack]

Well slap me with a wet fish - I agree!

Yup rugby is a shit game allright:eek5:

[Grahameeboy]

Yep got it in one. We as kiwis push racial equality then say we want to send an all maori team to Sarf Africa.

They have Maori Traffic Wardens...what's the issue...

Racism is only in the eyes of the beholder...Maori are just a group of like for like that want to send their own team...I mean come on calling the Nations Rugger Team "All Blacks" is hardly PC when most of them are black...

If you say no to Maori Teams you are contravening basic human rights and if you scrap the idea and then specifically push Maori into a standardised system that could also be regarded as prejudice...

I mean it's like saying Harley riders are not Bikers...init?

[98tls]

They have Maori Traffic Wardens...what's the issue...

Not down here in hicksville.Mind you nobody watches the Maori channel down here so we wouldnt have a clue what the ticket said.

[SixPackBack]

They have Maori Traffic Wardens...what's the issue...

Racism is only in the eyes of the beholder...Maori are just a group of like for like that want to send their own team...I mean come on calling the Nations Rugger Team "All Blacks" is hardly PC when most of them are black...

If you say no to Maori Teams you are contravening basic human rights and if you scrap the idea and then specifically push Maori into a standardised system that could also be regarded as prejudice...

I mean it's like saying Harley riders are not Bikers...init?


You musta forgottten about the dreaded Sprinboks tour. Please explain how this is different?

[Gubb]

So GB, you'd have no problems with Kyle Chapman's All Whites?

[MadDuck]

Racism is only in the eyes of the beholder...

Yes it is. And for once I question why the heck we need to have a seperate team. It exists in no other sport.

[Grahameeboy]

So GB, you'd have no problems with Kyle Chapman's All Whites?

If they want to do what they want to do, whether I agree or not, which I don't, I don't have a problem...

[Grahameeboy]

Yes it is. And for once I question why the heck we need to have a seperate team. It exists in no other sport.

Doesn't make it wrong either...no different to having Mens and Womens teams....in UK they have seperate Scottish Leagues and Welsh Leagues etc...

Far more important things to worry about

[98tls]

Yes it is. And for once I question why the heck we need to have a seperate team. It exists in no other sport. We have in this country for all intent n purpose a seperate welfare system,let sport seperate and we may well get the same at ground level.

[Grahameeboy]

You musta forgottten about the dreaded Sprinboks tour. Please explain how this is different?

When was that and no I don't...UK has the Lions

[Grahameeboy]

We have in this country for all intent n purpose a seperate welfare system,let sport seperate and we may well get the same at ground level.

Could be because we have 2 main different cultures though...

[98tls]

Could be because we have 2 main different cultures though... We do?Be nice to think so but sadly...i can understand there disappointment with muskets etc but all these years/billons later.

[MadDuck]

Far more important things to worry about

Just puting a point of view out there. Hey so let the taxpayer fund a tour that maybe it shouldnt?

[Max Preload]

They have Maori Traffic Wardens...

No. Maori Wardens.

That said, one did stand in the middle of the public road trying to direct traffic outside our local market, waving people through against the road rules without authority. So I told him to get the fuck off the road and went through ignoring the idiots who were stupid enough to ignore the rules and do as the cretin wanted. Then I parked about 20m away and repeated my displeasure at the stupidity of his actions.

[98tls]

No. Maori Wardens.
The name itself provokes laughter,imagine it "sort yourself out bro i beat up this white bitch when i was a young fella,not worth it man the fuckin honkies locked me up" blind leading the blind.

[McJim]

Doesn't make it wrong either...no different to having Mens and Womens teams....in UK they have seperate Scottish Leagues and Welsh Leagues etc...

But there are very few British players in the SPL or whatever the English Premier league is called.:rofl:

the issue as I see it is as follows:

Religion transcends race, and so it should.

Nationality transcends race, and so it should (when it doesn't you get the kind of fuck up known as Israel)

Sport should certainly transcend race but in this case it doesn't.

Reap what you sow and take it on the chin - it's only Safrica for goodness' sake. If we send the Maori over there they'll only get raped and robbed by the locals anyway.

[rainman]

Can not see another thread on this.


I was waiting for a thread on this (I'm a shy and retiring type, really).

This is the fucking funniest thing I have heard all week. :devil2: I LOLed when I heard it on the radio. Repeatedly.




Guess you had to be there.

[gatch]

Just to throw a different respective on this..

* There is no other ethnicity specific team in professional rugby..
* Maori are indiginous to Nz, so I guess that has some merit..
* Maori are second in the ethnicity percentage of this country (although exactly how maori do you have to be, to be counted as maori ?? Paul Tito..)
* Sports codes (like job interviews) are supposed to be de-void of prejudice based on religious trapping, race etc..
* The treaty of Waitangi took away any sovereignty the maori had so they should be governed and given the same rights as any other member of the public, this does not mean they are to be given any benefit not afforded to any other NZ'er..

I don't think there should be a NZ Maori team, its a slap in the face..

Anyway, ruggaby is a mug's game and it's going to the dogs like most other professional ball sports.

Rant complete, thankyou, money in the hat :)

[Forest]

Just to throw a different respective on this..

* There is no other ethnicity specific team in professional rugby..

Yes there is.

Fiji, Tonga, and Samoa only draw players from within their home unions. Which effectively makes them ethnically selected teams.

[Ragingrob]

But... Hmmm... Would you say New Zealanders are a race? And South Africans a race? So isn't a "New Zealander" only team racist anyway? Sure it's by country, but the people of a country are generally its race no? The "Fijian" rugby team etc etc... Don't see what's wrong with having a "Maori" rugby team, if anything South Africa are insulting the Maori as an individual culture and race.

[ital916]

Can not see another thread on this.

I kind of understand where the Sarf Africans are coming from. We have a team based on race. No I dont agree with the "indigendous" argument.

I would call that a gang no a rugby team :bleh:

[eelracing]

But... Hmmm...Don't see what's wrong with having a "Maori" rugby team, if anything South Africa are insulting the Maori as an individual culture and race.

Damn straight! Maori rugby has a strong tradition in NZ and world rugby.No fukn' South African bully boy tactic gonna change it.When it comes down to it ol whitey's still scared his ass is gonna get handed to him on a plate by a(old guard racists still reign)so called inferior race.

[ital916]

Damn straight! Maori rugby has a strong tradition in NZ and world rugby.No fukn' South African bully boy tactic gonna change it.When it comes down to it ol whitey's still scared his ass is gonna get handed to him on a plate by a(old guard racists still reign)so called inferior race.

I believe the term is a "bleck" (cannot use kaffir as maori are not african..well if you go back far enough). Stupid yarpie bastards. :laugh:

[SixPackBack]

When was that and no I don't...UK has the Lions

In this case a historical perspective is essential...................

For 56 days in July, August and September 1981, New Zealanders were divided against each other in the largest civil disturbance seen since the 1951 waterfront dispute. More than 150,000 people took part in over 200 demonstrations in 28 centres, and 1500 were charged with offences stemming from these protests.
To some observers it might seem inconceivable that the cause of this unrest was the visit to New Zealand of the South African rugby team (the Springboks). Although not a major sport on a global scale, rugby has established itself not only as New Zealand's number one sport but as a vital component in this country's national identity. In many ways the playing of rugby took a back seat in 1981, and the sport suffered in the following years as players and supporters came to terms with the fallout from the tour.
Some commentators have described this event as the moment when New Zealand lost its innocence as a country and as being a watershed in our view of ourselves as a country and people.

.........The demonstrations and civil unrest were in response to South Africa's apartheid system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Springbok_Tour

In response to comments about Fiji, Samoa, Tonga etc fielding race based teams: this is incorrect, the Islands contain a very high percentage of indigenous folk hence the make-up of the teams.

[Grahameeboy]

In this case a historical perspective is essential...................

For 56 days in July, August and September 1981, New Zealanders were divided against each other in the largest civil disturbance seen since the 1951 waterfront dispute. More than 150,000 people took part in over 200 demonstrations in 28 centres, and 1500 were charged with offences stemming from these protests.
To some observers it might seem inconceivable that the cause of this unrest was the visit to New Zealand of the South African rugby team (the Springboks). Although not a major sport on a global scale, rugby has established itself not only as New Zealand's number one sport but as a vital component in this country's national identity. In many ways the playing of rugby took a back seat in 1981, and the sport suffered in the following years as players and supporters came to terms with the fallout from the tour.
Some commentators have described this event as the moment when New Zealand lost its innocence as a country and as being a watershed in our view of ourselves as a country and people.

.........The demonstrations and civil unrest were in response to South Africa's apartheid system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Springbok_Tour

In response to comments about Fiji, Samoa, Tonga etc fielding race based teams: this is incorrect, the Islands contain a very high percentage of indigenous folk hence the make-up of the teams.




I must have a different view...it is just a game...did they really think the protests had an impact...sport should seperated by politics and if those demonstrators really cared they would be protesting all the time, not just over a sports game

[Quasievil]

two things
1/ who cares if the Maori have their own Rugby team, good on them, its been going for 120 years its good.
2/ Who cares if S.A wont let them play on the basis of it being a Rugby team based on race........would you expect anything diferent from a country scarred from years of segregation ?

more important issues to worry about, but go the Maori team.

[SixPackBack]

I must have a different view...it is just a game...did they really think the protests had an impact...sport should seperated by politics and if those demonstrators really cared they would be protesting all the time, not just over a sports game

At the time of the 1981 Springbok tour half the country took your view and the other half took the opposing view-hence the massive civil unrest.

To those not around at the time: I can remember rugby pitches being showered with glass, flour bombing of a live match at Mt eden [from a light plane], the formation of a special police squad to combat the protesters, huge crowds of protesters squaring off against the cops armed with bats and helmets........

'Course that shit stirring coont Minto was in the thick of it and that kinda reduced it to 'rent a crowd' for me personally.....fun times tho'

[SixPackBack]

two things
1/ who cares if the Maori have their own Rugby team, good on them, its been going for 120 years its good.
2/ Who cares if S.A wont let them play on the basis of it being a Rugby team based on race........would you expect anything diferent from a country scarred from years of segregation ?

more important issues to worry about, but go the Maori team.

No one hates racism more than me [remember 'bash a pom a day'?], nor cares less about the Maori rugby or rugby per se. But the South Africans are applying exactly the same logic we applied in 1981 Springbok tour-race based teams are wrong!

Perhaps in the post apartheid age the Saffa's are doing their best to right the wrongs of the past!?.

[DMNTD]

Perhaps in the post apartheid age the Saffa's are doing their best to right the wrongs of the past!?

Tis the way I see it

[Dave Lobster]

Just to throw a different respective on this..

* Maori are indiginous to Nz, so I guess that has some merit..


No they aren't. They just killed and ate those here before them.



* Maori are second in the ethnicity percentage of this country (although exactly how maori do you have to be, to be counted as maori ?? Paul Tito..)


How many of them are more white than they are maori? 3/4 of them? 7/8 of them?

Most of the ones in that ball kicking team on the TV last night appeared to be white anyway.

[MisterD]

I kind of understand where the Sarf Africans are coming from.

Well I fooking don't understand where they're coming from at all. Set aside any opinions you might have about the "Maori All Blacks", South Africa have a quota system to force teams to play black players - what, I ask you is the difference?

[SixPackBack]

Well I fooking don't understand where they're coming from at all. Set aside any opinions you might have about the "Maori All Blacks", South Africa have a quota system to force teams to play black players - what, I ask you is the difference?


Bloody good point, I forgot about that.

[3umph]

No they aren't. They just killed and ate those here before them.

How many of them are more white than they are maori? 3/4 of them? 7/8 of them?

Most of the ones in that ball kicking team on the TV last night appeared to be white anyway.

People seem to forget about the old marioras (sp) that were here first...

maybe the maori team should play a white SA team only then... what an out cry that would be...

sorry but as I said before we are New Zealanders... and should not have national race based team for international matches

good on SA for there stand

[The Stranger]

Yep got it in one. We as kiwis push racial equality then say we want to send an all maori team to Sarf Africa.

Yeah, it's a little different though.
We do have a team that is open to all - many many of them actually.

Is there a problem with a women only team? or a forces team? etc etc.

Also the protests were not really about the team being white only, but about apartheid.

[davereid]

I mean it's like saying Harley riders are not Bikers...init?

No, its not quite the same. People CHOOSE to be Harley Riders. No one CHOOSES their race, ya just get what ya get.

Thats what makes it different. If you get sick of being the slowest biker, with the worst brakes, and the biggest oil leaks, you have the choice of changing.

But you can't change your race.

Thats why anyone who pushes a cause based on race is inherently racist - even if they think they are doing well, they are misguided.

The Treaty of Waitangi is a perfect example. It was never a treaty between nations, and it reached a natural end when New Zealanders of all races got equal voting rights. We all got an equal share of sovereignty at that time, and we should have put the race card away.

Now it is confused, as quite legitimate land claims are being mixed with taniwha, and rubbish claims.

[Bass]

two things
1/ who cares if the Maori have their own Rugby team, good on them, its been going for 120 years its good.
2/ Who cares if S.A wont let them play on the basis of it being a Rugby team based on race........would you expect anything diferent from a country scarred from years of segregation ?

more important issues to worry about, but go the Maori team.

I'm with Quasi.
I used to think differently but then I found out that you only have to be 1/16 Maori to qualify.
Let's say we had a Caucasian team on the same basis i.e. at least 1/16 Caucasian..................the whole Maori team would qualify for starters.
On top of that, look up racist in the dictionary. For something to be racist requires there to be some detriment attached to it. Who is REALLY disadvantaged by the existence of the Maori national team? There is a NZ Samoan team for comparason and membership requirements are more stringent than for the Maori team.
Lastly, I struggle to differentiate ethnicity from many other common interest groupings. There are all sorts of commonalities (besides ethnicity) over which we have no control and which could be (and are) used to draw distinctions. We could have a left handed team or a ginga team or a........... pick any one of dozens.
In practical terms, what's the difference between that and an ethnic qualification?

[firefighter]

Just to throw a different respective on this..
* Maori are indiginous to Nz, so I guess that has some merit..

who the hell told you that? They came here from somewhere else....even their own folk-lore states this! hawaiiki or somesuch.....they came here and ate the indigenous folk, then cried about the british ripping them off......


Damn straight! Maori rugby has a strong tradition in NZ and world rugby.No fukn' South African bully boy tactic gonna change it.When it comes down to it ol whitey's still scared his ass is gonna get handed to him on a plate by a(old guard racists still reign)so called inferior race.

Only our own bully boy tactics should apply to the saffas then? they are doing back what happenend to them, I think "practice what you preach" comes to mind here.....


No they aren't. They just killed and ate those here before them.
How many of them are more white than they are maori? 3/4 of them? 7/8 of
them?
Most of the ones in that ball kicking team on the TV last night appeared to be white anyway.

Correct. And as for most of em' being white- well they had to prove they were maori enough to be on the team first, not just that they are a kiwi....that's why it's racist, like the maori party-but that's another bucket of worms.


People seem to forget about the old marioras (sp) that were here first...

maybe the maori team should play a white SA team only then... what an out cry that would be...

good on SA for there stand

Agree with you there, remember it's never racist if the maoris are doing it, in fact YOU are being racist for saying something.....(maori only beach anyone?- funny how that show the other night with the fisheries inspectors showed all maoris and asians pillaging the fucken beaches.....)


Yeah, it's a little different though.
We do have a team that is open to all - many many of them actually.

Is there a problem with a women only team? or a forces team? etc etc.

Also the protests were not really about the team being white only, but about apartheid.

Your joking- those other teams are open to all races within those categories, it's not even the same argument......

[bull]

How many of them are more white than they are maori? 3/4 of them? 7/8 of them?

Most of the ones in that ball kicking team on the TV last night appeared to be white anyway.

And even the whitest least Maori blooded person still wants to be a part of the Famous NZ Maori Rugby Team - that shows the prestige and high regard the team has in rugby history.

Nothing wrong with the South Africans not wanting to play them - plenty of other countries for NZ Maori to tour.

[The Stranger]

Your joking- those other teams are open to all races within those categories, it's not even the same argument......

You're joking - they all "discriminate" in one way or another. The issue is about discrimination.
Look up "analogy" and that can be the something new you learnt today. You can thank me later.

[firefighter]

You're joking - they all "discriminate" in one way or another. The issue is about discrimination.
Look up analogy and that can be the something new you learnt today. You can thank me later.

Analogy is both the cognitive process of transferring information from a particular subject (the analogue or source) to another particular subject (the target), and a linguistic expression corresponding to such a process. In a narrower sense, analogy is an inference or an argument from one particular to another particular, as opposed to deduction, induction, and abduction, where at least one of the premises or the conclusion is general. The word analogy can also refer to the relation between the source and the target themselves, which is often, though not necessarily, a similarity.

Yes, you are correct, they discriminate, you have to be a woman, or in the forces, but you can be of any race- which is what I believe the op is getting at....that it is unjust to have a race based team.....not the fact that you have to be a human with a vagina, a penis or work for a particular company.....

[Bass]

You're joking - they all "discriminate" in one way or another. The issue is about discrimination.
Look up "analogy" and that can be the something new you learnt today. You can thank me later.

+1

Surely the issue is that of drawing a distinction to someone's disadvantage, based on a characteristic over which they have no control?? (The "forces" one is not a good example)

There are dozens, perhaps even hundreds of those, but the "race" one has come to have a huge emotional attachment, possibly because it's the commonest/largest one.

IMHO there's not a lot of logic attached to that

[Mr Merde]

They have Maori Traffic Wardens...what's the issue...

.......I mean come on calling the Nations Rugger Team "All Blacks" is hardly PC when most of them are black......

Look into the history of the name.

Originally they played in blue.

When touring the UK in the 1890's early 1900's a newspaper reported on the team and remarked that they played like they were "all backs".

A typographical error resulted in the letter L being inserted into the word backs making it blacks.

NZ rugby thought this a good idea and changed the uniform to black and renamed the team to what we know it know.

[Tank]

Yes there is.

Fiji, Tonga, and Samoa only draw players from within their home unions. Which effectively makes them ethnically selected teams.

No it doesn't - If we moved there and my son was born there and he turned out to be good at rugby he would make the team regardless of being whiter than an albinos inner thigh.

Having said that if he turned out to be really good at rugby he would be stolen by the NZRFU.

[ManDownUnder]

You musta forgottten about the dreaded Sprinboks tour. Please explain how this is different?

err... they were white?

I do think it's funny personally. On one hand there's the celebration of Maoridom argument which I have no problems with at all. But to me that implies celebrating things traditional... and Rugby sort of sits outside that list...

I'm with the Yarpies on this one.

[Tank]

I used to have some Maori in me.

But then I got paroled.

Lets never talk of this again.

[Mr Merde]

......no different to having Mens and Womens teams.......
Far more important things to worry about

Surely by this reasoning the IOC, the Commonwealth Games and all other sporting bodies should be taken to task for sexual disrimination. They segregate sports by gender. Isnt this against everything that the politically correct have been arguing for for the past 30+ years.

[Tank]

Surely by this reasoning the IOC, the Commonwealth Games and all other sporting bodies should be taken to task for sexual disrimination. They segregate sports by gender. Isnt this against everything that the politically correct have been arguing for for the past 30+ years.

They have a gay Olympics. (its true).

Qualifying must be a bugger.

[firefighter]

Look into the history of the name.

Originally they played in blue.

When touring the UK in the 1890's early 1900's a newspaper reported on the team and remarked that they played like they were "all backs".

A typographical error resulted in the letter L being inserted into the word backs making it blacks.

NZ rugby thought this a good idea and changed the uniform to black and renamed the team to what we know it know.

When I was on deployment in the middle-east the world cup was on, I wrote on the menu board at the mess "go the all blacks", the Canadian chief rubbed it out and would'nt let it stay there because he said it was offensive.....needless to say I thought the word "Canuck" was offensive for the rest of the tour......(rubbed it off the board)

[Tank]

When I was on deployment in the middle-east the world cup was on, I wrote on the menu board at the mess "go the all blacks", the Canadian chief rubbed it out and would'nt let it stay there because he said it was offensive.....

Funny how the unformed PC can find racism where it doesn't actually exist. Based of their own biased view of the world.

[Mr Merde]

They have a gay Olympics. (its true).

Qualifying must be a bugger.

Very well phrased.

My first laugh of the day

Thanks for that

[The Stranger]

Analogy is both the cognitive process of transferring information from a particular subject (the analogue or source) to another particular subject (the target), and a linguistic expression corresponding to such a process. In a narrower sense, analogy is an inference or an argument from one particular to another particular, as opposed to deduction, induction, and abduction, where at least one of the premises or the conclusion is general. The word analogy can also refer to the relation between the source and the target themselves, which is often, though not necessarily, a similarity.

Yes, you are correct

You have done well. I'll give you a pass (50%) for today's lesson. Even though it is plagiarism and clearly not your own work I think you may have the concept.

And thank you, takes a brave man to admit he's wrong.

[firefighter]

Surely by this reasoning the IOC, the Commonwealth Games and all other sporting bodies should be taken to task for sexual disrimination. They segregate sports by gender. Isnt this against everything that the politically correct have been arguing for for the past 30+ years.

I know of a very good answer to this, unfortunately i'm a retard and ca'nt word it how it should be worded, I learnt the reasons why while in the NZDF and complaining about how on earth a woman can pass the fitness test without having to do the same test as a male, considering we were on the same pay etcetc....something to do with males are genetically stronger, and it is actually unfair to expect them to do the same physical work as a male.....(someting along those lines....) it did bug be having to do all the heavy work for myself as well as my female colleagues I have to admit- I did'nt get paid extra yet I had to work harder....

[The Stranger]

Can not see another thread on this.

I kind of understand where the Sarf Africans are coming from. We have a team based on race. No I dont agree with the "indigendous" argument.

Fuck, this is as bad as the girly coffee rides debates.


Let's face it, the Springboks are just looking for excuses not to have to face the humiliation of having their arses kicked.

[Grahameeboy]

No one hates racism more than me [remember 'bash a pom a day'?], nor cares less about the Maori rugby or rugby per se. But the South Africans are applying exactly the same logic we applied in 1981 Springbok tour-race based teams are wrong!

Perhaps in the post apartheid age the Saffa's are doing their best to right the wrongs of the past!?.

1981 is 27 years ago...move on.....

[Grahameeboy]

Surely by this reasoning the IOC, the Commonwealth Games and all other sporting bodies should be taken to task for sexual disrimination. They segregate sports by gender. Isnt this against everything that the politically correct have been arguing for for the past 30+ years.

Yes but in sport you do have the physical differences to consider...so if you made a women sprinter compete with a male sprinter ie not a fair race, then that would be discrimination too.

Remember women generally have a small muscle mass than men and a slightly smaller heart. Now I am not saying that women should not be given the chance to compete with men...and sports like Korfball are mixed...but you don't see many women complaining.

[Okey Dokey]

Given SA history I guess they must be very careful of how they are perceived by the rest of the world. It is PR spin in my opinion.

Their national teams would probably be more closely scrutinised for any racial behaviour than most others, so they are covering their bums.

I heard a SA guy on Nat Radio this morning saying it would be okay for the Maori Team to come and play a local team from a black or white school. He admits that black or white schools are the reality in SA.

They just don't want their national team to show their country in a bad light. It is about SA and PR.

[firefighter]

You have done well. I'll give you a pass (50%) for today's lesson. Even though it is plagiarism and clearly not your own work I think you may have the concept.

And thank you, takes a brave man to admit he's wrong.

lol, no i'm not wrong, we are talking chalk and cheese, your debating discrimination, i'm talking racism, which is discrimination :pinch:, but it's descrimination of race......not just a categorical type of discimination (you know what I mean)

I think it would cease to be racist however if they played other race based teams, where it would become a categorical competition.....ie, aboriginees vs NZ maori etc.....


besides, i'm right and your wrong....lol.

[Mr Merde]

Isnt life a bitch when all the good intentions backfire?

[SixPackBack]

1981 is 27 years ago...move on.....

Huh?..Time is irrelevant when applied to racism

[Trudes]

We could have a ginga team
Yeah, but that would just be funny!

1981 is 27 years ago...move on.....

1840 was 169 years ago.... move on.... pass me another Tui.

[Swoop]

They have a gay Olympics. (its true).

Qualifying must be a bugger.
I bet the Pole Vaulting event is well attended.

[MisterD]

Yes but in sport you do have the physical differences to consider...so if you made a women sprinter compete with a male sprinter ie not a fair race, then that would be discrimination too.

Whiteys have to compete with those of "West African Extraction" which isn't a fair race either...

[Mr Merde]

I bet the Pole Vaulting event is well attended.

Favourite would have to be the Greco-Roman wrestling event (Turkish style, dripping with olive oil)

[Dave Lobster]

Whiteys have to compete with those of "West African Extraction" which isn't a fair race either...

But generally in those sort of races, the whitey chasing just has to use his radio to call for back up...

[Dave Lobster]

People seem to forget about the old marioras (sp) that were here first...



The Scottish/Scandanavians were here first.

[mogiman]

They have Maori Traffic Wardens...what's the issue...

Racism is only in the eyes of the beholder...Maori are just a group of like for like that want to send their own team...I mean come on calling the Nations Rugger Team "All Blacks" is hardly PC when most of them are black...

It not about the colour of the people,Its is the colour of the shirts and shorts and socks hence All Blacks

If you say no to Maori Teams you are contravening basic human rights and if you scrap the idea and then specifically push Maori into a standardised system that could also be regarded as prejudice...

I mean it's like saying Harley riders are not Bikers...init?

So wheres the nz tongan team ,nz samoan team,nz chinese team ,nz european team and the other 96 races of people who call NZ home etc....rasist not to have them
Your history maybe Maori,Samoan,European, but if you live here your a kiwi(NZer)
Every other person who lives here has to live to that standard
Fact is they had to change the way they were (SA) and i can see there p.o.v

[Grahameeboy]

Huh?..Time is irrelevant when applied to racism

Well it should not be...

[Grahameeboy]

Whiteys have to compete with those of "West African Extraction" which isn't a fair race either...

No, Whites are the fair race silly....

What abouut Swimming...whites do better...field events too...I won't ask what your speciality is....

[Grahameeboy]

So wheres the nz tongan team ,nz samoan team,nz chinese team ,nz european team and the other 96 races of people who call NZ home etc....rasist not to have them
Your history maybe Maori,Samoan,European, but if you live here your a kiwi(NZer)
Every other person who lives here has to live to that standard
Fact is they had to change the way they were (SA) and i can see there p.o.v

No because they have not chosen to have their own teams...

I was born in London, been here 10 years and I am not a Kiwi...how can I be, that is just dumb dude...

[Mr Merde]

The Scottish/Scandanavians were here first.


Evidence that the Phonecians may have lived here 600BCE

Read the Radical History on this page

http://www.zealand.org.nz/history.htm

Appologies for going off topic

[mogiman]

No because they have not chosen to have their own teams...

MMM but they do

I was born in London, been here 10 years and I am not a Kiwi...how can I be, that is just dumb dude...

If you moved to live here,your a kiwi because you moved here for the kiwi lifestyle ,And if you did that you ,moved from something you didnt like .
But your history is English ,and if you moved here and dont want to assimilate into a kiwi maybe you should move back to London ,people with attitudes like that stop nz going forward

[Dave Lobster]

Evidence that the Phonecians may have lived here 600BCE

Read the Radical History on this page

http://www.zealand.org.nz/history.htm

Appologies for going off topic

No apology needed..

Do you think the Phonecians will be making any claims from any of the iwi?

I'd pay to see that.. Maybe not $10M. But certainly a few bucks.

[Mr Merde]

No apology needed..

Do you think the Phonecians will be making any claims from any of the iwi?

I'd pay to see that.. Maybe not $10M. But certainly a few bucks.

Read the site,

Phonecians, arabs, chinese, scotts all before 1200 AD

[Mr Merde]

http://www.zealand.org.nz/images/ptolemy.jpg

http://www.zealand.org.nz/images/radical.jpg
the Ptolemaic Greeks

This (image above) is the famous Ptolemy map of the world, as known by the Greeks two hundred years before the birth of Christ.
It was produced by Claudius Ptolemaeus, or Ptolemy, in 151 AD. If you look at the schematic beneath, the land mass marked Taprobana is not Ceylon as previously suggested - it's Australia ! Tasmania is even included.
As that is Australia, then the 2 islands named Bona Fortuna (boxed in red) look like - and would be - New Zealand.

http://www.zealand.org.nz/images/smptolemy.jpg
At least one hypothesis suggests that a Ptolemaic king, maybe Ptolemy VI, financed a circumnavigation of the Earth about 180 BC, and from the Red Sea, he sailed straight into the Pacific Ocean.
Ptolemaic coins have been found in Northland. The first coin was found by leonard Schmidt about 1950 on the beach at Okiato Point, in the Bay of Islands - a Ptolemy VI bronze coin that would have been in circulation from 181-145 BC.

http://www.zealand.org.nz/images/ptolcoin.gif
The second was an almost identical coin, found in Auckland, dating from 221 - 204 BC.
Once again, if a European could get into a wooden boat and come sailing right around the world to bump into NZ, why couldn't an Egyptian from a culture and wisdom that was at least 4,000 years old at the time ? And if an Egyptian didn't, then who provided the remarkably accurate information on the Ptolemy map?

[Maha]

So wheres the nz tongan team ,nz samoan team,nz chinese team ,nz european team and the other 96 races of people who call NZ home etc....rasist not to have them


You didnt say rugby teams...
So I will have a crack at that.

nz tongan team...That would be Auckland B
nz samoan team... That would be The Blues.
nz chinese team...Ping Pong.....dur!
nz european team...Im picking that stoopid soccer team we have.

[wickle]

Who's bitching about it, THE RUGBY UNION . why? cause they are going to lose earnings!

[Mr Merde]

Who's bitching about it, THE RUGBY UNION . why? cause they are going to lose earnings!

Money talks....

[gatch]

Yes there is.

Fiji, Tonga, and Samoa only draw players from within their home unions. Which effectively makes them ethnically selected teams.

I believe this is only because they cannot afford to poach players from other unions, their selections are based on best of what they have, not because they are fijian or samoan, but i could be wrong..

[gatch]

Bahahah sure maori are indiginous, they were definately the first ones here, you ask any maori historian..

Also, try telling any maori that they are more related to the asian populace (mongoloid) of the world rather than the black populace (negroid) and that their youth culture should be closer to hello kitty merchandise and excessive camera use rather than hip-hop and baggy pants..

Sorry off topic I know, but I think its quite a laugh..

[Grahameeboy]

If you moved to live here,your a kiwi because you moved here for the kiwi lifestyle ,And if you did that you ,moved from something you didnt like .
But your history is English ,and if you moved here and dont want to assimilate into a kiwi maybe you should move back to London ,people with attitudes like that stop nz going forward

Typical Kiwi old fashioned response.

I am not a Kiwi...that is a fact...I don't have to assimilate into a Kiwi and sometimes that is not a bad thing to be honest...I liked UK, my ex Wife got a 2 year transfer...obviously still here...I love New Zealand, nothing to do with the Kiwi Lifestyle because I had a good lifestyle in UK, just like the lack of people and traffic and great roads for riding my bike.

Like all Country's there is good and bad...the bad here is good in my book although many Kiwi's still complain for some strange reason.

At the end of the day I am ME...

Hope that answers your question.

Kind Regards

[peasea]

Money talks....

Quite right. The more money the Maoris get the more they whinge.

[Grahameeboy]

Bahahah sure maori are indiginous, they were definately the first ones here, you ask any maori historian..

Also, try telling any maori that they are more related to the asian populace (mongoloid) of the world rather than the black populace (negroid) and that their youth culture should be closer to hello kitty merchandise and excessive camera use rather than hip-hop and baggy pants..

Sorry off topic I know, but I think its quite a laugh..

Any person born here is indiginous...maori may have got here first, however, that is nothing to do with indiginous...strict definitions may differ but essentially people have colonized NZ, made it part of their history and so are indiginous.

[peasea]

At the end of the day I am ME...



No you're not; I am me!

[Grahameeboy]

No you're not; I am me!

Notice mine is in capitals...please make note...

[Dave Lobster]

Quite right. The more money the Maoris get the more they whinge.

There's a VERY simple way to turn that around.



Notice mine is in capitals...please make note...

And apostrophes:



Like all Country's there is good and bad...the bad here is good in my book although many Kiwi's still complain for some strange reason.

[peasea]

Notice mine is in capitals...please make note...

Actually, I think we've had this conversation before.

[HenryDorsetCase]

my first and last post on this: only because I am bored shitless.

don't ban people from playing rugby because of their race, ban rugby altogether.

Its a stupid barbaric violent pointless "sport" that saps too much time and money in this country.

Without rugby there would be: less ACC, less testosterone fuelled boofheads beating up their women folk and being generally obnoxious, much more interesting conversations (perhaps about art, nusic, architecture or modern dance), a lot less pointless energy expended on shit that don't matter.

Problem solved.



I hate stick and ball sports. can you tell?

[peasea]

my first and last post on this: only because I am bored shitless.

don't ban people from playing rugby because of their race, ban rugby altogether.

Its a stupid barbaric violent pointless "sport" that saps too much time and money in this country.

Without rugby there would be: less ACC, less testosterone fuelled boofheads beating up their women folk and being generally obnoxious, much more interesting conversations (perhaps about art, nusic, architecture or modern dance), a lot less pointless energy expended on shit that don't matter.

Problem solved.



I hate stick and ball sports. can you tell?

Run for office, I'd vote for ya!

[Trudes]

Any person born here is indiginous...maori may have got here first, however, that is nothing to do with indiginous...strict definitions may differ but essentially people have colonized NZ, made it part of their history and so are indiginous.

Oh please send that to all the writers of the shit I have to read for my degree that go on and on about the indigenous culture of NZ blah blah blah, and the lecturers at Massey University while you're at it who insist on ramming the Treaty of Waitangi down my throat at every oppourtunity. It would cut my four year degree down to about two if I didn't have to keep reading the same shit said in a different way constantly!!!

[davereid]

...maori may have got here first, however, that is nothing to do with indiginous...

There is no doubt that maori did not get here first.

Maori History described the first inhabitants of New Zealnd as being here when they arrived. They were fair skinned, red haired people. Their fate is unknown, assimilated and assassinated is the best guess.

The later tribes of these people are called Ngati-Hotu, and their existence is well recorded, and is recorded in original government transcripts of maori history.

Ngati Hotu are now extinct, and are now claimed by maori, as other maoris.

[98tls]

There is no doubt that maori did not get here first.

Maori History described the first inhabitants of New Zealnd as being here when they arrived. They were fair skinned, red haired people. Their fate is unknown, assimilated and assassinated is the best guess.

The later tribes of these people are called Ngati-Hotu, and their existence is well recorded, and is recorded in original government transcripts of maori history.

Ngati Hotu are now extinct, and are now claimed by maori, as other maoris.
Theres that "claiming" thing again.

[Max Preload]

I don't like rugby. Nay, I detest it. However, I also detest hypocrites and Minto is a hypocrite. A team based primarily on exclusion of someone based on their bloodlines is racist. Minto should be out protesting a Maori team, but as I've already stated, Minto is a hypocrite.

While I'm ranting, 'affirmative action' is just racism against whites.

[BuFfY]

I can't be bothered reading the whole thread, read most of it.

The "All Blacks" weren't named because of their colour. They were nicknamed the all backs, someone changed it because of the colour of their uniform.

I have never really had a big issue with the Maori rugby team. Just like I have never had a problem with the Black Ferns. They just have a set criteria. And it is not like there is no big team for everyone else to play in! People are more successful in other teams! And it is great that there is another high standard team in New Zealand that can tour etc, get players noticed, more experience.

[peasea]

Oh please send that to all the writers of the shit I have to read for my degree that go on and on about the indigenous culture of NZ blah blah blah, and the lecturers at Massey University while you're at it who insist on ramming the Treaty of Waitangi down my throat at every oppourtunity. It would cut my four year degree down to about two if I didn't have to keep reading the same shit said in a different way constantly!!!


NO, No, No! I won't have that, sorry. Listen; if your above post had an ounce of truth in it your time at Uni could be cut to two minutes, not two years!

Get it right woman.

My sister, a very loving, caring and talented woman, would be a valued nurse today (looking after anyone from the injured to the aged) if were not for the fact that she refused a certain Maori portion of her training. She declared it irrelevant and time-wasting.

What a load of politically correct b/s.

[peasea]

Notice mine is in capitals...please make note...

You don't live in Wellington, so nothing you post is in any capital.

[merv]

Doesn't worry me at all if we set up a Chinese Expats Slant Eyed Blacks team, or a Pommy Expats pea, pie and 'pud eating Blacks team. Everyone has the right to hang out in their own groups, but then if the South Africans don't want them visiting, then don't bother, go somewhere nicer.

Hell we are in the Capital and me and Trudes and Col could set up a Wairoa expats team of indulgent chocolate eaters in Wellington or something like that huh! Hmm lunch, when's the next Welly lunch with or without rugby talk?

[Robert Taylor]

I say good on them for there stand on this... they got crap for having a all white team for years so what the difference....

We are all New Zealanders no mater what race we are....

Except for the scarf wearing Muslims, they can go right back to where they came from.

[Trudes]

NO, No, No! I won't have that, sorry. Listen; if your above post had an ounce of truth in it your time at Uni could be cut to two minutes, not two years!

Get it right woman.

My sister, a very loving, caring and talented woman, would be a valued nurse today (looking after anyone from the injured to the aged) if were not for the fact that she refused a certain Maori portion of her training. She declared it irrelevant and time-wasting.

What a load of politically correct b/s.
Holy shit!! I love her style!! I'm so fuckin over it! Every bloody paper has a fair amount of it in its content, Christ, enough already!!!

Doesn't worry me at all if we set up a Chinese Expats Slant Eyed Blacks team, or a Pommy Expats pea, pie and 'pud eating Blacks team. Everyone has the right to hang out in their own groups, but then if the South Africans don't want them visiting, then don't bother, go somewhere nicer.

Hell we are in the Capital and me and Trudes and Col could set up a Wairoa expats team of indulgent chocolate eaters in Wellington or something like that huh! Hmm lunch, when's the next Welly lunch with or without rugby talk?

Hey sounds good to me, Strawberry Fare?

[Swoop]

Oh please send that to all the writers of the shit I have to read for my degree that go on and on about the indigenous culture of NZ blah blah blah, and the lecturers at Massey University while you're at it who insist on ramming the Treaty of Waitangi down my throat at every oppourtunity. It would cut my four year degree down to about two if I didn't have to keep reading the same shit said in a different way constantly!!!
Ahh. Bliss.
When work pays for this shit.
When the lecturers are plentiful.
When the results are unimportant...
the fun-factory is in FULL production...
For some reason, lecturers' do not like Wanganui instead of whanganui...

Not much burley is needed for a certain fishing location.

[popelli]

For some reason, lecturers' do not like Wanganui instead of whanganui...



there are 7 different versions of the glorious idigenous language, one for every boat that landed

for some reason the east coast version has been forced upon everybody

so now the northern place names (and many others) have been changed to the east coast variants

strange that places I talked about at school with local idigenous people no longer exist and have been replaced with some foreign east coast name

[peasea]

there are 7 different versions of the glorious idigenous language, one for every boat that landed

for some reason the east coast version has been forced upon everybody

so now the northern place names (and many others) have been changed to the east coast variants

strange that places I talked about at school with local idigenous people no longer exist and have been replaced with some foreign east coast name

Like Mount Egmont being replaced with The Naki Hill or Mount Cook for Anoraki, coz it rains heaps?

[merv]

Go the Horis.

[outlawtorn]

Now the rest of the world can maybe start to see the kind of shit that happens in South Africa, the racial card has been played for decades in that country, I just wish they would get over it.

[MadDuck]

Fuck, this is as bad as the girly coffee rides debates.

Let's face it, the Springboks are just looking for excuses not to have to face the humiliation of having their arses kicked.

Hahahaha....the best response so far. Just trying to get my head around the concept though.

We have girly coffee runs because we dont want to get our arses kicked? Take it international I say :yes:

[Max Preload]

My sister, a very loving, caring and talented woman, would be a valued nurse today (looking after anyone from the injured to the aged) if were not for the fact that she refused a certain Maori portion of her training. She declared it irrelevant and time-wasting.

What a load of politically correct b/s.


Holy shit!! I love her style!! I'm so fuckin over it! Every bloody paper has a fair amount of it in its content, Christ, enough already!!!

This will make you laugh. Or cry. From the NEW ZEALAND ELECTRICAL CODE OF PRACTICE FOR HOMEOWNER/OCCUPIER’S - ELECTRICAL WIRING WORK IN DOMESTIC INSTALLATIONS.

[Trudes]

This will make you laugh. Or cry. From the NEW ZEALAND ELECTRICAL CODE OF PRACTICE FOR HOMEOWNER/OCCUPIER’S - ELECTRICAL WIRING WORK IN DOMESTIC INSTALLATIONS.

Oh FFS!!!!!:bash:

[Dr_seuss25]

I find this all so interesting.
In my mind we have gone above and beyond the race based system that S.A are trying to, somehow, stop. We already have a society with equal rights and have moved forward from that to not only allow Maoris to be in the All Blacks, or any team for that matter, but also to form a Maori team as a heritage example. the fact that this team has been around for so many years proves that NZ is progressing far from the apatied (sp) era that S.A still seem to hang to.
Would they have the same complaint if a NZ asian or samoan team decided to tour S.A along with the All Blacks?
Its just a great example of a piece of archaic thought that has somehow found relevance again in a society that has passed the creator.

[HenryDorsetCase]

This will make you laugh. Or cry. From the NEW ZEALAND ELECTRICAL CODE OF PRACTICE FOR HOMEOWNER/OCCUPIER’S - ELECTRICAL WIRING WORK IN DOMESTIC INSTALLATIONS.

have some bling. I am printing that out and its going on our wee noticeboard thing at work. If I lived in "The Castle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcLXDF0ZJ3g)"* it would be going "straight to the poooool room"

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WcLXDF0ZJ3g&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WcLXDF0ZJ3g&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>



*the best Australian film EVER. Apart from Mad Max maybe.

[fire eyes]

hmmmmm ...

Personally .. I would like to see Rugby scrapped altogether!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But that would be rather unpatriotic of me eh .. :eek5:

[The Stranger]

Hahahaha....the best response so far. Just trying to get my head around the concept though.

We have girly coffee runs because we dont want to get our arses kicked? Take it international I say :yes:

Saving the planet there mate. I put 2 concepts in the one post.

[firecracker]

Bloody rugby........NZ's fundamental fuck up of all time!

Why not send a Maori team across to the redneck South Africans to try and poison?

In all seriousness, an all Maori team is good for Public Relations:):spanking:

[Max Preload]

have some bling. I am printing that out and its going on our wee noticeboard thing at work. If I lived in "The Castle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcLXDF0ZJ3g)"* it would be going "straight to the poooool room"

*the best Australian film EVER. Apart from Mad Max maybe.

Glad you didn't mention 'Priscilla'. :buggerd:

I prefer 'The Castle' over 'Mad Max' though. So many quotable quotes.

Darryl Kerrigan: "Suffer in ya jocks!"

Darryl Kerrigan: "Tell 'em he's dreamin!"

Darryl Kerrigan: "How's the serenity? So much serenity..."

Darryl Kerrigan: "See that chimney. Fake."
Valuer: "What's it there for?"
Darryl Kerrigan: "Chaaaaarm!"

Darryl Keerigan: "We're goin' to Bonnie Doon! We're goin' to Bonnie Doon!"
Sal Kerrigan: "Darryl!"
Darryl Kerrigan: "We're goin' to Bonnie Doon! We're goin' to Bonnie Doon!"

Anyway... :Offtopic:

[peasea]

This will make you laugh. Or cry. From the NEW ZEALAND ELECTRICAL CODE OF PRACTICE FOR HOMEOWNER/OCCUPIER’S - ELECTRICAL WIRING WORK IN DOMESTIC INSTALLATIONS.

I'm just off to hang myself.

[Trudes]

I'm just off to hang myself.

Can we have that translated into Maori please?;)

[peasea]

Can we have that translated into Maori please?;)


Certainly:

Kopa nutty iwi fucker hangi

[merv]

This will make you laugh. Or cry. From the NEW ZEALAND ELECTRICAL CODE OF PRACTICE FOR HOMEOWNER/OCCUPIER’S - ELECTRICAL WIRING WORK IN DOMESTIC INSTALLATIONS.

Fantastic I can feel the "spiritual element, active, tapu" coming off the phase wire as I type this and I always thought it was Trudes charm.