Fisher & Paykel my arse...

[firecracker]

Fisher & Paykel's resident fat cat was on telly the other night pissing and moaning about how hard the company's been hit by the global recession.

NZ's are, in general, brand loyal consumers. The decision to shaft kiwi's out of work and shift to China not so long ago was, on their part a particularly poor move. The grass really isn't greener on the other side.

I recently upgraded my kitchen whitewear and the badges read 'mitsubishi' for this exact reason.

It shits me that the government are considering bailing the company out with public funds. Insult to injury.

[Skyryder]

Fisher & Paykel's resident fat cat was on telly the other night pissing and moaning about how hard the company's been hit by the global recession.

NZ's are, in general, brand loyal consumers. The decision to shaft kiwi's out of work and shift to China not so long ago was, on their part a particularly poor move. The grass really isn't greener on the other side.

I recently upgraded my kitchen whitewear and the badges read 'mitsubishi' for this exact reason.

It shits me that the government are considering bailing the company out with public funds. Insult to injury.


Yep I think they were the ones who pushed the employment contracts calling it employment flexibility. Don't own any Fisher and Paykill for the same reason. And believe me not done lightly as I try and purchase NZ made if possible.

Skyryder

[Swampdonkey]

9 years of liarbour forced them offshore. 1600 jobs still here to protect,not to mention the hundreds of jobs, contracters,truckies etc to protect........then i guess other iconic names can start lineing up ....telecom,flectchers .....we are fucked,no doubt gonna be a bumpy ride

[peasea]

Fisher & Paykel's resident fat cat was on telly the other night pissing and moaning about how hard the company's been hit by the global recession.

NZ's are, in general, brand loyal consumers. The decision to shaft kiwi's out of work and shift to China not so long ago was, on their part a particularly poor move. The grass really isn't greener on the other side.

I recently upgraded my kitchen whitewear and the badges read 'mitsubishi' for this exact reason.

It shits me that the government are considering bailing the company out with public funds. Insult to injury.

We also bought Mitsy, bloody great. Quiet, well priced and it even keeps things cold!

[Ixion]

Perhaps they should try applying to the governments of Mexico or Thailand for assistance.

They are no longer a New Zealand company so should not expect any special treatment on that basis.

If there is a valid case for nationalisation to keep jobs, then I am all for that. But let it be nationalisation , not a handout. And the compensation value of a bankrupt company is zero. What we do *NOT* need is another fiasco like the Labour government of NZ Rail.

[The Pastor]

as bad as this sounds, nz is not an economic manufacture of products. so instead of forcing companies to suffer with trying to make it work in a country where it cannot work (on large scale manufacturing) you should be looking at how we can change in order to produce large scale manufacturing OR decide "no we are not, and cannot be good at this" and find an alternative industry that we can excel at.

but thats way too hard right.

[Ixion]

But F&P did make it work for over 50 years. Including recent years since Rogernomics.

So do quite a few NZ companies. Navamn, Racom , the dude in Christchurch. The boat jet engine thing, quite a few others , and lots I don't know about.

You must distinguish between mass large scale manufacture of commodity items (plastic knickknacks) and skilled high tech manufacture . Which we are actually quite good at.

[Hitcher]

Last I heard, the government hadn't decided to give F&P any money.

[nz_rider]

there is a need to do a big weigh up of pros and cons. at the end of the day fisher and paykel appliances is making a huge loss. if they continue to do so then they are going to start bringing down the rest of the F & P group. their healthcare group is doing well.
keeping facilities down in dunedin is probably not the best idea for them. it is not a viable market at the moment. and unfortunatly we really do have to think about the current market a lot. yes the economy will recover eventually but when the country is facing massive financial loss can we really afford to bailout a company which has got themselves into massive debts over the past few years. this is not a recent thing with F & P, it is on going. there shares have lost most of their value which is showing that confidence is falling in them. they are no longer able to hold there place in the european and american markets.
why should the NZ taxpayer be the ones that have to bail out a company that is being brought down by a few highly paid big wigs who have clearly fucked up somewhere.
not all of the financial problems for the company can be put down to the current economic market.
thats my two cents anyway:angry2::angry2:

[Ixion]

They should be nationalised anyway, for having the impertinence to suggest it.

[98tls]

Business is business i guess,whilst social welfare would have been one of there best customers the numbers just dont stack up so off they go.

[merv]

Doubt I'll ever buy their products again now they aren't made in NZ and their point of difference is gone.

[reofix]

The rot set in 2 decades ago... in a protected market f and p were basically all we had ... they exploited that to the max ... 1200 dollar washing machines in 1989 ffs... customers did their r&d... experimental crap that didnt work properly or for long... hope they go broke ... sooner is better ... Yeah LG and Samsung ... cheap and reliable and dont try and play the iconic crap bullshit

[98tls]

Would any of us buy a NZ made motorcycle (forget the Britten it was never going to happen)?knowing the Kiwi work ethic i wouldnt,be like going back to buying Trumpets made during the strikes.

[reofix]

helens crew had us all cheering on the great nz worker in her kiwimade ads (shades of tractor factory no 2) ,... but of course we all ignored it and got the cheap imported stuff (that was built properly) from wherever...

[Manxman]

(Some) problems associated with government support of private companies:

1) why (do they have a sustainable business model even if more $$ are thrown at them [a la US car manufacturers, which don't]. If they do fail, won't someone take them over anyway and run a leaner business model with the same branding)?

2) what for (to service debt, acquire equity [a la Air NZ] or just carry on paying the fat cats' annual bonuses [a la AIG)?

3) where does it (the financial support) end (1,2,3,6,12 months? Forever?)?

4) how does the govt measure how well the bale out is being used, and when - as the actress said to the bishop - should it pull out? I had to sit down in disbelief just after Christmas, when a US Treasury spokesman got up in front of the world's media and admitted that they didn't know how the (first) $700m had been spent. Fark, I think that if I had just dished out that sort of dosh, I'd want to know exactly where it had gone on a weekly, if not daily basis. What-A-Dick.

5) when (tomorrow, next week, next year? ie when they're almost in the poo, or completely up to their eyeballs?)?

6) who gets it and what criteria are used (F&P, State Ins, Farmers, Rebel Sport, etc [not that they're all in the poo yet]).

7) return to 1) Why?

It's a really tricky one.

I don't agree that govt should support private enterprise directly, but at times like this keeping people in jobs has to be priority, cos if people aren't in jobs, they aren't spending, which reduces retail demand, which takes down businesses, which creates redundancies. Full circle. And off it goes all over again.

The other thing that commentators are now starting to talk about is consumer confidence. If people are pessimistic, then they'll stop spending regardless of whether they're in a job or not. Bugger.

However, how do you instill confidence into people to make then spend again - now that's gonna require some real leadership from someone...maybe it's time the Big Fella paid us a second visit.

Therefore, the biggest trick is to keep people parting with their $$$.

Some in socialist Europe are talking about there needing to be a fundamental change to the capitalist model, and to be fair they're probably not wrong (I've been telling people that the days of capitalism are numbered, for about the past three years). I mean, who looks up at bankers and financiers that got the world into this mess and doesn't say "Greedy bastards. If only I could get my hands on them".

Those people will, however, rot in Hell. Of that I have no doubt, and I'll be first in the queue stoking the fires.

PS I'm a pessimist on this one (did ya guess:innocent:). The world economy is in complete freefall presently and has a looong way to go yet. NZ has only just walked up to the edge of the precipice and is looking over the edge...:gob: I'd give it 12 months or less before we start to realise we're in deep hole, and we ain't got no ladder.

Finally, an unstable economic world, plus growing envy and uncertainty over scarce resources could lead us down some really dangerous paths.

[I'm off to take a happy pill or five]:sunny::sunny:

[munster]

maybe it's time the Big Fella paid us a second visit
Santa? The kids will be happy I spose. . . . .

[Forest]

as bad as this sounds, nz is not an economic manufacture of products. so instead of forcing companies to suffer with trying to make it work in a country where it cannot work (on large scale manufacturing) you should be looking at how we can change in order to produce large scale manufacturing OR decide "no we are not, and cannot be good at this" and find an alternative industry that we can excel at.

but thats way too hard right.

Bullshit. There is definitely room for intelligent and profitable manufacturing in New Zealand. Just look at successful New Zealand companies like Hubbard Foods.

Talk of a predominantly services based economy is retarded. We cannot build an economy that is based on cutting each other's hair.

[MisterD]

But F&P did make it work for over 50 years. Including recent years since Rogernomics.

So do quite a few NZ companies. Navamn, Racom , the dude in Christchurch. The boat jet engine thing, quite a few others , and lots I don't know about.

You must distinguish between mass large scale manufacture of commodity items (plastic knickknacks) and skilled high tech manufacture . Which we are actually quite good at.

Navman mostly contract manufactures in various Asian locations, Rakon have recently started manufacturing in China...don't know which dude you mean in ChCh? Icebreaker use NZ wool, but manufacture in China...

The fact is that unless you're doing some high-end niche-y thing it's f-ing difficult to compete with the likes of China. What F&P, Navman, Rakon, Gallaghers etc have shown is that what we really do well here is design and engineering, why else do you think 'merkin GPS giant Trimble have a facility in Christchurch?

Unfortunately F&P are in a bit of poo because they decided to expand into Europe and US and got caught on the hop (just like everybody else) as those markets went into recession and their debt multiplied as the exchange rate went south...they're an otherwise solid, profitable, company.

What JK has said is that the government favour commercial solutions for commercial problems, but would look at what they can do to help, possibly with changes to legislation or regulations. Would you rather that, or Clark's ho-hum "It's the way of the world."?

[firecracker]

Some top points here and certainly food for thought.

There's no doubt that businesses can do very well in NZ, particularly with the notion of the loyal customer. I know tons of people who would prefer to buy NZ made as opposed to spending their hard earnt cash on something manufactured offshore, even if it does cost a little more. Yes, something needs to be done about regulating cost at government level too, there's a fine line between loyalty and businesses exploiting that through the price tag.

As a tax payer, I'd be happy to see money put into help with sustaining the local business market. It's too late once they've gotten themselves offshore and in the shit, they can go bust for all I care.

Why didn't F&P put a design/engineer/marketing team together to make the most of national consumerism? For instance, with the new awareness on heating and sustainability, Kiwi's would've been all over it and happy to have F&P on their gear.

As mentioned F&P have been around for years and have lost a bloody lot from moving. Shareholder confidence, consumer confidence, their pedigree, the list goes on.........

They will end up tits up. And there will be no tears in my heart for them.

[pzkpfw]

My previous and current F&P dishwashers have convinced me to try another brand next time.

I hope the designers of the front panels and door latches were the first people fired.


Current issue:

Does anyone know where the flood sensor is on a F&P Nautilus or Nemo dishwasher? I keep getting F1 (flood) errors during the cycle and the bloody thing stops.

Doing dishes by hand really really sucks.

[Beemer]

Yes, and you would have some sympathy if their prices dropped when they moved production offshore but they didn't. And from letters to the DomPost recently, the quality hasn't matched the NZ-made models.

I certainly don't think I'll bother supporting them by buying their products in the future.

[davereid]

Even the biggest trees in the forest should be allowed to fall over.

If there is sufficient sun, new trees will feed and thrive instead of rotting in the shade.

If there is not enough sun, trees shouldn't grow there anyway, another species will be sure to find its place.

[Beemer]

Even the biggest trees in the forest should be allowed to fall over.

If there is sufficient sun, new trees will feed and thrive instead of rotting in the shade.

If there is not enough sun, trees shouldn't grow there anyway, another species will be sure to find its place.

Very well put - isn't that what business - and indeed life - is all about. If you're good enough and have all the right processes in place, you usually do well. If you don't, then you probably don't deserve the success in the first place.

If the government bails out F & P, where does it stop? Can they come back in a year and ask for more if they are still in the shit? And what about other companies - can they all come with their hands out or does it have to be an 'iconic' company to qualify for a bail out? So maybe Canterbury Apparel would qualify but not Zambesi, etc.

[=cJ=]

Even the biggest trees in the forest should be allowed to fall over.

If there is sufficient sun, new trees will feed and thrive instead of rotting in the shade.

If there is not enough sun, trees shouldn't grow there anyway, another species will be sure to find its place.

Problem is, a company is a bit more than a tree, in that if a tree falls it's an individual. When a company falls, it can stuff up several hundred individuals if it's a big enough company.

You've then got to either have a good welfare system in place to get these workers through until another company pops up, or the workers have to have a decent saving ethic to get through lean times. Given the lack of the latter in NZ, we're relying on the former, unless NZ has a pretty big shift in how we spend and save...

[discotex]

I'd rather see the government give F&P some bridging finance rather than hand out the same money in benefits to everyone that's made redundant.

If they're willing to be audited to show they can survive and then pay back the loan in 2-5 years it's all good.

If auditing shows they're already totally fucked then let them fail or nationalise as a last resort.

EDIT: I imagine Feltex shareholders must be spitting tacks over this

[James Deuce]

Does anyone know where the flood sensor is on a F&P Nautilus or Nemo dishwasher? I keep getting F1 (flood) errors during the cycle and the bloody thing stops.



Ask Whirlpool. They made them.

Not only do F&P rip Kiwis off blind they pass off other conpany's hugely inferior product as their own. I have an F&P fridge that has lasted 20 years. I have an F&P dishwasher bought 3 years ago that has been replaced twice, the last time with a shop floor demo model that is scratched to buggery. I'm supposed to be thankful because it was replaced out of warranty. We''l ignore the 5 control panels and the pump that have been replaced under warranty as well shall we?

There's more to manufacturing than cheap labour.

[Max Preload]

I imagine Feltex shareholders must be spitting tacks over this

Indeed... at least Feltex were using NZ made materials. At least, I think they were...


Ask Whirlpool. They made them.

Not only do F&P rip Kiwis off blind they pass off other conpany's hugely inferior product as their own. I have an F&P fridge that has lasted 20 years. I have an F&P dishwasher bought 3 years ago that has been replaced twice, the last time with a shop floor demo model that is scratched to buggery. I'm supposed to be thankful because it was replaced out of warranty. We''l ignore the 5 control panels and the pump that have been replaced under warranty as well shall we?

You should have hammered fuck out of them under the CGA.


There's more to manufacturing than cheap labour.

Yes. To F&P there's planned obsolescence. I know a guy who used to be involved in durability testing for F&P and he says that they would work extremely hard to ensure that their products did not last unduly. Then there's the poor wages because of the 'prestige' of working for such an 'icon'. Hopefully, now the 'presitige' of working there is diminished, some of the lemmings will wake up to the fact it means nothing.

[malfunconz]

if the gov' gonna give money away were do you sign up.

[toymachine]

Beyond the Kelvinator series i wouldn't look at fisher n' paykel.. i mean what self respecting bogan doesn't have a Kelvinator fridge in the home/garage/workshop :)

[The Pastor]

Bullshit. There is definitely room for intelligent and profitable manufacturing in New Zealand. Just look at successful New Zealand companies like Hubbard Foods.

Talk of a predominantly services based economy is retarded. We cannot build an economy that is based on cutting each other's hair.
if you read my post, i said we have to look at how to change in order to do that, you moronic mummy's boy muppet

[davereid]

Some in socialist Europe are talking about there needing to be a fundamental change to the capitalist model, and to be fair they're probably not wrong (I've been telling people that the days of capitalism are numbered, for about the past three years). I mean, who looks up at bankers and financiers that got the world into this mess and doesn't say "Greedy bastards. If only I could get my hands on them".


Great post, I completely agree that we are only on a gentle slope, and that the depths of the hole are yet to be apparent.

However, capitalisim has not caused this, nor have private commercial banks.

The seeds for this mess were sown by central (government) controlled banks.

Ask yourself "How can it be that if credit is in short supply, why is it that interest rates are dropping ?"

The answer is too complex to be answered in a few words, but essentially credit expansion is the cause of the current problem. The US treasury in particular was determined not to allow the US to suffer a series of small recessions. So it continued to add credit to the economy with a low cash rate. This found its way into the economy by way of US bonds etc, which then meant US commercial banks were well stocked with cash. Which they had to loan to make money.

And US consumers borrowed, and bought, and speculated, and got massively wealthy as property values climbed.

It was of course inevitable, that one day, the market would realise that a 1/8 acre section, was actually not worth $500k.

[geoffm]

Good to see that F&P are keeping up their fine traditions of having good products, totally foobared by flaws.
Our F&P dishwasher lasted 3 weeks befire it died - new computer which took 2 weeks to fix. Then the dispenser just out of warranty - another computer dying which controls the flap. Just chucked the powder in loose for years. Then the latch died - only way to get it to work was to stuff a tea towel in the latch to keep it in tight. Put up with that for 6 months before a second hand Bosch came up form our office renovations at work - much, much better than the F&P was even when new. It actually dries the dishes, is quieter and washes better.
Then there is the F&P chest freezer with ABS plastic handles on the baskets - that get brittle when they get cold - say subzero temperatures.
Then there is our now deceased 10YO upright freezer that had plastic fronts to the pull out drawers that fell off when pulliing the drawer out, so everything fell out on the ground. The replacement Westinghouse is much better - and cheaper than F&P.
To be fair, our Smartdrive soldiers on, with some minor repairs over the years. The drier still goes but at 10 years old is getting reatlty. They certainly don't last like they used to.
Geoff

[Ixion]

Some years ago (say 20 or 30) F&P made good quality products that were , in some cases, world leaders.

About 25 years ago we bought a very early Gentle Annie eashing machine (Mrs Ixion did - she did not buy it on any specific basis, just we needed a new washing machine, and she always bought F&P).

It was a very good machine. Ran for 25 years , only needed the pump cleared a few times (bloody hairpins!) and a couple of new hoses.

The build quality was good, and the electronics and the computer controlled motor were right up with the play, if not world leaders.

About a year ago (just before they closed down in NZ), it sprang a leak that wasn't going to get fixed . Fair enough, 25 years of service is pretty good, I reckon we got our money's worth. So, Mrs Ixion trotted out and bought a new washing machine . A F&P , of course. Nothing else considered, it was just what you did .

I was very disappointed at the very marked reduction in quality. The materials were cheapened way down, the build quality was way inferior. I have to say it hasn't given any problems yet, but I'm not expecting it to last another 25 years

It is a mistake to suppose that the only way to compete in a market is to be the cheapest. Which is the mistake F&P made.

Consider Italian bikes. Ducati certainly aren't the cheapest. Nor are MV Agusta. Or even Moto Guzzi. Nor are any of them "perfect". Yet people buy them and pay a premium.

If F&P had stuck to that market, and not gotten all big headed , they would not be in this mess. By trying to take on the US market and pitching into a market with price as the differentiator they shat on themselves. (The reason they drove by price is because that is the only way to get a fast entry into a market)

Will the present machine's repalcement be a F&P ? No. Mrs Ixion no longer approves of F&P. It will be a Mitsubishi. Because my Pajero is made by Mitsubishi. No, I don't quite follow it either. But once she had recovered from her disappointment at finding that Nissan ( in Mrs Ixion's eyes the best brand in the world , because they make the Nissan Sunny) did not make washing machines, she settled on Mitsubishi.

[Max Preload]

Consider Italian bikes. Ducati certainly aren't the cheapest. Nor are MV Agusta. Or even Moto Guzzi. Nor are any of them "perfect". Yet people buy them and pay a premium.

But to be fair, there's little gloating value for the weekend warriors, born agains, accountants & lawyers in having a high quality dishwasher. Except for maybe this one.

:drool:

[Ixion]

Dunno. SMEG seem to do that. I've seen it in advertisments "kitchen fully SMEG fitted out" and such like. Guys it wouldn't mean anything but women gloat to other women about that sort of stuff.

PS. I think it's SMEG. I have no idea what SMEG is, I'm not much into kitchenware. If smeg is something indecent then I've got the name wrong.

[SixPackBack]

Dunno. SMEG seem to do that. I've seen it in advertisments "kitchen fully SMEG fitted out" and such like. Guys it wouldn't mean anything but women gloat to other women about that sort of stuff.

PS. I think it's SMEG. I have no idea what SMEG is, I'm not much into kitchenware. If smeg is something indecent then I've got the name wrong.

SMEG is short for smegma. SMEG is a common word of derision [used predominantly in the U.K] which is not surprising when you consider smegma is penile foreskin cheese.:eek5:

[Ixion]

So why do chicks think it such a good thing to have in their kitchens?

[trustme]

F&P market to the top end in the States , the volumes are relatively small but it had a reached a level of market share that justified a plant in the US. The motor lines sent 90% of their production to Whirlpool Ohio hence the reason for the plant going to Ohio, after all why ship 90% to the US , better to ship 10% back to NZ.
The quality of product has gone down , doing their R&D on the end user is a valid point, some of their stuff has been sent out way under developed, it may be smart & leading edge but it aint debugged so if you buy F&P buy 2nd or 3rd generation not their new ranges
I scratch my head at some of what happens at F&P , penny wise & pound foolish comes to mind so I am not suprised if their relocation budget has blown out.
If the govt bails them & have grave misgivings.it should only be done on a commercial basis, F&P has been steadily shedding jobs for some time, if the bail out means that business direction is no longer commercially driven but politically driven we will only prolong the demise at the taxpayers expense.If the jobs were going anyway & the business direction was in fact the correct one then maybe bail it so they can finish the job bit it should only be as an absolute last resort. Many of the management nave been developed from within the company, they have never had experience elsewhere, they are a little cosseted & blinkered ,they almost believe their own BS about being an icon, this is their wakeup call
I do not, nor have I ever worked for F&P although I have contracted to them on accasions over a 25 year period

[davereid]

While holding his hand up for government money to save jobs, it's interesting to note that the chief executive pays himself about $7,000,000 P.A. and has for many years.

We can't be sure what the half dozen not-quite-as-chief-but-not-indians are paid, but it would appear that by slashing the salaries of management, F&P could fund its own way out of this mess.

Slashing their own salaries, is of course what the fellow who runs the dairy, local garage and lawn mowing franchise are doing, yet they will be asked to put their hand in their pocket to keep F&P executives fat.

Edit: $9.8 million is the figue for the top 5 execs. Bongards salary is not declared

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/business/IndustrySectorsNews/fi20983.htm

[pzkpfw]

Frack!

I know it's not that simple.

And I know it's not the way things work.

And I do consider myself a right-wing-capitalist not a left-wing-socialist (and, yes, I know that that's not that simple)...

But it just struck me that an F&P exec could pay him/herself "just" $1,000,000 per year and the other $6,000,000 would fund 120 people at $50,000 each.

Eeep.

[ManDownUnder]

helens crew had us all cheering on the great nz worker in her kiwimade ads (shades of tractor factory no 2) ,... but of course we all ignored it and got the cheap imported stuff (that was built properly) from wherever...

That'd be The Warehouse...!

Exactly right. Typical mentality thet "Everyone needs to buy NZ made to keep Kiwi's in work - except me... I found a good price over here and can make a few bucks flogging it off cheap."

Manufacturers in NZ have a few issues in NZ that simply can't be worked around
1) Small local market
2) We're a bloody long way from major markets.

Heavy or bulky goods will cost a lot to get to our major markets unless we (gasp) make them more locally, or to be precise, optimise the total cost of delivery (manufacture + transport).

It's not hard to do - and I'll bet a good number of shareholders in F&P gleefully encouraged cheaper manufacturing offshore as a strategy.

[vifferman]

My previous and current F&P dishwashers have convinced me to try another brand next time.
I had been a loyal buyer of F&P products: four washing machines, two refrigerators, a freezer, two dishwashers, etc. (Part of this was due to my wife's uncle being a close personal friend of Maurice Paykel, which enabled us to get a cheaper washing machine years ago when we were short of cash). However, our current fridge (F&P) is not a good design, and I regret buying it, and in future will buy based on features etc., not brand.
Our current d/w is Dishlex, oven is Westinghouse, cooktop is Whirlpool. My mother has - after owning about five F&P dishwashers (mainly because they are one of the few that have cold AND hot water inlets) - finally switched to another brand (Electrolux, IIRC). Every time she's bought an F&P, she's ended up whinging about how useless it is, and finally saw sense.

I dunno how I feel about NZ manufacturers. It's nice to see NZ made goods on the market if they're of good quality, and I don't mind paying a few more shekeldollars for them. But manufacturing in NZ was effectively shafted when the Gummint decided years ago to adopt a free market economy, and progressively abolish tariffs, import restrictions, etc. Kinda mental when even the strongest economies in the world have tariffs and protectionism.

[ManDownUnder]

SMEG is short for smegma. SMEG is a common word of derision [used predominantly in the U.K] which is not surprising when you consider smegma is penile foreskin cheese.:eek5:

Blue vein?

[pete376403]

Edit: $9.8 million is the figue for the top 5 execs. Bongards salary is not declared

The 2008 annual report identified Mr Bongard as earning nearly $1.2 million a year for his work as managing director and chief executive
http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/43628/bongard-executives-share-firm039s-pain

[Forest]

I had
I dunno how I feel about NZ manufacturers. It's nice to see NZ made goods on the market if they're of good quality, and I don't mind paying a few more shekeldollars for them. But manufacturing in NZ was effectively shafted when the Gummint decided years ago to adopt a free market economy, and progressively abolish tariffs, import restrictions, etc. Kinda mental when even the strongest economies in the world have tariffs and protectionism.

Bollocks. The strongest economies in the world have negotiated free trade agreements between themselves.

[The Stranger]

I don't agree that govt should support private enterprise directly, but at times like this keeping people in jobs has to be priority, cos if people aren't in jobs, they aren't spending, which reduces retail demand, which takes down businesses, which creates redundancies. Full circle. And off it goes all over again.



I hear you. I can't quite understand how for example propping up the American Auto industry (and by inference F&P) will help things.
What will big auto do with the money?
Produce more cars to not sell?
Pay their employees to buy their cars? - actually that one appears to make more sense.

Aren't they better to stimulate demand, rather than supply? If they stimulate demand, supply will surely follow.

I believe they would be better off putting money into building infrustructure. They have huge infrustructure problems there (USA). They will get the projects done at the cheapest rate possible, stimulate demand and be in excellent shape for when the economy rebounds.

[Swoop]

My previous and current F&P dishwashers have convinced me to try another brand next time.
I hope the designers of the front panels and door latches were the first people fired.
F&P. I fully support NZ made products and prefer to purchase them whenever possible... BUT F&P is a waste of space.
Multiple issues with family appliances have convinced me of this over the years.

A work colleague has two dish drawers, one above the other. The top one works fine yet the bottom one is a waste of time and is a storage drawer only. Something about a deflector panel that has been designed and fitted to direct water towards the electrical system dosen't seem right.:scratch:

A recent shopping expedition for a washing machine was interesting. I feel that "commercial" grade appliances are the only option.

[pete376403]

We also have a F&P dual dish drawer. Both washers work perfectly, no water going where it shouldn't. F&P fridge, F&P auto washer (both less than 5 years) and a 35 year old F&P dryer all work perfectly. The dryer has had it's drive belt replaced once and I may have replaced the timer control.

Not everything they make is crappy.

[riffer]

We splurged out 3 years ago in June. Did a deal with the local Newbolds for cash and bought F&P (cause Gini wanted F&P).

Nautilus Dishwasher (the expensive white enamel one)
Saffron Oven (ceramic top)
Smartdrive 6kg washing machine
380 litre family fridge
The biggest clothes dryer they had.

Only problems so far in three years:

Nautilus dishwasher - front plastic handle is cracked which makes it hard to open the dishwasher using handle. Doesn't affect performance.

Saffron oven. Right front element control blew. Fixed under warranty. However unimpressed with the enamel. At the front edge its wearing badly - all the shine's gone rough. And we've dropped a couple of things on the edge and it's got a couple of nasty big chips. Doesn't affect performance.

Fridge - in the first couple of months used to beep randomly and flash the control panel lights. Tracked down to a blocked vent tube - fixed under warranty.

So, overall they've been pretty good. I don't think the oven will outlast it's predecessor - a 1950s vintage Kelvinator monstrosity which Gini loved.

[reofix]

They both used their monopoly positions to screw us for decades...
They both want govt help when the shit hits the fan...
They both want us to buy the iconic bullshit...
They both treat their customers as fools...
They both have low levels of customer satisfaction...

they both suck!!!

[Finn]

Our very own Firecracker may have cost FPA millions.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10560296&pnum=3

Personally, I think the company is sound. It has a very strong balance sheet and has just been caught out by the global financial crisis. (i.e. NZ dollar, reduced sales & realisation of cost savings in new plants).

Time to buy some shares I think. (Remember this post and quote me in the years to come)

[Ixion]

Our very own Firecracker may have cost FPA millions.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10560296&pnum=3

Personally, I think the company is sound. It has a very strong balance sheet and has just been caught out by the global financial crisis. (i.e. NZ dollar, reduced sales & realisation of cost savings in new plants).

Time to buy some shares I think. (Remember this post and quote me in the years to come)

True, but at present it has a major cash flow problem. Whether it can weather that or not is the question

[NZsarge]

a company that is being brought down by a few highly paid big wigs who have clearly fucked up somewhere.
not all of the financial problems for the company can be put down to the current economic market.

That's my sentiments on the Feltex saga too.

[NZsarge]

We also have a F&P dual dish drawer. Both washers work perfectly, no water going where it shouldn't. F&P fridge, F&P auto washer (both less than 5 years) and a 35 year old F&P dryer all work perfectly. The dryer has had it's drive belt replaced once and I may have replaced the timer control.

Not everything they make is crappy.

Yeah i'd agree, I don't think they'll be topping any customer satisfaction poles anytime soon but none of the F&P stuff here has caused any issues to speak of.

[James Deuce]

Our very own Firecracker may have cost FPA millions.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10560296&pnum=3

Personally, I think the company is sound. It has a very strong balance sheet and has just been caught out by the global financial crisis. (i.e. NZ dollar, reduced sales & realisation of cost savings in new plants).

Time to buy some shares I think. (Remember this post and quote me in the years to come)

The company is sound, but the product is bollocks. Unreliable junk.

[merv]

Our very own Firecracker may have cost FPA millions.


Yeah but they say he admits he is only an L plate rider :eek5:

[spacemonkey]

Blue vein?

Feta? :crazy:




Personally I have never had problems with any F&P product I've owned, They all worked perfectly. Every time I had products by Simpson, bosh, Westinghouse and Mitsubishi (worst fridge I've ever used) they have been utter crap! :argh:

So later this year when I hopefully upgrade the oven it will be another F&P job.

[firecracker]

ooooh, the controversy;) I'm a she not a he:whistle:

[pritch]

I've bought F & P in the past soley on the basis it was a local manufacturer.

Not now though. I'd have to at least consider L G who are supporting motorcycle racing...

[pzkpfw]

My previous and current F&P dishwashers have convinced me to try another brand next time.

I hope the designers of the front panels and door latches were the first people fired.


Current issue:

Does anyone know where the flood sensor is on a F&P Nautilus or Nemo dishwasher? I keep getting F1 (flood) errors during the cycle and the bloody thing stops.

Doing dishes by hand really really sucks.

Sorry for the bump, but I couldn't find an edit button for the original post, and wanted to add these details in case a googler or KB searcher finds it useful:

Finally had a guy come take a look.

Turns out the flooding was due to the wheels on the sides, for the top dish rack. They loosen their mounting bolts, and that lets water into the guts of the dishwasher. All he did was tighten those bolts, and now the thing works and no more F1 flood error. (There is a kit that changes the way the wheels are mounted, that fixes this design fault).

Geez I feel dumb.

While he was there got him to replace the door latch with the new model, as the door didn't close well, and also replace the control panel face (the plastics, not the computer) as the bits the screws screw into were cracking off (and also one of the mounts for the door latch) and I didn't want to do my bolt-through-the-panel bodge again.

Latch parts = $27
Panel parts = $67