Dubious journalism

[Naki Rat]

Local newspaper in the Naki has this (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dailynews/4856270a6002.html) as the front page lead story.

The "You could hear his bike before you saw him coming," quote together with the witness's quote released from the Mokau cop put a pretty damning bias on the news story. Trial by media ? :bash:

[Bob]

The other comment... "Speed MAY well have been a contributing factor"... said someone who happened to be in the general area.

Sad to see the family has had a double tragedy... but note that someone dying in a car doesn't carry the same "Shock! Horror! Ban them!" rhetoric.

Sadly, we have to deal with biased reporting being allowed in the newspapers - and national ones at that. Read this piece from a respectable national daily in the UK, The Independent:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/james-daley-facts-suggest-that-letting-bikers-sidle-up-alongside-cyclists-in-bus-lanes-is-a-recipe-for-disaster-1606977.html

Pretty sure the 'facts' he quotes are from the 1970s! Bikes in the UK have to meet the same emissions standard (Euro III) as cars, and will be expected to meet the even stricter Euro IV or V when it comes in.

And they wonder why bikers feel alienated?

[Slyer]

Sounds like they were just trying to fill the article as well.

[Tank]

The other comment "Speed may well have been a contributing factor"... said someone who happened to be in the general area.


And that shows the bias of KB.

The person who said that was not in the general area - but was a witness.

I agree its a tragedy for the person involved and his family - but as a general rule witnesses have nothing to gain by lying.

If they say he was going too fast for the conditions - he probally was.

[tommygun]

Trail by Media? I don't think so. If taken together those comments have a different spin. IMO The first was an assumption by a motorist/witness and the second statement was a "familiar" memory by a sibling.

[Bob]

And that shows the bias of KB.

The person who said that was not in the general area - but was a witness.

I agree its a tragedy for the person involved and his family - but as a general rule witnesses have nothing to gain by lying.

If they say he was going too fast for the conditions - he probally was.

My point was that the witness said speed MAY have been a factor. In his opinion. If it had come from the police and/or an accident assessor, then it would add veracity. As it was, it was a great quote for the newspaper to hang their "shock, horror" angle onto.

Your stance that "he probably was going too fast" does not deal with facts. Nor did the opinion of the witness.

For years in the UK, there has been an anti-bike campaign run by the self-appointed 'Protector of Middle-England', The Daily Mail. Their favourite line is "motorcycles capable of travelling at dangerous speeds up to 100mph"... but on the next page, they will run a car feature, raving about how the car can do 180mph.

Back to the original piece; I think the police were quite right in their other comment, on how MOTORISTS need to pay attention to the conditions. A good comment on their part as it is aimed at ALL road users. Well thought out.

[Tank]

My point was that the witness said speed MAY have been a factor. In his opinion. If it had come from the police and/or an accident assessor, then it would add veracity. As it was, it was a great quote for the newspaper to hang their "shock, horror" angle onto.

Your stance that "he probably was going too fast" does not deal with facts. Nor did the opinion of the witness.



Actually the term "speed may have been a factor" was said my the police after talking to a witness.

So the witness has said something to make the police believe that he may have been going to fast.

The police having looked at the scene at the crash site and spoken to independent witnesses thought enough of it to mention it to the media.

We can either take it at face value - or put out heads in the sand - but sometimes (just sometimes) we are victims of our own actions.

[Fatjim]

Actually "Speed may have been a a factor" means that someone asked the cop whether speed may have been a factor and the only answer is yes, it may. The only way the cop could have said no, was if the investigation had been complete and they had come to the conclusion that speed was not a factor.

Other than that, it means squat, and Bob is right. This is just poor journalism, but it is what we get, pretty much all the time.

[90s]

Apart from the headline, the article does not seem too biased - just basic reporting. The "hear his bike coming" quote was from a relative - although it would be nice to know the tone of questioning - ie. leading questions about the 'speed' etc of the bike. Having said that the guy rode a Busa and you can hear them coming - they sound like a plane taking off. As the guy rode about the fastest and most powerful bike on the planet I would say they could have gone to town on the editorial there - but didn't.


Read this piece from a respectable national daily in the UK, The Independent:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/james-daley-facts-suggest-that-letting-bikers-sidle-up-alongside-cyclists-in-bus-lanes-is-a-recipe-for-disaster-1606977.html

"we still had the buses and taxis to contend with, but given that the drivers of these depend on their licences for their livelihood, they're much less inclined to floor it when they see a clear stretch of road. Unlike motorcyclists."

Yeah, when I floor it my bike generally stops.

"Furthermore, a recent study showed that when motorbikes are allowed to travel in bus lanes, their average speed increases"

Er, this would be WHY they have been allowed in the bus lanes.
(there is a pitiful attempt next to link this to speeding).

As a biker fined once for riding in a bus lane in London I would welcome this (it was in fact allowed in this case and the police where wrong). Also as a cyclist having spent years commuting through London I can attest that only cyclist "wannabies" that don't obey or understand that traffic laws apply to them would find any problem with this.

[Patrick]

Local newspaper in the Naki has this (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dailynews/4856270a6002.html) as the front page lead story.

The "You could hear his bike before you saw him coming," quote together with the witness's quote released from the Mokau cop put a pretty damning bias on the news story. Trial by media ? :bash:

Not at all. He has a noisy exhaust. You can hear em coming for miles. No problem there....


And that shows the bias of KB.

The person who said that was not in the general area - but was a witness.

I agree its a tragedy for the person involved and his family - but as a general rule witnesses have nothing to gain by lying.

If they say he was going too fast for the conditions - he probally was.

Perhaps the witness had been passed by him moments before at warp speed, then crashed out of his sight, and the obvious carnage makes the comment, "speed may have been a factor" quite logical.....

Thats not Nadroj's Busa he was sitting on, is it?

[Dazza]

Thats not Nadroj's Busa he was sitting on, is it? I'd say it was his one,posing in the bar @ Okato. When told of this sad incident as I was hoping on my bike to come home from Paeroa yesterday arvo, Kevins was one of the Blue Busa's I was thinking of, Craigs being the other, Bugger

[Dodger]

Read this piece from a respectable national daily in the UK, The Independent:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/james-daley-facts-suggest-that-letting-bikers-sidle-up-alongside-cyclists-in-bus-lanes-is-a-recipe-for-disaster-1606977.html



So, a group of motorbikes is a gaggle? :lol:

But when you get a gaggle of them

[90s]

So, a group of motorbikes is a gaggle? :lol:

No, its:

- a blur of sportbikes (or scream)
- a rumble of harleys
- a stink of twostrokes
- a blap of dirtbikes
- a tonne of goldwings
- a circus of crusty demons
- a deathwish of litre bikes ridden by noobs
- an embarrasment of ginnies
- an economy of scooters

and the general collective noun for a mix is "a fantasy of bikes"

[Murray]

So "speed may have been a factor". Can't refute that as I do not know of many vehicle accidents that happen when the vehicles are stationery.

Its highly lightly a true comment unless he was stopped at the time

[Slyer]

No, its:

- a blur of sportbikes (or scream)
- a rumble of harleys
- a stink of twostrokes
- a blap of dirtbikes
- a tonne of goldwings
- a circus of crusty demons
- a deathwish of litre bikes ridden by noobs
- an embarrasment of ginnies
- an economy of scooters

and the general collective noun for a mix is "a fantasy of bikes"
A swarm of two fiddys. :)

[Zoolander]

Apart from the headline, the article does not seem too biased - just basic reporting. The "hear his bike coming" quote was from a relative - although it would be nice to know the tone of questioning - ie. leading questions about the 'speed' etc of the bike. Having said that the guy rode a Busa and you can hear them coming - they sound like a plane taking off. As the guy rode about the fastest and most powerful bike on the planet I would say they could have gone to town on the editorial there - but didn't.

Very good point, it was actually a very well written and sensitive article. They could have quite easily titled it "Speedster dies on worlds fastest production motorcycle" and turned it into yet another anti bike tirade. The fact that they didn't and that they aimed the safety message at all motorists speaks volumes.

[nadroj]

Busa paint jobs are similar but change from year to year. Craigs is more silver with blue & mine is more blue with silver.
Scorpions on both bikes are not that loud but sound good wound up.....
Thanks to those that were concerned for my welfare!
RIP Craig.

[dipshit]

So..???

Most motorcycle fatalities are from motorcyclists failing to take corners all on their own.

Is this some kind of surprise to you fuckwits or something...???

Stop listening to all of the BRONZ bullshit that cars or the roads are responsible for everything.

[Bob]

Very good point, it was actually a very well written and sensitive article. They could have quite easily titled it "Speedster dies on worlds fastest production motorcycle" and turned it into yet another anti bike tirade. The fact that they didn't and that they aimed the safety message at all motorists speaks volumes.

I felt the police message at the end was very good, as it aimed the safety call to all motorists. Well done on their part for not causing sensationalism.

[Skyryder]

'May have' along with 'could well have been,' is an opinion and not a statement of fact. You can say almost anything you like providing you comments are an opinion. Once you start stating 'was' then the statement becomes a 'stated fact.' Most comments by the police will be stated as an opinion before the facts have been established. It's just prudent on their part.

Skyryder

[Patrick]

He hit "tar bleed" in the wet. Fact.

BRONZ could be right in this one..... Avoidable............

[dipshit]

He hit "tar bleed" in the wet. Fact.

BRONZ could be right in this one..... Avoidable............

Avoidable as in that all roads in NZ get maintained to a level that there is never any shiny patches of tar ever again...???

... Or avoidable as is the rider taking it a bit easier in the wet allowing for the traction he won't have if there are shiny patches of tar around the next corner...???

[Insanity_rules]

No, its:

- a blur of sportbikes (or scream)
- a rumble of harleys
- a stink of twostrokes
- a blap of dirtbikes
- a tonne of goldwings
- a circus of crusty demons
- a deathwish of litre bikes ridden by noobs
- an embarrasment of ginnies
- an economy of scooters

and the general collective noun for a mix is "a fantasy of bikes"

:laugh: Oh yes! But I thought it was
- a shockwave of sportsbikes
- a fright of noobs
- a pootle of GNs
- a flatulence of Scooters
- a spampede of Goldwing
- and a deathwish of crusty demons

My mistake.

[Mikkel]

All respect for the deceased. If you manage to drive yourself off the road - irrespectable of diesel, grit, tar bleeds, punctures, etc. - you would have been going too fast for your own good. That is not to say that you were exceeding the speed limit or going faster than what would have been perfectly reasonable in 99% of similar situations.
Despite what some people say, you can never expect the unexpected nor predict the unpredictable - all you can do is give yourself a reasonable margin for error.

[Patrick]

Avoidable as in that all roads in NZ get maintained to a level that there is never any shiny patches of tar ever again...???

... Or avoidable as is the rider taking it a bit easier in the wet allowing for the traction he won't have if there are shiny patches of tar around the next corner...???

Dunno. Both? Road construction is generally crap, and has been for a while. I've seen tar bleed patches form two days after a re-seal.... And he is a local, who should know that SH3 is shite..... So I suppose option two is the most logical....

My only concern is that this does not seem to be an isolated incident for this particular spot.....