Round 5 of NZ Superbikes may be canned?

[Teambwr47]

To those that weren't there at Paeroa, it was suggested by officials at the riders briefing that the last round of the Nationals at Pukekohe was currently NOT a viable meeting financially due to lack of entries.

I've not entered yet but will be tomorrow and anyone else that hasn't needs to.

If this meeting were to be cancelled it would be a very black day for National road racing in NZ.

[svs]

Hope they don't can it. My bikes already up there waiting for me. But either way with the track already booked and paid for they wouldn't loose much more by going ahead with the meeting anyway. Might make them think about next year tho....

Dunno if the vicclub broke even at round 4 - it would be a close run thing if they did.

I guess this is why there is no professional promoters willing to pick up anything other than the odd street race - there's certainly no profit in this game.

[Sketchy_Racer]

I think it's a bit late in the game for them to be implying things like that? Lots of people have already purchased tyres and consumables, booked accommodation and applied for leave.

Definitely not what we want to hear!

[gammaguy]

here we go again,the simple formula everyone seems to have trouble grasping.

to run a succesful meeting you NEED

1)spectators
2)riders
3)organisers
4)promotion
5)sponsors

these are mutually dependent.

without any single ONE of these ingredients the whole thing falls down.

WHEN THE HELL WILL MNZ LEARN???

****goes away to bang head against wall***

[Shaun P]

here we go again,the simple formula everyone seems to have trouble grasping.

to run a succesful meeting you NEED

1)spectators
2)riders
3)organisers
4)promotion
5)sponsors

these are mutually dependent.

without any single ONE of these ingredients the whole thing falls down.

WHEN THE HELL WILL MNZ LEARN???

****goes away to bang head against wall***

Exactly - well put I have been down this path many times there is actually a great pool of untapped talent that could be racing but chooses not to, it really does need some fresh thinking and is not an easy task.

Saying that though I will offer my services as a riders rep FOC to MNZ. :mobile:

[gammaguy]

Exactly - well put I have been down this path many times there is actually a great pool of untapped talent that could be racing but chooses not to, it really does need some fresh thinking and is not an easy task.

Saying that though I will offer my services as a riders rep FOC to MNZ. :mobile:

we need to make changes and we need to make them soon,otherwise the sport I and many others love will become no more notable than the local lawn bowls club championships.

if thats what we all want,(which i doubt)all we have to do is keep doing things the way we are now.the rest will take care of itself.

it starts at club level,we can all make a difference.

[cs363]

here we go again,the simple formula everyone seems to have trouble grasping.

to run a successful meeting you NEED

1)spectators
2)riders
3)organisers
4)promotion
5)sponsors

these are mutually dependent.

without any single ONE of these ingredients the whole thing falls down.

WHEN THE HELL WILL MNZ LEARN???

****goes away to bang head against wall***


Yes, some would argue that the seeming lack of 4) (above) is a major contributor to the lack of 1) & 5) at present as far as the Nationals go.
Not an entirely fair argument as the format itself is an attraction, but the street circuits seem to be better promoted as well as better supported by spectators. Is this purely coincidence? Just thinking out loud here.

I've lost touch with that side of it but is MNZ still acting as the promoter for the Nationals? And further, is this also the case with the street circuits or are they promoted by outside companies and/or the organising clubs?
Be interesting to hear the facts on the above and see if there are any other interesting musings to be drawn from the results! :mellow:

[Gremlin]

There are currently 50 or 60 entries all up... (can't remember which)

Apparently, the word is... if the numbers aren't there, it doesn't go ahead... (words I heard on the grapevine).

[k14]

Talk about suck big time!! Already had organised flights, motel etc to come up from Alex for a while. Will be very annoyed if they cancel it!

[Maido]

Hope they give us a bucket load of notice. Our van is at mr Bagshaws (thanks Steve!!), air fares have already been purchased, as have tyres and hotels, I have time off work etc.
It is a long way to go from Invercargill to pick up a van, as well as this, I am currently involved in the best racing I have ever been involved in!

This meeting will not be called off. Isn't there some type of legal binding to being part of a national series. (PS they knew Beckham would be run at a loss and they still went ahead, now they are 1.7m in the hole!).

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

It is a shame there are not more entries - especially in the support classes. The organisers (the Clubs) do all the hard work for no return, all care and responsibility and financial risk (on the day MNZ run the meeting and have the last say). Yet it is really an amazing event with fantastic riding. I don't know enough to suggest what the solutions could be but I do know the Vic Club runs an excellent Actrix Winter Series and we were getting up to 225 bikes entering one round. Ok those numbers may drop off this year due to the economic downturn but time will tell.

[gammaguy]

i feel for all you racers,doing your best to support your sponsors and personally,by getting to this meeting.

i know first hand what all that costs

hopefully the AMCC (and MNZ)will do the right thing and run this meeting no matter what.

i wouldnt bank on it however.:nono:

[sidecar bob]

Im confused why the Taupo Roadrace Spectacular can get over 220 entries & the national champs can only attract 50 or 60 apparently.
Seriously, could some of you competitors shed some light on why you are more attracted to do one than the other.

[Billy]

here we go again,the simple formula everyone seems to have trouble grasping.

to run a succesful meeting you NEED

1)spectators
2)riders
3)organisers
4)promotion
5)sponsors

these are mutually dependent.

without any single ONE of these ingredients the whole thing falls down.

WHEN THE HELL WILL MNZ LEARN???

****goes away to bang head against wall***

How can it be entirely MNZs fault when no riders enter their National series,Is it promotion? I dont think so. All the riders knew the meetings were on but nobody entered,Paul Stewart was there and so were all the people who give up their time voluntarily too help organise and run the meetings on the day.Why would people want too sponsor people who dont support them in anyway,For example how many of the 200 plus riders that compete in the Actrix superbike series actually use Actrix as an internet provider???.I email a number of these competitors regularly and the only one other than myself that I have encountered is Phil Snowdon and he works there!!How can it be MNZs fault when they organise a meeting in the biggest population base in the country there are only 63 confirmed entries 2 weeks out?And I bet a large number of those are from the south island.How many spectators do reckon would turn up at the Wellington rugby sevens if there were only two teams playing or a rugby test if only 7 Allblacks were going too turn up.I read on this site after the 1st round at Teretonga,That MNZ had destroyed the F3 class cause there were only 8 entries.In 2005 there were only 11 entries at the same meeting the riders absent since then are Derek Hill(deceased),Andy Bolwell(retired)and Neil Smith(moved to protwins).SOoo how is that MNZs fault??Wake up and stop blaming the organisers,If you continue too do what you are (which appears too be nothing)Then youll always have what youve got.Which also appears too be nothing

[malcy25]

here we go again,the simple formula everyone seems to have trouble grasping.

to run a succesful meeting you NEED

1)spectators
2)riders
3)organisers
4)promotion
5)sponsors

these are mutually dependent.

without any single ONE of these ingredients the whole thing falls down.

WHEN THE HELL WILL MNZ LEARN???

****goes away to bang head against wall***

Spent some time talking to Club Prez Costello later last night. The meeting IS going ahead.

Believe it or not, 4 and 5 have been done. Remembering that 4 is primarily ainmed at # 1 and is paid for my #5 who have chipped in a lot of cash for TV and radio etc.

#3 has been working hard to make it happen

# 1 will be found out on the day and I hear last year was the biggest gate in a long time.

#2 is the only problem - too few entries. The support class I hear is about 1/3 of the total entries which is just pathetic given that this date and entry forms have been available for months. Hands up who haven't entered and tell why? If it's lack of cash / worried about your job, fair call. But at times the riders get what they support. Don't support the nationals, don't get a national Championship meeting or series.

My view is that if you have entered the meeting got cancelled don't take umbrage at the poor guys who stuck it on the line to make the event happen and then had to make a hard decision. Go talk to the riders who could have but didn't enter.

Costello also said that given the circumstances, entries are still being taken but there is a cut off for the programme so don't dawdle and there is a finite point sometime next week where they do really have to cut them off.

If you have entered and you know people who could but haven't, get on to them.

[sidecar bob]

My view is that if you have entered the meeting got cancelled don't take umbrage at the poor guys who stuck it on the line to make the event happen and then had to make a hard decision. Go talk to the riders who could have but didn't enter.


So could i have some answers to my earlier post as to why they didnt.
Clearly, going off the Wanganui & TRRS entries there is the competitor base sufficent to over subscribe most classes.
So what is it that drives them away.
This needs to be seriously researched before we have tumbleweed blowing up the pit lane at the nationals.

[Toast]

I entered last night.

You can still put in an entry until Wednesday next week...so get going people :)

[Shaun]

How can it be entirely MNZs fault when no riders enter their National series,Is it promotion? I dont think so. All the riders knew the meetings were on but nobody entered,Paul Stewart was there and so were all the people who give up their time voluntarily too help organise and run the meetings on the day.Why would people want too sponsor people who dont support them in anyway,For example how many of the 200 plus riders that compete in the Actrix superbike series actually use Actrix as an internet provider???.I email a number of these competitors regularly and the only one other than myself that I have encountered is Phil Snowdon and he works there!!How can it be MNZs fault when they organise a meeting in the biggest population base in the country there are only 63 confirmed entries 2 weeks out?And I bet a large number of those are from the south island.How many spectators do reckon would turn up at the Wellington rugby sevens if there were only two teams playing or a rugby test if only 7 Allblacks were going too turn up.I read on this site after the 1st round at Teretonga,That MNZ had destroyed the F3 class cause there were only 8 entries.In 2005 there were only 11 entries at the same meeting the riders absent since then are Derek Hill(deceased),Andy Bolwell(retired)and Neil Smith(moved to protwins).SOoo how is that MNZs fault??Wake up and stop blaming the organisers,If you continue too do what you are (which appears too be nothing)Then youll always have what youve got.Which also appears too be nothing



Very very well said Billy

[sinfull]

Spent some time talking to Club Prez Costello later last night. The meeting IS going ahead.

Believe it or not, 4 and 5 have been done. Remembering that 4 is primarily ainmed at # 1 and is paid for my #5 who have chipped in a lot of cash for TV and radio etc.

#3 has been working hard to make it happen

# 1 will be found out on the day and I hear last year was the biggest gate in a long time.

#2 is the only problem - too few entries. The support class I hear is about 1/3 of the total entries which is just pathetic given that this date and entry forms have been available for months. Hands up who haven't entered and tell why? If it's lack of cash / worried about your job, fair call. But at times the riders get what they support. Don't support the nationals, don't get a national Championship meeting or series.

My view is that if you have entered the meeting got cancelled don't take umbrage at the poor guys who stuck it on the line to make the event happen and then had to make a hard decision. Go talk to the riders who could have but didn't enter.

Costello also said that given the circumstances, entries are still being taken but there is a cut off for the programme so don't dawdle and there is a finite point sometime next week where they do really have to cut them off.

If you have entered and you know people who could but haven't, get on to them.

Hell i'll stick my hand up and race somewhere, shit i'll cross enter as many classes as ppl would lend me a bike for :lol:
But alas my sad ol bears bike is only allowed in F1 is it not ?
Nah i aint gonna be the one that goes down in history, as the guy that took out the top 4 as they all tried to squeeze past me at the same time !
May be the case with alot of riders perhaps ????

Cant even ride in the support class ???

[Tony.OK]

So could i have some answers to my earlier post as to why they didnt.
Clearly, going off the Wanganui & TRRS entries there is the competitor base sufficent to over subscribe most classes.
So what is it that drives them away.
This needs to be seriously researched before we have tumbleweed blowing up the pit lane at the nationals.

For me its simply the cost factor. Which is why I didn't/couldn't do the TRRS after Wanganui. I chose to do Paeroa rather than other meetings and have maxxed myself out just to do that. A one day event is way cheaper than a 2 dayer.......esp on a SBK.
During the winter I was using overtime at work to pay for each round, now with the export market stuffed we are down to 4 day weeks and am using leave to keep wages topped up.:crazy:
Thats my reason..............................I'd love to have done some Nats events but short of a mortgagee sale its not possible for me.

[WarrenW]

I personally think cost has a great deal to do with it.

The organising clubs get increased charges for things like track hire, catering etc when you run a National rated event. These costs have to be handed down to the competitors as we do not seem to be attracting enough of a crowd to the meeting to allow for gate taking to cover costs.

It's a 2 edge sword, if they reduced the price of entry we would see a huge increase in the numbers entering because it would be more affordable, this would then hopefully attract more spectators to see large feilds racing.

In saying that, the Vic Club runs a large meeting with free entry for spectators, which results in very low spectator numbers. Possibly due to a lack of advertising and media coverage.

Just my two cents worth, but by dropping prices you will get more entries and a better class of racing and generate more interest in the sport from sponsors and spectators benefiting motorcycling as a whole.

[kittytamer]

I would like to enter to support the event, but having only done 1 clubman race I think I would get in the way of the F2 boys. But I will come and spectate to support the series!

[Skunk]

#2 is the only problem - too few entries. The support class I hear is about 1/3 of the total entries which is just pathetic given that this date and entry forms have been available for months. Hands up who haven't entered and tell why? If it's lack of cash / worried about your job, fair call. But at times the riders get what they support. Don't support the nationals, don't get a national Championship meeting or series.


I personally think cost has a great deal to do with it.
The lack of riders entering means clubs put the cost up the following year. This means less riders enter.

Which clubs have the funds to not only take the losses they have on these meetings and also drop the price to a lower level in the hope that some extra riders will enter?

Generally all we hear are excuses as to why they won't enter. Nothing about why they will.

Sidecar Bob: I enter the TRRS because you run F5/F4. If you didn't I wouldn't show up.

[Billy]

Sidecar Bob: I enter the TRRS because you run F5/F4. If you didn't I wouldn't show up.

And there lies 1 of the biggest contributing factors too the National series being in the state it is,Too many options!Back through the 70s/80s and early nineties there were only F1,F2,Bears,Senior production,600 production,250 production, 125gp and sidecars that had a national championship and they all ran at the same championship rounds.Now theres Classic senior and junior,Pre 72 post classic senior and Junior,Pre 82 post classic senior and junior,Pre 89 post classic senior,Junior,classic sidecars,Post classic sidecars,Superbike,600 sports production,F3,Protwins,125gp,Bears and sidecars.Thats 10 more championship classes now than there was back then and only 6 of those classes run at our National rounds.Imagine if some of those other classes were brought in.How many riders would there be at the Nationals then ???Without doing any research Id be confident too wager there are atleast the same amount of people if not more roadracing in NZ now than there were then.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

And there lies 1 of the biggest contributing factors too the National series being in the state it is,Too many options!Back through the 70s/80s and early nineties there were only F1,F2,Bears,Senior production,600 production,250 production, 125gp and sidecars that had a national championship and they all ran at the same championship rounds.Now theres Classic senior and junior,Pre 72 post classic senior and Junior,Pre 82 post classic senior and junior,Pre 89 post classic senior,Junior,classic sidecars,Post classic sidecars,Superbike,600 sports production,F3,Protwins,125gp,Bears and sidecars.Thats 10 more championship classes now than there was back then and only 6 of those classes run at our National rounds.Imagine if some of those other classes were brought in.How many riders would there be at the Nationals then ???Without doing any research Id be confident too wager there are atleast the same amount of people if not more roadracing in NZ now than there were then.

isnt it funny, Billy, common sense just aint common!!

[steveyb]

Again!
Have a really good read and think about what Billy is saying regarding using sponsors products/services and dilution of numbers through too many class structures.
I use Actrix myself (via a hotmail email address). Have a good look and think about their broadband offering. Beats the shit out of Smellycom.

Enjoy.

[Skunk]

And there lies 1 of the biggest contributing factors too the National series being in the state it is,Too many options!Back through the 70s/80s and early nineties there were only F1,F2,Bears,Senior production,600 production,250 production, 125gp and sidecars that had a national championship and they all ran at the same championship rounds.Now theres Classic senior and junior,Pre 72 post classic senior and Junior,Pre 82 post classic senior and junior,Pre 89 post classic senior,Junior,classic sidecars,Post classic sidecars,Superbike,600 sports production,F3,Protwins,125gp,Bears and sidecars.Thats 10 more championship classes now than there was back then and only 6 of those classes run at our National rounds.Imagine if some of those other classes were brought in.How many riders would there be at the Nationals then ???Without doing any research Id be confident too wager there are atleast the same amount of people if not more roadracing in NZ now than there were then.
These are the classes VMCC ran this year at Nationals:
F3 and 650 Pro Twin
600cc Sports Production
Sidecars
125 GP
NZ Superbike
Open Twins 2 & 4 Stroke (the Support class)

I don't see that as too many - it's only 7. You're saying 8 was right and we have too many now?

The TRRS is not a round of the Nationals. I think you're beefing up the classes for the sake of your argument. Not that you don't have a point - but not in regard to THE Nationals.

I think there are many who are able to run in a National class but choose NOT too. WHY they choose not to is the REAL issue - not the reasons they give on forums etc.

[Str8 Jacket]

Well I know that myself and a few others would have supported the North Island Nationals this year but we dont have a f*cken class to enter!!!!

For the next couple of years we will only be supporting the Nationals 'down South too, I mean I know that S/Stock aint that exciting to watch but it would've got a few more entries at Manfeild and Puke!! :yes:

[steveyb]

The point being made is that all of the classes that have mushroomed up in the past years have drawn riders away from the championship classes.
Back in the day when NZSBK was really strong, there was not the plethora of other classes that people would buy bikes for and then want to race in that class and not in another class, least of all in a championship class.

The attitude being "I wanna buy a wodden tennis racquet motorbike, just cos I wanna, and I wanna race it, but there is no class that I can win on it, so I will moan and moan and get a few other wooden tennis racquet riders to moan too, and we will start our own class"

The corollary being that maybe a few of those riders who might have gotten modern championship class bikes, don't.

Don't get me wrong, we all have the choice to do what we want to do, but in the end of that arguement you end up where we are now. Like I said, be careful for what you wish as you might just get it.

The point made above about Streetstock though, is a very valid one.
One that needs to be looked at very carefully by organisers in the NI for next year.

[Billy]

These are the classes VMCC ran this year at Nationals:
F3 and 650 Pro Twin
600cc Sports Production
Sidecars
125 GP
NZ Superbike
Open Twins 2 & 4 Stroke (the Support class)

I don't see that as too many - it's only 7. You're saying 8 was right and we have too many now?


Jeez Andrew,Read the post properly before replying.If you bother to count them there are now 18 NZ championships as opposed to the 8 we had when the feilds were full.Nobody was suggesting that the Vic club ran too many classes,Rather maybe the answer would be to run 1 or more of the other championship classes with the current structure,IE Post classic or Classic or both,You know,Like they do at the street meetings where the feilds are huge

[Squid69]

Spent some time talking to Club Prez Costello later last night. The meeting IS going ahead.

Believe it or not, 4 and 5 have been done. Remembering that 4 is primarily ainmed at # 1 and is paid for my #5 who have chipped in a lot of cash for TV and radio etc.

#3 has been working hard to make it happen

# 1 will be found out on the day and I hear last year was the biggest gate in a long time.

#2 is the only problem - too few entries. The support class I hear is about 1/3 of the total entries which is just pathetic given that this date and entry forms have been available for months. Hands up who haven't entered and tell why? If it's lack of cash / worried about your job, fair call. But at times the riders get what they support. Don't support the nationals, don't get a national Championship meeting or series.

My view is that if you have entered the meeting got cancelled don't take umbrage at the poor guys who stuck it on the line to make the event happen and then had to make a hard decision. Go talk to the riders who could have but didn't enter.

Costello also said that given the circumstances, entries are still being taken but there is a cut off for the programme so don't dawdle and there is a finite point sometime next week where they do really have to cut them off.

If you have entered and you know people who could but haven't, get on to them.



Yes, some would argue that the seeming lack of 4) (above) is a major contributor to the lack of 1) & 5) at present as far as the Nationals go.
Not an entirely fair argument as the format itself is an attraction, but the street circuits seem to be better promoted as well as better supported by spectators. Is this purely coincidence? Just thinking out loud here.

I've lost touch with that side of it but is MNZ still acting as the promoter for the Nationals? And further, is this also the case with the street circuits or are they promoted by outside companies and/or the organising clubs?
Be interesting to hear the facts on the above and see if there are any other interesting musings to be drawn from the results! :mellow:


If I didn’t read this website I wouldn’t have even known about the nationals.
I listen to The Rock fm, at work, all day... Are they not listed as a sponsor of the event...?


Im confused why the Taupo Roadrace Spectacular can get over 220 entries & the national champs can only attract 50 or 60 apparently.
Seriously, could some of you competitors shed some light on why you are more attracted to do one than the other.


As a guy getting into the game of racing I think they should bin clubmans and put in place a FEEDER race, say only practice and 2 short races on the Saturday afternoon.
Entry to this would be cheaper than for the proper classes. The top 5 placings win their entry fees to the next round of nationals in their class e.g. f1 and f2...
I saw at Manfield there were sweet FA bikes in those races.

This would bring the riders with bikes that are now 5 years old who race at club level but have no way of spending 20,000 on a competitive bike, and wont enter because they don’t want to be the only one battling for last place. The top 10 – 20 riders in f2 at the 2008 winter series were only about 5-7 seconds off the pace of the top 5 at nationals. (assuming that the last few pick up a second or two because of the summer/grippyer track.)

Even the post classic GP at taupo attracted more than 60 riders. Why is there open twins with 5 bikes! IM sure pre 89 post classics could tripple that number easily!

[GIXser]

it would help if (they) mnz and amcc moved up with the times.. i.e get an email adress for entrees and even a fax number....(imagine that)

[malcy25]

Jeez Andrew,Read the post properly before replying.If you bother to count them there are now 18 NZ championships as opposed to the 8 we had when the feilds were full.Nobody was suggesting that the Vic club ran too many classes,Rather maybe the answer would be to run 1 or more of the other championship classes with the current structure,IE Post classic or Classic or both,You know,Like they do at the street meetings where the feilds are huge

Billy

The Postie classes are not national championship classes. As I understand it they are 2 stand alone title events only (TT and GP), one of which (the GP)they run themselves as a stand alone event with BEARS invited IIRC.

Plus the average age of most riders I see is beyond what you would expect riding in a National class.....so I'm not sure how many they are pulling away from the National champ classes.

Irrespective of all this, the total entrants at any of the events are way down this year, all over the nationals.

[malcy25]

it would help if (they) mnz and amcc moved up with the times.. i.e get an email adress for entrees and even a fax number....(imagine that)

Granted, not on the form and that may be for a reason (like they want original signatures on the indemnity). Irrespective not exactly hard info to find....
http://www.amcc.org.nz/

If that was a reason for not entering, I'd be suspicious of their commitment to racing (or get out of bed!!!).

500 lookers, 33 posters and almost zip comment on why people haven't entered the nationals.

[malcy25]

For me its simply the cost factor. Which is why I didn't/couldn't do the TRRS after Wanganui. I chose to do Paeroa rather than other meetings and have maxxed myself out just to do that. A one day event is way cheaper than a 2 dayer.......esp on a SBK.
During the winter I was using overtime at work to pay for each round, now with the export market stuffed we are down to 4 day weeks and am using leave to keep wages topped up.:crazy:
Thats my reason..............................I'd love to have done some Nats events but short of a mortgagee sale its not possible for me.

Tony fair nuff - can't argue with that and thanks for being honest about it.

[Squid69]

Billy

The Postie classes are not national championship classes. As I understand it they are 2 stand alone title events only (TT and GP), one of which (the GP)they run themselves as a stand alone event with BEARS invited IIRC.

Plus the average age of most riders I see is beyond what you would expect riding in a National class.....so I'm not sure how many they are pulling away from the National champ classes.

Irrespective of all this, the total entrants at any of the events are way down this year, all over the nationals.

The reason pre 89 goes off is because keen young guys can afford 3k for a bike, (not the cheep svs for 15). not because the dinosaurs (some of whoom spend a fair bit on their bikes) are all going there to retire.

HAS MNZ thought about a formula 400 type class? _proper cheep_ not 15,000 - 20,000 to come better then mid pack kind of cheep.

[Biggles08]

Well I'm determined to enter but I have nooooooooo money left in the kitty! I only managed to go to Manfield because another racer sponsored my entry fee...no way I could have afforded it otherwise (I won't mention his name or everyone will be pm'ing him...hehehe).

I called AMCC tonight and asked about entering costs and it is $320 including transponder hire. That combined with 2 sets of tires, fuel/oil etc makes it close to a $1000 weekend for me! Anyone want to pay my entry fee....I'm there with bells on otherwise I gotta factor in my mortgage too :weep:

I seriously believe the numbers are down for no other reason apart from the cost...that would be the only reason I won't be able to enter.

[malcy25]

Biggles.

Thanks also for being honest about the money factor.

Another question: Do guys sometimes do too much racing and "blow their wad (!)" before the season end?

[Skunk]

Rather maybe the answer would be to run 1 or more of the other championship classes with the current structure,IE Post classic or Classic or both,You know,Like they do at the street meetings where the feilds are hugeNow I see what you mean... Sorry, I misread your post totally. I read it as there being 18 classes for Nationals. I know that some classes could be combined but I'm not sure that would be the answer.
I personally think think premier classes should be the only ones contested at Nationals. There has to be an answer but without honest feedback from riders we be forever in the downward spiral.


As a guy getting into the game of racing I think they should bin clubmans and put in place a FEEDER race, say only practice and 2 short races on the Saturday afternoon.
Entry to this would be cheaper than for the proper classes. The top 5 placings win their entry fees to the next round of nationals in their class e.g. f1 and f2...
I saw at Manfield there were sweet FA bikes in those races.Clubmans is a class designed for riders to try racing without even having to buy a racebike. I don't think making it so you must buy an F1/F2/F3 eligible bike will help in the long term. Club racing is all about getting the skill and speed required for Nationals. What we need at Nationals is some of the Club riders to enter.

[DEATH_INC.]

This would bring the riders with bikes that are now 5 years old who race at club level but have no way of spending 20,000 on a competitive bike,

Here here. I can do ok on my old pos at most tracks (mebbe not puke...old 750 against new thous...) but not allowed. Too old apparently, same as paeroa.
Not that this is the only excuse at the mo ( Like Tony, I'm a little too broke to race at the mo....) but I certainly won't bother trying to get the cash together if I know I can't race anyhoo.
I think you'll find the almighty $$$$$ is the biggest problem for most, big entry fees and bigger tyre bills if ya wanna give it a good nudge, specially for the sbk crew.
Now if someone wants to lend me a new bike and a stack of new tyres I'll find the cash for the petrol :yes:

[Squid69]

Clubmans is a class designed for riders to try racing without even having to buy a racebike. I don't think making it so you must buy an F1/F2/F3 eligible bike will help in the long term. Club racing is all about getting the skill and speed required for Nationals. What we need at Nationals is some of the Club riders to enter.

Which is exactly what i am talking about. Bin clubmans(or that open twins race they had at manfield). then offer a cheeper one day race event, run along side practice on the first day at nationals, at which said club racers can win entry fees to f1/f2 at the next nationals round.
Means that club racers will see people they are used to mixing with, out there, and wonder why they are not, and take away the money factor for a few keen individuals.

[DEATH_INC.]

I personally think think premier classes should be the only ones contested at Nationals.
Yeh, I tend to agree with this. There are plenty of club series now for all the other stuff.


There has to be an answer but without honest feedback from riders we be forever in the downward spiral.
Listen to this MNZ, listen to your riders too. It's not us and them, which I see far too often, work together. If the riders are whinging and moaning it's because there is a problem, not just an excuse to moan. I saw this crap with the SCB when I was into stockcars, too many strong arm tactics:Police:, not enough listening:confused:.
It doesn't help the sport.:third:

[puddytat]

Clubmans is a class designed for riders to try racing without even having to buy a racebike. I don't think making it so you must buy an F1/F2/F3 eligible bike will help in the long term. Club racing is all about getting the skill and speed required for Nationals. What we need at Nationals is some of the Club riders to enter.

Right on there man....only reason Im trying racing is 'cause i can do it on my roadbike in the Clubmans class. I dont give a hoot that the thous leave me for dead & it also has shown me that if i had the 'dosh' I would take racing more seriously .....& I aint entering the Nationals 'till I think i aint going to get lapped!!
Plus too, maybe someone at some point might see that I can run pretty quick on a stockbike & might offer me a good deal on some bits for the bike. Its for me purely a financial thing & I aint selling the farm to do it. Production racing i think would suit many of us a tad more, then the cream that rises to the top could then maybe with some help ,take that next big step....

[lostinflyz]

its a never ending circle that is just a representation of the game.

riders blame the club cause the fees are so high and its nothing more than a club meet, they blame mnz cause the classes are too damn expensive and trying to get anything done is so fucking political. The clubs blame mnz cause they dont get enough money to lower fees and blame all the riders bitch to much about his and that and dont front up with the money needed to make sure that the club can exist. MNZ blames someone the riders cause there too shit to attract anyone and the club for some reason im sure.

Everyones got valid points. The events not good enough (be it promotion, the spectacle (bullshit), the venue or location or whatever) to draw a big crowd. There arent alot of sponsers out there thorwing cash away at riders and they demand alot more than they used to, to the point where having sponsors can be difficult (all sports that arent front page news have this struggle, look at the same money troubles in hockey or domestic football). The costs for running a bike in any of thew national classes are astronomical even with sponsors, almost even more so if its all your cash. but everyones dedicated, the clubs, MNZ and the riders.

Theres a million reasons and million arguments about the fall of road racing here. but theres never any real talk about any solutions. everyone seems to just blame someone and never does anything. Im guilty and i know most are. maybe a serious survey of riders and organisers expectations and desires should be done by MNZ to get the ball rolling and establish what the view of all the riders actually is????

[Skunk]

Which is exactly what i am talking about. Bin clubmans(or that open twins race they had at manfield). then offer a cheeper one day race event, run along side practice on the first day at nationals, at which said club racers can win entry fees to f1/f2 at the next nationals round.
Means that club racers will see people they are used to mixing with, out there, and wonder why they are not, and take away the money factor for a few keen individuals.I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying do away with Clubmans at Club level or at National level? I'm not to sure you can just enter a Nationals event without having raced before which could be a hitch.
VMCC ran the open twins to get all those RS250's, TZ's, BEARs, Posties and all those other twins out there. You saw the result - is $250 entry too much for a one-off chance to race the old (possibly now-without-a-class) bike? I didn't think so. But hardly anyone took the opportunity.

[Billy]

Billy

The Postie classes are not national championship classes. As I understand it they are 2 stand alone title events only (TT and GP), one of which (the GP)they run themselves as a stand alone event with BEARS invited IIRC.

Plus the average age of most riders I see is beyond what you would expect riding in a National class.....so I'm not sure how many they are pulling away from the National champ classes.

Irrespective of all this, the total entrants at any of the events are way down this year, all over the nationals.

Granted they are not National Championship series as such but they do still have a National title and a series for the number 1 plate for each class.I wasnt suggesting they would be interested in racing say for arguments sake 600s or superbikes rather that if its going too have a National champion status that it should be run with the other National classes therefore increasing the number of entrants at the National rounds.The very last thing the sport needs is more classes,Formula 400/5 year old 600s what next??A special class for people born on the 29th of Feb or maybe all those with blonde hair FFS.How much cheaper do you suppose its going too be to race a 5yr old 600???

[Str8 Jacket]

Granted they are not National Championship series as such but they do still have a National title and a series for the number 1 plate for each class.I wasnt suggesting they would be interested in racing say for arguments sake 600s or superbikes rather that if its going too have a National champion status that it should be run with the other National classes therefore increasing the number of entrants at the National rounds.The very last thing the sport needs is more classes,Formula 400/5 year old 600s what next??A special class for people born on the 29th of Feb or maybe all those with blonde hair FFS.How much cheaper do you suppose its going too be to race a 5yr old 600???

You forgot the "Girls Class" :rolleyes:

[Squid69]

I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying do away with Clubmans at Club level or at National level? I'm not to sure you can just enter a Nationals event without having raced before which could be a hitch.
VMCC ran the open twins to get all those RS250's, TZ's, BEARs, Posties and all those other twins out there. You saw the result - is $250 entry too much for a one-off chance to race the old (possibly now-without-a-class) bike? I didn't think so. But hardly anyone took the opportunity.

Definatly NOT at club level! that is where it should be.

Open twins had 6 or 7? bikes in? Imagine if you had even 20 mad at it guys from club level f2/f1 racing for entry fees. (probably more than they have won before in a race)
If the thing was done on one day you could halve the entry fee too. I assume this is why the nationals have larger fees than a typical one day club round?
and you would have an extra hour for the main classes on the 2nd day.

[Squid69]

Granted they are not National Championship series as such but they do still have a National title and a series for the number 1 plate for each class.I wasnt suggesting they would be interested in racing say for arguments sake 600s or superbikes rather that if its going too have a National champion status that it should be run with the other National classes therefore increasing the number of entrants at the National rounds.The very last thing the sport needs is more classes,Formula 400/5 year old 600s what next??A special class for people born on the 29th of Feb or maybe all those with blonde hair FFS.How much cheaper do you suppose its going too be to race a 5yr old 600???

I was not proposing it as an extra class. Was more of an idea to attract more 600/1000 club guys to the event. ones that otherwise wont bother even taking the weekend off and watching.

[SWERVE]

i agree that mnz/nth is clubs should definately look long and hard at Streetstock.
yes it may look pretty sedate after the other class............ but this IS WHERE THE REAL YOUNG TALENT IS.
And the long term future of the sport. I did some coaching last weekend at the ruapuna track day, this was the 1st time i had been out with my 14yr old son since he started competitive racing. He has only done 4 meetings (inc one nat rd) His improvement/skill level was to be modest *F*#@Kn UNREAL.
Not forgetting all the other junior riders who are all so talented at their age it leaves me speechless.
By the way i had decided to do both levels & Ruapuna rounds in 600sp (even thou i would have been well at the back) however a big crash in Dec and a 675 in pieces in Jan.............. Thats my excuse.
My lad will be at all sth is nat rounds next year (and nth is if they see sense)
Also will be at all sth is club rounds too (whatever it takes)
He has been told that he can ride the 675 when he gets his adult race licence.................... and soon as he can lap quicker than me the bike is his................ better make use of the short time i have left wiv me bike eh.

[Skunk]

Definatly NOT at club level! that is where it should be.

Open twins had 6 or 7? bikes in? Imagine if you had even 20 mad at it guys from club level f2/f1 racing for entry fees. (probably more than they have won before in a race)
If the thing was done on one day you could halve the entry fee too. I assume this is why the nationals have larger fees than a typical one day club round?
and you would have an extra hour for the main classes on the 2nd day.I don't think we would get 20 extra guys racing. In spite of the general cries of 'I can't afford it' they really mean something else. I don't think the entry fee is the whole issue. Things such as being lapped are.


i agree that mnz/nth is clubs should definately look long and hard at Streetstock.
yes it may look pretty sedate after the other class............ but this IS WHERE THE REAL YOUNG TALENT IS.
My lad will be at all sth is nat rounds next year (and nth is if they see sense)
VMCC have done Streetstocks before. This time they tried something different. Granted, it didn't work. Streetstocks aren't the best adverts at National meets. Damn right about full classes and helping those starting racing. That's why they should be treated the same as Clubmans. (Not disdain or anything like that - just as a novice class. Not really National level stuff.) I have no idea on a substitute for Nationals though...

[Squid69]

I don't think we would get 20 extra guys racing. In spite of the general cries of 'I can't afford it' they really mean something else. I don't think the entry fee is the whole issue. Things such as being lapped are.


well if you had this feeder class, then your going to get those types in a seperate, slightly slower race, for half price...
Then id say a few would stay and watch the next day, providing a few more spectators... The top few will get into the next event, free. Thus turning up to the next round too.

With only 16 people turning up to racve i think that even 5 more is a good thing...

[cowpoos]

To those that weren't there at Paeroa, it was suggested by officials at the riders briefing that the last round of the Nationals at Pukekohe was currently NOT a viable meeting financially due to lack of entries.

I've not entered yet but will be tomorrow and anyone else that hasn't needs to.

If this meeting were to be cancelled it would be a very black day for National road racing in NZ.
I hate to say it...but it wouldn't be a big loss.

On one hand you will have good racing!! no doubt about it.

but as a spectator...you will have

Shit food, shit facilities, shit toliets...which will be dirty!!
A very dangerous track!! and heavy rain forcast for sunday.


Can't wait for hampton downs....hope they open specilist catering facilities...so people can ge decent food...drinks [no only limited to coke and fanta]
The last nationals at puke....probally won't be remember for very long...

[gammaguy]

i doubt many of us will miss pukekohe.

lets hope we can make hampton downs a great motorcycle track.

[Kickaha]

and heavy rain forcast for sunday.

Yes please we need at leat one wet round


The last nationals at puke....

fucking Hallelujah my prayers have been answered after all

[Billy]

You forgot the "Girls Class" :rolleyes:

Oooh yea,Now you got me.G strings compulsory

[koba]

I have a limited ammount of time and money I can pour into racing each year.
I COULD afford to do a national round but If I can only afford to do so many events a year I'm going to pick and choose and I will go for the ones that are the best for me to do, the nationals are not that high on the list at the moment.
Other events get my vote first.

Good on Vic Club for trying somthing new with the open twins, I don't think it really worked but at least they are trying different angles to try make it all work.

[MadDuck]

Oooh yea,Now you got me.G strings compulsory

Hmmm....I guess the marshalls will be required to carry "heart" pills :laugh:

[Billy]

Hmmm....I guess the marshalls will be required to carry "heart" pills :laugh:

For who?Them or us

[lostinflyz]

why the hell isn't streetstock a national class??? Theres lots of people doing it and generally some pretty action packed racing going on. 9 times out of 10 its the racing with the most racing going on. a national level class full of competitive kids (and adults) would be a good sight, and more than likely the only class with a long list of competitive entries (well certainly more than the max 5 or 6 in ALL national classes at the moment)

[Howie]

And there lies 1 of the biggest contributing factors too the National series being in the state it is,Too many options!Back through the 70s/80s and early nineties there were only F1,F2,Bears,Senior production,600 production,250 production, 125gp and sidecars that had a national championship and they all ran at the same championship rounds.Now theres Classic senior and junior,Pre 72 post classic senior and Junior,Pre 82 post classic senior and junior,Pre 89 post classic senior,Junior,classic sidecars,Post classic sidecars,Superbike,600 sports production,F3,Protwins,125gp,Bears and sidecars.Thats 10 more championship classes now than there was back then and only 6 of those classes run at our National rounds.Imagine if some of those other classes were brought in.How many riders would there be at the Nationals then ???Without doing any research Id be confident too wager there are atleast the same amount of people if not more roadracing in NZ now than there were then.

Ok , I looked up a couple of old Two wheeler programs(4th round of nationals run by the vic club) that have somehow survived a few moves over the years, and back in feb 86 they ran 10 different classes, with 7 classes being National Championship ones, those being :
Sidecars
125cc racing
Formula 1
250cc Production
Formula 2
Senior Production
Junior Production

A total of 31 races over the two days

The other classes they ran were:
Classics ( one race Sat only)
Bears
B Grade (clubmans) (sat only)

The 1988 was the same format of classes with the addition of formula three,and the dropping of 125cc racing, from the championship classes. B grade(clubmans was not run at this meeting) A teams race event was also run giving a total of 28 races.

Attached is a scan of the race schedule from the programs, the one on the left is the 1986 one.

[wharfy]

I notice the program mentions "prize money". I was talking to Ginger Molloy at the Road Race Spectacular and he said that in his day* every meeting paid prize money.

* His day isn't over actually he dorked everyone at Pearoa in the classics.

[Str8 Jacket]

I VMCC have done Streetstocks before. This time they tried something different. Granted, it didn't work. Streetstocks aren't the best adverts at National meets. Damn right about full classes and helping those starting racing. That's why they should be treated the same as Clubmans. (Not disdain or anything like that - just as a novice class. Not really National level stuff.) I have no idea on a substitute for Nationals though...

Yep and then there is another way of looking at it.

You want numbers, you guy's are complaining you dont get them. Get the "newbie" racers hooked on the Nationals from the beginning. Scrap the support class and allow maybe even half the laps for that boring Street stock race, get them hooked and as they move up the classes they will most likely be aiming for the Nationals every year in their respective classes.

OR

Keep complaining about the lack of numbers and dismiss Streetstock cause its boring and dont get the supprt.

I know for a fact just about all Vic Club streetstock racers would have entered the Manfeild round and I know of 5 riders from the South Island that wanted to compete at Manfeild but had no class.....

[cowpoos]

why the hell isn't streetstock a national class???

Because if you got nationals lenght races....you would probally take half of sunday to complete them!!!....nah just joking...

Probally because its not that interesting to the specators...unfortunatly

[Billy]

Ok , I looked up a couple of old Two wheeler programs(4th round of nationals run by the vic club) that have somehow survived a few moves over the years, and back in feb 86 they ran 10 different classes, with 7 classes being National Championship ones, those being :
Sidecars
125cc racing
Formula 1
250cc Production
Formula 2
Senior Production
Junior Production

A total of 31 races over the two days

The other classes they ran were:
Classics ( one race Sat only)
Bears
B Grade (clubmans) (sat only)

The 1988 was the same format of classes with the addition of formula three,and the dropping of 125cc racing, from the championship classes. B grade(clubmans was not run at this meeting) A teams race event was also run giving a total of 28 races.

Attached is a scan of the race schedule from the programs, the one on the left is the 1986 one.

Yip,I know.I was there entered in Junior Production.Im thinking you didnt read the post properly.The point was that the riders are now spread over 18 championships instead of 7 and that a lot of those championships dont take any part of the national series and that is a contributing factor to the smaller numbers.

The only reason I have been given for streetstock not being given National championship status is that there are no new models available.Suzuki NZ were keen as too run a seies about 5 yrs ago when I approached them,In fact there was talk of them paying someone too do so,But they couldnt get any stock as the Asian market was taking all the bikes they could produce.Has anybody approached MNZ lately ???

[Goblin]

Couple of questions.... was there prize money up for grabs at previous National rounds? Was the prize money forefeited on the promise of TV coverage? And was there any TV coverage ever aired?

[Skunk]

Yep and then there is another way of looking at it.
You want numbers, you guy's are complaining you dont get them. Get the "newbie" racers hooked on the Nationals from the beginning. Scrap the support class and allow maybe even half the laps for that boring Street stock race, get them hooked and as they move up the classes they will most likely be aiming for the Nationals every year in their respective classes.
OR
Keep complaining about the lack of numbers and dismiss Streetstock cause its boring and dont get the supprt.As I said before, I don't think you can do a Nationals meeting without having done three Club races.
Also I don't have anything against Streetstock; quite the opposite. But the state of some of the bikes leaves something to be desired... The racing can be very good. It's just that this year VMCC did something that a lot of racers had asked for. Guess they shouldn't do what racers ask for huh? :laugh:


Probally because its not that interesting to the specators...unfortunatlyI think it's good racing. What made Nationals good this year was the racing instead of the circulating.


The only reason I have been given for streetstock not being given National championship status is that there are no new models available. Suzuki NZ were keen as too run a seies about 5 yrs ago when I approached them, in fact there was talk of them paying someone too do so, but they couldnt get any stock as the Asian market was taking all the bikes they could produce.I think that is now a permanent problem.
What do we do to advance Streetstock should be the question. VMCC have tried 250cc four strokes.

[Str8 Jacket]

As I said before, I don't think you can do a Nationals meeting without having done three Club races.


I have done way more than 3 club races. Like I said we (Malcolm and I) could have easily entered down south. Funny that they dont seem to get "up in arms" as much as the Nth Islanders re numbers... Like I said earlier, we will support the South Island National meeting next year...


Guess they shouldn't do what racers ask for huh? :laugh:


Maybe this is the problem...

[roogazza]

I notice the program mentions "prize money". I was talking to Ginger Molloy at the Road Race Spectacular and he said that in his day* every meeting paid prize money.

* His day isn't over actually he dorked everyone at Pearoa in the classics.

Now that brought a knowing smile . G.

[Kevin G]

I am amazed, the NZRRC heads to NZ's biggest and so we are told best city in NZ with the most people and the most money (bla bla)and you can't get enough entries! un-bloody-believable.

Way down here in the murky, cold, wet and as we are told "backward" south we had three absolutley dynamite rounds of racing with (as has been mentioned) massive fields of streetstock and also lots of recent street stock graduates feeding into 125, F3, Pro Twin and other classes.
This has all been generated by the clubs and individuals down here getting off their arses and actually getting involved in putting bums on seats in the development/learning class of streetstock.

I have heard the moans and groans about "would sooner watch paint dry than see 150's at Puke" this attitude is part of the problem. As competitors and as organisers we need to stop and think about how do we get newbies into this sport and it has to come with a development class with committed mentors/trainers that give a dam and are passionate about this cause not just open the gates and let the kids ride around. This has happened in the south and look at the results:
The following list is not intended to be complete but it is the names of riders in this years nationals (full and part) that have come thru or been involved with South Island club based road race training/streetstock
Cameron Jones, Alastair Hoogenboezem, Avalon Biddle, Tim McArthur, Eric Oliver Maxwell, Nick Cain, Gregor Stevens, Gordon Hastings, Colin Hastings, Tom Boss, Wade Vanderarden, Patrick Jones, Vic Tinning, Will Montgomery, James Hoogenboezem....I am sure I have missed some. This is pretty bloody amazing all from the work of a very small number of very passionate people with committed clubs behind them who have purchased bikes, gear and offer subsidised training opportunites.

Yes recent times are hard but this is when the fruits of years of work are seen.

For anyone that was at last years MNZ conference the road race workshop agreed that most important thing for the sport of road racing going forward was youth development programs and mentoring etc...What has been happening up north with the clubs? Can anyone give us slow backward types down here an update? With the exception of the good work Steve and crew are doing with Moto Academy I am unaware of any club based programs.

Sorry some of you find streetstock boring to watch, personally I find in bloody great, the size of the smiles at the end says it all. I would also add it is bloody rewarding putting something back into the sport that has given me so much enjoyment over the years.

Kevin Goddard
Otago.

[Str8 Jacket]

Sorry some of you find streetstock boring to watch, personally I find in bloody great, the size of the smiles at the end says it all. I would also add it is bloody rewarding putting something back into the sport that has given me so much enjoyment over the years.

Kevin Goddard
Otago.

I love you Kevin :love:

I know I have not quoted all your post but this is exactly what I was trying to say earlier. You have to get people hooked early and alot of awesome riders come from street stock. I agree with everything you say and we will see you next year! :yes:

[Billy]

Bloody well said Kevin,The biggest problem we face with the Actrix series and streetstock is getting suitable tracktime,The constraints at Manfeild and Taupo regarding time are quite severe,I have been trying too work through this problem with a Vic club exec member.I have also spoken with Brian Bernard,Jay Lawrence and I know a number of other experienced riders are keen too help with rider training,However it always comes back too tracktime.I think we may have something sorted for this years series but as yet havent heard back.Last year I offered a free ride for the last round of the Actrix series and ended up having too contact someone too ride it as there were NO takers (good on you Maduckfor getting out there).I have also offered 1 on 1 rider training on this site and still no takers and have also purchased another 150 so I can do the Actrix series as an observer only in this class.But theres only so much 1 person can do and Im not sure theres much more I can do without some serious input from a club

[Mystic13]

Someone mentioned that this was what was needed for the whole thing to be successful;


1)spectators
2)riders
3)organisers
4)promotion
5)sponsors

It seems to me you need;

- good communication between the bunch.
- a clear plan and outcome.
- someone to tap the resources available.

As a spectator I'm wanting to get value for money and to enjoy myself. I'm looking for a good day out and having a family I'm looking for a good family day out.

Communication with spectators is pretty poor.

I'm wondering if you either need to get a group of people together who represent the parties and have a good go at communicating with everyone and finding out what they all want, then setting about creating that. Someone will have to take a punt on the investment needed.

Let's face it getting a few more bikes won't draw more spectators if they don't get an entertaining day out, if the facilities and food are crap and you don't communicate with them.

Alternatively you need a promoter to take things over. Making decisions by committee and managing volunteers is apparently always challenging.

Paeroa was a great day out and I bumped into a friend who rides but drove down. He didn't have anywhere to store his gear so thought "take the car". Apparently he couldn't find anything on gear storage on the bots site.

I agree blaming people for things not working isn't useful so the opposite seems to get together and figure out what you do want. Then plan for it.

If you look at this whole thing as a business you'd have to say it's well and truly broken.

And a last comment. Sloan, my son loves the motorcycle poster he picked up at Paeroa. That one poster was a highlight for him and he's now got that plastered on his wall with "LG" all over it. Paeroa ticked a lot of boxes for us as spectators.

So what would the whole package look like if you picked your best outcome.

[Skunk]

I have done way more than 3 club races. Like I said we (Malcolm and I) could have easily entered down south. Funny that they dont seem to get "up in arms" as much as the Nth Islanders re numbers... Like I said earlier, we will support the South Island National meeting next year.I wasn't talking about you specifically. I know your crash, opps, I mean race experience :lol:Some of the Streetstock and Clubmans riders have not done three club rounds. This would reduce numbers - but not much though. I feel some riders are riding a class above what they can afford to run if they're going to do Nationals. Others see Nationals as needing to enter all rounds or it's not worth bothering.

I don't have any problem with any class - just the people who say one thing and then do another. Then blame someone else for why they didn't do it. It helps no one.

[Str8 Jacket]

I wasn't talking about you specifically. I know your crash, opps, I mean race experience :lol:Some of the Streetstock and Clubmans riders have not done three club rounds. This would reduce numbers - but not much though. I feel some riders are riding a class above what they can afford to run if they're going to do Nationals. Others see Nationals as needing to enter all rounds or it's not worth bothering.

I don't have any problem with any class - just the people who say one thing and then do another. Then blame someone else for why they didn't do it. It helps no one.

Dont get personal. I had one crash on a race track, one, once. What you are saying doesnt make sense at all - What about the size of the fields down south, they would have had to have done more than 3 races too, hmm?
Again I bring you back to - "why is no one entering our race".... Cause we didnt have a bloody class but we would have entered and as I said there is alot of us. You probably would have had another 20 (at least entries)...

What's not happening is people are not listening. People are saying, yes we do the club rounds cause the size of the classes are great etc etc but when it comes to Nationals most people (who are sponsorless) have to make a decision. Street racing or Nationals.
I get it, people arent made of $$.

[Skunk]

Dont get personal. I had one crash on a race track, one, once. Apologies. T'was meant as a joke. Hence the smiley.

I give up.

[CHET]

I am a racer and my reasons for not raceing are simple not enough in the budget and not enough time.Believe me i would love to do more races but its just not going to happen at the moment,i can afford to do the vmcc series but this uses my whole budget, if i can do more raceing this year i will.
I do not believe most people wont race because they may be beaten :headbang:

[Biggles08]

Its interesting that in fact it is so much more expensive to do a national round than a club race....why is that? Do they penalize us the racers for the added extra cost of promoting the event (if in fact there is extra promotion) rather than other means??(not that I know what those are.) But, my point is...its odd that they want more to enter, but it appears the reason people are not is because of the added cost and yet they hike the entry price trying to cover costs...seems a bit arse about face to me. I think they should be encouraging more racers to enter by keeping entry fees to a minimum. This may help overall with both getting more entries and covering cost's for each club holding the even. my 2c worth anyway.

[suzuki21]

The very last thing the sport needs is more classes,Formula 400/5 year old 600s what next??A special class for people born on the 29th of Feb or maybe all those with blonde hair FFS.How much cheaper do you suppose its going too be to race a 5yr old 600???

I reckon ditch all the classes as there is way too many, and have one class for hot chicks in tight leathers. Scrutineering and gear check is to be done in coleslaw.

[Matt Bleck]

Has anyone seen or heard any form of advertising for any of the National round's this year?

[Biggles08]

Has anyone seen or heard any form of advertising for any of the National round's this year?
nope......

[Burrt Badger]

ts interesting that in fact it is so much more expensive to do a national round than a club race....why is that? Do they penalize us the racers for the added extra cost of promoting the event (if in fact there is extra promotion) rather than other means??(not that I know what those are.) But, my point is...its odd that they want more to enter, but it appears the reason people are not is because of the added cost and yet they hike the entry price trying to cover costs...seems a bit arse about face to me. I think they should be encouraging more racers to enter by keeping entry fees to a minimum. This may help overall with both getting more entries and covering cost's for each club holding the even. my 2c worth anyway.

Biggles. Championships =Three day event. Three days track hire, three days Paramedics fees, three days PA hire, three days radio hire etc etc. Add into that that some circuit owners charge more for track hire for National Events than they do for club level events. The entry fees are as low as is feasible, but the clubs are not there to make a loss on their race meetings

[Biggles08]

Biggles. Championships =Three day event. Three days track hire, three days Paramedics fees, three days PA hire, three days radio hire etc etc. Add into that that some circuit owners charge more for track hire for National Events than they do for club level events. The entry fees are as low as is feasible, but the clubs are not there to make a loss on their race meetings

Fair call...but I will only be on the track for two days for that $320 entry fee....the Friday will be an extra $85 if I wanted to practice that day too. The $320 includes the transponder hire granted....but $250 for two days on the track is still more than say $170 as it normally would be ($85 per day).

[Kevin G]

Has anyone seen or heard any form of advertising for any of the National round's this year?

Yip, seen the adverts on TV and heard them on the radio (The Rock).

Given the very limited budget the road race commission was given to run the event this year I think they have done a bloody good job.
I understand that they got $10,000 less than what they budgeted on and I understand this was held or not granted by MNZ to the road race commssion.

In the next breath I will say that I also think the promotion could be better and I am sure you would not get any disagreement from anyone including the road race commission on this but it costs and who pays? Maybe the clubs who run the events can get the local papers interested by running features on local riders or teams competing and see what funds can be raisied locally to help support the road race commissions advertising, at the end of the day if the gate takings are up the hosting club will also stand to gain.
Again this is where youngsters coming through can help, believe me the media are much more interested in a 16 year old going places than a 40 something racer! No offence to the 40 somethings as I am one as well!

I know some marketing type people have already commented on this issue so perhaps they might like to talk to Paul Stewart the Road Race Commisioner at Pukekohe and share some ideas and thoughts about how we can get better value or wider appeal.

Kevin Goddard
Otago

[Mishy]

........... Three days track hire, three days Paramedics fees, three days PA hire, three days radio hire etc etc. Add into that that some circuit owners charge more for track hire for National Events than they do for club level events. The entry fees are as low as is feasible, but the clubs are not there to make a loss on their race meetings

All good points indeed :) sadly, the travel and accomodation are the biggest pain. Roughly $400 in entry fees for three days isn't that awefull - hey. it's only one rear tyre ! Compare that to the travel, food, and accomodation for a couple of people for a bunch of nights. Our budget for four people to do the south island was just stupid compared to entry fees.

[Skunk]

Posters in all the bike shops and ads on The Rock.

[Shaun]

All good points indeed :) sadly, the travel and accomodation are the biggest pain. Roughly $400 in entry fees for three days isn't that awefull - hey. it's only one rear tyre ! Compare that to the travel, food, and accomodation for a couple of people for a bunch of nights. Our budget for four people to do the south island was just stupid compared to entry fees.



Only because you all eat to many Pies

[Burrt Badger]

Fair call...but I will only be on the track for two days for that $320 entry fee....the Friday will be an extra $85 if I wanted to practice that day too. The $320 includes the transponder hire granted....but $250 for two days on the track is still more than say $170 as it normally would be ($85 per day).

The budget to run the Pukekohe round is around $55 000. That was the figure mentioned at Paeroa riders briefing. That's the costs. That is also a hell of a lot for a "Club" made up of volunteers, to risk.

[Biggles08]

The budget to run the Pukekohe round is around $55 000. That was the figure mentioned at Paeroa riders briefing. That's the costs. That is also a hell of a lot for a "Club" made up of volunteers, to risk.

I agree Burtt Badger but my point was not that the club should 'risk' this cost rather that it appears the racers who enter are wearing the brunt of that initial cost/risk. I'm really not sure if I'm correct in this its just a point as to why riders are thinking twice about entering...its simply too much money for most of us. Like I said...If I enter round 5 I'm pretty certain it will be a bill in excess of $1000 for me....that's a lot for one weekend wouldn't you say?

[svs]

just got this email from AMCC. Cheers Guys.



Hi all

Wow! What great racing at Paeroa last weekend and now it is on to Pukekohe
Park for the final round of the NZ Superbike Championship on 6-7-8 March
2009. The rumours are going around that the meeting has been cancelled and
considering just a few days ago we had only 39 National Class and 14 Post
Classic entries, it wasn't looking too flash but the meeting is going ahead
regardless. The Executive Committee of the AMCC wants to thank all those
competitors who have entered the meeting already for supporting the club,
the National Championship series and the series sponsors.

For those who are thinking about entering the meeting, entries are still
open. Entries will close next Wednesday 4th March at 5pm. We will waive the
late entry fee. The more bikes we have on the circuit, the better we will
all look on the TV coverage and the better the show for the spectators.

The entry form and supplementary regulations are attached to the email.

Camping will be available at the circuit on Friday and Saturday nights only.
We will have a security guard at the gate from 6pm to 8am in the morning.
Showers will be available under the main grandstand from 6am to 9 am in the
morning and 6pm to 9 pm in the evening on Friday night, Saturday morning and
night and Sunday morning.

For those who are staying over or want an early start at the circuit,
breakfast will be available in the main grandstand 7.30 to 9.30am at $10.00
per person - great value for a good hearty breakfast.

There has been a typo in the race programme for Saturday. Signon will start
at 8am to 9:30am. Rider's briefing 9:40 and practice will start at 10:00.

[svr]

$250 for two days on the track is still more than say $170 as it normally would be ($85 per day).

So? - thats only another $80 total to do a national round! And if you work it out entry fees represent a very small part of the racing budget.

This discussion was done to death before the manfield round - Basically it comes back to the reality that racers would rather get top 3 or 5 club racing in the winter (brrr) than get their arses kicked at the nats.
Lets just fess up aye?

[svs]

I agree Burtt Badger but my point was not that the club should 'risk' this cost rather that it appears the racers who enter are wearing the brunt of that initial cost/risk. I'm really not sure if I'm correct in this its just a point as to why riders are thinking twice about entering...its simply too much money for most of us. Like I said...If I enter round 5 I'm pretty certain it will be a bill in excess of $1000 for me....that's a lot for one weekend wouldn't you say?

Go for it - it's only money :mellow:

Bike racing is still a cheap form of motorsport and NZ is still cheaper than the rest of the civilised world. (last i looked it was about NZ$350 to enter a club round (2 8 lap races) in the UK)

[Biggles08]

So? - thats only another $80 total to do a national round! And if you work it out entry fees represent a very small part of the racing budget.

This discussion was done to death before the manfield round - Basically it comes back to the reality that racers would rather get top 3 or 5 club racing in the winter (brrr) than get their arses kicked at the nats.
Lets just fess up aye?

Bollocks svr....I entered Manfield and was very happy to have my arse spanked by the very best of the best....and loved every second of it (hmmmm...maybe i should buy a honda). If i do not enter Puke round it will solely be because I cannot afford it. The difference is club rounds generally are not a whole weekend of racing and as such work out cheaper on the whole....even if percentage wise there is bugger all difference in time on track vs dollars spent.

[Biggles08]

Go for it - it's only money :mellow:

Bike racing is still a cheap form of motorsport and NZ is still cheaper than the rest of the civilised world. (last i looked it was about NZ$350 to enter a club round (2 8 lap races) in the UK)

you are right Phil and I am working on trying to find some support so i can... BUT simply put, If i don't get any I won't be entering cause my bank would be very upset when I can't pay my mortgage this month.

[Tony.OK]

very happy to have my arse spanked by the very best of the best....and loved every second of it (hmmmm...maybe i should buy a honda). .

:Oi:........................oh come to think of it...you're right:hug:

[Biggles08]

:Oi:........................oh come to think of it...you're right:hug:

well we do like the same rubber T!!! :laugh:

[FROSTY]

Heres the rub guys n gals. You lot are all saying MNZ this and MNZ that.
YES MNZ are indeed the NAME on the event

BUT every national round has to be funded by the individual club that organises the event.
So Vic club had to fund the Manfeild round and AMCC has to fund the Pukie round.
Now last time I looked To rent pukie was $4000 a DAY for a casual hire. -three day rental will cost $12000
add to that that for a race meeting you need 2 ambo's on the track at $650 A DAY each. (for a national meeting you need two medico's per unit and they must be lsu's )
Add to that about $5000 a day in other costs -RT's ,feeding marshalls fuel for recovery vehicles etc and you are up to a cost to the club of not far off $50000 --and Im being conservative
now you work that out --$50000 divided by WHAT covers the barest minimum costs then extract the $30 per transponder per day that mr gibbs charges.
AMCC although it is a club still has opperating costs in itself -so cannot afford year after year to make literally thousands of dollars loss for an event.
Thats the reality of the situation as I recall it

Incidently I recall 2 years ago mr Costello all but begging the powers that be to run the nats north TO south - AMCC has the highest cost to run a meeting yet also gets lumbered with being the poor sod doing tail end charlie year after year.
People Like codyoldracer why should they bother doing the last round when hes won the title already?? (and Im not suggesting he would skip it )
If you want to keep the nationals alive and well in NZ Id suggest one change should be as a minimum running ALTERNATELY North to south then south to north year about. Let pukie have one year with decent atendance then the next they might afford to take on the chin.

These are comments made off my own back working from a piss poor Frosty memory of $ numbers

[Brian d marge]

and you are up to a cost to the club of not far off $20000 --and Im being conservative

so thats 700 people at around 30 dollars each.... Wots there to keep the missus quiet and the kids happy..............

Paeroa , all the shops were open ...and I could get to a pub ..and then lie in the sun ,,,great day ( least thery were when I last went

oh and the grids were full ...and I got my share of classic bikes , and Motards ,,,,

Happily pay 30 dollars for some sideways action ........ ( dunno what the missus got up to ... she came back ....:doh:)

Stephen

[Kickaha]

Incidently I recall 2 years ago mr Costello all but begging the powers that be to run the nats north TO south - AMCC has the highest cost to run a meeting yet also gets lumbered with being the poor sod doing tail end charlie year after year.


What difference does it make, the cost will still be the same

It might be more to do with track availibilty than anything else

[Robert Taylor]

What difference does it make, the cost will still be the same

It might be more to do with track availibilty than anything else

Indeed , theres a lot of car stuff happening and undoubtedly motorcycle racing plays second fiddle because it pays way less money

[FROSTY]

The thing is you get bigger attendance at the beginning of the season than at the end.

[prettybillie]

Oooh yea,Now you got me.G strings compulsory

I'm in where do I sign up and who is going to pay my fees???? :clap:

[DEATH_INC.]

How much cheaper do you suppose its going too be to race a 5yr old 600???

Lots if you already have one....

[prettybillie]

Has anyone seen or heard any form of advertising for any of the National round's this year?

Not a thing! This reiterates Biggles question about what are the extreme extra costs covering......

[Billy]

Lots if you already have one....

So if youve got 1 why arent you racing it??? Dave Manuell has been doing the National rounds on a K2 GSXR and having a ball

[Wingnut]

The thing is you get bigger attendance at the beginning of the season than at the end.

Whats the reason/theory there? Why is there such a significant difference?

[Billy]

Lots if you already have one....

So if youve got 1 why arent you racing it??? Dave Manuell has been doing the National rounds on a K2 GSXR and having a ball,But of course its still gonna cost the same too enter as a new 1 and its still gonna use tyres and fuel and all the other consumables a new is 1 so hows that gonna be cheaper.WAKE UP and smell the coffee buying the bike is the cheap bit

[prettybillie]

Go for it - it's only money :mellow:

Bike racing is still a cheap form of motorsport and NZ is still cheaper than the rest of the civilised world. (last i looked it was about NZ$350 to enter a club round (2 8 lap races) in the UK)

Biggles - sounds like SVS wants to anti up to cover the cost of the weekend for you :laugh:

[DEATH_INC.]

So if youve got 1 why arent you racing it??? Dave Manuell has been doing the National rounds on a K2 GSXR and having a ball,But of course its still gonna cost the same too enter as a new 1 and its still gonna use tyres and fuel and all the other consumables a new is 1 so hows that gonna be cheaper.WAKE UP and smell the coffee buying the bike is the cheap bit
No it's not. You can scratch together 5-600 bux to do a club race if you need to, but finding 10g ain't so easy....

[DEATH_INC.]

Oh yeh, and mine's an older 120hp 750....prolly not the safest thing to run at puke with the 200hp thous

[Kickaha]

The thing is you get bigger attendance at the beginning of the season than at the end.

I would think that may be right if you're talking a 4-5 round series run at one track, but 5 rounds spread over the whole of the country I really doubt it

Auckland should have the good figures no matter what time it is run at simply because of population base

[DEATH_INC.]

So if youve got 1 why arent you racing it??? Dave Manuell has been doing the National rounds on a K2 GSXR and having a ball,But of course its still gonna cost the same too enter as a new 1 and its still gonna use tyres and fuel and all the other consumables a new is 1 so hows that gonna be cheaper.WAKE UP and smell the coffee buying the bike is the cheap bit

Why do you not hear what I'm saying. I'm a rider and I'm saying I cannot afford a new (read half competitive) bike. You're not hearing me. Listen to the riders.
I know you cannot help this, but it IS a good example of the lack of listening going on.
Plenty are saying they can't afford to run. Listen. Telling them they are wrong really doesn't fix it.
(Oh, and I do get some of it is not anything that can be helped by the organising club/mnz)

[DEATH_INC.]

I would think that may be right if you're talking a 4-5 round series run at one track, but 5 rounds spread over the whole of the country I really doubt it

Auckland should have the good figures no matter what time it is run at simply because of population base
You'd think so, but a shit track and facilities takes care of that...

[Clivoris]

Track hire for a nationals round is CONSIDERABLY more at Manfield. Not sure exactly why but think it has something to do with charging a fee at the gate. The fact that we have a gate also involves extra volunteer and other costs. The promotion that is done (whether you think it is adequate or not) costs. More promotion would cost more.
I certainly can't afford to race all the rounds of the Nationals. I chose not to race the Manfield round simply because it was too expensive. I choose to spend my racing budget in more affordable places. I'm not afraid of getting my arse kicked and handed to me on a platter. I consider it to be the first law of apprenticeship. I'm just not going to pay $100 more than elsewhere, to get it done.
I also think that comparing street races with the Nationals rounds is unfair. They are very different products.
I wonder what would happen if we ran a Nationals round in the same style as an Actrix Winter Series round? No gate = cheaper entries? Forget about the promotion because it's about giving racers an opportunity to race. As long as we are paying the bills, who cares who comes to watch? The racing at Manfield was truly exciting at the front of the fields, but would have been even better if we had full grids as well.
BTW. Like other attractive motorcyclists of taste, I use Actrix as my interweb provider.

[Skunk]

No it's not. You can scratch together 5-600 bux to do a club race if you need to, but finding 10g ain't so easy....Can you clarify the 10g please? What are you including over a and above a club race? Apart from the extra on the entry fee the costs should be the same. In this case $1100-1300 dollars... ($5-600+100 extra entry costs times 2 days). What am I missing?


Why do you not hear what I'm saying. I'm a rider and I'm saying I cannot afford a new (read half competitive) bike. You're not hearing me. Listen to the riders.
I know you cannot help this, but it IS a good example of the lack of listening going on.
Plenty are saying they can't afford to run. Listen. Telling them they are wrong really doesn't fix it.
(Oh, and I do get some of it is not anything that can be helped by the organising club/mnz)So if it's Nationals you will only enter if you have a competitive bike. Otherwise whatever you have will do for Club level? Don't get me wrong - I'm not having a go at you - I'm trying to get my head around your thinking.

[White trash]

Can you clarify the 10g please? What are you including over a and above a club race? Apart from the extra on the entry fee the costs should be the same. In this case $1100-1300 dollars... ($5-600+100 extra entry costs times 2 days). What am I missing?

So if it's Nationals you will only enter if you have a competitive bike. Otherwise whatever you have will do for Club level? Don't get me wrong - I'm not having a go at you - I'm trying to get my head around your thinking.
Firstly, I burned 4K last year at Puke in one meeting and that was only using three rear tyres and two fronts. Had I used the six of each I really would have liked to have used, that would easily chew ten grand.

In regards to Deaths other comments, I think he's more getting at the fact that his ten year old bike, is not elligible in the National Production Superbike rules.

[cowpoos]

Oh yeh, and mine's an older 120hp 750....prolly not the safest thing to run at puke with the 200hp thous

She'll be post classic soon!! don't sell her yet mate!!

[DEATH_INC.]

Can you clarify the 10g please?
Sorry, I'm talking about the cost for a replacement bike (billy stated it was the cheap part), and a few seasons old one at that. Something competitive would be around 40g I would think?
But even with that, I don't have a spare $1300 lying around either...

[DEATH_INC.]

In regards to Deaths other comments, I think he's more getting at the fact that his ten year old bike, is not elligible in the National Production Superbike rules.
Exactly. Plus what I said about it being a bit dangerous at Puke.

[DEATH_INC.]

So if it's Nationals you will only enter if you have a competitive bike.
No, but not on mine at puke....if there was a round at taupo tho....

[ajturbo]

I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying do away with Clubmans at Club level or at National level? I'm not to sure you can just enter a Nationals event without having raced before which could be a hitch.
VMCC ran the open twins to get all those RS250's, TZ's, BEARs, Posties and all those other twins out there. You saw the result - is $250 entry too much for a one-off chance to race the old (possibly now-without-a-class) bike? I didn't think so. But hardly anyone took the opportunity.
hey skunk... that is the MAIN reason i didn't enter the race, it just cost tooo much...i simply couldn't afford it, plus i would have needed 2 sets of tires on top ..!!

was it 3 races we would have got ...?

$250 + (nearly)$800 for tires for 3 races.... yeah right.

[Skunk]

No it's not. You can scratch together 5-600 bux to do a club race if you need to, but finding 10g ain't so easy....


Firstly, I burned 4K last year at Puke in one meeting and that was only using three rear tyres and two fronts. Had I used the six of each I really would have liked to have used, that would easily chew ten grand.

In regards to Deaths other comments, I think he's more getting at the fact that his ten year old bike, is not elligible in the National Production Superbike rules.


Sorry, I'm talking about the cost for a replacement bike (billy stated it was the cheap part), and a few seasons old one at that. Something competitive would be around 40g I would think?
But even with that, I don't have a spare $1300 lying around either...
Thanks guys. I'm trying to think of solutions. I'm getting the feeling that it's not the entry cost that's the big issue - it's the competitive bike cost and it's running costs.
Nationals are two day events. Would one day events help? :mellow: I don't think that's an answer though. It doesn't address the competitive bike issue.

If the costs came down to Club event levels would you enter even if you weren't on a competitive bike?

[Skunk]

This is what I don't understand (yet). Many will do track days and club events and then say that it costs too much to do a National meet. Apart from it being two days together and $100 more to enter what's the difference?
Do tyres not wear at a track day or Club event? :shifty:

[burtsidecar16]

hi guys and girls I just got an email tonight from the great people at the auckland motorcycle club saying the meeting is going ahead reguardless and the more entries they get the better and they have waived the late entry fee so everyone whos thinking about gat moving they work bloody hard for all of us to go racing so lets help them by all entering

[rsnut]

I agree Shunk - whats the big difference between club racing & Nationals ? Get a bike you can afford to run in the class of your choice, do your budget, make a plan & do it !

If your bike eats tyres, its the bike you chose to run, do you have the budget ?

It's your choice of bike, your budget, you choose the class, your satisfaction.

If you choose to run in small pond with the local fish that's fine, if you choose to run in the big pond (NZ's not really that big !) to measure yourself on the National scale that's fine too.

As we come from the south, its hard to understand the problems the clubs are having up north with lack of local support - bring on streetstock & the likes, it was way the biggest class at the SI rounds. I saw only fun,smiles, hard racing & no complaints !

We're doing the full series again, boy does it lift your game - bring on Puke !

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

If the costs came down to Club event levels would you enter even if you weren't on a competitive bike?

Yes (if I had a race bike!). When I did have a race bike I weighed up doing the manfield round. I was looking at $400 entry for the 3 days. I would want new tyres, because its the nationals and I want to do the event justice, and spoil myself. So thats $1000 to cough up. Damn, thats 1/2 of my winter series budget blown in 3 days!! [insert tui slogan here]. Thats not even including gas, accomodation or food. It comes down to affordability. If you can afford to draw, lets just say, $1000 from your account and burn it in 3 days, then all power to you. If you cant, you cant race. With all due respect, its that simply. I would strongly suggest that the cost factor is the biggest thing stopping club riders from having a nudge.

[Billy]

Why do you not hear what I'm saying. I'm a rider and I'm saying I cannot afford a new (read half competitive) bike. You're not hearing me. Listen to the riders.
I know you cannot help this, but it IS a good example of the lack of listening going on.
Plenty are saying they can't afford to run. Listen. Telling them they are wrong really doesn't fix it.
(Oh, and I do get some of it is not anything that can be helped by the organising club/mnz)

Im not listening??You quoted me and stated it was cheaper too run a 5yr old 600 than it is a new 1 and Im telling you its not!!Read Jimmys post and understand he would have spent the same amount of money at that Puke meeting whether he was riding the WBP GSXR 1000 k7/8 or say for arguments sake Brian Bernards K4 Gsxr1000,The running costs are the same whether the bikes brand new or 5 years old and while we are on the subject the argument in this thread was about the shortage of riders at the Nationals not the $500-$600 club days you mentioned

[DEATH_INC.]

Im not listening??You quoted me and stated it was cheaper too run a 5yr old 600 than it is a new 1 and Im telling you its not!!
No, I didn't. I said it's cheaper to race the bike you already own. (Tho not in those words....)
I'm not gonna say the running costs are less, coz they aren't.

[DEATH_INC.]

Thanks guys. I'm trying to think of solutions.
Nationals are two day events. Would one day events help? :mellow:
Yes, I believe so. Less costs all round (accommodation track hire etc.) gotta help

[DEATH_INC.]

It doesn't address the competitive bike issue.

Don't put too much into my situation, if I had an older thou and the costs were less I may consider puke. The speed difference is just too great in my case at puke. I'd run a national if ya did one at Taupo on the old girl (and the cost wasn't prohibitive )

[Toot Toot]

Iand fanta]
The last nationals at puke....probally won't be remember for very long...

I will remember that meeting for ever.:(

[suzuki21]

Oh yeh, and mine's an older 120hp 750....prolly not the safest thing to run at puke with the 200hp thous

You would be suprised at how much power the big boys bikes arent putting out, dont believe in the rumours from riders that cant keep up.

[CHOPPA]

You would be suprised at how much power the big boys bikes arent putting out, dont believe in the rumours from riders that cant keep up.

I can tell you they are putting out more then mine mate! I wouldnt believe the shit someone called suzuki21 says when i can take the word of someone riding one of these bikes does....

[Maido]

I can tell you they are putting out more then mine mate! I wouldnt believe the shit someone called suzuki21 says when i can take the word of someone riding one of these bikes does....


Hey Choppa, John has is K7 thou for sale, 185 ATW, give me a PM if you are after a little more horse!

[DEATH_INC.]

You would be suprised at how much power the big boys bikes arent putting out, dont believe in the rumours from riders that cant keep up.
I've ridden Gixser's monster, and it's prolly nowhere near the fastest out there, no, my old girl only does 250-260 down the back of puke, i believe that's not safe with guys doing around 320...
(look goddamit, you guys are making it look like I have ed's excuse book.....I really can't afford it, and my bike isn't eligible either ok?)

[Rcktfsh]

Yep and then there is another way of looking at it.

You want numbers, you guy's are complaining you dont get them. Get the "newbie" racers hooked on the Nationals from the beginning. Scrap the support class and allow maybe even half the laps for that boring Street stock race, get them hooked and as they move up the classes they will most likely be aiming for the Nationals every year in their respective classes.

OR

Keep complaining about the lack of numbers and dismiss Streetstock cause its boring and dont get the supprt.

I know for a fact just about all Vic Club streetstock racers would have entered the Manfeild round and I know of 5 riders from the South Island that wanted to compete at Manfeild but had no class.....

well summed up, the streetstock class was great down south, big fields and good racing, similar to the old days of 250 prod which lets not forget is where slight/stroud/crafar all emerged from.

[Squid69]

Has anyone seen or heard any form of advertising for any of the National round's this year?

Yes, i did.

On Choppers flyer that i picked up at wanganui...

:niceone:

[Billy]

I've ridden Gixser's monster, and it's prolly nowhere near the fastest out there, no, my old girl only does 250-260 down the back of puke, i believe that's not safe with guys doing around 320...
(look goddamit, you guys are making it look like I have ed's excuse book.....I really can't afford it, and my bike isn't eligible either ok?)

And thats good that you realise the fact your bike is not gonna be competitive and would probably make things even more dangerous.If you can only afford or want too do the odd club day,Thats fine nobodys getting at you for that.Thats your decision,Hell thats all Im interested in as well.Ive done the National series 3 times and I know what it costs and the level of commitment required and I really dont want too go down that path again.However the argument was that it was all MNZs fault and while I would agree they have some shortcomings Paul Stewart and his team are doing the best they can with the budget they are given and the resources available too them and Im sure theyre getting sick and tired of being rubbished by the 200 plus riders that dont turn up too their meetings because theyre not commited enough.I mean at the end of the day you dont hear guys like Sloan or Eddy or Rhys Holmes or Greg Percival,Phil Snowdon complaining do we.Ive said it before and I will keep saying it,You only get out of the sport what you put in and its not gonna help by rubbishing the guys that make the effort too put the meetings on

[Str8 Jacket]

I mean at the end of the day you dont hear guys like Sloan or Eddy or Rhys Holmes or Greg Percival,Phil Snowdon complaining do we.Ive said it before and I will keep saying it,You only get out of the sport what you put in and its not gonna help by rubbishing the guys that make the effort too put the meetings on

These guy's are sponsored too remember. Most people I know cant afford to do all the club races, nationals and street racers. Also sometimes their sponsorship only goes for certain events and it aint necessarily the Nationals. They budget for the club rounds then have to choose between Nationals or street racing. The street races are only in the weekend and alot cheaper so that's why many choose. Those that get to do both are lucky!

The cheapest it gets is Streetstock racing and that will cost myself and koba $5500 EACH to do and that's just the South Island. People forget that competitors have to take annual leave or leave without pay in some cases. They have accomodation, food, travel $$ and all the costs associated with racing on top of that. I couldnt imagine the cost of racing a 400 let alone a 1000cc or 600cc bike while considering the above....

I think some people are forgetting that club events are run during the weekend. People are prepared to get up at stupid-o'clock to race for a weekend. They dont have to take annual leave and usually dont have to worry about accomodation etc etc.

I think that for most it really IS just about he money!!

[Shaun]

Hey Billy, be carefull mate, you might just say some thing sensible soon O NO!

Anyone, please explain how it was so much cheaper years ago to go racing, buy a bike, parts tyres fuel food accomodation etc etc

The true KIwi mentallity is DEAD

What ever happened to 2 jobs in a day, ya know, 12-16 hour working days

O that;s write, the computer came along and took away all our time, and MNZ makes it to hard to go to work, so it is all there fault

[svs]

These guy's are sponsored too remember.

Really?? tyrewarmers.co.nz (http://tyrewarmers.co.nz) is my business, it doesn't really make a profit but I need to promote it all I can. And I can use it to offset some of the costs of racing.

Actrix (http://www.actrix.co.nz/) is my employer. I don't get anything from them for racing the nationals (apart from them being really good about letting me take all my annual leave every January) Again I try and support them cos they support the VMCC winter series and host the vicclub site for free.

OK we get a good deal from Pirelli (http://http://www.pirellityre.com/web/motorcycle/default.page) for tyres. But I'm sure you would too if you put in an order for about 20 rears and 12 fronts (that's 2 riders for nationals) months in advance. Nationwide Accessories certainly get a lot of business through us.

Resene (http://www.resene.co.nz/) paints are on the bike cos that Greg's employer and they sprayed his bike for him. They helped him out, so we try and help them back.

There's certainly no one giving me money to go out and ride, and I understand that - I'm not at the front of the field with the press clamoring over my results. I just spend all my money on bike racing pretty much. That's my choice cos I enjoy it, I don't have kids (yet), don't have a flash car or a flash house, but do work in IT and have a reasonable salary - guess where the money goes. Yep I can't afford to do everything that I want to, but I know I'm never going to be a professional rider (hell, I'm old enough to retire from this sport now!)

As billy said - you get out of the sport what you put in. MNZ aren't going to do everything for you. Yes I think things could be improved, but it requires work on everyones behalf. Including the riders and sponsors as well as the organising clubs and MNZ.

I've seen the ads on TV and heard them on the Rock, I've seen LG and others advertise here and elsewhere. I seen the posters in loads of bike shops.

I'll be out there at Pukekohe - my PB there is way off the pace, but I'm sure I can improve. Hell I know what Sam Smith did there a few years ago on the bike I now own. The bike ain't new, but it's not slow. I work hard at trying to improve my riding cos really I know that it must be the rider that's causing the bike to lap 4 seconds a lap slower than it did with Sam on board. I have a target for Pukekohe. I'll let you know if I made it in just over a weeks time. :rockon:

Phil

[Biggles08]

I know that it must be the rider that's causing the bike to lap 4 seconds a lap slower than it did with Sam on board. I have a target for Pukekohe. I'll let you know if I made it in just over a weeks time. :rockon:

Phil

4 seconds a lap slower than Sam!!!:cry: your going to kick my arse too!!!!:confused:

[Str8 Jacket]

Really?? [

OK, well then you obviously have more money than me or more debt. Either way what I said still stands FOR THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE... I dont know about everyone else but motorcycles aint the only I have to pay for in my life just to eat live and breathe...

[Rcktfsh]

Hey Billy, be carefull mate, you might just say some thing sensible soon O NO!

Anyone, please explain how it was so much cheaper years ago to go racing, buy a bike, parts tyres fuel food accomodation etc etc

The true KIwi mentallity is DEAD

What ever happened to 2 jobs in a day, ya know, 12-16 hour working days

O that;s write, the computer came along and took away all our time, and MNZ makes it to hard to go to work, so it is all there fault

Yep that about sums it up..hate to sound like an old fart but i will anyway, in the early 80's 3.50 x 18 Metzler me33 sports where the tyre to have on your 250 from memory they cost about $120 each (if you where getting a deal) and my pay packet was $125.00 p/w. If you wanted to race then just as now you sacrificed other things.

[sidecar bob]

Hey Billy, be carefull mate, you might just say some thing sensible soon O NO!

Anyone, please explain how it was so much cheaper years ago to go racing, buy a bike, parts tyres fuel food accomodation etc etc

The true KIwi mentallity is DEAD

What ever happened to 2 jobs in a day, ya know, 12-16 hour working days

O that;s write, the computer came along and took away all our time, and MNZ makes it to hard to go to work, so it is all there fault

Hang on Shaun, youre bordering on sensible too, dont get too carried away mate.

[Biggles08]

OK, well then you obviously have more money than me or more debt. Either way what I said still stands FOR THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE... I dont know about everyone else but motorcycles aint the only I have to pay for in my life just to eat live and breathe...

Of course Str8 Jacket you are free to look for sponsors for your racing too. I get your point and it is valid, we all do this out of our own pocket to one degree or another (hell.. even the top boys have to sacrifice coin to race) but Shaun is right in saying the 'kiwi can do' attitude is dwindling. For the record I had secured a sponsor prior to even having completed in one race meeting! Its called networking.

But back on topic of this thread....the ONLY REASON I would not enter the Nationals round is down to one thing only....CASH! It has been suggested that the reason is because people don't want to be last....I really believe this is not the case...and in my circumstances I am doing everything I can to be able to enter...all the while fully expecting to be at the back of the pack.

[Str8 Jacket]

Of course Str8 Jacket you are free to look for sponsors for your racing too.......etc etc

But back on topic of this thread....the ONLY REASON I would not enter the Nationals round is down to one thing only....CASH!

Yep and I will be but even those that do have sponsors dont actually get enough sponsorship to afford to do the Naitonals either.

If you read that post I quite clearly state that people arent made of money and that is why they're are not doing it. I was saying the same thing as you... :stupid:

[Biggles08]

Yep and I will be but even those that do have sponsors dont actually get enough sponsorship to afford to do the Naitonals either.

If you read that post I quite clearly state that people arent made of money and that is why they're are not doing it. I was saying the same thing as you... :stupid:


lol...yes I did realize that bro :-)...I was more commenting on the fact that you said 'Sloan Ed etc were sponsored' incinuating that that was why they could do the Nats. However you are right...about that not being enough for some people.... and being sponsored is great, it helps out heeeeeeeeaaaaaps but in the end it comes down to how much action you are willing to make off your own back....then if you are doing things the right way your sponsors will notice and hopefully reward your effort.

[Skunk]

But back on topic of this thread....the ONLY REASON I would not enter the Nationals round is down to one thing only....CASH! It has been suggested that the reason is because people don't want to be last....I really believe this is not the case...and in my circumstances I am doing everything I can to be able to enter...all the while fully expecting to be at the back of the pack.


If you read that post I quite clearly state that people arent made of money and that is why they're are not doing it. I was saying the same thing as you... :stupid:
OK, I'll ask. only because I've never raced and I'm still not getting this.

Why is the cost of Nationals so different to the cost of, for example, two rounds of Actrix Winter Series?
If the Actrix series was two rounds longer you wouldn't do it?
Can you do it this year - as it's got two two day events?

I'm putting this to LOCAL riders who don't enter their LOCAL National round only. This is the bit I don't get.

Everyone is saying cost is the reason. Valid. But I don't get why.

[roogazza]

Anyone, please explain how it was so much cheaper years ago to go racing, buy a bike, parts tyres fuel food accomodation etc etc
The true KIwi mentallity is DEAD
What ever happened to 2 jobs in a day, ya know, 12-16 hour working days

Shaun, I think there are a lot of people on here that would be better off playing Tennis, their hearts are just not in it .
But then i guess, the rackets would be too expensive or the nets too high ! Gaz.

[Billy]

These guy's are sponsored too remember. Most people I know cant afford to do all the club races, nationals and street racers. Also sometimes their sponsorship only goes for certain events and it aint necessarily the Nationals. They budget for the club rounds then have to choose between Nationals or street racing. The street races are only in the weekend and alot cheaper so that's why many choose. Those that get to do both are lucky!

The cheapest it gets is Streetstock racing and that will cost myself and koba $5500 EACH to do and that's just the South Island. People forget that competitors have to take annual leave or leave without pay in some cases. They have accomodation, food, travel $$ and all the costs associated with racing on top of that. I couldnt imagine the cost of racing a 400 let alone a 1000cc or 600cc bike while considering the above....

I think some people are forgetting that club events are run during the weekend. People are prepared to get up at stupid-o'clock to race for a weekend. They dont have to take annual leave and usually dont have to worry about accomodation etc etc.

I think that for most it really IS just about he money!!

Yip,Its hard ,Always has been $5500.00 would have been around what I spent to do the Nationals back in 89 and I had a wife and three kids too feed and a mortgage too pay and a business to run and blah,blah,blah.But we did it with sheer hard work and dedication because that was all that mattered.Right through the 80s when Brian Bernard I were travelling too meetings together he was working 2 jobs and did so for years 7 at night til 7am at the Wanganui Chronicle then home for a snooze til 8am and off to Paragon motorcycles where he worked til 5pm then home for a sleep (2 hours) and back too the Chronicle and when he turned up at the track Saturday morning he had only slept for 3 of the last 24hrs,Shaun Harris went too Japan in the late 80s,When he landed there he had $200.00 in his pocket and nowhere too live or work,Aaron Slight spent a number of years on the dole in Australia begging for a decent ride before TKA picked him up,Sam Love has spent everything he has earned in the last 2 yrs on his SV and racing it,Jarrod and Dee Wintle took a huge mortgage on their house so Jarrod could do the Nationals this year.Nathan Spargo former F3 champ and frontrunner in 250 production use too max his credit card in excess of $10,000.00 every year so he could do the Nationals.and hundreds of others were doing likewise.Why did these people go to these extremes ?? Because they were DEDICATED.That was what they wanted too do and they did whatever it took to make it happen.What did MNZ do to help these people?Well they and the clubs put on the National series,Just like they do today.SOo whats changed?You work it out.Good on you Sloan,Eddy,Rhys,Greg and Phil and the many others who are commited enough too front up at the Nationals and good luck at Pukekohe

[Str8 Jacket]

lol...yes I did realize that bro :-)...I was more commenting on the fact that you said 'Sloan Ed etc were sponsored' incinuating that that was why they could do the Nats. However you are right...about that not being enough for some people.... and being sponsored is great, it helps out heeeeeeeeaaaaaps but in the end it comes down to how much action you are willing to make off your own back....then if you are doing things the right way your sponsors will notice and hopefully reward your effort.

Ah, yeah I probably sghould have expanded on that. I mean that some people are sponsored to a level where they have to compete in event xxx and xxx as part of their agreement with their sponsor. In this case then they *have * to compete even if it means mortgaging their homes or getting into large debt!

Anyway, as you were….

[cowpoos]

You would be suprised at how much power the big boys bikes arent putting out, dont believe in the rumours from riders that cant keep up.

Dunno about the yams and hondas...but the suzi's are putting out 195-200hp...definatly!! and good power to...not peaky.

[Billy]

Shaun, I think there are a lot of people on here that would be better off playing Tennis, their hearts are just not in it .
But then i guess, the rackets would be too expensive or the nets too high ! Gaz.

Brilliant!!Couldnt have put it better myself.The new Kiwi attitude appears too be.I probably could do it,But its easier too whinge and bleat til somebody takes the obstacles away. So lets do that.As Steve Bagshaw has already pointed out,Be careful what you wish for.If it becomes too easy then everybody will be doing it and the National meetings will become plagued with hold ups to clear up crash damage like the winter series do because half the riders dont have a clue what they are doing cause they never had too learn

[Skunk]

Yip,Its hard ,Always has been $5500.00 < snip >SOo whats changed?You work it out.Good on you Sloan,Eddy,Rhys,Greg and Phil and the many others who are commited enough too front up at the Nationals and good luck at Pukekohe
What can be done to help though?

[Biggles08]

OK, I'll ask. only because I've never raced and I'm still not getting this.

Why is the cost of Nationals so different to the cost of, for example, two rounds of Actrix Winter Series?
If the Actrix series was two rounds longer you wouldn't do it?
Can you do it this year - as it's got two two day events?

I'm putting this to LOCAL riders who don't enter their LOCAL National round only. This is the bit I don't get.

Everyone is saying cost is the reason. Valid. But I don't get why.

I guess there is no difference apart from the added cost on the entry fee...mind you, In club racing I think people use a lot more of their tires before biffing them out which makes it cheaper too Skunk.

For me, I haven't competed in the winter series but I plan to if I can afford it so no difference from my perspective.

I have done both rounds of PMCC summer series and that has been a lot cheaper than one round of the Nats...It was about (can't remember exactly) $200 entry fee at Manfield (including transponder hire) and I used one set of tires all weekend....that was including a practice day before race day that cost $50! (so $150 for race day and $50 for the practice day) So all up that weekend of racing cost me approx $700...Thats considerably cheaper than my $370 entry fee (because I was late) plus two sets of tires and an extra day off work and accomodation for the Nats round in Manfield....over $1000 in the end. See the difference now?

The level of competition means you need to spend more time preparing yourself and also more money on more tires / accomodation.

[Billy]

Reply deleted as requested

[Biggles08]

too many oo's in a lot of your too's Billy!:Pokey::banana:

hehehe

[Billy]

too many oo's in a lot of your too's Billy!:Pokey::banana:

hehehe

Yea,Well its not a perfect world eh LOL

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

Yip,Its hard ,Always has been $5500.00 would have been around what I spent to do the Nationals back in 89 and I had a wife and three kids too feed and a mortgage too pay and a business to run and blah,blah,blah.But we did it with sheer hard work and dedication because that was all that mattered.Right through the 80s when Brian Bernard I were travelling too meetings together he was working 2 jobs and did so for years 7 at night til 7am at the Wanganui Chronicle then home for a snooze til 8am and off to Paragon motorcycles where he worked til 5pm then home for a sleep (2 hours) and back too the Chronicle and when he turned up at the track Saturday morning he had only slept for 3 of the last 24hrs,Shaun Harris went too Japan in the late 80s,When he landed there he had $200.00 in his pocket and nowhere too live or work,Aaron Slight spent a number of years on the dole in Australia begging for a decent ride before TKA picked him up,Sam Love has spent everything he has earned in the last 2 yrs on his SV and racing it,Jarrod and Dee Wintle took a huge mortgage on their house so Jarrod could do the Nationals this year.Nathan Spargo former F3 champ and frontrunner in 250 production use too max his credit card in excess of $10,000.00 every year so he could do the Nationals.and hundreds of others were doing likewise.Why did these people go to these extremes ?? Because they were DEDICATED.That was what they wanted too do and they did whatever it took to make it happen.What did MNZ do to help these people?Well they and the clubs put on the National series,Just like they do today.SOo whats changed?You work it out.Good on you Sloan,Eddy,Rhys,Greg and Phil and the many others who are commited enough too front up at the Nationals and good luck at Pukekohe

Cheers uncle Bill. speaking of myself, that kick up the arse is just what was needed :shifty:...

[Sketchy_Racer]

Yes, I believe so. Less costs all round (accommodation track hire etc.) gotta help

No I can't say I agree with you there mate.

We don't want to 'dumb down' the premier series of NZ. It needs to be something more than just another club day.

I think at the end of it, 90% of riders are in it for the fun, and they do it as cheaply as possible. A hobby.

When $$ gets tight, hobbies are the first things to go, because they are not a necessity.

Then there are others, and racing to them is a lifestyle, and they can't live without it, and those are the sorts of people that will do everything they physically can do to get the $$ to go racing. 100% commitment, and you need 100% commitment if you want to persue it.

[Toast]

Thats considerably cheaper than my $370 entry fee (because I was late) plus two sets of tires and an extra day off work and accomodation for the Nats round in Manfield....over $1000 in the end. See the difference now?

The level of competition means you need to spend more time preparing yourself and also more money on more tires / accomodation.

What's this two sets of tyres business you plus bastard? There are only two races and you can use your old tyres for practise on the Saturday. Just slap a fresh set on for when it matters on Sunday.

You live in Auckland so accomodation won't be an issue.

The late entry fee is being waived by AMCC for this one.

$600ish for a weekend of racing with NZ's best...that's about the same as it costs me to get my arse down to Manfeild for a Vic Club one-dayer.

Come on, au, I don't wanna be all along at the back :p

[Biggles08]

What's this two sets of tyres business you plus bastard? There are only two races and you can use your old tyres for practise on the Saturday. Just slap a fresh set on for when it matters on Sunday.

You live in Auckland so accomodation won't be an issue.

The late entry fee is being waived by AMCC for this one.

$600ish for a weekend of racing with NZ's best...that's about the same as it costs me to get my arse down to Manfeild for a Vic Club one-dayer.

Come on, au, I don't wanna be all along at the back :p

Baaaaaaaaa....at the back my arse (calm down now...I know your getting all excited over the thought of my arse!) You will be the bastard that I can't catch...grrr! Its all right bro...I'm doing it....just about to send in my entry.

The original post was to illustrate the difference in cost nats vs club races. I realize the cost's are similar per day, but all the club racing I have done have only been one dayers so overall less expensive. This round of the Nats is obviously cheaper for me as I won't have accomodation issues....BUT....its still two sets of tires bro....its pukekohe....this track cooks tires and eats them for breakfast (well the right half anyway).

[Toast]

Baaaaaaaaa....at the back my arse (calm down now...I know your getting all excited over the thought of my arse!) You will be the bastard that I can't catch...grrr! Its all right bro...I'm doing it....just about to send in my entry.

The original post was to illustrate the difference in cost nats vs club races. I realize the cost's are similar per day, but all the club racing I have done have only been one dayers so overall less expensive. This round of the Nats is obviously cheaper for me as I won't have accomodation issues....BUT....its still two sets of tires bro....its pukekohe....this track cooks tires and eats them for breakfast (well the right half anyway).

Hmm, we'll see. I'm sure the sight of my saggy leathers arse will be bait enough for you to go quicker than when you were last there.

More days = more money, agreed! I'm lookin forward to it though, first time at National level, should be quite a learning experience!

Glad to hear that you're doing it! I'm gonna try and get away with one set...but now you've got me thinking and I might just get another lot in case I fry some at Friday practice!

[Ivan]

No I can't say I agree with you there mate.

We don't want to 'dumb down' the premier series of NZ. It needs to be something more than just another club day.

I think at the end of it, 90% of riders are in it for the fun, and they do it as cheaply as possible. A hobby.

When $$ gets tight, hobbies are the first things to go, because they are not a necessity.

Then there are others, and racing to them is a lifestyle, and they can't live without it, and those are the sorts of people that will do everything they physically can do to get the $$ to go racing. 100% commitment, and you need 100% commitment if you want to persue it.


Yip have to agree with you there.
Going without other fun things so you can race once a month etc

+1

[Sketchy_Racer]

Hmm, we'll see. I'm sure the sight of my saggy leathers arse will be bait enough for you to go quicker than when you were last there.

More days = more money, agreed! I'm lookin forward to it though, first time at National level, should be quite a learning experience!

Glad to hear that you're doing it! I'm gonna try and get away with one set...but now you've got me thinking and I might just get another lot in case I fry some at Friday practice!

Hey Phil,

You will have an absolute ball, and it will step your game up no end. The amount of information I picked up both on and off the track at manfeild was huge, so much that it takes a long time to process it all in my lil head. I think you'll find the same.

Catch ya there dude

-Glen

[Mishy]

Only because you all eat to many Pies

Actually, it's the bourbon to keep my chemical balance correct that chews up the cash . . . . . :eek:
last time I travelled south with Jason, Reece, and Craig we polished off 9 big bottles of Bourbon between us in the two weeks . I think I spent $15000 on running our RS250 that year, and a whole bunch on piss :)
WOOOOHOOOO ! ! !

[Shaun P]

Baaaaaaaaa....at the back my arse (calm down now...I know your getting all excited over the thought of my arse!) You will be the bastard that I can't catch...grrr! Its all right bro...I'm doing it....just about to send in my entry.

The original post was to illustrate the difference in cost nats vs club races. I realize the cost's are similar per day, but all the club racing I have done have only been one dayers so overall less expensive. This round of the Nats is obviously cheaper for me as I won't have accomodation issues....BUT....its still two sets of tires bro....its pukekohe....this track cooks tires and eats them for breakfast (well the right half anyway).

Actually Puke is easier on tyres than most other tracks, as long as you have a setup I guess

[scracha]

Anyone, please explain how it was so much cheaper years ago to go racing, buy a bike, parts tyres fuel food accomodation etc etc

NZ's slide down the OECD might indicate why Shaun. There's simply less disposable income to go around.



What ever happened to 2 jobs in a day, ya know, 12-16 hour working days

I (and I'm sure many other readers) resent the insinuation that "today's" racers are lazy fucks who expect everything handed to them on a plate. Unfortunately the majority of us Generation X and Y'ers are paying for the selfish older generations who fucked up the economy, bought their house back in 19canteen for three bob and thruppence and now have "property portfolio's" to rent out or sell to our generation for ridiculous amounts of money. And the "we had mortgages too" argument doesn't stand...you guys had inflation and were not still paying huge amounts of your wages on the mortgages after 10 years.

You'll find we work just as hard(er), have multiple jobs, far more stressful lives and pay a far bigger proportion of our incomes on rent/mortgage and day to day living costs than you old buggers ever did.



O that;s write, the computer came along and took away all our time, and MNZ makes it to hard to go to work, so it is all there fault
You've changed your tune.

The simple reason most of us don't do the nationals....it costs more than club racing for the same amount of track-time for one event. It's much easier in terms of money/travel/work to do a club series than the nationals. Yes, the top riders enter because they actually have a hope in hell of winning and are talented enough to get sponsorship. For the rest of us, it's just a lose lose situation.

Seriously, what the hell would I gain from doing a round of the nationals? Assuming I wasn't humiliated and could qualify, would I gain much more from watching Glen Williams lap me in a nationals round as opposed to a club race?

[Billy]

NZ's slide down the OECD might indicate why Shaun. There's simply less disposable income to go around.


I (and I'm sure many other readers) resent the insinuation that "today's" racers are lazy fucks who expect everything handed to them on a plate. Unfortunately the majority of us Generation X and Y'ers are paying for the selfish older generations who fucked up the economy, bought their house back in 19canteen for three bob and thruppence and now have "property portfolio's" to rent out or sell to our generation for ridiculous amounts of money. And the "we had mortgages too" argument doesn't stand...you guys had inflation and were not still paying huge amounts of your wages on the mortgages after 10 years

<Well what do you know Stevie,Just went through the entire thread too check and guess what!This is the first thread that includes the word lazy in any context??What is lacking is the desire and commitment to race at the National level and dont give me that "It was easier back then" shit.In 89 a new RGV was $12500.00 retail,Mortgage interest rates were around 12% and wages were substantially lower.

You'll find we work just as hard(er), have multiple jobs, far more stressful lives and pay a far bigger proportion of our incomes on rent/mortgage and day to day living costs than you old buggers ever did.

BULLSHIT!!


You've changed your tune.

The simple reason most of us don't do the nationals....it costs more than club racing for the same amount of track-time for one event. It's much easier in terms of money/travel/work to do a club series than the nationals. Yes, the top riders enter because they actually have a hope in hell of winning and are talented enough to get sponsorship. For the rest of us, it's just a lose lose situation.


BULLSHIT AGAIN!!! I spent $6000.00 to do the Actrix series last year $1500.00 of that was fuel travelling to and from the 6 rounds,I can drive to Invercargill and back for around $1000.00,I used 3 sets of tyres which would be adequate for a first time tilt at the Nationals on a 400(bearing in mind youre not gonna front up at 3 tracks youve never seen before and win even with the fastest bike,Ask Jill Clendon),1 set of brake pads,3 rear sprockets etc.You would gain so much more by doing the National series than you can ever hope to at club level,Ask Craig Green next time you see him.I talked him into it 2 years ago.


Seriously, what the hell would I gain from doing a round of the nationals? Assuming I wasn't humiliated and could qualify, would I gain much more from watching Glen Williams lap me in a nationals round as opposed to a club race?

Probably not a hell of a lot if youre only doing the 1 round with that attitude!In 2005 I did the National round at Manfeild on an RS250 after a 13yr layoff and I got pasted,I was lapped by Steve Bagshaw and Karel Pavich,Two people I could beat without raising a sweat before I retired in 92.Did I spit the dummy and give up?Not a chance,You just have sit back and look and learn and take the positives out and move forward.Something you will only ever achieve in small increments if youre racing the same guys time and again.
Its not about laziness,Its about Dedication,Commitment and Attitude

[Shaun]

NZ's slide down the OECD might indicate why Shaun. There's simply less disposable income to go around.


I (and I'm sure many other readers) resent the insinuation that "today's" racers are lazy fucks who expect everything handed to them on a plate. Unfortunately the majority of us Generation X and Y'ers are paying for the selfish older generations who fucked up the economy, bought their house back in 19canteen for three bob and thruppence and now have "property portfolio's" to rent out or sell to our generation for ridiculous amounts of money. And the "we had mortgages too" argument doesn't stand...you guys had inflation and were not still paying huge amounts of your wages on the mortgages after 10 years.

You'll find we work just as hard(er), have multiple jobs, far more stressful lives and pay a far bigger proportion of our incomes on rent/mortgage and day to day living costs than you old buggers ever did.


You've changed your tune.

The simple reason most of us don't do the nationals....it costs more than club racing for the same amount of track-time for one event. It's much easier in terms of money/travel/work to do a club series than the nationals. Yes, the top riders enter because they actually have a hope in hell of winning and are talented enough to get sponsorship. For the rest of us, it's just a lose lose situation.

Seriously, what the hell would I gain from doing a round of the nationals? Assuming I wasn't humiliated and could qualify, would I gain much more from watching Glen Williams lap me in a nationals round as opposed to a club race?




Enjoy your sport mate

[CHOPPA]

I dont know why but motocross riders have a completely different attitude, apart from tyres it cost the same to race mx but costs aside everyone wants to ride the nationals! They dont care if they get lapped, there riding with world class riders and actually after 25mins 1 less lap is quite good lol theres no shame in being beaten....

There is a safty factor in road racing but basically if your in that 115% or close to that you should compete! You can do it on 1 front and 2 rear tyres and some second hand tyres for practice. You get 3 days on the track for under $400 which is the same as 3 days of club riding.

Look at Dave Manuel he was on a 2002 model bike worth maybe 6k minimum supply of tyres and he was running near top 10 in 600s.

It depends what your goals are but if they are to get faster? Then theres just something about getting out on the track with those fast guys that makes you turn it up!

[Racey Rider]

I wonder how much that 115% rule puts people off.

If I ever get to a stage where I have the right bike,.... and have the spare money,.... Making it round within the 115% cut off would be my next hurdle to giving the nationals a try. Especially on tracks I don't know very well.

Nationals A Grade and B grade within the same race? Might make the grids fuller.

Be nice to say I made a top 10 finish in one race of the NZ Nationals for F3 B/C grade.

[Shaun P]

I wonder how much that 115% rule puts people off.

If I ever get to a stage where I have the right bike,.... and have the spare money,.... Making it round within the 115% cut off would be my next hurdle to giving the nationals a try. Especially on tracks I don't know very well.

Nationals A Grade and B grade within the same race? Might make the grids fuller.

Be nice to say I made a top 10 finish in one race of the NZ Nationals for F3 B/C grade.

I dont think so, take taupo for example say the fastest qualifying lap is 1.34 for arguments sake the 115% allows up to 1.48 which is 14 seconds! The idea of it is from a safety point of view so riders either dont get lapped or the speed differential isnt too dangerous when they do. 115% is prob to generous anyway..
Time and money are really the restricting factors

[scracha]

Its not about laziness,Its about Dedication,Commitment and Attitude

So you're saying it's because we're lazy that we don't do the nationals?

[Billy]

So you're saying it's because we're lazy that we don't do the nationals?

Absolutely not,Actually theres a whole paragraph missing out of that reply.Not sure how I managed that.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

There is a safty factor in road racing but basically if your in that 115% or close to that you should compete! You can do it on 1 front and 2 rear tyres and some second hand tyres for practice. You get 3 days on the track for under $400 which is the same as 3 days of club riding.

Hey Choppa, with respect, although it sounds like good value when put into these terms, stumbing up for the $1,300 ($900 tyres[3 tyres @ $300ea], $400 entry) is the most prohibitive part. Insteade of spreading the payment over 3 club meets, extending over 3 months, it has to be coughed up straight away. I think that is where most club racers are struggling, meeting the cash requirements to step up to into national competition. NZ's relatively low wage/salary rates have alot to answer for.

But in saying this, Im goning to do my best to get out there for the coming winter series on my student budget. No shit show of racing at nationals on a students budget though!!

BUT, like the sound of a north island/south island titles. Definitley sounds more affordable than tripping down south/hiking up north!

[cowpoos]

I think I have partially changed my mind about this debate.

I reckon the major reason...is ego...people who run to the top ten in club level...will be lapped and learned at national level. so...yeah ego I reckon.

[Skunk]

I seems to me riders don't enter because they feel they must have new tyres and stay in a motel. They don't do that for the Actrix Winter Series though. They price themselves out of doing a round.
What if they treat it like any other two day meeting? They can afford to do that with the Actrix Winter Series... but can't afford it in the middle of summer.

[CHOPPA]

Hey Choppa, with respect, although it sounds like good value when put into these terms, stumbing up for the $1,300 ($900 tyres[3 tyres @ $300ea], $400 entry) is the most prohibitive part. Insteade of spreading the payment over 3 club meets, extending over 3 months, it has to be coughed up straight away. I think that is where most club racers are struggling, meeting the cash requirements to step up to into national competition. NZ's relatively low wage/salary rates have alot to answer for.

But in saying this, Im goning to do my best to get out there for the coming winter series on my student budget. No shit show of racing at nationals on a students budget though!!

BUT, like the sound of a north island/south island titles. Definitley sounds more affordable than tripping down south/hiking up north!

You have a good point but $1300 for your local round once a year is not to bad...

[gimpy]

I Think half the dudes on this forum need to have a cup of concerte and harden the fuck up:Playnice:

[roogazza]

Lets face it , if you are any good , Club level and National level, is the same thing !
It's only the bottom of the pile that does the whinging. Gaz.

[Shaun]

I Think half the dudes on this forum need to have a cup of concerte and harden the fuck up:Playnice:



Thanks for the laugh

[scracha]

I Think half the dudes on this forum need to have a cup of concerte and harden the fuck up:Playnice:
Yawn ..10 chars

[GIXser]

I think I have partially changed my mind about this debate.

I reckon the major reason...is ego...people who run to the top ten in club level...will be lapped and learned at national level. so...yeah ego I reckon.

Well yeah... i get lapped..:)

[GIXser]

I've ridden Gixser's monster, and it's prolly nowhere near the fastest out there, no, my old girl only does 250-260 down the back of puke, i believe that's not safe with guys doing around 320...
(look goddamit, you guys are making it look like I have ed's excuse book.....I really can't afford it, and my bike isn't eligible either ok?)

so youve got my book...... i thought id simply lost it :)

[GIXser]

I've ridden Gixser's monster, and it's prolly nowhere near the fastest out there, no, my old girl only does 250-260 down the back of puke, i believe that's not safe with guys doing around 320...
(look goddamit, you guys are making it look like I have ed's excuse book.....I really can't afford it, and my bike isn't eligible either ok?)

i believe mine is with 90 to 95 % of the other bikes, my problem (excuse 574 out of my excuse book) is my suspension...... and lack of nuts... (but mainly the suspension) im still doing it though..and havin a ball!!!

[FROSTY]

Guys Im an old maybee coulda been. But one thing I do know.
If ya wanna win You have got to want it and be prpared to sacrifice everything for it.
I think the problem really is people arent prepared to do that anymore.

[svr]

I think I have partially changed my mind about this debate.

I reckon the major reason...is ego...people who run to the top ten in club level...will be lapped and learned at national level. so...yeah ego I reckon.

I've said that a couple of times and basically told to fuck off with no support.
It's not an issue if you've got others to race against back there. No-one wants to be last and a long way off the back and by themselves, I guess.

Sure. superbikes seem to destroy tyres, but my F3 tyre bill for the manfield round was $120. I'm a part-timer and was 3sec off the pace on an average bike but still had a good time, supported my club, and got to be part of it all. No idea whats wrong with the F3 and 600 kids - HTFU and get out there, pussies.
Watch them all turn up at the first vmcc round with new tyres, and having tested the day before...

[Tony.OK]

Why does every thread need to turn into a slagging match?

Its seems too many people worry too much about what others can and can't do.....................who gives a fuck!
If you want to race Nats...........go ahead.............if ya don't.......then don't.

The costs are what they are.....get over it, I did. Would've loved to have done some rounds, but as I'd not budgeted for doing any it didn't happen. Simple!!!

Just a matter of interest.......................looking at the low numbers in regard to the SBK field, if the 600's hadn't been cross entering during the Winter series the field numbers would've been just as low as the Nats. Lower at some rounds.

[svr]

Why does every thread need to turn into a slagging match?


Sorry man - was meant more as a friendly kick up the bum (mainly at my class) and didn't mean to slag anyone off (I hate that personal shit too)
- Its just sad we're prepared to see the nats go down the toilet when we should get out there when / if we can.

[Benk]

Sorry man - was meant more as a friendly kick up the bum (mainly at my class) and didn't mean to slag anyone off (I hate that personal shit too)
- Its just sad we're prepared to see the nats go down the toilet when we should get out there when / if we can.

You meaning F3 im guessing svr? Shit, id be there, but I doubt id make the 115% qualifying rule, I mean, you cant do away with qualifying, thats for sure, safety concerns etc, but that puts pretty well all the 400 boys (and girls :hug:) out, which chops the numbers down quite a bit. Once Ive got an f3 bike thatll scrape within the 115% Ill be there. :headbang:

[johnsv650]

they havent inforced the 115 % rule at first 4 rounds, they hapy to have you there

[Benk]

they havent inforced the 115 % rule at first 4 rounds, they hapy to have you there

Haha, sorry mate, Im fishing the Tauranga One Base this weekend, if thats the case next year I'll happily be some lapped traffic.

Back to work :baby:......

[svr]

Haha, sorry mate, Im fishing the Tauranga One Base this weekend, if thats the case next year I'll happily be some lapped traffic.

Back to work :baby:......

Get into it - and by the way, Impulses (remember those) from 20yrs ago were doin 110% of todays qualifiying times - your bike is up to 115%.

[Billy]

Why does every thread need to turn into a slagging match?

Its seems too many people worry too much about what others can and can't do.....................who gives a fuck!
If you want to race Nats...........go ahead.............if ya don't.......then don't.

Good point Tony.It started on page 1 of this thread with 1 or 2 self confessed experts slagging MNZ for the fact that here are such small numbers at the nationals.I would have thought it would have been more of an issue for someone in your position whos showing some good form early in your career.The ramifications if MNZ decide its not worth the effort of running a National series that nobody turns up too are huge.Ask Stroudy sometime about how much harder it is to secure big money sponsors to compete at WSBK level without being a NZ champ and in some cases eligibility too race at world championship level require you too be your National champ.Hows that gonna work for you younger guys if there is no championship

[scracha]

Hows that gonna work for you younger guys if there is no championship
They'll bugger of to Australia/States/Japan/Europe.... Yikes.



Oh..and comparing lap times to 10/20 years ago isn't useful at all.

[Ozzy27]

They'll bugger of to Australia/States/Japan/Europe.... Yikes.

Or back to Scotland(what a shame):laugh:

Oh..and comparing lap times to 10/20 years ago isn't useful at all.

Yeah it makes all the guys look really slow with the advancement in tires, Suspension ect!!
:spanking:

[Billy]

They'll bugger of to Australia/States/Japan/Europe.... Yikes.
Of course.Cause theres teams all over the world lining up to sign riders from such prestigious Championships as the Actrix,Pacific and Protecta series.Bwahahahahaha

[Dom]

Of course.Cause theres teams all over the world lining up to sign riders from such prestigious Championships as the Actrix,Pacific and Protecta series.Bwahahahahaha

Billy, don't forget our world renowned King of Ruapuna.

[Billy]

Billy, don't forget our world renowned King of Ruapuna.Oh yea,That 1 too sorry!

[Tony.OK]

Hows that gonna work for you younger guys if there is no championship

Now thats cheered me up no end hahaa:lol:..........I was depressed about turning 37 this year:(

Being my 1st year racing I've started a tad late to be thinking I might be competing for a title, and Pres Bush has screwed up my extra income that has been paying for my assault on the top boys:rolleyes:

:clap:

[Shaun P]

Good point Tony.It started on page 1 of this thread with 1 or 2 self confessed experts slagging MNZ for the fact that here are such small numbers at the nationals.I would have thought it would have been more of an issue for someone in your position whos showing some good form early in your career.The ramifications if MNZ decide its not worth the effort of running a National series that nobody turns up too are huge.Ask Stroudy sometime about how much harder it is to secure big money sponsors to compete at WSBK level without being a NZ champ and in some cases eligibility too race at world championship level require you too be your National champ.Hows that gonna work for you younger guys if there is no championship

I dont see any of the Aussie guys ever doing wildcard type WSBK stuff even if they are champions and run at a similar pace, I guess they are priced out of it as well..prob better if they focus their energies on o/s gigs

[Biggles08]

I'm of the opinion that their is more to all of this than meets the eye....I'm sure MNZ have a lot to answer for in how they promote/organize the national series and I'm sure some of the clubs running the local events also could do things better.....BUT, at the end of the day, it is useless complaining about all of it if your not involved. At least after doing a couple of rounds of the nationals (after pukekohe) I'm entitled to a hearing of my opinion with regards to how it could be improved. I was more than impressed with the Manfield round in how it was run and promoted....and I thought the turnout was pretty good considering the lack of riders.

There is an issue of cost when it comes to National rounds....that is more because you have three days on the track all at once....proportionally the cost isn't too bad if you break it down, its just as has been said by others in this thread all at once.

[PeteJ]

I'm of the opinion that their is more to all of this than meets the eye....I'm sure MNZ have a lot to answer for in how they promote/organize the national series and I'm sure some of the clubs running the local events also could do things better.....BUT, at the end of the day, it is useless complaining about all of it if your not involved. At least after doing a couple of rounds of the nationals (after pukekohe) I'm entitled to a hearing of my opinion with regards to how it could be improved. I was more than impressed with the Manfield round in how it was run and promoted....and I thought the turnout was pretty good considering the lack of riders.

There is an issue of cost when it comes to National rounds....that is more because you have three days on the track all at once....proportionally the cost isn't too bad if you break it down, its just as has been said by others in this thread all at once.


Yeah, everyone might like to consider the fact that, for the last 50 years or more, most of the organising people in the clubs and MNZ started as riders just like you who were upset at the lack of public interest in the sport and at the expense of competing at any level.

That's how you get into being a race/meeting organiser.

Any new and workable thoughts about promotion of the sport to riders and the public will be gratefully accepted by the clubs and MNZ, I assure you.

[scracha]

Or back to Scotland(what a shame)

Oh dear...another racist kiwi. As I've said before, this country would be fucked without us foreigners bringing in money and doing all the hard work.


Yeah it makes all the guys look really slow with the advancement in tires, Suspension ect!!
:spanking:
Possibly...or it could be that the tracks have just deteriorated.

[Billy]

Oh dear...another racist kiwi. As I've said before, this country would be fucked without us foreigners bringing in money and doing all the hard work.


Possibly...or it could be that the tracks have just deteriorated.

Rubbish.What would you base that on ??

[svs]

Possibly...or it could be that the tracks have just deteriorated.

Nothing wrong with the surface at manfeild with the resurfacing work. Taupo is new. The tracks weren't made of some super go faster grippy stuff back in the 80s :)

To be honest - I came over to NZ in 2000. got back into racing a couple of years later. I was surprised to be running at the front in clubmans on an SV (finished 3rd overall in the VMCC series) then finished 4th overall in F3. Seriously the level of competition in the UK and Scotland was much higher. Not in terms of having better bikes or circuits - just the talent and raw speed of the riders. NZ riders (myself inculded) have a way to go before taking the world by storm. All tracks I've been on over here are better than knockhill, east fortune and croft in terms of surface. Even donington wasn't all that flash up close - the TV just makes them look smoother.

[paturoa]

I managed to score a couple of tickets for this weekend and have been looking for a race programme so I can work out when to go.

Is there one?

[NinjaBoy]

I managed to score a couple of tickets for this weekend and have been looking for a race programme so I can work out when to go.

Is there one?

Have a look at the second page of the entry form : http://www.nzsbk.co.nz/107361/html/page.html

Sorry to big to upload

[Ozzy27]

[QUOTE=scracha;1962146]Oh dear...another racist kiwi. As I've said before, this country would be fucked without us foreigners bringing in money and doing all the hard work.


From all the moaning you do on here it sounds like you don't have $10 and if you work harder than me I'll buy you a beer.

I Have lived all over the world and NZ is far from perfect but what we dont need is a bunch of people who have fucked up there own country coming over here and telling us how we are doing everything wrong!! If it was so great where they came from why did they leave??
As for being racist yeah I hate whingers so if you are a whinger Bad luck!!:baby::baby: Ps my Partner is from Brighton (UK):first:

[sugilite]

From time to time I've built a few websites for businesses and have had them hosted on actrix for no other reason that they sponsor the vic club winter series. Support the sponsors when ever you can, even then they will never really get value for bucks, they do it for passion.

[scracha]

From all the moaning you do on here it sounds like you don't have $10 and if you work harder than me I'll buy you a beer.

So asking (in all seriousness) what benefits as club racer such as myself would get from spending a lot of extra peso's to compete in the nationals somehow comes across as moaning?

Most of the moaning seems to be coming from people asking why club racers aren't racing at the nationals, not the other way around.



need is a bunch of people who have fucked up there own country coming over here and telling us how we are doing everything wrong!! If it was so great where they came from why did they leave??

Nothing wrong with trying to apply best practises and improve the country you live in and pay your taxes to. Or is it only ex-pat Kiwi's who get away with that sort of thing?

That said, I can't actually see anywhere in this thread where I've mentioned how fucked up things are here compared to any other country?

Sorry...I switch off as soon as I hear words to the effect of "if you don't like it....fuck off back to your own country" type waffle. Next year, when I get citizenship, bankrupt the business with a huge trail of debt and then claim my ACC/WINS, then you can give me abuse.

[roadracingoldfart]

From all the moaning you do on here it sounds like you don't have $10 and if you work harder than me I'll buy you a beer.

As for being racist yeah I hate whingers so if you are a whinger Bad luck!!:baby::baby: Ps my Partner is from Brighton (UK):first:


Without getting too deep Chris , how the hell , and why do you think you know anything abouth Scracha or how hard he works . Whats that got to do with the topic in this thread . ?????

He spends alot of money as a member of my team (which allows me to comment on his ethics/standing ) and i respect him for doing what he enjoys to the fullest effect his abilities allow him to. He is new to racing and is doing very well at it.

Chill out.

When you slag people off its the gugular shot you prefer by the look of it.

Why are you so insecure ???. Its coming over as childish.

Paul.

[Ozzy27]

Oh dear...another racist kiwi. As I've said before, this country would be fucked without us foreigners bringing in money and doing all the hard work.


Possibly...or it could be that the tracks have just deteriorated.


Without getting too deep Chris , how the hell , and why do you think you know anything abouth Scracha or how hard he works . Whats that got to do with the topic in this thread . ?????

He spends alot of money as a member of my team (which allows me to comment on his ethics/standing ) and i respect him for doing what he enjoys to the fullest effect his abilities allow him to. He is new to racing and is doing very well at it.

Chill out.

When you slag people off its the gugular shot you prefer by the look of it.

Why are you so insecure ???. Its coming over as childish.

Paul.

Both you guys take yourselves far to seriously. The comment about back to Scotland was said very tounge in cheek. NOW BOTH OF YOU HAVE TURNED IT INTO A SLAGGING MATCH:done:

[roadracingoldfart]

Paul fuck off your a total wanker!!
You still have never made the effort to come over and say hello after your last tirade!!

:Offtopic::Offtopic::Offtopic::Offtopic::Offtopic:


Im far from a wanker -------- im a bastard , just ask my mum , she can tell you.

Lifes full of long waits Chris.

[Shaun]

haha and there was me thinking that MY OLD head injury was the cause of my out spoken ness haha:clap:

[scracha]

haha and there was me thinking that MY OLD head injury was the cause of my out spoken ness haha:clap:
Kinda implies you've got a new head injury Shaun :devil2:

Ozzy, you're due me a beer but you can claw it back when I've saved up for my Yammy R4.5 (next year I hope).

[Shaun]

Kinda implies you've got a new head injury Shaun :devil2:

Ozzy, you're due me a beer but you can claw it back when I've saved up for my Yammy R4.5 (next year I hope).





I do mate, it is called the year 2009