Speed camera help please

[bluffy]

I got a dreaded letter today!! 108km in a 50km area from a ride a couple of weekes ago. does anyone know what me the outcome of this will be as the bike is not regersted in my name but the company I work for and own. I am very concerned about this. Not really an advocate for high speed and am certainly feeling extremely guilty about this.....my only defence on the matter is a belive the camera was just inside the 50km area and i hadnt slowed down in time which is my own fault. Any help and suggestion much appreciated. The only info I discoverd is for speeds up to 50km not anything over.

Cheers

[tigertim20]

If you got sent the letter, it should have an attached fine. My suggestion is this.
The bike is in the company's name yes?
You write a letter back saying that:
The bike is a company vehicle, open for use by any employee at any time, and it is impossible to know who used it on that day and at that time, though you have attempted to find who it was, but nobody has owned up, leathers and gear go with the bike, and thus seeing the photo is unlikely to help.

The worst that will happen is you will get a $600 fine, I think they call it "failing to comply" which just means its a fine for not telling them what they want to know, so match this possible cost against the size of the fine you have, which is less? (obviously either way you pay the fine out of company funds, as you own it, easy!)

The alternative: speed camera tickets do not come with demerit points, so I would pay whatever fine you get out of the business accounts, and let that be that, if they attempt to try and find the rider, you use the above statement, Now I may be wrong about the process of what happens for a ticket which exceeds the limit by 58 km/hr, and there is a possibility they would try to take the liscence IF they could identify the rider. That is my 2 cents worth.

[CB ARGH]

I believe that a speed camera (fixed or mobile) can not be operating within 250m of where a posted speed limit drops (ie 100 - 50). The info is on the police website somewhere, I'd have no idea where to find it now, sorry.

[Dean]

At first i thought you said 180kph in a 50kph zone!!!!! pheww
But maybe ask username-Patrick, on this he could give you legal advice and help you sort out the mess.
I hope you get it sorted all the best.

[pritch]

The bike is in the company's name yes?
You write a letter back saying that:
The bike is a company vehicle, open for use by any employee at any time, and it is impossible to know who used it on that day and at that time, though you have attempted to find who it was, but nobody has owned up, leathers and gear go with the bike, and thus seeing the photo is unlikely to help.

Too late she cried?

The original poster didn't say when this heinous crime was committed. If the OP got the letter then it is likely somebody has already informed :Police: as to who was driving.

Generally the :Police: don't just roll over for some half arsed statement that you can't identify the driver. These things art usually dealt with by way of a statutory declaration witnessed by a JP or a lawyer etc that they have followed several steps and still don't know who was driving. Falsifying such a statement would be a relatively serious matter...

Pay the bloody fine and don't whinge. Look on the bright side: no demerit points - yet.

[bluffy]

I have no issues paying the fine....more than happy too, I was speeding!! But what worries me is the letter has no fine on it......the letter is asking for the details of the rider...and further corespondece will be issued. It has details of when and where and the speed and a form to fill out. Please note the bike is in a dealer name (as im a deal and yes should know better). There is no amount set to pay.....thats the concern.....I give up my details and boom....bye bye licence. Thanks to you who have responded so far.

[geoffm]

A dealer - you mean someone took it for a test ride and didn't leave accurate details. Careless of you there....

[tigertim20]

You dont mind paying the fine, but dont want to lose your liscence, refer to my first thread:
write back saying bike is a company owned vehicle, free for use by any employee at any time, and leathers and helmet go with the bike. You have enquired, but failed to get a name or admission from whoever was riding, you apologise and will initiate a method of policing use of this vehicle, throu some form of a log-book for times and dates of use in the future.
Worst they can do is fine you $600 for "failure to comply" thus you pay a fine, as you are happy to do, and you keep your liscence, as you want to.
Best of luck, I think its bullshit putting a camera immediately after a change of speed sign.

[Gubb]

Sad but true, but you admit you did the crime, it's time to man up and pass on your details.

[tigertim20]

sister was in a similar position at a time, a complaint was laid to police for hugely excessive speed, the complainent even had video footage, though it didnt see the driver. She told the cops it wasnt her, she had left the car at a party the night before and it could have neen anybody using it who was there. They fined her $600 for failure to comply, they cant be bothered chasing someone over something like that.

[CookMySock]

.....the letter is asking for the details of the rider...and further corespondece will be issued.I wouldnt do ANYTHING. They will try to engineer out of you what they can. You do not have to help them do their job.

Wait until they issue you with a fine and just pay it with a company cheque signed by your accountant. Don't put your name on anything.

Good luck with that.
Steve

[Mully]

At that speed, it's a court summons, not a fine. They are trying to find out who needs to visit the judge.

[scumdog]

I wouldnt do ANYTHING. They will try to engineer out of you what they can. You do not have to help them do their job.

Wait until they issue you with a fine and just pay it with a company cheque signed by your accountant. Don't put your name on anything.
Steve

Will that REALLY work??:blink:

[fireliv]

I have no issues paying the fine....more than happy too, I was speeding!! But what worries me is the letter has no fine on it......the letter is asking for the details of the rider...and further corespondece will be issued. It has details of when and where and the speed and a form to fill out. Please note the bike is in a dealer name (as im a deal and yes should know better). There is no amount set to pay.....thats the concern.....I give up my details and boom....bye bye licence. Thanks to you who have responded so far.

If you dont provide details of the rider you could be charged with "Failing to Provide information" or "preverting the course of justice". The second is very rare in a traffic matter (and holds max 7 years imprisionment I think) But the first could be very likely (a finable offense involving a trip to the court before JPs usually). Or neither, its up to the police after all. If you man up and admitt it, they will probably issue you with a fine to pay.

[Gremlin]

What you have received is the request for information. Basically, as the registered owner, you have been sent the notice, and you have to provide the details of who was using it at the time of the offence. The law sees it as your responsibility, as the registered owner, to know who is using it at all times.

The answer "I don't know who was" is not acceptable either, and if you are unable to provide details, you, as the registered owner, are liable instead (perhaps with a reduced fine, if the cop feels that perhaps your explanation it wasn't you, is true).

One grey area is when its registered to a company, not sure how that follows, as it would be lovely for a company to rack up demerits, then get its driving license suspended :eek: I would presume they may look at company owners, as its otherwise a fantastic loophole.

You CANNOT do nothing... the punishment for this is outlined in the request, I believe its up to $10,000 and/or jail time, and you have 14 days to comply, from the notice date (if memory serves).

Once they receive the details, they then issue that person with the relevant fine/whatever, as they now know who committed the offence.

What you need to know is, what fines/court are relevant to 58kph over on a speed camera. Being caught by a cop is instant dangerous driving from memory.

[CookMySock]

Will that REALLY work??:blink:C'mon scumdog, help out here a bit. The guy is busted fair and square, now he just wants his head above water and pay the fine. Isn't that enough? Do you think he will do that again?

I stand by my suggestion: You do not have to answer the police questions.

Whats the story scumdog?

Steve

[awayatc]

I wouldnt do ANYTHING. They will try to engineer out of you what they can. You do not have to help them do their job.

Wait until they issue you with a fine and just pay it with a company cheque signed by your accountant. Don't put your name on anything.

Good luck with that.
Steve

sounds Dangerous.....

[Swoop]

does anyone know what me the outcome of this will be...
You will unbolt the plate before going on a ride, next time???:buggerd:

[spudchucka]

I wouldnt do ANYTHING. They will try to engineer out of you what they can. You do not have to help them do their job.

Wait until they issue you with a fine and just pay it with a company cheque signed by your accountant. Don't put your name on anything.

Good luck with that.


Steve

You should take Dumb Bastard's advice.:rolleyes:


118: Owner or hirer or licence holder to give information as to identity of driver or passenger

*

(1) If an enforcement officer has reasonable cause to believe that the driver of a vehicle has committed an offence while in charge of the vehicle, the officer may request the owner or hirer of the vehicle to give all information in his or her possession or obtainable by him or her which may lead to the identification and apprehension of the driver of the vehicle.

(2) If an enforcement officer has reasonable cause to believe that a passenger of a vehicle has committed an offence in or through the use of the vehicle where that use relates to the commission of the offence or the aiding of the commission of the offence or the assisting of that passenger to avoid arrest in connection with or conviction for that offence, the officer may request the owner or hirer of the vehicle to give all information which may lead to the identification and apprehension of the passenger.

(3) A request under subsection (1) or subsection (2) or subsection (6) may be made orally or in writing and the owner or hirer or licence holder (as the case may be) must comply with the request within 14 days.

(4) If a vehicle has been used to flee a Police pursuit, an enforcement officer may request the owner of the vehicle to give all information in his or her possession or obtainable by him or her which may lead to the identification and apprehension of the driver, and the owner must give the officer that information immediately.

(5) Subsection (4) does not apply if the owner has been arrested or detained in relation to the suspected offence.

(6) If the holder of a transport service licence employs any person to drive a vehicle under that licence, the licence holder, on being informed of any offence alleged to have been committed by that person or by a person driving a vehicle being used under the licence, and on being requested to do so by an enforcement officer, must supply in writing the full name and address of the driver.



52: Contravening notices, requirements, etc, given or imposed by enforcement officers

*

(1) A person commits an offence if the person—
o

(aa) is the driver of a vehicle that is stopped and fails to remain stopped in accordance with section 114(2A); or
o

(a) Removes, obscures, or renders indistinguishable a notice affixed to a vehicle under section 115, unless new evidence of vehicle inspection has been obtained for the vehicle or (if the notice was given under section 96(1B)) the direction requiring the vehicle not to be driven on a road has been cancelled under section 102(3)(b) or section 110(3)(a)(ii) or, if section 115(2A) applies, the enforcement officer has been notified in writing that the vehicle complies with the regulations and the rules; or
o

(b) Drives a vehicle to which a notice under section 115 applies (other than when driving in compliance with a condition imposed under subsection (4) or subsection (5) of that section or under section 96(1D)) before new evidence of vehicle inspection has been obtained for, and is displayed on, the vehicle; or
o

(c) Fails or refuses to comply with any lawful requirement, direction, notice, request, or prohibition given to or imposed on him or her under this Act by an enforcement officer or a dangerous goods enforcement officer; or
o

(d) Whether or not he or she is the person to whom the direction was given, knowingly drives a heavy motor vehicle on a road in breach of a direction given by an enforcement officer under section 128.

(2) The maximum penalty on conviction for an offence against subsection (1) is a fine not exceeding $10,000.

Because the cops never bother to follow up on this stuff.:msn-wink:

[Mully]

One grey area is when its registered to a company, not sure how that follows, as it would be lovely for a company to rack up demerits, then get its driving license suspended :eek: I would presume they may look at company owners, as its otherwise a fantastic loophole.


DAMHIK, but when a company vehicle is subjected to a "moving vehicle violation", the company receives the notice. It is, generally, in the primary driver's contract that they are responsible for any infringements incurred unless someone else had the vehicle at the time.

With demerits, you don't get those from cameras, so it's irrelevant to the company. If they do change the law, I would expect any camera fine to get a letter like the OPs before a fine/demerits are issued. Which may be why they haven't, it would add an enormous administrative burden to the boys in blue.

In this case, a speed of over 40km/h over the limit is a summons (not an instant fine). They want to know who was driving so they know who to serve with papers. I have no idea what the penalty for 58km/h over the limit is, but I'd be preparing for a large fine and possibly the requirement to get a work licence (there are threads on here about how to do it).

[Scouse]

Just supply the Police your name and address then move house and change jobs so that it is difficult for them to serve a summons.

[pritch]

She told the cops it wasnt her, she had left the car at a party the night before and it could have neen anybody using it who was there. They fined her $600 for failure to comply, they cant be bothered chasing someone over something like that.

We get these several times a month at work. On one occasion only have we had to advise the Police that we couldn't identify the driver. The guilty party hadn't filled in any of the normal paperwork. The photo was taken from behind and the headrest hid the driver completely. And of course nobody had any idea who was driving that particular car at the time...

[Patrick]

I got a dreaded letter today!! 108km in a 50km area from a ride a couple of weekes ago. does anyone know what me the outcome of this will be as the bike is not regersted in my name but the company I work for and own. I am very concerned about this. Not really an advocate for high speed and am certainly feeling extremely guilty about this.....my only defence on the matter is a belive the camera was just inside the 50km area and i hadnt slowed down in time which is my own fault. Any help and suggestion much appreciated. The only info I discoverd is for speeds up to 50km not anything over.

Cheers

Buggered. No instant fine, as it is over 50kmph over the limit. Be careful about the bush lawyers on the site and their advice.... See the above post from Spud about the "legislation."

There is a requirement of 250m past a speed restriction sign, when going from a higher speed into a lower speed. (Doesn't work the other way around, either... ie: 50k into 100 and you were speeding up before the 100 sign... they can set up immediately before the sign, but they don't....... coz they're good like that...)

The other part that is also worth pointing out is, if you failed or refused to supply driver info, if it is over a matter concerning road safety, (which this is...) the owners drivers licence may also be disqualifed. If you're the boss = you. If not... he's gonna be pissed.........:jerry:


I wouldnt do ANYTHING. They will try to engineer out of you what they can. You do not have to help them do their job.

Wait until they issue you with a fine and just pay it with a company cheque signed by your accountant. Don't put your name on anything.

Good luck with that.
Steve

Fookin bush lawyers.....

[MaxB]

What Patrick says. At 58kmh over it will be a court case.

So the police will consider what evidence they have and then lay a charge relevant to the severity of the offence. This assumes they know the id of the rider.

They can just charge the rider with a speeding type offence. The standard punishment from the courts is a 28 day walk, 50 points and approx $1000 fine/costs. From there it just gets worse. More disqualifications and fines are possible with careless use or dangerous charges.

The problem is that it is the courts that will impose the 'justice' so there are no guarantees.

I know a dumb rider busted for 146kmh past a rural school charged and convicted with dangerous driving. I know of another rider busted at double the speed limit on a remote road that just got a speeding fine and 50 points and a 20 minute dreesing down by the court on why he was a menace to society. The NZ justice system is a strange thing.

[Gremlin]

Because the cops never bother to follow up on this stuff.:msn-wink:
cheers for the official phrasing spud... wow... I was actually about right! :clap:

For my own interest, is 50kph or more over treated as the same, regardless of whether its from cop or speed camera? (exception of demerits obviously). Or indeed... 40kph over? (ie, loss of license for 30 days?)


The NZ justice system is a strange thing.
The trick to remember is... its a bunch of old guys (generalisation) ie, they are JP's. I have found they are more inclined to follow what the police say (I know of one that completely followed the police recommendations, regardless of the civilian's case), and seem like old boys that have never broken the law etc. In comparison, one judge I came across was very good, bollocking either side as required, and generally, found him excellent (well, as excellent as can be, when you're appearing before him appealing for a work license :rolleyes:)

[Mom]

I have no issues paying the fine....more than happy too, I was speeding!! But what worries me is the letter has no fine on it......the letter is asking for the details of the rider...and further corespondece will be issued. It has details of when and where and the speed and a form to fill out. Please note the bike is in a dealer name (as im a deal and yes should know better). There is no amount set to pay.....thats the concern.....I give up my details and boom....bye bye licence. Thanks to you who have responded so far.

Listen to the advice of the coppers on the forum mate, and disregard some of the other "good" advice you are receiving. Out of interest, how many dealers are there in Bluff? You have basically outed yourself on here anyway, did the crime, do the time. That is friggen fast in a 50kph zone.

[3umph]

if I was your boss and got taken down from your actions I would be very pissed....

You did the crime so you need to do the right thing or you could come off really bad compared to what will happen if you own up...

Take the good advice that has been given free of charge by the ones that know the laws on here....

Good luck

[samgab]

There is a requirement of 250m past a speed restriction sign, when going from a higher speed into a lower speed. (Doesn't work the other way around, either... ie: 50k into 100 and you were speeding up before the 100 sign... they can set up immediately before the sign, but they don't....... coz they're good like that...)

I'm thinking, and I can't think of any areas that go directly 100-50... All the ones I can think of go 100-70-50, or 100-80-60, or some such.

Are there many areas where the speed change goes directly from 100 to 50?

Edit1: I don't know about the South Island, not having driven/ridden there.
Edit2: Above not counting motorway offramps, of course.

[3umph]

I'm thinking, and I can't think of any areas that go directly 100-50... All the ones I can think of go 100-70-50, or 100-80-60, or some such.

Are there many areas where the speed change goes directly from 100 to 50?

Edit1: I don't know about the South Island, not having driven/ridden there.
Edit2: Above not counting motorway offramps, of course.

yeah quite a few in the south...

[NighthawkNZ]

I'm thinking, and I can't think of any areas that go directly 100-50... All the ones I can think of go 100-70-50, or 100-80-60, or some such.

Are there many areas where the speed change goes directly from 100 to 50?

Edit1: I don't know about the South Island, not having driven/ridden there.
Edit2: Above not counting motorway offramps, of course.

There are a few down south and have been known to catch a few people out... However they usually have dirty great big signs and usually can't be missed...

One must remember you are suppose to be reduce your speed of the new sign posted speed limit by the time you pass it not slow down after... and you are not suppose to speed up till after you have passed it...

I do miss the days of the LSZ

[Ragingrob]

I'm thinking, and I can't think of any areas that go directly 100-50... All the ones I can think of go 100-70-50, or 100-80-60, or some such.

Are there many areas where the speed change goes directly from 100 to 50?

Edit1: I don't know about the South Island, not having driven/ridden there.
Edit2: Above not counting motorway offramps, of course.

Take a trip down to Ruapehu from Aucks and you'll find a few.

My aunt got busted at something stupid like 38kph over the speed limit when there were 30kph roadwork signs up on a 100kph but the roadworks had been long gone. :Pokey:

[YellowDog]

I got a dreaded letter today!! 108km in a 50km area from a ride a couple of weekes ago. does anyone know what me the outcome of this will be as the bike is not regersted in my name but the company I work for and own. I am very concerned about this. Not really an advocate for high speed and am certainly feeling extremely guilty about this.....my only defence on the matter is a belive the camera was just inside the 50km area and i hadnt slowed down in time which is my own fault. Any help and suggestion much appreciated. The only info I discoverd is for speeds up to 50km not anything over.

Cheers
You need to find out what is what and how things work before doing anything. This will stress you out more than actually losing your licence if you are not careful. Some of the advice you have been given is a bit dubious and could land you in more hot water.

Do you have any foreign mates with driving licence numbers you could enter as a test rider? Or maybe a punter who used and abused you before buying elsewhere :-) But seriously, I do not know how things actually work and that is why I am suggesting that you try and actually find out. The 'do nothing' seems to be the best option by far however do you actally know that 'The Licence Terminator' will go away so easily? I doubt it myself.

Good luck.

[peasea]

I'm thinking, and I can't think of any areas that go directly 100-50... All the ones I can think of go 100-70-50, or 100-80-60, or some such.

Are there many areas where the speed change goes directly from 100 to 50?

Edit1: I don't know about the South Island, not having driven/ridden there.
Edit2: Above not counting motorway offramps, of course.

There's one about 300m from my door and it's one of many on this route. The missus recently got plucked doing 60-odd in the fifty. It's annoying coz our road runs next to the SH and it's only natural to want 'keep up' with the traffic in the corner of your eye. A trap for newbies in the area. Bugger.

[McDuck]

I stand by my suggestion: You do not have to answer the police questions.



Dont worry, we can tell you come form edgecombe.



Not 'INTERNATIONAL'

[MaxB]

This is an illustration of when the 'must i.d. the driver' fell over.

I used to contract to a company that had a totally psycho boss (TPB). The company paid all speeding tickets (indirectly) that occurred on company business.

The reps knew this and gave T.P.B. a heads up of any incoming ticket. That kept him calm for a while. One day there was a ticket no one would admit to. Then another one arrived dated a few days later. Then came the police letter. TPB stormed down to the smoko room and told 'em confess now or the sackings start.

From that day on the staff clammed up. No amount of bullying would shake free any info. I think the cops made a few phone calls but that just made TPB angrier. When a cop showed up for a theft follow up the poor bastard was subjected to the kind of abuse usually saved for the staff. The cop did well for not reacting.

The upshot was that no one got prosectued but the accountant paid the fines behind TPBs back and it all went away. The camera tickets were for 10-20 kmh over, nothing too serious or expensive.

A while later I was getting a car repaired at the place that did the TPB cars. The owner told me that TPB got himself a reputation for hiring interns and students to do the shitty work and then conning them out of some of their pay on a technicality and pocketing the difference. One pretty overseas intern had had some 'problems' when working late with TPB. She handed in her notice and in her final weekend in NZ got the keys to a car and gave them to her boyfriend. By all accounts they had a great short touring holiday and were not that bothered about their speed!

[FJRider]

Will that REALLY work??:blink:

50 km's over the posted limit... its NOT a fine they're after. Its a licence. When asking for details of the rider, they want to know whose licence to take. If they cant get the details to take to court...

decisions decisions...

[Patrick]

I'm thinking, and I can't think of any areas that go directly 100-50... All the ones I can think of go 100-70-50, or 100-80-60, or some such.

Are there many areas where the speed change goes directly from 100 to 50?

Edit1: I don't know about the South Island, not having driven/ridden there.
Edit2: Above not counting motorway offramps, of course.

Plenty around here.... coming from the highways into the 'burbs. I go through 8 change of speed zones to get to work... oops... change that.... three sets of road works = 11 speed changes at the mo... and its only 16ks.


One must remember you are suppose to be reduce your speed of the new sign posted speed limit by the time you pass it not slow down after... and you are not suppose to speed up till after you have passed it...

I do miss the days of the LSZ

The LSZ are still around....

Officially, I suppose you're right.... but they give you some grace to reduce when coming from a higher speed into a lower speed zone, hence the 250m....

[retro asian]

One must remember you are suppose to be reduce your speed of the new sign posted speed limit by the time you pass it not slow down after... and you are not suppose to speed up till after you have passed it...

Such an easy mistake to make, that's why the cops target those areas.

I remember an episode of 10-7 where they stood at the end of the motorway going off towards Quay St...
I've also noticed cop cars also like to sit and wait in Kaukapakapa...

[MarkH]

I'm thinking, and I can't think of any areas that go directly 100-50... All the ones I can think of go 100-70-50, or 100-80-60, or some such.

Are there many areas where the speed change goes directly from 100 to 50?

Edit1: I don't know about the South Island, not having driven/ridden there.
Edit2: Above not counting motorway offramps, of course.

Throughout the North Island alone and not counting motorway offramps I would guess that there are several thousand places where the speed limit changes from 100-50. With many small towns there are roads that go from 100 to 50 then back to 100. Sometimes the main road into a small town will have a 70 zone between the 50 & the 100, but some other roads through town will just go from 100 to 50. With many smaller little townships the 50 zone is small and it is not worth creating a big 70 zone around it.

I have driven/ridden through a large number of rural townships around the Waikato and don't think of it as at unusual to see 100 to 50 then back to 100.

[bsasuper]

Own up to it, trying to weasel your way out of it will only make it worse for you,your boss will be asking questions, otherwise cross ya fingers and hope for the best.

[Mom]

Own up to it, trying to weasel your way out of it will only make it worse for you,your boss will be asking questions, otherwise cross ya fingers and hope for the best.

He is the boss mate :yes:

[ynot slow]

I recieved a photo invoice a couple of years ago,it wasn't my wife or myself as we had leant the car to her daughter,she kindly got pinged,I supplied the relevant details all witnessed and sent the form back,all fixed(except for the parking tickets).
Every company I've worked for has a policy you get a ticket you pay,if it is camera the company will have an idea who was driving,if in doubt they get the piccies.My last job,was any tickets were my problem,as I was the only one with a car,so if I recieve(hope not)an invoice it will be me only.