Oh good one Key: saving jobs - Bullshit

[Skyryder]

Swazzi a NZcompany losses a two mill contract from the NZ Army to China.

Another 'talkfest' on saving jobs starts tomorrow. What's the bet that the focus will be on tourism: Keys port folio.

Skyryder

[Indiana_Jones]

It is retarded, but the government doesn't have control into the daily running of the armed forces does it?

One would like to think so....

I don't think you can slap the blame on Key for this one.

But yea, "job summit" = talking about something the government has little/no control over

-Indy

[Tank]

Swazzi a NZcompany losses a two mill contract from the NZ Army to China.

Another 'talkfest' on saving jobs starts tomorrow. What's the bet that the focus will be on tourism: Keys port folio.

Skyryder

It did say that there were long standing procurement requirements - Perhaps Swazzi simply wasnt up to the job.

[Mully]

It's more complicated than that - as the story in the paper explains.

Yes, though, I agree that Key should be standing up and demanding that they source all the gear locally where they can (like the US has done).

Although, they source it from Australia at the moment, who source it from NZ.

FTAs (set up by your beloved Labour party) mean that NZ companies can't be "protected" by cheap labour sources in China (unless you want to get into Dumping Duty, which I have no desire to debate with you, and doesn't apply to clothing anyway)

[Swoop]

I wonder when the contracts were advertised and what the conditions in them were. I would look more at the Looney Labourite Sect for that one.

Nice to see that the leader of the opposition (who?) is so highly rated in the polls...

[Mully]

I
I don't think you can slap the blame on Key for this one.

Have you not met Skyryder?

[Skyryder]

It is retarded, but the government doesn't have control into the daily running of the armed forces does it?


This is not 'daily running.' Key talks about job retention. He once compare himself to Barack Obama. He needs to listen to this man too. Only yesterday Obama made a pledge to the American worker that 'American jobs were not going outside of America's borders.'

His comparison of Obama to himself is nothing more that pretenous twaddle from a money fiddler more interested in his own self interests than those of you and I.

Skyryder

[The Stranger]

Have you not met Skyryder?

I must admit I haven't.
He does appear to be somewhat of an enigma though.
On the one hand coming across as sane, rational and reasoned, however when it comes to politics ALL that goes out the window in favour of rabid zealotry.
Most odd.

[Oakie]

more interested in his own self interests than those of you and I.

Would you like to provide some evidence to back up this outrageous statement?

[Skyryder]

It's more complicated than that - as the story in the paper explains.

Yes, though, I agree that Key should be standing up and demanding that they source all the gear locally where they can (like the US has done).

Although, they source it from Australia at the moment, who source it from NZ.

FTAs (set up by your beloved Labour party) mean that NZ companies can't be "protected" by cheap labour sources in China (unless you want to get into Dumping Duty, which I have no desire to debate with you, and doesn't apply to clothing anyway)

I have never supported Labours Free Trade Agreements as my post on here can demonstrate. On this score Labour never recieved any votes from myself because of this. Not to be confused with another issue but the so called family values that both the Nats and their Govt partners espouse so often are never demonstrated by the Govt in respect to their fellow New Zealanders.

I don't expect NZ buisness to hold this veiw in respect of buisness operations but I do expect the Govt and their departments to put the interests of the family of Kiwis first and foremost before all else. This outsourcing to China is akin to neglecting the Kiwi family that makes up our nation.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Would you like to provide some evidence to back up this outrageous statement?

The lie he told on TV news about his share numbers that he held. Good enough??
Skyyrder

[Str8 Jacket]

It did say that there were long standing procurement requirements - Perhaps Swazzi simply wasnt up to the job.

Yep, and Procurement is an interesting world. I work for Internal Affairs Procurement Unit and when our team chose BMW's (waits for the berating to begin) for the politicians the media had a field day, making all sorts of things up just to get a reaction from the public. Just like I guess they are doing now. No one except those involved in the process will really know what the real story is, though it is awful to see NZ's economy taking such huge blows at the moment.
Maybe another case of the media "sensationalising" an emotive topic right now to make money?...

[firefighter]

How about the fact, that because of huge budget cuts going on, and the need for upgrading the defence force still being there that maybe the contracts went to China as it was the only way the gummint could afford to maintain it, upgrade it from the state it's in - and to try and rescue it from falling further behind?

(you can thank uncle Helen for the state it's in at the moment by the fucken way she squandered it down to an absolute destitute state, now it needs masses of money to bring it back to the year 2000, never mind 2009)

Do you have any idea what they need to spend on Whenuapai's buildings alone just to get all the infastructure sound and current again?

[ManDownUnder]

Swazzi a NZcompany losses a two mill contract from the NZ Army to China.

Another 'talkfest' on saving jobs starts tomorrow. What's the bet that the focus will be on tourism: Keys port folio.

Skyryder


Yeah good point - we're at risk of going down the financial shitter... key should do nothing!

[Hitcher]

Just because a clothing company is based in Levin and owned by Grizzly Adams doesn't necessarily mean that it is an efficient, effective or reliable supplier.

New Zealanders generally have a preference to support local suppliers. I imagine that with all of the public scrutiny its purchasing decisions receive, that the NZDF is no exception to that.

[Indiana_Jones]

This is not 'daily running.' Key talks about job retention. He once compare himself to Barack Obama. He needs to listen to this man too. Only yesterday Obama made a pledge to the American worker that 'American jobs were not going outside of America's borders.'

His comparison of Obama to himself is nothing more that pretenous twaddle from a money fiddler more interested in his own self interests than those of you and I.

Skyryder

I think sourcing gear and weapons servicing etc is everyday running.

where does it stop?

Sorry lads, Bill English says we can only fire 20 rounds at the enemy today.


And good for Obama for making a pledge....

-Indy

[davereid]

Labours Free-Trade agreement with China has meant that the Chinese can sell our army the gear it needs on a level footing with our own manufacturers.

It will hurt this Levin Business, as it has labour and compliance costs that mean if price alone is the criteria it cannot compete.

On the other hand, lots of other Levin businesses are doing well out of the FTA. Our local dairy, meat and specialised food producers are now able to export to China without taffifs.

We even export Babacoes there now, and The Chinese are developing a taste for good Chardonnay, as well as shipload after shipload of logs and coal.

Other Levin firms still sell to the army, MSA for example make the (bullet proof?) vests for Australia/New Zealand and so on.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Overall, the FTA will give NZ firms a massive market, and we will be better off for it.

The issue is what do we do with first world workers, on first world wages, in third world industries like clothing - electronics - process work manufacturing ?

[Tank]

The lie he told on TV news about his share numbers that he held. Good enough??
Skyyrder

You must write for the standard blog.

You are more one eyed than Sammy Davis, Jr

[firefighter]

Just because a clothing company is based in Levin and owned by Grizzly Adams doesn't necessarily mean that it is an efficient, effective or reliable supplier.

New Zealanders generally have a preference to support local suppliers. I imagine that with all of the public scrutiny its purchasing decisions receive, that the NZDF is no exception to that.

I think the issue with N.Z suppliers, is that they rip off the NZDF ten-fold.

A funny little oganisation who they buy just about everything through,(from pens through to standpipes/chairs/whathaveyou) whom you must order everything through (I didn't leave too long ago and it's till the same, I think it's a contractual thing)
They charge, up to......ready for it? Five times and in some cases more, than you can pay for things retail, for EVERYTHING you order, I mean fucken everything.......I won't get into specifics, but it's absurd.....
This on top of my previous post (which does come with insider knowledge BTW) may just be another of contributing factors towards their seeking business from China.....
Ask anyone in the defence force whos ever had to order anything from the company starting with the word "Black" and they will tell you how disgustingly obtuse their pricing is......it's absolutely fucked. In fact I struggle to know how it's even legal.

[Tank]

This is not 'daily running.' Key talks about job retention. He once compare himself to Barack Obama. He needs to listen to this man too. Only yesterday Obama made a pledge to the American worker that 'American jobs were not going outside of America's borders.'

His comparison of Obama to himself is nothing more that pretenous twaddle from a money fiddler more interested in his own self interests than those of you and I.

Skyryder

Actually what he said was:
"“I’m a bit like (Barack) Obama,” Mr Key, 47, told the Financial Times in an interview published today. “I am not institutionalised in Wellington”.

“I had 18 years in the commercial world and I will be quite pragmatic,” the old former Merrill Lynch investment banker said"

So all he was pointing is that he isnt a life long political player and has exprience outside of Wellington - A good thing I would have thought.

But hey - dont let context get in the way of your rant.

[MisterD]

Swazzi a NZcompany losses a two mill contract from the NZ Army to China.


Well it wasn't Key's government that signed the FTA with China - that's the big thing that will prevent any preference being given to a local manufacturer.


He once compare himself to Barack Obama.

In that he was an outsider to Wellington as the Obamessiah is to Washington...nothing more.


He needs to listen to this man too. Only yesterday Obama made a pledge to the American worker that 'American jobs were not going outside of America's borders.'


This from a man who promised to halve the federal deficit within four years only a week after signing into law an $800bn "stimulus package" which will be alomst entirely borrowed money...hmm, credible? Believable? Hell it doesn't matter, he's the "change we need".

Well excuse me if I point out that JK's as popular a PM as we've ever had and apparently climbing whilst BO's BS seems to have him sliding down to merely average approval ratings for a new president..

[Skyryder]

Yeah good point - we're at risk of going down the financial shitter... key should do nothing!

Yep if his financial managment of his NZ rail shares are an example.

Skyryder

[ManDownUnder]

Yep if his financial managment of his NZ rail shares are an example.

Skyryder

You mean fessing up to a possible conflict of interest, then making sure their management is totally beyond his influence thereby putting the interests of the country ahead of his own?

.. good point... I reckon we could all learn a thing or two from that.

Re offshore manufacture of NZ goods. It's inevitable. Global economy is heading to a point where the basic specialisations of each country must come to the fore. NZ is geographically remote from the world so manufacturing is always going to be at a disadvantage.

We need to get smart, use our location and natural assets to our best advantage then build infrastructre on that, and to support that. Look at Dubai - hell of a place. Hot, arid, dusty... but their future is looking better by the day. Tourism!

Quite whinging and work with the way things are - stop swimming upstream.

[Skyryder]

Key made a comparison to himself as against Obama..............period.

This was for political purposes. Not much point is saying hey I'm an outsider.too......when in fact when he was the opposition spokesman for transport and holding shares in NZ rail...............he was an insider. Just more bullshit from Key. This man has looked after himself, and on that score I have no complaints, but too suggest that he his going to look after NZ jobs on his track record I'd say it's more crap coming for a perfumed arse. It still stinks.

Like the job retention talkfest going on tomorrow. The focus of this will be tourism. Keys port folio.

Who's going to say I'm wrong?


Skyyrder

[ManDownUnder]

Who's going to say I'm wrong?
Skyyrder

Me. I'll put a beer on it.

It'll be included of course - it's a sensible thing to include. As for comparing himself to Obama - okay... what'd he say? And why is that a bad thing?

[The Pastor]

Me. I'll put a beer on it.

It'll be included of course - it's a sensible thing to include. As for comparing himself to Obama - okay... what'd he say? And why is that a bad thing?
i'll make it two beers.

[MisterD]

Who's going to say I'm wrong?


Me.

You really need to get your head of out this lefty mode of "The Government is the solution". Wise up, it isn't. All the government can do is set a framework and show a bit of leadership - which it has done. The rest is down to us, the governed, and whaddya know ASB bank stepped up.

[Tank]

Who's going to say I'm wrong?


Skyyrder

Add me to the list of 000's who think hes doing a good job and that your're wrong.

[ManDownUnder]

i'll make it two beers.

with me or against - just to be clear?

[Hitcher]

Who's going to say I'm wrong?

Helen Clark probably. She of the airbrushed image, counterfeit painting and speeding motorcade fame. An extremely credible witness is our Helen.

[firefighter]

Yep if his financial managment of his NZ rail shares are an example.

Skyryder

Is Mr Key not one of the richest men in N.Z? Just thought i'd point that out. I wonder how that is, he must be a bad businessman.

Personally due to this on it's own, I think he's certainly fit to lead this country with the current economic crisis going on.......

[MisterD]

As for comparing himself to Obama - okay... what'd he say? And why is that a bad thing?

Here you go:



"I'm a bit like (Barack) Obama," Mr Key, 47, told the Financial Times in an interview published today. "I am not institutionalised in Wellington".

"I had 18 years in the commercial world and I will be quite pragmatic," the old former Merrill Lynch investment banker said.

He obviously wasn't meaning that he was a corrupt lightweight that could only speak with an autocue. :niceone:

[ManDownUnder]

Is Mr Key not one of the richest men in N.Z? Just thought i'd point that out. I wonder how that is, he must be a bad businessman.

And he made his money how... oh that's right... managing foreign exchange!

What would he know about international business?

[The Pastor]

with me or against - just to be clear?
i dunno but after 3 beers i wont care anymore

[Delerium]

I think the issue with N.Z suppliers, is that they rip off the NZDF ten-fold.

A funny little oganisation who they buy just about everything through,(from pens through to standpipes/chairs/whathaveyou) whom you must order everything through (I didn't leave too long ago and it's till the same, I think it's a contractual thing)
They charge, up to......ready for it? Five times and in some cases more, than you can pay for things retail, for EVERYTHING you order, I mean fucken everything.......I won't get into specifics, but it's absurd.....
This on top of my previous post (which does come with insider knowledge BTW) may just be another of contributing factors towards their seeking business from China.....
Ask anyone in the defence force whos ever had to order anything from the company starting with the word "Black" and they will tell you how disgustingly obtuse their pricing is......it's absolutely fucked. In fact I struggle to know how it's even legal.

cough*blackwoodspaykle*cough, and they are often late or out of stock a=or send the wrong item. they are absolute arse!

[firefighter]

cough*blackwoodspaykle*cough, and they are often late or out of stock a=or send the wrong item. they are absolute arse!

Anyone would think you've dealt with them before? :whistle: :lol:

It's beyond me how they get away with it....imagine the savings if they dealt with an "honest" company? (seriously)

[ManDownUnder]

He obviously wasn't meaning that he was a corrupt lightweight that could only speak with an autocue. :niceone:

Oh Sweet Jesus - he's bringing real world experience into parliament???

[Swoop]

Is Mr Key not one of the richest men in N.Z? Just thought i'd point that out. I wonder how that is, he must be a bad businessman.
Correct. Having a person in charge of the country who is financially capable, is a fabulous change.

The retarded monkey-brained incompetents that we have had to endure for the last nine years, have happily emptied the bank accounts with their money-for-votes attempt. mr cullen (note deliberate non capitalisation) has provided the incoming government with a real problem to deal with.

[Fub@r]

i'll make it two beers.

Make it a dozen :)

As for the initial post that started this thread I won't waste my breath

[oldrider]

Red Labour Government, Blue Labour Government, what's the difference? :argue:

Blue Labour (aka National) seem like nicer people so far! :yes:

I certainly don't want the red ones back. (Helen and Michael) :nono:

So I will stick with blue Labour (Key) in the mean time. :rolleyes:

Hobson's Choice realy! :lol: John.

[MSTRS]

As for the initial post that started this thread I won't waste my breath

Exactly. If we were still under the jackboot of the inept, lying, arrogant social engineers, the first post would read something like "Isn't it wonderful how our beloved government are saving the country all that money".
Instead, we are treated to a pathetic dig at a capable man.

[Hitcher]

http://feeds.beehive.govt.nz/sites/all/files/100_Day_Plan_Completion.pdf

[James Deuce]

Correct. Having a person in charge of the country who is financially capable, is a fabulous change.

The retarded monkey-brained incompetents that we have had to endure for the last nine years, have happily emptied the bank accounts with their money-for-votes attempt. mr cullen (note deliberate non capitalisation) has provided the incoming government with a real problem to deal with.

9 years? More like 34 with a brief interregnum of 3 years while we figured out how fix Muldoon's wild borrowing prior to launching into 20 years of rabid speculation and borrowing.

The chickens, people. They want their roost back.

[Hoon]

The Chinese made wet weather gear is heaps better than the Swazi/Yakka ones we've had for the last 10 years.
Not only does the DPM pattern match the rest of our uniform now, the chinese gear is lighter, less bulkier and makes less noise as well.
It would've been nice to keep the contract in NZ but the Swazi gear is just plain inferior. If they could've come up with a comparable product then that's all good but I guess they couldn't.

[pete376403]

Correct. Having a person in charge of the country who is financially capable, is a fabulous change..

yeah but unfortunately Key is one of (many) "financial wizards" that helped drop the world into its current shithole.

Key, like almost every political figure other than Ghandi, looks out for himself first.

[Str8 Jacket]

Instead, we are treated to a pathetic dig at a capable man.

Only time will tell!


The Chinese made wet weather gear is heaps better than the Swazi/Yakka ones we've had for the last 10 years.
Not only does the DPM pattern match the rest of our uniform now, the chinese gear is lighter, less bulkier and makes less noise as well.
It would've been nice to keep the contract in NZ but the Swazi gear is just plain inferior. If they could've come up with a comparable product then that's all good but I guess they couldn't.

Funny old thing Procurement. Things are never black and white and its not all about saving money, its about getting BEST VALUE for money.... Unfortunately only those involved in the process will know the real truth...

[Swoop]

yeah but unfortunately Key is one of (many) "financial wizards" that helped drop the world into its current shithole.
So, Key owns GE Money, Instant finance, or some other lending institution?
Please enlighten me.


Key, like almost every political figure other than Ghandi, looks out for himself first.
If that is so, can you please explain why he is not accepting the wages being paid to the PM? Instead he is donating them to charity. How do you explain that?

[MSTRS]

Only time will tell!


Ah, Hels...it already has. Keys actually made a success of himself out there in the big, scary world BEFORE he turned his hand to politics. Whereas the loony left is full of career political students and slimy lawyers.

[Str8 Jacket]

Ah, Hels...it already has. Keys actually made a success of himself out there in the big, scary world BEFORE he turned his hand to politics. Whereas the loony left is full of career political students and slimy lawyers.

Lets see what he does to the country over the next few years with all that experience of his eh! I am not pre judging, I just hope that he sorts this country and not the opposite... Look abit weird having a very wealthy man for PM if NZ does actually run out of money dontcha think?... :wait:

[R6_kid]

The Chinese made wet weather gear is heaps better than the Swazi/Yakka ones we've had for the last 10 years.
Not only does the DPM pattern match the rest of our uniform now, the chinese gear is lighter, less bulkier and makes less noise as well.
It would've been nice to keep the contract in NZ but the Swazi gear is just plain inferior. If they could've come up with a comparable product then that's all good but I guess they couldn't.

Yes, but according to skyrider it doesn't matter that your gear doesnt match, isnt properly waterproof, or that it's heavier, clumsier and makes more noise - it wasn't made in EN ZUD and therefore it's John Keys fault.

[MSTRS]

Lets see what he does to the country over the next few years with all that experience of his eh! I am not pre judging, I just hope that he sorts this country and not the opposite... Look abit weird having a very wealthy man for PM if NZ does actually run out of money dontcha think?... :wait:

That's fair. How many years will you give him to prove one way or the other? 9?

[Str8 Jacket]

That's fair. How many years will you give him to prove one way or the other? 9?

Well I am more "advantaged" than some because if my occupation...

I wont put years on it but to be honest if he makes it to a 2nd term then that would be helpful. IMO I think that we may actually see a trend that will help make that decision over the next 3 years but you can never fairly judge any plans/words/proposals until they have come into fruition so 9 years may actually be a good call.

[pete376403]

So, Key owns GE Money, Instant finance, or some other lending institution?
Please enlighten me.


If that is so, can you please explain why he is not accepting the wages being paid to the PM? Instead he is donating them to charity. How do you explain that?

Unconventional and very complicated financial transactions made by financial institutions worldwide had a very major bearing on the current situation. Key worked as a trader in one of these institutions (Merril Lynch -which appears to have gone tits-up and been bought at a fire sale by Bank of America). Key made his pile in an environment like this - it's what he knows works - for him.

As for donating his wage to charity - it's petty cash compared to what he already has and the political benefits far outweigh the dollar cost. And you can be absolutely sure there is some sort of tax writeoff in there somewhere.

However you seem happy to see him as Saint John of Helensville (oh what an ironic name for his electorate

[Str8 Jacket]

Everyone has a personal life and their own money to do with it what they please, even the PM.

[Fub@r]

Swazzi a NZcompany losses a two mill contract from the NZ Army to China.

Another 'talkfest' on saving jobs starts tomorrow. What's the bet that the focus will be on tourism: Keys port folio.

Skyryder


I see on the news tonight that this decision was made last year by Yakka..........so can we blame Aunty Helen now?

[Skyryder]

yeah but unfortunately Key is one of (many) "financial wizards" that helped drop the world into its current shithole.

Key, like almost every political figure other than Ghandi, looks out for himself first.

Most sensible comment to date. :Punk: Next to mine that is.:2guns:

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

I see on the news tonight that this decision was made last year by Yakka..........so can we blame Aunty Helen now?

Nope. She ain't the Government.

[Skyryder]

You mean fessing up to a possible conflict of interest, then making sure their management is totally beyond his influence thereby putting the interests of the country ahead of his own?

.. good point... I reckon we could all learn a thing or two from that.


He lost money. Not much to learn from that and then lied. Most never learned from that either.

Skyyrder

[Pixie]

Labour would have probably contracted the the job of defending NZ to the Chinese.
Look at the pros:
Real guns
Jets
Nukulah deterent (maybe not so attractive to Labour and the Hippies)
Nice matching red tinge

[Skyryder]

http://feeds.beehive.govt.nz/sites/all/files/100_Day_Plan_Completion.pdf

What another govt blurb giving itself a scratch on it's back. You can do better than that Hitch.

Skyryder

[MisterD]

He lost money. Not much to learn from that and then lied. Most never learned from that either.


Come on, you can't have it both ways. He can't be a scheming b'stard who cynically abused his position to make money on transrail shares and a muppet who couldn't make money on the markets to save himself...

[piston broke]

i can't be arsed reading the whole thread.
but i believe that the original contract was let to an ausi company,they then employed a kiwi company to make the gear,ausi company still has the contract.
as for the muldoon comment,even if he did put nz into debt,at least he kept most of us in jobs,the same is needed now

[Lonebull]

Swazzi a NZcompany losses a two mill contract from the NZ Army to China.

Another 'talkfest' on saving jobs starts tomorrow. What's the bet that the focus will be on tourism: Keys port folio.

Skyryder

I just don't know what the fuck is going on. Talk about inability to see the bigger picture. The Army saves money by taking it from social welfare. Swazi have made a big effort to stay onshore and now some bookworm in a uniform kicks them in the knads. So here's the big one for you whoever you are:finger:

[Fub@r]

Nope. She ain't the Government.

Please explain how Key is accountable for an australian companies decision LAST YEAR to obtain equipment from China rather than the current NZ supplier to fulfil its current contract with the NZ military?

The aussie company was the successful tenderer under a Labor administration.

[piston broke]

Please explain how Key is accountable for an australian companies decision LAST YEAR to obtain equipment from China rather than the current NZ supplier to fulfil its current contract with the NZ military?

The aussie company was the successful tenderer under a Labor administration.

you won't get an explination as the truth hurts

[Swoop]

"I don't know"...


However you seem happy to see him as Saint John of Helensville (oh what an ironic name for his electorate
Extremely happy. A massive improvement over the "creature from the black latrine".

Labour would have probably contracted the the job of defending NZ to the Chinese.
Look at the pros:
Real guns
Jets
Nukulah deterent (maybe not so attractive to Labour and the Hippies)
Nice matching red tinge
What's the bet the uniforms arrive from china with nice tracking devices in them?? Bought anything from Kathmandhu stores recently?

The other drawback would be if we are defended by china, that would make us part of their "cartel"...
People do know about the Russians shooting and sinking a chinese ship which was delivering produce to their country recently, don't they???

[Skyryder]

Please explain how Key is accountable for an australian companies decision LAST YEAR to obtain equipment from China rather than the current NZ supplier to fulfil its current contract with the NZ military?

The aussie company was the successful tenderer under a Labor administration.


The NZ Army and our defence force are employed to protect NZ interests. Our MP's and politilal leaders are elected to represent our interests. As mentioned earlier in my posts I have not supported Labour in Free trade deals at the expense on NZ industy. My posts reflect that.

My original post is that Key talks the talk but does not walk the walk.

The government can change the laws and if necessary break contracts that have been agreed to by a previous government. I don't deny there would be repercussions because of this but if they had the will and fortitude this could hve been done and it may be cheaper than we;lfare handouts for those that may lose their jobs.

On a more pragmatic level I'm not sure that or Map or Key could have foreseen the backlash that this created. That Map knew of the change of supplier was evident of his interview in Close Up tonight.

At least Map has agreed to review the way contracts and the processes involve so that they 'can' do better in the future and he has said that He (Map) is gong to hold further talks with Yakka on this issue.

I take this as at least one of Keys Ministers holds a simular philosophy to NZ industry as myself.

Skyryder

[puddy]

Swazzi a NZcompany losses a two mill contract from the NZ Army to China.

Another 'talkfest' on saving jobs starts tomorrow. What's the bet that the focus will be on tourism: Keys port folio.

Skyryder
Get a job at the UN, or become a treaty negotiator, or the media.

[Skyryder]

Come on, you can't have it both ways. He can't be a scheming b'stard who cynically abused his position to make money on transrail shares and a muppet who couldn't make money on the markets to save himself...

I think you have got it the wrong way round.

He 'lost' money on his Tranz Rail shares and made money on the market.

Skyryder

[T.W.R]

:woohoo: the rich get richer & the poor get poorer :bash:

:chase: watchout third world here we come
just don't mention the rethink on tax cuts :shutup:
The country will get reamed and key with toodle of to his multi million dollar holiday home in Hawaii :doh:

[Mully]

Jesus Christ people, stop feeding the Troll.

[Finn]

So let me get this straight SkyRyder... In the few months that National have been in Government, they managed to make Swazzi uncompetitive to a point they lost a small contract with the military. Riiiiiiight...

Then we have the compulsory government tendering process which came out late last year for this supply contract... when Liarbour were pissing about. Ooooookay...

For fuck sake pinko, give the guy a break. Clearly you're just pissed with life as a minority lefty.

[Skyryder]

So let me get this straight SkyRyder... In the few months that National have been in Government, they managed to make Swazzi uncompetitive to a point they lost a small contract with the military. Riiiiiiight...

Then we have the compulsory government tendering process which came out late last year for this supply contract... when Liarbour were pissing about. Ooooookay...

For fuck sake pinko, give the guy a break. Clearly you're just pissed with life as a minority lefty.

Nope I'm not the one who always threating to leave NZ.


Skyryder

[puddy]

Nope I'm not the one who always threating to leave NZ.


Skyryder
Would ya though? Go on. I dare ya! Bwahahahahaha!
UN job overseas! Helen's ASSistant!:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bas h::bash:

[Indiana_Jones]

Remember kids, no one is allowed to compare anyone or yourself to the great Obama!

-Indy

[pete376403]

Remember kids, no one is allowed to compare anyone or yourself to the great Obama!

-Indy

John Key has already done that.

[Indiana_Jones]

John Key has already done that.

Yea, but the way some people go on about it, you'd think the bastard fucked his mum and dog at the same time in a pool of jelly

-Indy

[Finn]

Nope I'm not the one who always threating to leave NZ.


Skyryder

Every time I try, the queue is just too long.

[Tank]

John Key has already done that.

Actually he was drawing a parallel - but your usual labour voter cant get past the headline written in crayon.

edit: read the pervious post where I quoted it.

[Skyryder]

Actually he was drawing a parallel - but your usual labour voter cant get past the headline written in crayon.

edit: read the pervious post where I quoted it.

In the context that Key has been quoted you could use both parallel or comparison. "“I’m a bit like (Barack) Obama,” Mr Key, 47, told the Financial Times in an interview published today. “I am not institutionalised in Wellington”.

Together they are in paralell as both statements of Key are a comparison to Obama

'I'm a bit like' and 'I am not institutionalised' are statements of comparison. Paralell means not only in the same direction as use in geometry but of a comparison in that both are alike. Journos who have been trained in the correct word usage have used comparison as I have done.

Skyryder

[retro asian]

New Zealanders generally have a preference to support local suppliers.

Sure everyone says that...but does that really come into practice?

Why not buy Asian-made (90% of everything made these days) and have more money left over to spend on the things you love (more Asian made goods)?

[Brett]

In the context that Key has been quoted you could use both parallel or comparison. "“I’m a bit like (Barack) Obama,” Mr Key, 47, told the Financial Times in an interview published today. “I am not institutionalised in Wellington”.

Together they are in paralell as both statements of Key are a comparison to Obama

'I'm a bit like' and 'I am not institutionalised' are statements of comparison. Paralell means not only in the same direction as use in geometry but of a comparison in that both are alike. Journos who have been trained in the correct word usage have used comparison as I have done.

Skyryder

Yes, but taking one statement from an entire interview and not looking at its context is a prime way that the media manipulates what it reports.

I mean, I could say "I am like Adolf Hitler, we are both men." and someone could quote me as saying "I am like Adolf Hitler" said Brett.

[Hoon]

The Chinese made wet weather gear is heaps better than the Swazi/Yakka ones we've had for the last 10 years.
Not only does the DPM pattern match the rest of our uniform now, the chinese gear is lighter, less bulkier and makes less noise as well.
It would've been nice to keep the contract in NZ but the Swazi gear is just plain inferior.

Just saw the piece on TV3 News, they showed inside the Swazi factory which was actually making the new wet weather gears that I thought were Chinese made! So guess I was wrong and got them confused - sorry the Swazi gear is not inferior! It seems there was a new design of wet weathers that is now being manufactured by Swazi and this manufacture is going to China.

That changes everything, this makes it purely a cost thing and nothing to do with design. I'm swinging more towards Swazi now and reckon the Army can afford a "little" extra to save NZ jobs!

[JimO]

Swazzi a NZcompany losses a two mill contract from the NZ Army to China.

Another 'talkfest' on saving jobs starts tomorrow. What's the bet that the focus will be on tourism: Keys port folio.

Skyryder

dont let the truth get in the way of a anti national rant you labour loving cheese eater

[davereid]

What amazes me is the complexity of getting a bloody rain coat.

I mean the army has what - 4000-5000 guys.

Supported by a head office the size of the swazi factory. Which had to contract an aussie company to order a raincoat.

The local high schools here are bigger than the bloody army.

They get the office lady to get three quotes, and next years uniform requiments are sorted.

There should be job losses here, but they should be in Wellington.

[Indiana_Jones]

"I am like Adolf Hitler"

OMG!

You're like Hitler!!!!

-Indy

[MisterD]

Quick! Someone ask JK who invented the automobile, cos Obama sure doesn't know (http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-02-25-obama-claim-daimler-differs_N.htm)!

Sh1t! It also appears that he thinks he's been to 57 of America's states with just one left to go!

Dumb as a box of hammers...but hey the media love him. Just imagine the reaction if GWB had said the same...

[Swoop]

Every time I try, the queue is just too long.
That will be caused by all of the labour party heading off for job interviews at the UN. They are never able to get a real job, so that is their next "career move".:doh:

[MSTRS]

Yes, but taking one statement from an entire interview and not looking at its context is a prime way that the media manipulates what it reports.

I mean, I could say "I am like Adolf Hitler, we are both men." and someone could quote me as saying "I am like Adolf Hitler" said Brett.

And worse still, they could cut the excerpt (to save ink, don't you know) and simply report that "I like Hitler"
Fucken media have a great deal to answer for, in terms of the adverse influence on Johnny Reader

[ManDownUnder]

Another 'talkfest' on saving jobs starts tomorrow. What's the bet that the focus will be on tourism: Keys port folio.

Skyryder

Just had a quick look (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10559039) and ... my eyes must be failing me. Seems to be a general heads of industry trying to identify things they can do to promote the economy and boost the number of jobs.

... heartless bastards. What's that ever going to do for the working class?

You're right though Skyrider - tourism's plastered all over it. Guess I owe you that beer huh?

[BMWST?]

cough*blackwoodspaykle*cough, and they are often late or out of stock a=or send the wrong item. they are absolute arse!

blame the proccess that got them the contract in the first place...a bit like the process that sent millions of our dollars offshore for ever,as opposed to a stuation where tax payers money really does get recycled in our economy.

[firefighter]

Look abit weird having a very wealthy man for PM if NZ does actually run out of money dontcha think?... :wait:

I think with the way things are, this could be a truth no-matter what he does, it's how well it's handled as a whole and how we get through it compared to other countries that will show whether he made good or bad decisions.....


Yes, but according to skyrider it doesn't matter that your gear doesnt match, isnt properly waterproof, or that it's heavier, clumsier and makes more noise - it wasn't made in EN ZUD and therefore it's John Keys fault.

You forgot, that it is also probably grossly over-priced.


:woohoo: the rich get richer & the poor get poorer :bash:
just don't mention the rethink on tax cuts :shutup:
The country will get reamed and key with toodle of to his multi million dollar holiday home in Hawaii :doh:

You really believe uncle helen would do better?
I take it you have'nt read the 'bit' on bar room economics?


In the context that Key has been quoted you could use both parallel or comparison. "“I’m a bit like (Barack) Obama,” Mr Key, 47, told the Financial Times in an interview published today. “I am not institutionalised in Wellington”.
'I'm a bit like' and 'I am not institutionalised' are statements of comparison. Paralell means not only in the same direction as use in geometry but of a comparison in that both are alike. Journos who have been trained in the correct word usage have used comparison as I have done.


After your rediculous blatant missuse of comments I made in another thread yesturday, it seems that like the media, you will use any excuse to over interpret something/miss-use something someone said for the purpose of using it against them, in a way they obviously (to everyone but you) did'nt intend, and that no-matter how well it's explained to you, you won't let it go.

You twist and put rediculous spins on things, where everyone but apparently you seem to realise what was truely meant.

It does'nt make you sound smart- more purposefully arrogant, or are you just a dick? :girlfight:

[firefighter]

blame the proccess that got them the contract in the first place...a bit like the process that sent millions of our dollars offshore for ever,as opposed to a stuation where tax payers money really does get recycled in our economy.

Go back a few pages and read an earlier post of mine, there's other things to consider in the big picture, like the savings made from a hugely over priced factory will probably go towards upgrading the NZDF's assets-which by the way can no-longer be ignored (uncle helen should have done this when the money was there, instead there's now fucked defence areas which need immediate work done-guess how many million needs to be spent on whenuapais infastructure alone thanks to shitbour?)
It's all part of tightening up the money being spent, and redirecting funds as best as possible to keep things going, upgrade, repair and maintain the big picture.....everyone seems to have missed out on this reality behind it and focussed on the whole- "oh my god an overpriced factory was outbid by china"

[Patrick]

The lie he told on TV news about his share numbers that he held. Good enough??
Skyyrder

I would doubt he would sign a painting as being his, or leave cops hanging out to dry if he wanted a "quick trip" to the rugby.....

EDIT . Damn... HItch beat me to it...

[Patrick]

I think the issue with N.Z suppliers, is that they rip off the NZDF ten-fold.

A funny little oganisation who they buy just about everything through,(from pens through to standpipes/chairs/whathaveyou) whom you must order everything through (I didn't leave too long ago and it's till the same, I think it's a contractual thing)
They charge, up to......ready for it? Five times and in some cases more, than you can pay for things retail, for EVERYTHING you order, I mean fucken everything.......I won't get into specifics, but it's absurd.....


Thought we were using the same company... but nope... we use another, who is exactly the same. It is a supplier who has the right to print money...

Also Air NZ - last time I flew to AK on business, the dept gets charged about $600 return New Plymouth to Auckland. Usual fare is a fraction of that.........


cough*blackwoodspaykle*cough,

Don't know this one.....


I see on the news tonight that this decision was made last year by Yakka..........so can we blame Aunty Helen now?


Nope. She ain't the Government.

C'mon Skyrider... if ya gonna wear an eye patch, use just one... take the other one off now.....


In the context that Key has been quoted you could use both parallel or comparison. "“I’m a bit like (Barack) Obama,” Mr Key, 47, told the Financial Times in an interview published today. “I am not institutionalised in Wellington”.

Last time I looked, Obama hasn't even been to Wellington, let alone be"institutionalised" in Wellington.

Neither am I....

Shit!!!! I just compared myself to Obama...????????

[T.W.R]

You really believe uncle helen would do better?
I take it you have'nt read the 'bit' on bar room economics?


:laugh: well I don't really care which or who is in power their all out to look after #1 no matter what they say or promise. Though being debt & mortgage free and coping reasonably well with the way things are heading I've got more fear of this bunch screwing the average kiwi's future than what labour would have done, they're already retracting on things they said they'd implement, not bad considering they've only been at the helm a few months :shifty:

[Skyryder]

I think with the way things are, this could be a truth no-matter what he does, it's how well it's handled as a whole and how we get through it compared to other countries that will show whether he made good or bad decisions.....



You forgot, that it is also probably grossly over-priced.



You really believe uncle helen would do better?
I take it you have'nt read the 'bit' on bar room economics?



After your rediculous blatant missuse of comments I made in another thread yesturday, it seems that like the media, you will use any excuse to over interpret something/miss-use something someone said for the purpose of using it against them, in a way they obviously (to everyone but you) did'nt intend, and that no-matter how well it's explained to you, you won't let it go.

You twist and put rediculous spins on things, where everyone but apparently you seem to realise what was truely meant.

It does'nt make you sound smart- more purposefully arrogant, or are you just a dick? :girlfight:

Ene meeny miny mo catch a nigger buy it's toe. If it squeels let it go ene meny miny mo.

You choose>


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

:laugh: well I don't really care which or who is in power their all out to look after #1 no matter what they say or promise. Though being debt & mortgage free and coping reasonably well with the way things are heading I've got more fear of this bunch screwing the average kiwi's future than what labour would have done, they're already retracting on things they said they'd implement, not bad considering they've only been at the helm a few months :shifty:

Good one. A snake may change it's skin but it's an exact replical of the old one. Key got plenty or practice on this before the election. No one took much notice. They will sooner or later.


Skyryder

[firefighter]

:laugh: well I don't really care which or who is in power their all out to look after #1 no matter what they say or promise. Though being debt & mortgage free and coping reasonably well with the way things are heading I've got more fear of this bunch screwing the average kiwi's future than what labour would have done, they're already retracting on things they said they'd implement, not bad considering they've only been at the helm a few months :shifty:

Mr Key is a multi-millionaire.....he made more money than I ever will, so much of it he does'nt even keep his salary....i'm sure you don't have to worry too much about how his government will look after the average kiwi!

I am actually not aware of any election promises he's made that are'nt going ahead- where it would'nt be absolutely foolish to still go ahead with them? (seriously - i'm actually not having a dig)

[Skyryder]

I would doubt he would sign a painting as being his, or leave cops hanging out to dry if he wanted a "quick trip" to the rugby.....

EDIT . Damn... HItch beat me to it...

OK fair point. But here's the difference. The 'painting' was to be auctioned for charity Keys lie was deception for personal gain.

And I have made my points on speedgate long back in which we would no doubt be in agreement. If you are going to bring up old stuff against me do your homework first.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Every time I try, the queue is just too long.

I'd get back in pronto. Under Keys leadership:laugh: it's gonna get miles longer.


Skyryder

[T.W.R]

Mr Key is a multi-millionaire.....he made more money than I ever will, so much of it he does'nt even keep his salary....i'm sure you don't have to worry too much about how his government will look after the average kiwi!



:yawn: you should have a check up on what he actually did to make his money & :laugh: not keeping his salary makes him a saint that can be trusted does it ?

[Skyryder]

Mr Key is a multi-millionaire.....he made more money than I ever will, so much of it he does'nt even keep his salary....i'm sure you don't have to worry too much about how his government will look after the average kiwi!

Well we agree on something. The way he's going with his support for the Swazzi workers he's making sure they don't keep their salary either. Yep good ole John just one of the workers.:bash:


Skyryder

[Mully]

they're already retracting on things they said they'd implement, not bad considering they've only been at the helm a few months :shifty:

I know I said not to feed the trolls, but;

Can we have some examples, please??

[ynot slow]

Also Air NZ - last time I flew to AK on business, the dept gets charged about $600 return New Plymouth to Auckland. Usual fare is a fraction of that.........


Re Air NZ,dad has been in travel agency bussiness for over 35yrs as owner/worker,he always got annoyed when his mates would say,shit them fares to Oz are cheap(say $300 rtn)a few years ago,he said yep can fly for 25% of retail,his mates said shit $80 or so to Oz.Nope said pops,25%of $995 the normal fare at the time,just cause they had competition the fares were usually cheaper.

Also can remember when we had a decent clothing industry,our firm had the army shirt contract one time,the managing director was overheard to say it was a license to print money,they always paid,simple garment,and quick to manufacture,he had the staff with satelite factories in Otara,Foxton,Eltham,Opunake and Hawera.

[Delerium]

What amazes me is the complexity of getting a bloody rain coat.

I mean the army has what - 4000-5000 guys.

Supported by a head office the size of the swazi factory. Which had to contract an aussie company to order a raincoat.

The local high schools here are bigger than the bloody army.

They get the office lady to get three quotes, and next years uniform requiments are sorted.

There should be job losses here, but they should be in Wellington.

closer to 10,000 including territorials. also dont forget that the issued clothing is tri service and not just army issue.

[Delerium]

Go back a few pages and read an earlier post of mine, there's other things to consider in the big picture, like the savings made from a hugely over priced factory will probably go towards upgrading the NZDF's assets-which by the way can no-longer be ignored (uncle helen should have done this when the money was there, instead there's now fucked defence areas which need immediate work done-guess how many million needs to be spent on whenuapais infastructure alone thanks to shitbour?)
It's all part of tightening up the money being spent, and redirecting funds as best as possible to keep things going, upgrade, repair and maintain the big picture.....everyone seems to have missed out on this reality behind it and focussed on the whole- "oh my god an overpriced factory was outbid by china"

hmmmm such as bristol block, the hangers, the runway, and most working areas that need upgrading and roof work. unfortunately not only whenuapai needs work, but you already know that.

[Sollyboy]

Would you like to provide some evidence to back up this outrageous statement?

I could think of 50,000,000 of them

[MSTRS]

....they're already retracting on things they said they'd implement....

Like what? The 2010 second installment tax relief that Liarbour 'promised'? Key agreed to honour that blatant vote-buying ploy simply to introduce a level paying (sic) field. Did you fail to notice the changed world economic outlook?
Oh, how short memories can be. How's your chewing gum lasting?

[Drunken Monkey]

... that they source all the gear locally where they can (like the US has done)....

Hmmm, but that's a slightly not-above-board one. The US military gear is supplied by US companies, however it's not all necessarily made in the USA. Some of the clothing is "hencho en Honduras", amongst other places. That gear is made under contract to a US supplier who has the mil contract. So it's not all roses, so to speak.

[Skyryder]

Of the twenty ideas that came out of Fridays Jobs Summit only one has been tagged with a financial figure in today’s Christchurch Press (28-Feb-09) Yep no prizes for this one. Government to put money into $60 million fund, in partnership with the private sector for TOURISM AND DEVELOPMENT.

And some here will still think that this is about jobs. What a load of old cock. This was nothing more than a cheap charade at our expense for some self promotion for Key and his Ministerial portfolio.

Which is what I said at the start of this thread in my first post.


Skyryder

[davereid]

Yeah, we'll leave it up to the unions to save all the jobs, that will be best. Maybe we can get some advice from the unions at General Motors.

[Skyryder]

Yeah, we'll leave it up to the unions to save all the jobs, that will be best. Maybe we can get some advice from the unions at General Motors.

The point of my original post was that this 'talk fest' is not about jobs. You still think that it is. It's nothing more than self promotion. That many see Key as the most popular of all our PM's is only a measure of how successful he is at this or how dumb the NZ electorate is. I'd go with the former on the basis is that you can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time? AL


Skyryder

[MSTRS]

You really should be in politics SR. You are full of criticism and lacking in substance. Doubt that you'd do well tho, now that we have a change in style.
The reason that Key is proving popular is because he refuses to indulge in that crap.

[MisterD]

And some here will still think that this is about jobs. What a load of old cock. This was nothing more than a cheap charade at our expense for some self promotion for Key and his Ministerial portfolio.

Except for the fact that tourism is one of our key (no pun intended) export markets...which as Johnny boy said during the campaign, is the reason he intended taking it as his portfolio rather than Art and Signing Other Peoples' Paintings, or whatever HC used to inhabit with her girlfriend, the equally unlamented J.Tizard...

Our economy revolves around primary production and tourism...any guesses which is actually the easiest to influence at short notice?

[MSTRS]

Ask yourself what NZ has, that the world wants (or needs) and can't get any other way?
The answer is quite clear.

[Skyryder]

Ask yourself what NZ has, that the world wants (or needs) and can't get any other way?
The answer is quite clear.

Clean and green. What's the bet that this will be fucked with the new RMA proposals. Like does anyone believe that multi national corperations give a toss about our environment. That's where you and I live.


Skyyrder

[scumdog]

Clean and green. What's the bet that this will be fucked with the new RMA proposals. Like does anyone believe that multi national corperations give a toss about our environment. That's where you and I live.


Skyyrder

A bankrupt world won't give a fat rats arse about clean and green SR, cheapest price will be where it's at.

[smoky]

NZ depends on open and fair access to foreign markets to survive - like it or not we would not do so well only selling to our domestic market.
Yes other country's do practice protectionism and give preference to products from their own country - we kind of need the political moral high ground as an advantage in trade negotiations

So it's up to us all as individuals to protect NZ products in our domestic markets - buy NZ made

John Key - how hard do you think it is for him to talk about saving jobs when his successful career was built on a slash and burn mentality, cutting jobs in order to decrease overheads

Talk fest in Auckland on Friday - I attended and participated in one of the workshops, there were some pretty cleaver people and ideas, but it was interesting that the government had already assessed most of them, and we were largely discussing pre-concluded ideals that won't make any difference to how the government will respond to things.

A waste of time perhaps?

I did learn that 1 out of 3 companies in NZ will be laying off staff in the next 12 months!

[Oscar]

Swazzi a NZcompany losses a two mill contract from the NZ Army to China.

Another 'talkfest' on saving jobs starts tomorrow. What's the bet that the focus will be on tourism: Keys port folio.

Skyryder


Wake up.
You (and the whingeing left) can't have it both ways.
NZ lives off its exports and we whine our arses off about protectionism when it suits.

Make up your mind - free trade and CER, or job protection.

[Skyryder]

Wake up.
You (and the whingeing left) can't have it both ways.
NZ lives off its exports and we whine our arses off about protectionism when it suits.

Make up your mind - free trade and CER, or job protection.

Another one who does not know what they are on about. The Free Trade Agreement according to the Nats 'is' about job protection. So it's FTA and job protection. Not FTA 'or' job protection.



Skyryder

[Oscar]

Another one who does not know what they are on about. The Free Trade Agreement according to the Nats 'is' about job protection. So it's FTA and job protection. Not FTA 'or' job protection.



Skyryder

Explain to me, then how we can have free trade on your terms, then?
We get to sell a load of products into China, but then we refuse to accept their goods into our market to protect our jobs.

[Ocean1]

Explain to me, then how we can have free trade on your terms, then?
We get to sell a load of products into China, but then we refuse to accept their goods into our market to protect our jobs.

Explain it?

It's close to a perfect description or your typical lunatic left comprehension about trade.

The explanation from that direction is simply that our trading partners are all bastards and should mend their evel ways by just giving us shit.

<_<

[Skyryder]

Explain it?

It's close to a perfect description or your typical lunatic left comprehension about trade.

The explanation from that direction is simply that our trading partners are all bastards and should mend their evel ways by just giving us shit.<_<

So you trust Chinese food manufactures. The fact that this has been in the pipe line for years has got to say something about their methods.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/03/01/2504353.htm

We sell our green clean food to China and what we get in return is doubt about food quality.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Explain to me, then how we can have free trade on your terms, then?
We get to sell a load of products into China, but then we refuse to accept their goods into our market to protect our jobs.

Their goods into our markets to protect our jobs??. Where you been. Ever heard of Rodgernomics.

Basicly we imported cheap goods from asia to the detriment of our own industry. Tha t cost jobs it did not creat them.

It's one of the reasons I'm so hostile to the Nats. THE SILENCE OF ACT IS A BAROMETER OF HOW FAR KEY IS MOVING TO THE RIGHT. Key has correctly assessed the publics hostility of Labour that they can do what they like with little opposition other than that coming from traditional quarters Labour:unions etc. For those that lived through Rodgenomics that is going be picnic compared to what is coming.


Skyryder.

[Skyryder]

Explain to me, then how we can have free trade on your terms, then?
We get to sell a load of products into China, but then we refuse to accept their goods into our market to protect our jobs.

Double post sorry mods

[scumdog]

Basicly we imported cheap goods from asia to the detriment of our own industry. Tha t cost jobs it did not creat them.

Summed up that quite well.:niceone:

[Patrick]

OK fair point. But here's the difference. The 'painting' was to be auctioned for charity Keys lie was deception for personal gain.

And I have made my points on speedgate long back in which we would no doubt be in agreement. If you are going to bring up old stuff against me do your homework first.


Skyryder

I was having a dig against just a couple of Helens old indiscretions, not against you....

Hang on... Youre Helen!!!!!!!!!! Skyrider is a nom de plume!!!!!!!!

Hope all is well over at the Hague? You're not coming back soon, I hope?:eek:

And I hate homework...:doh:

[Skyryder]

THE SILENCE OF ACT IS A BAROMETER OF HOW FAR KEY IS MOVING TO THE RIGHT. Key has correctly assessed the publics hostility of Labour that they can do what they like with little opposition other than that coming from traditional quarters Labour:unions etc.

Skyryder.

Seems I'm not the only one with concerns.

http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/law-professor-criticises-new-fta-2508700



Skyryder

[Skyryder]

I was having a dig against just a couple of Helens old indiscretions, not against you....

Hang on... Youre Helen!!!!!!!!!! Skyrider is a nom de plume!!!!!!!!

Hope all is well over at the Hague? You're not coming back soon, I hope?:eek:

And I hate homework...:doh:

Don't matter 'where' I am my posts are 'here.' :shit: Helen is better looking than me:laugh: I just got longer hair and rubber lips for smooching.:jerry: I tell ya the chicks love this botox thing and they don't care what ya look like:jerry:

Skyryder

[MisterD]

THE SILENCE OF ACT IS A BAROMETER OF HOW FAR KEY IS MOVING TO THE RIGHT.

No, the lack of coverage of Act is a barometer of how far the MSM have become lefty lickspittles...

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/sir-roger-outlines-plan-save-nz-borrowing-45988

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0902/S00400.htm

[Oscar]

Their goods into our markets to protect our jobs??. Where you been. Ever heard of Rodgernomics.

Basicly we imported cheap goods from asia to the detriment of our own industry. Tha t cost jobs it did not creat them.

It's one of the reasons I'm so hostile to the Nats. THE SILENCE OF ACT IS A BAROMETER OF HOW FAR KEY IS MOVING TO THE RIGHT. Key has correctly assessed the publics hostility of Labour that they can do what they like with little opposition other than that coming from traditional quarters Labour:unions etc. For those that lived through Rodgenomics that is going be picnic compared to what is coming.


Skyryder.

OK, explain to me how this country would survive without free trade.
Would you like to go back to a world with tariffs? How can we expect the world to take our Beef, Lamb, Dairy and Wine if we had a protectionist economy?

You mentioned Rogernomics, but I wonder if you recall lfe in NZ before it? The limited and expensive crap (made in NZ of course) that was available for the consumer. Would you like to go back to NZ of the '70's and early '80's? We were a economic basket case...

As for your party political rant - the Nats have been in power a little over 100 days, I don't understand why you are blaming them for a free trade economy primarily created under Labour.

[Skyryder]

OK, explain to me how this country would survive without free trade.
Would you like to go back to a world with tariffs? How can we expect the world to take our Beef, Lamb, Dairy and Wine if we had a protectionist economy?

You mentioned Rogernomics, but I wonder if you recall lfe in NZ before it? The limited and expensive crap (made in NZ of course) that was available for the consumer. Would you like to go back to NZ of the '70's and early '80's? We were a economic basket case...

As for your party political rant - the Nats have been in power a little over 100 days, I don't understand why you are blaming them for a free trade economy primarily created under Labour.

There is no place for any society to practice protectionism as it's ‘only’ means of trade. That is ludicrous. So too is an economy based soley on free trade. It is about balance. Just where the fulcrum of this balance should be is another subject. Labour by an large is in much the same camp as the Nats on free trade but both governments have forgotten about the NZ industry that supplies the local market in goods Essentially Labour made the mistake of tampering with the social fabric believing that his would make up the shortfall in policy for local industry. I’m not going to dwell on this as it’s a long long topic suffice to say they paid the price even though their intent was for the good.

Yes I do well remember the life prior to Rodgernomics and could go into great detail on this however I will just say that NZ Rail, the Post Office and Ministry of Works not to mention the NZED provided a wide range of both apprenticeship and employment opportunities, along with planning in their respective fields and crime was down too and tagging was unheard of.

[Oscar]

There is no place for any society to practice protectionism as it's ‘only’ means of trade. That is ludicrous. So too is an economy based soley on free trade. It is about balance. Just where the fulcrum of this balance should be is another subject. Labour by an large is in much the same camp as the Nats on free trade but both governments have forgotten about the NZ industry that supplies the local market in goods Essentially Labour made the mistake of tampering with the social fabric believing that his would make up the shortfall in policy for local industry. I’m not going to dwell on this as it’s a long long topic suffice to say they paid the price even though their intent was for the good.

Yes I do well remember the life prior to Rodgernomics and could go into great detail on this however I will just say that NZ Rail, the Post Office and Ministry of Works not to mention the NZED provided a wide range of both apprenticeship and employment opportunities, along with planning in their respective fields and crime was down too and tagging was unheard of.

You are joking?
The employment and training opportunities offered were on the basis of ast over-employment at the tax payers expense. The four Depts you mention rivaled their communist counterparts in Eastern Europe for inefficiency, bad management, corruption and theft...

[Patrick]

Helen is better looking than me:laugh:

If the avitar is a picture of you, lay off the makeup, Helen... it aint working.....

[Skyryder]

You are joking?
The employment and training opportunities offered were on the basis of ast over-employment at the tax payers expense. The four Depts you mention rivaled their communist counterparts in Eastern Europe for inefficiency, bad management, corruption and theft...

And unemplyment and associated issues are not???

inefficiency, bad management, corruption and theft...Sounds like the Health Boards.

Skyryder

[Swoop]

inefficiency, bad management, corruption and the left...Sounds like...
The Liarbour manifesto?

[Skyryder]

The Liarbour manifesto?

They never had one since the advent of MMP. Nats are much the same. Most policy are generalasions based on ideology.

Skyryder

[Swoop]

They never had one since the advent of MMP. Nats are much the same. Most policy are generalasions based on ideology.

Skyryder

Inefficiency, bad management and corruption. That really sums them up nicely.
The Lunatic Fringe (sorry... "the green party") would also fall under those three labels.

[Mr Merde]

closer to 10,000 including territorials. also dont forget that the issued clothing is tri service and not just army issue.

From the front page of the NZ Defence Force Website


"The New Zealand Defence Force comprises 9,339 Regular Force, 2,181 Territorial Force, and 2,630 civilian staff members across the armed services of Navy, Army and Air Force, operating as Three Services - One Force."

[Oscar]

And unemplyment and associated issues are not???

inefficiency, bad management, corruption and theft...Sounds like the Health Boards.

Skyryder

Unemployment is certainly an issue, but going back to failed systems of the past will not help. Even if we could, the world has moved on.

In 1984 NZ was bankrupt and living beyond its means, something people who criticize Roger Douglas conveniently forget. To use one of your examples, NZR was loosing shitloads of taxpayers money every year with three times the staff that they were reduced to in the 90s. Rail was protected by regulation and yet the still managed to steal/damage or lose more than they could deliver...