How far can I go...(cornering)? [Archive]

Aaron

28th February 2005, 17:04

Being a complete newbie to motorcycles and sport bikes specifically I'm unsure about something.

How far over can you go before a low side is imminent? (Assuming perfect conditions, i.e. dry, bitumen surface, no gravel).

The attached image shows a PXT of my rear tire.

From left to right you'll see: Dust from gravel driveway, section of wear, a couple of centimeters where the tire still has that coating that accompanies new tires.

So, you can see I haven't been that far over, but I was wondering, how far is safe, can you go right over?

Will I hit the pegs before running out of wheel?

If the peg hits the road will it drag the bike down?

Cheers, Aaron.

SPORK

28th February 2005, 17:18

It depends... Speed, tightness of corner, bike, boots... Those strips on the side are called "chicken strips". Do a search to find out more.

Just go as far as you are comfortable

FROSTY

28th February 2005, 17:45

Dont sweat it dude its the last thing ya need to worry about.
But to answer your question
A Certain Motoracing" member of KB is trying to be the first member to regularly scrape his ELBOWS on the ground whilst riding.
Given your experience level You have a lot of other stuff to learn and a lot further to lean before ya worry about dangle angle.

Aaron

28th February 2005, 17:45

Thanks Cryhavoc, found the thread appropriately entitled 'Chicken Strips', and unfortunately the meaning behind them :weep:

I take solace in having only been riding for six weeks.

On my little 250 it would be getting close to the edge to have no chicken strips I think, on the 130/170 tires.

A query about why boots would be of concern, I presume this is due to the effect of what might occur if you clip the road surface. I wear John Bull combat boots, so they would perhaps grip and grab rather than slide like bike boots with the plastic armour might, correct?

Aaron

28th February 2005, 17:48

Dont sweat it dude its the last thing ya need to worry about.

Cheers Frosty :)

**R1**

28th February 2005, 17:56

Like the others have said "you have other things to worry bout b4 dragn ya pegs....but just so ya know, ya can drag the pegs on the gsx no probs....i did it on a work mates last year, he had dunlops on his bike, but i dont think the tyres matter that much it wasnt near the edge when the pegs hit the ground.

Two Smoker

28th February 2005, 19:04

Just take your time mate :niceone: focus on being smooth, and dont be scared of dropping it harder into a corner if the corner tightens up... Its all about counter steering...

I try not to scrape the pegs on the road as it can cause you to highside if you havnt experienced it before...

Just look at your tyres for a relation of how far you are leaning over... BUT beware of those IRC tyres they are not the best and are like plastic... I recommend getting decent rubber if you want to start pushing it hard...

Hey frosty... MR needs another 10cm before his elbow is scraping hehehe but hes getting fucking close... I need to start racing my 600.... my arms are longer than his :shifty: hehehe That or he needs some 16.5 inch rims...

Waylander

28th February 2005, 19:17

Zapf

28th February 2005, 19:23

Yea... I would like to echo what TS has pointed out... those IRC tires are not very good at keeping you sticking to the road.... perhaps a set of pirillie sport demons would sort you right.

Monsterbishi

28th February 2005, 19:24

You would be surprised how far most bikes will go before you scrape pegs. I can get mine pretty far over (or so it feels to me) and I have only scraped my passenger pegs cause I forgot to put them up.

My old CBR250R could damn near scrape the pegs going in a straight line, just as well they pivot up easily enough, I remember having a fun moment on my first 250 - a CB250RS, when I scraped on that - fixed pegs - not fun...

Methinks it's gonna be a very long time before I scrape up the pegs on the YZF, they're 100mm higher than the CBR's ones were.

Waylander

28th February 2005, 19:26

My old CBR250R could damn near scrape the pegs going in a straight line, just as well they pivot up easily enough, I remember having a fun moment on my first 250 - a CB250RS, when I scraped on that - fixed pegs - not fun...

Methinks it's gonna be a very long time before I scrape up the pegs on the YZF, they're 100mm higher than the CBR's ones were.
It's kinda fun to do that though I have to becarefull about the heels of my boots when turning like that. Still looking for some titanium plates to attach so I can throw up pretty white sparks:banana: :2thumbsup

Storm

28th February 2005, 19:32

Waylander

28th February 2005, 19:35

Dont worry too much about getting them down. Scraping pegs can be a bloody small distance from cartwheeling after (or heaven help, in front of ) your bike.
You might look like a hero for the pegs, but you'll defintly be uncool if you wreck your ride :done:
Heh.. I dont do it often but sometimes its fun to lean hard into a turn (specially round roundabouts) and show off a bit to the cagers. Little kids apreatiate it too.

(edit) just realized you may not have been talking to me but ohwell one more post down I guess:spudwhat:

Sensei

28th February 2005, 19:41

If you boot's start to look like these then back of about 20k's LOL

bugjuice

28th February 2005, 19:49

one good ting I sometimes do (so good for newbies, and the oldies) is chalk the tyre. Draw a line from left to right (or right to left, if you're left handed), then go for a ride (or do it while on your fav run of twisties), go as hard as you feel comfortable doing, then stop and have a look. See how far you've gone. What you have left is probably a good inch. So go for another run. Find that corner you know blind folded, then go just that smidge bit faster, and lean that bit harder. Keep doing that, and you'll get there. Remember to keep looking at the peak (furthest) point of the corner, then you'll start to get your ass off the bike - that's when the real fun starts, but one step at a time, ay? No one is Rossi in one run of the road..

Grumpy

28th February 2005, 20:11

Yea... I would like to echo what TS has pointed out... those IRC tires are not very good at keeping you sticking to the road.... perhaps a set of pirillie sport demons would sort you right.

I would like to ditto this. The tyres that they release on the smaller Suzuki bikes are generally shit. When I bought my GS500 a couple of years ago it came out with some really crap budget Bridgestones. I lasted about 1000 kms and then went and changed to some sport demons. Excellent tyres and well priced.

The standard tyres are perfectly acceptable for general riding but thats about it. Get some better rubber before you get too brave with the cornering.

Remember... the best rides are the ones that you return home from.

Darryboy

28th February 2005, 20:11

I've got one of those GSX250s and I'm not sure if i'd be too keen on getting the pegs down on the street. Around Puke though was great fun and I got to the edges of the tyres and scraped the right peg (which is less of a shock on the GSX than other bikes due to the rubber pegs).

I wouldn't be calling anyone a chicken after 6 weeks... maybe 8 - 9 though :shake:

Keep at it man, just be weary of oil and other shit on the road.

FROSTY

28th February 2005, 20:22

On my little 250 it would be getting close to the edge to have no chicken strips I think, on the 130/170 tires.

A query about why boots would be of concern, I presume this is due to the effect of what might occur if you clip the road surface. I wear John Bull combat boots, so they would perhaps grip and grab rather than slide like bike boots with the plastic armour might, correct?
Mate to answer two questions 1)im on an old XJ900 for a road bike--120/90/18 rear and a 100/90/18 front -Now Im far from the fastest riders and I regularly scrape my pegs /toes etc.
It isnt tyre width that matters. Its practice
RE the boots --The john bulls will slide the toes no worries -BUT
I'd suggest ya get better bike boots.Come pay me a visit and I'll show ya why Im still walking --My raceverts saved my lower leg/feet from some serious damage when i crashed.
Please tell me ya have gloves and bike jacket.
If ya don't PM me -Ill see what I can sort out for ya.

bkr

28th February 2005, 20:53

Hi, I learnt on a GSX250, upgrading the tyres was one of the first things we did to it. My hubby managed to scrape the centre stand while cornering, so that came off too - though I never scraped the stand or footpegs.
Enjoy your bike - great to learn on. :2thumbsup ride within your own limits.

Biff

28th February 2005, 21:19

The vast majority of riders never get anywhere near reaching the max grip capability of their tyres when cornering. So don't sweat about leaning over too far. But on the other hand don't worry about your chicken strips either. You're a newbie. Concentrate on being a smooth rider is your number 1 priority, along with keeping an eye out for idiot car drivers and road positioning. I should also point out that I've never heard of the brand of tyres your using. So listen to those who have experienced using them.

As for scraping your pegs. Don't worry about this either. The bike is designed to withstand your pegs hitting the deck. Hence the fact that they're spring loaded. Although it may give you a bit of a scare the first time it happens. But that's a long way off.

I've just dug up my old advanced rider training notes. Send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll flick you a copy. There's some great exercises in there that you'd probably benefit from. Shit - everyone here would benefit from some of it I guess as there's exercises for novices through to experts.

Aaron

28th February 2005, 21:21

Thanks for all the feedback. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to kill myself, it's a new bike and I want to know these sorts of things, 'before' it's too late if you know what I mean.

Just look at your tyres for a relation of how far you are leaning over... BUT beware of those IRC tyres they are not the best and are like plastic... I recommend getting decent rubber if you want to start pushing it hard...
Cheers for all the info on the IRC tyres, that's some interesting facts. I will have a look around for some flasher tyres. I can accept rider stupidity as a reason for binning, but hardware failure is just uncool.

Heh.. I dont do it often but sometimes its fun to lean hard into a turn (specially round roundabouts) and show off a bit to the cagers. Little kids apreatiate it too.
Yep, know that, there's a great roundabout on the way to work. With the slight camber and my newbie leaning I'm down to around 35 degrees. Nice sweeping right hander that swings back to the left on the exit :2thumbsup

aff-man

28th February 2005, 21:41

You don't need to lean over. Well you do but it's all about a whole heap of other factors. Going slow and wacking the bike over can have some interesting results that i don't think you would wish to explore. Especially on those tyres. I frequently got to the edge of the zxr250's tyres (and then rolled off them :brick: ) but then only when pushing for more corner speed. And i am nowhere near the edge on the CBR600 (thouigh getting there through experimentation :yeah: ) yet i can hold shitloads of corner speed. So it's also to go with the rider postion/ bike setup. Your bike probably has a low centre of gravity meaning getting it over is harder but you can hold mre corner speed in an upright position. :niceone:

Motu

28th February 2005, 22:01

Weight also comes into it,if you are heavy or carry extra load you will scrap pegs etc easier,if you are a lightweight getting over that far will be hard - it hasn't got a hell of a lot to do with speed...as someone mentioned you can do it easy on a tight corner or roundabout - now doesn't that just make you a shit hot rider? Forget the image,ride for yourself,keep it smooth and above all enjoy it...

Motoracer

1st March 2005, 08:36

Take your time dude. Before you want to start riding with some mean lean angles, get your self a good set of rubbers (Pirelli sports demons will do the job just fine). Basically you just take it, a step at a time and get comfy with the bike's handeling and you basically end up going lower and faster all the time.

When you start going pretty fast around corners with some pretty good lean angles, you might start to feel the tires slide a bit (usually the rear first if you are doing things right). These slides are quite exciting and not very dangerous in "perfect" conditions as longs as your riding is smooth and not "edgey". But as I said, wait till you get to the point where you are able to handle the greater lean angles and higher speed along with the minor slides. Just ride within your comfort zone. When you want to improve your riding and want to ride outside your limits, take it a step at a time!

Personally, I crank it over till both tires start to get a bit "slippy", then I just hold that speed till it's time crack the throtle open as I stand the bike up for the corner exit. As far as me scraping my elbow goes, I would love to do it but I think I really need race slicks with a steaper profile than my 180/55/17 cause even without going *that* low, the rear tire will already be on the edge... One day, I wana get my elbow down tho... (while riding and not crashing!)

P.S. I am not a great fan of scraping the pegs. It doesn't really dig in and pull the bike down and make you crash because they are desgined to just scrap nicely on top of the road. However, when you are scraping the pegs, it'll mean that you can't go any lower even if you have to. That'll mean that you'll run wide incase your speed is too high for a given bend. I just hang off so that the pegs don't hit the deck. This will mean that I can still go lower if I have to, to make it around a corner or to go around something/someone.

marty

1st March 2005, 11:08

unfortunately the TL scrapes the aftermarket fairing before the pegs....

scroter

1st March 2005, 11:26

unfortunately the TL scrapes the aftermarket fairing before the pegs....

does it what. the TL has reasonably high pegs anyway with no hero blobs. im not sure but someone must know, without the fairing i think the mufflers might go down to.

TonyB

1st March 2005, 11:49

Dont sweat it dude its the last thing ya need to worry about.
Ditto that. The only thing I can add is go for a few big rides on twisty roads that you know well (I'm talking to Nelson or something) and just ride. Don't think about your lean angle, just concentrate on riding a good line, chasing the vanishing point etc. Because you will be relaxed and in the groove, you should wind up leaning further than you do now. Practice/ seat time is everything on a bike. Get lots of k's in and you will gradually get smoother and faster. Don't worry about how far other guys lean or how fast they can go, you have to ride at a pace you feel confident with, otherwise sooner or later you may panic (everybody does it from time to time) which will lead you to do something your bike really doesn't want you to do, like tightening up on the bars, looking where you don't want to go, stuff like that...
If you want I've got a couple of books I can lend you on riding technique. Send me a PM

White trash

1st March 2005, 12:28

does it what. the TL has reasonably high pegs anyway with no hero blobs. im not sure but someone must know, without the fairing i think the mufflers might go down to.

Nope. Pegs first.

I used to lap Manfield on Loosebruces first one and scrape the pegs, right knee in the new hairpin in first gear.

Fuck I'm cool.

Biff

1st March 2005, 12:35

Fuck I'm cool.

So why have you got all the TV series of Fame on DVD then? :Pokey:
Oh - and take those freakin leg warmers off, please dude.

White trash

1st March 2005, 12:36

So why have you got all the TV series of Fame on DVD then? :Pokey:

....and The Dukes of Hazard

XP@

1st March 2005, 12:54

If you really must get your pegs down. then try finding a corner close to home and take it every day gradually increase your speed, but only when you feel comfortable. Usually a tight uphill works well. That's what I did and I'm missing some boot and footpeg :) now.

But also remember to practice usefull things like stopping.

ManDownUnder

1st March 2005, 13:26

Stevo

1st March 2005, 21:49

Getting to the edge of your tyres and having no chicken strips is done much more easily on a slow corner than a faster one. Plus you have more control, plus if you eff it up it is not gonna hurt much more than the pride and a bump and bruise.
Fast corners .............wellllllllll. Different story.
Besides which I have found that to get to the edge of the tyre on a faster corner ie, 75 or greater you have t be doing well above the legal speed limit. Eg I travel around a 75k corner on my way to work and generally speed up to 130 or so then slow back down again. To get to the edge I reckon I need to take an ugly line or do 145+ sort of thing. Tis easier to do 60-70 round a 35k corner.
One KBer calls chicken strips "wank factor" anyway, cos in his opinion it is just something to wank off about. Make your own mind up what the priority is. Many hours happy riding or getting to the limit of your tyres??????????? :spudwave:

Aaron

2nd March 2005, 09:44

Make your own mind up what the priority is. Many hours happy riding or getting to the limit of your tyres??????????? :spudwave:
The former every time :D

Feedback is much appreciated folks, cheers :niceone:

Pwalo

2nd March 2005, 10:04

It's really simple Aaron. When you lean over far enough you fall off. Then you know you've gone a wee bit far. Apparently that's how some of the GP boys do it, but you might find it a bit extreme on the road.

Scraping pegs is cool, and you can do it on almost any bike (ah my old XL175), but when you getting that far over on the road you're really not leaving a lot of reserve.

scumdog

2nd March 2005, 10:50

One KBer calls chicken strips "wank factor" anyway, cos in his opinion it is just something to wank off about. Make your own mind up what the priority is. Many hours happy riding or getting to the limit of your tyres??????????? :spudwave:

I second that, you are who you are and you ride how YOU want to and if that means 'chicken strips' an inch wide well so what?

Many a biker has come to grief trying to impress their mates, BFD!! :shake:

Just ride and enjoy it, try your cornering practice on low speed corners, less to worry about. :niceone: