Just a thought

[roadracingoldfart]

There have been a few threads on here about the Nationals being too this and too that Blah Blah Blah.
Heres a thought. ( yes i have had a couple )
If there was a North Island and South Island Champ series with all the finishes of each series eligible to race in a final alternating between a NI & SI venues every second year to become the NZ champ per class would that be a better option????.

I would not bother to do the Nats as i couldnt afford to do both NI & SI rounds but i would do an island champ series. There are enough tracks in both islands to hold a reasonable series in each island and that way we could see several class champions crossing around the country racing for thier Islands reputation etc.

Its just me wondering out loud but i wonder if its been reconsidered seriously for road racing.

I look foreward to your comments on this matter.

Cheers Paul.

[R6_kid]

This is what they do for the Rowing Champs. There is a separate meeting for the NI and SI champs, and then they alternate the National Champs each year between Karapiro (Cambridge) and Ruataniwha (Twizel).

It balances out the costs for people in different areas, and also leads to some schools/clubs pooling together to help push costs lower still (sharing trucks/trailers etc).

[Billy]

Yeah,That sounds like a bloody good idea,Have been thinking along similar lines and its probably worth firing off an email too Paul Stewart with your ideas as I know hes at his wits end wondering what he has too do to get more people attending

[steveyb]

Hey Paul.
This idea or something similar has been floated in the past but no one has actually ever run with it.
Other sports do something similar.
Other sports have a national championship at one venue, once a year.
Why do we need such an elaborate championship as we have now?
Cos that's the way we have always done it?
Imagine for example, racing for a week (or 4 days or whatever) at one circuit which changes each year? Everyone spending a week together, getting to know each other and having a great holiday away somewhere.
Then there are 3 trophies to chase too SI champ, NI champ and NZ champ.

If you are keen, think some of the details through and make a more complete submission.

I personally like this idea in many ways, and have done for a long time, so count me in to help, but can't do much as pretty busy. But things like writing, editing, etc.

Good on ya.

Steve

[Clivoris]

Very cool ideas.

[Maido]

The problem is that with sports like rowing, rugby, netball etc the field or course the use is fairly consistant (ie a rugby pitch is a std size) where as no two race tracks are the same.
In my opinion, I believe a national champion should be crowned by being able to win races in a series that encompasses all the skills required for all the tracks (fast corners, slow corners, smooth, bumpy, clockwise, anti clockwise, elevation, bad hotdogs etc).
We have got (potentially) 7 national level race tracks within a country of about 1600kms, alot of countries couldn't say that!
Our national series is made up of only about 250 minutes (very rough estimate based on 2x 25 minute races) of pure racing per class as it is. That is bugger all!
I don't personally believe that you would have more spectators coming to watch a Nth or Sth Island cup than you would a full national meeting.

My 2c.

[neil_cb125t]

hmmmm, i like it. in fact i suggest that the 2 series be run in "series."

ie Start with SI champs, after the however many meets/rounds a trophy is given out, then move to the NI tracks and the Ni champs starts, same thing at the end there is a NI champ crowned.

now here comes the fun part - if you keep in only a week from the 2nd one from starting and the other finishing. Then you combine total points of anyone doing both and you get a National champ.

this will get more people entering national level events, it wil stop the whole "i cant afford to go down south ( or up north for the mainlanders ) this year" Even if they only do there islands rounds it will mean people can stll achieve an overall result and make it actually worth entering 4 rounds.

I also am trying to turn the Taupo endurance race held last year into a series...............endurance series

[Billy]

The problem is that with sports like rowing, rugby, netball etc the field or course the use is fairly consistant (ie a rugby pitch is a std size) where as no two race tracks are the same.
In my opinion, I believe a national champion should be crowned by being able to win races in a series that encompasses all the skills required for all the tracks (fast corners, slow corners, smooth, bumpy, clockwise, anti clockwise, elevation, bad hotdogs etc).
We have got (potentially) 7 national level race tracks within a country of about 1600kms, alot of countries couldn't say that!
Our national series is made up of only about 250 minutes (very rough estimate based on 2x 25 minute races) of pure racing per class as it is. That is bugger all!
I don't personally believe that you would have more spectators coming to watch a Nth or Sth Island cup than you would a full national meeting.

My 2c.
All very good points,However the current format appears to be failing and I think Pauls suggestion holds merit.I mean the current format has been tried for 40 odd yrs and maybe its time to try something different.I agree with you regarding the spectators as well and I think thats why we need change and I think the emphasis needs to be put on making the sport successful as a competitor sport first and then concentrate on attracting the spectators.Ive only attended 1 round this year(Manfeild) and saw some of the best racing Ive seen for a number of years,But I am enthusiast and too Joe Bloggs it was 3 or 4 guys at the front and it becomes boring.Look at the popular motorsport events in NZ like V8 touring cars,The Toyota racing series and Stockcar racing,The feilds are huge and nobody knows whos gonna win till the chequered flag falls and its 1 big race from 1st to 20th with passing and dicing going everywhere through the feild.Thats what Joe Bloggs wants for his money and we are not delivering.Its time to think outside the square and Pauls idea looks like a step in the right direction too me

[sidecar bob]

What would happen if some notherners wanted to go south? would that not be allowed, or would they just not feature in the results?
We love to do Ruapuna & Levels & go south to enjoy different tracks to what we usually ride on.
But then we race for fun, which may be a different agenda to most others.

[sidecar bob]

I don't personally believe that you would have more spectators coming to watch a Nth or Sth Island cup than you would a full national meeting.


You would get less spectators, because there would be less competitors & less entertainment.
Regardless of what we do for a job during the week, we are entertainers on the weekend, the sooner we realise that racing comes second to entertaining the sooner the crowds will come back.

[roadracingoldfart]

Yeah,That sounds like a bloody good idea,Have been thinking along similar lines and its probably worth firing off an email too Paul Stewart with your ideas as I know hes at his wits end wondering what he has too do to get more people attending

Thanks Billy , so have i been thinking about whats happening.
I will contact Paul and sound him out.

Paul.

[roadracingoldfart]

Hey Paul.
This idea or something similar has been floated in the past but no one has actually ever run with it.
Other sports do something similar.
Other sports have a national championship at one venue, once a year.
Why do we need such an elaborate championship as we have now?
Cos that's the way we have always done it?
Imagine for example, racing for a week (or 4 days or whatever) at one circuit which changes each year? Everyone spending a week together, getting to know each other and having a great holiday away somewhere.
Then there are 3 trophies to chase too SI champ, NI champ and NZ champ.

If you are keen, think some of the details through and make a more complete submission.

I personally like this idea in many ways, and have done for a long time, so count me in to help, but can't do much as pretty busy. But things like writing, editing, etc.

Good on ya.

Steve


Yer Steve and thanks for your support of the idea. Im not saying im the man to take it to MNZ but i believe that is the domain of MNZ as the governing body for our sport. I will take the idea to them but complex rules will have to be adhered to im sure so it will have to be arranged within those rule paramaters.
The champ count can be varied and broad if its planned correctly as there can be many titles taken by one person each year if they are fast enough and comitted enough to contest all the rounds (id be rooted if i did lol)
The chance to become NI , SI , and NZ title holder is not out of the question for the dedicated , well sponsored racer.
One of my pet hates is the NZ way of thinking when it comes down to routine. I have been told many times "but we always do it like that " well that does not mean its the right way to do it , makes you think aye .

[roadracingoldfart]

What would happen if some notherners wanted to go south? would that not be allowed, or would they just not feature in the results?
We love to do Ruapuna & Levels & go south to enjoy different tracks to what we usually ride on.
But then we race for fun, which may be a different agenda to most others.
If its planned well it can be possible to do all the rounds in each island.
I personally believe we are not making it fun either so lets get back to that focus. Make it commercial and the masses cant afford to do it. Make it fun for the whole family and the masses may return. You can still turn a profit while having fun.



You would get less spectators, because there would be less competitors & less entertainment.
Regardless of what we do for a job during the week, we are entertainers on the weekend, the sooner we realise that racing comes second to entertaining the sooner the crowds will come back.

I dissagree with less spectators bit .... club series events are twice or more the size of the nationals and done for a pittance of the cost. Make the offset work for the sport. A NI series will have the same level of entrants as say the VMCC do in the winter , imagine if it was held in the summer. Even if it only got half the entrants , thats still twice the grid size of the present national series .

[Wingnut]

Could you not just run the Nats as it is but have a North and South Island Championship being run at the same event. A Chamionship within a championship? Lesser entry fee for North/South Island Champs but the actual racing is done in conjunction with the Nationals - make sense?

[Ivan]

Could you not just run the Nats as it is but have a North and South Island Championship being run at the same event. A Chamionship within a championship? Lesser entry fee for North/South Island Champs but the actual racing is done in conjunction with the Nationals - make sense?

thats a really good idea.
Keep the current format for the keen but also have the North Island Champs and South Island champs.

As Nationals are Nationals and if you want to be Champ you have to commit I mean there are alot of guys out there commiting at the momment and full credit to them.

But also run a North Island series and South Island seires for the people waniting to compete in a bigger championship.

If you understand what im saying.

Plus one question irrelevent why dont Taupo race way get used for Nationals

[Wingnut]

thats a really good idea.
Keep the current format for the keen but also have the North Island Champs and South Island champs.

As Nationals are Nationals and if you want to be Champ you have to commit I mean there are alot of guys out there commiting at the momment and full credit to them.

But also run a North Island series and South Island seires for the people waniting to compete in a bigger championship.

If you understand what im saying.

Plus one question irrelevent why dont Taupo race way get used for Nationals


Yea mate - thats it! It would no doubt see an increase in competitors (myself inc.) and inturn it would then be more appealing to the spectators, sponsers, tv coverage etc etc. Increased exposure - increased income for the clubs - gotta be a step in the right direction. Or am I over simplifying things here???

[roadracingoldfart]

Yea mate - thats it! It would no doubt see an increase in competitors (myself inc.) and inturn it would then be more appealing to the spectators, sponsers, tv coverage etc etc. Increased exposure - increased income for the clubs - gotta be a step in the right direction. Or am I over simplifying things here???


Nah mate , simple is good. :niceone:

[scracha]

is fairly consistant (ie a rugby pitch is a std size) where as no two race tracks are the same.
Every football (soccer) pitch I've played on has been unique?



We have got (potentially) 7 national level race tracks within a country of about 1600kms, alot of countries couldn't say that!

A lot of countries could. We have a good number per capita tho!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_auto_racing_tracks



spectators coming to watch a Nth or Sth Island cup than you would a full national meeting.

You'd certainly get more competitors though. Hell, even this disillusioned Scotsman would be interested. More competitors = more spectators

[scracha]

Plus one question irrelevent why dont Taupo race way get used for Nationals
AFAIK PMCC were asked but the track hire costs were stupidly expensive compared to Puke and Manfield.

[roadracingoldfart]

Just a selfish bump !!!!


Does this subject need more input or not ???? :rolleyes:


Or .........


Is it a no brainer like our National Series is ??? and nobody will miss it when its gone ?? :argue:

[CHET]

SOUNDS LIKE A BLOODY GOOD IDEA TO ME .:2guns:

[Clivoris]

Take it to MNZ mate.

[Racin Jason]

thats a really good idea.
Keep the current format for the keen but also have the North Island Champs and South Island champs.

As Nationals are Nationals and if you want to be Champ you have to commit I mean there are alot of guys out there commiting at the momment and full credit to them.

But also run a North Island series and South Island seires for the people waniting to compete in a bigger championship.

If you understand what im saying.

Plus one question irrelevent why dont Taupo race way get used for Nationals

Yip, a vote from me. I think that would be great. We used to NI and SI cups but at club level. You'd have more to race for at a national level, and without taking anything away from the current national series.

And from what i understand running at Taupo ment that either VMCC or AMCC would have had to run two meetings which none of them could manage.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

sounds algood! really, there is nothing to loose!

[Benk]

You'd certainly get more competitors though. Hell, even this disillusioned Scotsman would be interested. More competitors = more spectators

+1 Id be keen on competing in all rounds of a north Island championship for sure.

[wharfy]

You would get less spectators, because there would be less competitors & less entertainment.
Regardless of what we do for a job during the week, we are entertainers on the weekend, the sooner we realise that racing comes second to entertaining the sooner the crowds will come back.

There is something to this, Wanganui and Pearoa draw big crowds they have become EVENTS not just a race. A bit like the rugby sevens half the people that go to the sevens don't care about the quality of the rugby or even who wins (unless its NZ v AUS). Thousands of people who NEVER go to the races go to the Wellington Cup and couldn't tell a racehorse from a cow but have a ball.

So how do we turn the Manfield round of the Nationals into a "Wellington Cup" type event ? Starting of modestly of course, it is no good spending shit loads on marketing and have the crowd turn up and have a crap day. We need a modest crowd to turn up and have a brilliant day (and not JUST a hangover from drinking in the Sun).

We need to start with Motorcyclists - It should be an EVENT so cool that bikers should be ashamed to say they were not there. I only got to see the last three races this year but the F1 race was so cool it was worth it. If there is any Video footage (megabytes in this digital age ?) of that race it should be made available to everyone who is even the slightest bit interested. The crowd weren't on the edge of their seat they were on their feet. I don't know how to do this, I'm in IT not marketing, but I know that you can sell ANYTHING old shite if marketing is done aggressively (which is why we have Windows instead of OS/2 ).