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candor
28th February 2009, 11:54
Beware - this is not uncommon. My mother was one of 3 pensioners lately killed by methadone patients who were regularly pulled up for drug driving, but who the law could not charge or stop. Because they may not drug test unhospitalised drivers for the purpose of related charges without
1) permission from commander
2) the culprits consent - and they are not that dumb to self incriminate.

This is a daytime risk to be very aware of. Drug drivers tend to momentary lapses, causing our high centreline crossing rate, so aren't so obvious as the weaving drink driver.

IMO the launch of an internal investigation of the Hawera constable is scape-goating which the Police Assn should rail against. The Govt and Annette King have long fudged on this issue - leaving us as the only first world country without legislation to empower police.


Drug addict freed to drive fatal crash car
By GLENN McLEAN glenn.mclean@tnl.co.nz - Taranaki Daily News | Saturday, 28 February 2009

Crash scene: Emergency workers survey the damage of the crash that killed pensioner Norman Luscombe last year.

Police have launched an internal investigation after a Hawera constable bailed a drug-affected man who later killed a pensioner in a head-on smash.

Drug addict Peter Richard Drinnan was given bail even though he told a policeman he was under the influence of drugs.

Drinnan, 39, is due to be sentenced in the High Court at New Plymouth on Tuesday for the manslaughter of 84-year-old Norman Philip Luscombe.

Mr Luscombe died in February, 2008, several days after his car was struck by Drinnan, who had crossed the centre line between Normanby and Eltham in his panic to get to New Plymouth for his daily dose of methadone.

Police had been looking for Drinnan earlier on the day of the accident following a burglary complaint. They took his car keys out of the ignition after finding his empty car outside a Hawera property. Hours later they found him trying to hotwire his car and arrested him.

Eight minutes after the arrest he was video interviewed by Constable Geoffrey Hale who asked Drinnan if he was "going to be awake" for an interview. According to a transcript of the interview, Mr Hale told Drinnan: "We need to be able to hear you."

During the interview Drinnan tells the constable that he needs to get to New Plymouth by 5pm to get his dose of methadone because he had been turned away from a chemist in Hawera earlier that day.

Security camera footage shows Drinnan inside the pharmacy knocking over items on display.

An extract from Mr Hale's job sheet, obtained by the Taranaki Daily News, showed Drinnan answered yes when Mr Hale asked if he was under the influence of drugs.

The job sheet then stated Drinnan was bailed at 3.30pm.

Less than an hour later Drinnan was involved in a minor car crash on the Normanby overbridge, but he continued to drive on.

Several kilometres later, and after further reports of erratic driving, he crossed the centre line and slammed into Mr Luscombe's car.

Blood tests taken from Drinnan found he was under the influence of cannabis, methadone and the prescription drug Lorazepam, which he had stolen from his brother.

The major side-effect associated with the prescription drug Lorazepam is drowsiness, with users told not to drive after taking the medication.

Drinnan's lawyer, Julian Hannam, of New Plymouth, said it was obvious looking at the police video interview that his client was heavily under the influence of drugs.

"He was mumbling and he was aggressive. He was clearly on something," he said.

"There is a certain amount of consternation now when you look back on what occurred that day. If a guy was p....d and they knew he had access to a car, would they let him go?"

The case has similarities to the actions of police in 2005 when they failed to stop drunk driver Raymond Hansen driving after his car was found following a high-speed chase. Hansen managed to elude police, who were watching his car, and drive off, later killing three people on the Normanby overbridge.

An investigation in 2006 found the errors of judgment displayed by Hawera police officers did not amount to misconduct or neglect of duty.

"The difference to Hansen is that they had him (Drinnan)," Mr Hannam said. "They had this guy and let him go. So actually, this is worse. The amount of bad driving leading up to this accident, he is very lucky he didn't kill more people."

Mr Hannam plans to make a submission to the High Court on Tuesday questioning police actions leading up to Drinnan's release.

"If the constable had detained the prisoner overnight he would not have been affected by any drugs at the time he drove his motor vehicle," the submission states.

Inspector Frank Grant, of Hawera, confirmed yesterday that Drinnan had been detained and released by police on the day he killed Mr Luscombe.

Mr Grant then directed any further questions to Central District communications manager Kim Perks. "There is an internal investigation ongoing into the matter and it would be inappropriate for us to comment until that investigation is complete," she said.

A Luscombe family spokeswoman said they did not wish to comment until after sentencing. She said the family was aware of the circumstances leading up to Mr Luscombe's death and that Drinnan was in police custody shortly before the crash.

scumdog
28th February 2009, 12:07
Mr Hannam plans to make a submission to the High Court on Tuesday questioning police actions leading up to Drinnan's release.

"If the constable had detained the prisoner overnight he would not have been affected by any drugs at the time he drove his motor vehicle," the submission states.
.

Mwahahaha, he's full of shit - bail is pretty much automatic these days and he knows it....

'Detained overnight' - just watch the civil liberty twats make a meal over that if it had happened.

candor
28th February 2009, 13:23
OK well if they can't seperate the killers from society and must toss them back out, why not seperate their keys or cars from them. Thats what his not too bright lawyer should ask. He went in for burglary initially - surely having cars ups the odds of this being retried, its a tool of trade unless you just pick on the neighbours. In criminal justice jargon cars could be seen as "criminogenic". In the Central Region (assuming thats Hawera) 47% of their dead drivers under drug influence ie 53/112 the last 4 years. And the Police ADAM study shows a majority of arrestees drunk or drugged. They should have taken his keys, issued a skateboard. If cops in the UK issue drunk chicks in heels with jandals to avoid injury, why not?

rastuscat
28th February 2009, 22:06
They tried to toughen the laws on drugs but Nandor and Comrade Sue objected, and Auntie Helen cowtowed to the Greens to stay in power herself.

candor
28th February 2009, 23:33
They tried but Nandor and Comrade Sue objected.....

Thought as much. So the antismackers think road killing is ok. Green extremes seem a violent bunch of hippys sans conscience. Seems tree hugging was also responsible for many of the bushfire deaths - interfering with burn offs.

CookMySock
1st March 2009, 08:16
'Detained overnight' - just watch the civil liberty twats make a meal over that if it had happened.So? Just do it anyway.. standard operating procedure innit? If the commander has a problem with that, tell him to release said bad person himself.

I'm not against the fuzz pulling the wool over peoples eyes when public SAFETY is compromised. Go for it - try any trick in, or not in the book to get what you need. But there are lots of times (wheelie, burnout) where a portion of the public is up in arms about it but nothing DANGEROUS has happened. This affects few or none.

Keep up the good work.

Steve

scumdog
1st March 2009, 09:08
So? Just do it anyway.. standard operating procedure innit? If the commander has a problem with that, tell him to release said bad person himself.

I'm not against the fuzz pulling the wool over peoples eyes when public SAFETY is compromised. Go for it - try any trick in, or not in the book to get what you need. But there are lots of times (wheelie, burnout) where a portion of the public is up in arms about it but nothing DANGEROUS has happened. This affects few or none.

Keep up the good work.

Steve

Soooo....lemme see, you give a big tick for cops to operate outside the law whenever the 'feel' it is necessary??

Now THERE'S a refreshing change for KB.:banana:

Renegade
1st March 2009, 18:04
how is this different than a cop taking the keys off a drunk driver and then that drunk driver goes home, gets a spare set of keys and then drives his car and kills someone? i suppose its the police's fault for that to?

CookMySock
1st March 2009, 19:29
Soooo....lemme see, you give a big tick for cops to operate outside the law whenever the 'feel' it is necessary??No, I give a big tick for cops pulling people off the road when said people are well into the FUCKING DANGEROUS category, as was referred to in this thread, regardless of whether the procedure they use will stand up to public or legal scrutiny. Just do it, but don't cost yourself your job.

There are other times when perfectly innocent people get cornered and threatened by the legal system, and yes sometimes its impossible for you to tell the difference.

I couldn't do your job. Respect.

Steve

pritch
1st March 2009, 19:43
Mwahahaha, he's full of shit -

In the interests of fairness - ooops I forgot it was KB there for a minute...
Mr Hannam impressed someone I know when Hannam defended his son once.

The boy had got himself in a spot of bother and although only acting as Duty Solicitor Hannam put up quite a sustained argument with the judge. In the end the judge wasn't swayed by Julian's eloquence but my friend was impressed by his performance anyway.

Mr Hannam is well into the "vertically challenged" category, almost upstaged by his suits.

Hope he doesn't read KB :whistle:

peasea
1st March 2009, 19:50
No, I give a big tick for cops pulling people off the road when said people are well into the FUCKING DANGEROUS category, as was referred to in this thread, regardless of whether the procedure they use will stand up to public or legal scrutiny. Just do it, but don't cost yourself your job.

There are other times when perfectly innocent people get cornered and threatened by the legal system, and yes sometimes its impossible for you to tell the difference.

I couldn't do your job. Respect.

Steve

Couldn't? Wouldn't?

peasea
1st March 2009, 19:52
how is this different than a cop taking the keys off a drunk driver and then that drunk driver goes home, gets a spare set of keys and then drives his car and kills someone? i suppose its the police's fault for that to?

Yup. shoulda shot him/her.

98tls
1st March 2009, 19:57
My old lady has worked at the 111 center for years,next time we speak i will tell er she needs to change her part of the conversation if they ask for the police,"sir/madam you dont need the police there the ones at fault" caller "no my cars been stolen i need the police" mum "doesnt matter sir a recent survey on KB showed that the police are to blame for everything".

firefighter
1st March 2009, 20:00
Thought as much. So the antismackers think road killing is ok. Green extremes seem a violent bunch of hippys sans conscience. Seems tree hugging was also responsible for many of the bushfire deaths - interfering with burn offs.

Yep, prefuckencisely, it's that big picture thingy people keep on forgetting about.....

Something like a $5000(0?) fine the owners of the house recieved for clearing the trees from around their house......one of the only houses left standing now....

Gotta love those fucken hippys.....

firefighter
1st March 2009, 20:02
mum "doesnt matter sir a recent survey on KB showed that the police are to blame for everything".

You mean nation wide finger point.....(the person who actually does the crime is not at fault!)

peasea
1st March 2009, 20:11
My old lady has worked at the 111 center for years,next time we speak i will tell er she needs to change her part of the conversation if they ask for the police,"sir/madam you dont need the police there the ones at fault" caller "no my cars been stolen i need the police" mum "doesnt matter sir a recent survey on KB showed that the police are to blame for everything".

Just start with "the police are to blame for everything" and save precious time.

scumdog
1st March 2009, 20:34
Just start with "the police are to blame for everything" and save precious time.


Ah yes, the 21st century credo - "It's not my fault" - no wonder NZ is getting ahead so well....r

FROSTY
1st March 2009, 20:40
RIP my good freind common sense
In the 70's he was still alive and well and a copper could and would take away ya keys and make ya walk home

scumdog
1st March 2009, 20:43
RIP my good freind common sense
In the 70's he was still alive and well and a copper could and would take away ya keys and make ya walk home

Nowadays somebody that had been binned for DIU would do a PCA 'cos he wasn't just made to walk home..

peasea
1st March 2009, 20:45
Ah yes, the 21st century credo - "It's not my fault" - no wonder NZ is getting ahead so well....r


But seriously; it ISN'T my fault. I keep telling the judges that.....

As for NZ, I think it's doing ok, what's a few billion? I'm doing ok and we're off to Waipara to see Jimmy Barnes and The Feelers next w/e, so if there's a recession could you please email me some information about it? We burnt several gallons of fossil fuel today and it felt great.

It'll be interesting to see if the tickets I'm likely to get in the V8 on the journey south could be written off against the pressures of the so-called recession. ("I was reserving kinetic energy coming off that hill, your honour") No hang on; I'm applying for the police force, I don't speed......

I doubt the sunrise will be affected by any recession, or any climate change b/s for that matter.

peasea
1st March 2009, 20:50
RIP my good freind common sense
In the 70's he was still alive and well and a copper could and would take away ya keys and make ya walk home

If you remember anything from the 70's you weren't really there. Mate, the acid was great, purple barrels, grey barrels etc, the pot was intense, Led Zep, Rare Earth and Dark Side of the Moon.......

My parents worried....

Now it's my turn.

Mully
1st March 2009, 20:51
Nowadays somebody that had been binned for CIU would do a PCA 'cos he wasn't just made to walk home..

That reminds me of the guy who was in the Sunday News who bitched because his car was impounded at a checkpoint for unpaid fines. He was upset because he had to walk home through the bad part of the neighbourhood.

Of course, the Sunday News was aghast because of this - no mention of the fact that this clown had racked up a whole lot of fines which he hadn't paid.

Of course, it wasn't his fault. He was a victim of.... ummm.... something.

FROSTY
2nd March 2009, 07:10
If you remember anything from the 70's you weren't really there. Mate, the acid was great, purple barrels, grey barrels etc, the pot was intense, Led Zep, Rare Earth and Dark Side of the Moon.......

My parents worried....

Now it's my turn.
Nahh Mate I remember --me though I was trying to figure out how guys like Cros could go so fast. Bein impoverished and wanting to race bikes "saved " me from all that stuff

Skyryder
2nd March 2009, 12:09
That reminds me of the guy who was in the Sunday News who bitched because his car was impounded at a checkpoint for unpaid fines. He was upset because he had to walk home through the bad part of the neighbourhood.

Of course, the Sunday News was aghast because of this - no mention of the fact that this clown had racked up a whole lot of fines which he hadn't paid.

Of course, it wasn't his fault. He was a victim of.... ummm.... something.

There is simply no excuse for leaving any motorist or biker stranded on the side of road unless there are safety issues involved with their driving. Unpaid fines that's a no brainer. There are plenty of repo agents about.

Skyryder

Patrick
2nd March 2009, 12:33
Drinnan's lawyer, Julian Hannam, of New Plymouth, said it was obvious looking at the police video interview that his client was heavily under the influence of drugs.

Julian also fails to note that people come down from a Methadone dose very quickly...

"He was mumbling and he was aggressive. He was clearly on something," he said.

"There is a certain amount of consternation now when you look back on what occurred that day. If a guy was p....d and they knew he had access to a car, would they let him go?"

No. But if he sobered up (because you come down from a Methadone hit quite quickly), and they did not know he had access to a car, then.....? Let me guess... you have to let him go, perhaps?

Mr Hannam plans to make a submission to the High Court on Tuesday questioning police actions leading up to Drinnan's release.

Cool. I hope it leads to the removal of the right to bail.

[QUOTE=DangerousBastard;1959414]No, I give a big tick for cops pulling people off the road when said people are well into the FUCKING DANGEROUS category, as was referred to in this thread, regardless of whether the procedure they use will stand up to public or legal scrutiny. Just do it, but don't cost yourself your job.



Ummm... last time I looked, locking people up unlawfully never has stood up to public or legal scrutiny. Just doing it will cost a job.

Indoo
2nd March 2009, 15:34
Yep that lawyers a complete retard with no knowledge of the bail laws.

His argument basically is that if your drunk or on drugs and have a car or access to one that you should not get bail until you are completely and utterly sober. Which would be great, if he wouldnt be the first to sue the Police for unlawfully detaining his client under the BOR act for unlawful detention.

candor
2nd March 2009, 19:53
[QUOTE=candor;1957380]But if he sobered up (because you come down from a Methadone hit quite quickly), and they did not know he had access to a car, then.....? Let me guess... you have to let him go, perhaps?[/I][/B]

Mr Hannam plans to make a submission to the High Court on Tuesday questioning police actions leading up to Drinnan's release.

Cool. I hope it leads to the removal of the right to bail.



Lawyers can mumble and be aggressive too!

Aaaaah some things to consider there - like if sobre on leaving stn where'd he get all the dope and drop it on his way to get dosed? A group could turn out at sentencing tomorrow to hackle the lawyer for some consistency "Yah you didn't want bail then but you want it set loose now M -****** "
I feel this Drinnan is going down big time, due to who the victim was and other stuff. No one thirds release on manslaughter if time not house detention is a prospect here.

Patrick
3rd March 2009, 15:44
Yep that lawyers a complete retard with no knowledge of the bail laws.

His argument basically is that if your drunk or on drugs and have a car or access to one that you should not get bail until you are completely and utterly sober. Which would be great, if he wouldnt be the first to sue the Police for unlawfully detaining his client under the BOR act for unlawful detention.

He is actually not too shabby at all. Quite approachable. Just shifting the blame from his client, is all...

Then again, could it be a media beat up? They are good at that.....


[QUOTE=Patrick;1960531]

Lawyers can mumble and be aggressive too!

Aaaaah some things to consider there - like if sobre on leaving stn where'd he get all the dope and drop it on his way to get dosed? A group could turn out at sentencing tomorrow to hackle the lawyer for some consistency "Yah you didn't want bail then but you want it set loose now M -****** "
I feel this Drinnan is going down big time, due to who the victim was and other stuff. No one thirds release on manslaughter if time not house detention is a prospect here.

My understanding was he drove some time after being released, and crashed and killed the old fella.... "he has his sources," shall we say....

Not meaning to stick up for the cop, (well... maybe... just a little...???)

There is only one person at fault here, surely????????????????????????????? I am certain the cop wasn't driving while stewed up on a cocktail of various drugs........