Motorcycle counter-sitting

[Grizzo]

Thought this video might be of use!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAar19KQK18

[slofox]

Might try that...

[Badger8]

Interesting... I kinda do that intuitively with my upper body to keep it balanced, and push the bike under me. Might try scooting my butt over too and see if it makes a difference :)

[Taz]

I think it's rude to sit on the counter.

[piston broke]

as useful as tits on a bull.
surely that is a natural thing to do..
at least it was for me

[hammerman]

This is a classic.... how to turn your bike on..... and .... off. Wow... I am so glad I watched that ...

cejEJuqINiI

[vagrant]

All helpful stuff for both learners and experienced riders alike.
As Piston said, for some people it is a natural thing to do, but if you were answering a question on it, often the things we do "naturally" are not explained fully, as the assumption is made that thats just what you do.

[MarkH]

This is a classic.... how to turn your bike on..... and .... off. Wow... I am so glad I watched that ...

LOL - when I bought my scooter the seller showed me how to start it (side stand has to be up, have to have key on, have to apply either brake - then press starter button), if he hadn't then I would have needed a video on youtube - otherwise I would have ridden off without knowing how to start it . . . oh, wait . . .

[Spuds1234]

I can turn tighter circles than that guy in the video. All he needs to do is lean out from the bike more. He did explain it well though.

[zzzbang]

if you needed to watch that video on how to start your bike... please stay off the road lol.

[quickbuck]

I can turn tighter circles than that guy in the video. All he needs to do is lean out from the bike more. He did explain it well though.

Actually, all you need to do is look through the turn further....
Look all the way over your shoulder and you can turn on full lock. Well, on most bikes. Some get the clip-on's hitting the tank first.

[Spuds1234]

Look all the way over your shoulder and you can turn on full lock. Well, on most bikes. Some get the clip-on's hitting the tank first.

Na if you have a bike like that, your thumbs hit the tank first.

[Squid69]

werid.
i dont see the point? i could turn slower than that without having to move my fat ass across the bike.

[cowboyz]

a whole lot of information that gives some newbie something else to think about. I going to go do some U turns and see if I "counter sit" without knowing it.

[Spuds1234]

werid.
i dont see the point? i could turn slower than that without having to move my fat ass across the bike.

Its not about turning slowly, its about turning with a very tight radius.

With confidence and practice, you will never have to do a 3 point turn again.

[quickbuck]

Its not about turning slowly, its about turning with a very tight radius.

With confidence and practice, you will never have to do a 3 point turn again.

Exactly.
The thing is you can actually do this without having to move your butt though......
I think cowboyz may have found this out... or he is still practicing.

I naturally twist my body around to look over my shoulder, but there is no real need to throw the bike deeper into the turn than I already do by "counter sitting".

[cowboyz]

i was going to respond but spent all day yesterday going round in circles. I dont "counter-sit" I do move my weight to the outside of the turn.
TBH- Another technical term to confuse newbies - thats it.

[quickbuck]

TBH- Another technical term to confuse newbies - thats it.

Totally agree.

[Maki]

I tried countersitting today and it actually works, you can turn on a dime. Just remember to stick to the basics and look where you want to go.

[quickbuck]

........ and look where you want to go.

The most important part for sure.

In the video the demonstrator wasn't even turning his head enough for a tight turn, so I guess the effectiveness of the demonstration was lost.

[cowboyz]

Exactly.
The thing is you can actually do this without having to move your butt though......
I think cowboyz may have found this out... or he is still practicing.

I naturally twist my body around to look over my shoulder, but there is no real need to throw the bike deeper into the turn than I already do by "counter sitting".

I went out and practiced it and thought, what a crock of shit. Pointless waste of time.

They yesterday I was in town on a very narrow street and wanted to do a Uturn and flicked the bike around. As I was striaghtening up and accelerating down the street I noticed that I WAS COUNTERSITTING!!!!!!!

I did note that I did not intentionally move my arse off the seat but rather pushed the bike out from under me so my arse was off (well half off) the seat.

Might be something to it.

Might just be something else to confuse newbies.....

[Spuds1234]

I did note that I did not intentionally move my arse off the seat but rather pushed the bike out from under me so my arse was off (well half off) the seat.

Might be something to it.

Might just be something else to confuse newbies.....

Thats exactly how its done. You push the bike out with your arms and when you push far enough you have to move your bum.

[sharon333]

Sounds easy enough. I will have to practice that technique.

[CookMySock]

Another little trick to add to this, is managing lean angle using the throttle. This is much easier on a little single or vtwin bike, rather than a peaky on-or-off inline four.

So when you are tipped into the U turn and holding a constant radius(ish) turn, the bike might tip into the turn a little too far and feel like it will topple inwards - you have three options at this point ;

a. dab your inside foot on the ground for some support, and to ease the brain-loading

b. turn the bars towards the corner a little, as to stand the bike up

c. add a tiny bit of throttle to add to the bikes' <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centripetal_force#Simple_example:_uniform_circular _motion">centrifugal</a> force(sic).


Method (a) is the traditional one, but it isn't a good look, its not good practice, or the road forward for the sport bikers' career.

Method (b) works as well, but its not productive, as it widens the turn, which is the opposite of what we need to achieve.

Method (c) is the hardest to learn, but it keeps the turn tight, teaches throttle-control, and forces the rider to trust the bike.


Steve

[MarkH]

Another little trick to add to this, is managing lean angle using the throttle.

That was pretty well explained :niceone:

[BMWST?]

Another little trick to add to this, is managing lean angle using the throttle.

Steve

And its the only way to do it if you are turning so sharply that you are already are on full lock...if you push the bike down even more it seems to make the bike turn sharper still,but your are really dependent on clutch and throttle then!.

[quickbuck]

I went out and practiced it and thought, what a crock of shit. Pointless waste of time.

They yesterday I was in town on a very narrow street and wanted to do a Uturn and flicked the bike around. As I was striaghtening up and accelerating down the street I noticed that I WAS COUNTERSITTING!!!!!!!

I did note that I did not intentionally move my arse off the seat but rather pushed the bike out from under me so my arse was off (well half off) the seat.

Might be something to it.

Might just be something else to confuse newbies.....

Must admit I have been taking different bikes to the end of the street and seeing how tight I can turn them around.....

Yes, a good throttle and clutch can see me turning the bike on full lock after the short 100m ride.... From never ridden the bike before.

To turn tighter I do actually chuck the bike in... okay, gently guide it into the turn, all the time sitting above the bike.... and looking well over my inside shoulder.

Call it what you like, but I still call it a full lock turn.
To save confusion I don't think I will use the term countersitting.....
Where you place your butt (if you even move it) shouldn't be the name of what you are actually doing.

See, you are making a tight turn. Where you put your butt to achieve that is more of a side effect.

It would be like calling Emergency Braking "Sitting upright" IMHO

[dpex]

Not sure if this is the right forum but, anyway.

In a number of posts in past the issue of where our weight should be displaced has attracted many vigorous comments; the inside knee out and body weight shifted into the turn and onto the pegs, being the most favoured approach.

But, surely, physics says that a better approach would be to shift max weight to the outside peg, while hanging out as far as possible, off the bike, in the opposite direction to the turn.

Surely, such would produce a counterweight to the forces attempting to lay the bike down?

Given that no racer I have ever seen does this I'd be keen to know what I'm missing here.

[Skyryder]

Too complicated for my physics. Just watch the racers. If it works for them.............



Skyyrder

[sinfull]

I do this on my way to the shitter on occasion

[naphazoline]

... shift max weight to the outside peg, while hanging out as far as possible, off the bike, in the opposite direction to the turn.

Surely, such would produce a counterweight to the forces attempting to lay the bike down?.

Funny you should mention this.

I was talking about such matters to a mate of mine recently,who has had a lot of experience riding/racing.
He suggested that i try this technique.

I've only tried it a couple of times,but it sure feels weird to me.:eek5:

[Motu]

shift max weight to the outside peg, while hanging out as far as possible, off the bike, in the opposite direction to the turn.

Surely, such would produce a counterweight to the forces attempting to lay the bike down?


Watch a trials rider doing a very very tight turn....this is the method he uses.What an MX rider....this is the method he uses.

At high speed....it's not a good method.

[Ixion]

Not sure if this is the right forum but, anyway.

In a number of posts in past the issue of where our weight should be displaced has attracted many vigorous comments; the inside knee out and body weight shifted into the turn and onto the pegs, being the most favoured approach.

But, surely, physics says that a better approach would be to shift max weight to the outside peg, while hanging out as far as possible, off the bike, in the opposite direction to the turn.

Surely, such would produce a counterweight to the forces attempting to lay the bike down?

Given that no racer I have ever seen does this I'd be keen to know what I'm missing here.

It depends what you are trying to conserve.

Weight inboard of the turn will allow a faster speed for the same angle of lean. But at the expense (as you intimate) of greater force trying to push the tyre outward.

Weight outboard of the turn, the reverse.

A GP racer nowadays is trying to maximise his lean speed. His concerns are not touching anything down, and not rolling so far over on his tyres that he rolls of the edge of the tread. The super sticky conmpund soft modern tyres are so sticky he doesn't really need to worry about sliding ,until he starts to come out of the turn and wind on throttle, potentially causing the rear wheel to break loose. But by then he is coming upright anyway .

A trials or MX rider is the opposite. He is unlikely to ground anything, and his angle of lean is not so great that he must worry much about running out of tread. But he is riding (often) on slippery and unstable surfaces. Sliding is his worry. So , he reverses things.

Years ago, racers did not crawl inboard. Because they to had crap tyres that did not stick. And often gravel surfaces (yes they used to run the TT on gravel). Their worry was the dreaded side slip.