Liability for stock effluent (cow/sheep shit on the road)?

[McJim]

I have, on more that one occasion while riding around New Zealand beeen sprayed with shit by stock trucks, had arse puckering moments on corners due to cow shit from stock trucks and experienced various other problems due to shit being in the wrong place. I just though it was part of the culture and economy of New Zealand and thought the good ol' Kiwi "get over it" (i.e. we know there's a problem but we're gonna do fuck all about it....a bit like Otago Uni) was to be applied liberally in these cases.

I have recently found out otherwise. If you can get the number plate of a Stock Truck spreading potential death (cow shit) liberally on corners you can contact your local Regional Council with the details and lodge a complaint - you can ask them to keep you appraised of what they do. There are some hefty fines that can be thrown at the responsible parties to make them stop wanting to do it. I firmly believe that any complaints I have will be followed through in Southland and hope that other Regional Councils around the country will look after bikers who raise these instances as issues within their region.

[Mom]

I have complained to my MP for years about this very thing. It is dangerous, and foul to ride on, to say nothing of the damage it actually does to the road surface. Yet to actually be in a position to catch a truck in the act at a time I can take a rego though.

[Skyryder]

I have, on more that one occasion while riding around New Zealand beeen sprayed with shit by stock trucks, had arse puckering moments on corners due to cow shit from stock trucks and experienced various other problems due to shit being in the wrong place. I just though it was part of the culture and economy of New Zealand and thought the good ol' Kiwi "get over it" (i.e. we know there's a problem but we're gonna do fuck all about it....a bit like Otago Uni) was to be applied liberally in these cases.

I have recently found out otherwise. If you can get the number plate of a Stock Truck spreading potential death (cow shit) liberally on corners you can contact your local Regional Council with the details and lodge a complaint - you can ask them to keep you appraised of what they do. There are some hefty fines that can be thrown at the responsible parties to make them stop wanting to do it. I firmly believe that any complaints I have will be followed through in Southland and hope that other Regional Councils around the country will look after bikers who raise these instances as issues within their region.

Don't want to knock you on this but I'm thinking ya pushing 'shit' up hill.

Most Regional Councils are controlled by farm and ag interests. The law is on their books but I doubt if they will ever do much about it. Still you do make a valid point.


Skyryder

[McJim]

I agree that they are difficult to catch if you are tying to target it but motorcyclists are in a very good position to catch them since we travel at a higher average speed than the trucks AND can overtake them at will (hence not getting stuck behind a truck like a car does) I have seen many trucks spiling green smelly goo out the side and have been in a position to take the rego - if more of us do this more of them will have to do something about it.

Things being done in Southland for example are more effluent transfer stations and truck washes and there is talk of cattle having an enforced 12 hour stand down from 'green feed' before transportation.

Also we, as motorcyclists, are far more likely to get really pissed of when we witness it coz it has such serious ramifications for us.

[Hitcher]

Stock trucks are one thing. Dairy farmers who regularly traipse their livestock across the highway without cleaning off the resulting shit are another. Cow piss eats away at bitumen as well. Highway 45 is shocking for this. There are also a couple of dairy farms at Hastwell where the stock crossing is right on the apex of corners. Just lovely.

On state highways I reckon that stock underpasses should be mandatory.

[Skyryder]

Stock trucks are one thing. Dairy farmers who regularly traipse their livestock across the highway without cleaning off the resulting shit are another. Cow piss eats away at bitumen as well. Highway 45 is shocking for this. There are also a couple of dairy farms at Hastwell where the stock crossing is right on the apex of corners. Just lovely.

On state highways I reckon that stock underpasses should be mandatory.

Yep I like the underpass idea. A stick of jelly at each end at milking time now that would be my idea of fun.:love:

Skyryder

[pete376403]

Stock trucks are one thing. Dairy farmers who regularly traipse their livestock across the highway without cleaning off the resulting shit are another. Cow piss eats away at bitumen as well. Highway 45 is shocking for this. There are also a couple of dairy farms at Hastwell where the stock crossing is right on the apex of corners. Just lovely.

On state highways I reckon that stock underpasses should be mandatory.

Encountered that on the control gate bridge on the road around lake Waiararapa. Bridge was totally slick with cowshit, about 50mm deep. I slid into the back of another bike, got a $150 fine for being unable to stop (the other guys ankle was banged up a bit so the ambulance was called. Cops attended.
Incidentally not long after that a cop car slid out of control on cowshit and hit a civilian car (somewhere up near Hamilton IIRC). Civvy was injured. Police Coverup Authority said it was completely unavoidable, no prosecution for the cop driver.

[scumdog]

Don't want to knock you on this but I'm thinking ya pushing 'shit' up hill.

Most Regional Councils are controlled by farm and ag interests. The law is on their books but I doubt if they will ever do much about it. Still you do make a valid point.


Skyryder

Yup, legislation tweaked to suit the cockies (money earner for the country donchaknow?) - dropping effluent off a truck doesn't count like dropping logs off a truck - go figure....

[portokiwi]

I know in Christchurch the CRC didnt want to hear anything about it.
Use to live near a courner where the stock trucks use to turn to go to the local freezing works. Allways crap on the courner. We had seen so many accidents with kids on push bikes falling off....... Not good when it joins the main road.
Reported it many times but it fell on deaf ears in the CRC.

[Slyer]

Was just riding down SH16 from wellsford, must have been 20-30 patches of cow shit along the way. Could still smell it...

[scumdog]

Was just riding down SH16 from wellsford, must have been 20-30 patches of cow shit along the way. Could still smell it...

Gives you great 'freckles' too if you wear an open-faced helmet...:shifty:

[Slyer]

It was all dried out by then, but the patches were around 5 metres long or more.

[Noidy]

Is spilling effluient not classed as an insecure load?

[scumdog]

Is spilling effluient not classed as an insecure load?

As per my first post on this thread, No.

[Okey Dokey]

Don't want to knock you on this but I'm thinking ya pushing 'shit' up hill.

Most Regional Councils are controlled by farm and ag interests. The law is on their books but I doubt if they will ever do much about it. Still you do make a valid point.


Skyryder

You are dreaming, mate. The two councils I have lived under in NZ are both heavily weighted by councillor numbers (population based) in favour of urbanites, despite collecting most of their rates from rural people.

When legislation was passed that effluent tanks had to be on stock trucks, about 10 years ago, councils agreed to put in dump sites. Southland has only just completed it's FIRST one! With two more due to be built.

[phantom]

You ever tried getting the rego on half the stock trucks on the road ? Many ( I was going to put most ) are completely unreadable due to the crap all over them and the fact that they are tucked away under the tray. I am not just saying this because I had a telling off when getting my last wof and being caught shifting my plate which resulted in not being able to see the reflector clearly even though the lights on my bike go all the time

[light]

Thats the one make it harder on the farmers than it already is. How are you supposed to secure the sh*t in a truck thats travelling from one end of the south to the other?

At the end of the day you are just giving fines to the truckers that are just trying to do their job and make ends meet. You cannot control the cattle/sheep from doing what nature intended... and how else are they supposed to transport their herd?

If you all know it is a issue then dont follow so close behind them.

[Slyer]

Thats the one make it harder on the farmers than it already is. How are you supposed to secure the sh*t in a truck thats travelling from one end of the south to the other?

At the end of the day you are just giving fines to the truckers that are just trying to do their job and make ends meet. You cannot control the cattle/sheep from doing what nature intended... and how else are they supposed to transport their herd?

If you all know it is a issue then dont follow so close behind them.
Poorly reasoned argument, it's not an unfair expectation that they don't cover our roads in shit.
In fact most drivers seem to manage it all just fine, we are targeting the slack ones.

[BMWST?]

its F(*&^% easy.If you carry stuff around in /on your vehicle you must ensure it does not become someone elses problem period!!!It is not an excuse that its a important primary industry.Peoples lives could be at risk!

[Ixion]

Are not stock trucks supposed to have holding tanks for the effluent?

If not, they should have. After all , would we condone camper vans dumping the effluent from their toilets over the road ? Same thing.

[Daffyd]

Motorhomes/campers with holding tanks MUST by law have a cap over the shut off valve to prevent shit from spilling on to the road.
Cannot get a WOF/COF without it.

Where, then is the difference between this and a stock truck?

I'll bet the aforementioned truckies and farmers would be more than a little upset if I was to shit on their front lawn!

[JimO]

I'll bet the aforementioned truckies and farmers would be more than a little upset if I was to shit on their front lawn!

haha......... mental image i didnt need

[Radar]

Encountered that on the control gate bridge on the road around lake Waiararapa. Bridge was totally slick with cowshit, about 50mm deep. I slid into the back of another bike, got a $150 fine for being unable to stop (the other guys ankle was banged up a bit so the ambulance was called. Cops attended.


If this ever happens again - a biker getting fined due to shit on the road - I would want to see it taken to court, KB'ers packing the courtroom and protesting to the news media. :oi-grr:

Pete, there was an article about someone opening an effluent gate (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4847187a7693.html) that polluted Lake Waiararapa recently. Was that you taking revenge? ;)

Joking aside, shit on the road can be dangerous. Green to McJim for starting this thread. It seems to be more of a problem in some areas of the country. Luckily I have not encountered crap from trucks or too much cow shit on the road from farmers moving stock. 20 - 30 years ago there was a big problem with stock trucks - since there was no regulation every time a truck went uphill the crap came out, splattering my cage or worse myself when on a bicycle (was not yet a born again biker then).

[MarkH]

On state highways I reckon that stock underpasses should be mandatory.

Definitely! In fact I think most farmers that have to regularly move stock across a road should have to fork out for an underpass, I'd rather they spent a bit of money than endanger the lives of every motorist driving along that road. Let's face it - roads are built for traffic to travel on, the safer we can keep those roads, the better!

[Jdogg]

Up here it is defiantly a offense that they can be fined for, In fact I have just got off the phone to my truckie mate (stock) and he says it is up to $20,00 fine if caught....."caught" being the key word.....

[Finn]

Where, then is the difference between this and a stock truck?

Stock trucks don't have toilets in them.

Put it this way, if you were being transported to your death, you'd be shitting yourself too.

[Ixion]

Definitely! In fact I think most farmers that have to regularly move stock across a road should have to fork out for an underpass, I'd rather they spent a bit of money than endanger the lives of every motorist driving along that road. Let's face it - roads are built for traffic to travel on, the safer we can keep those roads, the better!

Uh, no. Actually, the back roads were built for farmers to move stock on. Think about it. Most roads (motorways and city streets excepted) were there well before motor vehicles were invented. So how could they be built for traffic to travel on.

They were built for the use of the farmers, in most cases with the farmers' money. If we use them we should do so with respect and courtesy.

If you want roads built for traffic to travel on (and no stock) stick to the motorways.

Oh, and if you pull up and pass the time of day with the farmer (if there's fresh stock marking, he'll be somewhere near) instead of blasting through at warp speed, you'll find he's probably not such a bad chap.

[Okey Dokey]

Definitely! In fact I think most farmers that have to regularly move stock across a road should have to fork out for an underpass, I'd rather they spent a bit of money than endanger the lives of every motorist driving along that road. Let's face it - roads are built for traffic to travel on, the safer we can keep those roads, the better!

My experience in rural NZ is that cockies do install underpasses, or they use a mat which they roll up and remove the muck deposited on it, or they clean the road surface.

Roads are not just for motor vehicles. It is legal for farmers to move stock along them. No farmer sets out to ruin motorists' days. They would not use the road unless they had to. Most are very considerate about "emptying out" their stock before transport by truck, and also try to choose times when traffic is minimal when droving stock.

I, too, applaud McJim for bringing this up; but I find the discussion a little bit unbalanced.

[Daffyd]

A big dairy farming concern near here bought the old Tiwai Smelter fire engine for the sole purpose of hosing the shit off the roads adjacent to their farms.

Having said that, I wouldn't go so far as to say that MOST farmers "stand" their stock...some do, but I would guess a minority.

[Daffyd]

Stock trucks don't have toilets in them.



No, they don't, but they are supposed to have holding tanks which do the same job.

While riding to the Magpie Madness last year, I was approaching a right hander when a stock truck came barrelling round the corner towards me.

I was treated to a better display of centrifugal force than I ever had in school science when all the shit that had built up suddenly decided to let go and treat me to an unscheduled shower!

[MarkH]

My experience in rural NZ is that cockies do install underpasses, or they use a mat which they roll up and remove the muck deposited on it, or they clean the road surface.

Some do, but I have been on rides where the whole group came across a cow shit covered road with a large number of cows crossing it.


Roads are not just for motor vehicles. It is legal for farmers to move stock along them. No farmer sets out to ruin motorists' days. They would not use the road unless they had to. Most are very considerate about "emptying out" their stock before transport by truck, and also try to choose times when traffic is minimal when droving stock.

I never said or implied that what farmers were doing was illegal. I just think that many farmers do use the road when they don't have to, they could build an underpass for example.

In my experience there are only a few farms where they need to move their stock across a road, the majority of farms are on one side of the road only. But where the farm is on both sides of the road the cows are often moved for milking and therefore not done just when traffic is minimal.

I would say though that I can't think of anywhere that I have come across where the stock is regularly moved across a road near a blind corner. Of course that does not mean that there is nowhere where that happens - but I would expect at least those warning signs and an amber flashing light that I have seen occasionally.

I would also suggest that in a case where a new road is built cutting across a farm then the road builders should build and underpass for the farmer - to be fair to the farmer and to improve safety for the motorists. This may be a standard thing to do in such a case, I don't really know.

[scumdog]

Roads are not just for motor vehicles. It is legal for farmers to move stock along them. No farmer sets out to ruin motorists' days. They would not use the road unless they had to.

'Used a vehicle in a manner likly to cause damage to any road surface'? $600.

Sems reasonable.

After all, the average motorist does not use/drive in a manner that wreck roads that badly.

[Okey Dokey]

'Used a vehicle ...

Sheep and cattle are not vehicles. I think (hope) you are taking the mickey.

MarkH, I don't know how a cocky could keep a road clean while the cattle are crossing it- nappies, maybe. When I said they clean the road I meant once the cows had crossed it...

[Okey Dokey]

I am not a trucky, but I guess stock trucks have a sort of tray that is under the animals that drains into a holding tank? I've not had the experience of being sprayed by a truck, but I guess if there is muck on the tray that has not reached the tank, it would be very difficult to prevent it from spraying.

Once it is in the tank it should be fine. However, when the tank is full, the trucky needs a place to empty it. For years there were no dump sites between Reefton on the West Coast and Riverlands near Blenheim. So what is the trucky to do? They certainly can't dump it in laybys because of the environmental issues. This is another example of insufficient infrastructure in the roading system of NZ.

I mentioned in an earlier post that Southland had no dump site whatsoever until just recently when the first one was opened. Yet the SRC has hit truckys with substantial fines, as McJim has noted.

Markh, I realise you didn't claim illegality; I'm sorry if it seemed I put words in your mouth. I was just trying to make a point that roads aren't just for motorists. A lot of city people may not realise that, unlike yourself.

I am a motorcyclist and vulnerable as we all are to hazards on the road. I just think that blame is being laid here without due consideration.

[Dazza]

Stock truck effluent, very interesting topic & guess what, it's all going to hit the fan again in another couple of months. It all starts on the farm, if the Farmer actually emptied there cows out ie. held for 12hrs & feed dry food ie.hay we wouldn't have half of this problem,but no the animals are still being brought to the yards as the truck is reversing into the loading race.
We have a wonderful hill down/up here called Mount Messenger,May-July is watch out for the dreaded green stuff, 12mths of the year watch out for diesel :msn-wink:
As for ringing your local RC, they actually have to catch them in the act I suspect for a sucessful prosecution :Police:, or have you'd have to prepared to turn up in court to act as witness. Stock effluent dumps are the way to go but we definately need more of them.
Stock underpasses are a good idea but in this current economic climate don't hold your breath on many new ones going in.
It's not one set of blanket rules for the whole country either, each region addresses it differently be RC, DC or Transit NZ each responsible for different aspects.
So, agreed there is no need for effluent on our public roads,something is been done about it & stay alert to stay alive :2guns:

[Okey Dokey]

Agreed, farmers should empty their stock, and more dump sites are needed.

You raised a good point about the RCs, DCs, and Transit that I hadn't thought about. Just a further complication.

[MarkH]

MarkH, I don't know how a cocky could keep a road clean while the cattle are crossing it- nappies, maybe. When I said they clean the road I meant once the cows had crossed it...

Yeah, but many don't clean the road. The cows that were crossing the road may have dropped fresh shit that could be understandable, but there was plenty of dried cow pats on the road too. So I am talking about a farmer that takes his cows across the road twice a day (each way) for milking and doesn't clean the road afterwards. I think for such regular crossings the farmer should be made to build an underpass.

[Okey Dokey]

Fair enough, if the farmer isn't playing by the rules he should be the subject of a complaint.

I know this is only the internet and kb, but I hate seeing farmers and truckys all blamed in a sweeping generalisation.

Hugs for my fellow biker, and for all the good farmers and truckys!:hug:

[Grahameeboy]

I have, on more that one occasion while riding around New Zealand beeen sprayed with shit by stock trucks, had arse puckering moments on corners due to cow shit from stock trucks and experienced various other problems due to shit being in the wrong place. I just though it was part of the culture and economy of New Zealand and thought the good ol' Kiwi "get over it" (i.e. we know there's a problem but we're gonna do fuck all about it....a bit like Otago Uni) was to be applied liberally in these cases.

I have recently found out otherwise. If you can get the number plate of a Stock Truck spreading potential death (cow shit) liberally on corners you can contact your local Regional Council with the details and lodge a complaint - you can ask them to keep you appraised of what they do. There are some hefty fines that can be thrown at the responsible parties to make them stop wanting to do it. I firmly believe that any complaints I have will be followed through in Southland and hope that other Regional Councils around the country will look after bikers who raise these instances as issues within their region.

Don't get that up here in Auckland...:cool:

[Ixion]

Y'know, while cow shit isn't the nicest stuff in the world , it's not going to kill y' for Pete's sake. And if you get a bit on you, it's hardly earth shatterering is it?

Hardly be anyone surely who hasn't squelched through a few cow pats. hell when I was a boy, chucking them at one another until we were all plastered from head to toe classed as good childish amusement.

And spare a thought for the cocky. He's ankle deep in it most of the day.

[pete376403]

Y'know, while cow shit isn't the nicest stuff in the world , it's not going to kill y' for Pete's sake. .

It might if you loose control of the bike because you were riding along on a perfectly dry and grippy road and without warning the road turned slick with cow shit. As happened to me. I stayed on, but the rider of the bike I slid into suffered a broken ankle. The cop who billed me agreed it was wrong, but he said he had to write someone up for it and I was the lucky winner

[Clubbie]

I just did a nerdy search for stock underpass legislation - have heard many different 'rules' from many people.

Got a ton of hits - appears each council has it's own weird and wonderful view on the subject.

Awesome, that clears it right up! :shutup: