Soft or Hard armor? real life experience?

[Zapf]

Hello everybody....
Just wondering if anyone has a bit of insight as to if Soft armor or Hard armor is better in motorcycle clothing and any real life experience in crashing with Soft / Hard armor and difference?

I have heard on some sites they say hard armor can break and end up causing more damage to the rider, true / false?

Poll: Soft armor better or Hard armor better?


ps. I am trying to decide between wearing my 1 Pcs NON water proof leathers with hard armor OR my "water proof" 2 Pcs leathers with soft armor.... for my South Island trip.

ok. I have a back protector vest as will, so I'll be wearing that regardless of which suit I wear.

[Skyryder]

No expert on this but the general theory is that softer is better as it 'absorbs' on impact. Came across an interesteing English sight some time ago on this very question. Will try and find it.

Skyryder

[Paul in NZ]

Hard armour spreads the impact over a larger area....

Best is a combination of the 2. Hard armour with soft inside...

I'd hate to see the impact that would break the hard armour in my Spidi Jacket. I think a few jags from splintered armour would be the very least of my worries..

Paul N

[sAsLEX]

I would like to point out that on a big trip the difference in comfort will have more bearing on your survival than the slight difference in amour performance.

Your new leathers should be fine, just buy a 80 odd dollar one pice rain suit for them!

[sAsLEX]

No expert on this but the general theory is that softer is better as it 'absorbs' on impact. Came across an interesteing English sight some time ago on this very question. Will try and find it.

Skyryder

not quite true I would imagine, a well designed honeycomb etc type design would spread the impact better than say soft foam.

[Grumpy]

Wear whichever has the back protecter. Had a set of Dianese leathers on when I had a spill a few years ago. All hard armour but no back protecter. Result... every thing that was covered by the armour was good. However, fractured back, punctured lung...etc.

Don't worry about the waterproof thing. Cheap set of wet weathers will sort that.

[Skyryder]

not quite true I would imagine, a well designed honeycomb etc type design would spread the impact better than say soft foam.

Clearly a combination of two where there is both the absorption of impact and protection is the way to go. There was no mention of materials in the original post and I would not use soft foam as armour. However I may have interpertated the question wrong. Go to http://www.flamesonmytank.co.za/Clobber.htm and answer the question In motorcycle apparel tests soft body armour has proved to be less effective in protecting critical areas than hard body armour True or Fasle.

As mentioned previously I came across and English site by a doctor who specalised in repairing broken bones etc, and he had done some tests with the help of a university into body armour material. Unfortunately I have changed computers and do not have the address.

I noticed that the poll ratings show most riders believe that hard is better. I'ts cheaper and the marketeers have produced another myth.

Skyryder

[Motu]

Make sure your armour has a CE rating,then at least you know it has had some (non human) testing and is not what some one has made to the standard of - ''now that looks bloody good eh?'' There are different CE standards for body and back armour...I have posted them before but can't be bothered finding them again.I have hard and soft mixes,I prefer the hard armour for the low speed impacts I am more likely to get with my style of riding.

[Biff]

I'm with Paul. Soft armour on the outside acts as a kind of crumple zone while the hard underneath distributes the impact energy.

[Waylander]

Don't know yet I havn't ridden with either yet. Went and looked at a jacket today that had hard armour for the elbows and shoulders and about mid range stuff for the back and soft around the ribs. Felt comfortable inside of it though it was a size to big for me. So I'm probably gonna go in in the next week or so and get one then later on get the pants to go with it. Will tell y'all what I think then.

[sAsLEX]

I noticed that the poll ratings show most riders believe that hard is better. I'ts cheaper and the marketeers have produced another myth.

Skyryder

Doubt its cheaper, wouldn't a slab of foam be cheaper to make than the cast/injection moulded external plastic armour of some leathers??http://www.alpinestars.com/_lp/details/smxsuitredelbo.jpg

And that site lacked credible link, references to which tests the soft armour won in

[marty]

i've had a *ahem* few craashes off my bmx bike over the past few years. i used to use soft armour, but after a particularly nasty hard fall onto my elbow, which split the skin to the bone (thru the armour) i have gone to full hard armour. i had a really hard fall from about 5m at 40km/h onto packed limestone last year, and apart from completly wrecking my race shirt, i got up and rode away. if i wasn't wearing armour, or had soft armour on, i reckon i would have busted a collar bone, maybe some ribs. the violators have hard armour, and i wouldn't have anything else

[onearmedbandit]

On a different tack, I wear Sidi Race Vertabra's, and before purchasing them I did some research. Quite surprising was some comments along the lines of the firmness of the boot around the ankle area was causing some riders to break their legs as the boots have little 'give'. Just how these riders attributed their injuries to the boot I don't know, but it just goes to show no matter what improvements get made someone will find reason to cast a bad light on them. (This goes with the first comment in the thread.)

[DEATH_INC.]

Hard with a soft backing (inside)is the only way to go.I've had some bloody good offs both on the road in my Technics and in mx too with hard upper armour and walked away relatively unharmed.Sorry,soft armour don't do jack,at least in my experience.....

[curious george]

Make sure your armour has a CE rating,then at least you know it has had some (non human) testing and is not what some one has made to the standard of - ''now that looks bloody good eh?'' There are different CE standards for body and back armour...I have posted them before but can't be bothered finding them again.I have hard and soft mixes,I prefer the hard armour for the low speed impacts I am more likely to get with my style of riding.


Probably the best advice sofar....
So, hardarmour it is then!

[pritch]

I do try to avoid too much personal experience in this area. A woman with whom I work has a brother in law who pranged his MultiStrada a while back.

He was in hospital for a day or two but commented that he was really lucky that he was wearing good gear. I asked for the make, the answer was Dainese.

I bought Spidi and they use a mixture of hard and soft armour, I trust that they know what they are doing...

Compared to my old Belstaffs this stuff all looks great :-)

[bluninja]

Errr.....crashed in both :confused:

My ONLY road accident was RSVR verus tractor. Full leathers with hard faced armour and foam behind, Vertebrae 1 boots, and dainese back protector (one with a hinged plastic cover. The leathers were cut, torn, split and abraided; the plastic covers at the knees showed 'creep' on the plastic from the impact, and the plastic at the left shoulder cracked and split on impact. On the boots, the sole was ripped from one boot half way from toe to heel. Apart from hitting the tractor I took the right clip-on off with my right leg as I went forwards.

My injuries: possible hairline fracture to right wrist and severe haematoma both sides all limbs (which took about 8 months recovery time!)

On the track my leathers had the Hein Gericke rubber nippled mat type armour; plus the dainese back protector. 2 Offs at hairpins and one high speed slide and bounce across Manfeilds grass and not even a bruise (the broken thumb/wrist wasn't protected). Incidently I highsided at a track day at Monza and had a line of bruising that matched the shape of the plastic over the back protector. However the slide on my head and elbow (as I curled up to avoid my upside down bike wore through my helmet and elbow, plus soft armour).

Personally I'm more comfortable with the soft armour, and other than penetrating injuries reckon the soft armour (provided it's of good quality) is the way to go.

So to answer the question...I prefer to wear soft armour and not crash :yeah:

[Skyryder]

Have not found what I am looking for but did find this that looks interesting.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/30/tech/main614961.shtml

Skyryder

[FROSTY]

I just cant see how hard armour does jack to protect a body.
The stuff Ive seen inside leathers seems to be hard inflexible plastic
My latest 2 crashes have confirmed why I like good quality leathers with padding on impact points.

[Blakamin]

I just cant see how hard armour does jack to protect a body.
The stuff Ive seen inside leathers seems to be hard inflexible plastic
My latest 2 crashes have confirmed why I like good quality leathers with padding on impact points.
yup... the pole came off worst on the one i seen...
thank f*ck for your gear.....


made me buy boots and the leathers are on their way...

[Fordy]

I can't find the thread for you as the sites been rebuilt, but there was a discussion on www.mcnninjas.co.uk about back protectors. A guy called T.C. who was a Class 1 Police Rider until retirement and after that a motorcycle accident investigator stated that in his opinion he could not recommend hard back protectors for the road as with kerbs and other 'furniture' about he had witnessed/investigated too many accidents where the hard back protector had impacted on the spine and complicated the injuries. This did not happen with soft back protectors, and was not a factor on the track as there is usually run off and nothing sticking up to catch you.

I use the soft honeycomb stuff Hein Gericke use.

[moggy]

Unfortunately I have come off at around 45 mph on a motorway. It was boxing day, so over here - rather cold, I was wearing several layers of fleece topped off with water proof fabric belstaff jacket and trousers with knox armour on elbows, shoulders, knees and back, also wearing belstaff gloves with hard knuckles on them and a pair of sidi rain boots.
End result one dislocated shoulder due to taking full force of impact and weight of bike onto my elbow which I dont think any piece of kit on the marketcould have prevented. Not another mark on me

Kit:
Trousers
slightly scuffed knee, didn't bother to replace them,

jacket
a couple of small tears to the arm - belstaff replaced the arm for me and broken zip keeping the trousers together - zip survived the crash, just not the xray technicians attempt to get it off me whilst still strapped to a spine board.
Gloves,
knuckles on one very badly worn down and bashed in, but no damage to hand underneath - replaced them

boots
slightly scuffed on one foot, didn't replace them

In all I put it down to the kit for having such minor injury

[Motu]

I don't have to look up the CE standards for body armour - they are on my gear.For body armour you need EN 1621-1,for back protectors it's EN 1621-2,for back armour it's a much more severe test,as you'd expect.All my hard armour is stitched to foam,part of the CE requirement.For those using the honeycomb or air cell type backprotector - you realise they can only be used once? They absorb energy on impact,once they have done that they won't do it again.

[Zapf]

Have not found what I am looking for but did find this that looks interesting.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/30/tech/main614961.shtml

Skyryder

ermm cool stuff.... just hope they don't classify it...

[mouldy]

I'm with Paul. Soft armour on the outside acts as a kind of crumple zone while the hard underneath distributes the impact energy.
I think you've got that backwards CE apprved armour has a hard shell outside with a closed cell foam lining.

[Zapf]

anyone seen or used this? (Soft armor)

http://www.tprobodyarmour.co.uk/home.html

http://www.tprobodyarmour.co.uk/header.gif

[vifferman]

I've had experience with crashing with no armour, soft armour, and both.

My leather trou have Knox armour, which is sort of soft, and very thick (about 20mm or so). Saved me from serious damage to my knee when I collided with a U-turning car in 2003 and my leg was betwen the bike and car.
The Teknic jacket has kevlar pads on elbows and shoulders, with soft armour under the kevlar. AND under that, there are pouches with hard armour. This armour is plastic (thick polypropylene, at a guess), which will NOT shatter, as it's somewhat flexible. It also has soft padding in it, so there's little likelihood of it causing any damage.
The key thing with any armour is that it stays put on whatever it's supposed to be protecting. The first crash I had with my jacket on, was a 'fall'n'slide' crash (lowside at about 40 km/h), and I landed on my shoulder. The armour didn't work that well, moving off the shoulder slightly, and I re-injured an existing shoulder injury. This was because at that stage I didn't have the zip on the back of my pants to zip the jacket and pants together. I now ride with the arms and sides of the jacket cinched in, so that the armour stays put over the joints, and the pants and jacket zipped together.

The jacket has built-in soft armour in the back, which I'd like to augment with a back protector. It has a pouch in the lining for this purpose, but I think that due to the jacket being a generous fit (so it can have a liner in it, and so I can wear a jersey underneath), a strap-on back protector would be a better option.

When I had armour added to the pants (they had only thin foam), I tried several different types, including shoulder/knee armour similar to that in my jacket. The pads I've now got are kind of like mini cricket pads, and cover most of the knee, so they're better than the kewl-looking and compact armour I wanted to add. I've also got removable neoprene-like pads for the hips, about 14mm thick, that I've never worn because of the bulk and because it makes me very hot! Naughty, eh?

[Yarg]

For your trip I would go with the two piece outfit. and a couple pair of gloves and throw in insect repellent.
Wot time of the year r u going??

[scumdog]

Being old and having a stiff back at times I was wondering if there is such a beast as a sleeveless back protector that I could wear under my (tassled) leather jacket?
Or even a 'strap-on' back protector?

[Biff]

Being old and having a stiff back at times I was wondering if there is such a beast as a sleeveless back protector that I could wear under my (tassled) leather jacket?
Or even a 'strap-on' back protector?

Yep - I use a strap on Knox back protector.
I know Kikaha also uses a strap on. He's also got a back protector with straps..........

[Lias]

I know Kikaha also uses a strap on. He's also got a back protector with straps..........

Ouch! :2thumbsup

[Zapf]

For your trip I would go with the two piece outfit. and a couple pair of gloves and throw in insect repellent.
Wot time of the year r u going??

this month actually :) why a couple pair of gloves?

[scumdog]

Yep - I use a strap on Knox back protector.
I know Kikaha also uses a strap on. He's also got a back protector with straps..........


OOOh! You are sooo krewl!!

[Waylander]

I know Kikaha also uses a strap on...
Is it hard, or soft?

[Kickaha]

OOOh! You are sooo krewl!!

That's ok he will pay for it shortly,I'm already loading the guns :shake:

[Skyryder]

ermm cool stuff.... just hope they don't classify it...

Wet armour ??

Skyryder

[sAsLEX]

too late to classify it if its on the net I would of thought.

I wear a Spidi Airback which has hard plastic outershell, with pneumatic cushions and then foam so I suppose that has both benifits of hard and soft