What do you think? (plumbing costs)

[bull]

I ring and request a plumber, the lovely lady replies sure thatll be $80 + mileage. And ill call you to advise when he will be there.

The following day as im getting my kids ready to go to softball training the plumber turns up(no phone call to advise). He arrives at 4pm and my boys training starts at 4:30pm which i still make it to ontime as plumber unblocks the pump and leaves me the mess to tidy up as i advised him the less time he is here the better for me $$ wise.

Next day the company he works for tell me that itll be 1.5hrs for the job +$30 for the mileage. I advise her on the phone that he was only here for 30min and im not overly impressed with the added cost.

Just get another call today to say that the time is broken down as follows:

30min to get to my house to do the job
40min to do the job
20min to get home
+$30 standard mileage charge.

I tell her that she told me over the phone that i pay $80.00 per hr + mileage(no mention of the travel time costs to get to my job).Also get told that this month they have just increased the hourly rate to $110.00 so im the lucky one only having to pay $80.00/hr.

Told the lady that it would appear that i am the unlucky one as i got the last job of the day which has to pay for his trip home. Her reply is that each job pays a portion of the travel between jobs - to which i reply so how much of the 30 mins travel to my job did the last job have to pay? No reply.....

I ended the conversation with - please send me the invoice, a copy of your costs policy and also the complaints procedure and well go from there.

Its tough times right now and im fucked if i have to pay for someone to drive home from my job. Which raises the question if i pay for travel TO my job and travel FROM my job, and poor joe bloggs who also has paid for the travel TO his job and FROM his job to mine then they are obviously double dipping the charges between jobs.

Perhaps im just being a prick - let me know your thoughts...

[Tank]

Services are covered by the consumer gaurentees act:

http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/consumerinfo/cga/servicefailures.html

Note the part that says:

Reasonable price

If a price for the work has not been discussed with the service provider, you do not have to pay a price which is unreasonable in the circumstances.


I would also ask for evidence of the last place he did his last job. Also - I dont think that they can charge for him to get home.

Get the invoice. Dont pay and explain why - reference the above link.

If they still insist and dont come back with a fair price - inform them that you are laying a complaint with the tribunal and do so (it only cost $50).

[AllanB]

I understand a set 'travel rate' - that is fair if applicable. Loading it up is not fair.

And I'd NEVER expect to pay for someone to travel home - I've never been paid to get to or from work!

[325rocket]

we had our washing machine fixed by the local guy. he charged $30 minimum travel. we found out after we paid he works from home and lives in the road next to us, would be a 2 minute drive max. i guess these guys need cash aswell but ill be fucked if we use him again.

[MsKABC]

Pay the quoted price by cheque (so you have a record). I doubt they'd send it to a debt collection agency for the balance owing. Pretty shabby service, and they certainly won't get any repeat business from you, dumbasses. :no:

[bull]

we had our washing machine fixed by the local guy. he charged $30 minimum travel. we found out after we paid he works from home and lives in the road next to us, would be a 2 minute drive max. i guess these guys need cash aswell but ill be fucked if we use him again.

Fair enough if he advised prior to the job of his $30 min travel(tho he could have done it for zero travel being around the corner and all) my gripe is I was only told $80 / hr + mileage but it would seem my plumber doubles as a highly paid van driver. $40 for plumbing job and a further $80 for him to drive the van(+$30 petrol).

If they had told me all the costs at the start I would have called another plumber.

[Murray]

Would have cost you nothing if you had unblocked the pump yourself!!

[peasea]

Would have cost you nothing if you had unblocked the pump yourself!!

Yup, pumps are pretty simple. However, if it's the time thing that's different. Clocks are a prick to fix.

[bull]

Would have cost you nothing if you had unblocked the pump yourself!!

Alas you are right - to make it clear we have a fast-flo pump station system that was very full and the warning buzzer alerted this to me. Upon opening the pump system top off i could really only see glimpses of pipes and had no idea where to attack it from. After watching the guy clear it this time im pretty sure i can do it myself next time around. The key for me was seeing the tank empty and seeing where to loosen off the pipe and remove the pump itself from the tank.

[Tank]

The key for me was seeing the tank empty and seeing where to loosen off the pipe and remove the pump itself from the tank.

You make it sound like me taking off one of those vacuum penis enhancers.

[The Stranger]

Fair enough if he advised prior to the job of his $30 min travel(tho he could have done it for zero travel being around the corner and all) my gripe is I was only told $80 / hr + mileage but it would seem my plumber doubles as a highly paid van driver. $40 for plumbing job and a further $80 for him to drive the van(+$30 petrol).

If they had told me all the costs at the start I would have called another plumber.

It appears from what you say that they did tell you the price from the start.
Many charge time from the depot to site and back + milage for the vehicle.

If you have a plumber who could be gainfully employed on a building site for say 8 hrs a day and he has to stop earning on that site, travel to you, effect the fix then travel back to site, if he doesn't bill his travel time then who recompenses him? If no one, then why would he leave site to come to you?

Whilst that may not have been the case here he is still equivilent i.e. the plumbing firm want to and deserves to eran the same amount from their site personel and their odd job personel or why have the odd job guys when they could all be on site?

As to not getting paid for travel to and from work, it was often the case and sometimes still is in industries where there is no fixed place of work for travel costs and/or time to be paid to an employee or contractor.
The carpenters award used to provide for this as a matter of course.

It would appear that there is some double dipping, on the travel to your site anyway. That said one computer company I am aware of charges from depot and back regardless of if there is another client on the same trip and if so, they pay from depot and back too. So long as their customers are aware of and therefore I guess agree to this I see no problem with it.

A standard travel charge even if someone is just around the corner is not uncommon also. If not, it becomes difficult to be "fair" to all concerned. Someone rings up - the person knows the price, simple. Nothing to work out and it's swings and round abouts. Often the time to prepare for a site visit is the same and the travel "just around the corner" only makes up a small portion of the actual "travel charge".

[Max Preload]

Looks like they're triple charging for the travel if they're charging time to the job, time from the job AND a mileage charge. I would expect the mileage to factor in travel time. Most unreasonable and I would be paying only what was agreed.

No need to worry about debt collection - when a debt is in dispute as it clearly is they can't lodge a default against you.

[yungatart]

Well, f**K me!
Thats incredible!
Pay by cheque..note on the cheque that "presentation of this cheque constitutes full and final settlement"

Note to self...remind Mstrs to add travel time plus petrol to all his jobs...we could be rolling in $$ any time soon:clap:

[Taz]

I might get back into plumbing...... If they didn't pay so well where I am.

[The Stranger]

Looks like they're triple charging for the travel if they're charging time to the job, time from the job AND a mileage charge. I would expect the mileage to factor in travel time. Most unreasonable and I would be paying only what was agreed.

No need to worry about debt collection - when a debt is in dispute as it clearly is they can't lodge a default against you.

Triple charging?
Mileage is to cover vehicle costs, not the cost of the plumber sitting on his arse in traffic.
So lets see, you have an half hour job. You have to take a call, perhaps select your gear and tools, perhaps collect gear from a plumbing supplies shop travel to and from the site fill out time sheets and write up invoices for each job. Around Auckland at least you can spend 3/4 of an hour per trip each way. You are lucky if you can fit in 4 half hour jobs in an 8hr day. Ok, maybe 5, Yet you still find it unreasonable for him to charge his time for the trip. Would you be happy working for 8 hrs and getting paid for 2.5? Because if so, let me know, I got a job for you.

[Max Preload]

Triple charging?
Mileage is to cover vehicle costs, not the cost of the plumber sitting on his arse in traffic.
So lets see, you have an half hour job. You have to take a call, perhaps select your gear and tools, perhaps collect gear from a plumbing supplies shop travel to and from the site fill out time sheets and write up invoices for each job. Around Auckland at least you can spend 3/4 of an hour per trip each way. You are lucky if you can fit in 4 half hour jobs in an 8hr day. Ok, maybe 5, Yet you still find it unreasonable for him to charge his time for the trip. Would you be happy working for 8 hrs and getting paid for 2.5? Because if so, let me know, I got a job for you.

Nice conjured scenario, but this was a blocked pump and nothing in it matches what happened here. There's no mention of any required parts pick-ups. And it isn't Auckland. And if you're spending 3/4 hr between each job you need to look at your time management skills and plan your day a whole lot better. It's not like this was an emergency call, and you can't tell me that the plumber drove for an hour to get to this job (if their policy is as it seems and travel times are split between jobs).

Damn right triple charging. It's not like a) the location of the job was a secret b) you should be charged for the time the plumber takes to get home after work and c) on top of that a $30 for literally nothing. I don't charge for my trip to and from whatever location I'm working at and neither does anyone who is reasonable - it's factored into your rate. Any mileage charge should include travel time. Not to mention they never mentioned these extras or he'd have simply got someone else.

Maybe they should be up front about the true costs and stop doing jobs so geographically remote. Mind you, word has probably got around so now they have had to extend the territory they 'service' in order to find new suckers.... ummmm, I mean 'customers'.

Are you honestly going to sit there and attempt to defend the thieves?

Oh, and thanks for the job offer but I don't need it. I've been self-employed for many years and don't need to advertise because word of good people who don't pad their bills with bullshit charges gets around all on it's own in industry.

[JimO]

im a self employed tiler and as far as i know you can only charge 15 minutes each way so 30 mins travel. that plus 60c a k. I have a mate who is a self employed plumber most days he charges out 10 hrs and usually only works 7 or 8. If i was doing your job i have a minimum charge of 1 hr ($45) plus $20 mileage

[Swoop]

I have asked plumbers if I may sit in on their classes and learn how they work out their charge out rate.
All I got in return was a blank stare.
Security camera footage will have to be viewed, as I'm sure they have something like the lotto ball-spinning-machine gizmo that just pushes out random numbers. These are then written down on the plumber's invoice and presented to the customer.

[The Baron]

Hi.
1/ Calm down
2/ Stop dealing with staff and talk to the Manager/owner
3/ Be nice

Your dispute is over $40 difference so talk to someone in charge and tell them you were quoted 80+30=110 and have now been charged $150.
Tell them this is $40 more than quoted and can you come to an agreement.

Try it.

[GIXser]

I ring and request a plumber, the lovely lady replies sure thatll be $80 + mileage. And ill call you to advise when he will be there.

The following day as im getting my kids ready to go to softball training the plumber turns up(no phone call to advise). He arrives at 4pm and my boys training starts at 4:30pm which i still make it to ontime as plumber unblocks the pump and leaves me the mess to tidy up as i advised him the less time he is here the better for me $$ wise.

Next day the company he works for tell me that itll be 1.5hrs for the job +$30 for the mileage. I advise her on the phone that he was only here for 30min and im not overly impressed with the added cost.

Just get another call today to say that the time is broken down as follows:

30min to get to my house to do the job
40min to do the job
20min to get home
+$30 standard mileage charge.

I tell her that she told me over the phone that i pay $80.00 per hr + mileage(no mention of the travel time costs to get to my job).Also get told that this month they have just increased the hourly rate to $110.00 so im the lucky one only having to pay $80.00/hr.

Told the lady that it would appear that i am the unlucky one as i got the last job of the day which has to pay for his trip home. Her reply is that each job pays a portion of the travel between jobs - to which i reply so how much of the 30 mins travel to my job did the last job have to pay? No reply.....

I ended the conversation with - please send me the invoice, a copy of your costs policy and also the complaints procedure and well go from there.

Its tough times right now and im fucked if i have to pay for someone to drive home from my job. Which raises the question if i pay for travel TO my job and travel FROM my job, and poor joe bloggs who also has paid for the travel TO his job and FROM his job to mine then they are obviously double dipping the charges between jobs.

Perhaps im just being a prick - let me know your thoughts...

your'e on the money dude, i had another toilet installed at my place, he quoted me $2000 , when i got the bill it was $4600, i paid him two grand, and they are still waiting on the rest that was in 07" fuck em , (plumbers suck, so does shirriffs:) i hope he;s reading this):)

[JATZ]

Hi.
1/ Calm down
2/ Stop dealing with staff and talk to the Manager/owner
3/ Be nice

Your dispute is over $40 difference so talk to someone in charge and tell them you were quoted 80+30=110 and have now been charged $150.
Tell them this is $40 more than quoted and can you come to an agreement.

Try it.

This seems like sensible advice, could be worth a try ?

If it doesn't work then as GIXer said "fuck em":bash:

[bull]

Oh im calm - the non calm me would go and find the plumber and put him in the pump and then charge him for my time to go and find him, the time to get back to my place, the time to put him in the pump and then finally when i remove him - the time to unblock my fricking pump LOL.

Just to clear this even more I was told $80 / hr + mileage. So if it takes him 30mins to do the job then im looking at $40 + mileage = around $70 not the $150 they reckon.

And i am being as nice as i can possibly be, and with a few careful questions to them it really showed what the costs are for and how they seem to charge two clients for the travel between the two sites.

Thanks for all the advice - not sure how this will pan out but im happy to pay some of the invoice for the actual work done - its the parts of the travel that gets me confussed.

[Timber020]

80$ an hour for a single bogan in a van, that bites. 110 an hour is just a con. What are they, politicians?

They obviously are getting to much work, next time call someone else!

[piston broke]

I ring and request a plumber, the lovely lady replies sure thatll be $80 + mileage. And ill call you to advise when he will be there.

The following day as im getting my kids ready to go to softball training the plumber turns up(no phone call to advise). He arrives at 4pm and my boys training starts at 4:30pm which i still make it to ontime as plumber unblocks the pump and leaves me the mess to tidy up as i advised him the less time he is here the better for me $$ wise.

Next day the company he works for tell me that itll be 1.5hrs for the job +$30 for the mileage. I advise her on the phone that he was only here for 30min and im not overly impressed with the added cost.

Just get another call today to say that the time is broken down as follows:

30min to get to my house to do the job
40min to do the job
20min to get home
+$30 standard mileage charge.

I tell her that she told me over the phone that i pay $80.00 per hr + mileage(no mention of the travel time costs to get to my job).Also get told that this month they have just increased the hourly rate to $110.00 so im the lucky one only having to pay $80.00/hr.

Told the lady that it would appear that i am the unlucky one as i got the last job of the day which has to pay for his trip home. Her reply is that each job pays a portion of the travel between jobs - to which i reply so how much of the 30 mins travel to my job did the last job have to pay? No reply.....

I ended the conversation with - please send me the invoice, a copy of your costs policy and also the complaints procedure and well go from there.

Its tough times right now and im fucked if i have to pay for someone to drive home from my job. Which raises the question if i pay for travel TO my job and travel FROM my job, and poor joe bloggs who also has paid for the travel TO his job and FROM his job to mine then they are obviously double dipping the charges between jobs.

Perhaps im just being a prick - let me know your thoughts...

i reckon from those numbers you may have been overcharged 1/4 hr.
for that $20 could you dismantle, deliver and reconnect?
have you got a satisfactory job and a guarentee(warranty)for the job?
i don't see why he shouldn't charge you for half his travel time.
if they only do small jobs,do you think they can survive if they can only charge for 3/4 of their day?

[popelli]

best advice is either get a firm price in writing before they commence the job or pay up

you can try to negotiate a lessor amount or short pay but if he may take you to the small claims court you will end up paying anyway

other advice is either find another plumber (which after the above you will probably have to anyway) or do it yourself

[ckai]

Not that it helps, but we charge a mileage rate out of city limits only. If the staff had a normal place of work i.e. office, they wouldn't get paid for travel to work so you can't reasonably charge it. We also find the closest staff member to a client so the charge is the least possible. Unlike some other firms, we don't make a profit on travel. Just us, but it doesn't seem right (we're not travelling anywhere).

My previous job we had standard travel charges, $20 for this town, $30 for this one. If I was working is a town that charged a larger mileage rate and had several jobs, I'd proportion it out the travelling to the town so it would be cheaper.

Mileage rates should reflect the time involved in the driving. Unless you're a limo driver $110/hr (or $80/hr) is not a reasonable charge for travelling to a job. In fact you could probably hire a private body guard at that rate to drive you everywhere.

I see the point that you have to charge part of your travel time to get a full days pay but it has to reflect reasonable. VERY FEW VEHICLES cost $30 for 1 hour of travelling. So that's bullshit to charge that AND an body guard hourly rate to travel there.

It makes me laugh about plumbers $110/hr for a plumber that if they stuff up you get shit everywhere, but a nurse is $50/hr and if they stuff up...you DIE!

But if people pay it...absolute bullocks (and I'm done :))

[HenryDorsetCase]

You make it sound like me taking off one of those vacuum penis enhancers.

they come OFF?

oh hell!

[lb99]

I drove 404km today, to "unblock a pump"
which basically means waiding around in some cunts shit retreiving something one of them flushed it. took 6 hours + 4 1/2 hrs driving time, guess who's paying THAT bill.

blocking the septic tank up was a pair of knickers (maybe a size 10) and caught up in it were a whole heap of "moonfish" the very large female home owner had no idea what the fuck caused it, although I did embarrass the hell out of her teenage daughter.......

me "hi, no school today?"
her "nope"
me "did you have a good summer?"
her "yep"
me "these yours?" showing contents of bucket

she blushed madley and ran away, didn't see her again all day

[blossomsowner]

i don't see why he shouldn't charge you for half his travel time.
if they only do small jobs,do you think they can survive if they can only charge for 3/4 of their day?

if they are charging for 3/4 of an eight hour day @ $110 per/h thats $660 for a day. Plenty of people make that in a week.........


that bullshit hourly rate surely would be to cover unchargeable time e.g traveling, so they can't then charge that at the normal rate plus mileage.

Bullshit ripoff artists......thats even worse than a sparky

[Taz]

What are "moonfish"??

[lb99]

What are "moonfish"??

http://www.conceptimages.com/a_Images/hms/condoms/hmh01-02-10-condom.jpg

boss always calls em moonfish, dunno why.......

[Gareth51]

Triple charging?
Mileage is to cover vehicle costs, not the cost of the plumber sitting on his arse in traffic.
So lets see, you have an half hour job. You have to take a call, perhaps select your gear and tools, perhaps collect gear from a plumbing supplies shop travel to and from the site fill out time sheets and write up invoices for each job. Around Auckland at least you can spend 3/4 of an hour per trip each way. You are lucky if you can fit in 4 half hour jobs in an 8hr day. Ok, maybe 5, Yet you still find it unreasonable for him to charge his time for the trip. Would you be happy working for 8 hrs and getting paid for 2.5? Because if so, let me know, I got a job for you.


Totally agree with you,and don't forget the cost of not getting paid.
Won't belong before you'll need to pre pay for a tradesman...and call him sir just to get him to come to your house