Unitec disgrace

[Grahameeboy]

A guy in a wheelchair (motorcycle accident) has just started a Electrician's Course at Unitec.

Rather than relly on ACC he wants to get a job...good on ya geezer

Unitec have no disabilty services at alll. Bad enough that students had to carry him up the stairs but when he needed a leak he was told to go into a corner in the classroom and use a drink bottle.

I am sure the guy won't say anything because he is just glad too be on the course but geeze.

"That is our people today"

[firefighter]

that's fucken disgusting.......i'd have put the bottle on the teachers desk and "accidentally" tipped it over.....

I thought shit like that was illegal.....like 20 years ago?

Actually.....they ARE breaking a few laws there, is there an official plan for him to escape in an emergency?
.....He needs to be able to get out un-assisted......(this is a fucken fact) if he can't, then they're breaking the law.....and now that he's on the course they also can't exclude him now because that's discrimmination.....

[Grahameeboy]

that's fucken disgusting.......i'd have put the bottle on the teachers desk and "accidentally" tipped it over.....

I thought shit like that was illegal.....like 20 years ago?

It probably is which is why the Disabilty and Health Commissioner will get a calll and maybe the Herald.

I would swap the drinks bottles...:shifty:

[Nasty]

They will have a disbility liaison ... if you want I can dig around - its easy enough to make noise if they don't - and they have to have one for exams and stuff for people like me ... as that is absolutely disgusting ... and not acceptable on any level.

[Grahameeboy]

that's fucken disgusting.......i'd have put the bottle on the teachers desk and "accidentally" tipped it over.....

I thought shit like that was illegal.....like 20 years ago?

It probably is which is why the Disabilty and Health Commissioner will get a calll and maybe the Herald.

Not actually the Teachers fault...it is the management

I would swap the drinks bottles...:shifty:

[Grahameeboy]

They will have a disbility liaison ... if you want I can dig around - its easy enough to make noise if they don't - and they have to have one for exams and stuff for people like me ... as that is absolutely disgusting ... and not acceptable on any level.

Believe it or not they do...bloody lot of good they were

[Mully]

I thought all public buildings had to have ramps and the like?

I know a lot of Unitec's buildings are old, but my understanding was that they all had to be retrofitted.

Totally unacceptable.

BTW, good on your mate.

[Nasty]

Believe it or not they do...bloody lot of good they were

Its about pushing their buttons and when that fails going 'public' .. if he is just accepting of this substandard service that is his choice .. but others should not be accepting of it.

[vifferman]

I thought all public buildings had to have ramps and the like?
OOh!
Our office is lovely - has two (2!) toilets with wheelchair / disabled access. :yes:

Shame we're on the first floor and there's no elevator.... :crazy:

[Mom]

Utter disgrace. Good on you Grahameeyboy.

[Mully]

OOh!
Our office is lovely - has two (2!) toilets with wheelchair / disabled access. :yes:

Shame we're on the first floor and there's no elevator.... :crazy:

OOOOOhhhhh, aren't you fancy

They had to add a little wheelchair lift in on our building, to get up to the ground floor (which is about 5 steps off the ground), and then then can take the proper lifts to the other floors. Then each floor has disabled toilets, etc.

[Tank]

I thought that this was going to be another KB rant - you know the biased waaaaaing (tm) over some trivial issue that nobody really gives a shit about - and infact it means nothing to anyone including the OP anyway.

But this is terrible.

This is the kind of shit that should have stopped years ago.

Top marks for the guy to having the balls to carry on. And to the other trainees who are doing what they can do do help / make it as easy as possible for the guy.


FFS - can the training not be moved to another class on the ground floor etc?

[The Stranger]

that's fucken disgusting.......i'd have put the bottle on the teachers desk and "accidentally" tipped it over.....

I thought shit like that was illegal.....like 20 years ago?


It probably was, however much of unitec is way older than 20yrs



Actually.....they ARE breaking a few laws there, is there an official plan for him to escape in an emergency?
.....He needs to be able to get out un-assisted......(this is a fucken fact) if he can't, then they're breaking the law.....and now that he's on the course they also can't exclude him now because that's discrimmination.....

Not many laws passed are retrospective, particularly as they relate to construction.

[firefighter]

It probably was, however much of unitec is way older than 20yrs

Yep, it still has to comply.........they took the poles away at firestations because they are "too dangerous" (it's safer to rush down stairs- thanks OSH!)



Not many laws passed are retrospective, particularly as they relate to construction.

That does'nt matter, in a public building everybody has to be able to escape from it un-assissted, no matter it's age- trust me i've just asked my boss......our understanding is that plans have to be put in place/proceedures for his escape, in the event of a fire/etc.....and he has to be able to leave on his own accord.....

I won't put up references etc but even if it's an 18th century historical building there has to be means of escape for the occupants.

[pritch]

There was a thing on the TV News years ago when Luxton (?) (a dim bulb if ever there was one) was Minister. The clip showed a paraplegic kid being dragged up stairs by classmates.

The Minister said words to the effect,
"This is therapeutic, I saw his feet move."

I'da hoped we'd moved on just a bit...

[Grahameeboy]

FFS - can the training not be moved to another class on the ground floor etc?

No because of the equipment needed...still the toilet issue as well

[Okey Dokey]

No, this sort of thing is just not on. It is degrading to the man (and good on him for undertaking the training, BTW). Imagine if the person in the wheelchair were female!

Hope something can be done to help your friend's situation, grahameboy.

[Badjelly]

Time for the site libertarians to come on and tell us that all the laws relating to disabled access are excessive and interfere with personal freedom.

...

No?

Seriously, I am surprised that an educational facility can get away with such poor facilities.

[firefighter]

No because of the equipment needed...still the toilet issue as well

You talking about the north shore unitec?

[enigma51]

No, this sort of thing is just not on. It is degrading to the man (and good on him for undertaking the training, BTW). Imagine if the person in the wheelchair were female!

Hope something can be done to help your friend's situation, grahameboy.

They dont teach women .... there place is in the kitchen :Pokey:



Graeme i think you should give the herald a call just cause. Its not the only case where people who dont want to be dependent on acc etc get shafted.

[Grahameeboy]

You talking about the north shore unitec?

Nop...Mt Allberty one somewhere near there

[Marmoot]

"That is our people today"

I think you meant "that's what we used to be" ?

I reckon that's more like the 'harden-up kiwi attitude' some in here have always been talking about.

People nowadays are generally softcocks who injured their heads when they bump onto a stack of soft tofu, and wouldn't hesitate to sue a rock over a bump if the rock has anything remotely resembling a stack of dollar bills.

We used to even tell guys to march/run/jump despite missing arms and legs. I think it's called world war or something.

Not sure which one I prefer. Just highlighting the incorrect generation reference in your post. :)

[Grahameeboy]

I think you meant "that's what we used to be" ?

I reckon that's more like the 'harden-up kiwi attitude' some in here have always been talking about.

People nowadays are generally softcocks who injured their heads when they bump onto a stack of soft tofu, and wouldn't hesitate to sue a rock over a bump if the rock has anything remotely resembling a stack of dollar bills.

We used to even tell guys to march/run/jump despite missing arms and legs. I think it's called world war or something.

Not sure which one I prefer. Just highlighting the incorrect generation reference in your post. :)

No, was being current...

[Finn]

This is typical of a University. All academic and no brains.

Sandal clad starts with C.

[Marmoot]

No, was being current...

Then I suggest A great way to improve your life (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y)

[The Pastor]

Good old unitec. Quality educaton

[Grahameeboy]

This is typical of a University. All academic and no brains.

Sandal clad starts with C.

Actually the lecturer is the one who told me and is one of the few female electricians in NZ and does have brains...they have a Disability Liason Officer who clearly has neither of this qualifications

[Grahameeboy]

Then I suggest A great way to improve your life (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y)

Still puzzled as to relevance of what you said in relation to what I said...are you suggesting the disabled guy should HTFU and be happy to urinate in a coke bottle...

[Grahameeboy]

They dont teach women .... there place is in the kitchen :Pokey:



Graeme i think you should give the herald a call just cause. Its not the only case where people who dont want to be dependent on acc etc get shafted.

Herald called........are looking into it

[sunhuntin]

all new buildings have to have disabled access. the place i work has just built two on-site classrooms for carpentry students. during the year, they build a house, from the ground up. consent for the classrooms would not have been granted if the HOD had not put in a ramp and disabled toilet.

can your friend switch to another course with more suited grounds/access?

[The Stranger]

Herald called........are looking into it

For fuck sake, you moaning pack of PC wankers.
How about you all kick in $20,000 each and get an elevator and toilet installed. So the original designers didn't count on a crippled sparky. But they didn't allow for a legless fireman, scaffolder, roofer or builder either. Best we add a few mil to your contribution and ensure all bases are covered.
So maybe someone else should pay - who then? The govt (i.e. you)? Or Unitec. That's better, students are rich eh, they don't mind additional loan so long as johnny feels normal.

Everyone has thier crosses to bear.
Get over it and get on with life.
Sure it's coont, but that's life, it aint fair. If you are to make it fair to all you have a hell of a task on your hands.
So he had an accident, why does he get special treatment?
Some here accidentally got cancer, Does the world get changed for them? -Their world changes for sure.
We go to soooooo much cost and trouble to integrate cripples, loons, whack jobs etc into society and make them feel "normal". Hello, they're NOT fucken normal!

[enigma51]

For fuck sake, you moaning pack of PC wankers.
How about you all kick in $20,000 each and get an elevator and toilet installed. So the original designers didn't count on a crippled sparky. But they didn't allow for a legless fireman, scaffolder, roofer or builder either. Best we add a few mil to your contribution and ensure all bases are covered.
So maybe someone else should pay - who then? The govt (i.e. you)? Or Unitec. That's better, students are rich eh, they don't mind additional loan so long as johnny feels normal.

Everyone has thier crosses to bear.
Get over it and get on with life.
Sure it's coont, but that's life, it aint fair. If you are to make it fair to all you have a hell of a task on your hands.
So he had an accident, why does he get special treatment?
Some here accidentally got cancer, Does the world get changed for them? -Their world changes for sure.
We go to soooooo much cost and trouble to integrate cripples, loons, whack jobs etc into society and make them feel "normal". Hello, they're NOT fucken normal!

I do see your point but.

I would rather have the guy go and study and get a job than sit on acc for the rest of his life. The money spend on giving him the same rights as you and me is alot less than the money we will be paying in taxes and levy's

[Finn]

Actually the lecturer is the one who told me and is one of the few female electricians in NZ and does have brains...

Never met a female sparky. I bet she still can't change a light bulb though.

[enigma51]

Never met a female sparky. I bet she still can't change a light bulb though.

She must have been tired of having to phone someone to fix the stove

[Grahameeboy]

For fuck sake, you moaning pack of PC wankers.
How about you all kick in $20,000 each and get an elevator and toilet installed. So the original designers didn't count on a crippled sparky. But they didn't allow for a legless fireman, scaffolder, roofer or builder either. Best we add a few mil to your contribution and ensure all bases are covered.
So maybe someone else should pay - who then? The govt (i.e. you)? Or Unitec. That's better, students are rich eh, they don't mind additional loan so long as johnny feels normal.

Everyone has thier crosses to bear.
Get over it and get on with life.
Sure it's coont, but that's life, it aint fair. If you are to make it fair to all you have a hell of a task on your hands.
So he had an accident, why does he get special treatment?
Some here accidentally got cancer, Does the world get changed for them? -Their world changes for sure.
We go to soooooo much cost and trouble to integrate cripples, loons, whack jobs etc into society and make them feel "normal". Hello, they're NOT fucken normal!

I know....why didn't I just ask for a loan or sell raffle tickets for Nats needs

Powered Wheelchair - $40,000
Standing Frame - $6,000
Hi/Low Chair - $4,000
Bath lounger - $2,000
Toilet Seat - $6,000
Hospital Bed - $12,000
Mods to House - $30,000
Mods to school - $211,000
Mobility Van - $25,000
Total - $336,000

Silly me for thinking I should get help and being PC / Selfish

Define "Normal"...a criminal who is not a cripple is not "Normal" so what does that make this guy or Nats..."sub-normal"

Nats is normal, she has a brain, 6 with the mental ability of a 10 year old...and if she lives long enough to get a job she will probably be on a good earner and look after her old man who has been unselfish and sacrificed a lot to be her Dad and she gets on with life but does not want to be beaten by "Normal" people...

This guy had an accident yet you are suggesting (indirectly) that he has less rights than a prisoner...

You are forgiven...

[Grahameeboy]

Never met a female sparky. I bet she still can't change a light bulb though.

She is Certified and does all types of Electronics...gets green card invites from America...and unlke you she does not need a ladder to change the bulb in a bedside cabinet lamp...:Punk:

[Grahameeboy]

She must have been tired of having to phone someone to fix the stove

She can fix those too.....

[Grahameeboy]

Well the Management are in a panic and the shit has really hit the fan at Unitec following contact by NZ Herald journalist...

Fuck PC.........:done:...HTFU and take action to improve lives.

[The Stranger]

I know....why didn't I just ask for a loan or sell raffle tickets for Nats needs

Powered Wheelchair - $40,000
Standing Frame - $6,000
Hi/Low Chair - $4,000
Bath lounger - $2,000
Toilet Seat - $6,000
Hospital Bed - $12,000
Mods to House - $30,000
Mods to school - $211,000
Mobility Van - $25,000
Total - $336,000

Silly me for thinking I should get help and being PC / Selfish

Define "Normal"...a criminal who is not a cripple is not "Normal" so what does that make this guy or Nats..."sub-normal"

Nats is normal, she has a brain, 6 with the mental ability of a 10 year old...and if she lives long enough to get a job she will probably be on a good earner and look after her old man who has been unselfish and sacrificed a lot to be her Dad and she gets on with life but does not want to be beaten by "Normal" people...

This guy had an accident yet you are suggesting (indirectly) that he has less rights than a prisoner...

You are forgiven...

now this is exactly why it is dangerous for somone associated with an injured party to represent them or their cause.

They loose all perspective on the matter.

But you are forgiven...

[skidMark]

A guy in a wheelchair (motorcycle accident) has just started a Electrician's Course at Unitec.

Rather than relly on ACC he wants to get a job...good on ya geezer

Unitec have no disabilty services at alll. Bad enough that students had to carry him up the stairs but when he needed a leak he was told to go into a corner in the classroom and use a drink bottle.

I am sure the guy won't say anything because he is just glad too be on the course but geeze.

"That is our people today"


Lets blame cages and global warming too. :rolleyes:

[Grahameeboy]

now this is exactly why it is dangerous for somone associated with an injured party to represent them or their cause.

They loose all perspective on the matter.

But you are forgiven...

I understand the perspective fully...will pop in for a cuppa next time I am passing....

[Grahameeboy]

Lets blame cages and global warming too. :rolleyes:

And you want too write literature......:gob:

[The Stranger]

I understand the perspective fully...will pop in for a cuppa next time I am passing....

By all means good sir.

[Grahameeboy]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10560073

[Swoop]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10560073
So you called the Herald?

[enigma51]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10560073

Good job mate.

[Grahameeboy]

So you called the Herald?

Mmmm...yes......bright and breezy this morning I see

[Grahameeboy]

page a5...long column of herald

[Marmoot]

Well the Management are in a panic and the shit has really hit the fan at Unitec following contact by NZ Herald journalist...

Fuck PC.........:done:...HTFU and take action to improve lives.

HTFU. Yeah Right....

The society needs to HTFU and stop sensationalising about these type of issues instead.

I'd love to see the guy becomes an electrician and changing lightbulbs on the ceiling, crawling on the attic space, and wiring a building from top to bottom without taking all his clients to the newspaper for not providing him with disability lifts and having crawlspace where his wheelchair wouldn't fit.

Know what? I'll probably apply for a prostitute job at the White House later and sue them for discrimination if they don't accept me just because I'm ugly.

FFS....what's next? Blind guy wants to be a commercial liner pilot? I dare you to have the first flight with him.

Each to their calling, mate. Pigs can't fly and elephants shouldn't jump off the cliffs.

[Mom]

I dont think this should be boiled down to whether this man will become a sparkie in the traditional sense of the word at all. Here is a bloke educating himself in a field he is obviously intereted in, who alone knows what he will end up doing with his qualification, the fact that he is actually doing something apart from withering away at home should be applauded.

This is to do with a system failure at Unitec that placed him in the appalling situation he is in. His disability was not picked up on until a complaint was made about the lack of facilities. Seems to me they are now doing something to improve this situation for him.

Thank goodness he is a guy, I can not imagine the humiliation a female would have felt having to take a piss in the corner of a classroom. Totally and completely unacceptable no matter your gender.

Having said that though, the disabled access requirements do create huge problems for many businesses. Costs of retro-fitting are enormous and edged with all sorts of problems (degree angles of ramps for example) that actually make providing access damn near impossible. I have been in the situation on a Board of trustees for a childrens camp, where we simply could not afford to make some of the changes required of us even with free labour, materials at cost and so on, as the building and where it was sited prevented us from compliing fully for the entire camp facility. We ended up creating a stand alone one bedroom unit seperately from the main camp building and providing a ramp up to the ground floor of the main building for access. Effectively separating some kids from the rest because of their disability, the complete opposite of what is supposed to be an inclusive focus.

I hope Unitec get something sorted for this fella sooner rather than later.

[Grahameeboy]

HTFU. Yeah Right....

The society needs to HTFU and stop sensationalising about these type of issues instead.

I'd love to see the guy becomes an electrician and changing lightbulbs on the ceiling, crawling on the attic space, and wiring a building from top to bottom without taking all his clients to the newspaper for not providing him with disability lifts and having crawlspace where his wheelchair wouldn't fit.

Know what? I'll probably apply for a prostitute job at the White House later and sue them for discrimination if they don't accept me just because I'm ugly.

FFS....what's next? Blind guy wants to be a commercial liner pilot? I dare you to have the first flight with him.

Each to their calling, mate. Pigs can't fly and elephants shouldn't jump off the cliffs.

You Plonker...he can be a service electrician in a shop that does repairs...such a narrowminded view..."That's NZ Today"

I tell you what, get a bowl at work, go into a corner of the room and piss in it all week and let me know how it feels...and if you need a shit...well nuff said.

[Grahameeboy]

I dont think this should be boiled down to whether this man will become a sparkie in the traditional sense of the word at all. Here is a bloke educating himself in a field he is obviously intereted in, who alone knows what he will end up doing with his qualification, the fact that he is actually doing something apart from withering away at home should be applauded.

This is to do with a system failure at Unitec that placed him in the appalling situation he is in. His disability was not picked up on until a complaint was made about the lack of facilities. Seems to me they are now doing something to improve this situation for him.

Thank goodness he is a guy, I can not imagine the humiliation a female would have felt having to take a piss in the corner of a classroom. Totally and completely unacceptable no matter your gender.

Having said that though, the disabled access requirements do create huge problems for many businesses. Costs of retro-fitting are enormous and edged with all sorts of problems (degree angles of ramps for example) that actually make providing access damn near impossible. I have been in the situation on a Board of trustees for a childrens camp, where we simply could not afford to make some of the changes required of us even with free labour, materials at cost and so on, as the building and where it was sited prevented us from compliing fully for the entire camp facility. We ended up creating a stand alone one bedroom unit seperately from the main camp building and providing a ramp up to the ground floor of the main building for access. Effectively separating some kids from the rest because of their disability, the complete opposite of what is supposed to be an inclusive focus.

I hope Unitec get something sorted for this fella sooner rather than later.

I agree in your case Mom cost is a factor but with my home and Educational Institutions funding is there.

I spoke too the Media guy at Unitec and explained the OSH issues for the staff and students and the fact that they need a fire plan for evacuation. The toilet has a dividing wall which is not retaining, they have a building dept who could sort this out at the weekend...his response was that was a safety issue...what about the disabled guy..is he not more important I said...they are equal he said..geeze...

Also explained this to the TEC President.

[Marmoot]

I tell you what, get a bowl at work, go into a corner of the room and piss in it all week and let me know how it feels...and if you need a shit...well nuff said.

Why should I? I chose my workplace based on what I can and can't do.

If I choose one that I can't do, that's my own fault and I wouldn't expect the world to change it for me.

[Grahameeboy]

Why should I? I chose my workplace based on what I can and can't do.

If I choose one that I can't do, that's my own fault and I wouldn't expect the world to change it for me.

With that attitude I would not expect the world to change for you and clearly this guy has a better attitude...you are not listening..he can be trained to be an electrician and get a job...

This guy may have no use of his legs but he clearly has more get up and go than you do.

I rarely bit back but come on geezer...

[Marmoot]

With that attitude I would not expect the world to change for you and clearly this guy has a better attitude...you are not listening..he can be trained to be an electrician and get a job...

This guy may have no use of his legs but he clearly has more get up and go than you do.

I rarely bit back but come on geezer...

No, seriously. The next big thing would be a law university for the deaf-and-mute.

What about the mentally disabled? Why doesn't law or engineering courses have materials that suit the mentally disabled people?

I'm not putting them down, and I do have respect on those who really want to progress, but oh come on. The political correctness of crucifying anyone who doesn't have a disabled toilet is just a bit insane.

If Unitec hadn't accepted him to the course just because of his disabilities, now that's something different.

[Mom]

I agree in your case Mom cost is a factor but with my home and Educational Institutions funding is there.

I spoke too the Media guy at Unitec and explained the OSH issues for the staff and students and the fact that they need a fire plan for evacuation. The toilet has a dividing wall which is not retaining, they have a building dept who could sort this out at the weekend...his response was that was a safety issue...what about the disabled guy..is he not more important I said...they are equal he said..geeze...

Also explained this to the TEC President.

Believe it or not GB this camp was owned by the Ministry of Education, but there was no assistance financial or otherwise forthcoming. The MOE has policies and rules, as do schools regarding Health & Safety, OSH and any number of things. Schools were saying they could not come to our camp because we did not meet the policies of their school and the regulations they were required to meet, we had to upgrade, and find the funds ourselves. Thank goodness for funding organisations like Lotto and ASB etc, we would have been sunk with outthem.

[Grahameeboy]

No, seriously. The next big thing would be a law university for the deaf-and-mute.

Pardon?

What about the mentally disabled? Why doesn't law or engineering courses have materials that suit the mentally disabled people?

Simple because a mentally disabled person...excluding some....would not have the intellect to do the course..no different to say me as I know I coulld not do a Law Degree / Eng. Degree.

This is not discrimination. This guy is different because he has a brain so has te ability to learn.

I'm not putting them down, and I do have respect on those who really want to progress, but oh come on. The political correctness of crucifying anyone who doesn't have a disabled toilet is just a bit insane.

No it is not. Nothing about being PC, just basic Human Rights

If Unitec hadn't accepted him to the course just because of his disabilities, now that's something different.

Worse, yes. But then you are surely arguing your own point?

...................

[Finn]

Well done GB.

Now can you please focus your attention on the traffic problems?

[Grahameeboy]

Believe it or not GB this camp was owned by the Ministry of Education, but there was no assistance financial or otherwise forthcoming. The MOE has policies and rules, as do schools regarding Health & Safety, OSH and any number of things. Schools were saying they could not come to our camp because we did not meet the policies of their school and the regulations they were required to meet, we had to upgrade, and find the funds ourselves. Thank goodness for funding organisations like Lotto and ASB etc, we would have been sunk with outthem.

You should employe me...Nats was the first NZ child aged 4 to get funding for a hi/low chair for her wheelchair...normal age criteria 14...I even appealed and wn...she was also the first 2 year old to get funding for her wheelchair.

Was this a while ago? I know I am a passionate person and when it comes to things like this I don't give up..

[Grahameeboy]

Well done GB.

Now can you please focus your attention on the traffic problems?

What traffic problem

[Finn]

What traffic problem

The traffic problem when I take my car to work.

[Marmoot]

No, seriously. The next big thing would be a law university for the deaf-and-mute.

Pardon?

What about the mentally disabled? Why doesn't law or engineering courses have materials that suit the mentally disabled people?

Simple because a mentally disabled person...excluding some....would not have the intellect to do the course..no different to say me as I know I coulld not do a Law Degree / Eng. Degree.

This is not discrimination. This guy is different because he has a brain so has te ability to learn.


Saying mentally disabled person to not have the intellect is just like saying a physically disabled person to not have the legs. If one is discrimination then the other is too.

I wasn't talking about the university not accepting them here though. I was merely pointing out why law universities don't have mentally-disabled-friendly materials ready, if we assume engineering department should have disabled facilities ready. Both cases involve disabled allowances and university departments, so crucify one or crucify none.
If the law university is acceptable to not have been prepared for mentally-disabled student, maybe it should be acceptable for the engineering department not to be prepared for disabled student either.
Improvements would great, sure! But there shouldn't be anything "disgraceful" about it in the first place if the original design didn't take into account all the anomalies which may occur at later stages.



I'm not putting them down, and I do have respect on those who really want to progress, but oh come on. The political correctness of crucifying anyone who doesn't have a disabled toilet is just a bit insane.

No it is not. Nothing about being PC, just basic Human Rights


Basic Human Rights would lead to recommendations and improvements. Media circus, sensationalism or legal proceedings belong to Political Correctness category.



If Unitec hadn't accepted him to the course just because of his disabilities, now that's something different.

Worse, yes. But then you are surely arguing your own point?

Not arguing my own point. Read the first paragraph above. Disabled toilet unavailability (i.e., lack of facility) is an oversight, pissing in the bowl is his own choice (Unitec didn't force him to), and nothing discriminating or disgraceful about Unitec's original design, although improvements would be definitely recommended.
Refusing course admittance (i.e., not allowing someone to try) due to disability, however, is definitely discrimination.
There is a fundamental difference between the two issues.

I think the society and media are overreacting. That's what I mean by the society needs to HTFU and stop sensationalising this as juicy news.

[Grahameeboy]

The traffic problem when I take my car to work.

You must be the only motorcyclist in Auckland who takes his car to work then....:lol:

[Marmoot]

You must be the only motorcyclist in Auckland who takes his car to work then....:lol:

:Oi: 10characters

[Grahameeboy]

Saying mentally disabled person to not have the intellect is just like saying a physically disabled person to not have the legs. If one is discrimination then the other is too.

No because you are talking about different types of disability which have different issues, pros and cons, possible outcomes etc

I wasn't talking about the university not accepting them here though. I was merely pointing out why law universities don't have mentally-disabled-friendly materials ready, if we assume engineering department should have disabled facilities ready. Both cases involve disabled allowances and university departments, so crucify one or crucify none.

Facilities and Learning Material are 2 different things. Take a DS person...they would not be able too be a Lawyer...or an engineer responsible for people...horse for courses still applies and is not discriminating...otherwise ends up being reverse discrimination

If the law university is acceptable to not have been prepared for mentally-disabled student, maybe it should be acceptable for the engineering department not to be prepared for disabled student either.
Improvements would great, sure! But there shouldn't be anything "disgraceful" about it in the first place if the original design didn't take into account all the anomalies which may occur at later stages.



Basic Human Rights would lead to recommendations and improvements. Media circus, sensationalism or legal proceedings belong to Political Correctness category.

And how do these things happen...


Not arguing my own point. Read the first paragraph above. Disabled toilet unavailability (i.e., lack of facility) is an oversight, pissing in the bowl is his own choice (Unitec didn't force him to), and nothing discriminating or disgraceful about Unitec's original design, although improvements would be definitely recommended.

Why was bowl his own choice...what other choice did he have other than peeing in his pants...

Refusing course admittance (i.e., not allowing someone to try) due to disability, however, is definitely discrimination.
There is a fundamental difference between the two issues.

Agree but the reverse can happen if you give someone the chance when their disability prevents a successful outcome anyway. Better to give them something they can do well and give them satisfaction etc

I think the society and media are overreacting. That's what I mean by the society needs to HTFU and stop sensationalising this as juicy news.

Well I had to HTFU for my Daughter...that's life..if you need something you will not do it being apathetic...at end of the day my taking the cross, the Herald doing an article has got what this guy needs so as far as I am concerned the right outcome has been achieved for him and others to come...whatever it takes

..........................

[Grahameeboy]

:Oi: 10characters

No is was aimed at Finn's comment on a previous thread...I was just reversing things

[The Stranger]

Saying mentally disabled person to not have the intellect is just like saying a physically disabled person to not have the legs. If one is discrimination then the other is too.



Lets face it Marmoot, this thread is not about a cripple wanting to become an electrician, or about Unitec.

It's so as people can assuage their white middle class guilt and at a very attractive cost to themselves - nothing.

It's a win win situation, warm fuzzies for free.

[Marmoot]

Basic Human Rights would lead to recommendations and improvements. Media circus, sensationalism or legal proceedings belong to Political Correctness category.

And how do these things happen...

Oh don't be naive....




Why was bowl his own choice...what other choice did he have other than peeing in his pants...

Crutches can go up stairs and through small doorways.




Refusing course admittance (i.e., not allowing someone to try) due to disability, however, is definitely discrimination.
There is a fundamental difference between the two issues.

Agree but the reverse can happen if you give someone the chance when their disability prevents a successful outcome anyway. Better to give them something they can do well and give them satisfaction etc

I believe if they genuinely believe they should try then you should let them try. It's better to die knowing you tried than to live knowing you should've.


if you need something you will not do it being apathetic

Good for you. But let's be honest, you don't really think NZ Herald cares a cent about this man do you?
Hell, the editors would probably screw their own daughters and make a juicy news about it if they are allowed to keep their jobs afterwards.

"Hey boss, a disabled man had to pee in a bowl" - "Good news!!"
"Hey boss, a cop shot an innocent man" - "Good news!!"
"Hey boss, fuel price dropped by 4 cents" - "That's nothing. Just make a paragraph and stuff it online. I'm not gonna put that on the front page"

I need a barf bag.....

[Marmoot]

Lets face it Marmoot, this thread is not about a cripple wanting to become an electrician, or about Unitec.

If it were, I wouldn't be posting here would I?

[Jorja]

I have a 10 year old who at times can't walk. I struggle to carry him on bad days. I have even seen him dragging himself across the floor to get to the bathroom. Fortunately he has more good days than bad.

I got a phone call from school one day to come and pick him up. I had been to see them in the morning and carried him to his seat in class. The other kids had helped carry him around most of the morning and they had a physio therapist at school who had tried to help but it was putting alot of extra pressure on the teacher and other students.

I guess I could have said that the school had to look after him as every child deserves an education but I was happy that they had tried to make it work.

Yes everone deserves to be able to further their education in which ever field they choose and yes most old buildings are not fitted with wheelchair access. Mostly because of the cost involved.
Did the Unitec know when this guy applied he was in a wheel chair? If not it was up to him to inform them and ask about facilities. If they did they should have sat down with him before the course started and decided how they were going to accomodate him.

When we looked at moving into a two storey house the first thing we did was sit down with our son and discuss how to make it work for all of us.

[Grahameeboy]

Oh don't be naive....

Based on personal experience I am not.




Crutches can go up stairs and through small doorways.

He is in a wheelchair



I believe if they genuinely believe they should try then you should let them try. It's better to die knowing you tried than to live knowing you should've.

An old adage...



Good for you. But let's be honest, you don't really think NZ Herald cares a cent about this man do you?

Well they wrote a story about it

Hell, the editors would probably screw their own daughters and make a juicy news about it if they are allowed to keep their jobs afterwards.

"Hey boss, a disabled man had to pee in a bowl" - "Good news!!"
"Hey boss, a cop shot an innocent man" - "Good news!!"
"Hey boss, fuel price dropped by 4 cents" - "That's nothing. Just make a paragraph and stuff it online. I'm not gonna put that on the front page"

I need a barf bag.....

Eh?



.....................

[Grahameeboy]

I have a 10 year old who at times can't walk. I struggle to carry him on bad days. I have even seen him dragging himself across the floor to get to the bathroom. Fortunately he has more good days than bad.

I got a phone call from school one day to come and pick him up. I had been to see them in the morning and carried him to his seat in class. The other kids had helped carry him around most of the morning and they had a physio therapist at school who had tried to help but it was putting alot of extra pressure on the teacher and other students.

I guess I could have said that the school had to look after him as every child deserves an education but I was happy that they had tried to make it work.

Yes everone deserves to be able to further their education in which ever field they choose and yes most old buildings are not fitted with wheelchair access. Mostly because of the cost involved.
Did the Unitec know when this guy applied he was in a wheel chair? If not it was up to him to inform them and ask about facilities. If they did they should have sat down with him before the course started and decided how they were going to accomodate him.

When we looked at moving into a two storey house the first thing we did was sit down with our son and discuss how to make it work for all of us.

What I was trying to explain is complex.

Yes they did know he was in a wheelchair. It makes sense to me just hard to get out

You are in Massey...how old is your Boy...is it just physical. Does he have a wheelchair? Would he be able to use a powered wheelchair...

Offer to help please as it sound like you are not getting what you should be getting... pm me..

[Marmoot]

Crutches can go up stairs and through small doorways.

He is in a wheelchair

I know he's in a wheelchair. Is he glued in though?




I believe if they genuinely believe they should try then you should let them try. It's better to die knowing you tried than to live knowing you should've.

An old adage...
One that is true. No one should think about how to live your life except yourself.




Good for you. But let's be honest, you don't really think NZ Herald cares a cent about this man do you?

Well they wrote a story about it

Hell, the editors would probably screw their own daughters and make a juicy news about it if they are allowed to keep their jobs afterwards.

"Hey boss, a disabled man had to pee in a bowl" - "Good news!!"
"Hey boss, a cop shot an innocent man" - "Good news!!"
"Hey boss, fuel price dropped by 4 cents" - "That's nothing. Just make a paragraph and stuff it online. I'm not gonna put that on the front page"

I need a barf bag.....

Eh?


You are naive....

[Littleman]

Lets face it Marmoot, this thread is not about a cripple wanting to become an electrician, or about Unitec.

It's so as people can assuage their white middle class guilt and at a very attractive cost to themselves - nothing.

It's a win win situation, warm fuzzies for free.

Grahameeboy = Bono

[Jorja]

What I was trying to explain is complex.

Yes they did know he was in a wheelchair. It makes sense to me just hard to get out

You are in Massey...how old is your Boy...is it just physical. Does he have a wheelchair? Would he be able to use a powered wheelchair...

Offer to help please as it sound like you are not getting what you should be getting... pm me..

Thanks for the offer Graham but actually 99% of the time he is a healthy active 10 year old. he has arthritis and on a bad day he can't put any weight on his knees. I did get him a cane and we have a pair of crutches but mostly he is fine so long as he doesn't over do things.
There is a small chance he will grow out of it. As for a wheel chair, I prefer him to stay active. So long as we keep it under control, he should never need one.

What annoys me is lack of funding for physio cause that would greatly benefit him.

[Swoop]

I'd love to see the guy becomes an electrician and changing lightbulbs on the ceiling, crawling on the attic space, and wiring a building from top to bottom without taking all his clients to the newspaper for not providing him with disability lifts and having crawlspace where his wheelchair wouldn't fit.
There are quite a lot of opportunities for "electrical" people who spend their day sitting, at a bench, fixing electrical things. Society has accepted the "cheaper is better" approach, so stuff breaks down more often.
This is probably an excellent opportunity for the chap. Training / re-training and all of that.

[Marmoot]

There are quite a lot of opportunities for "electrical" people who spend their day sitting, at a bench, fixing electrical things. Society has accepted the "cheaper is better" approach, so stuff breaks down more often.
This is probably an excellent opportunity for the chap. Training / re-training and all of that.

True that. Just need to get a good forklift to get the 60" projector TVs up the bench.

[Grahameeboy]

I know he's in a wheelchair. Is he glued in though?

By gravity...and the fact cannot weight bear so crutches no good

One that is true. No one should think about how to live your life except yourself.

True but in my situation I have learned to ask for help


You are naive....

Fair enough...I can live with that

..................................

[Grahameeboy]

Thanks for the offer Graham but actually 99% of the time he is a healthy active 10 year old. he has arthritis and on a bad day he can't put any weight on his knees. I did get him a cane and we have a pair of crutches but mostly he is fine so long as he doesn't over do things.
There is a small chance he will grow out of it. As for a wheel chair, I prefer him to stay active. So long as we keep it under control, he should never need one.

What annoys me is lack of funding for physio cause that would greatly benefit him.

Cool...

Physio...what you will find is that he M. of Health prefer family intervention which is the case with Nats although I just have to do stretches as her condition is a deteriorating one.

Try this link http://www.disabilityfunding.co.nz/internal.asp?CategoryID=100008

Am pretty certain you can get funding. Usually find you have to find sources...have you asked the Dr...Call the Wilson Home....

[Grahameeboy]

True that. Just need to get a good forklift to get the 60" projector TVs up the bench.

Do you find it hard to be ignorant...

[Grahameeboy]

Lets face it Marmoot, this thread is not about a cripple wanting to become an electrician, or about Unitec.

It's so as people can assuage their white middle class guilt and at a very attractive cost to themselves - nothing.

It's a win win situation, warm fuzzies for free.

Did you forget your weetbix this morning....

[Forest]

HTFU. Yeah Right....

The society needs to HTFU and stop sensationalising about these type of issues instead.

I'd love to see the guy becomes an electrician and changing lightbulbs on the ceiling, crawling on the attic space, and wiring a building from top to bottom without taking all his clients to the newspaper for not providing him with disability lifts and having crawlspace where his wheelchair wouldn't fit.

Know what? I'll probably apply for a prostitute job at the White House later and sue them for discrimination if they don't accept me just because I'm ugly.

FFS....what's next? Blind guy wants to be a commercial liner pilot? I dare you to have the first flight with him.

Each to their calling, mate. Pigs can't fly and elephants shouldn't jump off the cliffs.

Christ you're despicable.

You also have some odd ideas about what electricians actually do for a living.

[Marmoot]

Do you find it hard to be ignorant...


For a caring person like me? You have no idea...

Glad I have you as my friend though.

[Grahameeboy]

For a caring person like me? You have no idea...

Glad I have you as my friend though.

I don't bear malice...just could not resist so apologies but life is not as black and white as you think is all that I am saying.

[Marmoot]

I don't bear malice...just could not resist so apologies but life is not as black and white as you think is all that I am saying.

No apologies necessary. It was a discussion, ideas are exchanged. Fair game.

Agree life is all different shade of gray.

You were coming from disabled person's point of view.
I came from a person sick of society's inverse-discrimination, inverse-racism, and media's "bad news is good news".

I support your point on disabled facilities in universities. I don't support your view that what Unitec's did was disgraceful, but rather an oversight to an anomaly, and I definitely loathe the Herald's Jacquiline Smith expose.

We should go for a ride sometime and continue the discussion eh. My workload just arrived so can't be bothered to reply this thread anymore.

[Grahameeboy]

No apologies necessary. It was a discussion, ideas are exchanged. Fair game.

Agree life is all different shade of gray.

You were coming from disabled person's point of view.
I came from a person sick of society's inverse-discrimination, inverse-racism, and media's "bad news is good news".

I support your point on disabled facilities in universities. I don't support your view that what Unitec's did was disgraceful, but rather an oversight to an anomaly, and I definitely loathe the Herald's Jacquiline Smith expose.

We should go for a ride sometime and continue the discussion eh. My workload just arrived so can't be bothered to reply this thread anymore.

25% of Kiwi's have a disability, is not an anomaly but peeing in a bowl is...

Yes to Ride sometime...don't have Nats this weekend. PM me...

[Ixion]

The dude can use his arms? I got a chain saw. Sorted.

EADIT: If he can't , I'll do the chain saw bit. Serious. Have the Press standing by.

[Grahameeboy]

The dude can use his arms? I got a chain saw. Sorted.

EADIT: If he can't , I'll do the chain saw bit. Serious. Have the Press standing by.

And your point......................

[Ixion]

Where there's a will, there's a way. If the problem is the wheel chair can't get into the toilet, extend the opening. If Unitec can't/won't do it right sharpish, then someone else can. Five minutes with a chain saw, bigger door hole, sorted. In the time spent for everyone involved to boitch about it , an enterprising engineer could have *solved* the problem.