Bad crane day

[Timber020]

I have being doing pines just below this job and got called last night about this accident. I know a few operators that have been nearly killed in this situation and it sucks.

Titan get full mention after one of there operators has a close call and they loose one VERY expensive machine. And the contractors who are most likely to be responsible for the whole accident arent even named.
Kinda gets at me because I know a few crane operators that have been nearly killed by this kind of job and they get hauled through the media while the guys that nearly kill them and cause the accident through there recklessness or lying to the crane operator about weights or how the jobs been set up get off nearly scott free. Its like only the bike rider being named and photographed after a cars cut him off and caused him to wreck.


And it makes it harder for guys who are safe to get cranes to work with them because of the recklessness of some cowboy operators.

Now i dont know if it was Treescapes fault but they were who brought the crane onto the job and are most likely to have been in charge of its end of boom operation and load management at the load end, having them not named at all while naming and photographing the titan company isnt fair.

A while back another company put a crane over and onto a house in kelburn and polluted the duck pond with hydralic fluid after the crane was tipped upside down and the oil found its way into the stormdrain. The guy who lied to the operator about the wieght (to save himself a few bucks in time by loading above the max weight the crane driver had set) and set up the load all wrong got off and changed his trading name for the next year while the crane guys got the bad publicity.

This in one bent crane!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/2007225/Town-belt-crane-has-liftoff

From Stuff

A crane working on Tinakori Hill has toppled over, sending its 30-metre-long boom crashing into the town belt.

The crane was being used to lift pine trees out of the bush when it fell over at 4pm yesterday.

The ageing trees were being removed by Wellington City Council contractors in Salisbury Court, Wadestown.

"It's pretty clear that something has gone wrong. Obviously we're very relieved that no-one was hurt," council spokesman Richard MacLean said.

About 20 trees were being taken out of the area as it was believed they could fall and pose a danger to walkers, or damage tracks. All the parties involved would be working with Labour Department investigators to find out what had happened, Mr MacLean said.

A Titan Cranes spokesman said it was too early to say what had made the crane fall over.

[Cloggy]

Isn't the crane driver ultimately responsible for lifting the load?
And you would think Titan would have a representative on the ground at the boom end to ensure the loads are correctly fastened and not overweight or dangerous in any way. Especially when the toys you are playing with are this expensive.
Don't these modern cranes have some sort of safety built in where if they are lifting outside the safe range it just won't lift?
Would be as simple as a couple of load cells in the outriggers. Once the load on any outrigger exceeds a pre-set level, the crane can't lift.
That wouldn't prevent an accident like this happening if the ground gave way, which is another possibility in this case of course.

[Headbanger]

Its the operators responsibility.

And good operators don't tip over cranes.

[trustme]

Worked with cranes for 25 years , ultimately it is up to the driver , if he says 'no' that is his call, too often they give it a go with all the bells & whistles ringing & oops, suddenly it is everyone else's fault. If he was any sort of an operator he would have a feel for it, they know when they are pushing the limit. The unknown's are drains & ground subsidence, always a risk but the operator made the decision to go ahead. If a crane driver ever told me 'no' that was fair enough , on occasions I thought they were wrong but it was & is his call.

[TLDV8]

too often they give it a go with all the bells & whistles ringing & oops, suddenly it is everyone else's fault.

Just for those folk not in engineering trustme is talking about the the various alarms that go off warning of eminent overload or over reach.

Cranes normally fall over due to not being set up on stable ground or over reaching with a flat boom angle while under load.
Not that anyone would normally do it but a 70 ton P&H would struggle to lift 2 tons with a flat boom.
Crane lifts are all about weight,boom angle and extension,go over the limit and the alarm goes off first,next is all bad news.

[Timber020]

When it comes to trees the rules change. With normal crane operation the load is normally lifted from a secure point of rest and often easily visable. The load can be "felt" by trying to lift it and if its to heavy it can normally be put back.

In tree work the tree is dismantled by a climber who from up to 30m up rigs the crane, judges weight, swing direction, swing distance, wieght bias, rigging point etc etc. A guy on the ground cant do this. The sections arent just cut and lifted, they are often cut to fall away from the climber so they swing clear and dont come back to crush the climber.
If this is done wrong the crane operator has NO reasonable warning of what hes about to have to deal with and this can magnify the effective load force on the boom many times the weight of the section thats been cut. Theres no weight sensoring or warning of the amount of swing force thats going to be applied until the section is already on an unstoppable path.

For example (now I cant remember the whole story 100% but I think this is about right according the the crane operator) the tree in kelburn was a large trunk section. The crane guy couldnt see the trunk and relied on the arborist to tell him the weight. from memory the section was something like 5 tonnes and the arborist told him it was 2.
He also cut the section off using a sloping cut (although he was even asked if that was a good idea by the occupant of the house), so as soon at the crane lifted it a little it would slide off the stump and the crane would HAVE to take it. Experts who examined the accident think he did this so the crane operator wouldnt have the chance to make him take more time by cutting the trunk into smaller pieces if the cranes gauges said it was to heavy.
It was to heavy and caused to crane to topple over

Crane operators are completely at the mercy of the climber when it comes to the safety of the load

[Headbanger]

When it comes to trees the rules change.

Interesting, I can see where your coming from now.

I have worked with and around cranes for most of my working life, operated them, worked as a dogman, and supervised all facets of their operation. Worked with a small number of supremely talented operators and a bunch of morons.

Consider myself quite capable and experienced, Never worked with trees before though.

Having said that most of our lifts are blind and of unknown weight (though we are pretty damn good at gauging it),and sometimes still secured, but we ensure we have good people at both ends of the job.

[TLDV8]

The crane company allowed a non qualified person to make cowboy decisions.
The crane operator in turn elected to do the same.

The SWL would be around 2.5,strangely from your reply that means a safe 5 ton lift would be reduced to 2 tonnes.
That means no chance of failure because with a dead lift there is no margin,hardly rocket science.
There is no excuse.

I agree,all parties should have been shamed in public and have any licenses revoked.



Not that anyone would normally do it but a 70 ton P&H would struggle to lift 2 tons with a flat boom.

There are no rule changes with tree's,that is cowboy BS,the only thing that changes is the SWL ratio to avoid any chance of loosing control of the load.

.

[TLDV8]

When it comes to trees the rules change.

Thank !@#$ it wasn't a helicopter,whoops,Tui moment. :wacko:

[Timber020]

I agree,all parties should have been shamed in public and have any licenses revoked.



There are no rule changes with tree's,that is cowboy BS,the only thing that changes is the SWL ratio to avoid any chance of loosing control of the load.

.
If you look at the position of the crane in the article there is next to no chance the crane operator could have seen jack, and in that sort of situation even the ground crew would have found it differcult to observe the job well from a safe position.

Your right the rules dont change but the job of all that load judgement is left up to the arborist in the tree as hes the one who creates, directs, judges, rigs "sets free" the load. Its generally not possible for the crane operator or crane groundsman to do it because they dont have the expertise or the perspective of the guy up in the tree.

While working for another company I was torn out of a tree by a crane operator who cared more about the paint on his boom than my life. I ended up being strung between the load and my 2 climbing lines going some 5m back into the tree about 15m above a road. It was only because I was able to cut myself free (having a rather violent returning swing to the tree) that I avoided being torn between the crane and tree. I took this a little personally at the time and I came down from the tree to find one of the other tree guys had dragged the operator out of the cab and were about to throw him a boot party for what he nearly did to me.(I broke it up before he so much as a single kick in)
This is why on the job it tends to be the arborist that makes the judgement calls because generally its there life most at risk in a job that makes firefighting statistically look like knitting.

I have worked a fair bit around cranes, and done heli work, and for the climber its more dangerous than I like to think about. And the focus to a point has to be on keeping them safe as they are the soft stationary little ball of mush positioned against a hard place amongst tonnes of swinging bits.

But I think treescape should have been named in the article, I have worked for them a fair bit in the past, as have many of my mates. Treescape were very quick when this job was being notified and mentioned in the papers to be named as they were the contractors heading the job, but when something like this happens only Titan is left looking like they might have screwed up or are involved in accidents.

[pzkpfw]

(Sorry O/T...)

Oooh. Cranes.

I need a smallish crane-truck to come down a shared driveway (read: not too much space) and help get a 3-seater couch up to the second floor of a house so it can be got inside through the sliding door of a deck.

(It's too big to go in through the normal door, so for 8 months has sat next to my bike, for the cat to sit on when stuck in the garage.)

Tried a local crane company but they never got back to me, though they sounded keen on the phone.

This'd be in Tawa... ...?




And the focus to a point has to be on keeping them safe as they are the soft stationary little ball of mush positioned against a hard place amongst tonnes of swinging bits.

Sounds like riding a motorcycle.

[Timber020]

(Sorry O/T...)

Oooh. Cranes.

I need a smallish crane-truck to come down a shared driveway (read: not too much space) and help get a 3-seater couch up to the second floor of a house so it can be got inside through the sliding door of a deck.

(It's too big to go in through the normal door, so for 8 months has sat next to my bike, for the cat to sit on when stuck in the garage.)

Tried a local crane company but they never got back to me, though they sounded keen on the phone.

This'd be in Tawa... ...?





Sounds like riding a motorcycle.

Youd need 4 guys and some rope to move that couch!

[Headbanger]

Youd need 4 guys and some rope to move that couch!

My thoughts exactly, though I was going to say 3 people.....

[Ixion]

Youd need 4 guys and some rope to move that couch!

One guy and some rope is enough. Rope round each end, belayed to something on the deck. Haul one end up a bit (use a Twyfur if it's too heavy). Secure, haul the other end up a bit . Then the first end and so on. When it's up level with the deck (so you can't easily pull up any more) , secure to the far side and roll it over onto the deck.

Couch is easy, cos you don't need to worry about scratching it. A china cabinet is more challenging.

[pzkpfw]

Not sure I can see it being done without damage to something. Might consider it yet, though.

(The couch is a bit smaller than that car.)

[Ixion]

For a couch, old carpet or mats are the trick. Under the ropes to prevent rope marks . If the fabric is very soft use some corrugated cardboard as well.

Put the ropes right round the couch , so down from the deck, under couch , up to deck again. At each end (maybe a set in the middle if it's real big).

I moved all the heavy furniture into our house this way.

If you have a mate to heave on one end while you heave on the other , it helps. If i real doubt use a second pair of ropes and belay them after each lift, so even if you lose it it won't fall. Don't try to tie ropes round legs and such like they are never securely attached. DAMHIK.

[Timber020]

I heard today a rumour that treescape had been using the crane for drag lining logs up the hill(I think thats supposed to be a big no no). Not only does it make life tough in general for the crane but it can also mean the load sensors wont work accurately.

[trustme]

If that is the case then the crane driver had to know what was going on & was a party to it.
I understand what you are saying about the weight coming on suddenly when the tree is topped & would have thought the arborist if he had any sense of self preservation would have made bloody sure what he was doing was within the cranes capability as he would be directly in the line of fire if things went pear shaped.
You may well be right but if that was common practice I suspect arborists would be very much a dying breed , literally not figuratively.