Sirs and Dames

[slofox]

So our esteemed leaders have returned us to the days of yore when knights and dames roamed our shores, bearing titles of "Sir" and "Dame"...
Do you think this is a good idea, a bad idea, do you in fact actually give a rat's arse or have you even woken up yet today..?
Exercise your power - Vote now....

[MisterD]

Unquestionably a good idea - as is the removal of any other socialist nonsense from the last 9 years.

Arise Sir Pine Tree...

[Maha]

Colin Meads does not need a Knighthood......he will always be Colin Meads, that in itself is all the recognition he will ever need.
Anybody else......na I dont care either way.

Sir:Maha

[cc rider]

Don't do it!!!
Think chastity belts, think codpiece :gob:

would that make you all Sir Rogers?? :chase: :laugh:

[MSTRS]

Depending on the size of the other fellow's codpiece...you could be Sir Rogered.:cool::lol:
As someone who believes we should ditch all ties to Britain, I think Sir/Dame has outlived it's usefulness. But then, what other way of singling out (in address terms) is there for outstanding Kiwis?

[MisterD]

As someone who believes we should ditch all ties to Britain, I think Sir/Dame has outlived it's usefulness. But then, what other way of singling out (in address terms) is there for outstanding Kiwis?

The only link to Britain is in the use of the titles "Sir" and "Dame" they're still New Zealand honours that are being given out. Let's be honest the letters after a name mean as much to anyone as the designation of a Jap sprotsbike...and another thing, people who have a PhD can call themselves "Dr" so what's the difference?

When this came up pre-election I remember someone suggesting "The" as a title as in The Colin Meads, which I have to say carries a certain something...

[SPman]

But then, what other way of singling out (in address terms) is there for outstanding Kiwis?
Tone of voice!

[MSTRS]

Tone of voice!

So Knobcheese can be said respectfully?

[cc rider]

Depending on the size of the other fellow's codpiece...you could be Sir Rogered.:cool::lol:
As someone who believes we should ditch all ties to Britain, I think Sir/Dame has outlived it's usefulness. But then, what other way of singling out (in address terms) is there for outstanding Kiwis?

be careful you don't want to be know around the turret as a Sir Lancealot...:spanking:

I'll bet there are many, many outstanding Kiwis who are just doin their thing, gettin on with life & never get any acknowledgement. To be thought of, remembered in positive terms should be anyones pride :first:

[Mully]

Don't give a rat's either way - although if they do go back (isn't it a done deal) I do think they should stop cheapening it by giving it to sports players and actors (this wasn't us, but "Sir Clive Woodward" was a joke IMO).

Maybe they can have Sir and Dame for people who have actually done something, and keep the NZ ones for sports players?


and another thing, people who have a PhD can call themselves "Dr" so what's the difference?


Between what and what?? Although, OT, I understand that PhDs are meant to be a lot less liberal about where they sprinkle the title "Dr" around. (Apparently, Cullen wasn't meant to use his in everyday language becuase he wasn't an MD)

[MSTRS]

I'll bet there are many, many outstanding Kiwis who are just doin their thing, gettin on with life & never get any acknowledgement.

Of course there is. And many (most?) would be embarassed to be 'titled'. Yet some sort of title should be a good thing. Recognition (as in appearance on This Is Your Life) may be one thing, but the ongoing recognition is another. Perhaps something uniquely NZ. A respectful Maori title like Koru/Kuia?

[ManDownUnder]

GREAT idea.

It's an archaic tradition but "Sir" is recognised throughout the commonwealth, and likely much of the world as something hard to attain, and worthy.

"Order of New Zealand" is much like a Pass in NCEA. Take that to London and ask what the hell it means.

In times of globalisation like now we need things to be understood globally, and if that means adopting archaic titles (that we as NZers are still in control of giving out then it's all upside as far as I can see

[MisterD]

Between what and what?? Although, OT, I understand that PhDs are meant to be a lot less liberal about where they sprinkle the title "Dr" around. (Apparently, Cullen wasn't meant to use his in everyday language becuase he wasn't an MD)

Yeah, I wasn't very clear was I...just trying to make the point that "Sir" and "Dr" are just English language words which go along with a certain set of letters after the name. Any connection with Britain begins and ends there.

[Hitcher]

I lost interest in the New Years and Queen's Birthday honours once I had difficulty ascertaining the hierarchy difference between the Order of the Kakapo, the Purple Pipi, and the Distinguished Puha Award.

[Hitcher]

As for the term "doctor", I don't mind people using this term if they actually are one, i.e. they have a PhD or equivalent doctorate degree. I wince at vets, chiropractors, dentists, amongst others, who insist on using this honorific. Just because your professional association decides you are one doesn't make it so.

Don't forget that most medical doctors aren't academic doctors: most have MB ChB degrees i.e. double bachelors qualifications. MDs these days are as scarce as rockinghorse shit.

[MSTRS]

Yeah, I wasn't very clear was I...just trying to make the point that "Sir" and "Dr" are just English language words which go along with a certain set of letters after the name. Any connection with Britain begins and ends there.

Leave 'Dr' out of the equation, as it has other connotations. But 'Sir' and 'Dame' have the association with Knight of the Realm. Which is strictly British. I don't know how you can have one without the other.

[MisterD]

Leave 'Dr' out of the equation, as it has other connotations. But 'Sir' and 'Dame' have the association with Knight of the Realm. Which is strictly British. I don't know how you can have one without the other.

So should we dismantle our legal and parliamentary systems because they too are based on British originals?

[MisterD]

...and another thing: I think this is a positive step in making the honours system easier for the great unwashed to relate to (and if they can't what is the point in having honours?) but far more important is to stop the practice of handing the things out as part of the retirement package for politicians...

[MSTRS]

So should we dismantle our legal and parliamentary systems because they too are based on British originals?

Not if they work. Do they? If not, then change as required. The important bit being that it 'works'. Without Britain being the ultimate arbiter.
As far as Sir/Dame is concerned, I can live with their use in the absence of a suitable alternate title. At least, those terms are recognised internationally that the holder is, or has done something, special.

[roogazza]

I lost interest in the New Years and Queen's Birthday honours once I had difficulty ascertaining the hierarchy difference between the Order of the Kakapo, the Purple Pipi, and the Distinguished Puha Award.

Sir Hitch , you get my vote, very funny ! G.

[MSTRS]

SA is a republic, but retains membership of the Commonwealth. Do safers use the Sir/Dame thing? And what do Americans do for titled recognition? I'm not interested in being like them, but if they have any such title there, I am not aware.

[Mully]

As far as Sir/Dame is concerned, I can live with their use in the absence of a suitable alternate title.

What about "Good Bloke" and " Good Sheila"??

Good Bloke Edmund Hilary
Good Sheila Kiri Te Kanawa

[Bend-it]

I like the idea of "Sir"s and "Dame"s. If people have genuinely contributed to society, then recognising them is a good thing! Which means 2 things:-

1. They have genuinely contributed to society, as opposed to being entertainment figures (which includes professional sports). This doesn't exclude people like Bono who have used their celebrity status for good, but it is the "good" we celebrate, not the celebrity.

2. "Sir" and "Dame" are easily recognisable, as opposed to whatever it was changed to. And doesn't necessarily tie up to colonial days, otherwise we'd have to start speaking another language, which is okay for me, I speak 3 others. Most kiwis would struggle, I supect... ;)

[cc rider]

I like the idea of "Sir"s and "Dame"s.

would that make you 'Your Royal Hini Sir Bend-it' .....has a certain ring to it ;)

[spookytooth]

I didn't know they had stopped using the sirs and shit,so i dont care if they start again.I won't be calling any one sir, dame or watever

[AllanB]

Sir Allan B


Yes sir I like it :woohoo:

[cc rider]

.....And what do Americans do for titled recognition? I'm not interested in being like them, but if they have any such title there, I am not aware.

They'd buy one...

[Magua]

Seems pointless, you don't need a title to tell what kind of person someone is.

[Ixion]

Leave 'Dr' out of the equation, as it has other connotations. But 'Sir' and 'Dame' have the association with Knight of the Realm. Which is strictly British. I don't know how you can have one without the other.

No such thing as a Knight of the Realm. Knight of the Shire, or Peer of the Realm. But NZ is a realm anyway


Seems pointless, you don't need a title to tell what kind of person someone is.

True. But that's not the point of the honour. It's a recognition, in effect the whole country saying "We think you're a damn good bastard". As Mr Hitcher says, no matter how exalted the order of the kakapo is it doesn't actually mean anything. Cos noone knows about it, y'can't be publicly lauded in secret. Whereas Sir Brett is recognition.

I'm in favour of them, provided they are only given to genuine good cunts. Which means a lot fewer each year.

[Skyryder]

Sir John Key...........................That's what this is all about....................has been appointed to board of ................


Skyryder

[Indiana_Jones]

Seems pointless, you don't need a title to tell what kind of person someone is.

Might of well get rid of school qualifications and world cups etc, you don't need those to know what sort of team you have!

Glad to see the titles back, uncle Helen should never had got rid fo them

-Indy

[AllanB]

Glad to see the titles back, uncle Helen should never had got rid fo them -Indy

That will be Dame Helen thank you :gob::sick:

[rainman]

Colin Meads does not need a Knighthood......he will always be Colin Meads, that in itself is all the recognition he will ever need.
Anybody else......na I dont care either way.

Dead right. Actually I reckon Sir Colin Meads sounds a bit naff.


I'm in favour of them, provided they are only given to genuine good cunts. Which means a lot fewer each year.

That ship has, sadly, sailed. In evidence I give you Sir Roger Douglas. Or any number of other currently entitled useless bastards and bastardesses.


Sir John Key...........................That's what this is all about....................has been appointed to board of ................

May be on to something there.

[Cajun]

SA is a republic, but retains membership of the Commonwealth. Do safers use the Sir/Dame thing? And what do Americans do for titled recognition? I'm not interested in being like them, but if they have any such title there, I am not aware.

i read somewhere other day that some american got given a knight hood, can't remember the name, something about usa & uk relations.

[Skyryder]

Dead right. Actually I reckon Sir Colin Meads sounds a bit naff.



That ship has, sadly, sailed. In evidence I give you Sir Roger Douglas. Or any number of other currently entitled useless bastards and bastardesses.



May be on to something there.



Anyone who has contributed above and beyond the call of duty for his country does not need a title in recognition of this. The whole bloody country knows and gives their respect in due course.


Skyryder

[twotyred]

i read somewhere other day that some american got given a knight hood, can't remember the name, something about usa & uk relations.

perhaps he/she was related to the queen,as Herr Bush is?...

[tommygun]

God save the Queen! Give a knighthood to those that deserve it and any bugger who can afford to buy one!:rockon:

[Skyryder]

i read somewhere other day that some american got given a knight hood, can't remember the name, something about usa & uk relations.

They can only recieve an honoury one. You need to be a member of the commonwealth to recieve a knighthood.

I'll dig up a link on this.

http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=90331

American can not use the honourific of Sir or Dame.

As a footnote http://www.gemworld.com/usA--Original13thAmend.htm I came across this some years back. Probly only have any intgerest for those interested in American History. There is some debate on this and this issue is by no means resolved or ever likey to be. I used some links on this subject when I was visiting some militia sites were giving me a hard time on how the American system is better than the English etc. I responded that unlike 'you guys' we don't lose our laws just the war. Fun times those days.

Skyryder


Skyryder

[Swoop]

An excellent move, going back to proper titles.
Nothing was higher in the "naff-ness" rankings that the crap kiwi awards. Like winning an award from the bottom of a Cornflakes packet.

This was confirmed tonight on Te News. Anything that rangi walker objects to has to be good!

If people object to the title, they can always say "Piss off" and retain some credibility, instead of saying "I really object to this, but begrudgingly accept it".

[Cajun]

perhaps he/she was related to the queen,as Herr Bush is?...


They can only recieve an honoury one. You need to be a member of the commonwealth to recieve a knighthood.

I'll dig up a link on this.

http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=90331

American can not use the honourific of Sir or Dame.

As a footnote http://www.gemworld.com/usA--Original13thAmend.htm I came across this some years back. Probly only have any intgerest for those interested in American History. There is some debate on this and this issue is by no means resolved or ever likey to be. I used some links on this subject when I was visiting some militia sites were giving me a hard time on how the American system is better than the English etc. I responded that unlike 'you guys' we don't lose our laws just the war. Fun times those days.

Skyryder


Skyryder

Ted Kennedy was the one in question,

'The British government said today that Kennedy will be awarded an honorary knighthood for his service to U.S.-U.K. relations and to Northern Ireland.'

I was only speed reading stuff.co.nz other day and noticed it, with american and knighthood.

[Dooly]

Yep, the 'Good bloke', Good sheila' one is perfect.:done:

[MisterD]

i read somewhere other day that some american got given a knight hood, can't remember the name, something about usa & uk relations.

Ted "Chappaquiddick" Kennedy...well known IRA sympathiser and fund raiser...don't get me started on this issue, yet another reason to hang Gordon Brown from a lamp post.

[Burtha]

For the love of Black Adder .... hooray !
Orf with his head ...

[SPman]

Ted "Chappaquiddick" Kennedy...well known IRA sympathiser and fund raiser...don't get me started on this issue, yet another reason to hang Gordon Brown from a lamp post.
Do you need a reason to hang Gordon Brown....other than hanging him alongside Tony Blair!

[Mikkel]

Couldn't give a flying fuck really...

Titles are only good for one thing: having wankers identify themselves readily.

I think we have enough titles around to easily facilitate such identification already.

[Skyryder]

That ship has, sadly, sailed. In evidence I give you Sir Roger Douglas. Or any number of other currently entitled useless bastards and bastardesses.



Michale Fay is another one. Ron Brierly another. What the fuck these guys did for NZ God only knows...............and he's too embarresed to say.
Shit I even know of a case where a female was given one by mistake. When the mistake was pointed out to her she refused to accept it. The mistake that is. She's now a Dame.


Skyryder

[Winston001]

No such thing as a Knight of the Realm. Knight of the Shire, or Peer of the Realm. But NZ is a realm anyway



True. But that's not the point of the honour. It's a recognition, in effect the whole country saying "We think you're a damn good bastard". As Mr Hitcher says, no matter how exalted the order of the kakapo is it doesn't actually mean anything. Cos noone knows about it, y'can't be publicly lauded in secret. Whereas Sir Brett is recognition.

I'm in favour of them, provided they are only given to genuine good cunts. Which means a lot fewer each year.

Good man and another Yes vote from me. The current honours are bland and unknown - meaningless to the public. Knight and Dame had been established for centuries in many countries and are instantly recognisable today world-wide.

The other reason I like it is it adds colour and depth to our society. I get so sick and tired of our bland politically correct modern world. Everyone is equal despite the obvious shining stars and the wastrels. It does no harm to continue traditions, a bit of pomp and circumstance. Particularly in NZ where we are small enough not to get too self-important.

People need icons. We also enjoy bright ligts, triumphant music, and ceremony. The Americans don't have any royal tradition, so they invent it. The Inauguration of Obama cost $US80 million and looked like a coronation - which indeed it was, for Americans.

Bring on the Knights and Dames. :2thumbsup

[slofox]

Michale Fay is another one. Ron Brierly another. What the fuck these guys did for NZ God only knows...............and he's too embarresed to say.
Shit I even know of a case where a female was given one by mistake. When the mistake was pointed out to her she refused to accept it. The mistake that is. She's now a Dame. Skyryder

Actually Skyrider, I meant to put a special category in the poll just for you...one that says "If John Key did it, it MUST be wrong..." :rofl::killingme
But I forgot to do it, sorry....