So we cut costs, but...

[Teambwr47]

So MNZ have rules proposed to cut costs and there's quite a few threads on here that have ideas that will also limit costs, however.....

The public go to race meetings to see racers racing race bikes don't they? The way we're heading we'll soon all be racing quiet road bikes with standard exhausts and spec as it left the factory to limit cost. Yes the racing will be there but the interest of the paddock for Joe Public will be long gone. I know as a road rider one of the highlights for me and most of my mates was walking a race paddock to see specced up race bikes. Add in a suggestion from someone a while back that we use proper road bike tyres and well....surely the end is nigh!

The cost of racing here in New Zealand when compared to other countries is cheap, very cheap! Track time here is cheap as are entries, even if people do moan about it. Yes wages here are less but if riders here look at the costs of racing versus wages, NZ still comes out way cheaper than the UK for example.

Example- test day at Pukekohe - $90
test day at Snetterton - $270
test day at Brands Hatch - $400

Entry cost for a club meeting-

NZ circa - $100 for one class
UK - $400 for one class

Cost to build a 600cc bike to front running top spec in UK club and National racing (FIM supersport)- $65000+

NZ top spec 600 - $35000

The rules here in my view, as a relative newcomer to NZ, are fine as they are and kits looms and ECU's which are fitted to most of the front running bikes should stay. The same should apply to aftermarket suspension and exhaust systems as it is surely the basis of a spec for the 'race bike'.

I would argue that you de-value the racing here by going any further than what i consider the current 'superstock' type spec of SP600 and SBK.

At the end of the day motorsport is always costly but in my mind with NZ having the cheapest form of the sport already its a wrong move to try and 'cheapen' the sport any further.

[merv]

Mmmm production racing, large crowds watched that in the 70s and 80s and guys like this rode http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=121878&d=1236504618 complete with chrome carrier on the back as I've already commented on in this thread http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=93992

I'd be happy to see standard exhausts back on track, to hell with too much noise.

[Quasievil]

NZ = Small population = Low Sponsorship dollar = small underclass racing scene , that recirculates and recirculates and recirculates infinately

[Teambwr47]

Just have to say while i love it here the moaning that I've heard around here and sometimes the riders briefings put the idea of 'whinging poms' to shame....

Someone recently mentioned the cost of entry to a club meeting of $10 as being a 'rip off' etc....

The cost of entry to a club meeting in the UK would easily be £10 or in other words $27.

This weekends nationals at $20 for a weekend ticket compare nicely to BSB at over $80 or the Thundersport UK club championship at $45+

I love this place and the racing, its been superb and I hope it stays that way.

Nothing against anyone who's previously posted here or adds a post to this but you Kiwis just do not realise how good you have it in so many ways...

[Quasievil]

Nothing against anyone who's previously posted here or adds a post to this but you Kiwis just do not realise how good you have it in so many ways...


Those lesser travelled, I agree.

[FJRider]

Cost cutting is being introduced into all forms of motorsport, from Formula 1 down. Standardisation of machines, and allowed replacement parts, will soon be the norm. NO supprises there.

[Tony.OK]

Are those converted figures Brian?
From what I can gather a wage over there is nearly the same, eg if I earn 50k in dollars here, I'd earn 50k in pounds there. Is that somewhere near it?

If so then take away the conversion and things are alot closer..............correct me if I'm wrong, I am quite often.

I'd also say that the average Joe public wouldn't have any idea of bike specs, and only see a racebike once its race fairings are on.
If the racing is close and there's lots of dicing most would walk away feeling happy.
If the whole MotoGp field were out on a one make stock bike I'm sure the racing would be just as good just a bit slower.

[Teambwr47]

Cost cutting is being introduced into all forms of motorsport, from Formula 1 down. Standardisation of machines, and allowed replacement parts, will soon be the norm. NO supprises there.


You're right they are but its the point at which those relative championships in whatever sphere of motorsport start from thats key.

In my view NZ road racing already sits low on the cost scale and is at a level that other governing bodies will be looking to cut costs to, not from........

[Teambwr47]

Are those converted figures Brian?
From what I can gather a wage over there is nearly the same, eg if I earn 50k in dollars here, I'd earn 50k in pounds there. Is that somewhere near it?

If so then take away the conversion and things are alot closer..............correct me if I'm wrong, I am quite often.

I'd also say that the average Joe public wouldn't have any idea of bike specs, and only see a racebike once its race fairings are on.
If the racing is close and there's lots of dicing most would walk away feeling happy.
If the whole MotoGp field were out on a one make stock bike I'm sure the racing would be just as good just a bit slower.

They are converted figures working on a rate 2.7 $ to £ and mate if only that were the case........ dollar parity with the pound!

Typically moving from the UK to NZ would see most jobs, not all, take a 30-40% cut in pay. I base this on some public sector jobs that I know the pay scales for and our experience and that of a number of friends who've moved here in the last few years.

So if you were to earn £50,000 in the UK you'd likely get around $80-90,000 here in NZ.

The $ = £ thing is a load of Bullshi* trotted out by recruitment and immigration people who try and screw people moving from UK to NZ.

Good example going the other way NZ to UK is a public sector job I know (police) that with same level service in each country the conversion would be NZ- $65000 UK-£33000

[CHOPPA]

I dont really care what happens to the rules, the more rules there are to keep the costs down basically makes it more expensive to modify the bikes so they are within the rules.

For instance standard pistons that are machined cost alot more then some aftermarket ones....

[FJRider]

I dont really care what happens to the rules, the more rules there are to keep the costs down basically makes it more expensive to modify the bikes so they are within the rules.

For instance standard pistons that are machined cost alot more then some aftermarket ones....

"standard" piston size(for example only), may not necessarily equate to original piston size. "Standard" would then just mean... what parts you ALL use.

[Tony.OK]

Mate if only that were the case........ dollar parity with the pound!

Typically moving from the UK to NZ would see most jobs, not all, take a 30-40% cut in pay. I base this on some public sector jobs that I know the pay scales for and our experience and that of a number of friends who've moved here in the last few years.

So if you were to earn £50,000 in the UK you'd likely get around $80-90,000 here in NZ.

The $ = £ thing is a load of Bullshi* trotted out by recruitment and immigration people who try and screw people moving from UK to NZ.

Good example going the other way NZ to UK is a public sector job I know (police) that with same level service in each country the conversion would be NZ- $65000 UK-£33000

Agreed there are difference's....................But comparatively things seem cheaper over there.
Off Ebay a new 600=7000 pnds / 50000=14% of wage
In NZ..............600=$17000 / 80000=21% of wage

Doesn't matter though............its too expensive for me in any case.

Sounds like ya had a decent weekend too mate.........................still waiting for those snaps too:Pokey:

[White trash]

Agree to a point with what you're saying here Brian. We don't want to dumb down the level of bike too much.

However, for how much longer can we afford to run an SBK series with only one race having more than ten bikes on the grid?

[Robert Taylor]

Mmmm production racing, large crowds watched that in the 70s and 80s and guys like this rode http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=121878&d=1236504618 complete with chrome carrier on the back as I've already commented on in this thread http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=93992

I'd be happy to see standard exhausts back on track, to hell with too much noise.

But that overlooks that it is usually more expensive to replace an oem muffler than an aftermarket muffler after a crash.

[Robert Taylor]

Just have to say while i love it here the moaning that I've heard around here and sometimes the riders briefings put the idea of 'whinging poms' to shame....

Someone recently mentioned the cost of entry to a club meeting of $10 as being a 'rip off' etc....

The cost of entry to a club meeting in the UK would easily be £10 or in other words $27.

This weekends nationals at $20 for a weekend ticket compare nicely to BSB at over $80 or the Thundersport UK club championship at $45+

I love this place and the racing, its been superb and I hope it stays that way.

Nothing against anyone who's previously posted here or adds a post to this but you Kiwis just do not realise how good you have it in so many ways...

And I bet the same guy who whinged at the $10 fee would have no compuction about handing $10 across a bar.

[Robert Taylor]

Are those converted figures Brian?
From what I can gather a wage over there is nearly the same, eg if I earn 50k in dollars here, I'd earn 50k in pounds there. Is that somewhere near it?

If so then take away the conversion and things are alot closer..............correct me if I'm wrong, I am quite often.

I'd also say that the average Joe public wouldn't have any idea of bike specs, and only see a racebike once its race fairings are on.
If the racing is close and there's lots of dicing most would walk away feeling happy.
If the whole MotoGp field were out on a one make stock bike I'm sure the racing would be just as good just a bit slower.

Look at Toyota racing series here in NZ, all the cars are the same and the racing is dead boring. More boring than car racing usually is!

[Quasievil]

I think everyone should buy motards, much cheaper :msn-wink:

Okay I deserve what I get for that one

[Teambwr47]

Agreed there are difference's....................But comparatively things seem cheaper over there.
Off Ebay a new 600=7000 pnds / 50000=14% of wage
In NZ..............600=$17000 / 80000=21% of wage

Doesn't matter though............its too expensive for me in any case.

Sounds like ya had a decent weekend too mate.........................still waiting for those snaps too:Pokey:

The base cost of the bike compared to the wage is at a very similar level depending on if you look at 80000 or 90000, its the rules that limit the expenditure here. The actual listed RRP prices are cheaper here but there's more scope for deals in a bigger market over there.

The costs of track and race time are certainly more over there.

The pictures mate I'll stick up on facebook for you check out then PM you. Decide on which ones you like and I'll email them.

[FJRider]

However, for how much longer can we afford to run an SBK series with only one race having more than ten bikes on the grid?


How much longer can those running in an SBK series, afford to continue to run in an SBK series... ???

[White trash]

And I bet the same guy who whinged at the $10 fee would have no compuction about handing $10 across a bar.
Are you questioning my priorities Taylor? Why I oughta......

[White trash]

And before the know-it-alls such as Gazza and the like jump in here and start raving on about how scared club racers are of getting their arses kicked and why are there so many running F1 class at VMCC yet sod all @ National level.

Let's have a little look shall we? Near as I can tell, from last years VMCC meetings, there were 6 - 8 elegible Superbikes in the F1 field. Less than the Nationals.

[merv]

But that overlooks that it is usually more expensive to replace an oem muffler than an aftermarket muffler after a crash.

Yeah agreed, but I was just commenting on his "The public go to race meetings to see racers racing race bikes don't they? The way we're heading we'll soon all be racing quiet road bikes with standard exhausts and spec as it left the factory to limit cost. Yes the racing will be there but the interest of the paddock for Joe Public will be long gone" and I was saying it sounded like production racing of old and that it did draw crowds - Castrol 6 hour etc so I don't think the bikes are the issue.

We've discussed it many times before about the competing factors for the discretionary dollar, and with the youth of today motorcycles just aren't doing it like they used to as they have other interests.


Look at Toyota racing series here in NZ, all the cars are the same and the racing is dead boring. More boring than car racing usually is!

Yep one make doesn't stir the emotions like Honda vs Kawasaki vs Yamaha vs Suzuki, vs Triumph vs Ducati etc as the public likes to relate to their own ride and cheer their brand on.

[Robert Taylor]

So MNZ have rules proposed to cut costs and there's quite a few threads on here that have ideas that will also limit costs, however.....

The public go to race meetings to see racers racing race bikes don't they? The way we're heading we'll soon all be racing quiet road bikes with standard exhausts and spec as it left the factory to limit cost. Yes the racing will be there but the interest of the paddock for Joe Public will be long gone. I know as a road rider one of the highlights for me and most of my mates was walking a race paddock to see specced up race bikes. Add in a suggestion from someone a while back that we use proper road bike tyres and well....surely the end is nigh!

The cost of racing here in New Zealand when compared to other countries is cheap, very cheap! Track time here is cheap as are entries, even if people do moan about it. Yes wages here are less but if riders here look at the costs of racing versus wages, NZ still comes out way cheaper than the UK for example.

Example- test day at Pukekohe - $90
test day at Snetterton - $270
test day at Brands Hatch - $400

Entry cost for a club meeting-

NZ circa - $100 for one class
UK - $400 for one class

Cost to build a 600cc bike to front running top spec in UK club and National racing (FIM supersport)- $65000+

NZ top spec 600 - $35000

The rules here in my view, as a relative newcomer to NZ, are fine as they are and kits looms and ECU's which are fitted to most of the front running bikes should stay. The same should apply to aftermarket suspension and exhaust systems as it is surely the basis of a spec for the 'race bike'.

I would argue that you de-value the racing here by going any further than what i consider the current 'superstock' type spec of SP600 and SBK.

At the end of the day motorsport is always costly but in my mind with NZ having the cheapest form of the sport already its a wrong move to try and 'cheapen' the sport any further.

Brian, I know I answer for many in saying that you are most wecome in this country. At least you bring skills, have a culture that fits in and are not sucking the national purse dry. Thank God we now have a Government that is already attacking the welfare mentality.
Having myself lived in England for many years and travelled widely I can state that NZ is indeed still a low cost country, given even comparing in ratio to wage rates etc. What probably distorts our thinking is that a great many of our citizens aspire to own their own homes so are saddled with mortgages. etc. That further impinges on discretionary income such as racing motorcycles.
If you turn up to a road race meeting in the States its 50 greenbacks or more for a suspension tuner to set your sag and clickers. Imagine if I tried to charge $100NZ every time someone asked me to have a look at their bike! So much is done out of goodwill in this country.
As for the rules yes they are basically close to what they should be. Maybe keep the engines stock but allow an aftermarket ECU and exhaust system, dont mess with the rest of the rules.

[AllanB]

I want to see loud bikes at a racetrack.

I took the kids to the speedway a month ago and the sidecars and cars running bike engines were quiet - I commented to Mrs B that I've been on louder group rides on the street!
A dam site quieter than a Saturday morning on Manchester Street when the Harley shop opens :scooter:

Even the V8's were quieter than the last meeting I went to 10 years ago.

FFS race bikes should make racebike noises!

Homo-tree-huggers and fools who build next to racecourses/airports then complain about the noise to the council are to blame.

[Teambwr47]

I'd also say that the average Joe public wouldn't have any idea of bike specs, and only see a racebike once its race fairings are on.


Have to disagree with that....

At the last few meetings (Paeroa and Puke Nats) I've put the bike outside the awning for much of the day and lots of people have very obviously stopped to look at the bike then pointed out the Ohlins kit, exhaust etc to each other.

Most who go to watch racing will have some knowledge of bikes even if its just makes and models and that's where race bikes have an attraction due to there difference.

Racing is racing whatever we all end up racing but if you took cost cutting to the enth degree and in a few years time everyone was racing on bog standard economical 250 4 strokes on tyres that last 5 meetings..... would i go as a spectator..... no chance.

[Tony.OK]

Look at Toyota racing series here in NZ, all the cars are the same and the racing is dead boring. More boring than car racing usually is!

Wasn't really suggesting a one make series.............just saying Stock racing with close quarter action is just as exicting..........its whats at stake that makes the difference.
SBK is the top level and emotively is exciting
F1 at club level doesn't produce the same emotions does it? But the racing can be just as exciting.:yes:

[Tony.OK]

As for the rules yes they are basically close to what they should be. Maybe keep the engines stock but allow an aftermarket ECU and exhaust system, dont mess with the rest of the rules.
Thats what I'd be happy with.........................its what I've got:whistle:


Racing is racing whatever we all end up racing but if you took cost cutting to the enth degree and in a few years time everyone was racing on bog standard economical 250 4 strokes on tyres that last 5 meetings..... would i go as a spectator..... no chance.

Totally agree mate...............I don't for a minute suggest cutting cost to that degree.
I've spent all my $$ on susp, and would happily recommend to all to do the same. In reality thats the cheap part, its once ya get inside the motor the dollars can get silly. I'd love it if a superstock ( standard engine ) class could be added to run inside the SBK class.

[vtec]

At club level, F2 was more exciting than F1 because of the numbers, and the comparatively more even bikes.

I like the racing as it is. I just can't afford to do it... yet. Will chase more sponsors when I get back from the states for the next season.

A stock 600 series as a feeder would be awesome for the racers though. And I think it would be bloody cool to see how the stockers go against each other.

With regard to replacing OEM mufflers being more expensive. The streetstocks allowed aftermarket mufflers in the event of the OEM one being damaged. Obviously requires self policing unfortunately.

[lostinflyz]

And I bet the same guy who whinged at the $10 fee would have no compuction about handing $10 across a bar.

i was one but there was an argument to the case. it was 15 bucks at timaru and i wondered whether the event was worth it. Considering it i wondered if it may be more beneficial to run a meet on free entry (lower track rental fee - lower entry fees - basic cost cutting) and find alternative revenue sources (i.e. food, merchandise - why are there no nzsbk shirts?)???? its not worth starting again but consider what was being said. also i consider i may have been stingy but that was my situation at the time, but having the pennies to afford it now my opinion hasn't changed.

as for on topic, i agree that bog stock racing aint the way to go. but having said that there just aint the money to have a sizeable enough fields of new superbikes and supersport bikes (not to mention f3) - argue it any which way theres not all that many bikes out there and very few coming along. sponsors are much more demanding and fewer in number, with all the fun and games mr. accountants have made and the demands they make to provide a few pennies. just because it may be cheap compared to other places it doesn't make it right and work. but nor do ideas that are bandaid solutions.

[roogazza]

And before the know-it-alls such as Gazza and the like jump in here and start raving on about how scared club racers are of getting their arses kicked and why are there so many running F1 class at VMCC yet sod all @ National level.

Let's have a little look shall we? Near as I can tell, from last years VMCC meetings, there were 6 - 8 elegible Superbikes in the F1 field. Less than the Nationals.

Nice to see I'm still getting under your skin , and without having to say anything at all !
If you would like to read that particular post again, I mentioned that just maybe, club racers find nationals a bit scary ? (with a question mark !)

I never did, but you ? who knows , you only rode for 5 minutes who could tell ? G.
ps but you're a great gum flapper thats for sure and thats a lot easier than putting in the effort.

[wharfy]

And I bet the same guy who whinged at the $10 fee would have no compuction about handing $10 across a bar.

Yep, $10 wouldn't go far in a Wellington bar, and it wouldn't get you into a movie.

Of course people will whinge and say all sorts of crap on the internet, the signal to noise ratio is not very good . I mean what sort of looser is playing on a computer at 5 in the morning ? Oh.. me :doh:

[wharfy]

Brian, I know I answer for many in saying that you are most wecome in this country. At least you bring skills, have a culture that fits in and are not sucking the national purse dry.

Do you mean white ?


Thank God we now have a Government that is already attacking the welfare mentality.
God had nothing to do with it He/She/It was far too busy supporting both sides of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Unfortunately ATTACK is not what the "welfare mentality" needs - it need empathy,education and opportunity.

So much is done out of goodwill in this country.
Indeed it is Robert and you provide a great service to the motorcycle racing fraternity, it is appreciated. :niceone:

[scracha]

At the end of the day most racers are there to test/show their riding skills and that's what the majority of spectators go to marvel over....not the pretty bikes. I'd rather watch 35 stock 600's battling their way round a track than 10 skint F1 racers. I reckon your average non biking telly spectator and sponsor would too. Formula 1, WSBK and motogp have all cut costs; some too far IMHO but if competitors can't afford to race then some things have to be chopped.

[suzuki21]

The public wouldnt really care, look at NZV8's. They arent supercars. Put a pipe on a standard bike and who would know, it would also level the playing field.

[White trash]

Nice to see I'm still getting under your skin , and without having to say anything at all !
If you would like to read that particular post again, I mentioned that just maybe, club racers find nationals a bit scary ? (with a question mark !)

I never did, but you ? who knows , you only rode for 5 minutes who could tell ? G.
ps but you're a great gum flapper thats for sure and thats a lot easier than putting in the effort.
Lol. Yeah, you're still getting under my skin alright, losing heaps of sleep over an oppinion some "never was" holds over someone he's never met. :)

As for the effort I put in? I wouldn't mind knowing what your point of reference is but here's a couple of facts that may shed some light. I raced competively for 18 months, not very long indeed, but the rason I'm not doing it any more is I can't. Not wont try. It's not safe for me to be racing right now, plain and simple. Also, for every north island round this summer, I've been hard at work for others making sure they get to enjoy their racing as much as I did. Quite frankly, I work my arse off.

Don't get me started on effort. But yeah, I do like to say my piece, you're 100% correct on that count.

[White trash]

The public wouldnt really care, look at NZV8's. They arent supercars. Put a pipe on a standard bike and who would know, it would also level the playing field.
A very good point. And realistically, the NZV8s are actually ALOT lower spec than the road cars they're modeled off with the exception of suspension and brakes. Look at how the series has taken off and the following it has now.

[kittytamer]

The cost of racing here in New Zealand when compared to other countries is cheap, very cheap! Track time here is cheap as are entries, even if people do moan about it. Yes wages here are less but if riders here look at the costs of racing versus wages, NZ still comes out way cheaper than the UK for example.
.

Absoloutely agree (being a whinging pom myself!). I looked into club racing in the UK a couple of years ago and ruled it out on cost. I moved here 18 months ago and am now racing, all be it only in the occasional clubmans round.
I would say that whilst track time, entry to events both as a competitor and spectator is cheaper than in the UK. The cost of bikes, parts and in particular, tyres is reletively higher.
But, getting back to the original point. Anything less than running superstock spec bikes is not proper racing IMO. Half the attraction for me is pooring over the race bikes in the pits, I love the open pits here and the layed back feel to the events. And if this was done when/if WSBK comes to Hampton Downs next year (?) some local wild cards could enter and we can see how our local talent stacks up at a world level on equal machinary.

[Shaun P]

A very good point. And realistically, the NZV8s are actually ALOT lower spec than the road cars they're modeled off with the exception of suspension and brakes. Look at how the series has taken off and the following it has now.

It would be good value if someone bought in the junior racing such as metrakit etc as that would bring in that missing young family age group and they are really cool!


http://metrakit.com.au/specifications.php

[Benk]

I doubt this would ever happen (due to beaurocratic & neurotic parents and teachers), but wouldnt it be cool if there was something which could be introduced into secondary schools.

Imagine if there was say 10 streetstock bikes available for use for high school students (yr 12/13 maybe?). If you could make it 'cool' from an early age, then it would get a heap more people into racing earlier, and could also pour alot of money into motorcycling in general, as more people (kids specifically) would realise how much 'bang for your buck' you get with motorbikes, as opposed to poxy 4 cyl cars with 30bhp, and 150db exausts, not to mention shitbox rotorvans with bongo van gearing (20000RPM, in 3rd gear and doing 50k's :rolleyes:), etc, etc (etc, etc, etc).

Pipedream probably.

[White trash]

It would be good value if someone bought in the junior racing such as metrakit etc as that would bring in that missing young family age group and they are really cool!


http://metrakit.com.au/specifications.php
They are indeed cool little bikes. Do you know what they sell for over there Shaun?

[Shaun P]

I think they are about 9k aud for a 70cc mini GP - this site has em in usd for an idea http://www.cycleimports.com/acatalog/Metrakit_Mini_GP_Race_Motorcycles.html

[puddytat]

Shame we dont have someone like that Swiss geezer thats behind the America's cup to sponsor it all....be chicken feed for someone like them

[Robert Taylor]

Do you mean white ?


God had nothing to do with it He/She/It was far too busy supporting both sides of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Unfortunately ATTACK is not what the "welfare mentality" needs - it need empathy,education and opportunity.

Indeed it is Robert and you provide a great service to the motorcycle racing fraternity, it is appreciated. :niceone:

Racism was not an intention but as you have mentioned it why is it that only white people can be racists?

I have a number of friends and customers who have a different skin colour to mine and they are afforded the same courtesies as everybody else.

Look at what the National Party did with inviting the Maori Party to be part of the Government, brilliant!

For the record I was skeptical about Barack Obama but am building respect for him.

Compassionate conservatism is arguably more effective in providing empathy, education and opportunity than the unchecked socialist system that has now been firmly ejected.

( Back on subject ) Thanks for the thumbs up on the suspension service we provide, it is interfused with a degree of socialism!!!

[Robert Taylor]

A very good point. And realistically, the NZV8s are actually ALOT lower spec than the road cars they're modeled off with the exception of suspension and brakes. Look at how the series has taken off and the following it has now.

Point of order! ( Im hooked on Parliament TV ) The suspension dampers in NZ V8s are single acting Konis ( no bump damping ) and their performance and longevity is very very average at best. ( Thats being kind ) They run these because in part the supplier ( Stocks ) has a lot of muscle and political clout in that industry.

[Robert Taylor]

The public wouldnt really care, look at NZV8's. They arent supercars. Put a pipe on a standard bike and who would know, it would also level the playing field.

''Level the playing field'' Wrong, the guys at the front would be even further ahead.

[cowpoos]

And I bet the same guy who whinged at the $10 fee would have no compuction about handing $10 across a bar.

At least the bar food would be of a good standard...and the toilets would be clean and the toilet facilities would be of a good level. :whistle:

[Quasievil]

A very good point. And realistically, the NZV8s are actually ALOT lower spec than the road cars they're modeled off with the exception of suspension and brakes. Look at how the series has taken off and the following it has now.

Having spent about an hour hovering around a HRT v8 with the team icl drivers recently I would say for the NZ based teams maybe for the Aussy teams hell no, these things are amazing and there aint anything thats orginal, not even the chassis or the actual body (did ya know the Commodore has 300 mm chopped out of the middle hence the car is shorter.
These cars are truly amazing pieces of engineering, Oh and RT they run some awesome looking OHLINS kits.

Hate to think of the money involved in running a team.

back to bikes, I say (always have) standardize the classes with only mods allowed being Pipes Brakes and suspension and thats it, makes for cheaper racing = more involvement and more involvement = more of a spectacle= = more specatoators = more attention = more sponsorship dollars = a bigger and better racing scene.

dunno why that isnt obvious to everyone really, simple shit.

[FROSTY]

Maybee Im just a stupid old bastard but the most exciting racing Ive seen or been involved in was 250 production.
This class wasn't just subscribed it was most often so oversubscribed they needed to run a and B grade for it.
I remember watching one race where the freight train was 12 bikes long any one of the 12 could have won. (actually Billy was one of that train)
The intent of the 250 proddy rules was that you bought ya bike ,slapped some tyres on and raced
Yea I know I live in the world of dream because yes some of the lead bikes had "factory" parts not availble to joe bloggs off the street. And RGV250's had "reconditioned" rear shocks in em
But the arguments about the racing not being exciting without spending $10000 on race this or that is utter BS.

[Tony.OK]

Maybee Im just a stupid old bastard but the most exciting racing Ive seen or been involved in was 250 production.
This class wasn't just subscribed it was most often so oversubscribed they needed to run a and B grade for it.
I remember watching one race where the freight train was 12 bikes long any one of the 12 could have won. (actually Billy was one of that train)
The intent of the 250 proddy rules was that you bought ya bike ,slapped some tyres on and raced
Yea I know I live in the world of dream because yes some of the lead bikes had "factory" parts not availble to joe bloggs off the street. And RGV250's had "reconditioned" rear shocks in em
But the arguments about the racing not being exciting without spending $10000 on race this or that is utter BS.

Good point Frosty...........................how exciting to watch was the MotoGP when Rossi buggared off into the sunset on his own every time? Not very.
The camera's would always focus on the next set of duelling bikes because thats where the excitment is.

[wharfy]

Racism was not an intention but as you have mentioned it why is it that only white people can be racists?

I have a number of friends and customers who have a different skin colour to mine and they are afforded the same courtesies as everybody else.

Look at what the National Party did with inviting the Maori Party to be part of the Government, brilliant!

For the record I was skeptical about Barack Obama but am building respect for him.

Compassionate conservatism is arguably more effective in providing empathy, education and opportunity than the unchecked socialist system that has now been firmly ejected.

( Back on subject ) Thanks for the thumbs up on the suspension service we provide, it is interfused with a degree of socialism!!!

Oh it is not only white people who have racist views - I once had a Chinese woman tell me that Winston Peters was a racist, and in the same breath say that all Pacific Islanders were lazy ???
However it is only those who have POWER who can exercise their racist/religious/gender beliefs and BE a racist/sexist.
Everyone has racial/religious/gender stereotypes to some extent the trick is try to not buy into it by reinforcing the negative side.
WE know that all motorcyclists are not ignorant, dirty etc. etc. but people love to put labels on things, and the media (and a few politicians) like to appeal to the worst side of human nature and exploit prejudices. Racism/sexism/Religious persecution (I can' think of the 'ism for that) are all about POWER and CONTROL .

A scotsman, an Irishman, an Englishman and an Australian walked into a bar, the barman said "is this some kind of joke ?"

[FROSTY]

Good point Frosty...........................how exciting to watch was the MotoGP when Rossi buggared off into the sunset on his own every time? Not very.
The camera's would always focus on the next set of duelling bikes because thats where the excitment is.
Yea EXACTLY--funny thing though --the 250 proddy bikes were by comparison whisper quiet. But the racing was just something else.
At the time I had best seat in the house -er back end of the pack lol

[White trash]

Having spent about an hour hovering around a HRT v8 with the team icl drivers recently I would say for the NZ based teams maybe for the Aussy teams hell no, these things are amazing and there aint anything thats orginal, not even the chassis or the actual body (did ya know the Commodore has 300 mm chopped out of the middle hence the car is shorter.
These cars are truly amazing pieces of engineering, Oh and RT they run some awesome looking OHLINS kits.

Hate to think of the money involved in running a team.

back to bikes, I say (always have) standardize the classes with only mods allowed being Pipes Brakes and suspension and thats it, makes for cheaper racing = more involvement and more involvement = more of a spectacle= = more specatoators = more attention = more sponsorship dollars = a bigger and better racing scene.

dunno why that isnt obvious to everyone really, simple shit.
Yeah mate, but you're refering to V8 Supercars. We're talking NZV8s. Can't even compare the two.

[Robert Taylor]

Yeah mate, but you're refering to V8 Supercars. We're talking NZV8s. Can't even compare the two.

Thanks for clarifying that before I had the chance to jump in. The real Aussie V8 race cars have either highest level Ohlins ( predominantly ) Sachs or Penske. There may be a little bit of Koni but only for low budget teams at the rear end of the field ( such as TKR ) Our NZV8s substitute the injection with a control carburetor, dodgy single acting control Konis etc.
Frankly they are chalk and cheese.

[Quasievil]

Yeah mate, but you're refering to V8 Supercars. We're talking NZV8s. Can't even compare the two.

Refered to them as the Aussy ones to split the difference from the two kinds but whatever Taxi racing is taxi racing :niceone:

[White trash]

Indeed it is. Glorified Stockcar drivers, the lot of em.

[slowpoke]

Maybee Im just a stupid old bastard but the most exciting racing Ive seen or been involved in was 250 production.
This class wasn't just subscribed it was most often so oversubscribed they needed to run a and B grade for it.
I remember watching one race where the freight train was 12 bikes long any one of the 12 could have won. (actually Billy was one of that train)
The intent of the 250 proddy rules was that you bought ya bike ,slapped some tyres on and raced
Yea I know I live in the world of dream because yes some of the lead bikes had "factory" parts not availble to joe bloggs off the street. And RGV250's had "reconditioned" rear shocks in em
But the arguments about the racing not being exciting without spending $10000 on race this or that is utter BS.

But I for one wouldn't turn up just to watch 250 proddy racing.

I'm kinda with Brian on this one, I go along as much to check out the amazing machines in the pits as much as for the racing. As it is soon going to stand I might as well wander through the local car park 'cos the machines will not be much better than anything on the street.

Worse still I don't think they'll achieve much on their own. Racers are still going to choose 600's over thou's because of our loopy cross entry rules and Stroudy, Shirriffs, Clee and co will still be in a class of their own because they've been exposed to a tougher spec of bike and tougher competition. Club 600 grids will still be oversubscribed and they still won't be bothered turning up to the Nat's.

I think back to the glory days of Macintosh Suzuki's, the Roberts "Plastic Fantastic" and 500 GP 2 strokes racing against modded proddy bikes at Wanganui. They were the bikes I turned up to see. Sure the close racing made the tiddlers exciting but not a soul left to grab a hot dog when the wildly diverse open class got going.

Although I love muscle cars the NZV8's aren't a positve analogy for me. I just find the whole sameness to everything boring and the "can't pass without a nudge" business shits me to tears. The other frustrating thing is the display of money in 4 wheels as opposed to two. There are huge sums being bandied about in lots of different classes on 4 wheels yet we can hardly raise a bean at a National event. The contrast is amazing and well done to the 4 wheel brigade 'cos they are obviously doing something right. I mean how is a Porsche GT3 series viable in NZ?! 17 year olds are driving $40k open wheelers. And have a look at some of the carbon fibre mega horsepower marvels in the TraNZam series....a-fuckin-mazing.

[BMWST?]

i think part of the success back then was bikes were "new" aand relatively exciting to a segement of the population.At that time the vic club(for example) had 400 members and if a new model bike was available you could bet your bottom dollar that there would be two or three at the next club night.The manufacturers were bringing out new models to outdo each other....this started to flow through into the racing classes ...BUT the only decent crowds only turned up at the castrol six hour.Despite different strategies we could never get big crowds to Manfeild to the nationals.The entry fees were relatively high and we lost money every time.