Protective gear

[dpex]

As a previous thread of mine obviates, I've been doing a lot of thinking and experimenting with the issue of protective gear.

And I have come to the conclusion that when the sun is burning almost any level of protective gear is a greater menace than it is a saviour.

I assert this on two counts.

The first being: When the temps are in the high 20's, being wrapped in leather or Kordura, gloves, boots and helmet, is little more than being in a mobile sauna.

Thus the ever-increasing, almost impoosible to measure, stress caused by being over-heated cannot do any less than start shutting down the 'sauna'wrapped' rider's brain.

However, riding along in a t-shirt and jeans, or even shorts, allows full and free aircon to wipe away the effects of the heat.

'Arh, but!' I hear you all scream. 'What about if you go down? At least in full leathers or Kordura your skin will be in tact in the event of a bin!'

And, of course, you'd be absolutely right if said bin just happened to be say, and nice, low-side slide into a remarkably convenient patch of grass.

But what will all that gear do for you, when your brain has shut down due to heat-exhaustion, but you haven't noticed on account of it's a kind of creeping death, when you bin and there ain't no convenient patch of grass (like we have on the track) to slide over?

What happens is, you get to hit something rather solid, or go under the wheels of some other vehicle.

If we could bring you back from the grave and ask, 'What happened? Why did you go wide and hit?????' You would probably answer, 'I'm fucked if I know. One minute I was having a good time then next.... I don't know what happened.'

I do. You were suffering heat exhaustion and your brain had shut down.

And, of course, the next part of these frequent "death-plays" is the fact that the riders are mostly weekend warriors, given a leave-pass from the missus, one a week/fortnight/month. Dressed to give it death, the leathers or Kordura creating a sense of bullet-proofness...'Hey! I'm dressed to crash!'


Till they crash and hit something solid, then all the leather or Kordura in the world won't save their arse.

Add to that the feelings a sometimes-biker gets...Jesus, let's face it, even we frequent bikers get it. The throb, the power, the sounds, the freedom, the superiority over slow cagers...all the stuff which makes biking so good.

Now couple limited bike-time with heat-stress. Oh yeah, ya leathers will save you every time. BULLSHIT!

Last week I rode from Rotorua to Orks, in a T-shirt, gloves, and sandshoes. Two things revealed. First was; having none of the 'supposed' protection of all the good gear I remained extremely focused on the task in hand. Second was, because I was always quite cool, I was able to maintain my focus.

It was a freaky-hot day, yet bike after bike passed me going the other way, with the riders dressed to kill, and I thought, 'Buddy. You're an acident waiting to happen.'

Riding in a T-Shirt.
Yup. Agreed. No protection in the event of a slide onto nice flat grass, but about the same relative protection when hitting a Mac, head on, or T-boning a cage....Yeah, alright, maybe slightly less in the latter circumstance. But mostly, the end result is the same. Lose the plot, hit something solid, get dead.

And the quickest way to lose the plot is to enable environmental stress to take over from where you brain left off. Heta or cold. They're equal enemies.

Righto. Let's hear the screams of denial.

[AllanB]

Sorry you have missed one positive aspect of sheathing ones scrotum in leather on a summer ride - the heat kills off the sperms.

Pictures to follow................;)

[James Deuce]

Several people who have ridden in 50C heat will be along to let you know the benefits of keeping that heat and the sun off your skin. You'll dehydrate much quicker with your skin exposed than covered up and you won't notice it going on, especially at speeds that evaporate sweat quickly, to say nothing of the damage you are doing to yourself exposing skin on a hot day with NZ's UV count.

Why do you think desert dwellers cover their entire bodies and have done so for millenia?

Hydration on hot days is your responsibility. The lack of hydration is not the fault of your gear.

[McWild]

It's New Zealand for goodness' sake, not the Sahara.
If your gear is so clammy and unbreathable that it's seriously affecting your stress levels, you need better gear.
Haven't encountered a temperature yet that my cordura has't been comfy in.

Plus makes the drink at the other end all the more refreshing.


Why do you think desert dwellers cover their entire bodies and have done so for millenia?

A very good point.

[klingon]

If you really find the leather and cordura gear so unbearably hot (and sometimes I do when I'm commuting but not on the open road) you can get air-mesh gear.

It still has protective textile in the areas most prone to damage, and armour, but the other areas (under arms etc) are made of mesh and let the air through.

I find mine very pleasant on my daily commute in summer.

[discotex]

Ummmm air mesh gear............. There's plenty out there these days.

http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/accessoriesandgear/mesh_jacket_comparison/index.html

Or get perforated leathers and those clever under-suits that stop you sweating. I haven't overheated since I got mine and that includes on the track in Jan and Feb.

The heat is no excuse for not wearing most of the gear all of the time. Much as you've managed to justify it to yourself it's a bullshit argument.

(and I'm no ATGATT freak either)

[ital916]

has anyone here ever thrown a hand grenade....just wondering.




*this thread is stupid so I thought Id get the most stupid reply in*

[puddytat]

has anyone here ever thrown a hand grenade....just wondering.

I have...actually it was two. The first one was a dud.....
And Ive fired a M79? rocket launcher ( the Yank ones) with a real bomb on the end of it:woohoo:
Courtesy of Basic training with the Territorials.

[discotex]

Proof that gear helps most of the time (http://www.rideforever.co.nz/gear_up/protect.html)

<img src="http://www.rideforever.co.nz/images/gear_up/pic_effectiveness.gif"

For the whole body in 90% of cases gear helped and a third of the time it totally prevented injury.

That's pretty good evidence.

And like I said, I'm no ATGATT freak. You take your chances that's fine with me (even if I think it's stupid and I hate paying your ACC bills) but don't try to tell me it's safer in any way mate.

["Rambo"]

has anyone here ever thrown a hand grenade....just wondering.




*this thread is stupid so I thought Id get the most stupid reply in*

Yes many times in the past.


I have...actually it was two. The first one was a dud.....
And Ive fired a M79? rocket launcher ( the Yank ones) with a real bomb on the end of it:woohoo:
Courtesy of Basic training with the Territorials.

The same and while over sea's. Got to love live fire.

Also had to put in a stupid bit on this forum. lmao

[mujambee]

I've crossed Spain in mid summer several times, with temps in excess of 35C, and never experienced such thing as heat-stress. I wear black leathers and helmet.

Only trick is to keep hydration levels up: I always wear a camelback full of isotonics and ice.

[AllanB]

I always wear a camelback full of isotonics and ice.


Excellent - just make sure you don't wear cameltoe:lol:

[H00dz]

Hmmm I'm not gonna agree straight away that this was a lot of rubbish....to tell you the truth, you made me think about it for a while....Every doco i see of countries like india, they all ride like the clappers in t-shirts and shorts.

I dont think I'm gonna change back to t-shirts and shorts tho' like I did before I got my gear ....But sometimes I do wish I could

cheers

[James Deuce]

Hmmm I'm not gonna agree straight away that this was a lot of rubbish....to tell you the truth, you made me think about it for a while....Every doco i see of countries like india, they all ride like the clappers in t-shirts and shorts.

I dont think I'm gonna change back to t-shirts and shorts tho' like I did before I got my gear ....But sometimes I do wish I could

cheers

India is a bad example in so many ways. If your basic religious tenet was "you'll be back", you'd ride like the clappers in shorts and chandals as well.

[Hitcher]

Riders who think that wearing less will keep them cooler when ambient temperatures are high (35 degree plus) are deluding themselves.

A few months ago I was privileged enough to spend several weeks riding in the USA and Canada. On some of those days the temperature ran into the high 40s and, on occasion, into the low 50s. Wearing a helmet with the visor down was essential. Imagine tailgating an F16 and you'll start to get an impression of how unrelenting and desiccating such conditions are. We stopped every half or so to take on about a litre of water. Every second stop we had a water fight to make sure that the cottons we had on under our mesh jackets got a good soaking.

Here in New Zealand I'm generally in the habit of flipping my visor open when I enter a 50kmh speed limit, just to get a bit of fresh air in my helmet. Once the temperature gets up, believe me when I say that there's no such thing as fresh air, at any speed.

The bike gets so hot you can't touch levers unless you've got gloves on. Take the ignition keys out and they're burning hot. The sheepskin seat covers were a godsend for those times we had to get back on the bike if it had been parked in the sun for a while.

Great fun, but only an idiot or a potato crisp would want to spend longer than a few minutes unclad.

[H00dz]

India is a bad example in so many ways. If your basic religious tenet was "you'll be back", you'd ride like the clappers in shorts and chandals as well.

LMFAO....Not often I'm Speechless, but that got me :yes:

Bling for that

[madbikeboy]

I'm going to wade into this one as well. I've ridden in Malaysia and Singapore, most people wear street clothes. I still wore gear.

You are going to hit the deck, it's inevitable. If you stop moving, eventually you fall over, right. So, with that impending inevitability, why not prepare a little by putting something more capable of dealing with abrasive surfaces during the deceleration segment of your next crash? I ride pedally's as well, and there are days where I wish for lighter full body leathers.

I have had the unique opportunity to have gravel plucked from my back and ass by a couple of hot nurses. Thing is, when you're face down on a gurney and bleeding, there is less sex appeal that you might first guess.

Also, I have thrown live grenades (once, but I threw a few), and I've also been shot at without result, twice. I've been in the middle of a gun battle once as well. Again, that has less appeal than you might first guess.

Edit: Something just struck me, isn't Dpex a brand of panty liners or something?

[jaymzw]

The absense of the opening poster really makes me think this was a piss-take???

What about Molotovs?
Ive thrown one of them.....

[cs363]

:blank: plus 10

[TLDV8]

http://www.weatherzone.com.au/climate/station.jsp?lt=site&lc=14015


http://www.stjohnnt.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=146&Itemid=280


.

[beyond]

An old cliche.... dress for the slide and not the ride.
You come off your bike on New Zealand roads at 100kmh and for every second you slide with no protective gear, you WILL lose 5mm of skin and muscle. Some parts of your body don't have 5mm of this stuff so you grind bone instead.

Ever had a bad burn.... multiply that pain by the area of the gravel rash or road seal filing. Once you survive that they give you a scrub in hospital. Rough brushes scrubbing all your skinned bits to get rid of any road matter to stop infection. That's worse than the slide. Then there's the daily dressings for months.

I'm not talking skin grafts yet... where they peel hunks of good bits on your body to plug up the leaky bits. Absolute agony.

I've worn leathers in summer and winter, hot and cold, dry and wet and have never had a problem. In our hottest summers you can drop the front zip a tad and get some air in that way if need be. Once you are at open road speeds or more you stay relatively cool anyway.

Yep, love the feeling of riding without all the gear but it's not worth the consequences should things go wrong and even when you are careful, it's not always your fault.

I like to lessen the odds so have a leather suit, best gloves and boots I can afford and I wear them.

[kasper]

has anyone here ever thrown a hand grenade....just wondering. *

Yes I have and it is scarey as shit even on a training range.

And to the original poster. Get better quality advanced gear.
Hell if I leave my vents open on my cordura by mistake I almost freeze on some rides.

--kasper.

[Mystic13]

lol... his brain shut's down if he wears cordura or leathers. Seems he had a permanent shut down and being brain dead has continued to live on and make decisions with what little brain was left.

As all riders who've tried the different gear know,

Cordura and plastic in winter

Leather and plastic in summer. And leather feels so cool on a hot day. When you're riding. Walking around the Paeroa races for the day in leathers wouldn't be fun.

Summer mesh jackets are great around town but on the open road can get a little cold.

I only wish I was wearing protection when I came off the other day and got road rash. Yes I was wearing shorts and a t-shirt. Yes I thought the small trip would be harmless. Yes the hill I went down was steep and there was a little bit of an adrenaline rush as I set off with the wind through my hair. (Yep, I had no helmet) Yes I had an audience of my son, his friend, and my wife and a whole bunch of people in the adjoining park enjoying a summers day.

I remember flying through the air and thinking "what the?"

But seeing my son on his skateboard reminded me of being a kid with one and I just had to have a go. I was doing really well for a few metres till I hit the crack in the foot path. Then...

if only I had my full motorcycle kit on I'd be fine.

Thank goodness I only got a scraped knee and arm.

I have to try the hill again and beat it.

[Tunahunter]

Not wearing good protective gear is bad for you - dehydration it makes you really forgetful - and what's more, it makes you really forgetful - RIP Mr Zimmerwhatever

[Swoop]

Waiting for bones and skin grafts to heal, will seriously cut into your riding time.

[slofox]

I have never suffered heat stress in leathers. Ever.

[swbarnett]

I have never suffered heat stress in leathers. Ever.
I have. That's why I started wearing Denim (in the days before Cordura). I would often open the leather jacket fully and do 140 down the motorway just to get a decent breeze and cool me down.

Even now I come close to overheating when wearing full cordura gear. This is why, during the summer months, I seldom wear more than jeans on my legs.

I don't advocate the t-shirt and jandals approach but I can certainly appreciate the fact that we all react differently to heat. Some of us are heat lovers and could run Death Valley in full leathers while others of us are ice lovers. When I lived in Europe I would regularly cycle in -5 to -10 degrees wearing nothing but standard lycra gear (I actually got frost-bite once and didn't notice till the next day).

My point, really, is that we shoudln't judge others as if they're clones of ourselves. You may not like the way they dress but, for them, it may be appropriate. On the other hand they may be complete idiots - it is not for us to judge. After all, the skin they risk IS theirs.

[slofox]

You have a point there - I do like it hot..(as in "Some Like It Hot" haha).
It is possible that the vents in my leathers work better than some. At highway speeds I do not overheat, not even when we had 30's temps with 90%+ humidity recently...bit different if I am not moving however.
Although you say "the skin they risk is theirs" we do all pay to have it repaired...which I think is another factor to be considered...

[dpex]

Riders who think that wearing less will keep them cooler when ambient temperatures are high (35 degree plus) are deluding themselves.

A few months ago I was privileged enough to spend several weeks riding in the USA and Canada. On some of those days the temperature ran into the high 40s and, on occasion, into the low 50s. Wearing a helmet with the visor down was essential. Imagine tailgating an F16 and you'll start to get an impression of how unrelenting and desiccating such conditions are. We stopped every half or so to take on about a litre of water. Every second stop we had a water fight to make sure that the cottons we had on under our mesh jackets got a good soaking.

Here in New Zealand I'm generally in the habit of flipping my visor open when I enter a 50kmh speed limit, just to get a bit of fresh air in my helmet. Once the temperature gets up, believe me when I say that there's no such thing as fresh air, at any speed.

The bike gets so hot you can't touch levers unless you've got gloves on. Take the ignition keys out and they're burning hot. The sheepskin seat covers were a godsend for those times we had to get back on the bike if it had been parked in the sun for a while.

Great fun, but only an idiot or a potato crisp would want to spend longer than a few minutes unclad.

You see, the prob here is speculation not supported with factual evidence.

'My' speculation, based entirely upon observed responses of my own, more than suggest that when dressed in full leathers, helmet, boots and gloves, on a burningly hot day, makes me a danger to myself and others; irrespective of my water intake. My view is, you will appreciate, both subjective and objective.

Tooling up the highway, from Rotorua, on yet another burningly hot day, dressed in a t-Shirt, jeans, shoes, and gloves allowed me to both objectively and subjectively assess my safety.

At no time did I feel any sense of heat-stress.

At no time did I accept my mind was other than focused on the task in hand.

Better yet, I remained entirely conscious of the result of even a minor splat, dressed as I was, thus my concentration was heightened; not lessened by heat stress; which would have been the case had I been wrapped in all the gear.

I can but presume I am the only rider who suffers a personality change when dressed in leathers and all the gear (because I've never asked other riders).

But when I do I develop a certain sense of safety. That leads on to me feeling the need to test it. Like the guy whom I followed today, who went into the sweeper from SH27 to the Southern Motorway, like he was Mr World biker. Dressed to kill, he was. And how he got out of the tank-slapper, halfway through the corner, neither he nor I will ever know. But he was leathered up to die for, and nearly did.

It is my view that leathers are dangerous on various fronts...heat-stress and attitude changes being two obvious. Leathers have an effect on folk.

Ask some Germans, or a few of the gals who work in B&D parlours.

Personally, I love getting leathered-up, especially on the track. Maybe I have German Kaupapa. Gawd. What a horrible thought.

[James Deuce]

You see, the prob here is speculation not supported with factual evidence.



What are you talking about? You just quoted someone talking about their own experience. Factual evidence of experience in temperatures in the 40-50C range.

Big giant fail, chap.

If it was a troll you just lamed it.

If it isn't a troll, you're probably missing half your cerebellum and I should taking the collection plate around to help with your respite care. Your Mum must need a break by now.

[mujambee]

'My' speculation, based entirely upon observed responses of my own, more than suggest that when dressed in full leathers, helmet, boots and gloves, on a burningly hot day, makes me a danger to myself and others; irrespective of my water intake. My view is, you will appreciate, both subjective and objective.

My speculation, based on living on a country where most of the summer tends to stay in the upper half of the 30-40C range, is that there is no such thing as heat-stress. I've never heard talk about it, and you can be sure I've met a lot of folks that ride on extreme heat. Maybe we are better accustomed to heat than you, maybe we dress better for heat than you...



I can but presume I am the only rider who suffers a personality change when dressed in leathers and all the gear (because I've never asked other riders).

It happened to me when I started using leathers. Now I wear my leather jacket and Gilet Wave every day; I'm so used to it that I barely notice.



Like the guy whom I followed today, who went into the sweeper from SH27 to the Southern Motorway, like he was Mr World biker. Dressed to kill, he was. And how he got out of the tank-slapper, halfway through the corner, neither he nor I will ever know. But he was leathered up to die for, and nearly did.

How can you be sure it was because of the leathers...




Ask some Germans, or a few of the gals who work in B&D parlours.

Germans? Could you explain that.

[mister.koz]

Some people are more sensitive to heat than other's; i am one of them (its gotta be the thick skull right?) My leathers are perforated so air travels quite nicely through them provided there is air movement around them.

I ride in a full black 2 piece suit (quasi) track boots black leather gloves and a black helmet - its cool i got the ninja for the hi-vis part - and i have only once suffered from heat issues once while riding (34 degrees) that was in the form of a quick slide on a river of runny tar, thankfully i kept control and didn't set the bike down but i was :eek5: scary all the same.

It seems strange to me that you can honestly say riding without protective gear is safe because you wont suffer from heat exhaustion??

Sure most gear wont protect you from bone-crushing impact but it will protect you a thousand times better from everything else. I've had stones fly up, sparrows in the knuckles, kids throwing stuff, branches across the road at chest height etc etc.

One of our guys come off when he hit a landrover, wearing leathers he had a broken arm and some broken fingers, the leather took the tearing and grinding action away.

I would rather have a broken arm than have a broken arm with all the meat torn off.

Your comments are subjective, not objective.

What next? you wont wear a helmet because it obscures your peripheral vision?

[Hitcher]

Germans? Could you explain that.

There's no explaining Germans.

[mujambee]

What next? you wont wear a helmet because it obscures your peripheral vision?

I've hear that discussed a while back. Some people claimed that in the city it is better not to wear a helmet, as it reduces your hearing and peripheral vision to some extent. :eek5:

[mister.koz]

I've hear that discussed a while back. Some people claimed that in the city it is better not to wear a helmet, as it reduces your hearing and peripheral vision to some extent. :eek5:

I guess Darwins theory may play a role in modern society after all :whistle:

[Muppet]

Glad I was wearing the gear I was when I came off. Used to think soft armour was crapola but I've changed my mind now! There's a rather large fellow riding around CH-CH on a dark coloured jap cruiser, he wears a t-shirt, shorts, no footwear, no gloves and an open face helmet that looks older than me. All I can think of is what he'll look like when he comes off.:doctor:

[tracyprier]

EDIT: My point, really, is that we shoudln't judge others as if they're clones of ourselves. You may not like the way they dress but, for them, it may be appropriate. On the other hand they may be complete idiots - it is not for us to judge. After all, the skin they risk IS theirs.

While on the whole I agree with you... this is NZ and my taxes help to fund their idiocy... or recovery from.

If this was the states and we all paid medical insurance I'd say "go for it... ya big eejit, your skin"

I swapped my leather for mesh gear for summer and love it :) so much better in the slow commute than leather.

Cheers
Tracy

[Quasievil]

Wear Gear People. AAAAANNNNDDDD if its to wet dont ride and if its to hot dont ride, but if you do ride wear your gear.

wanna try racing at Paeroa in a Hot humid Feb day sheeeeesh...............wear ya gear :Punk:

[mister.koz]

Wear Gear People. AAAAANNNNDDDD if its to wet dont ride and if its to hot dont ride, but if you do ride wear your gear.

wanna try racing at Paeroa in a Hot humid Feb day sheeeeesh...............wear ya gear :Punk:

:laugh: and what gear should we wear?

[klingon]

Wear Gear People. AAAAANNNNDDDD if its to wet dont ride and if its to hot dont ride, but if you do ride wear your gear.
...

I don't understand this bit. Too wet? So far I've never seen it too wet to ride. (I did hear about a guy who accidentally rode into a swimming pool once. That was probably too wet.)

[Quasievil]

I don't understand this bit. Too wet? So far I've never seen it too wet to ride. (I did hear about a guy who accidentally rode into a swimming pool once. That was probably too wet.)

Depends on the individual really eh, if youre not comfortable with the conditions why ride...simple
Same as on the track do what you can not what you cant, no point crashing eh.

but do anything without the gear and youre a fool and one day you will crash and the first thing that comes through ya head as youre flying through the air is "fuck I wish I had some gear on" no one ever said the opposite did they ??

[MarkH]

but do anything without the gear and youre a fool and one day you will crash and the first thing that comes through ya head as youre flying through the air is "fuck I wish I had some gear on" no one ever said the opposite did they ??

That is so true. In hot weather I wear my Dragin Jeans, cause it is just too hot to wear my Quasimoto leathers, but I still wear my boots & gloves & jacket & helmet. My Dragin Jeans may not be as good as leather pants in an off, but they would protect me a shitload better than shorts. If you can't wear a leather jacket in the heat of summer then a mesh jacket has to be a better option than a t-shirt.

[mikeey01]

If you want to ride a bike with jandals, tee-shirt and no gloves then by all means go ahead.

When, not if but when you come off wearing the above come back here and tell us all about it, with pics please!

Seriously if ya think wearing none will save ya, then by all means go ahead.
If you want to really want to know what the merits of wearing gear is then go ask those that see the results of a bin, that'd be the ambo lads or A&E staff, ask them what happens. They know!

[The Stranger]

I have just reported you skidmark for having multiple log ons.

[The Stranger]

Two words.

"perforated leather"

Although nothing more should need be said, it obviously does.
For all the guys with sweaty ichy arse, dick or flaps - perforated leather.
For everyone thinking of binning because you are too hot - preforated fucking leather.


AND JUST RIDE FASTER!

[swbarnett]

Although you say "the skin they risk is theirs" we do all pay to have it repaired...which I think is another factor to be considered...
It's a price I'm willing to pay to maintain freedom of thought.

[swbarnett]

While on the whole I agree with you... this is NZ and my taxes help to fund their idiocy... or recovery from.
See above...


I swapped my leather for mesh gear for summer and love it :) so much better in the slow commute than leather.
This is why I started wearing Cordura. I must admit, I'd never heard if "mesh gear" or "perforated leather" as The Stranger mentioned. Might invest in something of that ilk next summer.