Privatising the prison system discussion.

[skidMark]

There was a topic on newstalk ZB a couple of days ago, regarding if our prisons should be privately owned, to take the pressure off the government, run for profit etc etc... obviously the companys who own them to turn a buck will be making them all work....

Okay so they pay them sweet fook all you know $1 an hour or something (just as a random number im just running through a thought process here)

If this labour is cheaper to be done by prisoners, are we not going to get the same situation of people having products made in say china etc...

Taking the low end jobs away from those currently doing them, as production costs are lower because they can pay prisoners less...

So i have the view that it would actually be a very bad move to have a prison privately owned...

Because in summary the low end jobs go from the genuine workers, so what is going to happen, even less jobs around when it is hard enough to get one now, does this not mean the crime rate will infact increase? pushing the prisons the an even higher population, therefore making more profit for the owners of the prison.

Anybody else have thoughts on this?

Skid.

[spudchucka]

They should contract the corrections out to the Chinese or other such hard-nosed country, export the crims over there for their time and I'm sure that they wouldn't want to be going back any time soon.

[skidMark]

They should contract the corrections out to the Chinese or other such hard-nosed country, export the crims over there for their time and I'm sure that they wouldn't want to be going back any time soon.


Thats another thought, i mean we could already have them all doing volunteer work.... recovering old couches for the underpriveledged etc etc...

But if privatised this wont happen as they will trying to be running it for profit, and it you are making a product obviously the cheaper the labour the better, taking it away from those who actually need them.

[SPman]

The only people who should have the authority to take away a citizens freedom and lock him up, is the state, not a privately owned company or corporation! Private corporations should not be running prisons except under the strictest conditions.
From the look of what's going through in this new bill, that's not going to happen.
The only work prisoners should be doing is community,non profit work, or planting forests or something, not competing in the marketplace against regular workers.

[AllanB]

The only work prisoners should be doing is community,non profit work, or planting forests or something, not competing in the marketplace against regular workers.


Agree 100% - there must be heaps of suitable projects that most could do - a chain-gang could walk through central Christchurch at 3am picking up the bottles of V and fast food wrappers the youth leave lying about (WTF is it with that?).


I do wonder though if they privatise the prisons, would there be a better class of anal raping?

[R6_kid]

Maybe they should privatise the unemployment benefit aswell. Either that or give them council/government/roading jobs and start help the country forward rather than hold it back.

[The Stranger]

Okay so they pay them sweet fook all you know $1 an hour or something (just as a random number im just running through a thought process here)



So is there some suggestion that the crims are going to have to work to make the prison viable or are you just scared they will make you work when they cotton on to your benefit fraud?

[skidMark]

Maybe they should privatise the unemployment benefit aswell. Either that or give them council/government/roading jobs and start help the country forward rather than hold it back.

Sweet, doesn't effect me.


So is there some suggestion that the crims are going to have to work to make the prison viable or are you just scared they will make you work when they cotton on to your benefit fraud?


Fraud, what fraud?

This thread isn't about all that shit so cut it now.

This is a proper discussion not a skidMark abuse thread so grow the fuck up, bunch of bully's. Don't you have wooden blocks to try stack?

[The Stranger]

Fraud, what fraud?

Oh I dunno, people hanging around on the sickness benefit when there is nothing wrong with them - lazy isn't really a sickness.

Doesn't sound remotely economically viable - unless perhaps they have cameras set up and run it like big brother - or in your case little sister.

[skidMark]

Oh I dunno, people hanging around on the sickness benefit when there is nothing wrong with them - lazy isn't really a sickness.

Doesn't sound remotely economically viable - unless perhaps they have cameras set up and run it like big brother - or in your case little sister.


Invalids, not sickness, big difference.

A sickness is 45 year old men chasing 16 year old girls.

Want to keep going Noel?

[AllanB]

A sickness is 45 year old men chasing 16 year old girls.


In a discussion regarding the legal system, the above is oddly enough LEGAL! :girlfight:

Now a moral discussion........:mad:

[The Stranger]

Invalids, not sickness, big difference.

A sickness is 45 year old men chasing 16 year old girls.

Want to keep going Noel?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, WTF, you poor bastard you really think that's going worry me - I posted it.

[Gubb]

Good luck making the Prisoners pay to stay there.

Be a pretty shit Motel.

[skidMark]

In a discussion regarding the legal system, the above is oddly enough LEGAL! :girlfight:

Now a moral discussion........:mad:


She was 15 when they started dating... and funnily enough this was my thread which i made.... for a proper discussion...

They are the monkeys who came in flicking thier turds.

[The Stranger]

She was 15 when they started dating... and funnily enough this was my thread which i made.... for a proper discussion...

They are the monkeys who came in flicking thier turds.

Jesus skiddy, I just asked if there was some suggestion the crims were going to have to earn their keep and some invalid got all pissy about it.

[skidMark]

So is there some suggestion that the crims are going to have to work to make the prison viable or are you just scared they will make you work when they cotton on to your benefit fraud?


Jesus skiddy, I just asked if there was some suggestion the crims were going to have to earn their keep and some invalid got all pissy about it.

Contradicting yaself there Noel.

[reofix]

Call for tenders around the world to take our prisoners for the length of their sentence... Bolivia might take a 100 or so to clean their sewers ... only stipulation prisoner must be returned alive at end of sentence... condition apart from that ... immaterial

[The Stranger]

Contradicting yaself there Noel.

Well, I'm convinced.
You really do qualify for the invalids benefit.

[Mully]

Private corporations should not be running prisons except under the strictest conditions.
.

Bingo.

I think if privatisation is done properly with strict performance controls and penalties for non-performance on the company running it, it could be a goer.

Obviously, some smart people with suits and offices would have to work out the contracts.

[skidMark]

Bingo.

I think if privatisation is done properly with strict performance controls and penalties for non-performance on the company running it, it could be a goer.

Obviously, some smart people with suits and offices would have to work out the contracts.


Yeah the problem is how are these private companys going to make money without taking jobs from other genuine people.....

Doesn't matter what product they make, somebody who is deserving of it and the money could have it...

It is very much a moral dilemma.

[Mully]

Yeah the problem is how are these private companys going to make money without taking jobs from other genuine people.....

Doesn't matter what product they make, somebody who is deserving of it and the money could have it...

It is very much a moral dilemma.

Not really.

They get paid X dollars per year per prisoner. Minus Y dollars per escape. Minus Z Dollars per suicide/serious assult in custody. And they are legislatively restricted away from what they can do in industry.

The government retains ownership of the land and the buildings are leased to the prison companies.

[Robert Taylor]

Call for tenders around the world to take our prisoners for the length of their sentence... Bolivia might take a 100 or so to clean their sewers ... only stipulation prisoner must be returned alive at end of sentence... condition apart from that ... immaterial

How about giving them do it yourself suicide kits, those that successfully exercise that option will save taxpayers millions.

[gatch]

chain them together and make em march up and down the side of the road collecting rubbish, they get $1 an hour + $1/kilo of in-organic waste.

If rubbish is found on their patch, they get fined, if they find money it goes towards new whips, ankle cuffs, and stainless polish for the guards mossbergs..

See how many repeat offenders then..

[skidMark]

chain them together and make em march up and down the side of the road collecting rubbish, they get $1 an hour + $1/kilo of in-organic waste.

If rubbish is found on their patch, they get fined, if they find money it goes towards new whips, ankle cuffs, and stainless polish for the guards mossbergs..

See how many repeat offenders then..


painting over tagging... etc etc

i think you may get some re offend though, pissed off from thier treatment.

Id prefer they were in padded rooms with no way of exercise and only fed rice...

So when they get out they are weak powerless and couldn't hurt a fly.

[Mr Merde]

Privatisation sounds like a good idea to me.

The company could offer a minimum level of comfort and anything else could be supplied at a cost to the prisoner or their families.

Make those inside pay their way so that we the taxpayers dont have to support them in semi luxury.

If they want study faciliuties then they should pay for them. If they want TV then they pay for it.

I'm tired of those persons who have been convicted of criminal behaviour living off the backs of us, their potential victims.

[Finn]

The only people who should have the authority to take away a citizens freedom and lock him up, is the state

Yes and it's called the court. Privatising prisons is good.

[EatOrBeEaten]

Privatisation sounds like a good idea to me.

The company could offer a minimum level of comfort and anything else could be supplied at a cost to the prisoner or their families.

Make those inside pay their way so that we the taxpayers dont have to support them in semi luxury.

If they want study faciliuties then they should pay for them. If they want TV then they pay for it.

I'm tired of those persons who have been convicted of criminal behaviour living off the backs of us, their potential victims.
So the Mr. Bigs and fraudsters can spend their sentence in luxury, while a poor idiot in for theft or whatever lives in shitty, basic conditions? That's the model prisons in places like Columbia are run on, doesn't strike me as a sensible way forward.

Given the number of reoffences, there has to be a better method of punishment AND rehabilitation than just locking someone up so they can learn better B&E methods for a few months...

[Indiana_Jones]

painting over tagging... etc etc

i think you may get some re offend though, pissed off from thier treatment.




Well the lefty, touchy-feely method has failed.

-Indy

[skidMark]

Yes and it's called the court. Privatising prisons is good.


Wow finn i agree with you, ya mustve hit puberty!, and luck with the growth spurt?

[Mully]

Given the number of reoffences, there has to be a better method of punishment AND rehabilitation than just locking someone up so they can learn better B&E methods for a few months...

Yep, it's called a bullet.

Punishes them (they won't do it again) and rehabilitates them (as compost, mainly)

And costs about 3c a go.

[Swoop]

Given the number of reoffences, there has to be a better method of punishment...
Yup. Make it into a place that a person would not want to return to.

[skidMark]

Yup. Make it into a place that a person would not want to return to.


Yeah, heated floors and tv's arn't helping....

A little box....no windows... make them watch videos on how a proper person acts... courtesy..manners etc....

For thier 20 year sentance.

[Mr Merde]

So the Mr. Bigs and fraudsters can spend their sentence in luxury, while a poor idiot in for theft or whatever lives in shitty, basic conditions? That's the model prisons in places like Columbia are run on, doesn't strike me as a sensible way forward.

Given the number of reoffences, there has to be a better method of punishment AND rehabilitation than just locking someone up so they can learn better B&E methods for a few months...

Call me a reactionary, call me a redneck but personally I just dont care. They are in prison, if they cant afford to make their lives more comfortable then tough and if they can then we the taxpayer will not be forking out for them.

Mr\Mrs\Ms Big gets caught ripping off a lot of dosh. He\she gets sentenced to a number of years and has to spend that dosh making himself\herself comfortable, good. Why should they be able to holiday at our expense and when they come out live of their illegal earnings which have been tucked away in a bank all those years, earning interest.

3 strike rule and life in prison.

Shit, I'd have everyone of them doing hard labour if it were3 at all possible. Make the bastards give back something to those of us who live by the law beit legal or social.

[EatOrBeEaten]

Call me a reactionary, call me a redneck but personally I just dont care. They are in prison, if they cant afford to make their lives more comfortable then tough and if they can then we the taxpayer will not be forking out for them.

Mr\Mrs\Ms Big gets caught ripping off a lot of dosh. He\she gets sentenced to a number of years and has to spend that dosh making himself\herself comfortable, good. Why should they be able to holiday at our expense and when they come out live of their illegal earnings which have been tucked away in a bank all those years, earning interest.

3 strike rule and life in prison.

Shit, I'd have everyone of them doing hard labour if it were3 at all possible. Make the bastards give back something to those of us who live by the law beit legal or social.
Personally I'm in favour of seeing the proceeds of crime go towards paying back some of the damage done by the offender, rather than paying a private company to install flatscreens in prison hotel rooms cells.

FWIW I see the results of crime and people in prison all the time. I used to be a proper leftie type until I started working in state schools in London and saw the effect that drugs, gangs etc. had on the kids I taught. The situation isn't as bad here in South AKL but it's still pretty bad! They saw going to prison for a spell as a badge of honour, that you were to be taken seriously. There's something wrong with a justice system that sends people out worse than when they went in...

[peasea]

Shit, I'd have everyone of them doing hard labour.

You're not alone and I am of the opinion that this is the perfect opportunity for the Govt to repair the rail lines at reasonable cost. Put prisoners on chain gangs to fix the railways, chuck em in secure huts overnight and they get all the exercise they can cope with during the day. We'd have a magnificent rail system in no time. Same goes for the dole collectors. No work, no pay. I don't mind people who are down on their luck getting some assistance but they should work for it; then I'm sure if something better came along they'd pounce on it.

Paying people to do nothing is bullshit. Giving prisoners free accommodation and food is bullshit. They should be breaking rocks, filling in potholes or fixing the railways to give something back to the communities they have committed crimes against.:argh:

[Indiana_Jones]

I'd like to see them break rocks.

Just hard labour for the sake of it

-Indy

[EatOrBeEaten]

You're not alone and I am of the opinion that this is the perfect opportunity for the Govt to repair the rail lines at reasonable cost. Put prisoners on chain gangs to fix the railways, chuck em in secure huts overnight and they get all the exercise they can cope with during the day. We'd have a magnificent rail system in no time. Same goes for the dole collectors. No work, no pay. I don't mind people who are down on their luck getting some assistance but they should work for it; then I'm sure if something better came along they'd pounce on it.

Paying people to do nothing is bullshit. Giving prisoners free accommodation and food is bullshit. They should be breaking rocks, filling in potholes or fixing the railways to give something back to the communities they have committed crimes against.:argh:
I'm in favour of the idea of getting unemployed people to contribute at least something to society in terms of time spent learning a trade/some work (means assessed of course). I used to teach kids that were FOURTH generation unemployed! They had no concept of a work ethic or a life outside of poverty and the sink estate they lived in :(

As for prisoners, they have inmates in the US sewing mailbags etc. and it doesn't seem to lower their reoffending rates any! That said, if I could solve the issue of justice and state punishment I wouldn't be sitting here typing about it on a bikers bulletin board :D

[Mully]

FWIW, there is actually a good reason for new prisons having underfloor heating and panel TVs.

These items, while more expensive than normal heating and TV screens, are unable to be used as a weapon in a fight - i.e. the old radiators and TVs used to be ripped from the wall and thrown at someone.

Not only does this mean they can't be used as a weapon, it means they don't have to be replaced all the time, which means their lifetime cost (for us business graduates) is actually comparable or lower than that the old gear.

Still we should just shoot the fuckers, then we wouldn't have to worry about it.

[Indiana_Jones]

A sickness is 45 year old men chasing 16 year old girls.



Noel is my hero :niceone:

-Indy

[SPman]

There's something wrong with a justice system that sends people out worse than when they went in...
Correct!
The whole system is so fucked, about the only way to cure it, is to wipe out the entire population and start again!

Any one got some black plague virus hanging around, to slip into the system.........

[peasea]

I'm in favour of the idea of getting unemployed people to contribute at least something to society in terms of time spent learning a trade/some work (means assessed of course). I used to teach kids that were FOURTH generation unemployed! They had no concept of a work ethic or a life outside of poverty and the sink estate they lived in :(

As for prisoners, they have inmates in the US sewing mailbags etc. and it doesn't seem to lower their reoffending rates any! That said, if I could solve the issue of justice and state punishment I wouldn't be sitting here typing about it on a bikers bulletin board :D

Good points. What DO you do with them?

I went a bit skeewiff as a teen and I ended up doing some community service and then PD. The judge said "That's your last warning" and I took note. My last conviction (other than minor traffic shit) was 27 years ago and while I'm still happy to call a fuckwit cop just that (if he/she is one, no point in antagonising them for no reason) I have no desire to expand my 'form'. In fact that last conviction WAS traffic shit but I wouldn't call it 'minor'.

Anyway, I listened to that judge, many don't.

[peasea]

Correct!
The whole system is so fucked, about the only way to cure it, is to wipe out the entire population and start again!

Any one got some black plague virus hanging around, to slip into the system.........

Hasn't the 'system' already got a black plague?

[Mr Merde]

....
Still we should just shoot the fuckers, then we wouldn't have to worry about it.

And I thought I was a redneck. I'm impressed


Hasn't the 'system' already got a black plague?

How many think this but havent the bolloocks to express it so suscinctly?

[skidMark]

And I thought I was a redneck. I'm impressed



How many think this but havent the bolloocks to express it so suscinctly?


Most people have this opinion most dont have the bollocks.

They were talking about seperate prisons for maori....

Who the fuck are they going to put in the other prisons then, just rename the current one.

[Mully]

And I thought I was a redneck. I'm impressed


Mine's more beige.

I just don't agree with continuing to throw money at the problem when it's not going to fix it. The problem here being repeat, violent offenders.

Actually, if we use Bows and arrows, we can recycle the arrows to get better value.

[Max Preload]

Prisoners should never be engaged in productive work. Digging holes and filling them in again is perfectly adequate use of their time..

[davereid]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that prisoners should be made to work to make a profit for private companies.

It costs $80 - $90,000 a year to keep a prisoner in jail.

The private sector can keep someone on the "Pacific Princess" cruising around the world for half that.

Private prisons will have to meet the same standards as state ones. The difference is that they will tender for the job, and the expectation is, that they will be able to offer the same service at a lower cost.

The issue of the standard of care we give prisoners, is separate.

[EatOrBeEaten]

Prisoners should never be engaged in productive work. Digging holes and filling them in again is perfectly adequate use of their time..
In the UK, prison guards have the nickname "screws" (no idea if that caught on here). The reason being that in the Victorian era, inmates would spend their days turning a large handle attached to a screw. It didn't do anything, they just sat. And screwed. It had a counter on it so they could see how many time's they'd done it too, and so the warders could see that they were doing as they were told.

[peasea]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that prisoners should be made to work to make a profit for private companies.

It costs $80 - $90,000 a year to keep a prisoner in jail.

The private sector can keep someone on the "Pacific Princess" cruising around the world for half that.

Private prisons will have to meet the same standards as state ones. The difference is that they will tender for the job, and the expectation is, that they will be able to offer the same service at a lower cost.

The issue of the standard of care we give prisoners, is separate.

The whole thing does seem over-priced, doesn't it? Even if they turned soil to grow veges for the old and infirmed it would be something. I know the plant nursery in Parry does a bit for local authorities but in a recession you don't want to take work from those who are prepared to work. It's a toughie but I still say they have it too easy.

[Clockwork]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that prisoners should be made to work to make a profit for private companies.

It costs $80 - $90,000 a year to keep a prisoner in jail.

The private sector can keep someone on the "Pacific Princess" cruising around the world for half that.

Private prisons will have to meet the same standards as state ones. The difference is that they will tender for the job, and the expectation is, that they will be able to offer the same service at a lower cost.

The issue of the standard of care we give prisoners, is separate.

Well then why don't we just send them on cruises instead! Armed Robbery? that'll be 5 years on the Pacific Princess. (should save us all a fortune) But then everyone would complain about how cushy the prison ships are.

I'm sorry, I simply can't see why a private company would be able to provide the same standard of service for less money and still make a profit. Please explain how this works.

[scumdog]

I'm sorry, I simply can't see why a private company would be able to provide the same standard of service for less money and still make a profit. Please explain how this works.

Who says the 'standard' HAS to be the same??

Cheaper blankets, make prisoners provide their own clothes at their expense, 2nd rate tucker (and less of it) old newspaper for dunny-paper, there's so many way to make prison seem less like Butlins..and save money.

[SARGE]

Got this from my sis....



maricopa county was spending approx. $18 million dollars a year on stray animals, like cats and dogs. Sheriff joe offered to take the department over, and the county supervisors said okay.

The animal shelters are now all staffed and operated by prisoners. They feed and care for the strays. Every animal in his care is taken out and walked twice daily. He now has prisoners who are experts in animal nutrition and behavior. They give great classes for anyone who'd like to adopt an animal. He has literally taken stray dogs off the street, given them to the care of prisoners, and had them place in dog shows.

The best part? His budget for the entire department is now under $3 million. Teresa and i adopted a weimaraner from a maricopa county shelter two years ago. He was neutered, and current on all shots, in great health, and even had a microchip inserted the day we got him. Cost us $78.

The prisoners get the benefit of about $0.28 an hour for working, but most would work for free, just to be out of their cells for the day. Most of his budget is for utilities, building maintenance, etc. He pays the prisoners out of the fees collected for adopted animals.

I have long wondered when the rest of the country would take a look at the way he runs the jail system, and copy some of his ideas. He has a huge farm, donated to the county years ago, where inmates can work, and they grow most of their own fresh vegetables and food, doing all the work and harvesting by hand.

He has a pretty good sized hog farm, which provides meat, and fertilizer. It fertilizes the christmas tree nursery, where prisoners work, and you can buy a living christmas tree for $6 - $8 for the holidays, and plant it later. We have six trees in our yard from the prison.

Yup, he was reelected last year with 83% of the vote.
Now he's in trouble with the aclu again. He painted all his buses and vehicles with a mural, that has a special hotline phone number painted on it, where you can call and report suspected illegal aliens. Immigrations and customs enforcement wasn't doing enough in his eyes, so he had 40 deputies trained specifically for enforcing immigration laws, started up his hotline, and bought 4 new buses just for hauling folks back to the border. He's kind of a 'git-r dun' kind of sheriff.

To those of you not familiar with joe arpaio

he is the maricopa arizona county sheriff

and he keeps getting elected over and over
this is one of the reasons why:

Sheriff joe arpaio (in arizona ) who created the ' tent city jail':
He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them.

He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away their weights cut off all but 'g' movies.

He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and city projects.

Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get
sued for discrimination.

He took away cable tv until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable tv for jails so he hooked up the cable tv again only let in the disney channel and the weather channel.

When asked why the weather channel he replied, so they will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working
on my chain gangs.

He cut off coffee since it has zero nutritional value.

When the inmates complained, he told them, 'this isn't the ritz/carlton......if you don't like it, don't come back.'


more on the arizona sheriff:

With temperatures being even hotter than usual in phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record), the associated press reports:
About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent encampment at themaricopa county jail have been given permission to strip down to their government-issued
pink boxer shorts.

On wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached
138 degrees inside the week before.

Many were also swathed in wet, pink towels as sweat collected on their chests and dripped down to their pink socks.

'it feels like we are in a furnace,' said james zanzot, an inmate who has lived in the tents for 1 year. 'it's inhumane.'

joe arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and long ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic. He said wednesday that he told all of the inmates: 'it's 120 degrees in iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and they have to wear full battle gear,
but they didn't commit any crimes, so shut your mouths!'

way to go, sheriff!

Maybe if all prisons were like this one there would be a lot less crime and/or repeat offenders. Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for their parole, only to go out and commit another crime so they can get back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves.

Source was from a forwarded email...

[Mully]

I'm sorry, I simply can't see why a private company would be able to provide the same standard of service for less money and still make a profit. Please explain how this works.

Plus much fewer "managers" and "supervisors" and "team leaders" with the associated cost.

[Clockwork]

Who says the 'standard' HAS to be the same??

Cheaper blankets, make prisoners provide their own clothes at their expense, 2nd rate tucker (and less of it) old newspaper for dunny-paper, there's so many way to make prison seem less like Butlins..and save money.


Fine. I have no problem with that but.... if a private company can cut those corners then so can the Government. So where does their margin come from?

Look, I'm simply saying that all things being equal I can see no reason why any private company should ever be able to do anything cheaper than the Government and still provide a return to share holders.

[spudchucka]

Fine. I have no problem with that but.... if a private company can cut those corners then so can the Government. So where does their margin come from?

Look, I'm simply saying that all things being equal I can see no reason why any private company should ever be able to do anything cheaper than the Government and still provide a return to share holders.

There's a very good reason why the private sector is able to do things cheaper and better than the Govt.... they aren't inflicted with the disease called Government Bureaucracy!

[Katman]

Anybody else have thoughts on this?



Yeah. All dole bludgers should have the 'opinion' portion of their brain removed.

[Mully]

but.... if a private company can cut those corners then so can the Government. So where does their margin come from?


Cos private companies don't have the same "wowser-attention" factor, mainly

[malfunconz]

its pathetic that so much attention is accorded the dumbies who end up in the care of the prison system.Regardless of what it costs and who can do it cheaper or whatever . The fact toerags find it comfortable to return or choice to go to prison in the first place indicates that its to soft an option. Surely we should tender out the care of the dumbies to some little hot island nation near the equator and let them prosper and save us the misery of paying excessive ammounts for there care here in nz when they can chew on a taro and stare at sand fleas all day.

[skidMark]

Yeah. All dole bludgers should have the 'opinion' portion of their brain removed.


Says the P head...

[Skyryder]

I personly find it repugnent that a private company and it's shareholders can make a profit from crime commited against our society.

That Key and his cohorts see this as a form of competition further confirms my opinion of our Prim Minister in that he is unfilt to hold this office.

The states institutions i.e. the courts, remove those from our society that are unfit and can not be trusted to abide by our laws. As such the responsibility to house and keep these people is the states. That Key is prepared to 'pass the buck' to a privatly owned company confirms my opinion of this man.

Key has spoken on personal responsibility but when it comes down to his own as our PM and his responibility it is another story. The man is a sham.


Skyryder

[Quasievil]

Yeah. All dole bludgers should have the 'opinion' portion of their brain removed.

I agree over opinionated bludgers should also loose the right to vote and ride motorcycles.

[SARGE]

I agree over opinionated bludgers should also loose the right to vote and ride motorcycles.


but Skiddy is HANDICAPPED !!!!


(I personally think if a handicap wont qualify you for the Special Olympics, it shouldn't qualify you for the dole .. )

[1 Free Man]

Call for tenders around the world to take our prisoners for the length of their sentence... Bolivia might take a 100 or so to clean their sewers ... only stipulation prisoner must be returned alive at end of sentence... condition apart from that ... immaterial
Yep that would be the plan.. I believe currently it costs in the region of $60-70K per year to keep the crims in NZ.
If they went to contract lockup in Bolivia and cost Half that $30-35K per year plus airfair one way the NZ taxpayer is way ahead already. Why complicate matters with stipulations that the crims be returned alive??
If they don't come back return airfair is a further saving to the NZ taxpayer. TOTAL WIN WIN SITUATION HERE FOR SURE!

[Mully]

Shit, Skyryder, it took you 60 posts to make this about John Key being Satan.

You're slipping, man.

[MSTRS]

I personly ...is a sham.


Skyryder

I've chopped out the useless stuff for the sake of server space.
Privately run prisons is not a new idea, and the only reason that Liarbour would not champion it, is that they would see it as giving control to someone else...

[Clockwork]

There's a very good reason why the private sector is able to do things cheaper and better than the Govt.... they aren't inflicted with the disease called Government Bureaucracy!

If bureaucracy is the problem, combat the bureaucracy. I work for a large privately owned corperation and the Government could teach us nothing about bureaucracy!!

If bureaucracy is the problem why just stop with the Prison Service? Maybe we could have a private Police Force too. (I'll buy shares in the Traffic division and the IRD too if it comes to that!!)

[spudchucka]

If bureaucracy is the problem, combat the bureaucracy. I work for a large privately owned corperation and the Government could teach us nothing about bureaucracy!!

If bureaucracy is the problem why just stop with the Prison Service? Maybe we could have a private Police Force too. (I'll buy shares in the Traffic division and the IRD too if it comes to that!!)

Fine, I'll join the traffic branch so long as I get 2% commission on any tickets that I write.

[Winston001]

Have to admit to being uneasy about privately-run prisons but they exist in other jurisdictions. We should learn from them as to what works and what doesn't.

Really the core problem is our high imprisonment rate - second only to the USA among OECD countries. Even the Aussies who aren't a tolerant bunch jail less than us. So what's gone wrong?

[Clockwork]

Fine, I'll join the traffic branch so long as I get 2% commission on any tickets that I write.

No worries.... I will provide incentive payments (and quotas) but they wont be quite that generous! Gotta see the shareholders right first don'tcha know :msn-wink:

[JMemonic]

Plus much fewer "managers" and "supervisors" and "team leaders" with the associated cost.

Lol I know of Govt departments that have less of this over head rubbish than some private corporations.

[JMemonic]

Fine, I'll join the traffic branch so long as I get 2% commission on any tickets that I write.

Hell I know retail stores that don't get as good as that and the works similar in that, all the "customers" figure they know more than you, about every aspect of your job, nothing you ever do is right by management and your have imposable sale targets to reach.

[Mully]

Lol I know of Govt departments that have less of this over head rubbish than some private corporations.

This is true - however, most of the private companies only have shareholders' money to spend, not my fricken tax dollars.

[Skyryder]

I've chopped out the useless stuff for the sake of server space.
Privately run prisons is not a new idea, and the only reason that Liarbour would not champion it, is that they would see it as giving control to someone else...


Yep that's the stuff that is too difficult to debate.

In 2000 to 2005 the Australian company that ran the Auckland remand prison was costing the NZ taxpayer $43000 per prison inmate while Corrections Department costs per prisoner for the same period was $36000. That’s a difference of $7000 dollars per prisoner.

The Australian company, contracted by a National-led Government in the late 1990s, also provided a reduced service. It refused to admit prisoners after 6.30pm when its day shift staff went home. Now Corrections are running the prison again, prisoners are admitted at night to accommodate those that arrive late from courts or after being transported from another prison.
National are not talking about the problems that the British system is having with privately run prisons. A survey conducted in 2008 and leaked to the media showed that 10 of 11 Britains private prisons ranked in the bottom quarter of a league table covering 132 prisons. The privately-managed prisons scored badly on security and maintaining order and control.

The lowest ranked prison was Peterbough prison which has been privately managed for three years. It has a poor record for organisational effectiveness, decency and reducing re-offending. "The Prison Governors Association in Britain is now urging the British government to re-think its policy of allowing private companies to run prisons.

Bottomline on this is with private prisons there is no incentive for any kind of rehabilitation. If you think Key is giving a toss about the safety of kiwis you had better get your head outa the sand. Hey why not save server space and blip this too................ Beats putting ya head in the sand or into the too hard basket.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Shit, Skyryder, it took you 60 posts to make this about John Key being Satan.

You're slipping, man.


Jeeez you actualy count how long it takes for me to post. Just wait until the salmon start to run..........................you might have to use an abacus.

Skyryder

[Mully]

Jeeez you actualy count how long it takes for me to post. Just wait until the salmon start to run..........................you might have to use an abacus.

Skyryder

Nah, it was easy - the numbers appear on the posts.

It just doesn't usually take you 60 posts to turn any thread in to a thread about how it's (anything) is National's (generally) or John Key's (specifically) fault.

[Skyryder]

Nah, it was easy - the numbers appear on the posts.

It just doesn't usually take you 60 posts to turn any thread in to a thread about how it's (anything) is National's (generally) or John Key's (specifically) fault.

Key is the only one fronting up to the media. English made a cock both times he went on stage. McCully looks a prize dick and has no idea on Foreign Affairs. I think he's only been on once. Collins fronts up and gets the title Crusher. Like that's a good monicker for a Minister and a female one at that.

Anne Tolley seems to be onto something when she talks about school bullying but clearly is unaware of the new curriculum. Dick Smith does not trust the second in command of ACC and nursmaids her at a select committe. Like that's gota say something about both of them.

I don't give Key much savvy in the political department. Sure he's riding a wave of popular support but when the shit hits the fan Key's the one who's gonna cop all the flack as he is the one that most people see as the epitime of the Nats. I see he's done another turn around but there has been so many I've lost count and the new one I can not remember for the life of me.

All in all Key is the softest target in the Nat's lineup. It's not apparent to most yet. He's got a mentor somewhere. He gets it right too few times that someone has to be guiding him. Otherwise he'd just be a complete failure. Like turning up at the ACT conference as a speaker. Shit that should tell most what coat Key is really wearing. That was not a smart move and this will come back to haunt him. like I said a few post back ACT are so quet that this should give kiwi's some concern but I think most still give him the benifit of the doubt. He lost that with me when he lied and then it was a few days later before he offered any kind of apology and that was for political purposes not remorse.


Skyryder