Crash test dummy: Draggin' Jeans get thumbs down

[slowpoke]

A couple of weeks ago I had a short sharp disagreement with a fellow road user regarding the ownership of a certain section of road. Seeing as how I was on the bike and the other party was in a truck I rapidly came to the conclusion that discretion was the better part of valour and ran off the road with my tail between my legs.

Long story short: on a blind series of two r/h corners (classic statistic:1km from home) the truck had decided to take them both as one big curve and I came 'round the first corner to find the truck using most of my side of the road. As the road is only 5m wide at this point that didn't leave a lot of room for muggins here. A flick left and back right again had me thinking "Phew!".....right until the road came up to meet me. A patch of the road shoulder eaten away consumed the last inch I needed and the cash register started clocking up the dollar signs as the bike slid down a small bank like a seal into the sea while I skidded to halt on the road with a lil' forward roll thrown in at the end to impress the judges. Three days before I was supposed to chase, oops I mean race, at Paeroa my timing was impeccable......

I won't go into most of the usual bike damage from what was a fairly low speed crash (approx 40-50kph) but I thought it worthwhile to comment on the Draggin' Jeans I was wearing. While I realised they provide virtually no impact protection I was suprised at how poor they were at protecting from abrasions. I came down on my right knee, hip and shoulder. My shoulder still isn't right but the CE armour in my Dianese textile jacket has kept things in one piece (I think...) and I hate to think how many pieces it would be in without the armour.

In contrast I wore/tore through the Draggin's kevlar on the knee with a fairly "meaty" abrasion resulting, along with abrasions around that from the actual kevlar itself. I also lost a bit of skin high and low on my hip which would have been worse had I not been wearing a substantial belt to hold 'em up over my skinny arse. The fault here is the kevlar lining only just reaches the edge of your hip and as you slide along the pants ride around just a tad and you end up wearing through the jeans/skin rather than the kevlar next to it. Of course your jacket rides up too, hence the skin loss further up.

So, just a word of caution when choosing your bike gear: Draggin's are not a get out of jail free card, even in a low speed accident.

They're better than standard jeans and I'd consider them for commuting in the city, but that's about it. As I live rurally and mostly ride country roads at open road speeds I'll be looking at other alternatives and won't bother replacing them.

By contrast I didn't even know I'd banged my head until I saw my Shoei XR1000 was scratched up (visor too, would have been my cheek had I been wearing an open face helmet), thanks Mr Shoei.

Same to you Mr Teknic. My gloves had lost the leather off the palm heel but the kangaroo skin proved it's superior abrasion resistance by appearing scuffed but completely intact.

My Alpine Star SM-X boot ankle armouring was also nicely ground away which would have meant a trip to reconstructive surgery had I been wearing something less substantial.

Not wanting to shit in my own nest with my country neighbours means I always take it pretty easy along the 6km's to the main road despite this section being part of a nice set of corners on what is a narrow cutting in places. This also ties in conveniently with the R1 having a dickie netral switch so the 6km's allows the bike to warm up before I think about feeding it the fat, as I can't idle it on the stand.

Given that there are similar sets of corners all over the 'rapa it's pure luck that I was caught out there and got off relatively lightly. Not that I go stupid but had I been somewhere else chances are I would have been travelling at a much less forgiving pace.

[howdamnhard]

Owww, glad you came out of it alive.Get some leathers.Did you get the trucks details,he needs to be dealt with or he will just do it again and the next person may not be so lucky.

[Swampdonkey]

Thanks for the report,glad your okay. Ive been wearing my jeans more and more out on the road,and have often wondered how effective they would be on an off. Might just wear them around town rides.

[piston broke]

I won't go into most of the usual bike damage from what was a fairly low speed crash (approx 40-50kph) but I thought it worthwhile to comment on the Draggin' Jeans I was wearing. While I realised they provide virtually no impact protection I was suprised at how poor they were at protecting from abrasions.
In contrast I wore/tore through the Draggin's kevlar on the knee with a fairly "meaty" abrasion resulting, along with abrasions around that from the actual kevlar itself. I also lost a bit of skin high and low on my hip which would have been worse had I not been wearing a substantial belt to hold 'em up over my skinny arse. The fault here is the kevlar lining only just reaches the edge of your hip and as you slide along the pants ride around just a tad and you end up wearing through the jeans/skin rather than the kevlar next to it. Of course your jacket rides up too, hence the skin loss further up.

So, just a word of caution when choosing your bike gear: Draggin's are not a get out of jail free card, even in a low speed accident.

They're better than standard jeans

well the last sentence says it all

[klingon]

Interesting. Very interesting.

My commute is about equal parts round-town and motorway riding. This summer I have been wearing draggins quite often... but now I've read this I'm glad the weather's cooling off a bit. Looks like it's back to the armoured cordura trou!

Glad to hear all your other gear stood up to the crash test and you're not too badly banged up. Look after yourself.

[skidMark]

Good for puttering around town, as you say better than jeans, but for open road anything less than one piece and i cant relax and enjoy the ride.

[James Deuce]

Interesting. Very interesting.

My commute is about equal parts round-town and motorway riding. This summer I have been wearing draggins quite often... but now I've read this I'm glad the weather's cooling off a bit. Looks like it's back to the armoured cordura trou!

Glad to hear all your other gear stood up to the crash test and you're not too badly banged up. Look after yourself.

Draggins are better than armoured Cordura. DAMHIK.

[martybabe]

Great attitude mate!

I expected that kinda result from the draggys, I guess leather is still king eh. I'm quite surprised though, in a century or more of motorcycling that we still haven't bettered dead animal skin as a form of protection.

Good read, glad your not to badly hurt.

[McDuck]

Draggins are better than armoured Cordura. DAMHIK.

You think? When i droped (read crashed) the 250 from 70ish (probably a little less) i lost very little skin with no real brusing (to my lower half). Pics around somwhere...

[pritch]

I remember reading where someone did tests in the UK and the Kevlar basically earned a fail. A bit better than ordinary denim, but that was about it.

It'd be better than whatever I wear to work too, but I can't wear jeans at work so...

[Hitcher]

I have been down the road twice in a pair of Draggins. Indeed in the same pair for that matter. They acquitted themselves famously and did everything I expected of them.

I wouldn't wear Draggins on a track day, nor uncovered in the rain or depths of winter. But for summer riding they are fantastic motorcycle garments. The cargoes were absolutely brilliant for coping with hot weather riding in the USA.

I highly recommend them. The ATGATT brigade can get fucked.

[Gremlin]

Came off at 90kph in Draggins... no scratches. I can't even tell which pair went sliding down the road.

However, it was soaking wet, pissing with rain, offering no traction (ie, why I binned), but the cordura jacket did show some abrasion, so in some situations, the draggins can definitely help.

You'd never bypass leather for best protection tho.

[skidMark]

Came off at 90kph in Draggins... no scratches. I can't even tell which pair went sliding down the road.

However, it was soaking wet, pissing with rain, offering no traction (ie, why I binned), but the cordura jacket did show some abrasion, so in some situations, the draggins can definitely help.

You'd never bypass leather for best protection tho.


Yeah definately leathers, but i think if commuting to work the draggins work for alot of people because you can just stay in them all day.

[jrandom]

I highly recommend them. The ATGATT brigade can get fucked.

Wot 'e said.

And I wear Draggins mostly because the kevlar-reinforced arse doesn't wear out on a motorcycle seat like normal jeans.

Anyone ever noticed how people who have run the gamut of bins tend to be a bit more relaxed about the gear they wear?

The ATGATT police seems to be 99% comprised of fearful n00bs who may have fallen off once or twice, but still don't quite know why.

[Kflasher]

...the truck had decided to take them both as one big curve...

You are lucky to walk away, skills on your part.
Sounds like the driver is familiar with this section of road, so the culprit may be a bit easier to trace or track down and formally complain about.
my 2 cents.

[slofox]

Still prefer the cow suit meself....always worked for me...

[jrandom]

Still prefer the cow suit meself...

I hope you never go out without a back protector underneath it.

:nono:

[CookMySock]

Draggins are better than armoured Cordura. DAMHIK.I came off in my amoured cordura, and didn't even mark them, or myself. I landed on the grass though, slid for maybe 20 meters.

I hope you found that truckie. I had the same thing done to me.. He did move over a wee bit, but took a full meter and a half of my side of the road.. the bastard just looked right at me and kept going. Asshole. I still had enough road, but not amused.

Steve

[slowpoke]

This wasn't meant as a bitch about truckies or "woe is me" but just as information for people making decisions about bike gear.

We've all seen the pic or video of the dude being towed on his arse behind another bike whilst wearing Draggin's. That's cool, on fairly cushioned parts of your body they probably work fine. But on area's with high point loadings (high force/sq. inch) like a knee or boney hip they simply don't hold up.

I don't care what anyone else wears, or what abbreviations/acronyms they use, I just thought it might be helpful for people to know how they stood up to a low speed spill. Do with the info what you will.

[Horse]

The ATGATT police seems to be 99% comprised of fearful n00bs who may have fallen off once or twice, but still don't quite know why.

Because nothing says "Kiwibiker" like a sweeping generalisation.... especially if you can sneak a generic putdown in for a twofer.

[Hitcher]

We've all seen the pic or video of the dude being towed on his arse behind another bike whilst wearing Draggin's. That's cool, on fairly cushioned parts of your body they probably work fine. But on area's with high point loadings (high force/sq. inch) like a knee or boney hip they simply don't hold up.

Based on exhaustive market research involving one person and one off, you may well be right. But armour too is overrated. It does not make the ground any less hard or the impact any less sudden. At best, armour may dissipate some impact forces, but it is unlike to stop bones being broken.

The more protection bikers wear, the greater the risk that they will place more importance on the durability/effectiveness of these garments than they do in their own riding ability. Exactly the same comments can be made about flouro vests and other nonsense. Riding naked without a helmet is probably the safest thing that any biker can do.

[Horse]

The more protection bikers wear, the greater the risk that they will place more importance on the durability/effectiveness of these garments than they do in their own riding ability.

I'm sorry, but isn't this "boring KB contrarian myth #1"? I mean, I see it raised lots of times as a matter worthy of urgent consideration (please, won't somebody think of the children?!), but do you have any evidence to suggest that this actually happens? Or is it just "based on exhaustive market research involving one person"?

[Hitcher]

I'm sorry, but isn't this "boring KB contrarian myth #1"? I mean, I see it raised lots of times as a matter worthy of urgent consideration (please, won't somebody think of the children?!), but do you have any evidence to suggest that this actually happens? Or is it just "based on exhaustive market research involving one person"?

It is an hypothesis that could easily be tested, as opposed to the alternative proposition on offer. Some years ago I read an article in a British motorcycle magazine that compared lap times recorded by motorcyclists wearing incrementally less protection. I am sorry that I cannot recall the name of that publication.

[Horse]

It is an hypothesis that could easily be tested

I'm sure it could be, it just seems to me that such experimental testing should actually be carried out before claiming such a thing to be so. I also suspect the motivations of racers on a track are not precisely correlated with the rest of us normal riders out on the road.

[Disco Dan]

I'd be curious to know how OLD your draggin jeans were at time of your bin. Also, have you ever left them hanging to dry in the sun???

Both of those factors would reduce the effectiveness of the Kevlar as well as the denim.

Had my fair share of bins in draggin jeans - held up very well. They still get my vote.

[vifferman]

Based on exhaustive market research involving one person and one off, you may well be right. But armour too is overrated. It does not make the ground any less hard or the impact any less sudden. At best, armour may dissipate some impact forces, but it is unlike to stop bones being broken.

The more protection bikers wear, the greater the risk that they will place more importance on the durability/effectiveness of these garments than they do in their own riding ability. Exactly the same comments can be made about flouro vests and other nonsense. Riding naked without a helmet is probably the safest thing that any biker can do.
Awwriiiiighty then.
I've conducted my own research into binning, using my own ungoodly self as a crash-test dummy.
I've crashed in a wide variety of garmenture, into a moderate variety of obstacles, and had a small variety of injuries. I won't talk about crashes on the dirt/grass/mud/sand, because they didn't really count, and I don't remember details. My sole surviving injury from the latter wasn't from a crash, but from a piece of partially-buried barbed wire trying to wrest me from my bike. A small scar on one ankle and a long since buried torn and blood-sodden sock were the results.
Crash 1:
Garments: Jeans, gloves, open-faced helmet, some kind of non-protective overgarment (oilskin raincoat or somesuch).
Obstacle: Mini - clipped with handlebar @ ~30 km/h.
Result: Fell down on road.
Injuries: None worth mentioning.

Crash 2:
Garments: School uniform (shorts, jersey, shoes, etc.) No gloves, open-faced helmet.
Obstacle: Direct hit on a bicyclist at ~ 55km/h.
Result: Several metre slide on road.
Injuries: Minor contusions on legs.

Crash 3:
Garments: Jeans, jandals, open-faced helmet, leather jacket.
Obstacle: Vauxhall Viva, hit square amidships at ~65km/h.
Result: 4.5 for a somersault over car, 7.6 on the dismount.
Injuries: Nine stitches in right knee, cuts'n'contusions on feet'n'ankles.

Crash 4:
Garments: Leather pants (no armour), Teknic jacket (fully armoured), Spidi gloves, leather bike boots, AGV fullface.
Obstacle: Road. Plus squashed can.
Result: Lowside at ~40 km/h.
Injuries: Bruised shoulder.

Crash 5:
Garments: Business slacks (and socks!), Teknic jacket (fully armoured), Spidi gloves, leather bike boots, AGV fullface.
Obstacle: Pedestrian
Result: Taken out ~40 km/h.
Injuries: Very slightly grazed knee(s). Pedestrian had leg busted in two (2!) places. Should've been wearing armour. ~$3k damage to bike.

Crash 6:
Garments: Business slacks (and socks!), Teknic jacket (fully armoured), Spidi gloves, leather bike boots, AGV fullface.
Obstacle: Car.
Result: Newly repaired and painted bike dropped onto road at ~25km/h.
Injuries: Slight whiplash from the sideways dismount. Bike unhappy.

Crash 7:
Garments: Leather pants with Knox knee armour, Teknic jacket (fully armoured), Spidi gloves, StylMartin leather bike boots, AGV fullface.
Obstacle: Car. U-turning without looking.
Result: Collision at ~50 - 60km/h
Injuries: Farkt leg - badly bruised / swollen, knee numb, possibly cracked heel, slightly sore back. Bike written off ($6800 damage).

Crash 8:
Garments: Leather pants with Knox knee armour, Teknic jacket (fully armoured), Spidi gloves, leather bike boots, AGV fullface.
Obstacle: Road.
Result: Sideways faceplant/unexpected dismount at ~10 km/h
Injuries: Slight concussion for 3 days. Minor bike damage. Huge hit to pride.

Crashes 9 and 10:
Garments: Cordura pants with Knox knee and hip armour, Teknic jacket (fully armoured), Spidi gloves, leather bike boots, AGV fullface.
Obstacle: Footpath / Road.
Result: Faceplant/ unplanned dismount at ~5 km/h (in both cases)
Injuries:Pride. Scratches, cracks to bike.


So what does all this bollocks tell you?

Fucknothing.
There's an awful lot of variability in the ways you can crash, what surface you're on, what you hit, how you land, what speed you're doing, whether you roll / slide / tumble. etc. I'd rather hit something hard with a reasonable amount of armoured gear on, than just street clothes. I'd rather be wearing good well-fitting leather in a slide, than anything else.
I'd rather be wearing a well-fittting, well padded, good brand of helmet than one that gives me concussion in a minor knock.
I'd rather not lose or damage any fingers, given I make my living from them.
I'd rather not lose mobility of any limbs if I can help it.
I still feel the effects of Crash 7 now, nearly 6 years afterwards. If I hadn't had a back protector in my jacket, Knox armour in my pants, and good boots on, it could've been much worserer. Fuck that...

[Hitcher]

I also suspect the motivations of racers on a track are not precisely correlated with the rest of us normal riders out on the road.

Indeed, but I suggest it as a means of removing a huge number of potentially randomising factors.

[Jantar]

.... But armour too is overrated. It does not make the ground any less hard or the impact any less sudden. At best, armour may dissipate some impact forces, but it is unlike to stop bones being broken......

After my incident in Australia, the Doctor at Mt Isa hospital who interpreted the scans commented that the muscles had torn exactly where the armour in my jacket was. His comment was that he has seen this before where the armour saves the bones from being broken but grabs and rips the muscle. Bones are much easier to repair than torn tendon.

I have now removed all hard armour from all my gear, and only use soft armour in my kevlar jeans, and sacrificial padding in my leathers.

[vifferman]

After my incident in Australia, the Doctor at Mt Isa hospital who interpreted the scans commented that the muscles had torn exactly where the armour in my jacket was.
What sort or armour was it? My gear has different sorts of armour: the Teknic jacket (now 8-9 years old) has plastic armour with soft padding inside, and also padded kevlar armour on the outside of the shoulders, forearms and elbones.
My Macna jacket has completely different armour - sort of rubbery stuff. My Spidi pants have articulated (biomechanical) plastic armour in the knees, and a dense foam sort of armour in the hips. My gloves and boots have a few padded bits, but mostly carbon fibre panels for protection.

[Bend-it]

We've all seen the pic or video of the dude being towed on his arse behind another bike whilst wearing Draggin's. That's cool, on fairly cushioned parts of your body they probably work fine. But on area's with high point loadings (high force/sq. inch) like a knee or boney hip they simply don't hold up.


So what you're saying is... Draggins are good for fat people, but not for skinny people?? ;)




Crash 1:
...


Crash 2:
....

Crash 3:
...
.
..
....
..
..

Crashes 9 and 10:

So what does all this bollocks tell you?



That maybe you should think about taking a taxi, mate! :dodge:

[Jantar]

What sort or armour was it? .....

Damn that question. You just made me go and hunt through the cupboard where I keep my spare gear and search for something I never intend to use again. :pinch:

The shoulder armour that did the damage is a hard plastic semi articulated shell with a thin lining of high impact foam and a fabric layer.

[zeocen]

Based on exhaustive market research involving one person and one off, you may well be right. But armour too is overrated. It does not make the ground any less hard or the impact any less sudden. At best, armour may dissipate some impact forces, but it is unlike to stop bones being broken.

My hard padded armour with soft padding on the outside wasn't enough to keep my colarbone in tact. I think if you fall the wrong way you're going to end up having a bad time no matter what you're wearing.

I still wear my Quasi kevlar jeans, will probably pick up some draggins to compliment them when I have the moolah.

[vifferman]

That maybe you should think about taking a taxi, mate! :dodge:
Those crashes occurred over a 35-year period. The first three were when I was 15-17, the next four were on my cursed black bike, and unless you count lowsiding on an invisible squashed can my fault, were all technically and legally other people's fault. The last few were when my brain was addled by prescription drugs, and you're probably right - I should have taken a taxi.

[slowpoke]

Fukkin' hell people are so defensive! Challenge conventional thinking in even the slightest way and a parliamentary anecdotal inquiry is launched.

Personally I don't care what you choose to wear, I just thought it might be helpful for people to hear that you shouldn't pull 'em on like a shroud of indestructibility with a "get outta hospital free" card in the pocket.

Fact: at just 40-50kmh the kevlar was worn/torn through.

Fact: the kevlar in the hip region does not adequately cover your hip, a common impact point

As for the comments regarding armouring being more of a hindrance than a help: I reckon the WSBK/MotoGP boys and Dr Costa know a thing or two about crashing and I reckon they'd laugh at anybody's recommendation to throw the stuff in the bin.

[klingon]

I think the real problem was with the design of the rider. Really it wouldn't have been a problem if you had more padding on your bones to cushion the impact, and more curves to hold your pants up.

As a bonus you would also be better at belly-dancing :banana: and look much more fetching in a skirt. :niceone:

[shafty]

. At best, armour may dissipate some impact forces, but it is unlike to stop bones being broken.

.

Is that a typo Hitcher??????????????????????????????

[Gizzit]

I think you are right Slowpoke ... people do get a bit precious defending their choice in riding gear.
You provided good feedback ..... on what you experienced ..... in Draggin jeans.

There are others here who have got away quite well, wearing Draggins, but every crash is different.
And Vifferman had a variety of results, in a variety of gear, and/or basically ordinary street clothing. What I think it means, is it really depends on the circumstances.

I think sliding down a wet smooth road in Draggins, with reduced friction, may give a different result to a dry road surface, and especially if its a rougher sealed surface ... The speed makes a difference I'm sure, because even if the kevlar doesn't wear through .... it is probably going to burn you from the heat generated by friction.

I've had a couple of "offs" recently, once in armoured cordura gear, once in armoured leather gear. What made the difference to my injuries .... I think now, ..... was the circumstances, .... more so than what I was wearing.

I believe that you make your choice of gear based on your knowledge/experience and preferences, where you are riding, and the speed you will be traveling at, i.e. your particular environment, and make a decision on your level of risk, verses your comfort or need during your ride/at your destination.

My choice now is (usually going to be) kevlar reinforced jeans, leather jacket, boots, helmet and gloves for around town. Change the kevlar jeans for leather trou if I'm going out on the open road.

IMHO, ... I think leather will provide more protection than anything else currently available ..... for protecting your skin. Other factors in a crash will dictate what other injuries you suffer, and some form(s) of armour may mitigate those injuries to some extent.


At the end of the day .... riding a bike .... is a risk! I enjoy that risk!!!
What comes with that ... is that one day, you might bin and get hurt / die. It's like lots of decisions in life .... a risk !! That risk probably provides the thrill which we all share, and maybe why we ride !!

[James Deuce]

It's not defensive behaviour in the way you're interpreting it.

There's more stories of people saying Kevlar lined jeans are crap than there is about cordura and leather being crap combined.

Which surprises me.

I've been hurt much worse wearing full leathers than I ever have in a leather jacket and jeans.

Cordura falls to bits in even the most minor accident. My armoured, leather-at-the-impact-points Cordura trousers went right to the skin at hip and knee in a 60 km/hr accident. It's rubbish! Ban it! Never wear it, it's fallible!

They're my experiences.

So leather sucks and Cordura sucks balls. I wouldn't personally recommend leather as protective gear, and I'd call Cordura a raincoat and leggings not protective gear.

I think the argument posited and content of the argument isn't particularly well thought out. No one will back up my argument for banning leather (rightly so, but....), however everyone makes cautionary statements about wearing kevlar lined jeans, even people who wear them daily (with one or two notable exceptions).

[popelli]

In contrast I wore/tore through the Draggin's kevlar on the knee with a fairly "meaty" abrasion resulting, along with abrasions around that from the actual kevlar itself. I also lost a bit of skin high and low on my hip which would have been worse had I not been wearing a substantial belt to hold 'em up over my skinny arse. The fault here is the kevlar lining only just reaches the edge of your hip and as you slide along the pants ride around just a tad and you end up wearing through the jeans/skin rather than the kevlar next to it.



Sorry to hear about your off

I always wondered how the dragging jeans woyuld stand up to real life accidents when the rider was exposed to abrasion that was not protected by the kevlar "patches" your post confirms what I always suspected

For this very reason I chosse not to buy the dragging jeans and bought hood jeans, they are 100% lined

As yet thay have not had the acid test

[Jantar]

Fact: at just 40-50kmh the kevlar was worn/torn through.

Fact: the kevlar in the hip region does not adequately cover your hip, a common impact point

As for the comments regarding armouring being more of a hindrance than a help: I reckon the WSBK/MotoGP boys and Dr Costa know a thing or two about crashing and I reckon they'd laugh at anybody's recommendation to throw the stuff in the bin.

Yep, nothing new here. Kevlar is better than standard jeans but not as good as cordura which is not as good as leather etc. The whole point is that a rider should wear protective gear, but no-one is going to say that you may only ever wear the ultimate GP quality armoured leather. What level of protection a rider chooses for a particular ride is entirely up to that rider.

As for the armour, if I was racing at GP speeds then I would want armour, but at low speeds over soft ground then I certainly don't want it. I have ditched all hard armour from my gear, but I have retained the high impact soft armour, and I would never recommend to anyone "to throw the stuff in the bin." I would just say "Use it where appropriate rather than all the time."

[Gizzit]

........ SNIP ..........

I've been hurt much worse wearing full leathers than I ever have in a leather jacket and jeans.

No argument with you there James. I still think what makes the differences to our experience with whatever gear ..... is the circumstances we crash in/the environment.



They're my experiences.

And just as valid as Slowpoke's or anyone else's ..... it's what you know from your experience!



So leather sucks and Cordura sucks balls. I wouldn't personally recommend leather as protective gear, and I'd call Cordura a raincoat and leggings not protective gear.

That makes it a bit tricky mate !! ..... what DO you recommend then ?? :) (and I'm not trying to be a smart arse or anything ... )



I think the argument posited and content of the argument isn't particularly well thought out. No one will back up my argument for banning leather (rightly so, but....), however everyone makes cautionary statements about wearing kevlar lined jeans, even people who wear them daily (with one or two notable exceptions).

Unlike you, I did think the arguments that people put forwards were pretty well reasoned, and based on experiences ...... and we all can have very different experiences with the same or similar gear. Once again, I reckon that it comes down to the individual circumstances in the crashes.

Nothing is full proof ... IMO. I have and use all the different varieties of gear (denim/kevlar, cordura, leather).. in different situations. I don't believe I can rely on it. I do still believe - rightly or wrongly - that leather protects your skin best in a sliding situation ..... but I haven't binned in denim/kevlar yet. However, guys that race on circuits .... where sliding is more regular in an off .... rely on leather exclusively .... as far as I know.
Those of us .... that only ride on the street, have a much more dangerous environment to contend with, and we just have to make the best decisions we can! :) As long as people try and protect themselves somehow ... I reckon! Beats the hell out of jandals, shorts and a t shirt. I can only think when I see anyone riding in that kind of gear ....... " you have never binned" !! :doh:

[vifferman]

I was going to delete my post, as it pissed me off people thinking I was a shit rider and had had a lot of crashes, and maybe missing the point. In fact, I have had no bins (NONE! Not even 'incidents'!) on the open road, and apart from some nooobie incidents when I was a teenager ALL the other spills have been while communtering in D'Auckland, a most dangerous place to ride. I've no broken bones that I know of (although I suspect my left heel was cracked).
Of the bins I've had where I wasn't wearing much safety gear, only one resulted in a visit to hospital to get patched up, and had I been wearing leather pants and decent footwear, that would've been unnecessary.
My most serious crash would've undoubtedly been more injurious without decent boots, gloves, leathers with knee armour (soft, but substantial), and a back protector in my jacket.

There is anecdotal evidence that thinking you are safe encourages you to take more risks. Perhaps the availability of good armoured motorcycle gear encourages a degree of complacency?? When I started riding, it was common to not wear gloves except for the cold, fullface helmets were rare, full leathers were generally worn by only racers and gang members, and armour was non-existent. Sounds like many scooterists and some cruiser riders today....

However, as others have reiterated, circumstances often seem to have more bearing on injuries than what gear you were wearing. The only control you have over circumstances is your attitude, and what actions come of it: keep your speed sensible (and appropriate); be aggressively defensive and alert; wear what gear you can that is appropriate for the level of risk.

[junkmanjoe]

Hi Slowpoke.

its our roads around here, the seal is so evil, its like rubbing 40grit sand paper on ya ass...
my mate had a off little while ago, and he wears more armor than a bank volt,
he tore holes in everything and cracked a rib,,
the other chap we ride with wears them saftey jeans,

[Chrislost]

It's not defensive behaviour in the way you're interpreting it.

There's more stories of people saying Kevlar lined jeans are crap than there is about cordura and leather being crap combined.

Which surprises me.

I've been hurt much worse wearing full leathers than I ever have in a leather jacket and jeans.

Cordura falls to bits in even the most minor accident. My armoured, leather-at-the-impact-points Cordura trousers went right to the skin at hip and knee in a 60 km/hr accident. It's rubbish! Ban it! Never wear it, it's fallible!

They're my experiences.

So leather sucks and Cordura sucks balls. I wouldn't personally recommend leather as protective gear, and I'd call Cordura a raincoat and leggings not protective gear.

I think the argument posited and content of the argument isn't particularly well thought out. No one will back up my argument for banning leather (rightly so, but....), however everyone makes cautionary statements about wearing kevlar lined jeans, even people who wear them daily (with one or two notable exceptions).

My Cordura wore/melted through when i fell off the luge in silverdale.

my draggins stopped me loosing skin when i tumbled across the road at 80km/h.
I had complimented my draggins with some $30 fox motorcross knee/shin armour.
This had a few scratches in and im dam sure that having the armour made me a lot more comfortable in the hours after the crash than i would have been in straight draggins

[rabbai67]

Thanks for your comments. I have always suspected that Kevlar jeans were of minimal use in the event of an accident and you have convinced me. As a city dweller it is a real hassle wearing my textile gear when out and about and I often forgo it for the ease of normal clothes. I guess it is each individuals choice whether they want to take the risk or not but don't kid your self that reinforced jeans are protecting you any better than standard ones.

[puddytat]

Well, Ive used it all & come to the conclusion that you cant beat a good set of leathers....reason being that leather & its associated armour tends to stay where it should. Whereas with cordura & Draggins there is often minimal or no armour sewn in, & if there is, seeing as they are usually a loose-ish fit it has in my experience rolled around with the material & offered little protection against friction & impact....
Each to there own though.

[Gizzit]

Thanks for your comments. I have always suspected that Kevlar jeans were of minimal use in the event of an accident and you have convinced me. As a city dweller it is a real hassle wearing my textile gear when out and about and I often forgo it for the ease of normal clothes. I guess it is each individuals choice whether they want to take the risk or not ..... (but don't kid your self that reinforced jeans are protecting you any better than standard ones).

I have to disagree with you there mate. Kevlar reinforced jeans, will protect you more from abrasions, than standard denim jeans.

[Genie]

I'd been thinking about aquiring some of these but not now, will stick with my leathers. I'm not into losing skin!

[carver]

I wonder how NZ's top spec'd Qmoto gear would have stood up?
better than a "low spec" teknic model?

[Edbear]

Great attitude mate!

I expected that kinda result from the draggys, I guess leather is still king eh. I'm quite surprised though, in a century or more of motorcycling that we still haven't bettered dead animal skin as a form of protection.

Good read, glad your not to badly hurt.

Wot he said! :yes:


This wasn't meant as a bitch about truckies or "woe is me" but just as information for people making decisions about bike gear.

We've all seen the pic or video of the dude being towed on his arse behind another bike whilst wearing Draggin's. That's cool, on fairly cushioned parts of your body they probably work fine. But on area's with high point loadings (high force/sq. inch) like a knee or boney hip they simply don't hold up.

I don't care what anyone else wears, or what abbreviations/acronyms they use, I just thought it might be helpful for people to know how they stood up to a low speed spill. Do with the info what you will.

Good post in the OP, and thanks for posting the experience.


Because nothing says "Kiwibiker" like a sweeping generalisation.... especially if you can sneak a generic putdown in for a twofer.

KB's great for stroking the ego, it's an equal opportunity site...


After my incident in Australia, the Doctor at Mt Isa hospital who interpreted the scans commented that the muscles had torn exactly where the armour in my jacket was. His comment was that he has seen this before where the armour saves the bones from being broken but grabs and rips the muscle. Bones are much easier to repair than torn tendon.

I have now removed all hard armour from all my gear, and only use soft armour in my kevlar jeans, and sacrificial padding in my leathers.

Interesting, as I haven't bothered to get hard armour, now I have a reason not to...



That maybe you should think about taking a taxi, mate! :dodge:

LOL!!! I sorta thought the same thing the way it came across. :shutup:


I think the real problem was with the design of the rider. Really it wouldn't have been a problem if you had more padding on your bones to cushion the impact, and more curves to hold your pants up.

As a bonus you would also be better at belly-dancing :banana: and look much more fetching in a skirt. :niceone:

I doubt it, as I know from falling down stairs that I just don't bounce these days and it really hurts! As for the sight of me in a skirt... Well... :shit:

[Gizzit]

I wonder how NZ's top spec'd Qmoto gear would have stood up?
better than a "low spec" teknic model?

That's a very provocative question to pose Mr Carver. What are you possibly implying ??? :gob: :shutup:

[carver]

That's a very provocative question to pose Mr Carver. What are you possibly implying ??? :gob: :shutup:

me, oh, just wondering where quasi is on a thread like this, he should be here to plug his gear, best in nz ya know!

[Pussy]

Draggin jeans have marginally more abrasion resistance than lycra.
They're shit

[Crasherfromwayback]

After my incident in Australia, the Doctor at Mt Isa hospital who interpreted the scans commented that the muscles had torn exactly where the armour in my jacket was. His comment was that he has seen this before where the armour saves the bones from being broken but grabs and rips the muscle. Bones are much easier to repair than torn tendon.

I have now removed all hard armour from all my gear, and only use soft armour in my kevlar jeans, and sacrificial padding in my leathers.

Armour is a shit idea. That's why decent road racing leathers only ever use high impact foam. But I've crashed in all sorts of gear...and Levis are actually better than people think too! Not that I recommend biffing it in a set. To this day though...I'll still only ever wear a leather jacket...not cordura.

[Okey Dokey]

Gotta say that the OP was helpful and informative. One person's honest testimonial.

[Gizzit]

me, oh, just wondering where quasi is on a thread like this, he should be here to plug his gear, best in nz ya know!

Is it ..... ? :shit: Wow !!

[carver]

Is it ..... ? :shit: Wow !!

well, so i hear!
2mm cowhide with CE armour!

[Gizzit]

well, so i hear!
2mm cowhide with CE armour!

and ...... stitching ...... ???? with top quality stitching included .... ????? MMMMMmmmm must be good ....... YesireeBob !! :killingme

[BikerDazz]

Draggin jeans have marginally more abrasion resistance than lycra.
They're shit




Armour is a shit idea. That's why decent road racing leathers only ever use high impact foam. But I've crashed in all sorts of gear...and Levis are actually better than people think too! Not that I recommend biffing it in a set. To this day though...I'll still only ever wear a leather jacket...not cordura.

I mosty wear Levi's and have been looking at getting me some Draggins, but now ... maybe not. Sounds like leathers the way to go. Must give Quasi a call - finally me and Carver agree on something! Although he does suffer an unfortunate foot in mouth problem!

[sinned]

Well fitting leather is hard to beat and high impact foam is much more comfortable than hard armour.

[Quasievil]

well, so i hear!
2mm cowhide with CE armour!

Qrace jacket and Pants Spec is 1.4mm thick, with KNOX armour, Triple Kevlar stitching with one Bonded Nylon on the external

Qrace One piece Spec is the above and quadriple stitching, three kevlar and one bonded nylon

Bonded nylon is for the color match for the leather.

Yes the best spec in NZ for off the shelf gear, can you prove me wrong?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Well fitting leather is hard to beat and high impact foam is much more comfortable than hard armour.

It's not hard to beat...it's impossible to beat.

[carver]

and ...... stitching ...... ???? with top quality stitching included .... ????? MMMMMmmmm must be good ....... YesireeBob !! :killingme

hmmmmm, uh, um, well..... :no:


Qrace jacket and Pants Spec is 1.4mm thick, with KNOX armour, Triple Kevlar stitching with one Bonded Nylon on the external

Qrace One piece Spec is the above and quadriple stitching, three kevlar and one bonded nylon

Bonded nylon is for the color match for the leather.

Yes the best spec in NZ for off the shelf gear, can you prove me wrong?

does that mean your gear is the best?

will it outlast my current gear?

I see alpinestar have bionic neck support!

wow!

[Quasievil]

does that mean your gear is the best?
will it outlast my current gear?
I see alpinestar have bionic neck support!
wow!

Astars have a Bionic neck support Brace as a individual accessory, I dont think its part of a jacket.

And yes Qmoto is the best spec in NZ that Im aware of, if you find something with a better spec I would like to know, and once I know I will add the better bits to Qmoto.

[Quasievil]

best in nz ya know!

Forgot to say thanks for the plug

[Owl]

and ...... stitching ...... ???? with top quality stitching included .... ????? MMMMMmmmm must be good ....... YesireeBob !! :killingme

I thought you were anti-anyone putting down other peoples gear? Pot/kettle Gizzit!

As for stitching, perhaps there's something to it. Sam at Celtic Leathers certainly thinks so, or is he full of shit too?

[Quasievil]

I thought you were anti-anyone putting down other peoples gear? Pot/kettle Gizzit!

As for stitching, perhaps there's something to it. Sam at Celtic Leathers certainly thinks so, or is he full of shit too?

Sam At Celtic has a awesome stitching method, and is certainly not full of shit, great guy and I have alot of time for him, we are starting to supply KNOX for his suits !!

Leather is not hard, I always say to customer, leather grade and thickness, stitching and armour system get those things right and you have a great set of leathers, buy on spec not price

Of course there are other things that are important, Skin Safe chemicals is a big one, Leather tanneries use some nasty shit and I have seen a few riders in NZ with some nasty rashes, if you keep away from cheap TM junk you will be sweet on that one, then of course fit and styles are important naturally.

Gizzit and Carver are just having a go at me anyway Owl

[Owl]

Gizzit and Carver are just having a go at me anyway Owl

I'd expect nothing less from Carver!:laugh: In fact I enjoy the banter between ya.:yes:

[Quasievil]

I'd expect nothing less from Carver!:laugh: In fact I enjoy the banter between ya.:yes:

LOL, be over soon, do they have Internet in Jail ?

[carver]

Astars have a Bionic neck support Brace as a individual accessory, I dont think its part of a jacket.

And yes Qmoto is the best spec in NZ that Im aware of, if you find something with a better spec I would like to know, and once I know I will add the better bits to Qmoto.

How about 1tonne?


Forgot to say thanks for the plug

thanks, return it some time
just like the red


Sam At Celtic has a awesome stitching method, and is certainly not full of shit, great guy and I have alot of time for him, we are starting to supply KNOX for his suits !!

Leather is not hard, I always say to customer, leather grade and thickness, stitching and armour system get those things right and you have a great set of leathers, buy on spec not price

Of course there are other things that are important, Skin Safe chemicals is a big one, Leather tanneries use some nasty shit and I have seen a few riders in NZ with some nasty rashes, if you keep away from cheap TM junk you will be sweet on that one, then of course fit and styles are important naturally.

Gizzit and Carver are just having a go at me anyway Owl

nah, no way, just testing your new resolve


I'd expect nothing less from Carver!:laugh: In fact I enjoy the banter between ya.:yes:

Consistancy!


LOL, be over soon, do they have Internet in Jail ?

yeah, and underfloor heating, and lotsa sex, i cant wait!

[spacemonkey]

You think? When i droped (read crashed) the 250 from 70ish (probably a little less) i lost very little skin with no real brusing (to my lower half). Pics around somwhere...

Same(ish) I dropped my bike doing 70-80 around a roundabout Cordura pants are totally unmarked, cheap cordura jacket had 2 small holes on one arm.
Not a mark on me though. :D

[R-Soul]

Crash 8:
Garments: Leather pants with Knox knee armour, Teknic jacket (fully armoured), Spidi gloves, leather bike boots, AGV fullface.
Obstacle: Road.
Result: Sideways faceplant/unexpected dismount at ~10 km/h
Injuries: Slight concussion for 3 days. Minor bike damage. Huge hit to pride.

So what does all this bollocks tell you?




That you should stop hitting things?

Seriously, how did you fall at 10km/hr AND get concussion from it?

EDIT: OK saw refernce to prescription drugs afterwards...

[R-Soul]

Thanks for your comments. I have always suspected that Kevlar jeans were of minimal use in the event of an accident and you have convinced me. As a city dweller it is a real hassle wearing my textile gear when out and about and I often forgo it for the ease of normal clothes. I guess it is each individuals choice whether they want to take the risk or not but don't kid your self that reinforced jeans are protecting you any better than standard ones.

I think the conclusion was different to that: It was that they DO help, but that it does depend on the crcumstances, and the ones with patches at specific areas are going to be less uselful than the type that are fully lined. I had always wondered at the sense of having lining at particular areas only, since the normal jeans part could wear away and result in the kevlar patches being moved aside in the slide.

Also, clearly kevlar lining is for abrasion resistance only- that is what kevlar was designed for. It is still just a floppy flexible material and will obviously not give you any resistance to impacts from a tree or curb.

Each accident will present a different angle of impact and place of sliding, and the only way to get the best protection will be to cover those areas that get the most impact (statistically) with harder armour, and everything with abrasion resistance.

The test that is done for safety ratings involves holding a patch of material against a particlar grade of sandpaper and seeing how long it takes to wear through. NOTE: this is NOT sliding at speed along tarmac.

From what I remember, it was like this:
Leather 6-8 seconds.
Kevlar jeans at about three seconds.
Jeans at about 1.5 seconds.
Dunno about cordura

Leather wins.

Also check this for some good advice:
http://obairlann.net/reaper/motorcycle/beginner/sander-test.html

[R-Soul]

I liked this quote:

"The Sander Test
When you've selected a set of gear, perform the following thought experiment:

Mentally, climb into all the gear you've selected. Gloves, jacket, boots, helmet, etc. Everything you will or do wear while riding your motorcycle. Now, imagine that I'm walking up to you, with my imaginary belt sander. It runs at around 30 MPH, which is a reasonable crash speed. It's loaded with 80 grit sandpaper, which is sharper than asphalt, but not as coarse. I switch on my sander, and apply it anywhere the fancy strikes me: your face, knees, ankles, butt, hands, belly, etc. Where do you recoil in pain? Where are you feeling red-hot sandpaper stripping away skin? That is where you need to improve your gear.

The purpose of this thought experiment is to demonstrate, in an easily imagined way, what happens when you're sliding along the pavement. If your gear isn't up to snuff, you will feel a great deal of pain in the places where it doesn't cover sufficiently. Think about your face, pavement grinding by 2 inches away: do you want a full-face helmet now? Think about how much actual control you'd have in a slide: will those leather chaps really help? How will you keep your butt off the pavement? If you have fingerless gloves, how will you move your hand when it's trapped under your chest as you slide? If you have any exposed skin, there's an excellent chance that you'll lose it in a crash. And remember, as we established earlier, a crash can happen at any time, and without your control. The gear you wear every time you ride will determine what happens in a crash. "

[jasonzc]

[QUOTE=
That maybe you should think about taking a taxi, mate! :dodge:[/QUOTE]

hahha hate to know what his insurance might cost :P

[specter]

I dont know about you guys, but i dont believe in all this leather, cordura, jeans hogwash.......
i only wear the best whilst riding....
http://www.allenvanguard.com/Portals/0/ProductImages/PPE/EOD-IEDD/EOD%209/1.EOD_EOD9_main.jpg
honestly guys, in any off the circumstances are different every single time!!
i try to wear the best equipment i can afford at the time, but i still dont expect to be bulletproof. but rather minimizing damage to most areas if not preventing injuries ie. roadrash


just my 2cents :scooter:[R RATED][/R RATED]

[Crazy Steve]

Are you sure the Jeans you have are real Draggins ? ?

Because ive crashed at 20-50Kph in Draggins with no damage.
And at 100-120kph with no damage.
And at 200kph plus with no damage.

And the Jeans still look new ! ! ! !

Crazy Steve..

[p.dath]

Are you sure the Jeans you have are real Draggins ? ?

Because ive crashed at 20-50Kph in Draggins with no damage.
And at 100-120kph with no damage.
And at 200kph plus with no damage.

And the Jeans still look new ! ! ! !

Crazy Steve..

That's hard to believe Crazy Steve. They are denim jeans with an inner kevlar liner. If you went for a skate at 200km/h on a road I would expect the denim to be ripped to shreds.

[Quasievil]

Are you sure the Jeans you have are real Draggins ? ?

Because ive crashed at 20-50Kph in Draggins with no damage.
And at 100-120kph with no damage.
And at 200kph plus with no damage.

And the Jeans still look new ! ! ! !

Crazy Steve..

Yeah yeah whatever

[Crazy Steve]

Yeah yeah whatever

Do you want photos ??

Crazy Steve.

[Ronin]

Do you want photos ??

Crazy Steve.

You're obviously not counting the brain damage.

[Crazy Steve]

That's hard to believe Crazy Steve. They are denim jeans with an inner kevlar liner. If you went for a skate at 200km/h on a road I would expect the denim to be ripped to shreds.

Well your WRONG AGAIN P.DATH.

The fact is the Police measured the skid marks and estimated my speed at over 200Kph..And the Draggin wern't as you suggest ripped to threads ! !

One day come over and I will show you photos and some private fliming I have with me doin some stunts..

Bring Beer.

Crazy Steve.

[p.dath]

Well your WRONG AGAIN P.DATH.

The fact is the Police measured the skid marks and estimated my speed at over 200Kph..And the Draggin wern't as you suggest ripped to threads ! !

One day come over and I will show you photos and some private fliming I have with me doin some stunts..

Bring Beer.

Crazy Steve.

What is the construction of the jeans?

[carver]

Well your WRONG AGAIN P.DATH.

The fact is the Police measured the skid marks and estimated my speed at over 200Kph..And the Draggin wern't as you suggest ripped to threads ! !

One day come over and I will show you photos and some private fliming I have with me doin some stunts..

Bring Beer.

Crazy Steve.

whatever homo....

you just want to do bad things to him....

dont fall for homo steve P.Darth

[grantnz]

Jeans will save you every time

[schrodingers cat]

The more protection bikers wear, the greater the risk that they will place more importance on the durability/effectiveness of these garments than they do in their own riding ability. Exactly the same comments can be made about flouro vests and other nonsense. Riding naked without a helmet is probably the safest thing that any biker can do.

During the 1914 - 1918 Great War the Royal Flying Corps used the same logic. If they equipped their flying officers with parachutes the cads wouldn't fight to the death and more valuable flying craft would be lost...

There is also the theory that a great big shrp spike mounted in the center of every steering wheel would reduce the road toll

It's WHEN not IF...

[offrd]

I wear draggins, I dont think leather would like water, mud and crap soaked in it all the time, Be bloody heavy too! Armoured codura jacket.

My last oops, wore the zip off the leg of my codura pants, wore a boot clip off my gearne boot and some burn/small hole in the arm of my ixon jacket.
I dug feet into the gravel as i slid off the road so as not to go thru farm fence! Oh smoked the arm and arse right out of my rain gear!

No bruises or broken bones, grand damage to the bike, roadside repairs to get it ridable to get home.

Accidents happen, don't ride faster than your guardian angel can fly!

[R-Soul]

Are you sure the Jeans you have are real Draggins ? ?

Because ive crashed at 20-50Kph in Draggins with no damage.
And at 100-120kph with no damage.
And at 200kph plus with no damage.

And the Jeans still look new ! ! ! !

Crazy Steve..

At 200 kph was it raining? Or were you riding on an ice rink?

[Crazy Steve]

It was raining super hard and I was in a hurry to get to work......

Crazy Steve..

[schrodingers cat]

Just got my first pair of kevlar lined jeans. I'm working on the theory that anything is better to commute in than standard jeans but there is no way I'd do anything other than pootle around in them. Cordura for the rainy days and leather for the days I want to wear the sides out of my tyres.

Lets put it this way - which would last longer under attack from a grinder?

[R-Soul]

It was raining super hard and I was in a hurry to get to work......

Crazy Steve..

So you did 200km/hr in the rain. Did you get to work in time? :innocent:

The rain reduces friction and may have saved your jeans. Unless it was another very slippery substance that may have been accidentally laid on the road when you came off at 200 km/hr... :shifty:

[Ronin]

It was raining super hard and I was in a hurry to get to work......

Crazy Steve..

And the cops measured the skid marks... In the super heavy rain... Back on your meds Steve(what is it with steves?)

[SPman]

Mr White Trash had a slight oops on the Hutt road, some years back, wearing standard jeans....something about wheelies going bad in cross winds at "severely in excess of 100kph....by a factor of 60-70%"! He was wearing the same jeans, 2 months later when telling me about it.....a couple of small abrasion holes, but still well intact.....it all boils down to luck of the draw!

[grantnz]

.....it all boils down to luck of the draw![/QUOTE]

Came off at the sweeper at Manfeild in 1984 practise for the Castrol 6 Hour in full Leda Leathers on the grass. Result was 7 stiches in left elbow. No holes in the arm, guess the bone just went through the skin and into the extra padding on the sleeve, but leathers were in no need of repair. Tis luck of the draw...

[BikerDazz]

whatever homo....

you just want to do bad things to him....

dont fall for homo steve P.Darth

What's with the anti-gay derogatory remaks?
Oh yeah, all you bible bashers are homophobes.

[bittertwistedcute]

Soft cocks, short men and godbotherers : )

What's with the anti-gay derogatory remaks?
Oh yeah, all you bible bashers are homophobes.

[spacemonkey]

Soft cocks, short men and godbotherers : )

Shit someone used the "G" word.... Off to PD we go. :(

[Rogue Rider]

A couple of weeks ago I had a short sharp disagreement with a fellow road user regarding the ownership of a certain section of road. Seeing as how I was on the bike and the other party was in a truck I rapidly came to the conclusion that discretion was the better part of valour and ran off the road with my tail between my legs.

Long story short: on a blind series of two r/h corners (classic statistic:1km from home) the truck had decided to take them both as one big curve and I came 'round the first corner to find the truck using most of my side of the road. As the road is only 5m wide at this point that didn't leave a lot of room for muggins here. A flick left and back right again had me thinking "Phew!".....right until the road came up to meet me. A patch of the road shoulder eaten away consumed the last inch I needed and the cash register started clocking up the dollar signs as the bike slid down a small bank like a seal into the sea while I skidded to halt on the road with a lil' forward roll thrown in at the end to impress the judges. Three days before I was supposed to chase, oops I mean race, at Paeroa my timing was impeccable......

I won't go into most of the usual bike damage from what was a fairly low speed crash (approx 40-50kph) but I thought it worthwhile to comment on the Draggin' Jeans I was wearing. While I realised they provide virtually no impact protection I was suprised at how poor they were at protecting from abrasions. I came down on my right knee, hip and shoulder. My shoulder still isn't right but the CE armour in my Dianese textile jacket has kept things in one piece (I think...) and I hate to think how many pieces it would be in without the armour.

In contrast I wore/tore through the Draggin's kevlar on the knee with a fairly "meaty" abrasion resulting, along with abrasions around that from the actual kevlar itself. I also lost a bit of skin high and low on my hip which would have been worse had I not been wearing a substantial belt to hold 'em up over my skinny arse. The fault here is the kevlar lining only just reaches the edge of your hip and as you slide along the pants ride around just a tad and you end up wearing through the jeans/skin rather than the kevlar next to it. Of course your jacket rides up too, hence the skin loss further up.

So, just a word of caution when choosing your bike gear: Draggin's are not a get out of jail free card, even in a low speed accident.

They're better than standard jeans and I'd consider them for commuting in the city, but that's about it. As I live rurally and mostly ride country roads at open road speeds I'll be looking at other alternatives and won't bother replacing them.

By contrast I didn't even know I'd banged my head until I saw my Shoei XR1000 was scratched up (visor too, would have been my cheek had I been wearing an open face helmet), thanks Mr Shoei.

Same to you Mr Teknic. My gloves had lost the leather off the palm heel but the kangaroo skin proved it's superior abrasion resistance by appearing scuffed but completely intact.

My Alpine Star SM-X boot ankle armouring was also nicely ground away which would have meant a trip to reconstructive surgery had I been wearing something less substantial.

Not wanting to shit in my own nest with my country neighbours means I always take it pretty easy along the 6km's to the main road despite this section being part of a nice set of corners on what is a narrow cutting in places. This also ties in conveniently with the R1 having a dickie netral switch so the 6km's allows the bike to warm up before I think about feeding it the fat, as I can't idle it on the stand.

Given that there are similar sets of corners all over the 'rapa it's pure luck that I was caught out there and got off relatively lightly. Not that I go stupid but had I been somewhere else chances are I would have been travelling at a much less forgiving pace.

I hate to say it, but I think Draggin Jeans are a flippin rip off. Same story here, mine ripped easy and came of worse than if I had normal jeans. I still have one more set of draggins but I will never buy em again. For the price, leather is way better and you can get some Armour padding as well.
Sorry about the accident, I have had a few cagers do the same thing, and then toot at me as though it's my fault they cut corners...... %$#^&$#&#&%^#&%&^%##%$# makes me mad, these idiots are the statistics that put our ACC taxes up, feel like rego checking them and washing there cars in brake fluid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but thats un Christian I think, supposed to turn other cheek but really I feel like the Old Testament "eye for an eye" teaching......