Calling all suspension gurus

[flyingcr250]

i want to get my suspention setup for my weight, whos the crowd to see??

[B0000M]

greg / proride / danger from this forum

[honda_power]

im pretty sure you know what everyones going to say... aparantly danger. i dont think there is anyone in the waikato

[B0000M]

what do you weigh and what are you using the bike for? you may find depending on the bike and your figures it may just be adjustement of the clickers and the pre load that you need.

[flyingcr250]

what do you weigh and what are you using the bike for? you may find depending on the bike and your figures it may just be adjustement of the clickers and the pre load that you need.

95kg mainly just trailrides, with the odd day buzzing round a mx track. im gunna play with the clickers tomorrow .

[B0000M]

95kg mainly just trailrides, with the odd day buzzing round a mx track. im gunna play with the clickers tomorrow .

on the 300exc showing in your info?

[flyingcr250]

on the 300exc showing in your info?

thats the beastie, dont really know what im doing, suppose ill just keep clicking till it feels good. lol

[cs363]

Looks like it'll need more than a few clicks...

http://www.racetech.com/evalving/SpringRateCalculation/dirtspring.asp?brand=KTM&yr=2005&ml=300%20EXC&formuse=form1&SpringType=Fork&bikeid=926


:) Best give Danger a call




(*Edit: Looks like the link loses something in translation, just type your weight and click approriately on the other buttons :) )

[flyingcr250]

Looks like it'll need more than a few clicks...

http://www.racetech.com/evalving/SpringRateCalculation/dirtspring.asp?brand=KTM&yr=2005&ml=300%20EXC&formuse=form1&SpringType=Fork&bikeid=926


:) Best give Danger a call




(*Edit: Looks like the link loses something in translation, just type your weight and click approriately on the other buttons :) )

im useing my PS3, so that link doesnt work :Oi:
does any one know the stock clicker settings and the sag measurements???

[dammad1]

Have used Mark patterson in Rotorua and Richie from Moto SR in Whakatane, both with very good results.

[flyingcr250]

Have used Mark patterson in Rotorua and Richie from Moto SR in Whakatane, both with very good results.

what did you pay? if you dont mind me asking.

[pete.ktm]

Looks like theres no ride next week so now might be a good time to do a little tune up on my forks, anyone know of a good place in wgtn to take a look at some ktm forks. just really want the oil changed, internals checked out and maybe some suggestions on the clicker settings.

cheers

[kezzafish]

Looks like theres no ride next week so now might be a good time to do a little tune up on my forks, anyone know of a good place in wgtn to take a look at some ktm forks. just really want the oil changed, internals checked out and maybe some suggestions on the clicker settings.

cheers

No is the short answer but if you find someone let me know. I want to re-valve my KTM forks and was thinking i'd send em to Danger simply cos i've heard (read) his knowledge

[honda_power]

Moto21
Moto SR [RG3]
Suspension Tech
Race Tech
JTR Suspension

I have seen all these companies logos stuck on forks... Anyone know where they are all based? I know prorides Danger in Aucks, but what about the others? No info on the net.

[alistair1]

moto sr is in whakatane
revalve kyb/showa $585.90 wp-$666.23
rg3 smart valves for kyb and showa $393.99 for "super sick forks"
serviceing kyb/showa $378 wp $496

I dont know if thoose prices are for just one end or both but,,

the add was in march kiwirider...

[dammad1]

what did you pay? if you dont mind me asking.

Moto SR was about $700 for both ends, Mark patterson was about the same for my old KDX including front springs but I can't quite remember what he charged me for my last KTM, Mark is a real good guy and has been doing suspension for a long time and Richie at Moto SR was also excellent and very thorough.

[pete.ktm]

No is the short answer but if you find someone let me know. I want to re-valve my KTM forks and was thinking i'd send em to Danger simply cos i've heard (read) his knowledge

looks like it's TSS then. if i was doing anything other than just an oil change and general check i would have sent them away.

still they quoted $300 so i bloody better notice some difference (although in another thread someone mentioned that ktm seals alone cost $145!)

[kezzafish]

looks like it's TSS then. if i was doing anything other than just an oil change and general check i would have sent them away.

still they quoted $300 so i bloody better notice some difference (although in another thread someone mentioned that ktm seals alone cost $145!)

I'd have a go myself if i was you (but i'm not) i've done single cartridge fork seals before but am a bit scared to pull apart my twin cartridge forks and do valves (don't know what this involves).

$300 sounds a bit steep. Call Danger, there's a link to his website (proride) if you click on his name so you'll have to find a post of his but that won't be hard. At least this'll give you a second pricing opinion to base your decision apon. I'd rather support him than TSS. He's put hours of time into this forum sharing his vast knowledge (just like many in here) and offered me a good price for re valving. You may even want to look at this if you think it could help your bikes performance as he knows EXCs very well

[pete.ktm]

I'd have a go myself if i was you

i'm sure i could do the basic oil change but i probably wouldn't be able to identify any parts thats needed replacing.


$300 sounds a bit steep. Call Danger

it does sounds like too much, i'd expect some performance modifications for that money so will check what they're going to do before i drop it off.

i'd have liked to give it to danger to do his thing but this week isn't a good one for me to be removing forks and arranging couriers etc. On Saturday i can whip them off and take them to TSS. Hopefully they'll give me a money back guarantee :)

[Reckless]

Just got back from Dangers house setting up the sag, bolt torques etc after a re valve and new springs both ends for my fat butt!! $300 sounds a lot for change the oil and seals. A complete re valve where he takes the time to even machine some parts was only a bit more than your 300. He also knows Ktm's especially well and he does Karl Powers Ktm race bikes so he has an automatic good fast test rider all for himself. He spent a bit of time pointing out where most tuners go a bit wrong with the Ktm in the mid valve area so this may sound like an ad for him but its worth the courier fee and wait time in my opinion! Personally I'd miss a ride or two and get him to do it especially when your nearly at his re valve price for just the oil and seals.

I'll let you know how mine goes after Sundays ride!

[Sidewinder]

i want to get my suspention setup for my weight, whos the crowd to see??

Robert taylor would be the best i know of

[flyingcr250]

Robert taylor would be the best i know of

just gotta get things sorted with redrider bout my graphics(im lazy) then i think ill be up to see danger. does he set the sag aswell?? obviously id have to take the bike up to him.

[CRF119]

Give Derek Houghton a call or email him on 07 848 2008 or derek_h@ihug.co.nz he is in hamilton its D&D Racing Ltd

[Waxxa]

if you have the bikes' manual it will tell the standard set up when it is shipped out.

with that baseline already set, you need to calculate what each 'click' on your suspension is/to weight, then set the suspension accordingly to your weight.

Its pretty easy...

[flyingcr250]

if you have the bikes' manual it will tell the standard set up when it is shipped out.

with that baseline already set, you need to calculate what each 'click' on your suspension is/to weight, then set the suspension accordingly to your weight.

Its pretty easy...

ive got no manual..... ill just wait till i see danger.. :rolleyes:

[Reckless]

just gotta get things sorted with redrider bout my graphics(im lazy) then i think ill be up to see danger. does he set the sag aswell?? obviously id have to take the bike up to him.

He'll set the sag and teach you his way and come up with some settings for you to try!

[cs363]

if you have the bikes' manual it will tell the standard set up when it is shipped out.

with that baseline already set, you need to calculate what each 'click' on your suspension is/to weight, then set the suspension accordingly to your weight.

Its pretty easy...


The clickers don't have jack shit to do with your weight - that is what the springs are for and why you need to have the correct rate springs for your weight. It's rare that the factory set up will be correct for most riders, it might be close for some, but the reality is that most people will need to change springs at one or both ends to attain the ideal setup.

Valving needs to be dialled in to your weight and riding style - for instance an MX setting isn't going to suit an enduro rider or a trail rider and vice versa. Plus everyone has personal preferences within these generalisations.

On that note, the clickers are generally pretty useless too unless your internal valving is sorted as they are (on the majority of bikes) just a fine tuning device. Think of them as being similar to the air screw on your carby - if the jetting isn't right twiddling that isn't going to change the way your bike runs! :)

Checking your sag measurements (for free sag and rider sag) will give you a good indication of whether your standard springs are in the ballpark or not.
To be honest most original manuals aren't much help - best to get some info from someone who specialises in suspension.

Robert Taylor on here has a very good set up brochure available that he'd probably email you if you PM him, this details how to measure your sag and goes into more detail on the issues I've touched on above.

[Robert Taylor]

Just got back from Dangers house setting up the sag, bolt torques etc after a re valve and new springs both ends for my fat butt!! $300 sounds a lot for change the oil and seals. A complete re valve where he takes the time to even machine some parts was only a bit more than your 300. He also knows Ktm's especially well and he does Karl Powers Ktm race bikes so he has an automatic good fast test rider all for himself. He spent a bit of time pointing out where most tuners go a bit wrong with the Ktm in the mid valve area so this may sound like an ad for him but its worth the courier fee and wait time in my opinion! Personally I'd miss a ride or two and get him to do it especially when your nearly at his re valve price for just the oil and seals.

I'll let you know how mine goes after Sundays ride!

$300 is cheap! Remember though the old adage ''the cheapest job is very seldom the best job'' You can buy lots of cheap things at the Warehouse and you know the rest....

And in general..........................

Simplistically: SPRINGS ARE ABOUT POSITION ( AND SAG RATIOS )

DAMPING IS ABOUT CONTROLLING RATE OF CHANGE OF POSITION

External clickers and spring preload adjusters are NOT a magic fix all to make the bike easily adaptable from the lightest to the heaviest riders.
The spring rates must be suitable for the rider weight, it matters not whether you have ''the flavour of the month valves'' or the best you can buy ( Ohlins ) If the spring rates are not correct for you the bike just wont work properly. Yes that means buying springs and that is proportional to how far you value your own safety and competitiveness.

[pete.ktm]

The spring rates must be suitable for the rider weight, it matters not whether you have ''the flavour of the month valves'' or the best you can buy ( Ohlins ) If the spring rates are not correct for you the bike just wont work properly.

was just about to order some stiffer springs after playing with my sag, but thought i'd do it after riding this weekend if i wasn't happy.

question is does a heavier rider still need stiffer springs if he's doing trail rides and maybe bottoming the shock once or twice and not really likely to be busting 60 foot jumps (i wish).

and while the experts are here... if i set my ktm to 35mm static sag my race sag is 125mm, it should be 115mm. until i decide about the spring do i ride it at the correct static sag or do i adjust the shock so i have the correct race sag? a couple of search results say the ktms have got to have 35mm static.

cheers.

[Reckless]

$300 is cheap! Remember though the old adage ''the cheapest job is very seldom the best job'' You can buy lots of .

I know you Rob and you are probably the best out of all. Danger is one of your registered Race tech guys and he's local for me and the most helpful guy around. So I went local for my dirt bike. He tends to specialise a bit in Ktm as well. His fees are more than the $300 for a revalve I think my words where "for a little more" not $300 flat as you indicate. I didn't want to start quoting prices on his behalf in public, you see! In my case you'd add front and rear springs to the front revalve, he uses race tech springs and says they are the only ones to use for dependable spring rates.
So you'd have to add together many hundreds to get to what I just spent setting my new bike up for my weight.

I'm pretty confident I have one of the best jobs, no matter what it may have cost.
You may be jumping to quickly to preconceived conclusions to soon my friend!



was just about to order some stiffer springs after playing with my sag, but thought i'd do it after riding this weekend if i wasn't happy.

question is does a heavier rider still need stiffer springs if he's doing trail rides and maybe bottoming the shock once or twice and not really likely to be busting 60 foot jumps (i wish).

and while the experts are here... if i set my ktm to 35mm static sag my race sag is 125mm, it should be 115mm. until i decide about the spring do i ride it at the correct static sag or do i adjust the shock so i have the correct race sag? a couple of search results say the ktms have got to have 35mm static.

cheers.

Look Rob's probably going to post and prove me wrong but that way I see it static sag is only and indication that your spring is right or wrong. So your doing it backwards as a huge amount of people do! First you set rider sag, than if static sag doesn't come in with what it should be your rear spring is wrong. Front springs are worked out for you by the tuner or go to the race tech site and there is a very good system there. You can't guess it by going for a ride and swapping springs! Its calculated for your bike and rider weight with gear. With the correct spring fitted you set the rider sag say 110 or 115mm and the static sag should automatically be within range. Taking into account your allowance for stiction of coarse.
So if you set rider sag to 35mm with a too soft spring it will ride low, be soft and possibly bottom out on jumps and whoops. Because you are to heavy for it. If you use the same spring and set rider sag to say 115mm by compressing the spring the ride wll be harsh as the spring will be pre-compressed and not give full travel and a plush ride. It'll still bottom out as well. Hopefully I've got it right I've only been riding enduro bikes 2 years??? Its important to do both ends, or if not, better to do nothing and have a soft bike all round? I think?? your figures are much better than mine so should be not to bad to ride till you can do the lot. I had 145mm rider sag at 35mm static. So I just set the rider sag to about 120mm (should have been about 110mm for my preference) and put up with it for 4 months till I could get front and rear all done at once.

Race tech http://www.racetech.com/evalving/menu/searchdirt.asp
Sorry mate Race tech only go up to 05 for my bike (bit slack) you may have to go to Rob, Pm Danger or your local tuner and suss out what you need??

Edit sorry meant to say click on the red "Custom Fork and Rear Shock Spring Calculation and Available Rates" thingy!

[pete.ktm]

Look Rob's probably going to post and prove me wrong but that way I see it static sag is only and indication that your spring is right or wrong.

yeah thats what half the internet say, the other half say the static sag is important on ktm's.

a couple of examples...

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/179/2482/Motorcycle-Article/2009-KTM-450-XC-W-Bike-Test.aspx


At just over 200 lbs, I'm heavier than these designed spring rates, but they still work extremely well even at race speed. For the shock, I am running the static sag at the recommended 35mm and not worrying about the race sag, I did try adding an extra turn of preload but it didn't improve anything.

my bikes manual


DETERMINING THE STATIC SAG OF THE SHOCK ABSORBER
The static sag should be as close as possible to 35 mm. Deviations of more than 2 mm can strongly influence the motorcycle's performance.

After installing a different spring, readjust the static sag to 35 mm (± 2 mm).

i just find it hard to beleive that if paul whibley and i are the same weight we'd use the same spring rate, or is the BIG speed difference fixed with re-valving?

[Reckless]

yeah thats what half the internet say, the other half say the static sag is important on ktm's.

Look pete I'll take a punt but getting way way outa my league here!!!

I think static sag is very important but its to have the correct spring to give the correct rider and static sag. I think if you have the wrong spring in so you can only get one of the two that's why 1/2 the Internet disagree with each other. If you have the springs correct there'd be no argument the figures will be correct for both static and race sag! So Argument over!


i just find it hard to believe that if Paul whibley and i are the same weight we'd use the same spring rate, or is the BIG speed difference fixed with re-valving?

I think the short answer to this is yes you would. I can only go back to Roberts last post and quote "SPRINGS ARE ABOUT POSITION ( AND SAG RATIOS )" so yes you would have the same springs to give you max travel for your weight, making it plush. Then Paul may valve his completely different "DAMPING IS ABOUT CONTROLLING RATE OF CHANGE OF POSITION" because of his more aggressive riding style. But you would both want to use the full travel of springs (front and rear) that were correct for your weight?? I think?????

I do enduro (sand, trees, beach, farm, mud, hard pack) but MX every Wednesday and the odd Sat at Harrisville on my 200EXC so my rider sag is set at 109mm which gives me 32mm static sag. Stiction was 4mm so 2mm added the the original figures.The revavle was also a little bit of a compromise as the jumps at Harrisville are quite large. If i was enduro only I could soften mine to 112 or 115mm (I like it a fraction softer than the book) and get the 35mm static but only because the spring is correct for my 100kg. Book says 35 + - 2mm and 105 rider + - 5mm, but I don't think they make springs that would give you exact figures anyway. Sounds like if you have to make a compromise it should be with rider sag not static sag if Ktm are correct. I can only get close to both these figures because my springs are correct. Otherwise I'm back to the Internet argument which is more important Rider or static sag. I don't have that problem as my springs are right. The revalve has no effect on these figures.

The other thing to remember is of coarse aligning the forks correctly when puting the wheel back on is very very important to stop fork binding, seals wearing out etc!

OH shit now I've shot my mouth off and quoted actual figures set myself up for a right rogering haven't I! LOL!!!
But please if I have got it all wrong I'd like to know/learn more from someone much more qualified then my stupid ravings!!

[Danger]

Looks like I need to put my prices up lol! Anyway that will be happening and I've just received a fax to inform me that all KTM parts will be going up 15% from 9th of April, so as expected their expensive rear springs will be going up even more soon! Not to mention the last 25 litres of oil I got from KTM NZ also went up another $80.00! I can only absorb extra costs for so long.

Race Tech springs have also gone up recently and are the only springs I use other than the WP rears due to there higher degree of accuracy.

Pete I only skimmed quickly through the thread but I didn't see what you weighed? Anyway numbers are only numbers and the KTM manuals have been wrong for years although I believe later editions have had some updates and are better than what they were.

While its true that KTM's work better generally with more sag, I like to use a range of 110 +/- 5mm. For static I like a range between 30-35mm and thats for a progressive spring. For a straight I use 35mm +/- 5mm. I start with these because they are what I've found works best, but everyone is different, every bike is different and can be effected by wheel placement in the swing arm, N2 pressure, and the springs can vary by a 5% manufacturing variance. You see figures on the internet of 40-45mm static, but I seldom find bikes capable of running that much static. Real heavy straight rates with very little preload perhaps, but preload is important to some degree because it pushes the wheel into the ground and depressions for traction.
So I start with these numbers, but encourage riders to try a turn more or less of preload to find what works for them. Very small adjustments to preload or front fork height can bring about good improvements to handling.

If you want a quick answer Pete call me on 09 832 0153 Mon-Fri 9.00-5.30 to discuss your required spring rates.

[barty5]

Looks like I need to put my prices up lol! Anyway that will be happening and I've just received a fax to inform me that all KTM parts will be going up 15% from 9th of April, so as expected their expensive rear springs will be going up even more soon! Not to mention the last 25 litres of oil I got from KTM NZ also went up another $80.00! I can only absorb extra costs for so long.

Race Tech springs have also gone up recently and are the only springs I use other than the WP rears due to there higher degree of accuracy.

Pete I only skimmed quickly through the thread but I didn't see what you weighed? Anyway numbers are only numbers and the KTM manuals have been wrong for years although I believe later editions have had some updates and are better than what they were.

While its true that KTM's work better generally with more sag, I like to use a range of 110 +/- 5mm. For static I like a range between 30-35mm and thats for a progressive spring. For a straight I use 35mm +/- 5mm. I start with these because they are what I've found works best, but everyone is different, every bike is different and can be effected by wheel placement in the swing arm, N2 pressure, and the springs can vary by a 5% manufacturing variance. You see figures on the internet of 40-45mm static, but I seldom find bikes capable of running that much static. Real heavy straight rates with very little preload perhaps, but preload is important to some degree because it pushes the wheel into the ground and depressions for traction.
So I start with these numbers, but encourage riders to try a turn more or less of preload to find what works for them. Very small adjustments to preload or front fork height can bring about good improvements to handling.

If you want a quick answer Pete call me on 09 832 0153 Mon-Fri 9.00-5.30 to discuss your required spring rates.

got to ask what is so special about KTM oil and why wouldnt you buy from an oil company??

[Reckless]

got to ask what is so special about KTM oil and why wouldnt you buy from an oil company??

Unless you own a pumpkin you'd never understand !!! :bleh:
You'd never give cheap champagne to a girl you where tryin to :hug: :buggerd: would ya!!! :bash: :laugh:

[barty5]

Unless you own a pumpkin you'd never understand !!! :bleh:
You'd never give cheap champagne to a girl you where tryin to :hug: :buggerd: would ya!!! :bash: :laugh:

bike co dont make oil they just repackage it and add on there cost plus profit. Hence since i ride a yamaha i dont dont yamaha oil cause it anit any better than most other brands.

[Reckless]

bike co dont make oil they just repackage it and add on there cost plus profit. Hence since i ride a yamaha i dont dont yamaha oil cause it anit any better than most other brands.

Agreed! I was just pullin your chain :clap: :Pokey:

[Danger]

Not all oils are created equal. The best I have used in my forks is a Race Tech oil but its too expensive for general use and was one time blended by Motorex (no longer though I believe).

You do your research, you test different oils (although I have not tested any where near all of them) and you find some oils come out of a fork like treacle, some come out like water, some oxidize and cause fork pump, some don't work well with some seals, some stink and some just make the fork feel harsh. You need something that will stand up to 30-50 hours of abuse before they noticeably deteriorate, which they all will.
Viscocity index is just a range, not all 5 weights for example are the same, some act like a 2.5 weight in another brand, some act like a 7.5 weight. You find something that works, doesn't break down in a hurry, doesn't swell seals, doesn't pump up or oxidize in a hurry and is readily available for a reasonable cost and you need consistency of supply and performance. No good testing with one brand only to have to change brands and have different performance occur.
I don't like using a fork oil as some will do in the shock. The shock is susceptible to a lot higher temperature than a fork and particularly a PDS shock that has a lot of damping with the two piston design is very hard on fluid, so a higher spec shock fluid is required for these applications.

I do have contacts testing various oils and fluids and am not adverse to further testing of recommended oils. No way do I have a closed mind.
As for buying oil of a oil company, one of the oils being tested is BP bartran HV 22, but at this stage I have no results and little other information available, but anything is possible in the future.

[cheese]

LOL well that would answer your question.

Greg I hope that you aren't a two finger turbo typist cause I hate to think that you wasted half a day typing responses!!!

[barty5]

LOL well that would answer your question.

Greg I hope that you aren't a two finger turbo typist cause I hate to think that you wasted half a day typing responses!!!

no just tell me he buys over priced oil from ktm really as there is nothing i can find on any oil that ktm label as there own reality is it cou;d be anything but hey if it works for you thenn go for it. My self ill stick with the elf products never had any problems with over the last 6 years but a least you know who made it. Hell who knows ktm could be reboltling elf oil any you wouldnt know but buying direct would be cheaper.

[Danger]

no just tell me he buys over priced oil from ktm really as there is nothing i can find on any oil that ktm label as there own reality is it cou;d be anything but hey if it works for you thenn go for it. My self ill stick with the elf products never had any problems with over the last 6 years but a least you know who made it. Hell who knows ktm could be reboltling elf oil any you wouldnt know but buying direct would be cheaper.

Your the one that calls it KTM oil, not me, I never called it that. KTM New Zealand imports Motorex oil which I use, so not really sure what your point is and no where did I say how much I paid for it so how you would know I'm paying too much for over priced oil is also beyond me.
But thanks for wasting my time with such a quality discussion. :yawn:

[barty5]

Your the one that calls it KTM oil, not me, I never called it that. KTM New Zealand imports Motorex oil which I use, so not really sure what your point is and no where did I say how much I paid for it so how you would know I'm paying too much for over priced oil is also beyond me.
But thanks for wasting my time with such a quality discussion. :yawn:

that would be your own fault as the way you wrote it it implied it was ktm you never stated it was in fact motorex although you did metion motorex. I was saying that any oil you or anyone for that matter gets that is rebranded as someone elses you will allways pay to much for look at repco branded oil it just very low quailty mobil oil rebranded as there own same with yamaha oil.

[pete.ktm]

OH shit now I've shot my mouth off and quoted actual figures set myself up for a right rogering haven't I! LOL!!!

thanx reckless, i think you pretty much nailed it.

i had a talk to danger today and got some good info. cheers greg. even though i said i wasn't going to spend any more $ on my bike for a while i'll probably order some springs from danger. damn i thought it was thursday today, might give you a ring tomorrow morning greg but if you read this tonight you think theres any chance of couriering then down to wgtn to arrive friday??

and for anyone thinking it's about time to get your forks checked out, TSS charged $180 for "striped forks down and bleed out all old oil, cleaned base valves and all parts, assembled forks and fitted new fork oil, bleed air and set oil height, assembled forks and checked clickers". 2.25 hrs labour.

bit better than the initial $300 they quoted.

[Danger]

Arguing on the internet is like running at the special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

[Danger]

thanx reckless, i think you pretty much nailed it.

i had a talk to danger today and got some good info. cheers greg. even though i said i wasn't going to spend any more $ on my bike for a while i'll probably order some springs from danger. damn i thought it was thursday today, might give you a ring tomorrow morning greg but if you read this tonight you think theres any chance of couriering then down to wgtn to arrive friday??

and for anyone thinking it's about time to get your forks checked out, TSS charged $180 for "striped forks down and bleed out all old oil, cleaned base valves and all parts, assembled forks and fitted new fork oil, bleed air and set oil height, assembled forks and checked clickers". 2.25 hrs labour.

bit better than the initial $300 they quoted.

Give me a call in the morning and I'll see what I can do Pete.

[Robert Taylor]

Arguing on the internet is like running at the special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

Got to agree with that and what you have relayed through successive posts. If I may add a couple of points because I think so much is dictated by people wanting to compromise excessively because they are often not so willing to pay out money to achieve the correct result!

1) SAG RATIO Both static and 1G readings are just as important as one another! Sometimes you can achieve a better result for yourself by testing a spring rate either side of the supposed ideal and the ideal can vary from track to track. In road racing with the top riders spring rate selection is ultimately most subservient to best laptimes and the amount of tyre degradation for any given number of laps. Ditto for valving, every track is different be it sealed course or dirt

2) CHEAP OILS Dont skimp on oil and who really knows or not if KTM oil ( made by Motorex or whomever )doesnt have a specific bucket of additives by request? On a typical motocross track the suspension undergoes 17,000 compression cycles EVERY lap so oil selection and stability is VERY important. We stock and sell LOTS of genuine Ohlins oil and frankly it is the very very best and we use in Japanese shocks as well. It is brewed specifically for Ohlins by a state owned Norwegian company Statoil. I am guessing that it is also the most expensive suspension oil on the NZ market at $58 per litre inclusive. But we sell lots of it.

[barty5]

Hell I only ask a question (never tried to start some sort of arguement) what was so special about the (ktm oil ) as no other brand labels where mentioned a simple the oil we use is motorex of which ktm import would have done which would have also explained purchasing form them aswell instead of an oil CO. Instead you get a whole pile of techno gragon about research which was not what i was interested in. Then we have to start hassling the special Olympician (hell they have enough of there own problem they dont need us takin digs at them).

[Robert Taylor]

Hell I only ask a question (never tried to start some sort of arguement) what was so special about the (ktm oil ) as no other brand labels where mentioned a simple the oil we use is motorex of which ktm import would have done which would have also explained purchasing form them aswell instead of an oil CO. Instead you get a whole pile of techno gragon about research which was not what i was interested in. Then we have to start hassling the special Olympician (hell they have enough of there own problem they dont need us takin digs at them).

Regardless I am sure there are a number of readers who recognise the spirit in which the info was given, to provide info and provoke thought. Nothing sinister or whatever

[camchain]

One thing for certain. Most of us are pretty good with frequent engine oil changes but suspension oil gets neglected (and pounded). I cringe every time I put my hand on hot shock reservoir and think of the rotten state my shock oil must be in. Wish it was easy to change. Do nitrogen bladders need recharging as well? Maybe when suspension specialists start importing Oh Lin's Lucky Sky Cloud brand oil/parts I'll be able to afford a proper service job.

[barty5]

Regardless I am sure there are a number of readers who recognise the spirit in which the info was given, to provide info and provoke thought. Nothing sinister or whatever

No im sure your right but i was only after a simple answer to what i thought was a simple question.

[Robert Taylor]

No im sure your right but i was only after a simple answer to what i thought was a simple question.

We may all like it to be simple but its not.

[Robert Taylor]

One thing for certain. Most of us are pretty good with frequent engine oil changes but suspension oil gets neglected (and pounded). I cringe every time I put my hand on hot shock reservoir and think of the rotten state my shock oil must be in. Wish it was easy to change. Do nitrogen bladders need recharging as well? Maybe when suspension specialists start importing Oh Lin's Lucky Sky Cloud brand oil/parts I'll be able to afford a proper service job.

Nitogen under pressure at 10 to 14 bar migrates through the bladder into the oil, much like a car tyre leaks/ bleeds off pressure into the atmosphere. This areates the oil very quickly and detracts from the performance and induces fade more readily. Despite what Paul Thede from Race Tech will tell you there is an over-riding reason for widespread use of bladders on mass produced shocks, COST. You simply do not have to have a perfectly round and smooth finished bore to accept a low friction dividing gas piston such as you will find in high end dampers such as Ohlins, WP and Penske.
Technically the moment you pick up your new Japanese motox bike off the showroom floor the oil is already well aereated. For optimum performance the oil should be changed every 10 hours. While we are all mindful of cost considerations its not a great idea to skimp on oil cost and therefore quality and stability of performance.

[Reckless]

thanx reckless, i think you pretty much nailed it.

Shit all these good suspension guru's on here and no-ones corrected my post and explanation!
Jeepers what Danger has been teaching me must have sunk in (or no ones read it) LOL!!!


No I'm sure your right but i was only after a simple answer to what i thought was a simple question.

I think your getting applying std engine oil practice to very specialist Suspension stuff Barty, that's why you got Danger telling you exactly why he uses what he does with Robert backing him up.

When I was racing the kart I had a chat with a chemist from Shell (about the time I bought that new YZ250 engine off you Robert). I was trying to find something that would mix with Avgas, so not having to use toluene as a mixing agent, no joy there so went to Methanol. But during that conversation I he did say that oils packed and labeled for turbo's, diesels or good for this type of car or that etc was exactly the same oil packaged/labeled differently for different markets. That was a few years ago now though, whether its still done this way is up to you to decide! So I think your theory barty is correct! I think the error was applying it to a specialist area like suspension!

Nuff said! topic closed!!!!!