Moral dilemma -advice please

[FROSTY]

A youngish chap wanders into the shop looking at bikes. We have a bit of a yarn and he's got a learners licence. Ok conversation carrys on and I show him a couple of 250's . Things progress in a promising manner so away we go on a test ride. Clearly this chap is on a licence to learn. His ride skills are basicly non existent.
Back to the shop and we yarn some more and the young chap hauls a wad of cash out of pocket. "Yep I want that one" pointing to a much bigger more powerfull bike.

Heres the dillema.
How do I tell him he can't have the bike in a way thats gonna keep him happy? Or at least not pissed off with us?
Him buying that bike off me is not an option but I just can't figure out how to sugar the pill. Ive already told him about licence requirements etc.

What I really wanna say is "Go away, learn to ride propperly then come back for a grunty bike if you are still keen"

[Devil]

Be straight up, but not quite so frosty blunt heh.

You need to say that you cannot, as a responsible human, sell him that bike.

[riffer]

Tell him the Dealers Code of Conduct forbids you from selling vehicles to people who don't have the licence for them.

[sunhuntin]

so him youtube videos of young [and not so young] americans who think they can handle huge bikes after unwrapping their shiny new license.

alternately, guilt him by saying that your business would get in the shit for selling a big bike to a learner [honestly, if theres not, there should be a law preventing the sale of such bikes to learner riders]

[MsKABC]

Tell him the Dealers Code of Conduct forbids you from selling vehicles to people who don't have the licence for them.

Yeah, tell him you'll get in big trouble if you sell him that bike.

[Scouse]

Tell him you will only sell him that bike if he gives you a blowjob with a full swallow.

[Mystic13]

How big's the other bike? And what type.

So if he comes back and a full licence rider takes it away then you're okay.

Include some lessons in the sale price and give him some time in the weekend. How long does his learners have to go. We all know that the licensing system is up the creek. Most kids go and sit the theory test / practical cert. and then do no driving till just before (weeks before) they have to do the test.

It seems like he wants to ride and be involved with bikes and you being the friendly helpful biker that you are can probably get him going on bikes in a safe way. The alternative is he'll go elsewhere and get the bike and then learn the hard way.

Whip him over to the paddock for practise.

I'm sure you'll know what to do.

[FROSTY]

alternately, guilt him by saying that your business would get in the shit for selling a big bike to a learner [honestly, if theres not, there should be a law preventing the sale of such bikes to learner riders]
believe it or not there isn't a law stopping him from buying the bike.
The second the wheels are on public land he's breaking the law though

[MsKABC]

believe it or not there isn't a law stopping him from buying the bike.


Yeah, but does HE know that?

He's not trying to trade a 2007 Honda NSR mc21 SP is he? :laugh:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1982492#post1982492

[ManDownUnder]

Tough one but ultimately is the customer's choice. I'd personally tell him what you think his chances of survival are, why you're concerned but if he's adamant on taking the bigger bike he's going to do it - either from you or someone else.

So - if you can sell him that bike and still sleep at night:
1) Point him in the direction of a RRRS course and/or mentor (NOT you... for conflict of interest reasons)
2) Give him a list of safety gear and where you suggest he gets it

And anything else you think he needs to stay alive on the roads.

The fact is he will buy the bike... I'd be looking at it from the point of view that anyone else selling him one won't give a toss and he'll be in an even worse position than if you give him at least a few decent pointers.

[mikeey01]

This is a hard one Frosty...
If you don't seel him one, you know dam well he'll go else where and buy one.
If you do sell him one and he rides it on the road etc etc....

I'd sell it to him but also give him a bit of advise too, as well as the law. I'd even go as far as letting him know the way you feel.
Remember you can't hold the throttle for him, if he's gonna be an idiot he'll do it on anyones bike!

ennie - meanie - miney - mo.. does he get it - or does he go?
lol, gonna be a tough one... sell it to him man, he'll go else where anyway!
Nothing stopping him do a trademe purchase.

[MsKABC]

lol, gonna be a tough one... sell it to him man, he'll go else where anyway!
Nothing stopping him do a trademe purchase.

See now I would take the opposite view of: Let him go somewhere else! At least then it's not my problem and it's not on my conscience.

[MSTRS]

Moral dilemma, for sure. Nothing illegal there, tho.
Tell him straight up what the risks and costs :Police: are, and if he's still adamant...either sell him the bike, or refuse to.
Direct him to these hallowed halls and we'll tell him not to be a cock...
Sux to be you in this sort of situation

[Hoon]

I'd sell it with the understanding that he owns it but is not legally able to ride it yet. He'd need to trailer it away or get a full licenced rider to take it home where it would be stored/ridden in a controlled environment until he gets his full.

That's the understanding anyway... the old "I'm just gonna push it home officer!" routine.

[BMWST?]

sell him the 250 and tell him to come back when he has fulfilled the requiremnts as SET OUT BY LAW and you will give him the deal of the century on another bike/gear

[JimO]

dont sell him the bike because shure as eggs his old man will be down on you like a ton of bricks when he kills himself on it

[FROSTY]

Tough one but ultimately is the customer's choice. I'd personally tell him what you think his chances of survival are, why you're concerned but if he's adamant on taking the bigger bike he's going to do it - either from you or someone else.
No sorry mate I will NOT sell him the bike.
If he goes somewhere else I can't stop him but Im not selling him a big bike.

[Starky307]

Explain that he is not lawfully alowed to ride the bigger bike and then take his cash when he persists and wont listen to you. When he suits up to ride it away call the fuzz to ticket him. haha.

[mikeey01]

See now I would take the opposite view of: Let him go somewhere else! At least then it's not my problem and it's not on my conscience.


God I hate it when women are right, now that a rational, logic thought process. arrrrrrrrrr :shutup:



That's the understanding anyway... the old "I'm just gonna push it home officer!" routine.

:rofl:

Frosty I guess in the end, your the one facing the customer and only you would be able to make a call on him and the purchase.
Respect if ya don't sell it to him though.

[Mikkel]

Yeah, but does HE know that?

Hardly the best approach to intentionally mislead people in order to keep them safe...


Moral dilemma, for sure. Nothing illegal there, tho.
Tell him straight up what the risks and costs :Police: are, and if he's still adamant...either sell him the bike, or refuse to.
Direct him to these hallowed halls and we'll tell him not to be a cock...
Sux to be you in this sort of situation

+1

It's his life, just make sure he's making a (semi-)informed decision before he puts his life and mobility on the line.

[MsKABC]

God I hate it when women are right, now that a rational, logic thought process. arrrrrrrrrr :shutup:

:rofl:

Thanks, I guess my work here is done *tips hat and swaggers away* :laugh:

[MsKABC]

Hardly the best approach to intentionally mislead people in order to keep them safe...


Maybe so, but it allows Frosty to save face without looking like the bad guy.

[Nasty]

A youngish chap wanders into the shop looking at bikes. We have a bit of a yarn and he's got a learners licence. Ok conversation carrys on and I show him a couple of 250's . Things progress in a promising manner so away we go on a test ride. Clearly this chap is on a licence to learn. His ride skills are basicly non existent.
Back to the shop and we yarn some more and the young chap hauls a wad of cash out of pocket. "Yep I want that one" pointing to a much bigger more powerfull bike.

Heres the dillema.
How do I tell him he can't have the bike in a way thats gonna keep him happy? Or at least not pissed off with us?
Him buying that bike off me is not an option but I just can't figure out how to sugar the pill. Ive already told him about licence requirements etc.

What I really wanna say is "Go away, learn to ride propperly then come back for a grunty bike if you are still keen"

Legally you can sell him anything he wants. It is really not your role to do anything else - that is up to the police. You seem to have informed him and that is where your role stops.

Are you asking for advice to sell it and therefore you can justify by saying but they said thats ok ... or for others to say not sell it and then you can say .. I didn't make the sale on advice of others.

Its called using your own balls and business sense - not getting others to justify your own decisions - as that is a short way to run a business into the ground - and yes I know its been a year but most small businesses live to a total of two - five.

[BM-GS]

Explain that you can't do it according to your concience and experience. Tell him what happens to those who fool with more horses than they're able (YouTube will be helpful) and that you'd love to sell him the bike in 6 months when he can prove he's up to it.

Tell him where to get the right gear so that he can get it now, not need more kit when he gets the next bike, and tell him to get some training.

Or take off a plug lead or 2...

[Swoop]

No sorry mate I will NOT sell him the bike.
If he goes somewhere else I can't stop him but Im not selling him a big bike.
Respect!
I have spoken with a car dealer who says that ALL dealers have to stand firm on decisions like this.
Plenty of Chinese kids arrive with boxes of cash and no licence. The dealer will not sell but knows that the kid will just go down the road until he finds someone who will sell to him.
This puts even more danger on the roads, for the purchaser and also for the rest of the population.

[Slyer]

Sell him the bike, his problem.
But only after strongly advising him of the risk and highly recommending a 250 to learn on.

[tigertim20]

Tough situation, but heres the reality, as a shop owner, thats lost income. So why dont you have the best of all worlds. Tell him youll ONLY sell it to him if he brings you a receipt for a riding course, that way youll know he has a willingness to learn and be safe. You are screwed if you do and screwed if you dont. You would feel guilty if he gets messed up on a bike you sell him, sure, but wont you feel just as guilty if you find out he messed himself up on a bike that someone who didnt care sold him a powerful bike? Im just saying youre in a position to positively influence him

[Mikkel]

Maybe so, but it allows Frosty to save face without looking like the bad guy.

So you suggest that not looking like the bad guy is actually better than being the bad guy (i.e. not upfront and honest)?

Clearly stating that he won't sell the bike to a learner due to his conscience is taking a stand and being honest about it. Fabricating some semi-plausible - but factually incorrect - excuse is a piss-weak way to go (and stupid too, since a 2 minute phonecall would be enough to uncover the truth - so much for returning customer and reputation).

[Starky307]

Plenty of Chinese kids arrive with boxes of cash and no licence. The dealer will not sell but knows that the kid will just go down the road until he finds someone who will sell to him.
This puts even more danger on the roads, for the purchaser and also for the rest of the population.

That is exactly what was going through my mind when I read the first post.

[MsKABC]

So you suggest that not looking like the bad guy is actually better than being the bad guy (i.e. not upfront and honest)?

Clearly stating that he won't sell the bike to a learner due to his conscience is taking a stand and being honest about it. Fabricating some semi-plausible - but factually incorrect - excuse is a piss-weak way to go (and stupid too, since a 2 minute phonecall would be enough to uncover the truth - so much for returning customer and reputation).

Well don't hold back, tell us what you really think! :rolleyes:

[HenryDorsetCase]

What I really wanna say is "Go away, learn to ride propperly then come back for a grunty bike if you are still keen"

I would love to sell you this bike but I wont, for two reasons:

1. I am not allowed to because you do not have the appropriate class of licence, and when you fall off it, which I think you will, it could come back to me, particularly if you are injured or killed; and

2. I dont think you have the skills. How about we see about getting you some skills, at this course or do this trackday or something like that.


Worst case scenario: he goes off somewhere else buys a big bike and kills himself, but your conscience is clear.

best case scenario: he listens, gets some skills and you have a customer for life, which hopefully will be long and fruitful.

Next question. :)

[ManDownUnder]

No sorry mate I will NOT sell him the bike.
If he goes somewhere else I can't stop him but Im not selling him a big bike.

And my total and utter respect for you on that! Don't question that for a second.

Then all you can do is explain your point of view. Don't sugar coat it - put it in context instead. Tight economic times, he should be very aware everyone's doing what they can to get by and of course you'd dearly love him to buy all the machinery off you that he can afford... but you're not going to sell him THAT bike - because it'll possibly kill him and you've seen enough people die already.

It's then his choice - buy the smaller bike off you... or not.

[Ecclesnz]

Firstly I have huge respect for Frosty for thinking about what is best for his customer, not what's best for his pocket.

I can understand the huge appeal of wanting big fast bike. However there are plenty of small fast bikes too. Why not recommend one fo the smaller bikes, let him try it for a whort time (3 days say) and take him out for a ride during that time so he can see what all can be done on the little pocket rockets.

ALso why not offer him a good trade in deal when he gets his full as an incentive to go with the legal option at this stage?

In all honesty I don't know the size of your business and if either option is one that is financially viable, however just providing a couple of options from a different perspective.

[CookMySock]

You're a good bloke Frosty, but you can't save the world from itself, bro. You could tell him "the price of that bike just went up a grand."

In the end, cash is king mate. I'd take his money, then I would give him the lecture "wreck it at the first roundabout and its not my problem, AGREED? Good. Maim yourself on it and its not my problem? Goood. Add a few scary stories of your own, then offer his money back to him. If he is adamant, then he will either buy it from you or from some one else. Might as well be you. Then I'd do the paperwork, and then straight-up tell him he's a fucken idiot, and tell him to fuck off.

I think it is up to you. Can you bear seeing this young fella in the headlines tomorrow? No? Theres your answer then.

Steve

[Mystic13]

We still don't know how big the bike is and for me there is a line between a GS550 and a GSXR1000.

Having said that it's not our place to sit and decide what is right or wrong for another person. Yeah I know that this forum often takes the other stance.

I guess for each of us there's a line and for me a bigger bike with some lessons would be okay but a rally big bike would be a no.

There's a lot of info missing like how old the guy is. So without knowing the full situation it's hard to make a call. But for me the line isn't down at the sell him a "250 or smaller" thing.

Some here are taking the view that you're selling a machine that he'll kill himself on. The other view is you're selling him a machine that he'll discover the wonders of riding on.

Frosty isn't selling. We don't get to know what his line is. Just that this bigger bike and the age and skill of the kid crossed the line for him.

[FROSTY]

Legally you can sell him anything he wants. It is really not your role to do anything else - that is up to the police. You seem to have informed him and that is where your role stops.

Are you asking for advice to sell it and therefore you can justify by saying but they said thats ok ... or for others to say not sell it and then you can say .. I didn't make the sale on advice of others.

Its called using your own balls and business sense - not getting others to justify your own decisions - as that is a short way to run a business into the ground - and yes I know its been a year but most small businesses live to a total of two - five.
Im asking for advice on how to say NO in a nice way
Im asking the advice here because there are a lot of younger Bikers in here. Their prospective is the prospective Im asking for
Th quote myself
Him buying that bike off me is not an option but I just can't figure out how to sugar the pill. Ive already told him about licence requirements etc.

Quite franklY I dont give a shit about my "role" I wont sell him the bike in good concience.

[FROSTY]

I would love to sell you this bike but I wont, for two reasons:

1. I am not allowed to because you do not have the appropriate class of licence, and when you fall off it, which I think you will, it could come back to me, particularly if you are injured or killed; and

2. I dont think you have the skills. How about we see about getting you some skills, at this course or do this trackday or something like that.


Worst case scenario: he goes off somewhere else buys a big bike and kills himself, but your conscience is clear.

best case scenario: he listens, gets some skills and you have a customer for life, which hopefully will be long and fruitful.

Next question. :)
Thank you :2thumbsup

[Nasty]

Im asking for advice on how to say NO in a nice way
Im asking the advice here because there are a lot of younger Bikers in here. Their prospective is the prospective Im asking for
Th quote myself
Him buying that bike off me is not an option but I just can't figure out how to sugar the pill. Ive already told him about licence requirements etc.

Quite franklY I dont give a shit about my "role" I wont sell him the bike in good concience.

I hope that is good conscience ... its simple ... you say I won't sell it to you. If you don't want to sell it don't. Don't expect to see him again ... and don't expect to sell anything to any of his friends .. because you are not going to get those future sales either.

ts not about saying no politely as you can't. Just gut the shit and don't bother sugering the pill - cos to most young people that in itself will fuck them off.

[ducatilover]

Don't sell him the bike. You may get a reputation as "the dodgy learner smuggler" or something to that effect. I did what that young chap is doing and I have to put up with a lot of bodily shortcomings now. He may not be as lucky as me, you might be able to help him realise it's a dumb idea and the more expensive 250 is puuurrrrfect for him:bleh:

[Blackshear]

Quite frankly I dont give a shit about my "role" I wont sell him the bike in good concience.

Are you able to refer him to someone else?
Did you ask WHY he wanted a bigger bike?
If the answer is 'cause they're faster and I'd look cooler', then you know pretty damn well he's gonna die down the first straight he gets to.

"Look, kid. You look like a real pretty fella. If I sell you this bike and you die, this will bare on me for a few years to come. How about we go out for a ride sometime, then I'll sell ya the bike?'
If he says naw, I wannit. Then... Well... You are a business man :(

[Mikkel]

Im asking for advice on how to say NO in a nice way
Im asking the advice here because there are a lot of younger Bikers in here. Their prospective is the prospective Im asking for
Th quote myself
Him buying that bike off me is not an option but I just can't figure out how to sugar the pill. Ive already told him about licence requirements etc.

Just tell him no and explain why that is your decision.

If he's a good bastard he'll understand your concern - whether he agrees with it or not - and there will be no hard feelings.

If he isn't a good bastard no amount of sugaring the pill is going to make him happy anyway and you should just be happy to not have to deal with a problematic customer in the future.

[MSTRS]

OK, Frosty has said he won't sell a larger-than-legal bike to this young fella. Good.
He also has said that he doesn't know how to say no, in a way that won't upset this young wannabe.
The thing is, no matter what or how you say no, it is the no that is more likely to piss this kid off. That's his problem, not yours Frosty.
Is he some shady character, who is likely to come back 'after hours'? Or is there some other reason for not wanting to upset him?

[prettybillie]

What I really wanna say is "Go away, learn to ride propperly then come back for a grunty bike if you are still keen"

This is the best way to say it.....we don't need anymore statistics on the road :headbang:

[FROSTY]

Is he some shady character, who is likely to come back 'after hours'? Or is there some other reason for not wanting to upset him?
Nasty pretty well covered it off. I'm wanting a way to phrase it that means I loose the sale not the customer and the referal business.
Its no more or less than that

The very fact I'm posting on here I guess shows it has me stumped for an answer.

Just to give you a mental image of his riding -My 10 year old rides better than he did.

[Mom]

FROSTY, just tell him you won't sell him the bike because it is not appropriate for his skill and experience level. Explain that while you have no legal reason for not selling him the bike, your concience dictates that you dont as you would feel responsible should something happen to him.

Offer him a buy back option on the smaller bike, something along the lines of, you go off on this, keep it for 6 months and do a RRRS course or a rider skills course and get some experience under your belt. Bring the bike back to me in similar condition then you will take it back, less a reasonable allowance for wear and tear and use the money towards the purchase of another one. That is of course called a trade in, but you can couch it a bit differently.

You get a sale of the more suitable bike, he gets the message that you "care" about his welfare and he comes back to you to buy his bigger dream bike later on. He also tells all his mates you are a good guy. Win, win all round.

[LittleJohn]

Nasty pretty well covered it off. I'm wanting a way to phrase it that means I loose the sale not the customer and the referal business.
Its no more or less than that

The very fact I'm posting on here I guess shows it has me stumped for an answer.

Just to give you a mental image of his riding -My 10 year old rides better than he did.

Frosty,

Why don't you tell him that you have someone already lined up for the big bike and want to give them first choice. Then if he wants one of the others then sweet as. If he says about the other one to much, give me a ring and I will come pick it up, say I'm wanting it and then bring it back that night........

At least then you can say he cannot have the bike but can ave one of these other ones....

[MSTRS]

Just to give you a mental image of his riding -My 10 year old rides better than he did.

:eek: Best be trying to get him on a small dirt bike for off-road use only to start with.
Can you not explain how many friends and acquaintances you have buried as a result of them on bikes they couldn't handle? He doesn't need to know that is not necessarily the whole truth.
Once you have impressed upon him that your only concern is his welfare, half the job is done....

[LittleJohn]

:eek: Best be trying to get him on a small dirt bike for off-road use only to start with.
Can you not explain how many friends and acquaintances you have buried as a result of them on bikes they couldn't handle? He doesn't need to know that is not necessarily the whole truth.
Once you have impressed upon him that your only concern is his welfare, half the job is done....

If he is a young kid he will just think.... It wouldn't happen to me, I'm better than them......

Kids these days think they are bullit proof and better than anyone else.

[MSTRS]

If he is a young kid he will just think.... It wouldn't happen to me, I'm better than them......

Kids these days think they are bullit proof and better than anyone else.

True that...
Still gotta be the fence at the top of the cliff though.

[Finn]

Show me the money!

[3umph]

Good on you Frosty for your stand on this...

I too would not want to sell him a bike either... unfortunately depending on the sort of person he is it may not be hard not to piss him off...

Be honest and give him honest reasons why you are not going to sell it to him and why he should have the smaller cc bike... maybe offer him a good trade up offer when he has the relevant license...

He may go away pissed but may look back at a later date and think this bloke was really looking after me.... especially if he does buy a bigger bike from somewhere else and crashes it due to what you have said to him...

Good luck on how you tell him

[sinfull]

Ya already said ya wont sell it to him ?
Or is he coming back for it !
I'd be straight up and tell him he sucks big time and that your conscience wont allow ya to let him ride away on the higher powered sickle
Sweeten the deal by offereing (what nights do you run the free maint course ?), full workshop availibility on sat sundays (that still going there mate?) and a good buy back deal if the bike is still in one peice when he gets his full, if he took the learner !
Half the ppl he gives bad feedback too (if he were to) would side with ya when they think about it, the other half would grow up eventually !

[SPman]

If he is a young kid he will just think.... It wouldn't happen to me, I'm better than them......

Kids these days think they are bullit proof and better than anyone else.
These days ???????? :innocent:

[riffer]

These days ???????? :innocent:

Yeah I seem to recall being pretty stupid when young.

[Kemet]

How old is this 'kid'?
Car licence? Defensive driving?
As someone else said earlier, why the bigger bike?
Is the buy the small one now, big one later feasible in that you could promise the big one down the track...

Most importantly though... if the rest of us can wait to get our 'big' bikes why can't he. We've jbeen in his shoes at some point...

In regard to the age thing, if he's 25 or older, car licensed with a DD course under his belt, he only has to wait 9 months to go from getting his learner to full licence.

Experience-wise, the short courses for getting your full won't make him a good enough rider for a big bike even for track days. Experience comes with time spent on the road especially given the skill level you observed.

Be up-front with him. He won't be happy but he may appreciate it later after he's bought a big one off somebody else and crashes or buy the small one and has a near-miss that would have been a crash in the bigger one.

In my personal experience the second week after first taking my old FXR150 on my learners (4th week after buying as spent first two weeks learning how it felt, changing gears properly and anything else about handling the bike) I was at an intersection on a rainy evening heading home and a stupid wanker (who didn't stop after - probably cos he never noticed what he has done!!!) cut me off. I was turning right, him left, I had right of way but that meant shit to him. I was already half way through my turn when he cut through and my mistake was hitting the brakes straight away before righting my self. I didn't fall off but ended up having to lay the bike down in the middle of the intersection. He drove of on his merry way and bystanders helped me pick my bike up. Not a mistake I would repeat now that I have more experience.

that would be about 50c worth there I think...

[BMWST?]

Ya already said ya wont sell it to him ?
Or is he coming back for it !
I'd be straight up and tell him he sucks big time and that your conscience wont allow ya to let him ride away on the higher powered sickle
Sweeten the deal by offereing (what nights do you run the free maint course ?), full workshop availibility on sat sundays (that still going there mate?) and a good buy back deal if the bike is still in one peice when he gets his full, if he took the learner !
Half the ppl he gives bad feedback too (if he were to) would side with ya when they think about it, the other half would grow up eventually !

or help with enrolling/paying for a basic handling course

[tigertim20]

Frosty
what bike did you OFFER him, and what bike did he WANT? perhaps clarifying that will help quell some of the doubters.
I also think that you should tell him you saw him ride and dont think hes ready for the big bike yet, and that if he buys the smaller one, for XXX amount, you will gaurantee him a trade in of XX later when he IS ready for the bigger bike, provided he hasnt crached it.
If he cant see that youre trading with your conscience first and your pocket second after that, then fuck him, hes a dick!!!

[pritch]

On a slight tangent I know but...

If he takes the big bike, and assuming he has actually taken out insurance, what would be the likely position of the insurer when he prangs it?

If he isn't covered, for whatever reason, how does that leave you?

The dilemma could turn out to be financial rather than just moral

[FROSTY]

On a slight tangent I know but...

If he takes the big bike, and assuming he has actually taken out insurance, what would be the likely position of the insurer when he prangs it?

If he isn't covered, for whatever reason, how does that leave you?

The dilemma could turn out to be financial rather than just moral
Mate if he pays cash there is no financial comeback on me.
Bike wise -the one he wants is TRX850 and the bike he's legally allowed is either a 250 honda or 250 yamaha
The TRX is a bloody nice bike but V twin balls makes 180km/h come by fairly fast and blue spot calipers on the front so the brakes are a tadd er sharp.

[ducatilover]

Mate if he pays cash there is no financial comeback on me.
Bike wise -the one he wants is TRX850 and the bike he's legally allowed is either a 250 honda or 250 yamaha
The TRX is a bloody nice bike but V twin balls makes 180km/h come by fairly fast and blue spot calipers on the front so the brakes are a tadd er sharp.
the trx would kill him. simple. good on you for not selling it to him frosty, bling awarded :niceone:

[FROSTY]

Problem solved. Aparently the lure of the female prevailed.

[MSTRS]

You've turned pimp, and sold him a woman??

[HenryDorsetCase]

Problem solved. Aparently the lure of the female prevailed.

what, you showed him your tits?

[FROSTY]

nope He came back with GF.

[Starky307]

nope He came back with GF.

LMFAO, they do have some power over us.:laugh::laugh:

[toycollector10]

Nice work in declining him the large bike. You made the right choice. He'll be back though because I can see you have integrity and he will have sensed that also.

[hedcase07]

Congratulations frosty you have a spine....

If only i had tried to buy my first bike off you.

There is no way of sugar coating it for him, if he wants that bike then one way or another he will have that bike. It may prove to be a very costly lesson for him though...

As far as im concerned you are a champion.. Keep up the good work.

[MSTRS]

nope He came back with GF.

So he tried to substitute the 'cash deal' then? ;)
Don't blame you for being relieved. That sort of thing just isn't on. I mean, you don't know where she's been, for a start....

[FROSTY]

So he tried to substitute the 'cash deal' then? ;)
Don't blame you for being relieved. That sort of thing just isn't on. I mean, you don't know where she's been, for a start....
LOL no mate unfortunately Hes YDFUC and she had a very short skirt.
Aparently he would look much cooler in a 1600cc 2 door car.
The power of a pair of big er um--Ohh yea EYES

[MSTRS]

So you made a sale, didn't have to compromise your integrity AND got a perv opportunity...I'd say that was a big win. :niceone:

[FROSTY]

So you made a sale, didn't have to compromise your integrity AND got a perv opportunity...I'd say that was a big win. :niceone:
HMM yea I must say the young ladies "eyes" matched jorjas for size and um "pupil" dimensions

[AllanB]

Any pics of the GF?:innocent:

[MSTRS]

HMM yea I must say the young ladies "eyes" matched jorjas for size and um "pupil" dimensions

Careful, me old sprocket. You could get chained up if that little gem fell into the wrong hands.
If you see what I mean...
:lol:

[davereid]

Sell him a car, motorcycles are death traps regardless of cc rating.

[FROSTY]

Careful, me old sprocket. You could get chained up if that little gem fell into the wrong hands.
If you see what I mean...
:lol:
Nahh its all good -Im REALLY in Jorjas good books--check out the pictures of the finished Bike

[MSTRS]

Nahh its all good -Im REALLY in Jorjas good books--check out the pictures of the finished Bike

Where photos??
And we aren't the sharpest today...me old sprocket...are we??

[Boob Johnson]

Tell him the Dealers Code of Conduct forbids you from selling vehicles to people who don't have the licence for them.
+1 move the problem sideways. He can't be pissed at you for not selling it to him if its a legal issue. Depends on how you put it too him. Although this will back fire if he goes elsewhere & they sell it too him.

In saying that, I wouldn't freak out too much about it mate. If the young fella does get his hands on a big bike he will soon forget that you denied him. If he is half a human he will know why & respect you for it :niceone:

[FROSTY]

where photos??
And we aren't the sharpest today...me old sprocket...are we??
uhh shi#$#

[Mully]

At least you still have the TRX to play on.....

Yeah, and pics or the girlfriend didn't happen.....

[Rockbuddy]

believe it or not there isn't a law stopping him from buying the bike.
The second the wheels are on public land he's breaking the law though

exactly right. so if you dont sell him the bike he will just go to somewhere like red barrons and buy one off them and you lose out on a sale, but you should feel good because you didnt sell him the bike that might kill him, or not.

[McDuck]

I would be inclined to make him put 10,000kms on a little bike first. Did you get the sale of the car?

[Ixion]

Bah. Humbug. You do realise , don't you, that when this sort of thing happens , I lose out on a commission from Gene-O-Kleen ("Evolution you can see - keeping the gene pool clean since 1903"). I'm just a poor old man etc etc, I rely on those commissions.

Once upon a time, you could just have wandered by the local snake shop, and arranged for y' friendly local snake to be at the yard when the young 'un came by again. Just by way of reminder , like. Nowadays, i dare say the cops would tell you to piss off.

[FROSTY]

Bah. Humbug. You do realise , don't you, that when this sort of thing happens , I lose out on a commission from Gene-O-Kleen ("Evolution you can see - keeping the gene pool clean since 1903"). I'm just a poor old man etc etc, I rely on those commissions.
sorry ol son The thought did occur to me to for a nanosecond.
I thought about that nitrus gixxer thou to really do a good job

[scumdog]

Tell him "you obviously know nothing about riding, you've listened to nothing I said so go away, I don't need your death on my conscience"

In a nice way of course!:pinch:

[Shadows]

A.
Back to the shop and we yarn some more and the young chap hauls a wad of cash out of pocket. "Yep I want that one" pointing to a much bigger more powerfull bike.

Call the police, he's obviously a drug dealer.

[mujambee]

Next time it happens, just show him this very thread. If it doesn't convince him that you are honest, probably nothing can do.




No sorry mate I will NOT sell him the bike.
If he goes somewhere else I can't stop him but Im not selling him a big bike.

That may have gotten you a customer anyway. If I manage to find a living in Auckland, I know who I'm going to buy my bikes from ;).

[LBD]

Doing the right thing is pretty obvious, how you present the right thing to the young man involved is the only question.

I for one, would hold you/your dealership in higher esteem than if you sold an oversize bike to an inexperienced rider, who not only risked his own welfare, but that of others on the road as well.

To knowingly sell a grossly unsuitable bike to an inexperienced rider would also be a breach of "duty of care"

Thats my 2 cents worth....

[triple-bee]

What he said, u gotta be able to sleep at night fuck the money

[Kflasher]

You could ask him to stop smoking, drinking and check his overall health… all his organs should be in a reasonable state at his age.
All in all he would seam to be the next ‘temporary kiwi’, ‘donor’ or ‘statistic’ which ever way you look at it.

As mentioned previously “show him this thread” it could be the wake up call he really needs… my 2 cents.

[Maki]

Interesting thread. It's good to see that people in this country have morals. There seems to be a lack of morals and sensible rules in some other countries. The stories you hear from the USA....; Girl, barely 20, walks in to dealership and looks at bikes, thinks the 250s looks like toys and rides away on a Hayabusa. How is that for morals?

[Bass]

I have followed this thread with some interest.
Frosty, congratulations on your integrity. It appears to be an increasingly rare commodity.
I was amazed at the number of people who, especially early in this thread, suggested that you lie to the lad in some way. I understand that the proposed deceit was for his own good, but it was still lying.
I cannot understand how some could suggest this to you in response to a question where you were demonstrating your own personal integrity.
Perhaps I am a complete dinosaur, but I have been disturbed at the complete acceptance that deceit is just an ordinary part of life.

[Big Dave]

I have followed this thread with some interest.
Frosty, congratulations on your integrity. It appears to be an increasingly rare commodity.
I was amazed at the number of people who, especially early in this thread, suggested that you lie to the lad in some way. I understand that the proposed deceit was for his own good, but it was still lying.
I cannot understand how some could suggest this to you in response to a question where you were demonstrating your own personal integrity.
Perhaps I am a complete dinosaur, but I have been disturbed at the complete acceptance that deceit is just an ordinary part of life.

Or

Karma is a bitch.

[Bass]

Or

Karma is a bitch.

Dave,
I must also be pretty slow, because I can't work out whether you are attacking or supporting my point of view there.

[Forest]

Somebody told me a story like this recently.

Except in case he went ahead and booked the sale ... of a new Ducati 848 to a 21 year old with a learner license.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Somebody told me a story like this recently.

Except in case he went ahead and booked the sale ... of a new Ducati 848 to a 21 year old with a learner license.

Casey Stoner was (until recently) 21. Now 22 IIRC. He might not have a street motorbike licence. Though he would conceivably be not required to PURCHASE an 848

God, I'd LOVE an 848.

[Burtha]

Tell him you will only sell him that bike if he gives you a blowjob with a full swallow.

aaahhh - but what if he agrees - his delimna is still no better, just less tension ...
:buggerd:

[MarkH]

A youngish chap wanders into the shop looking at bikes. We have a bit of a yarn and he's got a learners licence. Ok conversation carrys on and I show him a couple of 250's . Things progress in a promising manner so away we go on a test ride. Clearly this chap is on a licence to learn. His ride skills are basicly non existent.
Back to the shop and we yarn some more and the young chap hauls a wad of cash out of pocket. "Yep I want that one" pointing to a much bigger more powerfull bike.

Heres the dillema.
How do I tell him he can't have the bike in a way thats gonna keep him happy? Or at least not pissed off with us?
Him buying that bike off me is not an option but I just can't figure out how to sugar the pill. Ive already told him about licence requirements etc.

What I really wanna say is "Go away, learn to ride propperly then come back for a grunty bike if you are still keen"

Diplomacy - the art of telling someone to fuck off in a way that has them looking forward to the trip.

What I would suggest (and I am presuming that the situation is bound to crop up again) is that you tell the young sack of testosterone that you can't sell him the bike because he doesn't have the necessary experience to handle it yet and you are not willing to have his death/maiming on your conscience. Tell him that you are happy to sell him a 250 and recommend training/mentor/RRRS course/etc. and will give him a good deal on a trade in when he is ready to move up to a bigger bike. No need to sugar coat anything, just tell him you wont sell him the bigger bike and tell him why. After all why should you suffer the guilt and sleepless nights with his death on your conscience?

[elle-f]

Yeah, a friend (biking) of mine turned up today on a beautiful looking R6 but he only has his learners and quite frankly, that bike is pretty powerful for him. I wanted to get into the whole "They shouldn't have sold it to you blah blah" but didn't because he wouldn't have listened anyhow. I just hope that he doesn't fall off whilst going too fast for himself.

[FROSTY]

Yeah, a friend (biking) of mine turned up today on a beautiful looking R6 but he only has his learners and quite frankly, that bike is pretty powerful for him. I wanted to get into the whole "They shouldn't have sold it to you blah blah" but didn't because he wouldn't have listened anyhow. I just hope that he doesn't fall off whilst going too fast for himself.
Hes not from auckland is he ?