Electric Bikes - Would you buy one?

[cs363]

I think the majority of us would reply in the negative on that question, at least in the first instance. BUT...what if it looked like this:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Mvhjidbvdzc/Sb8zqJ23OUI/AAAAAAAAN8E/5MHCD_SsTiY/s1600-h/evo+1.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Mvhjidbvdzc/Sb8zqr2vvEI/AAAAAAAAN8M/H-VsTym0pMM/s1600-h/evo+2.jpg

http://www.fasterandfaster.net/2009/03/ev-0-rr-sexing-up-battery-powered.html

Hmmm..... even though this has potential, I'm still struggling with the idea of a virtually silent bike - doesn't seem right somehow.

[Headbanger]

I think the majority of us would reply in the negative on that question, at least in the first instance. BUT...what if it looked like this:
.

I would gouge out both my eyes with a blunt toothpick.

I wouldn't want to be seen dead on one, In fact if I died and some bastard put my corpse on something that looked that shit I'd haunt the fucker to the grave and I'd curse his offspring for a thousand generations.

[cs363]

I would gouge out both my eyes with a blunt toothpick.

I wouldn't want to be seen dead on one, In fact if I died and some bastard put my corpse on something that looked that shit I'd haunt the fucker to the grave and I'd curse his offspring for a thousand generations.

So.....not keen then? :laugh:

[SARGE]

no

no

no

no

but feel free to go grab one .. tell your mates to go get one too ..

more dinosaur juice for me


I would gouge out both my eyes with a blunt toothpick.




thats dedication ..

im one ahead of ya ....

[cs363]

Personally speaking, I'm with you Sarge - I'm trying to use more than my fair share of dinosaur juice, I think of it as supporting science - helping accellerate the quest for alternative power sources for the youf of today....
It's the least I can do.

[The Lone Rider]

Where's the chrome!?

:(

[Slyer]

I would consider buying an small electric scooter, but not a bike.
Especially not one styled like a superbike...

[zzzbang]

Even if i could ignore the blender noise (which is impossible.. and a fake soundtrack is just retarded), ATLEAST give it decent suspension! What kind of motogp bike goes around looking like that?

Want to make it look fast? just add alot of carbon fibre!..... NOT

dont forget to charge your batteries the night before the motogp!

[SARGE]

dont forget to charge your batteries the night before the motogp!

maybe they can race in the Hyosung GP Class?

[Conquiztador]

Sadly one day there will be a lack of oil. But lets hope that by then we have learnt how to harvest the power from a small nuclear reactor so we can all blast around leaving traces of radiation in our path. It would also cut down on night time accidents as the road would be well lit up.

My kids have battery powered toys. That is where they should stay. In the toybox.

If we run out of oil and the radiation solution is not completed, then I will run my bikes on Finnish Vodka. Imagine at the checkpoint: "No constable, it is not I who smell of alcohol, it is my bike that is a heavy drinker"...

I will never own a batterybike. With a little bit of luck I be dead before they become compulsory anyhow.

[LBD]

Who watched the discovery channel programme on electric sports cars?...Those things hustle, with bulk torque from go....

And with the new breakthrough in very rapid charging...think minutes instead of o/night.....

Count me in. (If the price is right)

[James Deuce]

Nope. Not ever.

[discotex]

With the amount of people putting aftermarket pipes on to unleash the tone of their engines I can't see electric taking off.

I like the idea apart from the silence. Being able to hear the engine note to gauge power delivery is a vital to ride a 100HP+ bike at pace.

[Mystic13]

KTM are already going into mass production on electric off road bikes. Their electric off road bike has 25% more power than this fellow. In kids off road the electric Oset is winning competitions. To my way of thinking those kids will grow up with electric and the KTM would be normal for them.

The KTM is going to come in under 100kg. Riding a petrol bike in comparison will be like riding around with a 10 year old pillion on the back. I'm kind of thinking if the electric ends up being seriously competitive will racers still opt for petrol.

They do sound more like a bunch of sewing machines going past.

For some reason people who design electric vehicles both the cars and bikes are into technology and ugly. They usually produce the ugliest vehicles.

FIM has also now approved the first electric motorcycle race and it's at Isle of Man. So now we're going to see some interesting development.

www.gizmag.com/fim-endorses-ttxgp-the-worlds-first-clean-emissions-motorcycle-race/11239


Here's what they sound like. I struggle to imagine a rattle of 30 as they whoosh past. (Let's face it, they don't Zoom do they)




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[Slyer]

How much do they cost to maintain?
Do they break down at all?

[The Stranger]

I would gouge out both my eyes with a blunt toothpick.

I wouldn't want to be seen dead on one, In fact if I died and some bastard put my corpse on something that looked that shit I'd haunt the fucker to the grave and I'd curse his offspring for a thousand generations.

Even though there ar no less than TWO Rs?

[jim.cox]

Nope. Not ever.

I'd give one a try

In fact I've been wondering if one could build an electric bucket racer

[xwhatsit]

Quote from the article from one of the guys designing the bike:


‘I don’t look at a bike and get turned on or off by the measurement of g/km of carbon dioxide are emitted, I really don’t care. I love two-strokes for the way they only deliver power in a small powerband. Equally I love big inline-fours because of the ‘point and squirt, world goes backwards’ experience. I get excited by bikes; that’s my passion, so give me a bike. If that bike has a torque curve like a table top (as an electric motor will) then I’m interested in it irrelevant of whether it runs on fresh air or by burning endangered tree frogs from the Amazon…,’ he adds.

Take something like a Blackbird etc. -- biiiig sprots tourer. Almost dead silent anyway! Then a near-silent engine, monstrous torque at any RPM; assuming you could sort out the refuelling issue, you'd think it'd adapt quite well?

[imdying]

Yup, if it looked like a bike like that one does, then definitely.

[Burtha]

I wouldn't ever buy and electric bike because they are gutless.

[imdying]

I wouldn't ever buy and electric bike because they are gutless.Too much like a Buell then? :rolleyes:

Sorry to have stomp all over your statement, but that is the single most retarded thing in this thread. Unless you're one of those con artists psychic bitches who can allegedly predict the future?

Have a gander at the Killacycle... that'd fuck your day up sunshine :msn-wink:

[Jantar]

I voted NO to this poll. No way would I buy that bike. But I ceratinly would consider an electric bike for a commuter.

But something like this one may be worth looking at: http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_electric_motorcycle_gpr-s.php

[Burtha]

Too much like a Buell then? :rolleyes:


Oooooooo .... :girlfight:


Sorry to have stomp all over your statement, but that is the single most retarded thing in this thread. Unless you're one of those con artists psychic bitches who can allegedly predict the future?


How about an educated prediction based upon the given experience from electric scooters and electric cars?
Valid - I think SOOO :yes:

Anyways, I'm a psycho bitch - and its MRS to you ! :spanking:


Have a gander at the Killacycle... that'd fuck your day up sunshine :msn-wink:

Dis is sumfink I know nufink about ... link?

[imdying]

How about an educated prediction based upon the given experience from electric scooters and electric cars?
Valid - I think SOOO :yes:Educated? Unobservant would be more like it... it surely can't have missed your attention that every time we hear about yet another electric bike concept, they're getting bigger, faster, and potentially more nasty (all the torque all the time, yikes!)? What about batteries... every time we hear about those, they either blew up another cellphone, set fire to another laptop, or they've figured out how to charge them faster/pack more capacity into a smaller place.

Any experience you might think you have with electric vehicles is useless... that particular branch of the automotive industry hasn't even begun to step into high gear... what you see around now is definitely not what the designers have in mind for the future.


Dis is sumfink I know nufink about ... link?
Sure (http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=killacycle).

[Finn]

I wouldn't for the following reasons...

- Too expensive for what it is
- Too heavy to push around the Coro Loop when it runs out of charge
- Worse for the environment than modern petrol engines
- "Sorry can't make the ride today, forgot to put it on charge last night"
- "What, a 300k ride? My bike's range is only 70 k's"... And that's in the first year.
- "What, an $800 power bill"
- Our third world power grid couldn't handle electric vehicles
- The Green movement is bullshit
- I like my bike to make noise

[Burtha]

Educated? Unobservant would be more like it...

no unnecessary digs thank you.


it surely can't have missed your attention that every time we hear about yet another electric bike concept, they're getting bigger, faster, and potentially more nasty (all the torque all the time, yikes!)?


true - like everything else in research development - they have still a long way to go.


What about batteries...

they still suck as they still are unable to get batteries to retain a decent amount of charge. Trying to get a battery that has all 3 facets is damn near improbable ie; size, charge time + charge retention.


that particular branch of the automotive industry hasn't even begun to step into high gear...

urm, in fact, only recently there was a piece on an electric sports car - think it was the aussi car show, definately no top gear, that demonstrated the attainable speed of modern electric car.


what you see around now is definitely not what the designers have in mind for the future

of course not - as per research development again. but if it I was to opt for buying one now I would say no as I would consider it gutless in comparison to other options available esp for the $.

PS: I might annoy you, but I'm entitled to my opinion based on how I see things thanks.

[Horse]

I wouldn't for the following reasons...

I'll grant you the range and price issues, but if you really believe the rest you've been woefully misinformed I'm afraid.

And in terms of range & price, see you in 10 years, maybe less.

[imdying]

I wouldn't for the following reasons...

- Worse for the environment than modern petrol enginesHeh, of Finn, I never knew you cared... :rofl:


true - like everything else in research development - they have still a long way to go.And they're getting there rapidly...

they still suck as they still are unable to get batteries to retain a decent amount of charge. Trying to get a battery that has all 3 facets is damn near improbable ie; size, charge time + charge retention.They're barely even started, and they've started with 150 mph, 150 mile range, 100 foot pound of torque, and a 2 hour charge. (http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2009/02/04/worlds-fastest-production-electric-motorcycle-2010-mission-one-from-mission-motors/#more-4217) Too pricey for now, but then it is a first gen vehicle. Next...


but if it I was to opt for buying one now I would say no as I would consider it gutless in comparison to other options available esp for the $.Oh really? You'd consider it now? Sweet! That's all I wanted... it's a step up from 'wouldn't ever' :)


PS: I might annoy you, but I'm entitled to my opinion based on how I see things thanks.Only your closed mind annoyed me, you're lovely, now that you've opened it a little, I'm a happy chappy :yes:

[The Pastor]

If it was fun to ride, why not.

[imdying]

If it was fun to ride, why not.Bingo... horses (for example) suck arse in a number of respects (feed in, shit out, housing, transporting blah blah blah), but they're still fun to ride!

[The Pastor]

bingo... Horses (for example) suck arse in a number of respects (feed in, shit out, housing, transporting blah blah blah), but they're still fun to ride!
well the way you ride them is illegal.

[imdying]

:lol:

Fond memories of your sisters Shetland eh? :blip:

[Burtha]

neigh!

I know of something better I'd rather ride - doesn't take batteries either, just needs feeding 3 times a day and a quick SSS.

Hmmm - so much for being 'lovely' .... :devil2:

And I'll be as closed minded as much as I like ... although I'm not that good at it ie; it didn't last long! :doh:

hey, if they made it look like a gladius I'd buy one - NOT !!!

[MarkH]

Sure I'd buy an electric bike*, why not?




* on the condition that it performed well enough. They first need to sort out speed of recharging, range, power/torque, weight, size, reliability, etc.
But when well sorted, then I'm in!

[cs363]

I voted NO to this poll. No way would I buy that bike. But I ceratinly would consider an electric bike for a commuter.

But something like this one may be worth looking at: http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_electric_motorcycle_gpr-s.php


At first glance that doesn't look too bad, but then the more you look the more it's another 'nearly but not quite' effort and the price.....yikes US$8500, that's NZ$17000 give or take....think I'd want more than 19Hp for that much! :)

But, as many posters have mentioned, electric cars and bikes are progressing rapidly and no doubt something with more power and range is not far off. Seems to me that battery life is still the biggest issue, I mean cell phones and laptops have been around for years and they still can't make decent batteries for them!

I think that by the time electric vehicles are in widespread use, many of us will be using one anyway (mobility scooters anyone?? :laugh:) Not only that there is still potential for a lot of other alternative power sources and we're really only seeing the tip of the iceberg at present.

I'm glad the topic has generated some lively debate though, keep it coming readers... :)

[zzzbang]

Is electric really that much better though? Especially in new zealand which is nuclear power-less. Instead of burning petrol ourselves we pay the power company to pollute for us? new zealands barely green anyway.. they try to spin it in the media to look good in the worlds eyes(who dont even know where new zealand is - somewhere in texas?).. the green they see is the algea growing from all the sewage we dump in the oceans.

[MarkH]

At first glance that doesn't look too bad

I don't know, at first glance I saw that unleashing the 19HP and having a very mild amount of fun would drain the batteries in 35 miles. Still a way to go before it is worth having IMO

But I plan on still riding 30 years from now so I could easily be riding a 60+ HP electric bike capable of travelling 300+ kms on a charge and recharging in the time it takes me to eat lunch. I predict electric will get good, but it will probably take a few more years yet.

[James Deuce]

When you talk about electric vehicles, forget HP. They produce massive amounts of seamless torque. Electric race bikes will reinvent the 10m high, 100m long highside, because once they start matching current HP levels the amount of torque produced will be phenomenal.

HP will be replaced by wattage as a comparative output figure and torque will become the most important measure of outright performance.

[Metalor]

As soon as electric bikes come on the market and are readily accessible I will ride the fuck out of one!!

Who the hell is talking about "gutless" or "no power"...... you have INSTANT torque!! No power bands, just instant power. They'll be WAAAAAAAY more efficient (I think combustion engines are MAXIMUM something like 14% efficient or some small amount like that, forgive me if I'm wrong).

Batteries are getting better and better REALLY quickly and solar panels are now a phenomenal 99% efficient in gethering energy from the sun. THAT is HUGE!

So yea, electric everything will be the way to go.

[Metalor]

Here it is, check it out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZfueVHVnkI

[Metalor]

neigh!

I know of something better I'd rather ride - doesn't take batteries either, just needs feeding 3 times a day and a quick SSS.



Wow, I hadn't realised they'd gotten rid of the D-size batteries and opted for petrol powered pleasure!


:laugh:

[James Deuce]

As soon as electric bikes come on the market and are readily accessible I will ride the fuck out of one!!



I'd rather ride the bus and read a book.

[Mystic13]

here's a picture and article on one of the race bike designs and I'm not sure if it's entered at the Isle of Man TTxGP. This has changed my whole view on the things. It'll be cool to see this race.

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2009/03/09/ev-0-rr-ttxgp-zero-carbon-fuel-gp-motorcycle/

and the TTXGP site.

http://www.ttxgp.com/

[dpex]

I think the majority of us would reply in the negative on that question, at least in the first instance. BUT...what if it looked like this:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Mvhjidbvdzc/Sb8zqJ23OUI/AAAAAAAAN8E/5MHCD_SsTiY/s1600-h/evo+1.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Mvhjidbvdzc/Sb8zqr2vvEI/AAAAAAAAN8M/H-VsTym0pMM/s1600-h/evo+2.jpg

http://www.fasterandfaster.net/2009/03/ev-0-rr-sexing-up-battery-powered.html

Hmmm..... even though this has potential, I'm still struggling with the idea of a virtually silent bike - doesn't seem right somehow.


Will they be supplying real big speakers and an endless spool tape with a selection of exhaust notes?

I don't ride a bike because it's cheaper than a car, or less pollutive. I ride cos I'm addicted to the throb in my nuts, especially when I overcook a corner. :--))

[McWild]

As they say in every "first big bike" thread...

I'd really have to go test riding first. The lack of sound is really unappealing to me at the moment, but who really knows? It could be exhilarating to go from 0-100 in less than 4 seconds without feeling anything else change in the world around you.

The point is moot til they're available for realistic purchasing.

[peasea]

When you talk about electric vehicles, forget HP. They produce massive amounts of seamless torque. Electric race bikes will reinvent the 10m high, 100m long highside, because once they start matching current HP levels the amount of torque produced will be phenomenal.

HP will be replaced by wattage as a comparative output figure and torque will become the most important measure of outright performance.

Scene at local cafe`:

"How many watts ya runnin?"
"Wire you asking me that? Go ohm."
"No need to blow a fuse, what did the dealer charge?"
"It cost me an armature and a leg"
"It's the current model then?"
"Sure is, I get amp'd on it"

....and so on.

[Blackshear]

Function over form.
Endless torque for me!
But the lack of soundtrack is bad :pinch:

[Ocean1]

torque will become the most important measure of outright performance.

It always has been. :Pokey:

[James Deuce]

It always has been. :Pokey:

Only to people with at least a third of a brain.

[cerberus]

Why do people always bash electric? Sure the batteries suck but they're getting there. Apart from that and possibly the noise, or lack of, they kick ass.

You can't really call them gutless. Killacycle (http://www.killacycle.com), as previously mentioned, is an example of what can be done. How many of your bikes can do 0-100kmph in less than a second, and finish a 1/4 mile doing 280kmph?

The near zero maintenance is pretty sweet as well.

Once the price is down and the designers stop tying to make them look 'futuristic' I'll buy one.

[zzzbang]

Why do people always bash electric?

Because the idea of plugging your bike into the wall socket is just so unappealing... and to me engine noise is a big part of motorcycling(no i dont like riding without the baffles), oil, grease, its just one awesome package. And what if you forget to plug your hairdryer into the wall the night before.. then you cant ride the next day, also, what if you want to go touring and youre constantly limited by range- petrol you just pour in as much as you can afford to and keep going as long as you want, it would be the most annoying thing ever.. just take a bicycle.

[James Deuce]

Why do people always bash electric? Sure the batteries suck but they're getting there. Apart from that and possibly the noise, or lack of, they kick ass.

You can't really call them gutless. Killacycle (http://www.killacycle.com), as previously mentioned, is an example of what can be done. How many of your bikes can do 0-100kmph in less than a second, and finish a 1/4 mile doing 280kmph?

The near zero maintenance is pretty sweet as well.

Once the price is down and the designers stop tying to make them look 'futuristic' I'll buy one.

I'm not bashing them. They simply don't appeal. I would seriously rather ride the bus. The simple acts of coercing a motorcycle with a gearbox to perform my bidding feels like a constant gentle drum solo. It's art.

A twist and go electric rocket is just a fast scooter.

The thing that really gets my goat is constant bleating about electric vehicles being "Green". They're not. It's simply pushing the pollution up the chain and battery technology is not the way to go. Vehicles need to be able to carry their own fuel with them. To my way of thinking, a vehicle that needs recharging is as much of a liability as an early 20th century IC engine with a total loss lubrication system and a hand pump to keep the oil flowing.

NZ's electricity grid would probably require significant updates if we were to start using electric vehicles in significant numbers and everyone knows that large Infrastructure projects and New Zealand go together like melted cheese and toothpaste. No one in NZ wants to pay for something they personally won;t see any benefit out of.

Battery electric and Hybrid technologies are dead ends. We've had Prius' as taxis in Wellington for a while now. One thing I've noticed with them is that they are all showing signs of significant battery degradation after 18 months of hard city use. I rode in one from one side of town to the other and the petrol engine was on all the time. It never went to battery and it didn't turn the petrol engine off at a stop. The batteries were rooted.

[Kittyhawk]

Already got one ....(its dads)

Overnight charge, rides up to 60-70km/hr get about 60kms in distance, Silent and its great to get around town.

As soon as you open the throttle up its gone....does have more kick than one expects for a little electric motor. .:scooter:

For an economical commuter I'd reccomend it....however it will never replace real bikes!

[Mystic13]

For an economical commuter I'd reccomend it....however it will never replace real bikes!

And yet you know in years to come they'll look back on the age of the petrol engine as we look back on steam.

To suggest change will never happen and what we have now will not be lost is to deny history.

It seems to me the one constant is change.

With time you would have to expect electric or any other refuelling stop would have to be as readily available as a gas stop now. I agree that electric vehicles aren't that green. Let's face it where are all the batteries going to go when they die. Lastly, isn't a current diesel Passat more economical than a Prius. But that's a comparison of the most refined old technology against the "in development" new technology.

I think it's fair to say this generation (and the last) have pillaged the planet and basically spent our kids inheritance on ourselves. We either change and make amends or they pay big time.

[Mystic13]

And now the first off road race is announced for electric bikes. Again the KTM going into mass production has 25% more power than this bike in the video below.

The story

http://www.gizmag.com/zero-motorcycles-24-hour-electric-endurance-race/11273/

The last off road bike I posted up was the Quanta, this one is the Zero X.

It seems KTM not only made the right choice to go mass produced but they've stolen a huge jump on their competitors.

It's highly likely that these are going to be winners sooner than later. There was an article recently where a local mag (pg 78 March Motorcycle Trader) tested a KTM125 2 stroke here in NZ and because it was small and nippy it was getting around the track close on as quickly as a race worked WR450F. And quicker than the KTM530. The electric bike going into mass production is looking like it will be 8-10kg's lighter, with 29hp instead of 35hp. But it'll have one big fat power band.

There seems to be no question that these bikes are going to kick ass. And you won't even know when your competition is sneaking up behind you.

As electric motor and battery technology gets better you'll have no problems upgrading. It looks like these electric bikes are going to fly.


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[LBD]

Only to people with at least a third of a brain.

1/3 rd brain but producing 3 x the talk.......um sorry that should be torque.

4 pages is this thread, P1, mostly nay sayers...P2 mostly no, a couple of may and a couple of yes....p3 some no, some may, and some yes. P4 most may or yes with lots of positives...that says to me that the people who take the time to consider things a little, tend to think positive about electric vehicals, where as the early posters...... :shutup:

[Mystic13]

1/3 rd brain but producing 3 x the talk.......um sorry that should be torque.

4 pages is this thread, P1, mostly nay sayers...P2 mostly no, a couple of may and a couple of yes....p3 some no, some may, and some yes. P4 most may or yes with lots of positives...that says to me that the people who take the time to consider things a little, tend to think positive about electric vehicals, where as the early posters...... :shutup:

Or it could be that the the early posting was views based on limited info and ugly bikes. As the info has built, and good looking bikes have popped up, then bikes that kick ass, then sanctioned races etc Now people have started to get a bigger and better picture of where it's at. A new poll would be interesting.

Let's face it this is leading edge, and not mainstream media stuff. Although if you talk to Big Dave nicely he may do a story. At present it's possible that you could see electrics arrive, blitz the competition and get banned from combustion engine races.

KTM has been doing the field research for a few years. I wonder how long it'll take for the rest to catch up?

As riders are we more passionate about the sound of the engine or the feeling we get from riding. If you had to pick one....

Our whole motorcycle experience has been built around both, and many other sensations like smell, heat, vibration and they're all linked to the rush and being at one we get from riding. Riding electric will have a new smell, new vibes and new sounds and they'll all build on what I consider is the key experience and that is riding.

Kids coming through will go electric because;

- no hot motors
- no kick starting
- no maintenance
- just turn and you're off

For them them the heat, smell, heavy maintenance and unreliability won't be missed. As they progress through we'll seem like people who long for bikes of a bygone era.

I'd bet that electric will come quicker than many would think in the off-road scene.

When you think about it there's something to be said for electric.

[Kittyhawk]

Electric motors/vehicles have been around since the start of 1900s Maybe it didnt take off as much as expected over the last century but people have always used them.

My uncle came to visit and when dad showed him the electric scooter he fobbed it off and laughed hard assuming it was going to run like a mobile electric scooter at 6km/hr. He was wrong and ended up sliding it out on the grass!

His opinion quickly changed after he realised the power it did have. If one can design a sports bike with the same power and speed but using an electric brushless motor I'd at least give it a test ride then make up my mind after. But in order to say electric bikes arent the best, you need to test ride one then draw your own conclusion.

As for the "green" image, anything that is produced by man will result in some form of pollution. May be less pollution produced as there is no exhaust system but disposal of batteries there is the pollution factor.

The best thing I like about the electric scooter is that you just turn the key and go there is no warming up the bike, sneak up behind people on the footpath as you ride on the road toot the horn and watch them jump! :whistle:

[Ocean1]

Only to people with at least a third of a brain.

When you see me with a 600 you can assume the Alzheimers has kicked in…

[Mystic13]

So how popular would the electric bikes be we all asked....

Well, Zero, have sold all their stock and much quicker than they thought so clearly demand is there for electric motorcycles.

They have now produced a motard that they say is comparable to the DRZ400

http://www.gizmag.com/zero-s-motorcycles-supermoto-supermotard-electric/11423/

[James Deuce]

1/3 rd brain but producing 3 x the talk.......um sorry that should be torque.

4 pages is this thread, P1, mostly nay sayers...P2 mostly no, a couple of may and a couple of yes....p3 some no, some may, and some yes. P4 most may or yes with lots of positives...that says to me that the people who take the time to consider things a little, tend to think positive about electric vehicals, where as the early posters...... :shutup:
I'm allowed to say they don't appeal, because they don't. People are also allowed to have other opinions. From my perspective they are less green, have less range, and no aural connecting element, so I'm not interested.

You can call me stupid if you want, but electric vehicles are not, and never will be a replacement for IC powered vehicled, simply because they have lengthy recharge periods and for me (note that) no emotional appeal at all. I rather spend the time on public transport reading a book.

[dipshit]

You can call me stupid if you want, but electric vehicles are not, and never will be a replacement for IC powered vehicled, simply because they have lengthy recharge periods and for me (note that) no emotional appeal at all. I rather spend the time on public transport reading a book.

Shortsighted people also said that these newfangled automobiles will never be a mainstream replacement for horse-drawn carriages.

And the US military once thought that the new emerging field of aviation would have no useful benefits to them.

[Pixie]

I'm allowed to say they don't appeal, because they don't. People are also allowed to have other opinions. From my perspective they are less green, have less range, and no aural connecting element, so I'm not interested.

You can call me stupid if you want, but electric vehicles are not, and never will be a replacement for IC powered vehicled, simply because they have lengthy recharge periods and for me (note that) no emotional appeal at all. I rather spend the time on public transport reading a book.

Ultracapacitors will recharge in the time it takes to fill a vehicle's tank

[robo555]

Not immediately. But once they get the charging time and range sorted out, the instant power seems quite appealing, and being quiet is not a bad thing either.

[robo555]

Ultracapacitors will recharge in the time it takes to fill a vehicle's tank

Imagine not having to wait hours for your laptop or cellphone to charge up.

[insane1]

try the vextrix bfore you say no cant go to far 100km bfore recharge but instant grunt.

[Mikkel]

It is true that there are issues in regards to range and re-"fuelling" - hydrogen fuel cells goes a long way to sort out the latter of the problems and there's currently being invested a lot of money on research into hydrogen storage to solve the former for hydrogen powered transportation.

Battery powered electrical vehicles are very viable for around the town transportation where you can just plug it into the grid whenever you park up and you aren't likely to do 200 km in one leg of your journey.

From a performance perspective electrical motors are a dream. All of the finicky electronics that goes towards traction control, fuel-efficiency and power will be much more efficient and are much easier to implement on an electric motor. As has been said, electric motors makes maximum torque from 0 RPM upwards are lighter and requires less maintenance. You shouldn't even need a gearbox...
Too easy you say? Well, maybe - on the other hand hasn't the development of IC powered vehicles been about making them more and more efficient, faster, better and yet easier to operate?

If you miss the soundtrack (and I'm sure most of us will) I guess you can just stick a couple of pieces of cardboard into the spokes like we did with our bicycles in days of yore. Or get an MP3 player. Or just enjoy the sound of the wind... On the other hand, some electric motors sounds quite cool - in a turbine kind of way - as they spool up past 30,000 RPM.

Still, I very much hope that we won't run out of baby velociraptor oil before I feel ready to retire. However, I wouldn't mind having both a cool electric and an awesome petrol motorbike in my garage.

[James Deuce]

It is true that there are issues in regards to range and re-"fuelling" - hydrogen fuel cells goes a long way to sort out the latter of the problems and there's currently being invested a lot of money on research into hydrogen storage to solve the former for hydrogen powered transportation.


Hydrogen isn't an energy source, it's an energy carrier. Current refining technology means more energy is spent extracting hydrogen from whatever it is bonded to and the process creates more CO2 than burning petrochemicals. Storage is the least of our problems.

[Mikkel]

Hydrogen isn't an energy source, it's an energy carrier. Current refining technology means more energy is spent extracting hydrogen from whatever it is bonded to and the process creates more CO2 than burning petrochemicals. Storage is the least of our problems.

The first part is nitpicking. The energy source of your motorcycle is the fuel, i.e. the petrol in the tank. You still have to extract and refine this before your bike will run (well) on it.

Same goes for hydrogen, with the notable difference of course, that extracting the hydrogen (from water) uses more energy than we get in return by burning it. If it wasn't so we'd have found a way around the 1st law of thermodynamics (or at the very least managed to realise a loss-free system).
Nevertheless, hydrogen is a viable fuel - but storing hydrogen in a safe and compact manner is still a considerable obstacle in utilising it as a fuel.
Bear in mind that burning hydrogen only emits water and that it is the universe's most plentiful element. If solar-powered hydrogen extraction is realised it is a very viable energy source.

In Europe there is at the present time several hydrogen fuel stations along the main routes of the European motor-highway network.

[James Deuce]

The first part is nitpicking. The energy source of your motorcycle is the fuel, i.e. the petrol in the tank. You still have to extract and refine this before your bike will run (well) on it.

Same goes for hydrogen, with the notable difference of course, that extracting the hydrogen (from water) uses more energy than we get in return by burning it. If it wasn't so we'd have found a way around the 1st law of thermodynamics (or at the very least managed to realise a loss-free system).
Nevertheless, hydrogen is a viable fuel - but storing hydrogen in a safe and compact manner is still a considerable obstacle in utilising it as a fuel.
Bear in mind that burning hydrogen only emits water and that it is the universe's most plentiful element. If solar-powered hydrogen extraction is realised it is a very viable energy source.

In Europe there is at the present time several hydrogen fuel stations along the main routes of the European motor-highway network.

You've still quietly stepped past the fact that fuel Hydrogen is currently refined from hydrocarbons, not water. It may produce water when used as a fuel but the refining process creates more CO2 per km travelled than low octane petrol.

[robo555]

From a performance perspective electrical motors are a dream. All of the finicky electronics that goes towards traction control, fuel-efficiency and power will be much more efficient and are much easier to implement on an electric motor. As has been said, electric motors makes maximum torque from 0 RPM upwards are lighter and requires less maintenance. You shouldn't even need a gearbox...

Lighter, simpler, less maintenance, instant power engine. The power source maybe up for debate, but there's little doubt electric motor > combustion engine.

[Pwalo]

The problem is still the same. Petroleum is still the most efficient way to store energy for a motor vehicle. It's easy to carry and to convert into energy (and heat).

At this stage it is still more economical to use oil. We're not running out (or at least it can't be proven so), and the other technologies aren't robust enough to support mass use, yet.

I work in the Electricity industry and believe me it'd be great if people were reliant upon us for motor vehicle energy.

[motorbyclist]

right i'm a bit late but here goe:

what is the biggest problem faced by motorsport organisers today? Noise (and then green retards). Electric solves that, but does still give some noise to tell you how fast she's revving.

what is the biggest pollution source in city air? combustion engines.

what is often a significant and in many cases unneccessary source of noise in a city? combustion engines.

what is often a huge expense due to a mechanical failure of any one of MANY moving parts operating at high temperature? combustion engines.

how much money does our nation lose annually to vehicles burning petrol at idle on downhills, traffic lights, roadworks and traffic jams? shitloads; all entrely avoidable and partly negatable with electric vehicles and regenerative braking

ever tried to yell at that wanker cyclist/pedestrian/cager/bus driver/riding buddy something important but not been able to shout over his engine? personally I'd love to be able to audibly hurl abuse at people (friends or otherwise)

yes i'm talking all modes of transport, but i think electric is a smart move, oil shortage or not, carbon warming or otherwise.

sure, a lot of this applies more to overseas cities than here at home, but NZ is such a small portion of the market what we think and do means fuck all in the grand scheme of things.



furthermore, who said we needed to run on traditional chemical batteries?
to be fair, batteries will be fine for any city commuter, but are no good for a coro loop.
meanwhile, hydrogen fuel cells, while ultimately less efficient, dont die after 15000 cycles (the going rate of recent lithium) and can be filled up at a servo station. sure it's fucking dangerous stuff due to the pressure alone, but so is LPG or petrol which imho is much easier to be an idiot with and spill everywhere.

Then again, i hear the mazda rotary engines are perfectly set up to run on hydrogen fuel with only minor modifications to the injector and fuelling side of things; perhaps the future of motorsport as we know it is the hydrogen powered rotary?

If you ask me, electric IS the way of the future whether we like it or not. I'd be willing to start a career in it if NZ wasn't so crippling in that respect.

i mean, chinese scroters have taken hold like gorse in my neighbour's back paddock despite that they only last 300Km before breaking and being due for replacement!


petrol may still be dirt cheap to pull out of the ground compared to running a windfarm on a calm day, but i do not look forward to paying more than $2.20 a litre again to fund some middle eastern country to fight another middle eastern (or north american) country. fucking cunts at opec reduced the supply oil after it crashed to try to increase the price so as to maintain their bloated incomes, so i say "fuck 'em"




*begins picking on posts - read before you bleat*



My kids have battery powered toys. That is where they should stay. In the toybox.

care to explain why?


How much do they cost to maintain?
Do they break down at all?

well given they still use the same chassis and brakes, the (brushless) motors themselves have only one moving part operating at a temperature close to ambient, compared to atleast 50 parts in a modern four stroke IC some of which are hot enough to begin softening plus the required gearbox

and electric motors aren't affected too much by temperature, fuel quality, carby/injector issues....


Is electric really that much better though? Especially in new zealand which is nuclear power-less. Instead of burning petrol ourselves we pay the power company to pollute for us? .

to burn COAL to charge a lead acid battery (shit efficiency compared to lithium) is cleaner than petrol

plus all those poisonous nitrous oxides and carbon monoxides (and the rest) are all located at the plant, not in the cities.

then of course is NZ's decent go at uning clean energy sources...


it's the hippies that really ruin it, and the retards who think an electric vehicle has to look any different from a petrol one.


When you talk about electric vehicles, forget HP. They produce massive amounts of seamless torque. Electric race bikes will reinvent the 10m high, 100m long highside, because once they start matching current HP levels the amount of torque produced will be phenomenal.

HP will be replaced by wattage as a comparative output figure and torque will become the most important measure of outright performance.

some notes of interest:
combustion power rating is a PEAK output, attained only under certain conditions at a relatively innaccessible part of teh rev range,
whereas the electric power rating is a continuous load rating which is should have over most of it's engine speed range - ie they can always do more provided the wiring can handle the extra current (which means heat), and will always produce max power




Who the hell is talking about "gutless" or "no power"...... you have INSTANT torque!! No power bands, just instant power. They'll be WAAAAAAAY more efficient (I think combustion engines are MAXIMUM something like 14% efficient or some small amount like that, forgive me if I'm wrong).

Batteries are getting better and better REALLY quickly and solar panels are now a phenomenal 99% efficient in gethering energy from the sun. THAT is HUGE!

So yea, electric everything will be the way to go.

the maximum theoretical efficiency from an ideal four stroke stroke is 35%, and we IIRC yet to hit 20% in practice.
BUT, to actually extract oil and refine it requires much less energy than what is actually stored in the final product;)

electric is usually upwards of 90% efficient,
BUT the batteries are a weak link, along with power transmission to your home

in NZ a solar panel isn't going to ever see more than 700 watts per square metre. at noon. dead end for vehicles sorry.



The thing that really gets my goat is constant bleating about electric vehicles being "Green". They're not. It's simply pushing the pollution up the chain and battery technology is not the way to go. Vehicles need to be able to carry their own fuel with them. To my way of thinking, a vehicle that needs recharging is as much of a liability as an early 20th century IC engine with a total loss lubrication system and a hand pump to keep the oil flowing.


who gives a shit if it's green. they're quiet and don't belch out black (or blue) smoke.

buses are also meant to be green yet one of my biggest personal gripes with buses is how they emit 100dB as they go past while belching out black clouds of toxic fucking smoke. the silent buses are a godsend into auckland city - just pedestrians might want to actually start to look before crossing the road.

[Laxi]

Sadly one day there will be a lack of oil. But lets hope that by then we have learnt how to harvest the power from a small nuclear reactor so we can all blast around leaving traces of radiation in our path. .

or anti-matter so we can just wipe the world out in 1 go:blip:

Too much like a Buell then? :rolleyes::

ouch! nasty... but true

[jonbuoy]

When they start out performing combustion engines - sure. Electric motors have the potential to outperform a petrol engine in every way. Imagine being able to roll on the throttle from a standing start to 300km/h plus without changing gear in a blurr of completely linear power. Problem is always going to be storing the power.

[Stromble]

With the amount of people putting aftermarket pipes on to unleash the tone of their engines I can't see electric taking off.

I like the idea apart from the silence. Being able to hear the engine note to gauge power delivery is a vital to ride a 100HP+ bike at pace.

Surely the bike has sub woofer built in and a console allowing you to pick your own exhaust sound ...

[s_devo]

In less than a week (June 12), the world will witness the FIRST clean emissions Grand Prix. Known as the TTX GP:
http://www.gizmag.com/electric-dreams--first-ride-impressions-of-the-ttx01-electric-superbike/11844/

Awesome - I wonder where we can watch it?

Anyone had a crack at creating an EV bike?

All good!

[Supertwin Don]

If you are looking for the electric bike race - Isle Of Man - the TTXGP - is to be run on Friday 12 June
Any of the IoM websites should have links on

My son is over there with the Kingston University team - although he is running an electric drag race bike at the Ramsey Sprint on Tuesday 9th - check out "Proud Daddy" on the Drag race forum

[bogan]

i shall be watching the isle of man with intrest, if i can find a source that is, dont know if its being televised. But watching this will show exactly where electric bike tech is up to these days.

From a performance point of view, by comparing track times of the ttxgp bike with those of previous petrol race bikes we should be able to figure out just how many years behind petrol the electrics are.

With regards to range and charge times, electric vehicles a still a new thing, and with the popularity of them now, there will be far more money spend developing batteries, supercaps etc, hell we may eventually get a room temp superconductor to store the power!

Pollutionwise, electric is far better, efficiency of fossil fuel burning power stations is far greater than that of cars, efficiency from mains elec to bike power is around 75% conservatively. And fossil fuel powerstations are a minority here in NZ, and will become one elsewhere in the world. Sure it creates more drain on the electricity infrastructure, but shit aint free... well cept for geothermal.... hydroelectric.... wind...... solar...... tidal.... and fossil fuels, but theyre wrecking up the place so dont really count.

[Zuki lover]

Real motorbikes aren't electric. Makes it sound like a kitchen appliance:argh:

[Pixie]

I don't know, at first glance I saw that unleashing the 19HP and having a very mild amount of fun would drain the batteries in 35 miles. Still a way to go before it is worth having IMO

But I plan on still riding 30 years from now so I could easily be riding a 60+ HP electric bike capable of travelling 300+ kms on a charge and recharging in the time it takes me to eat lunch. I predict electric will get good, but it will probably take a few more years yet.

How about charging in the time it takes to fill a gas tank:

http://www.eestorbatteries.com/

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2007/09/supercapacitor-battery-could-lead-to-instant-charging-long-charge-life.ars


The future is in supercapacitors,not chemical batteries.

[James Deuce]

i shall be watching the isle of man with intrest, if i can find a source that is, dont know if its being televised. But watching this will show exactly where electric bike tech is up to these days.



Current results indicate parity with 1953.

[bogan]

Current results indicate parity with 1953.

ah yup, few years of development required then!! can you post a link to the race time history for the track?

[James Deuce]

http://www.iomtt.com/TT-Database.aspx

The fastest electric machine would have been in the top 10 in 1953

http://www.iomtt.com/TT-Database/Events.aspx?meet_code=TT53%20%20&era=3

http://www.iomtt.com/News/2009/06/09/The-era-of-electric-motorcycle-racing-arrives-at-the-TT.aspx

84.81mph average in practice.

They'll probably be in to the 1970s era laptimes next year. I don't think the chassis is the issue for most of them, simply that they are learning about energy usage. The might even improve over the race.

[MarkH]

How about charging in the time it takes to fill a gas tank: The future is in supercapacitors,not chemical batteries.

That may well be true, or it may not. Regardless my prediction is that electric will get very good eventually. Whether it is supercapacitors, LiMn Batteries or something else is not important - what matters is power, range & charge time. Once electric can provide a truly good performance on a real world motorcycle then we can decide if we would like to buy that motorcycle or not. Currently it is all just speculation.

[Skyryder]

I don't see them taking off for some time but there will be a 'generation' new to biking who one day will ride electric bikes. They will start off with them and ride nothing else.

Probably the children of some on here.


Skyryder

[bogan]

http://www.iomtt.com/TT-Database.aspx

The fastest electric machine would have been in the top 10 in 1953

http://www.iomtt.com/TT-Database/Events.aspx?meet_code=TT53%20%20&era=3

http://www.iomtt.com/News/2009/06/09/The-era-of-electric-motorcycle-racing-arrives-at-the-TT.aspx

84.81mph average in practice.

They'll probably be in to the 1970s era laptimes next year. I don't think the chassis is the issue for most of them, simply that they are learning about energy usage. The might even improve over the race.

thanks for the links. I agree chassis is definetly not the issue here, as chassis developement for ice bikes works for ebs as well. Simply put its power density, one of ttxgp bikes (i forget which one) is using 100kg of batteries, which contains an equivalent useable power to that in 3.3L of fuel.

[motorbyclist]

http://www.zenncars.com/media/documents/Reuters3.pdf

looks like supercaps are the way to go

though THIS annoys me in an anti-competitive/monopolising business practice sort of way:
Zenn also holds worldwide exclusive rights to the battery system in vehicles
under 1,400 kg (3,086 lbs).