TV1 - Close Up @ 7.00pm - Returning riders causing accidents (20 March)

[Pumba]

Saw it on the advert for tonights Close Up programme on TV1 about returning rider buying big bikes and crashing.

Might be worth a watch for those that are interested.

[vifferman]

I think I might give it a miss - those sort of items are usually badly researched and presented, sensational, and piss me off.

[nadroj]

I think you will find it's on at 7:00Pm

[Virago]

I think you will find it's on at 7:00Pm

Fixeded...

[Katman]

I think I might give it a miss - those sort of items are usually badly researched and presented, sensational, and piss me off.

That might be so but it may well provide some insight into how we're perceived by the public.

[Drogen Omen]

That might be so but it may well provide some insight into how we're perceived by the public.

Don't you mean what bullshit all about the ratings story Close Up will chop and piece together...?

Close Up and Cambell Live are both shit and wouldn't watch anything they show... from personal experience they only show the bad side to build ratings... never the actual truth... they don't care about the truth...

[madbikeboy]

Don't you mean what bullshit all about the ratings story Close Up will chop and piece together...?

Close Up and Cambell Live are both shit and wouldn't watch anything they show... from personal experience they only show the bad side to build ratings... never the actual truth... they don't care about the truth...

You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom.

You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.

We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

[yod]

The particular delivery will be interesting but I don't think that can be attributed to 'public perception', I would have thought it more related to the contracted staff involved in producing the piece for TVNZ

[Pumba]

I think you will find it's on at 7:00Pm

:doh:


Fixeded...

Thanks.

Hey im not saying it is going to be good, but if you dont watch it you have no ability to pass judgement.

[CookMySock]

[...] if you dont watch it you have no ability to pass judgement.Gak, thats not going to be a new KB rule is it? Passing judgement is 50% of the content of KB!

Hehe, I like this "public perception" thing. I think its funny. Especially the bit where it is suggested that a positive public impression is imperative, yet the same person behaves rather um, badly, in, er, public. :first:

Steve

[MarkH]

I should watch that program to give me something to bitch about on the internet, but I probably wont bother.

[vgcspares]

You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom.

You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.

We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!


of course the man you quoteth was a little mad too wasn't he ?

[The Stranger]

Hehe, I like this "public perception" thing. I think its funny.


Funny that.

You didn't like the way the public perceived you or think it was very funny.

[madbikeboy]

of course the man you quoteth was a little mad too wasn't he ?

Mad in all senses.

[skidMark]

You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom.

You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.

We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!


Bloodey hell, that is presidential speech quality.

[mikeey01]

I'll watch it, even if for a laugh. Who know there may be some good in it.
If it prevents a death, then it's well worth it!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Have just been in here to have a chat with me. I fucking hate having a camera jammed in my face when talking!

I can talk shit for hours to anyone (and often do)...but add a camera to the mix and I hate it!:baby:

[Maha]

Bloodey hell, that is presidential speech quality.

You haven't seen the movie then??

[Maha]

Have just been in here to have a chat with me. I fucking hate having a camera jammed in my face when talking!

I can talk shit for hours to anyone (and often do)...but add a camera to the mix and I hate it!:baby:

In that case Pete, I will certainly be watching it...:msn-wink:

I suppose the 'issue' can not be totally talked out in 10 mins, you did tell them that Kiwibikers know everything right?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Don't you mean what bullshit all about the ratings story Close Up will chop and piece together...?

Close Up and Cambell Live are both shit and wouldn't watch anything they show... from personal experience they only show the bad side to build ratings... never the actual truth... they don't care about the truth...

YOU WANT THE TRUTH? YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!

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[Crasherfromwayback]

In that case Pete, I will certainly be watching it...:msn-wink:

I suppose the 'issue' can not be totally talked out in 10 mins, you did tell them that Kiwibikers know everything right?

Well they simply asked me three questions...and they edit it as much as they like anyway...so what was said ain't always what was actually said!

[elevenhundred]

That's why I'm gonna ride my whole life and avoid the 'return' to biking thing, then if I crash it's just cos I'm an idiot :)

[Skunk]

That's why I'm gonna ride my whole life and avoid the 'return' to biking thing, then if I crash it's just cos I'm an idiot :)
Good idea.

[Mully]

YOU WANT THE TRUTH? YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!


I deride your truth-handling abilities, you non-truth handler you.

[Number One]

Mad in all senses.
He is a sexy bitch though...there's just something about Jack

[98tls]

Or similar.Whilst having tea i heard this or similar emitting from the tele,all about guys getting back on bikes,tune in to TV ONE at 7.00 (close up) tonight and see what they have to say.Edit,whoops post 26,bit late sorry.

[Molly]

Anybody else watch this report? What a load of bollocks!!!

Buy a Japanese 750 as it's safer than buying a Harley... Fuck off you dick.

Oh, fuck it. It's the same old biased crap.

[mattian]

Anybody else watch this report? What a load of bollocks!!!

Buy a Japanese 750 as it's safer than buying a Harley... Fuck off you dick.

Oh, fuck it. It's the same old biased crap.

Did you actually get the jist of what the story was about? care to discuss it? or, was that really the only part you remember.

[98tls]

Anybody else watch this report? What a load of bollocks!!!

Buy a Japanese 750 as it's safer than buying a Harley... Fuck off you dick.

Oh, fuck it. It's the same old biased crap. Methinks you got the wrong end of the stick.

[snodpete]

Yeah - I'm cynical about the Close Up coverage - yet as a relative n00b and 'mature' returning rider I fit right in the demographic of highly at risk 'temporary NZers'...

I'm constantly mindful of the danger and do fear the reaper - looking at a 650 for first real bike, will that make me safer? I wonder. :mellow:

[oldrider]

They dwelt entirely on all the wrong things, another complete waist of time. :mad: John.

[Katman]

I agree with the majority of what was said.

Pity Paul Henry (Wankstain Extraordinaire) had to turn the last half of the segment into a wankfest.

[Ocean1]

Ixion!!


....

[3umph]

I agree what a load of crap... the person that it revolved round first was an accident on a diesel spill and that's meant to be the riders fault that he is in the mid-life age group...

ffs I'm one of those and as phil goff said we are more cautious.... would be good to know the statistics of what caused each accident and how many were road conditions....

my biggest scare has been from road conditions ie: de stoned black tar roads

[Kevnz]

Never thought much of Phil Goof but at least he put up some defense, at least 1 person in parliment may have a voice for us.

[fizbin]

This was a report by a person who had probably never owned a bike before in there life and therefor had no idea why we ride. I can agree with some of what they said but and disagree with other parts of it. but you have to take some of it with pinch of salt. especially the part where they refred to the majority of bikers as hard to educate!

[skidMark]

Anybody else watch this report? What a load of bollocks!!!

Buy a Japanese 750 as it's safer than buying a Harley... Fuck off you dick.

Oh, fuck it. It's the same old biased crap.


Harleys are safer, only go as fast as you push them

[Edbear]

Oh, go on! The media aren't all about sensationalising. They don't use words like "crisis", and phrases like "killing themselves in droves" to make it sound worse than it is... do they?

Of course it was a beat-up, most stories are when the networks a fiercely competing for ratings.

However for those of us who can ignore the hype, the problem is a real one, and I for one had that "Oh, crap!" moment after getting the GSX600F to return to biking and underestimated the rate of acceleration of a bike with twice the power of the old '73 T500 I had back in the '70's! Fortunately it also had far better handling and brakes! But the next time I was tempted to play with a fast car, I thought about it and declined.

Since getting back into biking in '03, I have relearned my riding skills and appreciate I'm not as skilled as others so don't try to match faster riders, or car drivers who would like me to "have a go".

The rider in the story who died, slipped on spilled diesel on a corner, the fact that he was riding a Busa wouldn't have made any difference - he was noted as an experienced and very skilled rider. Toaster had a bad accident with a sheep, (no not that type of accident!!!), on a corner at a relatively low speed and many accidents are not of the rider's fault. A few are, though, and I recognise that if the handling and brakes of the 600 had been as they were in the '70's, I might have been in a lot of pain or possibly dead. Lesson learned and I lived to ride another day.

I doubt that many older riders are careless, but may underestimate the power and speed of modern machinery and overestimate their skills, so if the Govt. can encourage taking refresher courses by publicising it good on them. Legislation would be very difficult to write, let alone enforce.

[Lucy]

The number of deaths had increased, but later on they said the number of registrations had quadrupled. They didn't join the two stats together and I couldn't remember the number, but it didn't seem like the 'rate' of deaths had increased hugely. (compared to number of bikes)

[sil3nt]

Anyone else notice the MP riding the bike on tv without wearing a helmet? Didnt catch the name.

[Edbear]

The number of deaths had increased, but later on they said the number of registrations had quadrupled. They didn't join the two stats together and I couldn't remember the number, but it didn't seem like the 'rate' of deaths had increased hugely. (compared to number of bikes)


Yeah, that too...

[carver]

born again n00bs dying in large numbers...

the govt clearly cant do shit

were all fucked!

what do you think?

[Lucy]

Anyone else notice the MP riding the bike on tv without wearing a helmet? Didnt catch the name.


Wasn't it Hone Harawira? And they made it sound as though Gareth Morgan rides a Harley, ha ha ha.

[AllanB]

I do find it rather odd that there are so many laws and rules saying what we/I/you cannot do, however someone who has not ridden a motorcycle for 20 years can pop down to their dealer and ride off on a Bussa, ZX14, Rocket 3 etc.
Then again a 16 year old can pass the test and buy a skyline on the way home.............

[davereid]

Yeah - I'm cynical about the Close Up coverage - yet as a relative n00b and 'mature' returning rider I fit right in the demographic of highly at risk 'temporary NZers'...

I'm constantly mindful of the danger and do fear the reaper - looking at a 650 for first real bike, will that make me safer? I wonder. :mellow:

Haha... the obsession with a motorcycles cc rating is as old as err, well its pretty old.

My (commuter) 650 is wayyyy quicker tham my Harley Sportster ever was.

The issue is simple. On a motorcycle you are 16-26 times more likely to die than in a car.

Helmets, jackets, lights on and pink fluoro jackets may help.

But they arent as good as seatbelts, active stability control, 4 wheel ABS, 16 airbags, and 3 feet of crumple zone.

In fact they arent even as good as a sunvisor or windscreen wipers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As long as we tolerate the idea that its OK for others to restrict our freedoms because "its not safe" we risk losing the stuff we enjoy.

Even if we only got rid of "THE SINGLE WORST THREAT TO SAFETY" every year, in time, all would be banned.

[Swoop]

Are they pumping "P" into the studio??

Can't those fuckwits speak at a normal rate?
Phil Goff was appearing "sensible" for 15 seconds but then reverted to his normal amount of stupidity.

But harley's are "slow" and "dangerous" according to this broadcast...

[naphazoline]

I felt it was disrespectful to Craig and his family.Craig wasn't in a midlife crisis,he's ridden all his life,so you can't say he's returning to riding,he could ride very well,and to top it all off,he was a fucking nice guy,from a nice family.

R.I.P Craig Blinkhorn.

He'll be sadly missed around here.

[Ocean1]

The number of deaths had increased, but later on they said the number of registrations had quadrupled. They didn't join the two stats together and I couldn't remember the number, but it didn't seem like the 'rate' of deaths had increased hugely. (compared to number of bikes)

Ya reckon?



You're right, it's a crock. The carnage is lower now than at most times in our history, relative to the number of riders. That's largely because the BAB's crash stat's are lower than the rest of the age demographic.

[fliplid]

Then again a 16 year old can pass the test and buy a skyline on the way home.............

Aint the point that they can drive any of the higher powered type cars on a base point license? As in with no legally defined progression?

[Rockbuddy]

the government owned tvnz were told to run that "beat up" on motorcyclists so the can justify raising the acc levies on our registration. just wait and see

[Lucy]

Then again a 16 year old can pass the test and buy a skyline on the way home.............

Gotta get a garage, gotta get a gottage, gotta get a skyline.

[gunrunner]

They say the average age is 38 now not 22 .

Buts it the 22 year olds in those turbo charged imports that are doing the damage now , why dont they do a follow up on that .

[NC]

They are old enough to make their own decisions, no matter what the out come.

In other words, Stupid is as stupid does

[carver]

They are old enough to make their own decisions, no matter what the out come.

In other words, Stupid is as stupid does

nice, i like your thinking

[AllanB]

In other words, Stupid is as stupid does

The problem with the stupid is that they tend to wipe out the innocent :bye:

[Sketchy Snr]

I saw this and was amazed, the freind of the huabusa man interviewed said and can you believe this that Harleys dont go round corners . Shit i came home over paekakariki hill tonight, transit have done an amazing job on that road lately, i didnt have to turn one corner luckily . Maybe i'm just pissed cause i fit into that catagory, middle aged Harley rider. Its allways easier to pick on the Harley rider. Oh well i,m still going to keep riding those straight roads.

[NC]

The problem with the stupid is that they tend to wipe out the innocent :bye:

Well, AllanB from Christchurch. It happens, shit that is.
Another reason to ride alone.

[sinned]

The programmers were fitting footage into a theme that was "middle age crisis" and motorbikes - esp HDs. Nothing else mattered to making a story to fit the slot. They even had a shrink in the programme to try and give it some credibility.


Anyone else notice the MP riding the bike on tv without wearing a helmet? Didnt catch the name. I was walking through Parliament grounds a days/weeks ago (hell old age and short term memory loss) and wondered why HDs were being ridden around.


Haha... the obsession with a motorcycles cc rating is as old as err, well its pretty old.
My (commuter) 650 is wayyyy quicker tham my Harley Sportster ever was.
Even if we only got rid of "THE SINGLE WORST THREAT TO SAFETY" every year, in time, all would be banned. The Hayabusa is pretty tame so long as the revs are kept below 4 -5k. Size and power does not relate directly to risk.


Yeah - I'm cynical about the Close Up coverage - yet as a relative n00b and 'mature' returning rider I fit right in the demographic of highly at risk 'temporary NZers'...

I'm constantly mindful of the danger and do fear the reaper - looking at a 650 for first real bike, will that make me safer? I wonder. :mellow: I am a BAB - and returned to a 1000cc bike 2+ years ago - in hindsight I should have started with a smaller bike where I would have more easily regained bike control skills.

[Rcktfsh]

Good on, Phill came across well, was tipping the commando in with gusto in the shots they showed.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Wasn't it Hone Harawira? And they made it sound as though Gareth Morgan rides a Harley, ha ha ha.

He does. I sold it to him.

[Maha]

The dude they were talking about has not been riding all his life, thats just stupid! He has more than likely been riding for a good portion of his life at best.

The Busa (in my opinion) was not the problem/cause of his death, did everyone miss the part where they spoke about the diesel on the road?

[nivram]

the government owned tvnz were told to run that "beat up" on motorcyclists so the can justify raising the acc levies on our registration. just wait and see

I love conspiracy theories :bleh:

[CookMySock]

Hehe, I missed the program. We ate fish and chips and played loud rock music and drank grog. It was awesome. I didn't read all this thread either. Is my life better or worse because of this? LOL.

Was this next bit part of the thread, or just your sig? Anyway, I'll bite ;


As long as we tolerate the idea that its OK for others to restrict our freedoms because "its not safe" we risk losing the stuff we enjoy.That is what they want you to think. The bottom line is more like, your freedoms are not restricted at all, and you can safely ignore their antics and go about your legal and peaceful business. Or you can respond to them and play their game by their rules, and get engaged in their game. Or not.. Be careful what you believe - everything is not what it seems.

Steve

[piston broke]

The Hayabusa is pretty tame so long as the revs are kept below 4 -5k. Size and power does not relate directly to risk.

I am a BAB - and returned to a 1000cc bike 2+ years ago - in hindsight I should have started with a smaller bike where I would have more easily regained bike control skills.

contra,what.
oh yeah,diction

[davereid]

The bottom line is more like, your freedoms are not restricted at all, and you can safely ignore their antics and go about your legal and peaceful business. Or you can respond to them and play their game by their rules, and get engaged in their game. Or not.. Be careful what you believe - everything is not what it seems.
Steve

haha... couldn't agree with you less...

What they actually say is
"We won't ban what your doing.. we just need you to get a licence to do it"
"We just need to make it a bit harder to get a licence, cos its still dangerous"
"We really will leave you alone as soon as you wear a helmet"
"We really need compulsory insurance"
"Time for headlights on all the time"
"Why won't you wear a pink jacket - people CANT SEE YOU"
"Only a dangerous rider would object to 5 yearly licence re-tests"
"Every one has to wear government approved protected gear"
"Really, they are just a leisure vehicle - what about a special application to get one, with like a good reason to own clause like on a gun licence"

[Naki Rat]

Wasn't it Hone Harawira? And they made it sound as though Gareth Morgan rides a Harley, ha ha ha.

Gareth's bike for riding in NZ is a Harley. It was a decision of practicality and sponsorship that saw him run with BMW for the expeditions. It's all in his book Silk Riders.

[Ocean1]

couldn't agree with you less...


davereid must try harder.





+1

[Naki Rat]

I agree with the majority of what was said.

Pity Paul Henry (Wankstain Extraordinaire) had to turn the last half of the segment into a wankfest.

Agreed. The first segment was pretty well balanced but between the always opinionated and totally ignorant Paul Henry and the "it's a male thing" airhead psychologist women.... well wankfest pretty well sums it up :tugger:

[CookMySock]

What they actually say is
"We won't ban what your doing.. we just need you to get a licence to do it"
"We just need to make it a bit harder to get a licence, cos its still dangerous"
"We really will leave you alone as soon as you wear a helmet"
"We really need compulsory insurance"
"Time for headlights on all the time"
"Why won't you wear a pink jacket - people CANT SEE YOU"
"Only a dangerous rider would object to 5 yearly licence re-tests"
"Every one has to wear government approved protected gear"
"Really, they are just a leisure vehicle - what about a special application to get one, with like a good reason to own clause like on a gun licence"I AGREE WITH YOU.

But you can SAFELY IGNORE the rest - its all SCARE TALK. Don't subscribe to their LIES. Yes, you have to have a motorcycle license. All the rest - IGNORE! and they cant lift a finger to you. Try it! Don't discuss - ignore, and they can't touch you.

Steve

[kiwifruit]

He does. I sold it to him.

You came across well ;)

[Crasherfromwayback]

You came across well ;)

Ta mate. Problem being I had a ten minute speal with the reporter...but the bits I really wanted them to air they didn't.

[sinned]

contra,what.
oh yeah,diction

Contra - 30,000kms on two wheels - diction. :laugh:

[1billyboy]

I am glad I am over 38. But back in the last centuary 60tees I was called a temporay New Zealander but I am still here:shit:

[arj127]

Come on Katman

[twotyred]

the government owned tvnz were told to run that "beat up" on motorcyclists so the can justify raising the acc levies on our registration. just wait and see

amongst other plans to reduce motorcyclists rights,no doubt...

[Mom]

Ta mate. Problem being I had a ten minute speal with the reporter...but the bits I really wanted them to air they didn't.

That whole editiing thing sucks sometimes for sure. Good effort Pete!

That female head doctor needs to step out here in the real world, apparently bikes are a blokes domain.

I actually thought that was a reasonable item on the whole, I did not watch all of the end bit with Paul Henry to be fair, but I did hear an acknowledgement that not enough has been done by the MOT to highlight the specific safety issues we face as motorcyclists on the road. Phill Goff even said we are not seen.

[sinned]

the government owned tvnz were told to run that "beat up" on motorcyclists so the can justify raising the acc levies on our registration. just wait and see


amongst other plans to reduce motorcyclists rights,no doubt...

There has been a change in government. Just because the last lot may have misused power doesn't mean that particular misuse will continue. Key has more pressing issues to deal with.

[Crasherfromwayback]

That whole editiing thing sucks sometimes for sure. Good effort Pete!

That female head doctor needs to step out here in the real world, apparently bikes are a blokes domain. .

Awww shucks. Thanks Love! The thing is...I answered their question about why are so many middle aged guys buying bikes with "It's not just guys...more women are buying bikes now than I've ever seen"

They asked.."Why are so many dying?" I said "More riders = more accidents"

They asked "What can we do about motorcycle safety?"

I said..."Educate the FUCKING DRIVERS OF CARS". I then said that Kiwis think it's their RIGHT to get a drivers licence at the age of 15...when in actual fact...that 'right' should be earnt. That it's far too easy for pimply faced young kids to drive fast cars that kill...yet you're going on about 'guys' that hurt themselves riding motorcycles.

Next time I get asked to say anything if front of a camera...I'll refuse unless they agree that they'll show everything I say!

Rant over.

[Mom]

Awww shucks. Thanks Love! The thing is...I answered their question about why are so many middle aged guys buying bikes with "It's not just guys...more women are buying bikes now than I've ever seen"

They asked.."Why are so many dying?" I said "More riders = more accidents"

They asked "What can we do about motorcycle safety?"

I said..."Educate the FUCKING DRIVERS OF CARS". I then said that Kiwis think it's their RIGHT to get a drivers licence at the age of 15...when in actual fact...that 'right' should be earnt. That it's far too easy for pimply faced young kids to drive fast cars that kill...yet you're going on about 'guys' that hurt themselves riding motorcycles.

Next time I get asked to say anything if front of a camera...I'll refuse unless they agree that they'll show everything I say!

Rant over.

Worst of it is the reporter has no control over editing, and the edited version is often far from what was said as you have discovered tonight. You still did well mate. The bias that item came from was obvious, but on the whole I dont think it was all negative, I heard positives too.

PS: Can I have your autograph seeing as you are famous and all

[Crasherfromwayback]

PS: Can I have your autograph seeing as you are famous and all

Sure you can...but not sure my nuts have enough 'ink' to sign my name for ya!

[naphazoline]

Saying that we are just trying to be young again/relive our youth?????.........
What a fu#king insult.
They're not showing any credibility as either a physcologist,or a reporter.

Also,i don't wear this thing about "motorists just not seeing motorcyclists". Seems a little convenient.
sure it DOES happen,,,BUT i feel it's a scapegoat in some instances.

How many times have we been on our bikes,and see somebody in a car looking at us,yet they still cut us off/pull out in front off us.

Is there some way we can sign a petition,and have it sent in to close up/tvnz,to voice our views on their Mis-reporting?

There's power in numbers,and with some of the valid points mentioned in this thread,i reckon it would be good to get some positive publicity for bikers after all the biker bashing of late.

Just a thought

[Paris]

Saying that we are just trying to be young again/relive our youth?????.........
What a fu#king insult.
They're not showing any credibility as either a physcologist,or a reporter.

Also,i don't wear this thing about "motorists just not seeing motorcyclists". Seems a little convenient.
sure it DOES happen,,,BUT i feel it's a scapegoat in some instances.

How many times have we been on our bikes,and see somebody in a car looking at us,yet they still cut us off/pull out in front off us.

Is there some way we can sign a petition,and have it sent in to close up/tvnz,to voice our views on their Mis-reporting?

There's power in numbers,and with some of the valid points mentioned in this thread,i reckon it would be good to get some positive publicity for bikers after all the biker bashing of late.

Just a thought

Totally ... fed up with people biker bashing .. it's boring - maybe we need a bike rider rally one weekend or something - there are more bikers around now, it's that simple eh...

[Shadows]

For those that missed it

http://tvnzondemand.co.nz/content/close_up_2007/ondemand_video_skin?tab=&sb=date-descending&e=close_up_2009_03_20#ep_close_up_2009_03_20

[Ixion]

Ixion!!


....

You bellowed ? I ain't crashed - just been trapped in Banjoland where the Internets has not yet penetrated. And I aint actually Born Again- in fact I dispute evn being born once. I didn't see it cos I never watch television. I gather they claimed that most of the (lamentable) fatal crashes this year were down to that current whipping boy, the Born Again Biker. I would like to know how they determine if the victim is indeed a BAB? Or do they classify ANY biker over 25 as being "Born again".

Should BRONZ complain about it ?

[mikeey01]

Just watched it on-line....
Typical shite journo biased point of view, ignore this and it wasn't all that bad.

Born again bikers.. even the name tag gives me the shits!

[_Shrek_]

I am glad I am over 38. But back in the last centuary 60tees I was called a temporay New Zealander but I am still here:shit:

a real living & :ride: Fossil onya Billy :2thumbsup:

[Ocean1]

I gather they claimed that most of the (lamentable) fatal crashes this year were down to that current whipping boy, the Born Again Biker.

More or less. Check out the linkything above your post.


Should BRONZ complain about it ?

Would it matter that it'd make not a jot of difference?

[munster]

Anyone else notice the MP riding the bike on tv without wearing a helmet? Didnt catch the name.

Looked like Hone Harawira to me.

I'm one of those returning riders too. Damned if I'm going to be a silly ass and hurt myself, I'd miss out on too much hunting!

Once I find a suitable affordable wife approved bike, I will be enrolling in a Ride Right Ride Safe course.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I watched it but got to that "shouting at the TV stage" and gave up. Their premise seemed to be "born again bikers are teh suck" yet the example of the poor guy who died when he came off a Busa was not a BUB: he had been riding since ages ago, i.e. he didnt stop. They did say they thought it was diesel spilled on the road that he fell off on. But instead of looking to see if that was in fact correct, finding out whodunnit and prosecuting the individual concerned, they blame the victim.

Sanctimonius gutter crap. I'll have no part of it.
I did develop a bit more respect for Goff, seeing that he could in fact ride.

[Shadows]

I did develop a bit more respect for Goff, seeing that he could in fact ride.

Don't be fooled. Lots of fuckwits ride bikes.

[doc]

I can talk shit for hours to anyone (and often do)...but add a camera to the mix and I hate it!:baby:

You could have been wearing a kb T.

Watched it and thought they missed the point about the road surfaces in the lead story, then let it turn into a Harley bashing time. Even missed the comment by Goff about not being seen.

Think it's all a lead up to raising our levies so they can educate us.

Still disappointed about not wearing the t tho.

[Beemer]

The guy's comments about Harleys were spot on the money, but the guy who died wasn't on a Harley. Neither was Gareth Morgan - wasn't the BMW badge a giveaway to them?

One thing they neglected to mention was the fact there are a lot of women motorcyclists too. And how many of them crash and kill themselves? I can't think of any myself, only pillions, so what is the reason for this? You can't just say more men ride than women because that's probably true with cars too, and yet women still manage to kill themselves driving cars.

Maybe - and this is just a maybe as there are probably female fuckwits who ride bikes too - women do think more about what they are doing and are prepared to take on board constructive criticism. I know I'm not a great rider but I have done two advanced rider training courses so at least I was willing to try and reduce my risks on the road. I didn't start riding until I was in my late thirties as opposed to those who are returning to motorcycling after 20 years away, so maybe because I had to start from scratch I didn't assume I was going to be a natural and I didn't ride beyond my limits.

I agreed with some of what was said - but that you take more risks as you age. I think it's more that many people in their 40s and older don't like being told what to do or what they are doing wrong. So maybe if someone criticises their riding, they think "fuck them" and ride even faster to try and prove something.

That psychologist was a joke. Surely they could have got someone unbiased to give their opinion rather than someone who obviously wasn't interested in bikes in the slightest. I swear if she'd said "absolutely" one more time I would have thrown something at the tv!

[Lucy]

Gareth's bike for riding in NZ is a Harley. It was a decision of practicality and sponsorship that saw him run with BMW for the expeditions. It's all in his book Silk Riders.

That may be so, but he was on a BMW in the story.

[Lucy]

Awww shucks. Thanks Love! The thing is...I answered their question about why are so many middle aged guys buying bikes with "It's not just guys...more women are buying bikes now than I've ever seen"

They asked.."Why are so many dying?" I said "More riders = more accidents"

They asked "What can we do about motorcycle safety?"

I said..."Educate the FUCKING DRIVERS OF CARS". I then said that Kiwis think it's their RIGHT to get a drivers licence at the age of 15...when in actual fact...that 'right' should be earnt. That it's far too easy for pimply faced young kids to drive fast cars that kill...yet you're going on about 'guys' that hurt themselves riding motorcycles.

Next time I get asked to say anything if front of a camera...I'll refuse unless they agree that they'll show everything I say!

Rant over.

I read of someone who has learnt to speak in 'soundbites', so they find it really difficult to edit them. They will never agree to play all you say, but if you only say a few choice words (not saying you were verbose, but it's tv, the reporters like the sound of their own voices not yours), then they have to use them.

[MarkH]

So, what was this piece on TV about? I watched it and still don't know! I feel that I have not been educated by the TV at all, what was their point?

Born again bikers!
Here is a guy that died, he wasn't a Born again rider, he had been riding most of his life, he didn't die due to recklessness, there may have been oil or diesel on the road. This has nothing to do with the topic, but we are showing it anyway.
Here is a guy that says trying to ride a Harley fast is dangerous, no shit - they are cruisers, not sports bikes.
Here is a politician that has ridden bikes on and off for a bunch of years that is thinking about buying a bike again.
Here is a psychiatrist, lets hear about a minute worth of her opinion.

There was no depth at all to this piece - pure fluff. No one looked at the number of deaths/registered bike - I still don't know if the death rate has gone up. I thought they may cover that when the guy said that in 5 years the new registrations had gone from 5 thousand a year to 20 thousand a year, but they didn't expand on that at all.

The idea that riding a Harley fast is dangerous - was there any support for that at all? I mean - any evidence that lots of Harley riders dying because they mistakenly think their bikes are GSXRs and can be thrown through the corners at high speed? Is this really a big problem? How many deaths per year are inexperienced born again riders on Harleys pushing them too hard?

[Ixion]

Would it matter that it'd make not a jot of difference?

D' y' think that it would be a lost cause would be likely to put off a Christian, Monarchist, Jacobite, Communist , KB biker?

[Beemer]

Yes, they should have got Gareth on a Harley if that's what he usually rides!

It would have been interesting for them to say "in 1990 there were x-many bikes registered and x-many motorcyclists killed on the road, and in 2008 there were x-many bikes and x-many accidents" so we could compare the statistics.

And how many of those were scooters that never see the open road? (Although there have been some deaths on scooters.)

Motorcyclists hard to educate and don't listen? Sweeping generalisations, don't you just love them! I have tattoos as well as a motorcycle so I suppose that makes me twice as hard to get through to - someone should have told my university lecturers, I may have got a dispensation!

Pete, you came across well and at least you got in the bit about a refresher course. As a matter of interest, does anyone offer them? A sort of "return to motorcycling" practical course would be great. And I agree that getting a licence shouldn't be a right but something that has to be earned.

[Ocean1]

I read of someone who has learnt to speak in 'soundbites', so they find it really difficult to edit them.

Standard polly / CEO media training. Under no circumstances answer the question as asked. Answer the question you wanted them to ask, using as many pre-selected sequences as possible.

[_Shrek_]

They did say they thought it was diesel spilled on the road that he fell off on.

this must be a standard print in papers, coz I crashed the week before this guy died on a diesel spill & the paper said they thought it was diesel spilled yet in another part of same paper, sand had to be put on diesel that had been spilled in patchers over a 27km strech of road the same strech I was on "Doh" yet nothing is being done to stop this, just blame the biker he's having a mid life thingie

[Ocean1]

D' y' think that it would be a lost cause would be likely to put off a Christian, Monarchist, Jacobite, Communist , KB biker?

You don’t get the same good healthy cathartic rant opportunities with the winnable ones.

Edit: I mean, where's the fun in: "Oh look, here's incontrovertible proof you're wrong. Idiot."

[MarkH]

Yes, they should have got Gareth on a Harley if that's what he usually rides!

That would only make sense if they cared - they showed a guy that had died who wasn't a born again rider (therefore unrelated to the piece) and they listed some Harley riders including Gareth - to show a clip of him actually on a Harley was obviously not something that they thought mattered.

When Phil Goff said it wasn't a mid-life crisis thing (him wanting a Harley), wankstain the reporter said "let us be the judge of that" (or something to that effect) but they never gave a verdict on that.

Overall this piece was to journalism what fizzy drink and chips are to fine dining!

[cs363]

Have just been in here to have a chat with me. I fucking hate having a camera jammed in my face when talking!

I can talk shit for hours to anyone (and often do)...but add a camera to the mix and I hate it!:baby:

You looked great Pete, awesome job on the makeup.... :laugh:

Apart from the highlight of seeing our very own KB TV star, the rest of the report was pretty well what I expected - typical media beat up and slanted prime time reporting. While a lot of the report was negative and some of the comments were either misguided or 'creatively' edited, I was surprised by one of, if not the first time I've had cause to think 'good on you Phil Goff' (doubtful it will happen again...).
Certainly doesn't help with positive public perception though, ideally some organisation or media heavy on the motorcycle side should try and present a balanced view point. Be interesting to see if BRONZ or someone seize the opportunity.

I will also add my name to those who disagree with the comment that you take more risks as you get older, I for one certainly ride much more sedately and am very mindful of the dangers of riding on the road compared to when I was in my teens and twenties.

[Katman]

Helmets, jackets, lights on and pink fluoro jackets may help.

But they arent as good as seatbelts, active stability control, 4 wheel ABS, 16 airbags, and 3 feet of crumple zone.



Or a brain between two fucking ears.

[cs363]

Or a brain between two fucking ears.


:yes: If an intelligence test was part of the drivers licence test the road would be a lonely place.... :whistle:

[Katman]

It pisses me off that a statement can be made like the one I quoted above that contains every single item that may enhance one's chance of survival except the one that is singularly most important - our own fucking common sense.

[Katman]

Awww shucks. Thanks Love! The thing is...I answered their question about why are so many middle aged guys buying bikes with "It's not just guys...more women are buying bikes now than I've ever seen"

They asked.."Why are so many dying?" I said "More riders = more accidents"

They asked "What can we do about motorcycle safety?"

I said..."Educate the FUCKING DRIVERS OF CARS". I then said that Kiwis think it's their RIGHT to get a drivers licence at the age of 15...when in actual fact...that 'right' should be earnt. That it's far too easy for pimply faced young kids to drive fast cars that kill...yet you're going on about 'guys' that hurt themselves riding motorcycles.

Next time I get asked to say anything if front of a camera...I'll refuse unless they agree that they'll show everything I say!

Rant over.

I thought you came across better on TV than with the above load of bullshit.

[cs363]

It pisses me off that a statement can be made like the one I quoted above that contains every single item that may enhance one's chance of survival except the one that is singularly most important - our own fucking common sense.

After reading your post a couple of times, I'm assuming you are referring to the previous post you quoted, as opposed to the quote you posted from me? :)

[Katman]

After reading your post a couple of times, I'm assuming you are referring to the previous post you quoted, as opposed to the quote you posted from me? :)

Fixed.

:whistle:

[cs363]

Fixed.

:whistle:

All good! :laugh: :apint:

[Chrislost]

For those that missed it

http://tvnzondemand.co.nz/content/close_up_2007/ondemand_video_skin?tab=&sb=date-descending&e=close_up_2009_03_20#ep_close_up_2009_03_20

I have no idea what the point of that was.
They didnt really make any points, in my opinion all they did was bag motorcyclists!

The main guy in the first half of the program seemed to be busy bagging harleys.

The death they reported on was a guy who hit diesel(although if you look at the road shown, there was a VERY NASTY looking line of tar bleed), and crashed. What relivance does that have to born again bikers crashing? Did they not have tar bleed/diesel in the "70s?

In the second half, it seemed the presenter was just sucking Phill G's nob...

Anyway, im going to enjoy sitting here being notoriously difficult to educate, wondering why wont they wont show some bike racing, eg Paeroa, on their news show.

[Mom]

Sure you can...but not sure my nuts have enough 'ink' to sign my name for ya!

It is annoying when you have to spread yourself around at times :lol:

[SARGE]

You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom.

You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.

We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!


preach it brother!

[dipshit]

They asked.."Why are so many dying?" I said "More riders = more accidents"

They asked "What can we do about motorcycle safety?"

I said..."Educate the FUCKING DRIVERS OF CARS".


75% of fatal motorcycle accidents in NZ are rider error, yet you want to educate car drivers to fix the problem...???

[Krayy]

Things I learned while watching that piece'o'shite puff piece...

1) I am notoriously hard to educate. Ask the wife, she knows.

2) Every wannabe biker needs to sit down with a berating psychologist who doesn't have the first idea what the hell makes a biker tick.

3) Phil Goff has no taste in bikes.

4) Crasherfromwayback (Pete) looks good on camera

5) Paul Henry is a dick...oh hang on, I knew that already :whistle:

[AllanB]

It happens, shit that is.
Another reason to ride alone.

When you are riding along and a big hunk of frozen urine from a jet-plane hits your bike causing you to fall off - that's 'shit happens'

A diesel spill around a blind corner - unfortunately 'shit happens'

A try-hard on a bike on the wrong side of the road on a blind corner - that's not shit happens - that's some fool biker being a shit.



I've watched the article online twice - not really sure what you are all getting your nickers twisted over - they stated clearly it was possibly a diesel spill that caused the rider to go down, they also stated he'd been riding all his life. He sounds like a decent, well respected chap. He was just an example of a almost 40 year old biker dying, as they appear to have been once every 5 days this year. Plus they stated that about 50% are caused by other road users.

That's some pretty shit statistics regardless how or why it is happening - and the KB community is aware of it - do a search for 'biker down'......

Mid-life crisis - probably true of lots of riders, so what, who cares why you get back into it, it's farking great. The point was maybe don't go straight back onto a big bike or first do a rider training course.

Bikers being a notoriously hard bunch to educate - classic comment - I may get T-shirts printed :laugh: Mainly because it appears true - just watch the responses on KB to Katmans posts about slowing down or public awareness.

Harleys - pretty much the only comment I objected to in the article was the 'don't go around corners' one.

Goff - respect gained, mental bling given - just don't fall off the bastard or the media will slaughter us all! :spanking:

I'll be out for a hoon this weekend, there is bound to be some speed involved, but I'll be watching both sides of the road pretty sharply.

Best of all I'll have a smile on my face.

[dipshit]

the government owned tvnz were told to run that "beat up" on motorcyclists so the can justify raising the acc levies on our registration. just wait and see

:crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:

How often do the Monday morning papers read... "6 killed on the roads over the weekend, 3 of which were motorcyclists"

Much too often. It doesn't take a genius to work out that if a small minority of road users are making up 50% of the road fatalities weekend after weekend - that some aren't going to take a closer look.

[dipshit]

One thing they neglected to mention was the fact there are a lot of women motorcyclists too.

Yes there are.



And how many of them crash and kill themselves?

Nowhere near as much. In fact ACC and the MOT mention this as well. Female riders are dramatically underrepresented from motorcycle accident statistics even though there are lots of female riders.

This suggests that the problem is largely male dick measuring ego bullshit that is getting the male riders killed.

[3umph]

:crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:

How often do the Monday morning papers read... "6 killed on the roads over the weekend, 3 of which were motorcyclists"

Much too often. It doesn't take a genius to work out that if a small minority of road users are making up 50% of the road fatalities weekend after weekend - that some aren't going to take a closer look.

56 bikers killed last year i think the stats they quoted... thats not half the road toll...

so fuck all times bikes are making half the road toll each weekend

but yes there has been a bad run since christmas so far this year

[cs363]

56 bikers killed last year i think the stats they quoted... thats not half the road toll...

so fuck all times bikes are making half the road toll each weekend

but yes there has been a bad run since christmas so far this year


That's the thing about statistics and why the media love them, depending on how you quote them and depending on what information you neglect to quote, they can pretty well say whatever you want them to say.

Facts are stubborn, but statistics are more pliable. :)

[dipshit]

56 bikers killed last year i think the stats they quoted... thats not half the road toll...

so fuck all times bikes are making half the road toll each weekend


But a lot of bikes only get taken out and used on the weekends.

[DougieNZ]

I reckon that the article was pretty well balanced and there is a clear message we should take on board.

Stats Quoted:
In 1980 the average age of motorcyclists killed was 22
In 2008 it was 38.

in 2007 41 Motorcyclist Fatalities
in 2008 51 motorcyclist Fatalities
in 2009 16 so far - expanded x 4 = 64 if the trend continues

So more motorcyclists are being killed and they are getting older when it happens.

My Opinion

Motorcycles today are as lot more powerful than they were 20 years ago. Anyone that has ridden a decent range of bikes would say that cruisers do not handle as well as more upright or sports bikes. I do believe that this could be a factor in the above stats.

Perhaps the wrong example has been used, but we all do Craig's loved ones a disservice if we do not take some sort of message on board from this tragic start to the year.

Remember Craig's mates describing the shock "because he was such a good rider". Maybe there was diesel on the road - maybe there wasn't. people have described me in the same way - but it only takes one mistake, or bad decision and it can be all over.

LET's BE CAREFUL OUT THERE

More importantly - lets take the message on board!

[Crasherfromwayback]

75% of fatal motorcycle accidents in NZ are rider error, yet you want to educate car drivers to fix the problem...???

You know that for a fact? ALL of the nasty ones I've had have been some blind cunt pulling out in front of me or doing a 'u' turn without looking.

And I'd be surprised if anyone here hasn't had car drivers do stupid shit that's caused them to either bin it..or come fucking close to binning it. So you don't think car drivers should be better educated towards motorcyclists?

Good for you.

[cs363]

Stats Quoted:
In 1980 the average age of motorcyclists killed was 22
In 2008 it was 38.

in 2007 41 Motorcyclist Fatalities
in 2008 51 motorcyclist Fatalities
in 2009 16 so far - expanded x 4 = 64 if the trend continues

So more motorcyclists are being killed and they are getting older when it happens.

My Opinion


LET's BE CAREFUL OUT THERE

More importantly - lets take the message on board!


I think something you aren't taking into account (as is the practice when quoting statistics in isolation, lol) is the increase in new bike registrations. This would tend to suggest that there are more motorcyclists on the road, hence the proportional increase in accidents/deaths. Here are the rego figures up to 2007 (sorry, LTSA are soooo busy that there stats are two years old...): http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/statistics/motor-vehicle-registration/2007/table-20.html

From memory 20,000 was the figure quoted on the show last night (can't be buggered watching it again, so feel free to correct me) and this would follow the trend shown in the above rego statistics.

That aside, it doesn't lessen the message to be careful out there, and as Pete said on TV, if you've been off the bike for a long time and are just getting back into it, do a refresher course. Better to feel a bit of a dick going back to school than to end up in hospital or worse.

[Ocean1]

It pisses me off that a statement can be made like the one I quoted above

Kewl…


Helmets, jackets, lights on and pink fluoro jackets may help. But they arent as good as seatbelts, active stability control, 4 wheel ABS, 16 airbags, and 3 feet of crumple zone.

Helmets, jackets, lights on and pink fluoro jackets may help. But they arent as good as seatbelts, active stability control, 4 wheel ABS, 16 airbags, and 3 feet of crumple zone.

Helmets, jackets, lights on and pink fluoro jackets may help. But they arent as good as seatbelts, active stability control, 4 wheel ABS, 16 airbags, and 3 feet of crumple zone.

Helmets, jackets, lights on and pink fluoro jackets may help. But they arent as good as seatbelts, active stability control, 4 wheel ABS, 16 airbags, and 3 feet of crumple zone.

Now go away and be pissed quietly in a corner somewhere.




Mid-life crisis - probably true of lots of riders, so what, who cares why you get back into it,

Mythological urban stereotype. There's fuck all critical about the phenomena, quite the opposite, it's a slackening of social and financial restrictions, allowing a return to something most of us never really left willingly.


Bikers being a notoriously hard bunch to educate - classic comment - I may get T-shirts printed :laugh:
Put me down for an XL. Suggestions for appropriate graphics should be forwarded to AllanB, care of the society for the prevention of gratuitous social engineering.

I’m a quiet, unassuming type. But the fact that my tax contributions are spent on the “educational” bullshit I see on the rare occasion I watch TV makes me a tad annoyed. I’d have seen the extraordinarily dumbed-down parody of a news show I had the misfortune to be unable to avoid last night as classic comedy, except for the dark suspicion that there’s almost certainly at least six people out there that were indeed shocked and horrored, and will spend Monday’s smoko break alternating between deriding all dem monstrously irrational old bikers and wiping spittle from their chins.

[zzzbang]

what a bunch of rubbish. they didnt get into any detail of the causes of crashes, bad road conditions drunk drivers.. nothing. they just say that people aged 40 dont know how to ride motorbikes, they will crash. what an intelligent arguement. random woman that says she knows nothing about motorbikes VS. phil goth, battling it out for the motorcyclists, hmm... whatever.

[oldrider]

this must be a standard print in papers, coz I crashed the week before this guy died on a diesel spill & the paper said they thought it was diesel spilled yet in another part of same paper, sand had to be put on diesel that had been spilled in patchers over a 27km strech of road the same strech I was on "Doh" yet nothing is being done to stop this, just blame the biker he's having a mid life thingie

Well in your case I Know you are not in a mid life crisis! :spanking:

You are just mid way into a "whole" life crisis! :laugh: Cheers (your friend?) John.

[Mom]

It would have been interesting for them to say "in 1990 there were x-many bikes registered and x-many motorcyclists killed on the road, and in 2008 there were x-many bikes and x-many accidents" so we could compare the statistics.

I am in the process of gathering some data at the moment

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=92937

You have asked a good question, I will ask it from the very nice man at LTNZ.


75% of fatal motorcycle accidents in NZ are rider error, yet you want to educate car drivers to fix the problem...???

You know this how? Absolute bollocks mate!

The Ministry of Transport representative on the clip last night clearly stated that 50% of motorcycle accidents are attributed to rider error and 50% to other road users fault. Still not wonderful statistics but nothing like the number you just stated. You have just raised another good question for me to ask.

[rachprice]

Well Pete werent you lovely!

I didnt agree with a lot of it but didnt think it was that bad

I agree with what has been previously said about the stats did they mention where they were from?

[cs363]

You know that for a fact? ALL of the nasty ones I've had have been some blind cunt pulling out in front of me or doing a 'u' turn without looking.

And I'd be surprised if anyone here hasn't had car drivers do stupid shit that's caused them to either bin it..or come fucking close to binning it. So you don't think car drivers should be better educated towards motorcyclists?

Good for you.

Who was the blind cunt that caused this?: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/picture.php?albumid=936&pictureid=8986


:rofl: :laugh:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Who was the blind cunt that caused this?: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/picture.php?albumid=936&pictureid=8986


:rofl: :laugh:

Actually mate...the sifter that did a silly thing caused that. That's one of the few road racing biffs I've had that wasn't my fault!

[cs363]

Actually mate...the sifter that did a silly thing caused that. That's one of the few road racing biffs I've had that wasn't my fault!


If that's the case, then I can definitely confirm the last paragraph! :Pokey: :laugh:

[Crasherfromwayback]

If that's the case, then I can definitely confirm the last paragraph! :Pokey: :laugh:

And I'd never argue that one mate!

[Tony.OK]

Another stat to consider re the average age thing would be that theres probably no where near as many younguns riding compared with 1980, they are more interested in 4 wheeled things that make a pssssstttt noise when ya change gear:msn-wink:

[Grahameeboy]

I reckon that the article was pretty well balanced and there is a clear message we should take on board.

Stats Quoted:
In 1980 the average age of motorcyclists killed was 22
In 2008 it was 38.

in 2007 41 Motorcyclist Fatalities
in 2008 51 motorcyclist Fatalities
in 2009 16 so far - expanded x 4 = 64 if the trend continues

So more motorcyclists are being killed and they are getting older when it happens.

My Opinion

Motorcycles today are as lot more powerful than they were 20 years ago. Anyone that has ridden a decent range of bikes would say that cruisers do not handle as well as more upright or sports bikes. I do believe that this could be a factor in the above stats.

Perhaps the wrong example has been used, but we all do Craig's loved ones a disservice if we do not take some sort of message on board from this tragic start to the year.

Remember Craig's mates describing the shock "because he was such a good rider". Maybe there was diesel on the road - maybe there wasn't. people have described me in the same way - but it only takes one mistake, or bad decision and it can be all over.

LET's BE CAREFUL OUT THERE

More importantly - lets take the message on board!

Good message but figures can be debated.

Years ago biking was a young persons thing because cars were a luxury...now bikes are a luxury and cars are cheap ie jap imports so your average 22 year old is likely to get a car...don't need expensive protection.

Fatalities may be up...more cars on roads...few more bike registrations.

But agree that if the average 38 year old on a bike comes from driving a car they still have the same baditude.

Could be roads are worse, lots of factor...but either way any fatality is bad

[BMWST?]

i mwonder what the average age the population is now compared to twenty yeears ago.

[zzzbang]

The Ministry of Transport representative on the clip last night clearly stated that 50% of motorcycle accidents are attributed to rider error and 50% to other road users fault.

These statistics again leave out the terrible road conditions and other factors. Statistics are useless unless you take everything into account.. they keep telling us about these stats but its never the complete picture.. we keep getting this worthless blabber. Getting totally fed up with these incompetent fools running the show.

[brightspark]

As far as the generalisation that this section of the population are notoriously hard to educate, The TV1 researchers only had to spend an hour or so scanning the pages of this very forum to get a flavour of the attitude/mindset of the average kiwi biker.

Whilst there are many useful and thought-provoking threads, there are equally as many which are dismissive of authority, or the valid opinions of others, and many which display exactly what they think other readers want to hear - i.e. a devil - may - care, two fingers up, she'll be right mate attitude which they think will endear them to like minded people (not neccessarily bikers).

In short, its about the 'pack' mentality. People who post here often want to align themselves with the majority. Hence the guy on Close Up who spoke on behalf of bikers in (in my opinion) a thoughtful and intelligent way, has seen a few posts here criticising his comments , and rather than defend himself, has apparently decided to instead, align himself with the 'pack' and distance himself from his own words!

Without any evidence to back my claim whatsoever, I would suggest that the 'one of the gang' mentality which pervades these pages, transfers itself to the open road every weekend. A group of riders tends to get led by the Alpha male who, to maintain the position at the front, has to be the fastest rider, most willing to take risks. The rest either try to keep up, or are out of the 'gang'.

If you ride alone, you are subconsciously practicing for the day when you challenge the Alpha male, (think wildlife docos - lion cubs etc..)so you are still likely to take needless risks, but in the safe situation of a solo ride, where no actual confrontation will take place. - there, I think I phsyco - babbled better than the woman last night. Finally, again, spend an hour browsing through this site and let us know what opinion it gives YOU of the average Kiwi rider? cheers.

[Naki Rat]

this must be a standard print in papers, coz I crashed the week before this guy died on a diesel spill & the paper said they thought it was diesel spilled yet in another part of same paper, sand had to be put on diesel that had been spilled in patchers over a 27km strech of road the same strech I was on "Doh" yet nothing is being done to stop this, just blame the biker he's having a mid life thingie

In addition the morning of Craig Blinkhorne's crash (Paeroa race day) it was showery if not fully wet, possibly after a dry spell. Lack of caution on his part or lack of action on road maintenance's part - you decide.

[Genestho]

The highlighting of a the B.A.B issue was great, however, how come they attached the story of the death of a rider who was reported as NOT a B.A.B???
It would be sad if there was media manipulation involved ....I mean absolutely no disrespect to Craigs family, May he Rest In Peace, and may peace come to the family..but..

Seemed a mismatch of info there...
That aside, the advocation of taking refresher courses after a gap in riding time seems fairly simple as well as promoting awareness...and self responsibility, it is very hard to imagine little Goff Kaining (sp?) a Commando.

There was a message there, whether or not it's taken on board is up to "us"..at the moment..

Perhaps if the bike stats were broken down and dissected "losing control" what exactly does that cover...etc etc?
Co-alation of data and how it's used, would be interesting to find out...


Nice to put a face to the name Crasher:niceone:..

[skidMark]

**too long to quote whole post**

That was by far the most accurate and well written post to ever grace this site.

[Ocean1]

Perhaps if the bike stats were broken down and dissected "losing control" what exactly does that cover...etc etc?
Co-alation of data and how it's used, would be interesting to find out...


Waste of time, the data is corrupt. You'd have to design your own somewhat less biased system, examine a shitload of accident reports and catagorise each accordingly.

[Katman]

As far as the generalisation that this section of the population are notoriously hard to educate, The TV1 researchers only had to spend an hour or so scanning the pages of this very forum to get a flavour of the attitude/mindset of the average kiwi biker.

Whilst there are many useful and thought-provoking threads, there are equally as many which are dismissive of authority, or the valid opinions of others, and many which display exactly what they think other readers want to hear - i.e. a devil - may - care, two fingers up, she'll be right mate attitude which they think will endear them to like minded people (not neccessarily bikers).

In short, its about the 'pack' mentality. People who post here often want to align themselves with the majority. Hence the guy on Close Up who spoke on behalf of bikers in (in my opinion) a thoughtful and intelligent way, has seen a few posts here criticising his comments , and rather than defend himself, has apparently decided to instead, align himself with the 'pack' and distance himself from his own words!

Without any evidence to back my claim whatsoever, I would suggest that the 'one of the gang' mentality which pervades these pages, transfers itself to the open road every weekend. A group of riders tends to get led by the Alpha male who, to maintain the position at the front, has to be the fastest rider, most willing to take risks. The rest either try to keep up, or are out of the 'gang'.

If you ride alone, you are subconsciously practicing for the day when you challenge the Alpha male, (think wildlife docos - lion cubs etc..)so you are still likely to take needless risks, but in the safe situation of a solo ride, where no actual confrontation will take place. - there, I think I phsyco - babbled better than the woman last night. Finally, again, spend an hour browsing through this site and let us know what opinion it gives YOU of the average Kiwi rider? cheers.

Great post.

Unfortunately, there are none so blind as those that refuse to see.

(And I'm not talking about car drivers).

[MarkH]

That aside, it doesn't lessen the message to be careful out there, and as Pete said on TV, if you've been off the bike for a long time and are just getting back into it, do a refresher course. Better to feel a bit of a dick going back to school than to end up in hospital or worse.

I did an RRRS course last year (after returning to biking following a 20 year absence) and it was good. Got me thinking more about what I was doing and practising stuff with experienced riders watching how I did it. Better to have a guy tell you that you need to look further through the corner than to find out that you don't look far enough ahead when you have an accident. Now after 7 months of riding I have clocked up more than 16,000 kms of riding and feel more confident, but I still look out for any bad habits I may have and seek to find ways that I can improve.

From the TV program I can agree with the part about the refresher course being a good idea.

But
I disagree about labelling it 'a midlife crisis' - how is that helpful? The fact is that many older guys are getting back into biking, the reason behind it is not really that important.
Riding cruisers too fast - based on what evidence? I still don't know that there are many deaths attributed to pushing a cruiser past its limit.
I wonder about the inclusion of Craig's accident in a piece about B.A.B.s - how exactly is that accident relevant? If it isn't relevant to the news piece that thay are airing then why put it in?

[Katman]

Riding cruisers too fast - based on what evidence? I still don't know that there are many deaths attributed to pushing a cruiser past its limit.


I have seen a number of Harleys through my shop with the primary chain case ground down from over exuberant cornering. You can only do for so long before the case decides to dump it's oil all over your rear tyre.

[Reckless]

Did any of you notice that the yellow marks on the road in the article where smack on one of those strips where the chip is punched through and the glossy black icy tarstuff is showing. Reasonable chip either side as well! Remember it was wet!

That was exactly this scenario that put a mate of mine off his bike and skating down the road. Broken collar bone, bike a write off! It was wet and we where cruising along and the bike just went out from under him. He swears he never braked or did anything to upset the bike. It was wet, and we went back to inspect the road, no oil nothing except that patch of black glossy shit! He was on a Ducati, good tyres, brakes etc??

This poor bugger died from what looked like the same scenario? But does anyone blame the bloody shocking state of our roads, no. Its always "ride to the the conditions" that's the out clause they all use. The way I see it at some point the unpredictability of the road condition, because of poor maintenance, construction etc must play a role. Imagine if there had been a fucking cheese cutter there as well!!! Does Transit need to be sued for murder??? No they'll just say he was speeding or Not "riding to the conditions"

Sounds like this guy was a good and experienced rider. Maybe his line drifted a bit from the chip area onto the wet exposed tar?
Did that super slick patch catch him out?
Should it not have been there at all!
Should we all be so good we can detect constantly changing road condition by the meter.
Or should we expect consistent road condition.
This might also be a scenario where Mrs Smith and her family in their SUV says "it just skidded officer"as he calls the Ambo for her kids?

Was the road condition the deciding factor that killed this guy? I'll leave it to you to decide?

Rant over! That's my 2c, agree or disagree I don't give a shit! But our roads are bloody shocking!!!!

[Katman]

Its always "ride to the the conditions" that's the out clause they all use.

Makes sense, dunnit?

:weird:

[Reckless]

Oh shit not you!! :weird: Miss the point, aim at the poster again! Typical!

Can't be bothered with your shit today! CYA

[dipshit]

You know that for a fact?

It's all in here...
www.transport.govt.nz/assets/NewPDFs/Motorcycle-Crash-Factsheet.pdf



ALL of the nasty ones I've had have been some blind cunt pulling out in front of me or doing a 'u' turn without looking.

So you base what is going on in this country on your own personal experiences..?? In other words you haven't got a f#ing clue and are just talking shit.



And I'd be surprised if anyone here hasn't had car drivers do stupid shit that's caused them to either bin it..or come fucking close to binning it. So you don't think car drivers should be better educated towards motorcyclists?

It isn't the biggest problem and why so many motorcyclists are killing themselves every weekend.

[Genestho]

Waste of time, the data is corrupt. You'd have to design your own somewhat less biased system, examine a shitload of accident reports and catagorise each accordingly.

I wonder if there is any non-govt organisation that collects the same incoming data...?

And just out of interest...could someone please let me know if Bronz has independant data analysts? And if not why not? Or is that off topic?:eek:

[Katman]

Miss the point,

No, the point is - ride to the fucking conditions.

[dipshit]

You know this how? Absolute bollocks mate!

The Ministry of Transport representative on the clip last night clearly stated that 50% of motorcycle accidents are attributed to rider error and 50% to other road users fault. Still not wonderful statistics but nothing like the number you just stated. You have just raised another good question for me to ask.

www.transport.govt.nz/assets/NewPDFs/Motorcycle-Crash-Factsheet.pdf

Yes half of *all* accidents are rider fault.

75% of *fatal* motorcycle accidents are rider fault.

Why? Having cars pulling out in front of you happen more in suburban low speed areas and result in more minor injuries... i.e. concussions, broken arms etc.

Fatal motorcycle accidents tend to happen out in the countryside on the open road at higher speeds when the rider fails to take a corner and goes through a farmers fence or into the path of an oncoming car/motorcycle.

[zzzbang]

In short, its about the 'pack' mentality. People who post here often want to align themselves with the majority. Hence the guy on Close Up who spoke on behalf of bikers in (in my opinion) a thoughtful and intelligent way, has seen a few posts here criticising his comments , and rather than defend himself, has apparently decided to instead, align himself with the 'pack' and distance himself from his own words!

Without any evidence to back my claim whatsoever, I would suggest that the 'one of the gang' mentality which pervades these pages, transfers itself to the open road every weekend. A group of riders tends to get led by the Alpha male who, to maintain the position at the front, has to be the fastest rider, most willing to take risks. The rest either try to keep up, or are out of the 'gang'.



Maybe its just me, but this alpha male stuff.. if you ride like that, pushing it just to be 'in front' then you will end up under a truck. If you dont see that coming then you will feel it soon. And if you ride in a group that operates like that.. its stupid. grow up? ridings supposed to be about having fun, not racing your buddies to the death or am i wrong?

[dipshit]

This poor bugger died from what looked like the same scenario? But does anyone blame the bloody shocking state of our roads, no. Its always "ride to the the conditions"

I bet you a dozen other motorcycles made it through that corner ok that day. A factor that didn't help the rider was like the car driver who was passed by the bike at a high rate of speed said... "I could hear him coming before he even passed me!"

Ride to the the conditions isn't a silly notion.

[zzzbang]

"I could hear him coming before he even passed me!"


And that proves that he was going fast? cmon

[Katman]

Sure, we might have terrible sections of roading in New Zealand but........

What good is going to come from lying on your death bed crying "but it wasn't my fault, it was the road's fault"?

I'm all for trying to get the authorities to improve the road conditions but until then - RIDE TO THE CURRENT CONDITIONS.

[Swoop]

Ta mate. Problem being I had a ten minute speal with the reporter...but the bits I really wanted them to air they didn't.
Here is the secret... Do not sign the release until they have showed you the finished (edited) version that they intend to broadcast.

When Phil Goff said it wasn't a mid-life crisis thing
More of an "end of career crisis" thing!

[naphazoline]

.. [I]"I could hear him coming before he even passed me!"

That must be why they were eluding to harley rider accidents then.

I can here them coming a mile away!

[dipshit]

The highlighting of a the B.A.B issue was great, however, how come they attached the story of the death of a rider who was reported as NOT a B.A.B???

Maybe because he happened to of died and made the newspapers around the time the producers decided to put the story together... so he was the one they could interview family and show footage of the funeral etc. Timing.

[AllanB]

And that proves that he was going fast? cmon
Reminds me of a incident years ago around Kaikoura - a mate got a speeding ticket. He was pulled over at the bottom of the hills (he was not speeding when pull over) - the cop wrote him a ticket for speeding as "I could hear you going through the gears on the hill - you must have been speeding'.
Enough to say he got off that one......

Funny in retrospect.

[dipshit]

And that proves that he was going fast? cmon

Of course everyone here will conveniently overlook that bit and blame the road instead.

Blaming everything on car drivers and the roads is half the problem.

[zzzbang]

completely ridiculous.

[zzzbang]

Of course everyone here will conveniently overlook that bit and blame the road instead.


Im not saying he wasnt at fault. BUT basing your conclusion on why he crashed on some half arsed piece of evidence like that is ridiculous!

do i really have to point out that any bike with some customized exhaust has the potential to be extremely loud?

[YellowDog]

Well I guess I am as close to the stereo-type as you can get. I rode bikes and did my test in the 1980s and it was only because I got a scooter in 2002 to get me to town quickly through the traffic that I decided to get another bike. 80kph on a 50cc put-put wasn’t enough and only served to wet my appetite. My wife said ‘no’, but I told her to put it down to my mid-life crisis and just went ahead anyway. This was in 2004. Fortunately she is a great pillion passenger and always wants me to go faster around the corners!

Whilst getting my bike insured I noticed that my licence had no mention of my 1984 motorcycle test. Further enquires revealed that I had omitted to send off my pass certificate (I still had it) and hence I could not legally ride (BUGGER). So I put myself on a Direct Access 4 day course, which included all the tests and a licence at the end. I was amazed by how things had changed over 20 years. In 1984, the examiner was on foot and after riding around the block a couple of times and doing an emergency stop, I had passed!

By 2004, the level of proficiency and skill required to pass a modern test made it very challenging, even for a so called ‘road savvy’ experienced rider as I considered myself to be. Interestingly enough during one of the sessions a lady came to see the tutor and asked whom was in charge. He said “I am, why do you want to know?” She said that she wanted to thank him for excellent work. Of course he didn’t understand what she was on about. She stated that she was a matron at the local hospital’s orthopaedic ward. 15 years ago 85% of her beds were taken by the results from biking accidents (the non-fatal ones), she said that it is now less than 15%. She puts this down to better standards of education for new motorbike riders. This was in the UK. I do not know how representative her observations are/were in relation to other areas/countries however it was quite surprising.

The fact that I was stupid enough not to sent off my pass certificate in 1984 may well have saved my life (though tomorrow is another day). As I said at the start, I am probably as close to the stereo-type as you will get. I like to think I am my age makes me fairly cautious and sensible in the decisions I make on the road however I do regularly like to push through the gears and ‘feel the force’ up to around 150kph when the road allows for it (in the UK it would be >200kph). As has already been stated, it only takes one mistake and that dowdy bloke spinning that wheel to the ‘DEATH’ wedge may one day be lurking in the bushes.

I guess what I am saying is that I do understand some of the points that the program was attempting to make however it failed to acknowledge that there are many different types of riders. Referring to all riders as 'them' and being 'difficult to educate' was not constructive. I am always looking to improve my riding skills. Some cruiser riders I know really shouldn’t ride cruisers. Showing off the wear on the bike from leaning too far (for a cruiser) is just plain silly. We all just need to equip ourselves with the best knowledge and tools to cope with as much as what the road might throw at us as possible. I include defensive riding to cope with ignorant car drivers as part of the essential tools. There is no point in being ‘in the right’ if it might kill you.

BTW: My new bike has ABS - my wife made it a condition of purchase. I have yet to feel it kick in however it is there to help avoid that one off potential life ending emergency.

Safe riding to all.

[James Deuce]

do i really have to point out that any bike with some customized exhaust has the potential to be extremely loud?
Pink stickers are a wonderful thing.

[dipshit]

Im not saying he wasnt at fault. BUT basing your conclusion on why he crashed on some half arsed piece of evidence like that is ridiculous!

Reread what I said.... "I bet you a dozen other motorcycles made it through that corner ok that day. A factor that didn't help the rider was like the car driver who was passed by the bike at a high rate of speed said... "I could hear him coming before he even passed me!""

[Number One]

I felt it was disrespectful to Craig and his family.Craig wasn't in a midlife crisis,he's ridden all his life,so you can't say he's returning to riding,he could ride very well,and to top it all off,he was a fucking nice guy,from a nice family.
I thought that also. To me they talked about the issue of 'mid lifers getting back on without getting some instructions/refreshing their skills' but then they focussed on Craig - I think they kept missing what their point was and I didn't much like Pauls attitude either...he was like a wee dog that wants a fight but can't quite figure out who to pick it with.

[Naki Rat]

......and I didn't much like Pauls attitude either...he was like a wee dog that wants a fight but can't quite figure out who to pick it with.

The attitude and the IQ of a Pekinese - pretty accurate summation :niceone:

[Reckless]

No, the point is - ride to the fucking conditions.

Nowhere did I say you shouldn't "ride to the fucking conditions" as you put it. Where did you read that! I said I thought that statement was starting to be used as an excuse for poor roads but of coarse we should try not to exceed our ability or out ride the conditions!
Jeepers talk about extreme mate?? I can only imagine don't you agree our roads could be much better??

I also agree with some of your comments about Graig. I can't remember anyone saying in the item that he'd only just bought the bike because of a mid life crisis attack! It was a poor example on their part I thought.

[Crasherfromwayback]

So you base what is going on in this country on your own personal experiences..?? In other words you haven't got a f#ing clue and are just talking shit.




It isn't the biggest problem and why so many motorcyclists are killing themselves every weekend.

Fuck you are THE man! Love you to share your riding wisom with me at some stage. I reckon I could learn a shitload from you. Seeing as I don't have a fucking clue an all. And me talking shit? Mate...you should carry a roll of toilet paper with you.

[Katman]

Fuck you are THE man! Love you to share your riding wisom with me at some stage. I reckon I could learn a shitload from you. Seeing as I don't have a fucking clue an all. And me talking shit? Mate...you should carry a roll of toilet paper with you.

As has been said, on one hand you speak a lot of sense on the TV but suddenly, when you realise that it goes against what the mob want to hear, you suddenly change your tune and tow the Brotherhood line.

Sounds like fuck all of a clue to me.

[doc]

This is becoming a bit like "talk back rider". :eek:

Originally before this, the family mentioned in the paper that he was a good rider and you could hear him before they saw him . Sort of like they knew it was him cos of the sound of the bike. I took it to mean that he was a fast rider

He wasn't a BAB and everyone is saying he was a good rider.

What the fark makes a good rider is pure rhetoric. Everyone has a different opinion. Just cos you are fast don't earn my respect. Well on the road anyway. Stoudy, Smith, Love, Sloane etc are good riders in my view, but I've no idea what they are like on the road ,but if they rode like they do on the track on the road. I'd think they were "bloody idiots". Not good riders at all

[Genestho]

In reference to Doc's comment...
An old friend who raced the circuits this year said years ago " I race on the track because I like to go loose and faast, I dont need pulling over by the cops, and theres no oncoming traffic!" And he does. (No hes not on KB!)

a good endorsement for trackdays...eh?

[Viscount Montgomery]

50/50 half their fault and half yours, this is all a croc of shit, keep eyes on road and hope the cars and trucks don't cross the centreline and hit you is about all you can fucken do, apart from oil or diesel, sounds like all this other hoon type shit is their own fault

[WilDun]

Crasherfromwayback

Your name says it all, - you are not the sort of guy they were talking about in the programme, - you're much worse than that, - you obviously still haven't learnt the fundamentals of self preservation, and you can't string a sentence together without swearing at least 5 times,( because of your inability to find the necessary words).

It was only a lighthearted debate, basically slinging off at "old guys" whose ego overcame their ability, and also at the Harley for it's inability to corner properly and how it needed special techniques to manage. - All unfortunately sad but true!

The guy representing the bikers also made some balanced "home truth" statements!

[Katman]

keep eyes on road and hope the cars and trucks don't cross the centreline and hit you

What about the motorcycles?

[Genestho]

This is becoming a bit like "talk back rider". :eek:



Kinda nice to have a chance for input though eh? Doesn't need to become personal and negative:niceone:

Thought maybe why the story was attached is because they wanted to portray the affect of a Motorcycling fatality to the viewers, and I recon you're right Dipshit, timing.
Also that maybe even best riders get cleaned up....

[WilDun]

See what I mean?

[Maha]

Crasherfromwayback

Your name says it all, - you are not the sort of guy they were talking about in the programme, - you're much worse than that, - you obviously still haven't learnt the fundamentals of self preservation, and you can't string a sentence together without swearing at least 5 times,( because of your inability to find the necessary words).

It was only a lighthearted debate, basically slinging off at "old guys" whose ego overcame their ability, and also at the Harley for it's inability to corner properly and how it needed special techniques to manage. - All unfortunately sad but true!

The guy representing the bikers also made some balanced "home truth" statements!

This message was brought to by the Honourable Phil Goff.

[WilDun]

yes I do - and while you're at it say something sensible (if you can!)

[WilDun]

Won't hold my breath though!

[WilDun]

Talk about "boy racers" - I now consider them to be quite intelligent!

[naphazoline]

One thing i feel is worth mentioning,is how bigger percentage of the bike accidents are on farm bikes???

There seems to be an increase in ATV accidents.

[Katman]

One thing i feel is worth mentioning,is how bigger percentage of the bike accidents are on farm bikes???

There seems to be an increase in ATV accidents.

Here, grab this straw......

[twotyred]

One thing i feel is worth mentioning,is how bigger percentage of the bike accidents are on farm bikes???

There seems to be an increase in ATV accidents.

bloody mid-life crisis farmers!,obviously not riding to the conditions!:angry2:

[naphazoline]

Here, grab this straw......

PFFT....:rolleyes: :tugger:

[MarkH]

It's all in here...
www.transport.govt.nz/assets/NewPDFs/Motorcycle-Crash-Factsheet.pdf

The problem is that it's not all in there, there is an incredible amount of relevant information missing. Worst of all there is so much that I would personally love to know that is missing :crybaby:

According to the fact sheet 90% of motorcycle fatalities are males - I would love to know how many kms per year are ridden by males and how many are ridden by females. It wouldn't surprise me if only 10% as many kms were ridden by females. (I am talking about total kms per year between all males in the country vs the same for females). I would also like to know the same info for every demographic mentioned. If more kms of riding is done by blokes over 30 then that would explain why they make up such a large number of deaths. Without this information it is hard to say if they are less skilled or more reckless, since this information is not available there is clearly a lot of supposition without supporting evidence.


Maybe because he happened to of died and made the newspapers around the time the producers decided to put the story together... so he was the one they could interview family and show footage of the funeral etc. Timing.

Yep - timing :yes: but relevance? :no:

[WilDun]

Just as well.

I always knew my presence here was destined to offend someone.

Who would have thought it would take so long?

:whistle:

Who did you offend? - you're getting a bit full of your importance in the scheme of things!

[Mom]

Crasherfromwayback

Your name says it all, - you are not the sort of guy they were talking about in the programme, - you're much worse than that, - you obviously still haven't learnt the fundamentals of self preservation, and you can't string a sentence together without swearing at least 5 times,( because of your inability to find the necessary words).

It was only a lighthearted debate, basically slinging off at "old guys" whose ego overcame their ability, and also at the Harley for it's inability to corner properly and how it needed special techniques to manage. - All unfortunately sad but true!

The guy representing the bikers also made some balanced "home truth" statements!


Ok, so you should really know that the guy interviewed on close up was none other than Crasherfromwayback :jerry: :jerry:

NO jokes either mate, how does it feel to have your boot down your throat?

[doc]

Crasherfromwayback

Your name says it all, - you are not the sort of guy they were talking about in the programme, - you're much worse than that, - you obviously still haven't learnt the fundamentals of self preservation, and you can't string a sentence together without swearing at least 5 times,( because of your inability to find the necessary words).

It was only a lighthearted debate, basically slinging off at "old guys" whose ego overcame their ability, and also at the Harley for it's inability to corner properly and how it needed special techniques to manage. - All unfortunately sad but true!

The guy representing the bikers also made some balanced "home truth" statements!

I've blinged Crash to post a pic of him racing a Hardley to show you that they don't handle. :soon:

[Pussy]

I've blinged Crash to post a pic of him racing a Hardley to show you that they don't handle. :soon:

VERY good pic of Pete (crasherfromwayback) on his profile page, doc.

Of course Pete can't ride...... :whistle:

[10bikekid]

Sorry to Chime in like this and talking about the subject,
But its a bit of a hard Graft for some of us motorcyclist as the nature of the pastime can be somewhat aggressive and adrenalized one can grow horns on a bike and of course there's the Alpha male competitiveness, perhaps the cops are doing us all a favour by putting the Fear of Licence and Financial loss into us.
I can usually tell the Guys that haven't experienced that lately as they whiz past me in some 80k area out the back of Riverhead at 140 not realizing that if Pinged bye bye freedom for 6 months,

The answer, perhaps motard sgles and Harleys or Therapy for self control ??

Yer I know, ride to the conditions, think Ill have to get Theropy then, even though I ride the above type Bikes

[doc]

VERY good pic of Pete (crasherfromwayback) on his profile page, doc.

Of course Pete can't ride...... :whistle:


I knew that :Oops:

[cs363]

VERY good pic of Pete (crasherfromwayback) on his profile page, doc.

Of course Pete can't ride...... :whistle:



He sure can sift though!! Pete would easily be the biggest sifter I've ever met....... :whistle:

[Mom]

Of course Pete can't ride...... :whistle:


I knew that :Oops:

I heard he crashes lots and lots too :yes:


He sure can sift though!! Pete would easily be the biggest sifter I've ever met....... :whistle:

He bruises well too I think :laugh:

[AD345]

Well, rhis thread has, once again, proved that I am mere seconds away from death.

Born again biker (ownership gap from 20's to 40's), big assed cruiser (AND its an American V-twin!!!), no interest in any type of riding course, no flouro gear - hell some times I don't even wear a jacket. I generally only ride on the weekends in a pack with bikers of a similar age (not all BABs tho) and I delude myself with secret images of being bad-ass.

I may actually already be dead.

[10bikekid]

Well, rhis thread has, once again, proved that I am mere seconds away from death.

Born again biker (ownership gap from 20's to 40's), big assed cruiser (AND its an American V-twin!!!), no interest in any type of riding course, no flouro gear - hell some times I don't even wear a jacket. I generally only ride on the weekends in a pack with bikers of a similar age (not all BABs tho) and I delude myself with secret images of being bad-ass.

I may actually already be dead.
Tips to avoid such a thing from a fellow American twin rider ( not as nice as yours though )
Brake early, go in slow, come out fast as long as its not wet, watch for mid corner bumps they are not your friend, concentrate or else ride slow cause if you go in to fast by mistake:eek: your gona have to hang off it real quick or put your foot out like a dirt bike rider to haul that beast around, O and don't ride with sports bikes unless their slow or your Fredy Merkal,

As my Badges say, Ride to Live

PS, Headlight on full Beam during the day compensates for Black leathers as fluro is not an option, Chow

[AllanB]

I may actually already be dead.

A easy way to check - after you die you get stiff - are you stiff dude? :lol::lol::lol:

[AllanB]

go in slow, come out fast as long as its not wet, watch for mid corner bumps they are not your friend, concentrate or else ride slow cause if you go in to fast by mistake:eek: your gona have to hang off it real quick or put your foot out like a dirt bike rider to haul that beast around

What/who are you riding dude? - that reads like a letter to a porn magazine....:laugh:

So it's true eh Harleys are like sex......

[AD345]

Tips to avoid such a thing from a fellow American twin rider ( not as nice as yours though )
Brake early, go in slow, come out fast as long as its not wet, watch for mid corner bumps they are not your friend, concentrate or else ride slow cause if you go in to fast by mistake:eek: your gona have to hang off it real quick or put your foot out like a dirt bike rider to haul that beast around, O and don't ride with sports bikes unless their slow or your Fredy Merkal,

As my Badges say, Ride to Live

PS, Headlight on full Beam during the day compensates for Black leathers as fluro is not an option, Chow

I sometimes brake before I even see the corner

I got a cruiser cos I want ride slow.........you know..cruise

Sportsbikes don't WANT to ride with me

I think headlights on full is a bad idea - mine are always on though, just not on full.

[AD345]

A easy way to check - after you die you get stiff - are you stiff dude? :lol::lol::lol:


How badly do ya want to know big guy? :love:

[3umph]

PS, Headlight on full Beam during the day compensates for Black leathers as fluro is not an option, Chow

ride on full beam.... WTF and piss people off... yeah right

Ride with light on but not on full beam... a mate of mine rides on full and it really fucks me of it he is behind me and in my mirrors....

[cs363]

ride on full beam.... WTF and piss people off... yeah right

Ride with light on but not on full beam... a mate of mine rides on full and it really fucks me of it he is behind me and in my mirrors....


X2 Pretty good way to piss everyone in the proximity off :wacko:

[cs363]

How badly do ya want to know big guy? :love:


Don't encourage him, you know he's a Honda rider.... :rofl:

[malfunconz]

ten bike kid you just so sensible . i can say that as a return 20-40 riding along at hundred clicks i wonder how the f%$k i ever survived my youth to have another go . i sure as hell never gave a toss what the f&*k would have happened if i came a cropper at twenty but i sure as hell think bout it now i am closer to fifty . and yeh i will look out for the mid corner bumps .

[malfunconz]

any way a comment on the show , it did appear to me it was just an opportunaty to get phil goof ... i mean goff ...on the tele as he is a rating dud and being kind to small animals they draged him into a sensational story to attempt to show his image as being a little hip as opposed to the exitable screaming tosser he is .... he reverted to a gigling dick in the later part of the segment anyway . go all you mid lifers and encourage all ya mates to get out on any thing with two wheels .

[chrispy121]

did anyone see the report on TV1 close up the other night about the older bikers dying on the roads?
a couple of things really sparked my attention during the programe they had ministers of Parliment riding up on bike with no helmets on out side of parliment interesting I thought they can get away with this.the other was the issue of what to do to reduce the road toll.

Lately every ride I have been on there has been unsignposted roadworks and loose gravel on the roads perhaps cleaning this up may help with reducing the motorcycle accidents in this country.

I find it really ironic that they look at redusing the road toll for motorbike while they stil use cheese cutter barriers on our motorways.

your thoughts guys?

[Crasherfromwayback]

As has been said, on one hand you speak a lot of sense on the TV but suddenly, when you realise that it goes against what the mob want to hear, you suddenly change your tune and tow the Brotherhood line.
Sounds like fuck all of a clue to me.

Really? You obviously don't know me at all. I don't...and never have given a toss what people want to hear. I'll happily say what I think anytime to anyone.

So if you think I change my tune to get bling...votes...or friendship from people...you're a simple fuck. I've wasted time reading some of the total shit you've posted. You're a dreamer of the worst kind.


Crasherfromwayback

Your name says it all, - you are not the sort of guy they were talking about in the programme, - you're much worse than that, - you obviously still haven't learnt the fundamentals of self preservation, and you can't string a sentence together without swearing at least 5 times,( because of your inability to find the necessary words).

It was only a lighthearted debate, basically slinging off at "old guys" whose ego overcame their ability, and also at the Harley for it's inability to corner properly and how it needed special techniques to manage. - All unfortunately sad but true!

The guy representing the bikers also made some balanced "home truth" statements!


Really? I've learnt the fundamentals of self preservation don't you worry.

And if you think Harleys have an inability to corner properly...you've either not ridden one or you simply can't ride for shit. There's no special techniques you need to know about riding a Harley...certainly no more so than a 300kg Japanese bike. It's called physics. You have a basic grasp of physics yeah?

If you'd like to come and see me we'll get indentical Harleys out for a wee ride.

I reckon we'll soon see who knows what about self preservation.

[awayatc]

According to the fact sheet 90% of motorcycle fatalities are males - I would love to know how many kms per year are ridden by males and how many are ridden by females. It wouldn't surprise me if only 10% as many kms were ridden by females. (I am talking about total kms per year between all males in the country vs the same for females).



Yep - timing :yes: but relevance? :no:


I think I found your relevance......
The younger ones were killing themselves by riding to fast TOWARDS their females.......

The older ones after 20 years or so, are killing themselves riding away from those same females.........


Some apparently can't get away fast enough.........

[chrispy121]

that Mp's can ride bike on Parliment grounds with out helmets?
one law for us and one for them( I will still keep wearing my helmet of course)
but not the best example to set when trying to reduce motorcycle fatalities

[dipshit]

Fuck you are THE man! Love you to share your riding wisom with me at some stage. I reckon I could learn a shitload from you. Seeing as I don't have a fucking clue an all. And me talking shit? Mate...you should carry a roll of toilet paper with you.

Blah blah blah...

So did you or didn't you know that three-quarters of fatal motorcycle accidents in NZ were rider error..??

And if you did know this how would "Educate the FUCKING DRIVERS OF CARS" help..??

[dipshit]

That must be why they were eluding to harley rider accidents then. I can here them coming a mile away!

Unlike Harleys - when you are on the loud pedal on a Busa you are moving!

[oldrider]

This thread is loosing it's relavance. :doh: John.

[Maha]

that Mp's can ride bike on Parliment grounds with out helmets?
one law for us and one for them( I will still keep wearing my helmet of course)
but not the best example to set when trying to reduce motorcycle fatalities

Yesterday I rode 100mts with my jacket undone/no gloves and helmet on but not done up...(thank god cameras weren't around :eek:) and I survived the trip. Probably about the same distance (if not more) that those MP's did. I must say though, it felt weird, even for a short distance.

[WilDun]

Really? I've learnt the fundamentals of self preservation don't you worry.


If you'd like to come and see me we'll get indentical Harleys out for a wee ride.

I reckon we'll soon see who knows what about self preservation.


Wish you'd change that name, -too cumbersome!

I've just come into this biker forum and of course I had to take on the "giant amongst bikers" (unwittingly), so I do apologise for my ignorance.

Yes, you could ride rings around me, because I don't ride bikes anymore, in fact I am unable to throw a leg over one, I certainly would like to give your challenge ago, but can't - long story.....

You must admit though that bikes are inherently dangerous - I hate people telling me that but it's true! and you must admit there are a lot of knobs out there riding them, - like the guy (I hope he sees this) going over the Pakuranga bridge in the rush hour weaving his way through the traffic at high speed, laying it right over as he weaves in front of you, then doing a front wheelstand at the lights, - very skillful but a complete and utter airhead!

[WilDun]

And.... The string of Sunday riders on Harleys passing nose to tail traffic in the Karangahake Gorge on the way to Waihi, - (just had to get past), a couple at the tail end almost collecting oncoming cars. Then...then, when I came round a corner (about 2 kilometres further on, they were all parked up at the pub!! - all that passing for nothing!

[WilDun]

bikers get a bad image because of this sort of stuff, I always defend them and get abuse for it - they do need to clean up their image, - it's true, they will be priced off the roads (insurance etc) if these clowns don't stop.

[Katman]

You must admit though that bikes are inherently dangerous

No they're not.

Some motorcyclists are inherently dangerous and motorcycling has some inherent risks.

Motorcycles on their own have no inherent danger at all. (Unless it happens to fall off it's sidestand onto you).

[dipshit]

it's true, they will be priced off the roads (insurance etc) if these clowns don't stop.

But it won't stop as long as they get around with their heads up their own backsides thinking they are shit hot and blame everything on car drivers and roads.

[WilDun]

One more incident, then I'll shut up!
Last time I rode a bike, (a little toy kawasaki 100), I was attacked by a dog and went over the bars and broke my knee.
I was sitting on a bench up in Auckland with my knee in plaster - a lady sat down beside me and said, "that looks bad, - what happened?" - I said, " got attacked by a mongrel and knocked off my bike" - guess what she said, "BLOODY MOTORBIKES!"
Isn't that the perception by the public we have to get rid of?!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Blah blah blah...

So did you or didn't you know that three-quarters of fatal motorcycle accidents in NZ were rider error..??

And if you did know this how would "Educate the FUCKING DRIVERS OF CARS" help..??

I simply think that stat is bollocks. Example: A few weeks ago...I had a guy run a red light, and I ended up putting the thing down. He did a runner. Now while I wasn't hurt...that accident gets listed as a single bike acc. Rider at fault. But it ain't see. THAT's how stats get lopsided. And I think that particular car driver should be EDUCATED MOST CERTAINLY.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Wish you'd change that name, -too cumbersome!

I've just come into this biker forum and of course I had to take on the "giant amongst bikers" (unwittingly), so I do apologise for my ignorance.

Yes, you could ride rings around me, because I don't ride bikes anymore, in fact I am unable to throw a leg over one, I certainly would like to give your challenge ago, but can't - long story.....

You must admit though that bikes are inherently dangerous - I hate people telling me that but it's true! and you must admit there are a lot of knobs out there riding them, - like the guy (I hope he sees this) going over the Pakuranga bridge in the rush hour weaving his way through the traffic at high speed, laying it right over as he weaves in front of you, then doing a front wheelstand at the lights, - very skillful but a complete and utter airhead!

Sorry...the name stays! I'm no giant...I've simply been round a long time and ridden all sorts of things. No need for an apology. I for one would never disagree that bikes CAN be dangerous. And what I said wasn't about riding rings round you. It was if we rode together you'd see that on he street...I don't do silly risks. Sorry to hear you can't ride now.

Pete

[WilDun]

Motorcycles on their own have no inherent danger at all.

Yeah? - what about those tiny Chinese mini chopper contraptions - on the road?

[WilDun]

Ok, Pete, nice to meet you, - sorry I dived in prematurely, without reading things up like I should have done!

[dipshit]

A few weeks ago...I had a guy run a red light, and I ended up putting the thing down.

Well Mr crashalot, maybe you're not as good a rider as you think you are.

[Maha]

This thread is loosing it's relavance. :doh: John.

Agreed, its turned into (in good ole' KB fashion) Chinese Whispers....:psst:

Starting with.... returning rider buying big bikes and crashing....onto Harley Bashing and then shock horror...personal attackes!!!

[PrincessBandit]

I found the whole item a bit of a "what was that all about?" issue. Paul Henry only confirmed his lack of credibility with his dumbshit "We'll be the judge of that" comment (in conspiracy with the woman). Why was she even there? She didn't serve any purpose other tban making noise.

The media in general came across poorly giving only a narrow, blinkered view of a much larger picture; showing in this instance a bigotted and condescending view of a sizeable sector of the New Zealand community.

If you took it completely at face value your conclusions would be:
all men who ride motorcycles are only doing so due to midlife crisis and wanting to recapture their fading youth; women don't feature in the mix anywhere - we don't ride (therefore certainly don't have accidents...); bikers are 50% responsible for their own accidents (the stat quoted was 50% their own fault, and 50% other parties); and oh, it's ok to ride without a helmet cos Hone Harawira did!!

Yeah, sounds stupid when read like that, but for anyone not thinking indepth about the issue the superficial presentation came across like that to me.

I thought Paul Henry was insulting and condescending; and the woman shrink was laughable.

[WilDun]

I thought Paul Henry was insulting and condescending; and the woman shrink was laughable.

That's always the case with Paul Henry! that's how he stays on TV!

But the fact that this subject got aired on TV at all, is a worry!

[YellowDog]

No they're not.

Some motorcyclists are inherently dangerous and motorcycling has some inherent risks.

Motorcycles on their own have no inherent danger at all. (Unless it happens to fall off it's sidestand onto you).
BIKES ARE NOT INHERENTLY DANGEROUS!!!

95% of modern bikes are extremely well made and very safe. Consderable better made and safer than most cars. IMO - Cars are far more dangerous however it is the potential for resulting serious injury that is the main issue.

It is the choices that riders and other road users make that can cause dangerous situations. If you ride carefully and follow all of the dos and don'ts, then you will be safe. Bored, but safe. There is some middle ground here. The guy riding up from Piha last month crossing the white line on the bend as I approached in a car from the opposite direction either made a bad choice or a potentially fatal mistake. If he was in a car, the potential for a serious injury would have been reduced somewhat. In this situation, the biker was able to immediately swerve to slightly adjust his line. A car could not have done this, so the bike in this situation was was safer than if he was in a car. If an collision had occurred, then the situation would be quickly reversed (unless of course the car had gone over the edge).

I consider that I would have to spend a great deal of money on a car to get comparable levels of quality, safety, and ability as I have on my bike. Why don't you you instead compare the crash stats for high powered bike riders with those driving performance cars.

'Granny Grimble' doing 30kph in her Morris Minor should not be included in the averages. Just count the car hoons with the bikers and see who has more accidents (not deaths). A lot of such car accidents are because the cars are not well maintained and have been unprofessionally modified by kids. This is not a common scenario amongst the biker community where safety carries considerably greater importance.

A teenager with no insurance, no registration, and 350Bhp under the bonnet is a far bigger problem for the country.

[AllanB]

But the fact that this subject got aired on TV at all, is a worry!

What? - are you an ostrich by any chance?

Which part of 'one biker dying every 5 days this year' did not concern you?

Ignoring the 'how' of their deaths (rider or third pary) thats some serious shit.

[Katman]

BIKES ARE NOT INHERENTLY DANGEROUS!!!

Why don't you.........

If your post was directed at me, did you even read my post?

:wacko:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Well Mr crashalot, maybe you're not as good a rider as you think you are.

Well as I've always said...no matter ho long you've been riding you're still always learning. Next time you're up this way...I'd love you to give me some lessons.

[YellowDog]

Hey Katman, no my post wan't directed at you. I thought I was agreeing with you and endorsing what you were saying. No offence intended.

[MSTRS]

After wading through this enormous thread, 2 things struck me...
1. Motorcyclists can be every bit as bigotted and one-eyed as the people 'we' accuse as being so, and
2. No-one has commented that the program, being aimed at the general viewing public (who don't ride), simply confirmed that public's belief that bikers bring it all on themselves.


No they're not. Some motorcyclists are inherently dangerous and motorcycling has some inherent risks. Motorcycles on their own have no inherent danger at all. (Unless it happens to fall off it's sidestand onto you).
Finally, some sense...I can almost hear CFWB saying that in his interview. But of course, it didn't present the desired picture.

[WilDun]

thats some serious shit.

Look, read it again, that's what I'm saying!!

[WilDun]

ALLAN, - They wouldn't have aired it if there wasn't any danger or at least a glimmer of truth in it.

[Ocean1]

ALLAN, - They wouldn't have aired it if there wasn't any danger or at least a glimmer of truth in it.


:laugh::laugh::laugh:



:rolleyes:



:laugh:





*snigger*

[MSTRS]

ALLAN, - They wouldn't have aired it if there wasn't any danger or at least a glimmer of truth in it.

Actually, they aired it to reaffirm the sanctimonious and sage noddings of 98% of the population, and the humour involved for the other 2%.
Media and truth are not intimately acquainted....

[WilDun]

OCEAN,
Yes? - No? - well,that was a useful comment! but then maybe thats all you're capable of saying? - guess doing pretty pictures is much easier, - eh?.

[WilDun]

Actually, they aired it to reaffirm the sanctimonious and sage noddings of 98% of the population, and the humour involved for the other 2%.
Media and truth are not intimately acquainted....

I like motorcycles a lot, but to be honest things are not looking good for bikers with the bad publicity which the brainless hoons such as I mentioned earlier want to perpetuate, (they are seen in much the same light as the "boy racers")
- but then I guess I was a little hair brained in my youth too! - I didn't have the power underneath me which you find available today though!

I dunno about 98% of the general public thinking like that, but many do, I know - that isn't good

Yes you're dead right about the media!

[MSTRS]

I like motorcycles a lot, but to be honest things are not looking good for bikers with the bad publicity which the brainless hoons such as I mentioned earlier want to perpetuate, (they are seen in much the same light as the "boy racers")
- but then I guess I was a little hair brained in my youth too! - I didn't have the power underneath me which you find available today though!

I dunno about 98% of the general public thinking like that, but many do, I know - that isn't good

Yes you're dead right about the media!

Can't draw parallels between bikers and boi racers...different animals altogether.

*bullshit stats, but you get the idea*...100% of boi racers are idiots - 2% of bikers are idiots.

That's why anything on TV like that crap the other night is bad news...because the unsaid, but obvious, conclusion is that we are all the same as boi racers. And using the death in Taranaki as a illustration was typical (note how they covered themselves by mentioning the diesel spill,? yet it was almost like a sotto voce aside, in the hope it would be missed).

And yes, I am dead right. Thank you for noticing...

[Katman]

Can't draw parallels between bikers and boi racers...



A large proportion of the general public do exactly that (quite regardless of the article on TV the other night).

[MSTRS]

Now, I'm not saying that the biker who was killed was squeaky clean, whatever he was doing played a part. BUT how many of us that watched saw the long patch of tar bleed leading up to the crash site? And just knew that there was a big part of what happened? And how many car drivers saw the same thing? And never clicked as to the effect? Because, in general, 'they' are not affected by this major problem.
In HB we have our share of this shit, but a recent trip I did to Taranaki shocked me as to the extent of it there. Is the cause massive truck movements of the milk tanker variety?
The slightest bit of damp on this crap, and the unwary motorcyclist is dead meat. But the stats will only reflect 'single vehicle motorcycle fatality'. So Johnny Careful-But-Unlucky is now a hoon.

[WilDun]

Can't draw parallels between bikers and boi racers
*bullshit stats, but you get the idea*...100% of boi racers are idiots - 2% of bikers are idiots.
.

No, you can't draw any parallels there, nor can I, but the general public can and the general public's perception of how things are is what carries the weight!

The way to stop that perception is to sort out that "2%" who most certainly are going to make things more expensive for the rest.

[MSTRS]

Actually, they aired it to reaffirm the sanctimonious and sage noddings of 98% of the population, and the humour involved for the other 2%.
Media and truth are not intimately acquainted....


A large proportion of the general public do exactly that (quite regardless of the article on TV the other night).

Did you miss that bit?

[WilDun]

The slightest bit of damp on this crap, and the unwary motorcyclist is dead meat.
.

To me,what this shows is that bikes are inherently more dangerous than cars, - deep down we all know this and we do learn (well most of us do) to hone our riding techniques and learn to read road surfaces to avoid these things happening, but as they say, shit sometimes happens, - as in this case.

Flying light aircraft is also dangerous, - but good inspection skills, piloting skills and commonsense (and rules) overcomes this, whereas, on a bike you are really free as the breeze and even f-wits are allowed to ride!

[WilDun]

A psychiatric assessment might be in order sometimes!

[WilDun]

Did you miss that bit?

Must've done! - well, I'm old - I've got an excuse!

[BMWST?]

Blah blah blah...

So did you or didn't you know that three-quarters of fatal motorcycle accidents in NZ were rider error..??

And if you did know this how would "Educate the FUCKING DRIVERS OF CARS" help..??

it could help the other twenty five percent!

[BMWST?]

that Mp's can ride bike on Parliment grounds with out helmets?


parliament grounds is not a road

[BMWST?]

Agreed, its turned into (in good ole' KB fashion) Chinese Whispers....:psst:

Starting with.... returning rider buying big bikes and crashing....onto Harley Bashing and then shock horror...personal attackes!!!

the harley bashing started on tv actually