Buying a dual purpose bike [Archive]

chasio

20th March 2009, 11:53

Well it’s all on :clap:

After a brief bout of excitement over an XR600 a few months ago - sadly cut short by an unexpected tax bill - I have budget for my first bike. I’m not limited to a 250 as I have a full license courtesy of 15 incident-free months and 9000kms on a 200cc Vespa.

I’m going to run both for a few months while I get sorted, then sell the scooter in early summer. I’d prefer to keep both (as was the plan with XR) but can’t afford to. So I have to get a machine that will do a trouble free daily commute of 20kms each way in Auckland traffic (including filtering) as well as providing access to some more interesting roads and hopefully some multi-day touring.

Budget is about $5k, maybe $6k at a push. Once my skills improve I may look to add a more dirt capable machine e.g. KLX but don’t tell Mrs Chasio (though I’m sure she has her suspicions already) :)

Right now I’m thinking that I’ll go for one of:

Freewind XF650 – Probably my first choice for the right one (not least as seat can go down while I get used to it) but they seem to come up infrequently. But there is one here (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=203852531) already quite well set up.

KLE500 - I quite like the idea of a twin in traffic and the KLE’s looks (call me weird) but they seem to be disliked for some reason. This one (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=208307107) is low kms but a bit far in Whangarei.

Pegaso – Preferable to me over F650 with lower seat and not being a BMW; but not the Cube as I have read reports of high maintenance costs and later models will be too pricey, lovely as they are. If I’d had $9k and been quick enough I know a beauty went through here recently, but it was too pricey for me.

F650 - Not so keen on BMW and I’d prefer a post 2000 F650GS for refinement, but only high mileage ones are available around my budget

I’ve ruled out the Canyon on parts and maintenance issues and the KLR on height (I’m 1.78 and essentially an old noob) and price for a later model one. The XT600/660 is a maybe but I suspect would have similar challenges to a KLR.

DR650’s are seen as the weapon of choice by many, but commuting and touring comfort is going to be more important than trail ability and I also believe I’d struggle with my budget for a K7 or later with reasonable mileage. I could be persuaded by a good one, I guess.

I can do oil and pad changes and the like, but am not going to be up for any properly skilled work. I need something low maintenance that will hopefully work every day. I also know I need to sit on a few to figure out fit and comfort but I probably need another bike lesson before I take one out!

So I have two questions:
- Does my shortlist make sense given my expected requirements?
- Is anyone local and willing enough to help me out by looking over the Freewind in Kaiwaka and/or KLE in Whangarei?

Cheers

Chasio

Sidewinder

20th March 2009, 11:57

get a dr650 there bang for buck and have enuf top end on the road and you can pick them up cheap secondhand

Eddieb

20th March 2009, 12:05

Why only a K7 or later DR if you are willing to go earlier in other models?

Buy one, ride it, love it, they haven't changed in years that I am aware of so I don't see any advantage in going for a K7.

And you won't have to upgrade later cause it'll do everything.

nallac

20th March 2009, 12:08

as sidewinder has said a Dr650 would be my choice(having owned one before)
but in saying that, the freewind looks like a well set up machine for that price.

I would/will check it out for you if i can get a chance to get away from the kids.
haven't had a chance to check out Kaiwaka suzi since they opened..

chasio

20th March 2009, 12:09

awayatc

20th March 2009, 12:10

My Aprilia Pegaso has 25000 kms on the clock and is in excellent condition ....I might let it go for $6000......

I am very happy with my Pegaso....it is indeed more road oriented then the DR 650 and the like.
It tops out at 180, but can happily sit at 120/140 all day.
Seating position, handling braking etc are a joy.
Starts always on first push of the button and has a lovely deep twin exhaust sound.
Lighter then the BMW, better looking and way more fun to ride.
Only downfall is the Fuelconsumption (15 km per liter) which seems to be on par with DR 650, but the BMW uses far less.
Parts are not always that easy to get.....
Have got 2 bikes at the moment and I will have to sell one of them at some stage....
Still undecided, since the Aprilia is so easy to live with...

clint640

20th March 2009, 12:23

Good luck mate, shopping for a bike is fun, you are looking at some pretty sensible choices for your intended use, that Freewind could be a good deal. Also remember that a DR650 with a redone seat & a screen fitted is functionally pretty similar to the Freewind, the DR won't look as purdy, but then again it won't get as scratched & broken if you dump it on gravel.

I don't think there's much wrong with a KLE500, It's just that they never sold em in the 'States so you don't hear much about them. That one looks like quite good value considering the low kms.

Cheers
Clint

chasio

20th March 2009, 12:39

Thanks for your replies - a couple of PM's will follow after work!

Garry.W

20th March 2009, 13:31

I'd take a KLE over the Freewind any day.

Decide what you'll use the bike most for. If it's more commuting than anything else a twin is a good idea. The KLE will be good for longer trips away as well and still quite capable going adventuring. Brand new they we only about $8k until Kawaski stopped importing them here last year, parts are still widely available these models (in fact they have to be for another 7 years) and if you've found one that suits your budget, then that's a bonus.

Garry

Crisis management

20th March 2009, 13:42

I'm not going to suggest any particular bike but maybe a query as to the use you expect to put it to. If it's mostly sealed road and the odd gravel road then get a "roady" bike, if it's gravel, beaches and any farm tracks etc you can get to then look to an "off road" bike. Bear in mind that there is a teeny chance (yeah, right) that it will get biffed over a bank or down a gravel road fairly soon after you get your paws on it, so consider whether it is a bike that will wear its scars in public or will be repaired & repainted pronto.

Maybe that decision is a bit of a big ask at this stage of your adventure riding career so, if your not sure, get a cheap 250 "trail" type bike and thrash that around the place until you can decide.

socialites

20th March 2009, 13:55

Fair question - I thought the K7 had some useful improvements e.g. seat but as you can tell, I'm no expert. Yes I could go older but I'd prefer lowish mileage.

Plus it's that old question of screen & tank upgrades to get what the Freewind (I know very similar underneath) already has.

Hey Chasio, I will make you a screen no problem, come look at my DR and you will see I made the bash plate, the screen as well as the panier racks and they all look factory at a "sheds" price. I also did a mod to the rear tail light/mudgaurd that also looks factory. Go for the DR mate, you will not be sorry.

buggsubique

20th March 2009, 14:02

I just sold my DR-Z 400 and think I may actually end up getting another one if a big Africa Twin at the right price doesn't come along... They're f*cken good bikes.

Waxxa

20th March 2009, 15:32

NordieBoy

20th March 2009, 16:36

Value for money (cheap) and good for shorties the KLE500 and XF650 win the road biased adventuring stakes.

chasio

20th March 2009, 18:44

As far as a Kawasaki choice is concerned, instead of the KLE500 what about the KLR650.

More off road orientented.

If most of your riding is going to be multi-day road touring have a look at the KLE650.

I'm more looking road biased. I hear the later KLR's can cut the mustard but I think I'd be out of budget on a later one. A 2007 just went in Welly for $6500 on TardMe, but still a bit steep for me.

If you'd sell me your Versys for $6k, I'd be very interested :woohoo:

chasio

20th March 2009, 18:49

I just sold my DR-Z 400 and think I may actually end up getting another one if a big Africa Twin at the right price doesn't come along... They're f*cken good bikes.

Looks a bit hefty for me right now but if I was local I'd go round for a look-see at this. (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dual-purpose/auction-208577407.htm)

NordieBoy

20th March 2009, 18:55

I'm more looking road biased. I hear the later KLR's can cut the mustard but I think I'd be out of budget on a later one. A 2007 just went in Welly for $6500 on TardMe, but still a bit steep for me.

If you'd sell me your Versys for $6k, I'd be very interested :woohoo:

I'd go for which out of the KLE and XF you could get for the cheapest.
An XF650 did the Dusty Butt fine as did a KLE400. The bonus with the XF is the amount of knowledge around about the engine.

Paladin

20th March 2009, 19:15

chasio

20th March 2009, 19:20

There was a sweet 99 KLE with 42k kms on TM went for $1500 last nite! Looked a nice bike for $1500, sheesh, cheap as chips!

How did I not see that? :weep:

chasio

20th March 2009, 19:22

... there is a teeny chance (yeah, right) that it will get biffed over a bank or down a gravel road fairly soon after you get your paws on it...

...so, if your not sure, get a cheap 250 "trail" type bike and thrash that around the place until you can decide.

The thought has certainly crossed my mind. I will take it easy on road at first and use the GT200 for commuting until I've sussed the new bike. I picked up the Vespa in Palmy and rode it back to Auckland on the twisties (Paraparas, Glen Murray, etc.) without incident except a bit of side stand scraping after a few hundred kms :) so I'm hoping I can keep it rubber side down for a while at least.

Buying a dirty 250 has been in my mind but I am not too keen to buy and sell more often than I need to!

JATZ

20th March 2009, 19:26

I'd go for which out of the KLE and XF you could get for the cheapest.
An XF650 did the Dusty Butt fine as did a KLE400. The bonus with the XF is the amount of knowledge around about the engine.

XF's just a cheap knock off of the F650, isn't it.
All the F650's I've seen on t/me are waaaay over priced.The missus one had done about 125,000 k when she sold it and it still went real well, I think the injected ones had a few issues with fueling, ours were both carbed.
Parts are f*@kin expensive.
Still not bad bikes if your doing a lot of road work

My 2c

chasio

20th March 2009, 19:27

I'd go for which out of the KLE and XF you could get for the cheapest.
An XF650 did the Dusty Butt fine as did a KLE400. The bonus with the XF is the amount of knowledge around about the engine.

I'm definitely leaning to one of the 2 japs. Just twin carbs on the XF compared to the DR isn't it? First tweak would have to be the exhaust flow after reading your posts.

Edit: Nope, it's an airbox mod with new jets, I'm told.

The GPZ500 engine on the KLE is pretty well known as well, I believe. But I've read a new lightweight exhaust is the first upgrade for a KLE and it's lot more pricey than the above.

XF650

21st March 2009, 13:06

OK I'm biased towards the XF so the comment from JATZ will keep.....

While the power (standard) looks similair, the XF is 20kg lighter & has more tourque than the KLE = better power to weight ratio? This might prove important if you are considering long distance touring with luggage & or pillion.

I haven't ridden a KLE to make a true comparison but if twins are being considered then what about a Transalp? Not sure if they are in your price range but I'm impressed by Timg's one. Plus both the Honda & the Kawa have 21" front wheels, which are a real advantage in thick gravel & offroad. However for road & easy gravel, the 19" fronts are fine. Plus with "appropiate" tyres you can still go "the long way".

Have fun test riding your options chasio and let us know your impressions.

chasio

21st March 2009, 20:11

Thanks to XF650 as well as his direction to rogson, I have got properly genned up on the XF ($50 for 10% more hp? nice) and it is definitely interesting for me as more or less a noob with a full license. I really need to find a KLE in Aucks even just to have a sit on as it's a long return trip to Whangarei for a look when short of time... bearing in mind I don't have a swift enough set of wheels yet.

Touring with luggage is in. Pillion needs persuading but there's time...

A Transalp at the right price could be very attractive as well. I was watching an XL400 on TardMe but the ad got pulled by the seller pretty sharpish. Similar weight to KLE at about 180KG. None in price range for me right now but there's no actual rush (just me being keen).

Nallac has said he may be able to shoot up and look that XF over for me next week, which would be O for oarsome as I know can't assess a bike's condition properly. I do know it would fit me fine, having had a sit and a tutu earlier on.

KB is the goods, man. :Punk:

Chasio

PS I'm looking for a proper refresher course but has anyone anywhere near AKL got a rat bike they'd be willing to let me ride around a paddock for an hour in exchange for beer or similar? No harm in asking :)

Tony W

22nd March 2009, 17:14

KLE 500s ARE GUTLESS.
Quite nice looking, so I test rode one.......what a shock ! The DRZ 400 feels doubly powerful.

I do like XFs.

Paladin

22nd March 2009, 22:25

And remember, if it doesn't have a bashplate, put one on before you go offroading cos ya never know what might happen! :Oops:

(Not that I'd be that silly with a new bike!)

:msn-wink:

XF650

23rd March 2009, 06:07

It's ironic that the XF650 comes standard with a substantial bash plate, yet the more 'off road' focused DR650 doesn't ??

Crisis management

23rd March 2009, 07:16

PS I'm looking for a proper refresher course but has anyone anywhere near AKL got a rat bike they'd be willing to let me ride around a paddock for an hour in exchange for beer or similar? No harm in asking :)

Tony (KTMboy on here) at the Sandpit (Woodhill off road bike park) has a 200cc trail bike he rents out, I would be happy to ride with you on the easy trails up there if thats of any use. It isn't adventure riding but it is the basic skillset you need for adventure riding.
Not sure if thats the sort of riding you are thinking of but I promise I won't post up the photos.:whistle:

DR 650 cases: I've seen plenty with holes in them, they are paper thin and a bash plate is a minimum.

NordieBoy

23rd March 2009, 07:53

Paladin

23rd March 2009, 09:07

It's ironic that the XF650 comes standard with a substantial bash plate, yet the more 'off road' focused DR650 doesn't ??

Ironic or stupid?

The pre-96 had a rev counter, bashplate, decent pillion pegs, more HP (less torque), front disc guard...

Yep, how can they advertise the DR as ready to go for offroad adventure when the casing gets damaged so easily. Actually its pretty f*cking outrageous when you think about it! I mean it would surely cost them peanuts to put one on in the factory. I can only presume its a sick plan to get buyers to buy a suzuki bashplate and generate more revenue or a rediculous cost saving exercise on the front end!

After having a rev counter on the KLX, I thought I would miss it but tbh not having one made me take my eyes off the instruments and listen to the engine more which is a good thing. Not saying rev counters aren't useful, just how not having one changed my focus in a positive way.

I actually missed the clock more than the rev counter!

NordieBoy

23rd March 2009, 09:30

I actually missed the clock more than the rev counter!

I like my clock and rev counter and GPS and thermometer and LED dash lights...

I'm sure I've forgotten something :D

3L4NS1R

23rd March 2009, 10:02

Yep, how can they advertise the DR as ready to go for offroad adventure when the casing gets damaged so easily. Actually its pretty f*cking outrageous when you think about it! I mean it would surely cost them peanuts to put one on in the factory. I can only presume its a sick plan to get buyers to buy a suzuki bashplate and generate more revenue or a rediculous cost saving exercise on the front end!

After having a rev counter on the KLX, I thought I would miss it but tbh not having one made me take my eyes off the instruments and listen to the engine more which is a good thing. Not saying rev counters aren't useful, just how not having one changed my focus in a positive way.

I actually missed the clock more than the rev counter!

I tell ya, should've stay with the KLX. Mines going to be the perfect touring machine when I finish with it (in about 23 years time...)

Paladin

23rd March 2009, 11:12

I like my clock and rev counter and GPS and thermometer and LED dash lights...

I'm sure I've forgotten something :D

no surely not! :shutup:

I tell ya, should've stay with the KLX. Mines going to be the perfect touring machine when I finish with it (in about 23 years time...)

If you like you can have a go on my DR - see if I can't get you converted to something more touring orientated a little quicker! Come down for the King Country ride mate!!!!!! :innocent:

The DR is nice mate, doesn't feel hardly any heavier than the KLX and its SOOOOO nice on the road in comparison!

nallac

23rd March 2009, 11:18

The DR is nice mate, doesn't feel hardly any heavier than the KLX and its SOOOOO nice on the road in comparison!

I found that My old DR650 felt lighter than the Xr250 that it replaced.
weight musta been down lower, shet loads better to ride on the road, no
more nearly getting blown off the road by passing trucks.

3L4NS1R

23rd March 2009, 11:48

If you like you can have a go on my DR - see if I can't get you converted to something more touring orientated a little quicker! Come down for the King Country ride mate!!!!!! :innocent:

The DR is nice mate, doesn't feel hardly any heavier than the KLX and its SOOOOO nice on the road in comparison!

Would love to make it! But it's on ANZAC weekend! For me to miss that is like a Jewish Priest missing Passover, or the Pope skipping Easter for a year...

And I'm not concerned about NICE! Nice is for females with pink and white baskets on the front (or cruiser riders...). I'm talking about go-everywhere, legend-in-the-making type fun! Plus NOONE suspects the 2-fiddy rider... :shifty:

Paladin

23rd March 2009, 18:07

......... no more nearly getting blown off the road by passing trucks.

Yeah I hated that AND the wind in Welly blowing me about on the urban motorway flyover!

Would love to make it! But it's on ANZAC weekend! For me to miss that is like a Jewish Priest missing Passover, or the Pope skipping Easter for a year...

And I'm not concerned about NICE! Nice is for females with pink and white baskets on the front (or cruiser riders...). I'm talking about go-everywhere, legend-in-the-making type fun! Plus NOONE suspects the 2-fiddy rider... :shifty:

Hey Sam, I forgot it was on Anzac weekend - apologies mate - I already knew you were going to be elsewhere, but had temporarily forgotten!

As for the adjective "nice", I ordered my pink basket in Motorad today! :oi-grr:

I think the legend-in-the-making is gonna be about your guts to go for anything on a bike, as you already have, not cos its the KLX mate - think you'd push the outside of the envelope on whatever you owned and credit to ya for it! :woohoo:

warewolf

23rd March 2009, 19:21

The pre-96 had ...How much has the price gone up since '96?

I can only presume its a sick plan to get buyers to buy a suzuki bashplate and generate more revenue or a rediculous cost saving exercise on the front end! Cheap bikes to make the sale; expensive parts and optional extra accessories in order to make some profit somehow.

Or they could go the Hardley Rollinson route, and sell merchandise. btw has anyone else noticed how West Coast Choppers has taken over from the HDTOG* as THE club to be in if you aren't an actual rider?

I like my clock and rev counter and GPS and thermometer and LED dash lights...

I'm sure I've forgotten something :DEspresso machine?

Hardly Rollingson T-shirt Owners Group

Woodman

23rd March 2009, 19:49

Yep, how can they advertise the DR as ready to go for offroad adventure when the casing gets damaged so easily. Actually its pretty f*cking outrageous when you think about it! I mean it would surely cost them peanuts to put one on in the factory. I can only presume its a sick plan to get buyers to buy a suzuki bashplate and generate more revenue or a rediculous cost saving exercise on the front end!

After having a rev counter on the KLX, I thought I would miss it but tbh not having one made me take my eyes off the instruments and listen to the engine more which is a good thing. Not saying rev counters aren't useful, just how not having one changed my focus in a positive way.

I actually missed the clock more than the rev counter!

Its known as backdoor inflation, It is the same technique that has made a can of beer the same price, but the can is smaller, and the reason a roll of bogpaper runs out mid wiping, the cardboard roll is a bigger diameter ie less actual paper. There are countless other examples of the same thing, eg DRs.

Paladin

23rd March 2009, 20:01

....
Cheap bikes to make the sale; expensive parts and optional extra accessories in order to make some profit somehow.

Are parts and optional extra accessories cheap for a KTM then? I know that a KTM will come well kitted out initially but they still get you on the back end don't they? More regular servicing, expensive parts etc????

I'm no expert on KTM's, but was just wondering is all.

chasio

23rd March 2009, 20:09

Its known as backdoor inflation, It is the same technique that has made a can of beer the same price, but the can is smaller, and the reason a roll of bogpaper runs out mid wiping, the cardboard roll is a bigger diameter ie less actual paper. There are countless other examples of the same thing, eg DRs.

Backdoor inflation sounds like a deviant practise to me. Pass the bog roll...

Woodman

23rd March 2009, 20:15

Paladin

23rd March 2009, 20:17

Mate, I can see a Dr vs Klr explosion coming on soon.

Yeah well after hearing about the cost to replace smashed up unprotected KLR fairings, I think KLR owners have no place talking about costs of DR ownership! :girlfight:

(heehee!) :whistle:

Paladin

23rd March 2009, 20:21

And the cost of KLR replacement decals!!!!! :bleh:

Woodman

23rd March 2009, 20:21

Yeah well after hearing about the cost to replace smashed up unprotected KLR fairings, I think KLR owners have no place talking about costs of DR ownership! :girlfight:
(heehee!) :whistle:

cable ties, bungy cords and duct tape are not expensive.

Paladin

23rd March 2009, 20:23

cable ties, bungy cords and duct tape are not expensive.

Typical KLR owner - cheap barstewards! :laugh:

nallac

23rd March 2009, 20:24

can't make em look any worse...

Paladin

23rd March 2009, 20:29

can't make em look any worse...

meowwwwwwwww! :girlfight:

chasio

23rd March 2009, 21:27

Hijack alert! :Police:

Paladin

23rd March 2009, 21:40

Hijack alert! :Police:

:shutup::shutup::shutup::shutup::shutup::shutup:

Waihou Thumper

23rd March 2009, 21:48

Woodman

23rd March 2009, 21:58

pete376403

23rd March 2009, 22:01

But you never really finish with a KLR - you just add another farkle

Paladin

23rd March 2009, 22:10

Parts cheaper than Japan bikes and you can service a lot of the things yourself....The fuel injection beasts might be a different story, I will be looking for a 640A 2005 if one pops up or a second hand 690A in five years from now...:third:

There is wealth of info on ADV and KTM talk, get everything you need from there..

You know I honestly woud never have guessed Parts are cheaper for KTM's than Japanese bikes, but like I said I'm no KTM expert, just presumed they would be expensive because they are so highly refined machines in alot of ways!

Yep KTM is what the klr will be replaced with when I have finished with it.
At the risk of being excommunicated from the klr brotherhood, the new generation klrs just don't do it for me at the moment. KTM def does.

All DR vs KLR banter aside, I'm with you on that. If I had the money to blow on a KTM, I sure would have!!!!!!!! :yes:

But it will remain a goal for the future, which is fine and fortunately am 100% happy with the '09 DR so all is good! (not so happy with myself for being a numpty and risking it offroad with no bashlate tho!)

Waihou Thumper

23rd March 2009, 22:43

You know I honestly woud never have guessed Parts are cheaper for KTM's than Japanese bikes, but like I said I'm no KTM expert, just presumed they would be expensive because they are so highly refined machines in alot of ways!

I have bought a few things and replaced parts...
Clothing is expensive, has the KTM brand....
I bought a new front guard, orange from Austria....It arrived and it was all of $37.00 I recall....

Mind you engine bits and pieces could be expensive. Chains, sprockets etc are average.

warewolf

23rd March 2009, 22:58

Are parts and optional extra accessories cheap for a KTM then? I know that a KTM will come well kitted out initially but they still get you on the back end don't they? More regular servicing, expensive parts etc????

I'm no expert on KTM's, but was just wondering is all.Quite often the KTM parts are a lot cheaper, and the bikes tend to come with more equipment standard. The more regular servicing is a myth, usually comes from erroneously comparing trail bikes to race bikes. The LC4 is in the former category. The service intervals on the LC4 are 5000km, the EXC bikes 1500km(?) (both for road use). Similarly a WR-F would look appalling in terms of servicing & reliability compared to a DR. It's not a valid comparison. My DR-Z ran 1000-1500km between oil changes, my LC4 always does 5000km and the oil looks to be in better condition.

I would add that KTM riders tend to have more pride in their mounts, and take more care of them. They tend to do more work that is neglected but no less necessary on other bikes. Gross generalisation but likely true often enough.

Unfortunately, KTM used to have a pricing model of fair prices for bikes (higher) and for parts (lower). But they have been moving to the Suzuki model of cheap bikes and then stinging you for parts afterwards. Bit of a piss-off if you bought you bike under the old regime, as you are being stung twice.

In other respects, there are swings and roundabouts. The Euros can be quirky but at the same time, well designed. Eg the LC4 requires burping/priming the frame oil reservoir when the oil is changed, sounds fiddly/messy but not a big deal. Call it a -ve. On the +ve side, there are very few fastener types and sizes and numbers, so accessing things is quicker and easier. Again the DR-Z; it required about 6 different tools to remove the seat and side covers (several different screwdrivers, a couple of hex bolts, allen key?) to get to stuff. The LC4 has one bolt to remove the seat, everything is under there. Plus that same size undoes 6 bolts to remove the headlight mask to expose all the wiring etc. One more bolt (different size) and the tank is off. On the front end, the triple-clamp bolt heads are the same size as the front wheel pinch bolts. The DR-Z had different sizes, despite similar torque values.

And dealer servicing is no different to any other brand. It's always cheaper to do it yourself though.

A final thought; one of the reason KTM parts can be cheaper is the long model runs and continuity of parts. There's lots of stuff for the the MX/XC bikes that will bolt straight on to many different years, models and sizes of bikes, even across families. Eg I've ripped the front guard & brace off my LC2 and bolted it up to my LC4. Chains & rear sprockets are the same on all KTM full-size bikes (except LC8), so I move them between the LC2 and the LC4 on occasion. The 640A has the 950 front wheel etc, but the 640E has the RFS-style front. The LC4 rear wheels, despite having the drive on the other side, are the same as RFS bikes - except for the cush drive, which people often choose to add or subtract by swapping to a wheel from the other family. etc etc etc

Waihou Thumper

23rd March 2009, 23:12

Quite often the KTM parts are a lot cheaper, and the bikes tend to come with more equipment standard. The more regular servicing is a myth, usually comes from erroneously comparing trail bikes to race bikes. The LC4 is in the former category. The service intervals on the LC4 are 5000km, the EXC bikes 1500km(?) (both for road use). Similarly a WR-F would look appalling in terms of servicing & reliability compared to a DR. It's not a valid comparison. My DR-Z ran 1000-1500km between oil changes, my LC4 always does 5000km and the oil looks to be in better condition.

I would add that KTM riders tend to have more pride in their mounts, and take more care of them. They tend to do more work that is neglected but no less necessary on other bikes. Gross generalisation but likely true often enough.

Unfortunately, KTM used to have a pricing model of fair prices for bikes (higher) and for parts (lower). But they have been moving to the Suzuki model of cheap bikes and then stinging you for parts afterwards. Bit of a piss-off if you bought you bike under the old regime, as you are being stung twice.

In other respects, there are swings and roundabouts. The Euros can be quirky but at the same time, well designed. Eg the LC4 requires burping/priming the frame oil reservoir when the oil is changed, sounds fiddly/messy but not a big deal. Call it a -ve. On the +ve side, there are very few fastener types and sizes and numbers, so accessing things is quicker and easier. Again the DR-Z; it required about 6 different tools to remove the seat and side covers (several different screwdrivers, a couple of hex bolts, allen key?) to get to stuff. The LC4 has one bolt to remove the seat, everything is under there. Plus that same size undoes 6 bolts to remove the headlight mask to expose all the wiring etc. One more bolt (different size) and the tank is off. On the front end, the triple-clamp bolt heads are the same size as the front wheel pinch bolts. The DR-Z had different sizes, despite similar torque values.

And dealer servicing is no different to any other brand. It's always cheaper to do it yourself though.

A final thought; one of the reason KTM parts can be cheaper is the long model runs and continuity of parts. There's lots of stuff for the the MX/XC bikes that will bolt straight on to many different years, models and sizes of bikes, even across families. Eg I've ripped the front guard & brace off my LC2 and bolted it up to my LC4. Chains & rear sprockets are the same on all KTM full-size bikes (except LC8), so I move them between the LC2 and the LC4 on occasion. The 640A has the 950 front wheel etc, but the 640E has the RFS-style front. The LC4 rear wheels, despite having the drive on the other side, are the same as RFS bikes - except for the cush drive, which people often choose to add or subtract by swapping to a wheel from the other family. etc etc etc

For the quick quote, couldn't have expressed it better myself mate..:done:

Paladin

23rd March 2009, 23:14

Geez Colin, I may have to read that 8 times to absorb all that info! :first:

Waihou Thumper

23rd March 2009, 23:15

Eg I've ripped the front guard & brace off my LC2 and bolted it up to my LC4. Chains & rear sprockets are the same on all KTM full-size bikes (except LC8), so I move them between the LC2 and the LC4 on occasion. The 640A has the 950 front wheel etc, but the 640E has the RFS-style front. The LC4 rear wheels, despite having the drive on the other side, are the same as RFS bikes - except for the cush drive, which people often choose to add or subtract by swapping to a wheel from the other family. etc etc etc

AND don't forget Husaberg....
I just put the new chain on my KTM, 520 chain size, the same as the Husaberg that came with the bike, new sprocket too...SO, that saved me some dosh!

NordieBoy

24th March 2009, 07:50

But you never really finish with a KLR - you just add another farkle

Unless you're Woodman...
He's slowly finishing his KLR off :clap:

NordieBoy

24th March 2009, 07:56

The more regular servicing is a myth, usually comes from erroneously comparing trail bikes to race bikes. The LC4 is in the former category. The service intervals on the LC4 are 5000km, the EXC bikes 1500km(?) (both for road use). Similarly a WR-F would look appalling in terms of servicing & reliability compared to a DR. It's not a valid comparison. My DR-Z ran 1000-1500km between oil changes, my LC4 always does 5000km and the oil looks to be in better condition.

The new injected WR250R has 10,000km service intervals and 40,000km valve clearance checks :shit:
Max power at 10,000rpm!
Direct ignition coil sitting on top of the sparkplug.
30km/L from the 8L tank.

Paladin

24th March 2009, 08:40

Yep KTM is what the klr will be replaced with when I have finished with it.
At the risk of being excommunicated from the klr brotherhood, the new generation klrs just don't do it for me at the moment. KTM def does.

Unless you're Woodman...
He's slowly finishing his KLR off :clap:

See Fran, he has a cunning plan to finish off the KLR and get a KTM!!! Which might also be a cunning plan to makes us all jealous! :shutup:

mazz1972

24th March 2009, 10:46

The GPZ500 engine on the KLE is pretty well known as well, I believe. But I've read a new lightweight exhaust is the first upgrade for a KLE and it's lot more pricey than the above.

ABout the KLE500....

Someone said in another post it's gutless and compared it to a DRZ400. Yes the DRZ400 is probably faster but they are totally different bikes - KLE far more road oriented. Depends what you are going for I guess. Hubby has a DRZ400 and a XT660X and he loved riding the KLE because it's so smooth to ride with the parallel twin motor.

The dorky looking windscreen works a treat and the bike is brilliant in the wind.

Pic of mine attached. As I'm short, the front forks were slid up through the clamps, and less air in the forks, so it's looking a bit squat (standard seat height 850mm).

Weighs in at 181kg dry, and it's top heavy which I hated, but you are taller than me so would handle it better.

Downside: lots of plastic to break in a good off (one side of mine came pre-broken so I didn't have to christen it).

I've just traded my KLE as it was just too tall and heavy for me.

123785

chasio

24th March 2009, 12:48

ABout the KLE500....

Someone said in another post it's gutless and compared it to a DRZ400. Yes the DRZ400 is probably faster but they are totally different bikes - KLE far more road oriented. Depends what you are going for I guess. Hubby has a DRZ400 and a XT660X and he loved riding the KLE because it's so smooth to ride with the parallel twin motor.

The dorky looking windscreen works a treat and the bike is brilliant in the wind.

Pic of mine attached. As I'm short, the front forks were slid up through the clamps, and less air in the forks, so it's looking a bit squat (standard seat height 850mm).

Weighs in at 181kg dry, and it's top heavy which I hated, but you are taller than me so would handle it better.

Downside: lots of plastic to break in a good off (one side of mine came pre-broken so I didn't have to christen it).

I've just traded my KLE as it was just too tall and heavy for me.

That's useful info, thanks :). It might not be too tall - I just need to find one nearer than Whangarei so I can find out!

The fact that it is good in the wind would be very useful as I cross the Harbour Bridge twice most days and the winter can get... interesting.

Probably has a similar amount of plastic to an XF650, at a guess!

Cheers - Chasio

Woodman

24th March 2009, 19:32

Unless you're Woodman...
He's slowly finishing his KLR off :clap:

heeey, where are we gonna start the "fence of shame" that we were talking about at the laidback.
For yous not in the loop it will be a fence(maybe) with all the broken parts from our bikes hangin on it. Similar to the bra fence down south.

JATZ

24th March 2009, 19:46

heeey, where are we gonna start the "fence of shame" that we were talking about at the laidback.
For yous not in the loop it will be a fence(maybe) with all the broken parts from our bikes hangin on it. Similar to the bra fence down south.

YOUR PLACE :jerry:

NordieBoy

24th March 2009, 21:15

mazz1972

24th March 2009, 21:15

That's useful info, thanks :). It might not be too tall - I just need to find one nearer than Whangarei so I can find out!

The fact that it is good in the wind would be very useful as I cross the Harbour Bridge twice most days and the winter can get... interesting.

Probably has a similar amount of plastic to an XF650, at a guess!

Cheers - Chasio

PM me if you want to look at some decent photos of my KLE - I took a heap as I was going to list it on Trademe.

I recently spent ages researching dual purpose bikes as I wasn't happy with my KLE. I came up with the same short list as you.

The XF650 is a bit shorter (820mm seat height) and lighter (168kg) than the KLE but I didn't look at one in the "flesh" as I wanted something a bit newer - I think 2003 was the last year of production but the only one down here for sale was a 90's model. An Aprillia Pegaso made my list but again none around here to look at and a bit pricey anyway. I tried an older Cagiva Canyon 600 but it was awful.

KLR650's are just too big so a DR650 was the only other option - I thought after the aerodynamics and smoothness of the KLE, I would not enjoy the DR. However I rode one on Sunday and I was surprised how much I liked it.

Paladin

24th March 2009, 21:41

........

KLR650's are just too big so a DR650 was the only other option - I thought after the aerodynamics and smoothness of the KLE, I would not enjoy the DR. However I rode one on Sunday and I was surprised how much I liked it.

Another one sees the light!!!! :wari:

mazz1972

24th March 2009, 22:24

Another one sees the light!!!! :wari:

Um yep....but I didn't buy one.....I've gone to the dark side :shifty:

If I was in the market I'd be gagging for this one http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=209496727

pete376403

24th March 2009, 22:32

And for the DR's?

A nail on the fencepost of shame to hang the...
Ummm....

paladins crankcases?

KLRs tend to break the less important bits. So far I haven't broken anything that cant be repaired with duct tape.

pete376403

24th March 2009, 22:34

Another one sees the light!!!! :wari:
So soon you forget... just a few weeks ago the Kawi was the love of your life

warewolf

24th March 2009, 22:43

AND don't forget Husaberg....
I just put the new chain on my KTM, 520 chain size, the same as the Husaberg that came with the bike,Didn't forget the 'Bergs. They are now owned (partially?) by KTM and they are commonising the ancilliaries with the rest of the KTM bikes.

A mate has recently acquired a 'Berg. His comment: feck it's nice working on a Euro bike again!! If you like good design, the 'Bergs excel to the point of a) making me jealous, and b) wishing they did some of that stuff to the KTMs!!

warewolf

24th March 2009, 22:48

The new injected WR250R:drool: Yep, I have always liked where they are headed with that bike. :niceone: Now they need to do it (successfully) to the 450 and people will really sit up and take notice.

Interesting thing about the service intervals. When I bought my '92 TDM, it advertised 24,000km valve check intervals. Upon querying my dealer about it, they reckoned they weren't game to risk it, and suggested a more traditional schedule.

warewolf

24th March 2009, 22:49

heeey, where are we gonna start the "fence of shame"Somewhere on the Maungatapu?

A bit like hanging wabbits on the fence, as a warning to the rest of them?? :lol: :buggerd:

Paladin

24th March 2009, 22:53

Um yep....but I didn't buy one.....I've gone to the dark side :shifty:

If I was in the market I'd be gagging for this one http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=209496727

:no: Oh so close, but yet so far! I'll pray for your soul my son!

paladins crankcases?

KLRs tend to break the less important bits. So far I haven't broken anything that cant be repaired with duct tape.

I think my head will probably be on the fence of shame for that whole "no bashplate" fiasco! Still, lesson learned, being super careful aint enuff and its just not worth risking your bike if you're not loaded with dosh!

No, I refuse to rise to the duct tape baiting! I'm saying nothing! :brick:

So soon you forget... just a few weeks ago the Kawi was the love of your life

But that was a KLX - a great little bike to get you started on adv/offroad riding if all you've got is a 6L! :shifty:
I will say that the KLX was WAY prettier than the DR for sure. DR's aren't the most modern lookin machine, but in the end I bought mine for what it can do for me with where I'm at, not its looks, although I tried hard to get a look I liked by going all black! Oh no, maybe I am headed to the dark side! :Punk:

NordieBoy

25th March 2009, 08:04

paladins crankcases?

KLRs tend to break the less important bits. So far I haven't broken anything that cant be repaired with duct tape.

The fence wouldn't support my engine so I'll just keep it in the shed.

Paladin

25th March 2009, 10:07

Didn't forget the 'Bergs. They are now owned (partially?) by KTM and they are commonising the ancilliaries with the rest of the KTM bikes.

A mate has recently acquired a 'Berg. His comment: feck it's nice working on a Euro bike again!! If you like good design, the 'Bergs excel to the point of a) making me jealous, and b) wishing they did some of that stuff to the KTMs!!

I'm sure the KTM tech guys will be pouring over the 'Bergs seeing what they can incorporate on Katooms. I would hazard a guess that kind of issue was one of the reasons they bought them - seeing what ways they might raise the KTM bar even higher! :2thumbsup

warewolf

25th March 2009, 10:12

The fence wouldn't support my engine so I'll just keep it in the shed.Everyone needs a 'glory wall' in their shed! (and a shed!!)

warewolf

25th March 2009, 10:14

I'm sure the KTM tech guys will be pouring over the 'Bergs seeing what they can incorporate on Katooms. I would hazard a guess that kind of issue was one of the reasons they bought them - seeing what ways they might raise the KTM bar even higher! :2thumbsupPrimarily the reverse, they intend to use 'Berg as a development platform, and keep it as the 'step up' brand from KTM.

Paladin

25th March 2009, 10:19

Primarily the reverse, they intend to use 'Berg as a development platform, and keep it as the 'step up' brand from KTM.

Interesting! I didn't know that the 'Bergs were considered so good that as a brand they could be considered a step up from KTMs. Now you've said that, I see the benefit for KTM still, but of course in reverse as you said - smart bastids in Austria! :niceone:

nallac

25th March 2009, 10:30

Well I took the XF for a ride yesterday morning.

It's a fairly tidy bike overall, the front indicators need to be replaced,looks like a static drop maybe,as theres no damage to any other body work.

I forgot how much fun thru the twistys a lower powered bike can be,use full throttle all the way...can't do that on my R1 as i would go spearing off the
road.:Oops:Got the edge of my boot down without trying to hard.
Should be even better with a round back tyre.

It has a weeping left front fork seal, needs new rear pads,nearly metal on metal..chain and sprockets in ok condition,needs a good clean.

Majorly under braked compared to what I'm used to...... a braided line and new fluid could go along way to helping.

Does any one know if they have the same problem as the earlier DR's with base gasket leaks as it's got some sealer at the base...

It would be ideal for what chasio's after,a good commuter(minus the bags)
a tourer with em, heapsa fun at licence keeping speeds, altho it will exceed the speed limit by a bit.(of course i wouldn't of done a top speed run as thats against the law:innocent:)

If it was mine i would change the bars to a flatter bend as they feel like ape hangers and go braided brake lines,also a fork brace would be a good idea.

chasio

25th March 2009, 12:27

Does any one know if they have the same problem as the earlier DR's with base gasket leaks as it's got some sealer at the base...

Thanks again for the test!

I hadn't had a chance to update you (work gets in the way, eh?) but I've had a couple of PM's (thanks rogson/xf650) on this and they certainly do have the same issue.

Time for sums/phone calls/etc.

nallac

25th March 2009, 12:36

not a worry..was a beaut day for a ride..

Had fun with out going into loss of licence speeds..

It could pay to do a carjam check and get in touch with previous owner and see how long the sealers been on there..

oh and find out what he got as a trade....

chasio

25th March 2009, 16:57

PM on its way in a bit!

XF650

25th March 2009, 20:33

Fork brace should be std on the Freewind.
Random base gasket leak is common with DR650, fixed by either bog or fitting post 2003 model metal gasket.

nallac

25th March 2009, 20:39

Has sealer on base gasket. I read lots of comments reguarding sealer or changing gasket before buying my old DR.Plenty for and against both......

Didn't notice a fork brace tho.

monchopper

25th March 2009, 21:00

Interesting! I didn't know that the 'Bergs were considered so good that as a brand they could be considered a step up from KTMs. Now you've said that, I see the benefit for KTM still, but of course in reverse as you said - smart bastids in Austria! :niceone:

The 2009 'bergs have a radical 70 degree engine. Will be interesting to see how long it takes to make it's way to the mainstream KTM's. The FE570 looks great. see pic
The idea is less rotational mass by having the piston going in the same direction as the bike (I believe). Reports suggest the 570 feels like the 450exc (which is the best handling 4T road legal bike I've ridden)

NordieBoy

26th March 2009, 07:00

The 2009 'bergs have a radical 70 degree engine. Will be interesting to see how long it takes to make it's way to the mainstream KTM's. The FE570 looks great. see pic
The idea is less rotational mass by having the piston going in the same direction as the bike (I believe). Reports suggest the 570 feels like the 450exc (which is the best handling 4T road legal bike I've ridden)

That is a "Wall of Coolness" bike along with the Aprilia RXV's

chasio

2nd April 2009, 21:31

Has sealer on base gasket. I read lots of comments reguarding sealer or changing gasket before buying my old DR.Plenty for and against both......

Well I have bought the XF650. :banana:

The deal includes a replacement base gasket as well as a heap of other work. I have to say that the Kaiwaka Suzuki guys have been excellent and I'd go back to them in a heartbeat.

I pick up on Saturday morning. There's just the small issue of riding back from Kaiwaka without falling off and I'll be good to go! I have a lot to learn, despite my refresher with qkchk...

Thanks for your feedback folks and in particular to nallac, rogson and XF650 (credits in alphabetical order!) who helped get me over the line with this.

:clap:

Cheers - Chasio

NordieBoy

2nd April 2009, 21:46

Good bike and works well 2-up (better than the DR650).

I'd be tempted by one if it came with a DR350 as well :D

chasio

3rd April 2009, 05:23

Cheers. Once we get over the initial resistance of Mrs Chasio, I have plans for 2-up touring :)

I saw the DR350 on here and it had me sorely tempted as it looks so well looked after and very fair money to me. But for now the XF will fit the bill until I figure out which way I want to go. I'm looking forward to finding out.

Chasio

portokiwi

3rd April 2009, 06:08

I have allways loved dual bikes, ever since Iwas in the Army.... It was so much fun. riding the XR250s :rolleyes: or was it an XL?????:clap: anyway it was great fun:niceone:

nallac

3rd April 2009, 06:56

Take the back roads home,

Kaiwaka - mangawhai-to either wellsford via wayby valley road then Hw16(or over the gravel hill to matakana then warkworth)

By the time your home you'll be well and truly used to it..

chasio

4th April 2009, 14:04

Picked her up and came the windy way home alright.

Just as well I was wearing a helmet as I headed for Mangawhai or my grin would have had me arrested as a danger to the public.

The new rear tyre should be scrubbed in by now but it'll be a while before I get nallac's lean angles... I take it easy.

I reckon it was a good choice :)

nallac

4th April 2009, 19:02

glad your happy with it...now work on scrapeing the pegs:done:

XF650

4th April 2009, 21:45

glad your happy with it...now work on scrapeing the pegs:done:

Had my XF650 pegs scraping at a Levels track day - gave me a hell of a fright the first time it happened.
Actually I recconmend any (instructional) track day as a great way to familarise yourself with a new bike.

chasio

4th April 2009, 22:16

warewolf

4th April 2009, 22:56

I do like the idea of a track day some time after I can ride without looking a total muppet. Do they usually run a nana category?Ring and ask. Usually they offer something for slower/less experienced riders, but not always at every event.

Tony W

5th April 2009, 15:15

Hell I'd better get the gear changes smooth first. Switching from a scooter, my left hand is still getting used to the lever in front of it not being a rear brake... oh yeah and the rear brake being under my right foot.

I do like the idea of a track day some time after I can ride without looking a total muppet. Do they usually run a nana category?

Congratulations on your purchase. I like XF650s !
Just ride the bike carefully to your own ability on various surfaces until your confidence increases. Team up with a mate/KBers and go riding.
I wouldn't be preoccupied with trackdays at this stage - we wouldn't want to see you leaning into gravel corners !

Oscar

5th April 2009, 20:24

Had my XF650 pegs scraping at a Levels track day - gave me a hell of a fright the first time it happened.
Actually I recconmend any (instructional) track day as a great way to familarise yourself with a new bike.

I've not ridden a XF.
It's a DR650 motor is it?
19" front wheel, 17" rear?

NordieBoy

5th April 2009, 20:40

I've not ridden a XF.
It's a DR650 motor is it?
19" front wheel, 17" rear?

DR650 donk with twin carbs and bigger headers/more power...
CCM used it as the base for their CCM644 dirt bikes and motards.

chasio

5th April 2009, 20:44

I've not ridden a XF.
It's a DR650 motor is it?
19" front wheel, 17" rear?

And yes, 19" and 17" wheels. Picture of mine in this Newbie post (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=2014466#post2014466).

I like mine a lot :yes:

chasio

5th April 2009, 20:51

Congratulations on your purchase. I like XF650s !
Just ride the bike carefully to your own ability on various surfaces until your confidence increases. Team up with a mate/KBers and go riding.
I wouldn't be preoccupied with trackdays at this stage - we wouldn't want to see you leaning into gravel corners !

Cheers.

I'm 100% with you. I'm an old n00b and I have strong self preservation instincts. I've got a bike for fun, not to scare myself shitless and I'm in no rush to get my knee down! The track day is probably many months away, but I can see a point in terms of learning what the bike can do on tarmac in a safe environment.

I have so much to learn in all aspects of my rising just now, I'm concentrating on getting the basics sorted so that they become second nature. But I went for this so I can have fun at lower speeds e.g. on gravel. I'll be up for it when the time comes :)