There,s a point in this??

[Jackrat]

With all the new rules coming in can anyone give a good reason for geting into biking.I,m just returning to riding after two years away,I can,t afford a new bike so that leaves buying used.Seeing as how modern bikes are made to shit themselfs around the five year mark and most exhuast systems don,t last anywhere near that.Go anywhere near a bike shop an you get gutted like a fish,
Yet after market parts are slowly becoming outlawed why would anyone bother.Moden bikes are so complex you have to have them tuned by a dealer who don,t give a ferk about you other than geting your money.You buy an older bike you like an can do all the work on yourself an the Gov,t comes up with bullshit to keep you off the road,Like where the ferk do you get a genuine
exhaust for any jap classic.Maybe I should save my money biking in NZ looks pretty fucked to me.

[marty]

you could always drive a car.....

[Sharkey]

....... or a horse.

[750Y]

That comment about the bikes shitting themselves after 5 years was interesting.
Biking is still the great fun it’s always been maybe more(my first bike was a BSA when I was 7). it can be expensive if you want to get stuck into it seriously. The rules are made to be broken so pharkem! don’t be put off. You may reach a stage in Your life that You can walk into a shop or up to a guy and buy a decent bike, new or used(or re/build your own). If You’re not there yet don’t despair just set your goals and push. If You want it bad enough You’ll find a way to make it happen for You. From my perspective, riding in NZ is nearly the most fun you can still have with your pants on. It may not be the good ol days anymore but these are the only days you have. Get out there dude you’re missing all the fun.

[scumdog]

Hey, I could say the same about my other two main hobbies, have you seen the cost of a gun licence lately and the rigmarole to get a hunting permit, buying ammo via mail order etc etc?
Regulations!!! tell me about them! try building a hot rod or modifying a car and see how you go!
Motorbikes are best - you can have as dark tinted visor or sunglasses you want (try that with your car sidewindows!), you can hot them up/modufy them all you want and no certification plate needed, you can lower them etc and the list goes on.
The point is, if you stressed over all the reasons you gave where would you stop in life? - maybe it's better to just stay in bed huh?
C'mon, be positive, ya only get one life and we're all in the same queue from womb to tomb - it's the amount of laughs ya get along the way that counts!! (well that's what I think):niceone:

[wkid_one]

get a tuk-tuk

[MikeL]

Originally posted by 750Y
It may not be the good ol days anymore but these are the only days you have. Get out there dude you’re missing all the fun.

Spot on. I must admit that since getting back into riding just on a year ago, I've spent heaps more than I expected. But I've also had heaps more fun than I ever thought possible.
Whereas years ago a bike could be seen as practical, cheap transport, my experience of the past year would put it firmly into the category of expensive luxury. But if I had more technical expertise, could do all my own servicing as well as the time to hunt around for bargains, it could be a lot cheaper. I'd rather spend the time riding.
Remember, what matters is not the cost but the value.

[jrandom]

Originally posted by scumdog
have you seen the cost of a gun licence lately and the rigmarole to get a hunting permit, buying ammo via mail order etc etc

blaaaaaady hell, with you on that one

Took me 3 1/2 months earlier this year to sort out a gun licence. And paying $130 was the *first* thing I had to do, of course.

They're out to get us. Turn us into unarmed cage-driving sheep and all that. When the fuzzy-wuzzies start coming over the hills, and all you've got is a kitchen knife and an SUV, wotcher gonna do then? Eh? Eh?

[Lou Girardin]

Reasons to have a bike;
It's not a car.
Faster than cars
No gridlock.
Pisses off cage drivers stuck in the above.
Most people don't.
My wife doesn't like riding much.
Even riding to work is interesting.
That'll do for now.
Lou

[jrandom]

Originally posted by scumdog
Motorbikes are best ... you can lower them

(boggle)

Why would you want to?

[Coldkiwi]

Originally posted by Lou Girardin
Reasons to have a bike;
It's not a car.
Faster than cars
No gridlock.
Pisses off cage drivers stuck in the above.
Most people don't.
My wife doesn't like riding much.
Even riding to work is interesting.
That'll do for now.
Lou

spot on lou!!!

as for being expensive.... I dunno. show me a good car you can by brand new for $14,000!? Then I'll show you a list of very tasty brand new kawasaki's, suzuki's, yamahas, hondas and even a brand new race replica rip-your-arms-off- Aprilia... all of which will out perform all but 0.5% of the cars on our roads, all of which will start at about $60,000.

 

[Pickle]

Exhausts rotting out in a couple of years, where have you been? Back in the 80's maybe. Most new bikes exhausts last a long time & perform better than aftermarket items ( this should create discussion).

Our 96 model ZX6's both have their original pipes on them, still have original cam chains & still pull red line when required.:beer:

[merv]

Originally posted by doug green
Exhausts rotting out in a couple of years, where have you been? Back in the 80's maybe.

Right on Doug I was thinking exactly the same. Most Jap bikes these days have stainless headers and either aluminium, stainless or titanium mufflers so they don't rust out like old Triumph Bonneville pipes might have back in the 60s and 70s.

The other key thing that has happened (and the scientists among us will know this) is that with unleaded fuel the tendency to rust out has been greatly diminished - remember the old periodic table thing I think - the lead was hard on the steel in the old pipes. The lack of lead has greatly improved car exhaust life too and most of them aren't stainless.

Back in the 70s when I dove a mighty Hillman Hunter on leaded fuel I used to replace the back muffler about every 1 or 2 years and the rest of the system all the way to the headers only lasted about double that. I had that car 14 years and was forever doing exhaust replacements.

Two of our cars now are 1989 and 1992 models still on compeletely original pipes. My bikes are 1994 and 1998 and I see the pipes outliving me.

Jackrat what sort of bikes are you talking about shitting themselves after 5 years? European?? Certainly not Japanese. You can see here how many people have Jap bikes and many are 10 years old or so and I doubt they have needed engine work. I haven't had to even take an engine case off a bike since 1984 when I was competing in enduros and I wore the clutch out on my XR200. My fault for abusing it too much in the mud at Gwavas at the time. I eventually sold that bike when it was 15 years old and had never taken it apart again. I kept using it for Adventure rides until I bought the Suzuki in 1998. Check out my pics at http://bikemerv.topcities.com/adventure01.html

I bought the VFR new in 1994 and said at the time that will do me for 10 years. Well 10 years are damn near up and it still runs like new. Tyres are what cost money and it is now due for a chain. Otherwise there is nothing to do to it except ride it and clean it and change the oil occasionally so I will probably keep it well past 10 years.

So don't get depressed just buy a decent Jap bike and enjoy yourself and don't even worry about the Government.

[MikeL]

Originally posted by Coldkiwi
as for being expensive.... I dunno. show me a good car you can by brand new for $14,000!? Then I'll show you a list of very tasty brand new kawasaki's, suzuki's, yamahas, hondas and even a brand new race replica rip-your-arms-off- Aprilia...  

Yes, agreed, a bike is cheaper to buy. But that's all. What about registration, insurance, depreciation and above all maintenance? I just paid almost $500 for a 12k service - routine apart from new front brake pads. Do you pay $20 each for car spark plugs?? This was only a few weeks after shelling out several hundred for a new front tyre (worn out after 8k) and I'll need a new rear tyre soon as well. The maintenance costs on my car are a fraction of what I spend on the bikes... If I were an impoverished student again, as I was years ago when I had my first bike, I don't think I would be riding...

[wkid_one]

Originally posted by MikeL
Yes, agreed, a bike is cheaper to buy. But that's all. What about registration, insurance, depreciation and above all maintenance? I just paid almost $500 for a 12k service - routine apart from new front brake pads. Do you pay $20 each for car spark plugs?? This was only a few weeks after shelling out several hundred for a new front tyre (worn out after 8k) and I'll need a new rear tyre soon as well. The maintenance costs on my car are a fraction of what I spend on the bikes... If I were an impoverished student again, as I was years ago when I had my first bike, I don't think I would be riding...

Hold on - it is all relative to performance.  For starters - bike depreciate well less than cars ( I know this as I value them as collateral in my job regularly).

$500 for a service - if you are servicing your car properly is possible.

Yes, car have cheaper parts - but this is due to supply and demand - but it is also dependant on the bike you are riding.  You appear to be comparing a car designed for commuting - with a bike designed for performance riding?  I g'tee if you bought a Porsche/BMW M3 or any car with similar performance characteristics to a performance motorbike - you too would find the costs of maintaining these cars no less expensive.

If more people rode - bits would be cheaper - it is simple 5th Form Economics.  However, you also pay less for parking, less for petrol, less for overall maintenance (eg no aircon/windows/ etc etc to go wrong - it is just an engine with wheels) - you spend less time in traffic, you enjoy yourself more?  Overall I think you will find the costs weigh up in the bikes favour.  Plus it is better on the environment and reduces congestion, and is less damaging to the roading infrastructure.

[merv]

We had this discussion a few months ago and like Mike I believe my bikes cost me more per km to run than a car so I have only considered my bikes as fun toys while the cars are for doing the hard graft. For me tyres are the main maintenance issue - last less than quarter the distance of the cars and cost as much for 2 as roughly the cost of a set of four for the car. Other than that rego and insurance are pretty steep. Would I give up the bikes? No way unless they get priced off the earth or I get too bloody old to ride.

[wkid_one]

WOULD THIS GET YOU OFF YOUR BIKE???

Presently in the UK they are trialing GPS Trackers in cars.  WHereby if you speed - it is logged on the central GPS computer and a ticket will arrive in the post.  Big Borther - hell yes - Serious - Hell Yes.

 

 

[MikeL]

Originally posted by wkid_one
you spend less time in traffic, you enjoy yourself more? 
Plus it is better on the environment and reduces congestion, and is less damaging to the roading infrastructure.

Agreed, but that's not relevant to the point I was making. It seems to me that over the last 20 or 30 years there has been a shift in the role of the motorcycle. From the purely economic viewpoint a bike was the logical choice for young guys on a limited budget - we bought bikes because we couldn't afford cars - the fun factor was a compensation, but not the primary reason. Now anyone who buys a bike could for the same money buy a perfectly adequate car instead. Admittedly it won't have the same performance but arguably in terms of what you get for your money (weatherproofing, 4/5 seats, luggage capacity, heating, aircon, stereo...) it represents better value - but only from a purely economic (logical?) point of view. Which is why most young people these days are in cars not on bikes.

And I still maintain that it costs more to keep a bike on the road than a car.
If you don't believe me, just ask my wife...
:o

[Lee Rusty]

My 86 Honda had rotten mufflers by 88 and they were replaced by custom chambers mufflers then and they are still going strong.

all the new stuff is a lot better than the old crap that I still ride
but then again I can fix my old stuff and dont need a diognostic centre to fix my sick bike.

I prefer older but then I guess Im a bit off a fossil myself

Hang in there JAck old son there is something for everyone

[Lou Girardin]

Litre bikes aren't cheap to run, but neither are any cars that are fun to drive. I've sunk $18,000 into a trick MX5 over the years. Sticky car tyres aren't cheap, neither are the extra parts and work that modded cars need Now I hardly use it. What's the point, when you end up in a queue of traffic? It is probably different in less populated areas, but I wouldn't go back to cars unless I was physically unable to ride.
Lou

[750Y]

Agreed, but that's not relevant to the point I was making.
no shit.

[Big Dog]

If you want a direct comparison... When my partner and I do similar kms...
600 km in the Holden Commodore 1989 3.8l 5 speed = $120.
600 km on the Suzuki GSX1100F 1988 1.1l 5 speed = $45.

In general....
Six monthly servicing at Red Baron for the bike + suspension upgrade + two wofs = $690.

Six monthly servicing (done at home parts cost two hundred bucks for one and $150 for thr other) + Mechanical repairs + tyres + Steering repairs $1060.

Granted if we did the same kms all of the time servicing would work out roughly the same but my bike is done by a workshop her car is done at home. There has to be something to be said for the $125 vs $45 kmph argument.

If you did the New Zealand average kms for a cage of 20,000 (private motor vehicle according to lmvd) thats....
$4166.66 Pa in gas (cage)
$1499.99 Pa in gas (bike)
that leaves me $2666.67 to pay for the higher insurance a (a diferance of $480pa) registration etc hell at that rate of diferrence I'll still have money left if I up date gear every year.

The only reason we still use the car at all is she hasn't organised a license yet. I reckon I could keep the car and get her a 250 and pay for it out of the reduced cost of not needing to run the car.

Any one got an old ratbike they are willing to part with so a learner can get her license? ps talking free to a good home for something without a wof or reasonably priced for wof'd and reg.

[wkid_one]

Plus the intangible benefits of riding a bike over a car on top of that.

My points are valid - as time you spend sitting in a traffic jam is MONEY LOST - it is unproductive - as the congestion increases - the cost benefit of riding a bike does to.  Just because you can't see the money benefit - it is there.  You don't have to get up as early - saving you sleep and preventing you from getting run down.  You are more productive at work - because you are not stuck in traffic and/or worried about being late etc.  These are still VALID REASONS to own a bike - and they save you money - idling your car down the Southern Motorway all the way to the CBD - is costing you a shit load of money - versus the 25 minute trip it takes you on a bike?

Pull your head in - and don't just look at the pure costs?

BigDogs analogy is right - and proves you need to compare apples with apples - comparing a GSXRThou with a Toyota Corolla is an unfair comparision for example - both were designed for different things in their class.  Comparing a GSXRThou with a mini is more apt

[MikeL]

O.K. O.K O.K I admit defeat. I surrender. I lose the argument. You win. I accept that my bike is cheaper to run than my car.

Now I just have to reconcile that statement with my bank statement...



:Oops:

[SPman]

Well my bike costs me a damn sight more to run than my old Hiace diesel workvan ......but I don't give a shit!

 :D

[wkid_one]

LOL - my bike costs me shit loads more to run than the car - mind you - it is a company car but?

[Big Dog]

Originally posted by SPman
Well my bike costs me a damn sight more to run than my old Hiace diesel workvan ......but I don't give a shit!

 :D

Yeah but but can you leave a v8 at the lights even in the wrong gear in the van, for that matter I would love to see you get your knee down.:niceone:

[Big Dog]

Originally posted by wkid_one
LOL - my bike costs me shit loads more to run than the car - mind you - it is a company car but?

Pehaps some of the difference between my experience and yours other than the whole company car thing is that I'm a bit of a nanna (I prefer mechanically sensitive). No peels Wheelies or intentional stoppies for me... :(

[SPman]

Originally posted by Big Dog
Yeah but but can you leave a v8 at the lights even in the wrong gear in the van, for that matter I would love to see you get your knee down.:niceone:

Aah, but thats the point. In my shitty old van, I have nothing to prove, no ego to stroke, I couldnt give a toss about the V8 in the next lane! I'm in cruise mode. And on 4 wheels, I know I'm quicker than 90% of the drivers on the road through the twisties .Hell, even in the van I know I'm quicker than 70%. :p  - as long as its not full of tools...

And I get my knee down inside the van heaps of times

Naah - if I want to keep sane - I'm off on my old cantankerous, expensive, pink,generally reliable, pink, fun machine!

 :D

[bikerboy]

I think this is a no win situation, too many individual factors to consider, and if one is being objective fun and racing off at the lights aren't economic factors.:(

My car's insurance is cheaper than my bike's. My car gets better gas mileage. My car was four times more expensive and depreciates much more per year than my bike. My car tires are over twice as expensive but last four times as long but I need twice as many.

My car is almost as fun as my bike. I can certainly go faster in the car than the bike but that's more to do with my abilities. I can leave most cars, even V8's, at the lights in the car if I want.
:D

So, which is more expensive to run, I'm not really sure, but then again I didn't buy either to be economical.:beer:

I do know which I long to be in/on when the weather's fine and the roads are empty.:niceone:

[marty]

hey if we wanted cheap runabouts we'd all drive diesel corollas and ride cx500's (i used to own one - it was CHEAP to run!). now that i drive a commodore wagon (only a V6) and ride an RS250 (worlds cheapest 2 stroke - not) but then again the wife bought the car cause she liked the colour, and my bike cause it looked cool............i always say ya can't spend it when ya dead!

[PZR]

Originally posted by Jackrat
With all the new rules coming in can anyone give a good reason for geting into biking.I,m just returning to riding after two years away,I can,t afford a new bike so that leaves buying used.Seeing as how modern bikes are made to shit themselfs around the five year mark and most exhuast systems don,t last anywhere near that.Go anywhere near a bike shop an you get gutted like a fish,
Yet after market parts are slowly becoming outlawed why would anyone bother.Moden bikes are so complex you have to have them tuned by a dealer who don,t give a ferk about you other than geting your money.You buy an older bike you like an can do all the work on yourself an the Gov,t comes up with bullshit to keep you off the road,Like where the ferk do you get a genuine
exhaust for any jap classic.Maybe I should save my money biking in NZ looks pretty fucked to me.

If you have to ask for a reason to ride again you have my sympathies because you cannot have been on a bike for a while. Actually riding itself is reason enough for me. Can't beat it!!!
Re what type of bike tou want well its all down to personal choice and what the bank balance will stand isn't it?. I ride a twenty year old bike that I paid $500.00 for and after some tidying up and a new paint job it now owes me approx $2500.00. It may not have the raw grunt of a new 120HP machine but it will still do 200kph (more than enough to loose my licience) It still goes round the twisties with more skill than I (currently ) have. it stops just fine. I fix it myself, and oh yes, it still has the original exhausts as well. Soon as I get some digital photos I'll post them as it looks stunning as well. Is riding in NZ fucked? I don't think so, not yet anyway, sure the safety nazis and the PC police are all out to get everyone but shit Im not prepared to roll over and stay in bed all day. I wanna have fun and the bike gets me there. Do not give up dude!! Go to the bike shops with your licience in hand and take some bikes for a ride. Work out what you like to ride. Then go look for what you can afford, just remember to enjoy it :niceone:

[wkid_one]

Originally posted by PZR
If you have to ask for a reason to ride again you have my sympathies because you cannot have been on a bike for a while. Actually riding itself is reason enough for me. Can't beat it!!! 


Ah-MEN

[Jackrat]

Just askin, :argh: :beer: :p

[Redstar]

Jackrat your a very naughty boy for winding us up like this.
In the words of John McEnroe "you can't be serious" there are a few disposable bikes around but they are built to a price like those 150cc racers.
But my bike has all original 13year old fittings and has done 55,000klms and is mint and dynos as new.
yep things have changed.

[marty]

i've got a tidy 400 for sale jack - the (original) exhaust is still mint too!