Bike won't ride straight (RF900)

[manwithav8]

Have had the headset adjusted but could over tightening cause the bike to wander on the road?

Feels like I am fitting it constantly to hold a straight line, which after an hour of riding was hard to do, ended up with huge arm pump. This was due to constantly counter steering against the bike, it felt really tight.

Not so bad at open road speeds but accelerating out if corners the bike wants to stant up which causes a jerky cornering motion, then at town speeds it almost gets to hard to stay in your own lane due to the "wandering"

So all u steering gurus, could having an over tightened headset cause this?
It doesn't make for nice riding, especially when part of the ride from palmy to Wellington was in stop go traffic, felt like I was getting pushed from one side to the other and the arms worn down real quick.

Bike is RF900 and the bushes on the top of the forks are ever so slightly worn.

Anyone got ideas?

[YellowDog]

Mate, you shouldn't be riding this bike. Get it looked at PDQ. Overtighteing the headset sholdn't make it pull, just stiff. If you have checked the wheel alignment for the obvious, then maybe you haven't put everything back in the right order or something is fouling and preventing the headset from sitting true. If you can't find what is wrong, get someone to look at it for you.

[McDuck]

wheil alignment out...

[manwithav8]

Just paid $325 for other issues and a lose headset of which they "adjusted" the wheel alignment had no issues till now so how could it have become crook?all they did was remove and balance front wheel and adjust the headset. I did think of the alignment but it is rather stiff aswell.

Problem is, the work was done in palmy, now the bike be I are in Wellington for the week

[manwithav8]

Mate, you shouldn't be riding this bike. Get it looked at PDQ. Overtighteing the headset sholdn't make it pull, just stiff. If you have checked the wheel alignment for the obvious, then maybe you haven't put everything back in the right order or something is fouling and preventing the headset from sitting true. If you can't find what is wrong, get someone to look at it for you.

I don't think it's pulling, more like if you veer off center, it takes a bit of effort to counter steer, then it goes to far the other way hence the wandering. It feels like it is doing this due to the headset not traversing smoothly, if that's the word for it. You can't make small changes in the direction cos it feels like all or nothing

[LBD]

Check alignment as some earlier said, and also have a very good check of your wheel bearings front and rear, sounds an awful lot like the symptoms of my old dirt bike that lived on the beach with clapped out wheel bearings...

And your swing arm bushes...

[manwithav8]

Check alignment as some earlier said, and also have a very good check of your wheel bearings front and rear, sounds an awful lot like the symptoms of my old dirt bike that lived on the beach with clapped out wheel bearings...

And your swing arm bushes...

will do. Just seems weird how this has happened after it came out of the shop. Only got 12500 miles on the clock

[YellowDog]

Phone the shop and tell them just how dangerously it rides.

Make it their problem.

Good luck.

[Katman]

Loose head stem bearings usually indicates wear in the bearings. Tightening up worn bearings just accentuates the problem.

[CookMySock]

It feels like it is doing this due to the headset not traversing smoothly, if that's the word for it. You can't make small changes in the direction cos it feels like all or nothingjack the bike up and get the front wheel off the ground, and see if the steering moves freely. Sounds like you have a tight or stuffed steering head bearing. If so, it could bind up at any time.. strongly suggest you do not ride it anywhere. You MIGHT be able to back the bearing load off a bit, IF that is the problem. Either way, the bearing is either stuffed, or now its pinched coz it was installed incorrectly.

Steve

[LBD]

will do. Just seems weird how this has happened after it came out of the shop. Only got 12500 miles on the clock

Any of these possible failures are premature, but you never know...keep us postedwhen you do find out.

[Mr Merde]

I had these symptoms on my bike for a long while.

It was discovered that the front wheel had been put on the wrong way. The tyre was placed correctly in the rim but the wheel wasnt fitting inside the forks correctly.

Took the wheel off had the tyre removed, turned the wheel the otherway and had tyre refitted.

No wore handling problems, as described by yourself.

It seems the wheel fitted OK but was 1/8 inch out of line to the rear tyre.

[TLJimmy]

Over tightening can make it 'feel' like it's wandering - because the steering can be too stiff to 'find' it's own centre. I would look at replacing the bearings - they aren't too expensive; get the OEM size and the go to a reputable bearing/engineering shop and get aftermarket bearings of the same size. If you have a workshop manual it is quite easy to change them yourself. If you need specialist tools, these are quite often easy to make; if you need to take off a 'castle' lock nut, you can make the tool for this out of a cheap socket, using a grinder to shape it to fit (you can also use a screwdriver and mallet, but you can't re-torque using this method).

A few years back I didn't know my arse from an angle grinder, now I get a lot of satisfaction, and save a lot of money by doing all my own work on my TL.

[manwithav8]

Over tightening can make it 'feel' like it's wandering - because the steering can be too stiff to 'find' it's own centre. I would look at replacing the bearings - they aren't too expensive; get the OEM size and the go to a reputable bearing/engineering shop and get aftermarket bearings of the same size. If you have a workshop manual it is quite easy to change them yourself. If you need specialist tools, these are quite often easy to make; if you need to take off a 'castle' lock nut, you can make the tool for this out of a cheap socket, using a grinder to shape it to fit (you can also use a screwdriver and mallet, but you can't re-torque using this method).

A few years back I didn't know my arse from an angle grinder, now I get a lot of satisfaction, and save a lot of money by doing all my own work on my TL.

that's the way I see it too, too tight = no self centre. I am a mechanic by trade but of the 4 wheel running on diesel type, not 2 wheel petrol type LOL.
I know bearings are a piece of piss to change and have the tools.

I would like to point out to everyone that has commented about the headset bearings being worn. There was never any play in the head set, it simply lost that preload feeling and turned from lock to lock with no resistance.

The shop said today that the adjustment they had to make was very very minor indeed. I can understand tightening worn bearings won't fix it but the bearings are fine.

The service manager looked over the job sheet, all that was done was balanced front wheel, adjusted low tyre pressures, adjusted head set to manufacturers spec. Nothing else was removed or adjusted.

On the rf there is a bush on top of each of the forks, this locates the forks wthin the solid one piece handlebars. The bushes are a little worn, if you clamp the front wheel between your ankles and move the handlebars from side to side you can feel the forks bottom out on the handlebars. Has been like this before the shop did their thing but did not have this problem.

I am now thinking slightly over adjusted headset and this slight play is not complimenting the adjustment.

So to elaborate, head bearings fine, headset adjusted but slight play in top fork bushes. I can't check the headset where I am right now and I don't have a spring balance if I could jack it up anyway

[F5 Dave]

um

ok let's start again.

The handlebars are rubber mounted on my RF so I suspect this is what you are feeling when yanking at the bars. Only the top piece (the bar plate) will move. That is ok.

Wheel alignment is got to be worth checking, as is wheel fitment if they took this off. Should be able to spot that &/or loosen the captive side, the other side of the fork is threaded (memory shaky on RF, have a few bikes). Alignment can be done with a straight piece of box ally for example held against the rear wheel & compared with front disc on both sides. Std marks on sw are often well out & suzi adjusters sloppy.

But you keep stating the head bearings are ok. Really the only way to tell is get a mate or two to heft the bike on it's sidestand while you grab the bottom of the forklegs & turn side to side with your tongue out feeling for notchyness.

These bikes often get warped discs & that will shag the bearings in short order. Mine felt absolutely appalling on test ride so I changed the disc & bearings when I got it. You could only just feel some notches but more when the forks & wheel were off. Didn't look like much when it was apart either.

Changing the bearings does take some care, do a search here as there are some traps removing bearings from frame & triple clamp, but as a mech should be no drama.

[Mishy]

Could be one of many things in the front end. One possibility is that someone has tightened up worn steering head bearings. That would make the 'notch" either side of centre more apparent than when they were loose. When the bearings wear they generally create a notch just off centre, which leads to a kinda snatchy feel as the steering head moves from side to side. They also kinda catch at a point just off centre, before releasing as they move past that point.
Anyway, it simply must have someone with a few clues look it over. You can't persist with that sort of behaviour - get it seen to.

[manwithav8]

some good posts coming out here. It just so happens I am at tech doing a block course and after speaking the the motorcycle instructor, he and his class are going to look over the bike tomorrow.

Will be good training for his class and he will sort the issue or atleast tell me what's going on.

Will keep u all posted

[manwithav8]

well team, the bike is now mint. Turns out the headset was WELL over tightened. A redjustment by one of the lads training to be a bike mechanic and it rides mint.

Bloody rippa

[ynot slow]

Shit fixed by a bunch of apprentices and supervisor,says a lot about the dealer qualified techs.Scary as my bandit needs servicing soon,and must go to Suzuki dealer(warranty).Hope they know what they are doing.

[Robert Taylor]

Shit fixed by a bunch of apprentices and supervisor,says a lot about the dealer qualified techs.Scary as my bandit needs servicing soon,and must go to Suzuki dealer(warranty).Hope they know what they are doing.

Without elaborating or inferring any further motorcycle mechanics are notoriously underpaid.

[LBD]

well team, the bike is now mint. Turns out the headset was WELL over tightened. A redjustment by one of the lads training to be a bike mechanic and it rides mint.

Bloody rippa


Give that lad a job, and thank the rest of us for advice even when we were wrong, cause we made you give the bike a good check over.....:laugh:

[manwithav8]

Give that lad a job, and thank the rest of us for advice even when we were wrong, cause we made you give the bike a good check over.....:laugh:

Well as it so turns out, was all mint up one side of the takas but heading down the other side the problem came back.

So to all those who said worn bearings, well done, I am eating humble pie LOL.
Still no play though, just a little knotchy at the straight ahead position.

So new question, could the over tightening have caused damage to the bearings? Remember, this problem didn't arise untill the original re adjustment.

[Katman]

So new question, could the over tightening have caused damage to the bearings? Remember, this problem didn't arise untill the original re adjustment.

No, over tightening wouldn't have caused the damage - the 'damage' was already there.

Get the steering head bearings replaced.

[manwithav8]

No, over tightening wouldn't have caused the damage - the 'damage' was already there.

Get the steering head bearings replaced.

Oh the will be replaced, don't worry about that.

Just after knowledge

[F5 Dave]

Big heavy bike, will bugger bearings every so often, although nothing will do it quicker than cack handed wheelies or warped discs. So when you brake heavily does it pulse?

Do a search in these threads, we've gone over bearing changes before, freezing races etc there are some good tips.

[manwithav8]

Big heavy bike, will bugger bearings every so often, although nothing will do it quicker than cack handed wheelies or warped discs. So when you brake heavily does it pulse?

Do a search in these threads, we've gone over bearing changes before, freezing races etc there are some good tips.

I am heavy on the front brakes however there is no feedback through the lever YET.

Discs are in pretty good nick but my check warpage with a DTI

[CookMySock]

No, over tightening wouldn't have caused the damage - the 'damage' was already there.It is possible to damage a bearing by overtightening it, or whacking it in the wrong place during installation (hitting the inner instead of the outer - drift a bearing into place by tapping around its outer, not the inner.)

But I agree that the problem was almost certainly there beforehand. ie, steering head was loose - diagnosis - retighten, when the all that did was make the real problem apparent - fucked bearing!

Good save!

Steve

[manwithav8]

It is possible to damage a bearing by overtightening it, or whacking it in the wrong place during installation (hitting the inner instead of the outer - drift a bearing into place by tapping around its outer, not the inner.)

But I agree that the problem was almost certainly there beforehand. ie, steering head was loose - diagnosis - retighten, when the all that did was make the real problem apparent - fucked bearing!

Good save!

Steve

Yeah good save for now. Still have the ride back to palmy from Wellington to go.

[Mishy]

But I agree that the problem was almost certainly there beforehand. ie, steering head was loose - diagnosis - retighten, when the all that did was make the real problem apparent - fucked bearing!


Yeah, I would agree with you there. Pity nobody thought to check on the condtion of the bearings when they were adjusted. I would have hoped that some consideration would have been made to the condidtion of the bearings that were in need of adjustment. Looseness is just the symptom - people should always ask what the cause is.

[quickbuck]

To be fair, Katman would have, I'm sure.
A tighten (of bearings) is a fix of a symptom.....

As Robert Taylor eluded to... Bike mechanics are notoriously underpaid.....

To add my ten cents worth, I hope we can all learn from what manwithav8 went through, and learn to get head bearings replaced when necessary, rather that "tweeked". It obviously makes a bike a scary piece of kit to ride, and if you are concentrating on a fault with the machine, you are not paying full attention to the road.

[manwithav8]

To be fair, Katman would have, I'm sure.
A tighten (of bearings) is a fix of a symptom.....

As Robert Taylor eluded to... Bike mechanics are notoriously underpaid.....

To add my ten cents worth, I hope we can all learn from what manwithav8 went through, and learn to get head bearings replaced when necessary, rather that "tweeked". It obviously makes a bike a scary piece of kit to ride, and if you are concentrating on a fault with the machine, you are not paying full attention to the road.

Agree with your 2 cents quickbuck, but I beleive it comes down to the experience of the bike mechanic to advise replacement bearings are required. If they adjusted and test rode they should have found that things were not right. Look deeper into the problem. The fact a bike mechanic is underpaid isn't excuse for a half arsed job...

To add to the problem is the right back up from wellington to palmerston north was nothing short of wonderful. The bike perofrmed better than I could have asked. Steering was better than I think i has ever been. I know there is still an issue there and will go ahead an replace the bearings but this fault is intermittant and I can't think of why so playing it safe..

Thanks to all who gave advice etc..

Becareful of those bike shops, I will be paying them a visit tomorrow to question their diagnostic method and also to voice how dissatisfied I am with their service..

[FROSTY]

shagged steering head bearings are NOT an intermittant issue.
Nooone here has actually said this so far I think.
At work kick the side stand down and see if you can get a hefty mate to help ya. Lean the bike to the left till the back wheels in the air Now get your mate to push down hard on the back grab handle.
Bike should now be perched with the front wheel a couple of inches in the air.
Now turn the steering to straight ahead and turn it gently and slowly a few degrees left and right. I suspect you'll feel a a "bit" of a clunk as you go off center. If you feel it thats your problem nailed--buggered bearings.

But so far NOONE has bothered asking about your tyres.
How worn are they,what brand,what tyre pressure and what sizes

[elevenhundred]

shagged steering head bearings are NOT an intermittant issue.
Nooone here has actually said this so far I think.
At work kick the side stand down and see if you can get a hefty mate to help ya. Lean the bike to the left till the back wheels in the air Now get your mate to push down hard on the back grab handle.
Bike should now be perched with the front wheel a couple of inches in the air.
Now turn the steering to straight ahead and turn it gently and slowly a few degrees left and right. I suspect you'll feel a a "bit" of a clunk as you go off center. If you feel it thats your problem nailed--buggered bearings.

But so far NOONE has bothered asking about your tyres.
How worn are they,what brand,what tyre pressure and what sizes

Yup, had a similar problem myself. Bike felt like it was wandering.
When the bike shop did my wof they said I needed to adjust the headset bearings but I suspected they were farked.
Pulled the head bearings out and they were notched, replaced them and even though it was better there was still some residual instability. Replaced the tyre and balanced the wheel and has been good since.

[Subike]

Yup, had a similar problem myself. Bike felt like it was wandering.
When the bike shop did my wof they said I needed to adjust the headset bearings but I suspected they were farked.
Pulled the head bearings out and they were notched, replaced them and even though it was better there was still some residual instability. Replaced the tyre and balanced the wheel and has been good since.

Interested in this post, as my bike has recently started to wander in a straight line. I put it down to road conditions, as it was not huge, just the occasional wiggle.I know that I am due for a new front tyre, and a fork seak needs replacing, so will see if the wandering will dissapear with a new tyre and a new fork seals. . New head bearings were fitted 8 months ago.
Its good to read these threads and get ideas to look at. :Punk:

[Robert Taylor]

Interested in this post, as my bike has recently started to wander in a straight line. I put it down to road conditions, as it was not huge, just the occasional wiggle.I know that I am due for a new front tyre, and a fork seak needs replacing, so will see if the wandering will dissapear with a new tyre and a new fork seals. . New head bearings were fitted 8 months ago.
Its good to read these threads and get ideas to look at. :Punk:

the headraces may well need readjusting, easy to have done whilst the forks are repaired.

[Mully]

Manwithav8 - don't worry about trying to fix it, it's fucked. I'll give you $10.

It's a good offer. I suggest you take it.