Objective lane splitting info update

[dpex]

Went into the lion's den today. Northern office, M/way patrols.

Spoke with a knowledgeable cop (rides a Beemer, so he must be fairly okay...in fact he was a damned nice young bloke).

It became clear that there is no 'specific' rule regarding lane-splitting, per se.

He did mention some arcane rule about one door-width clearance, but admitted that would probably never fly in court.

However, dealing with lane-splitting comes under the rather more open-ended 'perception' of inconsiderate, careless, and dangerous driving.

Apparently, the troops; no doubt at one or more of their meetings, have formally discussed the issue and see no real reason to persecute bikers who lane-split considerately...the emphasis being on 'considerately'.

The general acceptance among the Auckland motoway cops is, "bikers, lane-splitting considerately...and I got the feeling but couldn't get a difinitive yes or no, that passing on the left was more or less okay..... will be left to travel their merry way. But lane-splitters who exceed certainly no more than 60Kph, will be deemed to be driving, at the very least, carelessly."

He cited one case of clocking a biker, who is now on Shank's Pony, lane-splitting at 100Kph. In his opinion, and I'm sure most of ours, such speed would be lunacy.

We also discussed lane-weaving. No probs providing it's done courteously and cautiously. Interestingly, he asserted the cops had some misgivings about signalling by lane-weavers. It seems there is some belief that signalling each lane-change, especially in traffic moving at below 50Kph, can disorient cagers.

Even at speed there is no particluar rule regarding lane-weaving and so, once again comes under the omnipotent 'Perceived danger' rule.

You may well ask about the 3-second indication rule when lane-weaving.

I explored that, also, by asking what is the case if I, when waiting for an opening, have my indicator on, even for several minutes? I would have well fulfilled the 3-second rule.

He laughed at that and agreed. There's just no perfect legislation.

And so. It seems lane-splitting during crawl-hour traffic will not considered an offence providing one does it with due care and caution.

Lane-weaving was a little less clear, but my impression was, "do it injudiciously, within sight of a cop who is having a bad day, and you may well get pinged." Seems fair enough.

The motorway edges.

Once again this subject has not been covered by legislation, per se. And although I couldn't get a specific answer as to the lawful rectitude of bikers using the two outer surfaces, the cop soundly backed up Frosty's comments about tyre-eating litter.

It appears I owe Frosty yet another apology. Apparently, the road-sweepers clear upwards of nine tonnes per month, of very nasty, tyre-popping items off those parts of the Auckland M/way system.

And, as Frosty also asserted, the bike cops hate using those parts to get through traffic.

However, if you're of a mind to use this parts, it seems the same rules apply. If you're doing less than 50/60Kph, the chances are you'll be allowed to pass by without lawful attention.

Covering all of the above, as regards handing out tickets, he asserted, "We're not stupid. Providing the traffic flows and nobody is put in needless danger, we prefer to let matters slide. Furthermore, we're realists. We know that getting a conviction against some biker doing 50Kph, lane-splitting/weaving/using the side areas, is a time-waste because there is no specific rule. Therefore we would have to prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that a biker was riding in one of the three unacceptable categories mentioned."

You'll appreciate the cops have a very tight budget, thus chasing moon-beam charges....charges based entirely upon a perception of a minor misdemeanour....and defended in court, is deemed poor use of budget.

Clear-cut infringements are nearly always prosecuted. But those in the 'subjective', low-calbre infringement area are usually dropped, and in fact, unusually issued. His words, not mine.

I trust this adds a degree of clarity to the matter.

[Blackshear]

So it still all boils down to the demeanor of the policeman?
Cheers for the tips, though. I haven't had the need to lanesplit before, least of all whilst moving.

I still don't like that lane to the far left with the nasties :(

[Edbear]

Thanks for the post! The biker cop was probably the one I pulled aside for and then followed as he split through last week. I pulled aside as he was splitting a wee bit faster than me, as most bikers are due to the width of my bars, and we waved to each other as he passed me.

I often pass cop cars in traffic and always acknowledge them as most pull aside to give me more room. I'm never riding stupidly though and have cringed at times as biker's have passed me at far too high a speed!

I see the regulars each day and we always acknowledge each other as I invariably pull aside to let them past. I'm not splitting that slowly, but as my bars are wide and at the exact same height as the car mirrors, I'm a bit slower getting through.

[Ragingrob]

Nice work! A great summary cheers for that. I have to lane-split quite often and it's nice now to know that they do let it slide unless you're being a dick.

[jrandom]

Stickchick got pulled over by a motorcycle cop on her way home along the northwestern motorway the other evening because she wasn't filtering!

(Which he apparently thought was odd, and worth investigating.)

There's at least one Auckland motorcycle cop who's a cunt, though. Gave one of the downtown bicycle couriers a $150 ticket t'other day for riding the wrong way along an empty Federal St.

:nono:

The only description of him that I have from the lovely young lass in question (yes, he ticketed a GIRL bicycle courier - how totally not-cricket is that?) is that he has a 'big nose'.

So, mister big-nosed motorcycle copper, you are a twat.

The rest of them seem like good sorts, though.

[dpex]

Thanks for the post! The biker cop was probably the one I pulled aside for and then followed as he split through last week. I pulled aside as he was splitting a wee bit faster than me, as most bikers are due to the width of my bars, and we waved to each other as he passed me.

I often pass cop cars in traffic and always acknowledge them as most pull aside to give me more room. I'm never riding stupidly though and have cringed at times as biker's have passed me at far too high a speed!

I see the regulars each day and we always acknowledge each other as I invariably pull aside to let them past. I'm not splitting that slowly, but as my bars are wide and at the exact same height as the car mirrors, I'm a bit slower getting through.

Yeah, I know what you mean. There is certainly some sense of racing when one lane-splitter hoves up behind another. I see it a lot.

I lane-split/weave, and get passed some dude who, prior to my passing, was ambling along. Next minute he's giving it death.

I have to admit though, I'm guilty of much the same thing. May the Lord of Traffic enforcement forgive me. :--))

[FJRider]

So it still all boils down to the demeanor of the policeman?




I think it boils down to the demeanor or the motorcyclist...

Your attitude may change his...

[Kiwi Graham]

Good to hear what I've always considered to be a common sense type rule. I too have passed police cars whilst splitting with no issues. I split up to 40-45k's and if the gap is narrow wait a second or two. The inside near lane is a no go for me, as Frosty says its full of nasties. Well done jrandom.

[Mully]

I regularly filter past Police Occifers on the North Western.

Simply needs a bit of common sense. At the end of the day, if you're being enough of a fool to get a ticket, you are probably at risk of injuring yourself anyway.

Oh, and I move out of the way when faster filterers come up behind me (as can be vouched for by MDU)

[Kemet]

Cheers for the info.

Verry, Very helpful and handy to know!!


The one that pisses me off more is on 50kph roads and scooters pull ridiculously stupid stunts they think is filtering - including cutting in front a truck.

Only reason it didn't get taken out by the truck was because it was in the next lane a second or so later...

Or using cycle lane!! I know the lanes are big enough to fit in but I don't think its right if it means you're also weaving between cyclist as well as cars...

[Dolph]

Excellent post !

Unfortunately I don't think I will ever get to lane split, or weave between lanes,...not much call for that around Kerikeri and Paihia :msn-wink:

And as for them bits on the sides of the road,...well,....they're mainly full of flood water !!

Great info though, cheers !

[Cr1MiNaL]

I luv cops, I think theyre the most clever people in this world.

[Big Dave]

Would you send that as a letter to the editor please.

editor@kiwirider.co.nz

[CookMySock]

That is great information for everyone to have, but take care with it, as IF it treads on anyones toes AT ALL, you will often get a backlash in the form of NEW POLICY MADE TO THE CONTRARY and then put into legislation, and you don't want that to happen on your behalf.

Sometimes things are best left kept-quiet when they are going well.

Steve

[vifferman]

I think it boils down to the demeanor or the motorcyclist...

Your attitude may change his...
From my experience, no; cops generally pull you over having already decided to give you a ticket or a warning. So unless the cop was in a "I'll see what this biker has to say for himself" frame of mind, and then the biker behaves like a twunt, the die is already cast.

By the way - what is "lane weaving"? I have been riding for a long time, and communtering in D'Auckland for over 9 years, and this is the first time I've heard this term.

[Swoop]

Likewise with the description of "weaving".
Do we need to bring wool or something?

[cheshirecat]

Good post.
I filter through slow to stationary traffic. Passed a cop car and asked them if I was allowed to and they just laughed and waved me on. Think it's as per all above, just do it with respect to others safety or been seen to.
As a matter of interest if a car sees me and pulls over I do wave in thanks and this makes a diference as over time more and more pull over. Having said that I've long used up all my nine lives (and traffic goodwill) despatch riding so need to be a bit carefull these days.

[Mikkel]

You'll appreciate the cops have a very tight budget, thus chasing moon-beam charges....charges based entirely upon a perception of a minor misdemeanour....and defended in court, is deemed poor use of budget.


There's at least one Auckland motorcycle cop who's a cunt, though. Gave one of the downtown bicycle couriers a $150 ticket t'other day for riding the wrong way along an empty Federal St.

I bet he doesn't drink G&Ts then.

Time to put one of the theories of dpex's post to the test.

[CookMySock]

Time to put one of the theories of dpex's post to the test.Again, people, please do not test the outer limits of this, or you might find all these lovely fun grey areas of the law get changed into nice definitively clear black and white text, with lots of new rules added, and then everyones' fun and games are over!

I love riding the grey areas of the law too, but please be responsible with this or we will lose it - plenty of other countries have.

Steve

[Anarkist]

So you're saying I shouldn't split at 100km/hr? :confused:

[Edbear]

So you're saying I shouldn't split at 100km/hr? :confused:


Yeah, prolly not a great idea... Too many oblivious car drivers and a very real chance of having one of those, "Oh crap, I'm going to die!" moments...

[dpex]

From my experience, no; cops generally pull you over having already decided to give you a ticket or a warning. So unless the cop was in a "I'll see what this biker has to say for himself" frame of mind, and then the biker behaves like a twunt, the die is already cast.

By the way - what is "lane weaving"? I have been riding for a long time, and communtering in D'Auckland for over 9 years, and this is the first time I've heard this term.

You take two motorway lanes, one in each hand, and you weave them together.

Seriously though. Lane-splitting is passing in the same lane as the car you're passing. Lane-weaving is when you move from left lane to right, betwist cagers, then back again betwixt the next cager ahead.

[dpex]

So you're saying I shouldn't split at 100km/hr? :confused:


I'm not saying you shouldn't. Fill your boots but don't expect any sympathy from an annoyed cop, or a frightened cager who doess the *555 on you.

[Kemet]

... the biker behaves like a twunt....

Twunt?? That's a first for me!! Twunt.....

Twunt....

mmm. Will have to try that one in a conversation this week....

You should have posted that word in this thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=94696).


I bet he doesn't drink G&Ts then.

Time to put one of the theories of dpex's post to the test.

Which theory would that be?? :sherlock: ...or should we run a poll for that one...

[dpex]

I had an interesting experience today, on SH2, just north of the new road. Was driving my cage on account of I took a friend trout fishing at Rotorua.

That's the first time I've driven das cage in ages.

Anyway, despite the fact I'm on the mirrors every 60 seconds or so, I failed to notice a dude on an RGV 150 sneak up behind me. My first notice was the high-pitched whine as he passed a way too close to me, (actually in the left lane...open-road lane splitting, I guess, because b) he passed on that blind right-hander just after leaving the new road.

I have to say I felt a slight sense of shock because the sound preceded me seeing him cos he'd tucked into my blind-spot (my cage is a van, BTW) and when I saw him he was close enough for me to reach out and tap his helmet.

It made me wonder if I shouldn't maybe give cagers a bit more notice before passing via the point-and-go method; given I'm a very experienced cage driver and have done a few thousand hours on my bikes over the years. Yet the pass this lad made caused me to bridle a bit.

Just a thought.

[dpex]

Good post.
I filter through slow to stationary traffic. Passed a cop car and asked them if I was allowed to and they just laughed and waved me on. Think it's as per all above, just do it with respect to others safety or been seen to.
As a matter of interest if a car sees me and pulls over I do wave in thanks and this makes a diference as over time more and more pull over. Having said that I've long used up all my nine lives (and traffic goodwill) despatch riding so need to be a bit carefull these days.


You make a good point, mate. I've been noticing more and more cagers pulling over to let me past, especially on the highways in slow traffic. And like you, I always wave a thanks.

I know it pisses me off when I let some into a space and get no acknowledgement, yet it makes the moment when such a let in does, or some rag-arsed teen waves a thanks to me for stopping at a crossing.

Common courtesy. The more you do the more you attract.

[rebel]

At the end of the day it all comes down to commonsense. We can only hope it is exercised by both our side and from the police. I have been pulled over before by a bikie cop one morning, told me to lane split at speeds below 40kmh, and if I'm weaving thru traffic, indicate (no shit). Good bastard anyway.
Some might remember a few Mondays ago Transit fucked up and only had three city bound lanes open on the bridge... While traffic was nearly stand still I saw a cop on a bike go on the rhs shoulder, which I thought was more frowned on than lane splitting... who knows.

[PuppetMaster]

I get the feeling the rules are different in Wellington. I often see splitting at 100kph, Im not the slowest splitter either and Im often letting others past. Plus, some cunty cop gave me a ticket for splitting, at less than 30kph, told me that I cant split if the vehicles are moving, I told him yes I can, he said I need to read the road rules, I told him least I can read and I'll see him in court. Waste of fuckin time, no way he could prove I was even splitting.

[CookMySock]

[he] told me that I cant split if the vehicles are moving, I told him yes I canYup. The law quite clearly states you can overtake if there is room - even if there is a yellow no-passing line, providing you do not cross that yellow line.

I would just not pay the fine, and force them to take you to court. I seriously doubt they would go through with that.

Steve

[Howsie]

So you're saying I shouldn't split at 100km/hr? :confused:

Just not around cops:Police: