Ultimate test: Britten vs Ducati

[slowpoke]

It's amazing that at the time the Britten was seen as an impossibly exotic creation that was incredibly fast, with a hand crafted price tag to match. To many the V1100 is still seen as the ultimate twin or even the ultimate motorcycle.

Fast forward 17 years and you can now buy a similar capacity twin that makes at least as much power straight off the shop floor complete with lights, starter motor, long service intervals etc and all the road niceties the Britten didn't have, for just a fraction of the price.

Hmmmm just imagine the track test to end all track tests: 1098S Ducati vs Britten V1100. (Hey Shaun, what are you doing on Saturday.....?)

Why am I thinking about this now? 10 years ago this month a Britten won the Daytona Sound of Thunder.

[piston broke]

yep,
imagine if the britten had another 10 years development,it would be wicked.as if it wasn't,isn't.
rip brit.

ed:oops 17 years.time douth fly

[inorganic]

Unfair contest really... Ducati is an industry with tens of thousands of fast reliable superbikes sold every year... Britten was one mans dream ... a fine dream .. but unreliable and overpriced has no future.. hang on ....that was Ducati for a quite a while

[wbks]

Well besides the fact that it was a varying group of dedicated specialists against a billion dollar bike factory, the age difference is a little screwy... Rewind to an old enough IOM race bike and I bet my 250 could clean it up. Would have been cool to see another X years development on the britten and then compare it to a modern 1098.

I got told that ducati learned a thing or two of the britten and incorperated it into their bikes so it might not be so different but on the other hand, a guy who doesn't need to release a certain number of bikes to last for years at a limited price available to most people is more free in options for experimenting with bold ideas, with his income of money. Nothing compared to ducati's, but enough.

[JimO]

why didnt the factory keep making bikes after John Britten Died

[inorganic]

To produce a saleable workable reliable fixable Britten would have required $50 million... any takers?

[piston broke]

why didnt the factory keep making bikes after John Britten Died

cause,it wasn't a factory.
just one man's dream that with help,it was turned into reality.jmo
:clap:to all involved

[JimO]

well i think you will find towards the end they had a factory with a few guys working there

[piston broke]

well i think you will find towards the end they had a factory with a few guys working there

compared to duc,or any of the others?

[JimO]

compared to duc,or any of the others?

course not, but they still had and still have a factory, britten made the bikes used in the fastest indian movie

[piston broke]

course not, but they still had and still have a factory, britten made the bikes used in the fastest indian movie

great stuff,
so are they still making a brit?
p.s i want one(tho gotta win looto first)

[Toot Toot]

I dunno what you all are on about. The Britten clearly dominated the Ducatis on the day by wheelying past them at Daytona. End of story. No more what if's.. it was done and dusted.

Thankyou John Britten and Andrew Stroud.

[LBD]

Be good to see a comparison today not a shoot out best bike , performance, handling comparison, because time and tide and commerce and technology have moved on.

But comparing charac..carach....personality, balls to ride, soul, feelin, the lasting impressions after the ride type comparison...

[jim.cox]

I dunno what you all are on about. The Britten clearly dominated the Ducatis on the day by wheelying past them at Daytona. .

And at Manfield :)

As witnessed by a large and cheering WSB audience

[vifferman]

well i think you will find towards the end they had a factory with a few guys working there
Yup, my wife worked across the road from it when we lived in Chch. On fine days, they'd wheel all the bikes out and sit them in front of the building. :niceone:

There were some innovative things on the Britten, which have since become more commonplace, like EFI/ECU mappable via a laptop, use of CF for body parts, CF wheels, underseat radiator (Benelli), ram air induction, the front suspension (used before by ELF, but never really perfected) that prevented dive under braking (they actually had to adjust it to add some in), the shock under the engine (Buell), etc etc. To see SO many innovative things on a bike together, and working well in concert was amazing. Yes, the power-to-weight ratio is nothing special now, but then if Britten hadn't died, I'm sure more development would've gained some horsies.

[johan]

I dunno what you all are on about. The Britten clearly dominated the Ducatis on the day by wheelying past them at Daytona. End of story. No more what if's.. it was done and dusted.

Thankyou John Britten and Andrew Stroud.

I went to Mr Strouds presentation at Palmerston North a few months ago where he talked about Britten. He explained the wheelies at Daytona was a combination of the position of the swingarm mount and the front's aerodynamic behaviour, that made the front very light at high speeds, and tricky to steer. Not because of incredible power, as one might think.

They later changed the swing arm and redesigned the faring to make the bike behave better.

It's a fascinating story, I just bought the book to learn more!

[vifferman]

Not because of incredible power, as one might think.
It's quoted as having 166hp - while it's not insignificant, it's also not what you'd call 'incredible'.

[enigma51]

There are people out there that believe if the britten had a "normal" fork front end it would have handled better. The no dive caused no feedback or feel for the rider

Then there was the constant breaking down of the bike.

Simply put the bike was way ahead of its time and was prone to breaking.

The fact that Andrew Strout was so successful on it is most likely more to do with his skills than the bike. Now before everyone shoots me down for saying the britten wasnt any good. Let me put it this way

The current motogp ducati is a very good bike............ in stoners hands other struggle with it.

[slowpoke]

There are people out there that believe if the britten had a "normal" fork front end it would have handled better. The no dive caused no feedback or feel for the rider

Then there was the constant breaking down of the bike.

Simply put the bike was way ahead of its time and was prone to breaking.

The fact that Andrew Strout was so successful on it is most likely more to do with his skills than the bike. Now before everyone shoots me down for saying the britten wasnt any good. Let me put it this way

The current motogp ducati is a very good bike............ in stoners hands other struggle with it.

Yep, good points mate.

It would still be an interesting comparison, the Britten is substantially lighter (+20kg's) than the Duc.

Just as inetersting is wondering what we'll be riding in another 15-20years....

[vifferman]

Then there was the constant breaking down of the bike.

Simply put the bike was way ahead of its time and was prone to breaking.
Constant? :confused:
In its first few outings, the things that broke were a battery cable and a cracked cylinder. What else broke?
Given that it was basically a home-made machine, without the years and thousands of km of testing factories do, even if it broke down at every outing, that's still not unreasonable for what amounted to a prototype machine.

[LBD]

Yep, good points mate.

Just as inetersting is wondering what we'll be riding in another 15-20years....

Mobility scooters? Cough cough fer some of us

[slowpoke]

Mobility scooters? Cough cough fer some of us

Haha, may well be so mate!

Mine'll have CRG levers,tapered bars, radial master cylinder/calipers, carbon fibre body work......and now I'm off to PM Dr Bob about Ohlins suspension for a Greypower 2000

[Swoop]

Imagine what would be the result if JB had access to today's CNC milling technology, during the development!

[driftn]

Constant? :confused:
In its first few outings, the things that broke were a battery cable and a cracked cylinder.


The only parts on the bike not made by JB.
Bloody good effort for a back yard D.I.Y.
The Britten has always been the bike of my dreams and always will be no matter how old it or I get.
I think it would smash a 1098 to be honest.
thats my thoughts on the matter.

[imdying]

The only parts on the bike not made by JB.Brake calipers? Rotors? Bearings? Pistons? Conrods? Tyres? ECU?

[wbks]

It's a fascinating story, I just bought the book to learn more!The biography by Tim Hanna? I'm about half way through it now and it's pretty interesting, I feel like I'm overseeing the project in real time:mellow: Right down to the adding of a "wing" in the pits on race day because of the front getting too light at speed like someone here added. Personally I think a modern day Britten would beat the crap out of any twin and put up a good fight with the superbikes with the right rider. But it always will when you compare a purpose built racing prototype that only has to last one race to a modified race bike but they say it was possibly faster than any 4stroke race bike at the time so that is pretty extreme.

I would definitely not call it a backyard project by any means, more money was pumped into the project than ANY of the competition were doing on their race bikes and he was getting pretty good PR as the underdog.

[McWild]

I don't think any other bike made under the Britten name could really ever be a Britten.
It carries his name because it was his creation, it was something he did with limited resources and pure inteliigence.

If there's ever another "Britten", it'll have someone else's last name on it.

[lostinflyz]

The biography by Tim Hanna? I'm about half way through it now and it's pretty interesting, I feel like I'm overseeing the project in real time:mellow: Right down to the adding of a "wing" in the pits on race day because of the front getting too light at speed like someone here added. Personally I think a modern day Britten would beat the crap out of any twin and put up a good fight with the superbikes with the right rider. But it always will when you compare a purpose built racing prototype that only has to last one race to a modified race bike but they say it was possibly faster than any 4stroke race bike at the time so that is pretty extreme.

I would definitely not call it a backyard project by any means, more money was pumped into the project than ANY of the competition were doing on their race bikes and he was getting pretty good PR as the underdog.

a rather good read. unfortunatly it killed a bit of my misunderstanding of what went on,and as such muted the myth of britten a bit but at least it appeared an honest account, not all high in praise.

the bike itself was an interesting one to say the least. The development of the bike was impressive for its day, but technology moves fast. When it was first designed computers were only just starting to become common place,so to compare the past with today is missing the acheivements of the time.

I would have loved to have seen the post-britten version of the bike have a good crack at racing. Much of the fundamental flaws of the bike were corrected (well they were attempting to correct them) and it may really have become an absolute weapon of a thing, in many riders hands.

Either way, despite no longer beleiving the myth it is certainly was an impressive feat of engineering, lack of sleep and will by a group of extremely determined individual.

[98tls]

I went to Mr Strouds presentation at Palmerston North a few months ago where he talked about Britten. He explained the wheelies at Daytona was a combination of the position of the swingarm mount and the front's aerodynamic behaviour, that made the front very light at high speeds, and tricky to steer. Not because of incredible power, as one might think.

They later changed the swing arm and redesigned the faring to make the bike behave better.

It's a fascinating story, I just bought the book to learn more! Great post,cheers.

[JimO]

apparantly John Britten was a arsehole as well

[98tls]

apparantly John Britten was a arsehole as well Eh?Says who?Some family money there for sure but why an arsehole?Not having a crack Jimmy just curious.

[lostinflyz]

Eh?Says who?Some family money there for sure but why an arsehole?Not having a crack Jimmy just curious.

read the book by Tim Hanna. Arseholes probably a bit harsh but i imagine he got called it more than once by several individuals.

[98tls]

read the book by Tim Hanna. Arseholes probably a bit harsh but i imagine he got called it more than once by several individuals. Will do,cheers.

[mikeey01]

apparantly John Britten was a arsehole as well

My 2 cents worth in two and a bit paragraphs.

Not really, he was a man on a mission, he almost always came across as his brain was doing 100mph and more often than not never just chatted, he simple didn't have the time!

On the other hand if you had knowledge on something he wanted to know about, or were willing to help, then he had time for you! and would chat about that subject for ages.

He was a man on a mission, never told anyone what he was going to do, he just set out and did it. Yes he needed some skilled folks around him, this said he wasn't scared to give anything ago either!

[98tls]

My 2 cents worth in two and a bit paragraphs.

Not really, he was a man on a mission, he almost always came across as his brain was doing 100mph and more often than not never just chatted, he simple didn't have the time!

On the other hand if you had knowledge on something he wanted to know about, or were willing to help, then he had time for you! and would chat about that subject for ages.

He was a man on a mission, never told anyone what he was going to do, he just set out and did it. Yes he needed some skilled folks around him, this said he wasn't scared to give anything ago either! Yep good post,often such people are considered arrogant,ignorant etc reality is they have so much going on they barely notice distractions,those trying to gain there attention on matters that to them matter not take there reaction to heart.

[LBD]

Imagine what would be the result if JB had access to today's CNC milling technology, during the development!

They did, NC and CNC. Mace engineering in Chch on Barbados? were very well set up to mass produce complex pieces....

[Kickaha]

I dunno what you all are on about. The Britten clearly dominated the Ducatis on the day by wheelying past them at Daytona. End of story. No more what if's.. it was done and dusted.

Thankyou John Britten and Andrew Stroud.


And at Manfield :)

As witnessed by a large and cheering WSB audience


I don't think it ever dominated a proper factory built WSBK Ducati though

Aynone got any lap time comparisons between the Britten and the WSBK Ducatis from Manfield?

[koba]

I don't think it ever dominated a proper factory built WSBK Ducati though

Aynone got any lap time comparisons between the Britten and the WSBK Ducatis from Manfield?

Just what I was thinking as I read through this thread!

I found this:

"While an Italian-made machine, the awesome blood-red Ducati 888, wrapped up the world superbike title for the third year running, Britten was content merely to compare lap times. He noted the times set by his motorcycle, making its New Zealand debut, alongside those set by the leading internationals at Manfeild.

Palmerston North's Jason McEwen, who was racing a Ducati 900cc in Australia's Superstreet series last season, piloted the Britten at Manfeild over the superbike weekend. his lap times were good enough for the Britten to finish among the top ten of the international superbikers. "I'm quite pleased with how the bike went," he said. And so he should have been, the Britten/McEwen combination easily won the two support races for twins."

[Swoop]

They did, NC and CNC. Mace engineering in Chch on Barbados? were very well set up to mass produce complex pieces....
Interesting. That would make production of more bikes much easier. :shifty:
Hopefully someone will have the resourcing to make this possible one day. Look at what easy, accurate repetition has done to (globally) assisting the warbird rebuilding business.

[wbks]

Yea a lot of the things he does described in the book could give people the impression of him being an asshole I guess but if you read more it certainly lets you look past that and see a lot more to him than either the backshed worker that seems to be how people think of him or the asshole others apear to think of him...