Local school or "better" school? [Archive]

BuFfY

25th March 2009, 20:06

When enrolling your children in a new school, what factors do you take into consideration? Do you go to the local school because it is close, or do you look around and pick the school that you like best?
Does decile ranking/ roll size/ ethnicities within the school factor in your decision? Or is it all about the image of the school?

I teach at a very small school in East Auckland and I am very curious as to why parents decide on the school they send their child.

jaymzw

25th March 2009, 20:15

I was sent to my school(still there) because of the Catholic Character. Im not Catholic and neither are my parents so whats up with that?
But the small roll (600 students) means everyone gets looked after. My school is decile 9 i think. To be honest i think my mother just didn't think she could trust me around girls. No decent reason to go there but i suppose as you have said my school has a high decile, small role size, a large variety of ethnicitys.

EDIT: and for the record i wouldn't say that my school would be any 'better' than other schools,

JimO

25th March 2009, 20:21

my boys go to the local and closest school, the "best " schools arnt that far away but we decided that they will get the education they need without the old buildings etc. I asked their teachers and the headmaster at their intermediate school and they all said that if the boys want to do well at school they will do well werever they go. they are in the top class in their form and in the top of that class, one has been asked to put his name forward for head boy next year

Mully

25th March 2009, 20:44

I went to the local primary schools - no point in polishing a turd.....

BiK3RChiK

25th March 2009, 20:47

BuFfY

25th March 2009, 20:54

98tls

25th March 2009, 21:03

sunhuntin

26th March 2009, 07:16

i think if i had kids, id move towns. i dont think id send kids to any school in this town. the primary ones are "ok" but the intermediate and high schools are shit. we have two intermediate options. rutherford, which is full of no hopers, and wanganui intermediate, which is full of the no hopers that rutherford didnt have room for. [plus the principal is a massive perve. was always looking at the girls legs when i was there]

we have one good high school, but thats like a couple thousand a term. the other schools are just shit. city takes the kids from rutherford, girls takes the leftovers from them, and so does high school. just yesterday a fight between city and high school girls put one in hospital. no way id send my kids into that environment.

hell... i think thats half the reason i dont want kids!

MisterD

26th March 2009, 07:26

Interesting thread,many many years ago when 8 i was sent off to boarding school,big bucks,quality teachers blah blah blah,made no difference to be honest.Ive done well but looking back the school i went to decided nothing.

That's my feeling too, if your kid's smart and has the right support at home there's not a whole lot the school can add to or detract from the result. (Discounting the obvious ready-made influence network you get from somewhere like Grammar.)

There are good teachers in "bad" schools and crap teachers in "good" ones...however you want to define good and bad, although none of the information available to parents really enables you to judge. You may as well pick the one with the uniform you like the best...

yungatart

26th March 2009, 07:31

I'm with Mr D on this (kind of)
My kids attended Catholic primary schools...but when it came to high Schools I chose based on the needs of the particular child. Courses available, the kid's personality and educational "must haves' (eg music, support for leaning difficulties etc)

Tank

26th March 2009, 08:00

When it came to my childrens education, I chose the best available to me. We have a local College in our town, but no way are my kids going there! Rather, I sent them to a school in a neighbouring town 15 to 20 minutes away by bus that I have to pay for.

Always choose what's best for your kids IMO.

I agree. We are lucky in that our son is gifted smart. 18 months ahead in school. Topped out the class in every subject in the 'gifted' program that the school runs every year for the last 3 years.

Did the Australasian exams - finished in the top 1% of students for 2 subjects and in the top 5% in the other 3.

In a independent learning center at the moment and again coming at the top of the class.

Out local high school sucks. The next one that is OK is huge - and is the largest high school in NZ - so we know he runs the risk of being lost.

We have 2 private schools within 10 mins of the house. We are sending him to one of those - class sizes of 12 for selective classes (physics etc) and a max of 25 for core subjects (English etc).

The school dosnt do the NCEA which we like as we think that's a waste of time - (another thread that one) - they only do the Cambridge exams and come in the top 1% of all Cambridge schools in the world.

Unfortuantley last night I got told what it was going to cost. Me thinks that there are some big sacrifices coming up for the next 5 years. :cry: and I've already been told that the second bike is a no-fricken-way.

jaymzw

26th March 2009, 20:13

Out local high school sucks. LONG BAY
The next one that is OK is huge RANGITOTO

We have 2 private schools within 10 mins of the house. We are sending him to one of those KRISTEN OR PINEHURST?

Yeah i agree about Long Bay,

And knowing some people attending Rangitoto i don't think it's much better especially as you said it would be so easy to "get lost in the system"

Usarka

26th March 2009, 20:21

No point in spending shitloads on a quality education if your kid is not an academic, the school likely won't change much.

The major thing imho that separates an really expensive hoity school and an average+ decile public school is there is more chance of getting into an old-boys club so you can become company director or judge in 20 years.

BiK3RChiK

26th March 2009, 20:36

What about for primary school? Hopefully you aren't speaking about that in your post!

Heh, no my kids went to the local primary school which is a very good school.

It's a real head warp, innit? I stressed about it for an age too...

rachprice

26th March 2009, 20:37

I went to a decile 1 school and decile 3 high school and I turned out ok
Its what you make of it, if they are motivated enough it doesn't matter

MotoGirl

26th March 2009, 20:46

I don't have kids but based on my education (or lack of) it would be important to send my kids to a school that has time to put into the kids with potential.

Unfortunately so many things are geared to the kids falling below the norm and the smart cookies get neglected. It's not good for smart kids to be put in an environment where they aren't encouraged to learn or put in any effect (especially if things come naturally to them). All this does is lead to poor study habits and they'll potentially stay with them forever.

Usarka

26th March 2009, 20:48

Thats a good point MG. Smart kid breezes through shit school thinking "hey I'm smart I don't need to work hard"......

rachprice

26th March 2009, 20:59

Nah I dont think that's necessarily right
I think NCEA has a lot to do with kids hitting uni and not knowing how to study or work (not that my 'study' for bursary was even a fraction compared to my first year of university)

While my schools were a low decile, they both went out of their way to give me, and others, extra opportunities in the form or trips for leadership courses and chances to sit exams years earlier, with teachers taking time out of school hours to give us tuition

Virago

26th March 2009, 22:16

MisterD

27th March 2009, 08:49

All this does is lead to poor study habits and they'll potentially stay with them forever.

Have you been talking to my University tutor?

MisterD

27th March 2009, 08:54

Thats a good point MG. Smart kid breezes through shit school thinking "hey I'm smart I don't need to work hard"......

Don't blame the school - if you ace what's on the curriculum it's not the school's fault. I drifted through a good (highly rated comprehensive) school and got all A's and B's except for a slight SNAFU with my French...the exams were just too easy.

MotoGirl

27th March 2009, 09:10

Don't blame the school - if you ace what's on the curriculum it's not the school's fault. I drifted through a good (highly rated comprehensive) school and got all A's and B's except for a slight SNAFU with my French...the exams were just too easy.

It can be the school's fault if the kid is finding the work too easy and the school doesn't provide anything else.

I was a naughty kid (caused by being bored and unstimulated) and my teacher would separate me from my group of friends as a form of punishment. Because I wasn't distracted by my classmates I had nothing to do but work. In a very short time I had chewed through a week's work so the teacher put me back with my friends to slow me down again.

My previous school may be an exception, being small and rural but I imagine similar things happen elsewhere. I asked my parents to send me to intermediate but they refused because of the extra hassle. Instead, I just wound up causing continuous trouble and never having to work for high grades.

sunhuntin

27th March 2009, 10:11

I always think that Decile Ratings are an unfortunate social label. Alas, we live in a society where class snobbery and social climbing is ingrained.

My own kids went to the local primary school - Decile 4. I spent six years on the BoT. It was disappointing to see some local kids walk past the school gate, to go to the school down the road - Decile 8 - perceived by many parents to be "better".

agreed. around the corner from us are two primary schools. they are maybe 200 meters apart. one is a catholic school which has a unifrom. the other is a public with no uniform. the public one was recently listed in the local rag as i think decile two due to its location. how then can the catholic school NOT be the same decile rating?

MisterD

27th March 2009, 11:12

how then can the catholic school NOT be the same decile rating?

The ministry calculates the decile rating from census information against student addresses supplied by the school - not from where the school happens to be.

sunhuntin

27th March 2009, 11:14

the paper put it down to where the school was based. typical shitty local rag getting facts wrong again.

Tank

27th March 2009, 11:57

I always think that Decile Ratings are an unfortunate social label. Alas, we live in a society where class snobbery and social climbing is ingrained.

My own kids went to the local primary school - Decile 4. I spent six years on the BoT. It was disappointing to see some local kids walk past the school gate, to go to the school down the road - Decile 8 - perceived by many parents to be "better".

Decile is based on the supposed amount of money the parents have and subsequently the higher decile schools are supposed to expect more parent funding.

HOWEVER - the decile rating of a school should have no bearing on the perception of the quality of the school. There are many more reports out there qualifying the variances in educational quality. Decile simply is not a measure of that.

All schools here are decile 10 - however there is a huge difference in quality.

neels

27th March 2009, 12:19

We sent our kids to the local primary school close to where we lived instead of a supposedly 'better' school that we would have to drive them to every day, even though it was probably not considered a 'desirable' school. They did a bloody good job of looking after our kids, sorting out extension programs in the subjects they were good at etc etc. And the bonus that they make friends with people in the area that they live in so can see them out of school.

For high school we successfully balloted both of our kids for single sex schools that are on our bus route, otherwise they would have gone to the high school that we are zoned for. Unless the school is really really bad it's up to the kids how well they do, and I'd rather they were at a local school than spending time & money carting them to a supposedly better school, or fronting up heaps of money for them to be the poor kid at a private school full of rich kids.

Number One

27th March 2009, 13:24

We looked around and took advice from friends. For us it was very important that the principal and teachers were interested in a real 'partnership' between school and home and while they all kinda say they are you KNOW when talking to them exactly how deep that one goes.

Also we wanted a school with a strong positive culture - one that expects the kids to treat each other right and takes a proactive approach to teaching the kids some values. That is not to say that we don't do this stuff at home BUT as it is plainly obvious kids are strongly influenced by their little friends and what goes on at school so it was important that similar values were reinforced in the school community as what we feel are important at home too.

ALSO we wanted a school where the relationships between teachers and kids looked positive and when touring with principal of the school we enrolled in the kids were falling over themselves to get the principals attention and she would stop and chat with them all and knew all their names and the teachers were really welcoming too.

Our selection went right down to details though - experience of the teachers, their tenure at the school, the layout of the school and the outdoor equipment...as well as how uncluttered the classrooms were.

So far things have gone really well. I have no doubt we picked the right school - no it isn't the closest - heard awful stuff about the school closest and the one we thought would be where he ended up had quite inexperienced teachers (in terms of what we needed) and the principal was an elder gentleman who clearly liked the sound of his own voice. Made lots of very generous statements that sounded like all the things you would want to hear yet upon further inspection and talking with him it all sounded like empty promises to be honest.

Phew - it's a big decision anyway and one that I think most parents much fret over...well if they give a shit and understand just how important school (especially that first one) is.

Tank

27th March 2009, 13:27

, or fronting up heaps of money for them to be the poor kid at a private school full of rich kids.

I think that this is a common misconception.

There are many, many, many parents who make huge sacrifices to send their kids to fee paying schools. Not all the parents (or even the majority) are necessarily 'rolling in it'.

Number One

27th March 2009, 13:37

Actually decile ratings are apparently related to the average of:
WAGE of the Fathers and
Educational achievements of the Mothers :rolleyes:

firecracker

27th March 2009, 20:33

Decile ratings are a reasonably fickle business. From a financial perspective, it's in a school's best interest to have a slightly lower one as they receive more government funding. Which is transferred onto parents/caregivers in the form of lower fees. It is ignorant to base your decision solely upon a school's decile rating.

It is important to choose a school that fits with the individual and within the family's means. Check out what the school's strengths are eg; sporting, cultural, academic. Visit the school and have a chat with the principal, DP or senior teaching staff and read over the prospectus.

Taking a walk around the school will soon give you an indication on it's tone, how do the students wear their uniform? how much pride is taken in the appearance of the school? What behaviour management programmes are in place?

Also, if you have above average children, does the school run accelerant programmes for them? Does the school run after school tutorials or study sessions?

You can also research the school online by reading the latest ERO report. Which is an indication of the school's strengths, areas for improvement and academic success at senior assessment levels.

At the end of the day, a student who has a genuine interest in learning will learn. Posh school's VS state school's have similar problems. They just look different.

Tank

28th March 2009, 11:51

I was with you right up to the comment:

Posh school's VS state school's have similar problems. They just look different.

Just because a school is private does not mean that its posh - you comment simply reenforces that stereotype.

One should remember that Auckland Grammar is a state school - and that is somewhat more posh than most private schools.

Winston001

28th March 2009, 12:35

The major thing imho that separates an really expensive hoity school and an average+ decile public school is there is more chance of getting into an old-boys club so you can become company director or judge in 20 years.

Not these days - ability outshines connections.

When it came to my childrens education, I chose the best available to me. We have a local College in our town, but no way are my kids going there! Rather, I sent them to a school in a neighbouring town 15 to 20 minutes away by bus that I have to pay for.

Always choose what's best for your kids IMO.

Totally agree. Great thread. You only educate your children once - it isn't an experiment. One chance.

When my kids were small I had this idealistic thought of sending them to a low decile school so they'd mix with all sorts of kids and families, and learn to value their own good fortune.

But when the day came, we bypassed the nearest (pretty good) primary school for a decile 10 where we believed in the principal. It was the right decision. All of my 3 children became school leaders and are doing well at high school.

I don't think there can be any rule. Each child is different and may thrive at different schools but thats often not practical. Education begins at home and children who are encouraged, taught good values, and have their imagination stimulated, should succeed whatever school they go to.

Winston001

28th March 2009, 13:00

Just a note about decile ratings. Its unfortunate that high decile schools or private schools are seen as snobby or hoity. They aren't - they are simply schools. High decile isn't necessarily best and there was a time private schools struggled to exist.

But - as a starting point, decile 10 tells you the community around that school has resources. Its actually a negative for parents because decile 10 gets the lowest government funding meaning the kids come home every week with raffles, sausage sizzle lists, fund-raising nights et-bloody-cetera......it never ends. But it works.

High decile schools typically have resources not available in low decile schools. Our school hall was built by parents - most other newish schools don't have halls. There are data projectors and computer carousels. Hell, we (parents) bought a full set of dictionaries because the Ministry of Ed don't supply them!!

Because of the resources (and the children tend to be well-behaved) high decile schools attract great teachers. They like the extra stuff that's available, having requests for class-sets met, extra parent-funded teaching support. Its a relief from having to focus on trying to simply control a class-room and deal with disturbed kids from some pretty sad backgrounds.

I know a bit about this because my wife and I involved ourselves in our childrens primary education and my wife spent 6 years on the Board - four as Chair. She went through changes of principal and education reforms and it was in many ways an horrendous experience.

Leaving all of that aside, my core advice is to look hard at the principal. Talk to other parents. Leaving aside decile, the principal makes or breaks a school.

jrandom

28th March 2009, 13:46

yungatart

28th March 2009, 15:48

I think the main drawback of lower-decile schools would be the nature of the other kids.

It's difficult for one's children to prosper when surrounded by others who're not well looked after and/or have to survive in an abusive home environment, and it seems to be an unfortunate fact that the incidence of such negative family situations rises as the socioeconomic level drops.

That is an incredibly inane comment from one who prides himself on his intelligence.
You stoop daily to new lows, JR.
One of the consistently best rated primary schools in NZ is a Decile 1 in Flaxmere (Irongate)
It has a rich cultural diversity, awesome caring and committed teaching staff and beautiful, happy children. The success of this school speaks volumes, almost as loud as your prejudices....

Usarka

28th March 2009, 15:55

I went to a low decile school. I'm one of the minority who are looked upon as being an outstanding success. IE. I haven't been to prison or been on the dole since leaving school.

Tank

28th March 2009, 16:03

I haven't been to prison or been on the dole since leaving school.

Yet

<10char>

Nasty

28th March 2009, 16:07

I went to a low decile school. I'm one of the minority who are looked upon as being an outstanding success. IE. I haven't been to prison or been on the dole since leaving school.

There are many of us in this situation .. and most of us don't let stupid idiots who make pathetic assumptions affect us. Mind you we also have it in us to prove those arseholes wrong. Daily!

Usarka

28th March 2009, 16:09

Yet

<10char>

Yep, both are a possibility at the moment..... :doh:

Tank

28th March 2009, 16:12

There are many of us in this situation .. and most of us don't let stupid idiots who make pathetic assumptions affect us. Mind you we also have it in us to prove those arseholes wrong. Daily!

In fairness - I dont think that as many people make the assumptions as people think.

Seriously - very few people care what school people went to. Once you leave school - its all up to the person regardless of what school they came from.

The 'ol boys from school network isnt that big in NZ and to be honest running around like a cock because of the school you went to does not endear you to many people at all.

(Talking about the Grammar etc types - Not you Nasty (you rock :headbang:- despite all the infractions you give me :dodge:)

Tank

28th March 2009, 16:15

True Story.

I was being interviewed for a high level consulting position at Barings bank in the UK.

Very, Very exclusive place. Very, Very posh.

Sat in room with 'ol boys who all talked with plums in mouth.

Was asked "Where was one educated"?

Truthfully I answered "Cambridge"

"Oh another Cambridge lad - ay wot - your hired"

Didnt have the heart to tell them Cambridge High school (just out Hamilton) - not the top UK university.

Took the job and never told them.

skidMark

28th March 2009, 16:47

I went to the local primary schools - no point in polishing a turd.....

I don't quite know how to take that...

i went to the local primary too....

i like to think im a nicely poished turd.:lol:

jrandom

28th March 2009, 16:59

It has a rich cultural diversity...

AKA 'almost no white faces'.

:laugh:

Not that that's a bad thing, of course.

awesome caring and committed teaching staff and beautiful, happy children. The success of this school speaks volumes...

And I'm very happy for it.

Unfortunately, this is something I can prove with statistics and whatnot. Anywhere in the world, there's a higher incidence of social dysfunctionality at the lower end of the economic spectrum. S'just the way it seems to work. Surely you're not arguing with that?

MSTRS

28th March 2009, 17:31

Unfortunately, this is something I can prove with statistics and whatnot. Anywhere in the world, there's a higher incidence of social dysfunctionality at the lower end of the economic spectrum. S'just the way it seems to work. Surely you're not arguing with that?
You could be right, I guess. Scum usually floats to the top, where it's more visible.
Of course, one does find a better class of scumbag at the private schools, doesn't one?

BuFfY

28th March 2009, 17:36

I think deciles in schools cause a lot of problems for the schools that are not a decile ten. The cause even more problems for schools that have a decile that doesn't match the school! We had ERO in at school last week and they told us that we aren't performing up to a decile seven standard, and that (looking at superficial things - her words, not mine) we do not look like a decile seven school either. Our argument is, we shouldn't be a decile seven school! We had one child in our school last year who was from Whitford, and a number from Howick, who pushed our decile up. We are the highest decile in our area, even though we have the poorest kids!

Deciles only get allocated every third year, matching up with the census, so we have another two years (I think) being decile seven.

The worst part is that because we are decile seven, and only have 82 children, we get sweet bugger all funding. And 'relying on the parents' doesn't work!

In saying all of that, the children at our school are outstanding. Last year we won the regional talent quest we entered, have won all the sporting events we have entered and, most importantly, the children are happy at school.

Harvd

28th March 2009, 19:08

I went to a public school and am doing engineering now at uni, its interesting watching people i know went to expensive private schools struggle without the helping hand that they were offered at school. Thier work habits are completely different. i think private schools are really only going to help those who are super bright and motivated. if they arnt motivated they arnt going to do very well anywhere so its a waste of money.

firecracker

28th March 2009, 19:45

I was with you right up to the comment:
"Just because a school is private does not mean that its posh - you comment simply reenforces that stereotype."

Quite right. Truth remains that private schools come complete with this stigma and a reasonable amount of kudos attached for a reason.

jrandom

29th March 2009, 08:43

Of course, one does find a better class of scumbag at the private schools, doesn't one?

Quite possibly... tell you what, though, even if I could afford it, I wouldn't want to send my kids to one. I loathe the perceived upper-class mentality that they'd be programmed with. Even if it is only an external perception.

And, to be honest, I think that anyone, from any background, has the potential to do well at university and out in the real world.

I don't think that expensive primary and secondary schooling makes a whit of difference; it's the parents and the dedication of each individual teacher (and I've been pleasantly surprised with how many primary school teachers really do care) that counts.

MSTRS

29th March 2009, 08:59

I think the main drawback of lower-decile schools would be the nature of the other kids.

I loathe the perceived upper-class mentality that they'd be programmed with.

So...somewhere beige in the middle would be ok with you?

And, to be honest, I think that anyone, from any background, has the potential to do well at university and out in the real world.

Now, that I can agree with

jrandom

29th March 2009, 09:09

So...somewhere beige in the middle would be ok with you?

Life does have options beyond poverty and criminality, upper-class snobbishness, and beige, y'know.

:laugh:

Winston001

29th March 2009, 21:52

T
One of the consistently best rated primary schools in NZ is a Decile 1 in Flaxmere (Irongate)

It has a rich cultural diversity, awesome caring and committed teaching staff and beautiful, happy children. The success of this school speaks volumes, almost as loud as your prejudices....

Yes that school's success is a heads-up for those who say decile 1 schools can't achieve. It begs the question tho - why aren't other decile 1 schools doing the same?