RGV150 for bucketing [Archive]

hmurphy

27th March 2009, 02:33

Hey guys, would a 1999 RGV150 be ok to go bucketing with if it was carbed down? My mate owns one that gets used for commuting, but he would far rather bucket it. Is there any way we can modify it so that it can go bucket racing without having to change the engine?

If he has to change the engine, would a TS125 motor be ok for the job and will it be easy to mount in a RGV150 frame? The other obvious things will be done to the bike (e.g. lower clip-ons (much much lower!!), fairing and lights removal etc.)

Cheers!

gav

27th March 2009, 05:50

No, read the rules. If its a two stroke, maximum of 125cc (approx) with equivalent of a 24mm carb.
TS125 would be fine. You'd have to try it and see if it would fit. Let us know how you get on.

nudemetalz

27th March 2009, 07:35

F5 Dave

27th March 2009, 09:56

There are a couple of people who have sleeved RGVs down to 125, but it is a comparatively expensive process & I wish I never started. However if someone was savvy I still have the barrel that would be a good start & competitive.

Buckets4Me

27th March 2009, 12:01

ask John if he intends racing it in auckland (no points thow)

then when he blows it up he can put an aircooled 125 in
or a linchon???150

nudemetalz

27th March 2009, 12:53

I strongly recommend not putting a LongChin 150 into an RGV150 frame.
It is more hassle than it's worth.

"But that's what you've done" I hear you say.
Exactly......

Korea

27th March 2009, 17:44

Put a Yamaha RX125 engine in the RG frame - like mine.
Got mine by way of Shellracing in Auckland - talk to him. :yes:
Oh yeah - it's not too shabby IMHO. NB. Pic is of an RX125 - not mah bucket.

Skunk

27th March 2009, 20:57

I strongly recommend not putting a LongChin 150 into an RGV150 frame.
It is more hassle than it's worth.

"But that's what you've done" I hear you say.
Exactly......
That's the same reason I tell people not to use an AX100 as a bucket.

hmurphy

29th March 2009, 15:39

Ok... so we have bought a TS125 bike, everything all works on it! It is a runner, but a rusty runner. The motor seems to be in great condition and isn't as slow as I thought it would be!
We have taken the motor out of the bike and will hopefully mount it in the RGV150 frame tonight.

Now... big question! Does anyone know where we could get ahold of a CHEAP YZ125 or RM125 or any of those other performance 125cc two stroke expansion chambers? Also 24mm carb? And how about some 17" wheels (I think that is the recommended size) and tires for the RGV150?

We are hoping to have this bad boy finished by the Easter weekend!! Cheers!

nudemetalz

29th March 2009, 17:51

Hey Hamish,

Good to hear it's coming along well !!! :niceone:

Does anyone know where we could get ahold of a CHEAP YZ125 or RM125 or any of those other performance 125cc two stroke expansion chambers?

Try
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Exhaust/auction-210474074.htm
or
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Exhaust/auction-209637278.htm

Mufflers for a 125 are cheap
eg
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Exhaust/auction-209638076.htm

Also 24mm carb? And how about some 17" wheels (I think that is the recommended size) and tires for the RGV150?

We are hoping to have this bad boy finished by the Easter weekend!! Cheers!

See Skunk about the carb. He may have one.
As for 17's, you can do what I did and use a front wheel for the back.
No need for the rubber cush drive on a race bike
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Wheels/auction-209367150.htm
or maybe this
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Wheels/auction-210450007.htm
or
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Wheels/auction-210432321.htm
This should give you some ideas.

Cheers
Nudey

hmurphy

29th March 2009, 18:07

Hey thanks Nudey! You have been a big help! I think I might owe you a beer! I will keep y'all updated on the progress. Photos may come soon too!

Cheers!

Skunk

29th March 2009, 21:57

I'm pretty much out of any useful stuff now. The odd bit and piece is all that's left. The only 24mm carbs I have are already in their homes. Sorry I can't help.

matoc

30th March 2009, 15:50

Howdy, thought I'd put some pics up of the progress we're making! Biggest thing now is to mount the engine obviously, but it's looking pretty sweet!

Oh and sorry bout the grainy quality, couldn't find the damn flash!!

hmurphy

30th March 2009, 15:52

Hopefully measure out the mounts tonight.... and possibly weld them! Btw, we have never ever done any of this before. Totally winging it and it is going GREAT!

phoenixgtr

30th March 2009, 16:02

Brilliant!! Good to see ya giving it a go

nudemetalz

30th March 2009, 16:14

Nice one :niceone:

I see hints of Lady Penelope in there... ;)

matoc

30th March 2009, 17:07

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Wheels/auction-210432321.htm

Thanks for the tips so far, Chris. Just a question, do you reckon that RG150 wheel will fit in the RGV frame reasonably easily? Are the axles about the same size? How about the wheel width? I don't really want to try widening the swing arm.

BTW, I'm the tall bloke who relieved you of your RGV indicators a few months back. Won't be needing those now though, haha!

Cheers!

hmurphy

30th March 2009, 20:25

I don't really want to try widening the swing arm.

You sure? Nothing a mallet can't fix! It has worked well so far!! Hopefully we will have more pictures up of the engine mounted in it! And we think the bike has a name.... just tossing up between a couple of ideas. Will be unveiled on the 12th!!

Yeah once again, thanks Chris! You have been a big big help! We took this thing down a few hills today with corners. Feels way way better with the clip-ons lower and the forks through the triple tree more! Definately looking forward to getting the engine in this puppy.

nudemetalz

30th March 2009, 21:06

Glad I can help !!!

The RG rear wheel should fit, I think the axle sizes are the same. Don't widen the swingarm.
What you will have to do is either modify existing or make different spacers to get the wheel in centre with the swingarm. Also be aware that you will now have a disc rear not drum so you'll have make a caliper mount to the RHS spacer. Also you have to buy a complete caliper assy.
The Chinese ones will do I think like this
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Brakes/auction-210738975.htm

Bit of work involved but worth it in the end.

Another thing. When mounting the engine, try and get the sprocket as close to the swingarm pivot as possible and try to get it level also so the chain keeps it's ideal slackness with the suspension moving up and down. If you're unsure what I mean, give me a call.

Cheers

matoc

31st March 2009, 00:28

Would anyone happen to have an RGV150 front sprocket? Turns out that the TS125 and RGV150 have the same front sprocket, but sadly mine has been geared up a tooth or two so its acceleration is pathetic.

F5 Dave

31st March 2009, 08:21

Gee, maybe try a bike shop I've heard they have them. Seriously for short tracks you will need super low gearing. After market sprockets will be cheap JT for instance. So buy the smallest & next smallest avail & you should be right for most short tracks.

matoc

1st April 2009, 21:27

Well here are some more pics! We finished welding the main two engine brackets on so it's sitting in there pretty snugly. Now we've just got the front two (which will be easy), the exhaust system (which definitely will not be) and the wiring. Then it'll be troubleshooting time!

nudemetalz

1st April 2009, 21:37

Awesome !!!!! :2thumbsup

I think the main concern you have now is the Nut behind the handlebars is a bit loose..... :crazy:

hmurphy

1st April 2009, 22:04

The nuttier the better! Still have a little bit of welding to do and if we have to modify the pipe, the mig welder we are using won't be appropriate. So we are hoping we aren't in too much shit with that.

As for the wiring, we are going to sort of wing it. Not that anything else we have done wasn't winging it! Hmmmm.

gav

1st April 2009, 22:44

Why not clean that carb up and give the motor a lick of paint?
Looking good otherwise ... :niceone:

hmurphy

1st April 2009, 23:29

Giving it a paint job is DEFINATELY on the cards. But not until this bastard can run! Still many hours left. Also that carb is going to be replaced before it is [hopefully] raced on the Sunday of Easter weekend. We have found a guy who can sell us a 24mm carb! We also have a smaller front sprocket on the way (the current one is far too big) and hopefully a new chain being ordered tomorrow.

Just a quick question, how hard is it to wire the engine up? By this I mean to get the spark to run off the generater thing (very technical lingo) and to be switched on (to complete the circuit) by the key? Just your thoughts or experience on this. We have all the right gear and parts for the job.

I am thinking a pink paint job for the fairy that will be riding it, huh Matt?

hmurphy

5th April 2009, 16:10

Is it ok to weld on the frame with the engine mounted in the frame? I am not sure if anything will get destroyed. We are using a mig welder.

Also, we tried crash starting it today (with the old TS125 pipe, the expansion hasn't arrived yet) and we had no success. We are positive that it is our wiring. We are finding it damn hard to get that sorted. Take a look at this:
http://smokeriders.com/diagrams/Suzuki/Singles/TS_TC125schemw.gif
It is a diagram of the TS125 wiring. Looks a lot more complicated with the wires infront of you.

We are going to fix up our engine mounts then we will have to sort wiring. If anyone that lives in the Wellington area wouldn't mind coming over later this week to help with wiring, that would be much appreciated. Will supply a few beers. Fingers crossed that this bucket will make the Sunday race

nudemetalz

5th April 2009, 16:50

Should be fine welding the engine in place. What you want to do is just tack it, then remove the engine to properly weld it.

With regards to the wiring, what I've done in the past is get a diagram like you've done and then re-draw it to only the wires you require (eg coil, battery, magneto, rectifier)
Then use coloured felt pens to draw them. Makes it so much easier to follow.

I can help if you get really stuck though.

hmurphy

5th April 2009, 17:07

Yeah i have cut the diagram down to the wires we need, but the engine still didn't want to start. Will hopefully have a better crack at it later.

Yeah we have been tacking, but our welding skills suck ass. We have gotten much much better though. We will try mount the motor completely and tack the mounts on around it, then remove.

We aren't using a battery for the engine either because that is how the original TS came like.
Cheers for the help!

Kendog

5th April 2009, 18:36

Have you been using a volt meter?
It's a fast way to prove things (if you know what to do)

hmurphy

5th April 2009, 19:38

Yup, I think we may have just sorted the wiring! YUSSSS!! Just finish off some welding and she'll be right! We would do the welding tonight, but the superbikes are on at 9:35pm on channel 32 (Live coverage) so..... that's our excuse for slacking off!

matoc

6th April 2009, 19:48

Yup the wiring is all sorted. Turned out to simply be that we were connecting the wrong wire from the magneto to the rest of our circuit. We were treating the black wire (which happens to be earth) as our live one. We never suspected brown was live! Dumb 70's Japanese wiring conventions if you ask me!

Will do a bit more welding tonight. Then we're just waiting for the expansion chamber and new front sprocket and chain. I really hope it's finished by this Sunday!

hmurphy

7th April 2009, 01:49

Motor is fully welded. All that is left is welding mounts for nylons on both of our buckets and we will see y'all this weekend! I am doing both days, but matt starts work at 2pm on Saturday. Dude... just pull a sickie! Sick leave is supposed to be taken for bucket racing

nudemetalz

7th April 2009, 08:51

Great to hear the big progress being made :)

sasfmj

8th April 2009, 01:54

this is proberly a dumb question ? but are you allowed to use the 150cc air cooled chinesse pitbike engines in bucket racers ??

Sketchy_Racer

8th April 2009, 07:25

As long as they are not competition based, then yes. Quite a few guys run things like the loncin 150s and obviously as a 150cc they have to be 4 stroke

hmurphy

8th April 2009, 11:31

YUSS! Last night (or I should probably say very very early this morning) we virtually completed the bucket! Engine is totally mounted, wired up and we took it out for a test ride!! Man... it was quick! It doesn't have the expansion chamber on yet or the 24mm carb either! Hopefully these will all be on for the Sunday! My FXR150 has got slicks on it now and just needs nylons for the Saturday. So.... at the moment (if all goes smoothly ofcourse), both of us will be racing this weekend!!

Pics and/or videos to come of the TS125

matoc

9th April 2009, 01:08

Hey!

Well here are some more pictures. The FXR is hmurphy's. Just have the bread boards and my expansion chamber to mount, and they should be done!

hmurphy

9th April 2009, 01:45

As you might have noticed from the photos, I still need to remove the number plate, tail lights etc. and also need to shape the nylon on the front of the RHS better and add one more nylon to the RHS. Then do the left side, hide a few cables n wires, add my number then I am doneskies!

Fingers crossed that the expansion chamber will be all cut and welded to fit the bike by Sunday! I am getting a friend who has the right welding equipment to help with that.

Haha we were out on the road at about 12.15am on our buckets test riding them and a cop caught us!! He was all good though. He was super jealous of our hardcore race machines. Just glad he didn't ticket us!

TZ350

9th April 2009, 08:59

Yup the wiring is all sorted. We were treating the black wire (which happens to be earth) as our live one. We never suspected brown was live! Dumb 70's Japanese wiring conventions if you ask me!

The International convention is for "Brown" to be the live wire and "Black" the Neutral or Zero Volts. Suck on your kettle cord or extension cord to see what I mean.

I have been following your work, it looks pretty good, real Bucketering.

See you Sunday.

.

nudemetalz

9th April 2009, 12:32

Gave me a laugh when you said the Plod busted your "research"... :Police: :spanking:

Buckets4Me

10th April 2009, 09:05

matoc

11th April 2009, 01:55

Bad boys Bad boys
whatcha guna do
when the cop gets u
:spanking: :nono::argue::blank:

did you invite him along to watch or try racing ???????

tell him to bring his gear and have a go :niceone:

oh and you wont do it again (tonight) promice

Haha, yea I might try that next time!

Well the expansion chamber is mounted (huge thanks to Steve who did an awesome job of grinding and rewelding the thing to fit snugly on the TS/RGV hybrid! Our welding skills are nowhere near good enough to even attempt something like that.), and we've tweaked the fuel/air mix a bit and come to the conclusion that we need to gear it way the fuck down. The gearing is far too tall, I can't even properly use 3rd gear. The powerband in 1st and 2nd take ages to wind out but there's no smooth transition between them. 2nd to 3rd is even worse.

I think the smallest RGV sprocket is 14 teeth (which I have at the moment) so I need to find a seriously massive rear. Hopefully Motomart will be open tomorrow so I'll pop in there early and see how quickly I can get hold of a bigger sprocket. If they aren't then would any of you chaps happen to have a huge RGV150 sprocket lying around? Or better still, an RG150/FXR150 wheel assembly that I could monster onto the RGV? If so, just name your price! I'm a desperate man!!

More pics to come!

Skunk

11th April 2009, 08:33

Scooterazzi will be open they have said. Try them too.

matoc

15th April 2009, 01:14

Well I've just bought an RG150 rear wheel to replace my rear and an FXR150 rear for my front! 2.75" and 2.15" wide respectively... apparently. Both 17".

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=213185856
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=212099639

With any luck the RG150 axle is about the same size as my RGV's. The FXR rear is another story. I spent a couple hours at hmurphy's taking his FXR's rear off and comparing it to my front and (as expected) there is quite a difference in axle size. So how did you fellas (nudey in particular) monster bigger rims on? Is it a simple matter of sticking freaking massive bearings in, or is there more involved? Such as slipping the axle through a tight fitting pipe to widen it within the wheel? Or is there some safe way to widen the holes in the forks (sounds a bit risky to me)?

Hopefully they arrive before the weekend. If so, I might attend the fun day at Kaitoke on the 19th (with only the RG150 rear on). Otherwise I just really hope to have it all done by the 26th.

Thanks again to everyone for Easter Sunday. It was the most fun I've had in a while! And I totally reckon my super awesome race start/wheelie/crash was worth the back protector! So what prize is up for grabs on the 26th (for best crash of course)? I'm in need of a good pair of boots... :wari:

nudemetalz

15th April 2009, 07:01

The rear axle size, to go through the chain adjuster block holes, is 14mm.
I used a front rim for the rear as this was the only way I could get a 3" rim on the back with a smaller axle size (in this case an FZR400 rim). Making the spacers for the correct width was another mission, as was converting to rear disc. You make the bracket hanger for the rear caliper off the RHS axle spacer.
A problem I have is that it's all quite a tight fit with the slick on there and the chain just touches the side of the tyre.

The front rim is a 2.15" TZR250 rim. That axle size (10mm) fitted perfectly, but once again, a really tight squeeze with a little shaving off the bottom of the forks (I didn't like doing). I had a stock of wheel spacers so it was just matter of coming up with the right combo, LHS & RHS.
The other issue I had was I had to swap my forks over and spin the RHS fork around as the TZR wheel is a RHS disc. Then it was fabricate a caliper hanger.
SHEEEZ.... I'm getting tired just thinking of all this................

Come up to my place some time before the next meeting and see how I've done it.