First bin ever (riding since 1984)

[YellowDog]

Having been riding since 1984, I was quite surprised to suffer my first ever bin. It would be nice to know exactly went wrong so I could learn from it but is just happened in an instant.

I had just moved off from a standing position onto the roundabout (top of Tawa Drive by SW17 Albany Motorway exit). There was a lot of traffic and I moved off at a reasonable pace. I was in first gear accelerating gently and leaning into the bend (like I do every day). I guess I must have fully let the clutch out by this time. The bike went down in one movement. Bar end to the ground and I saw the back wheel overtake me. I did my best impression of ‘Swan Lake’ in an attempt to avoid being hit by cars. Amazingly from my initial bang on the ground I stood and was dancing on my feet whilst slowing. I then hit the top of my thigh on the ground as I fell over. If there are any idiots reading this who still think it is OK to ride in shorts and T-shirt, think again. The bike was ahead and facing towards me.

I am pretty sure that no one hit my bike wheel causing this and the only explanation I have is that I must have hit a patch of oil on the roundabout. Without traction control and whilst accelerating, the wheel would have spun out of control, which is what appears to have happened. After getting help to move the bike onto the grass I had a good look around. There was so much traffic that it was hard to see.

One of my biker friends doesn’t think it is a big deal and as one of the hazards they regularly have to suffer with town riding. Apparently less than 4 bins a year is pretty good going? I can’t get my head around this and hadn’t anticipated hitting the ground without something more obvious occurring.

I can’t pretend that it hasn’t shaken me up because there was nothing out of the norm from my daily ride. If I was aware of a mistake I had made to cause this, then I feel a lot more comfortable about the situation. I will certainly pay more attention to look out for slippy substances on the road.

Constructive comments will be appreciated, particularly over expectations of hitting the ground on a semi-regular basis?

[Ixion]

Well, one off in 25 years is pretty good. I've managed a bit longer than that. So, maybe you better be real careful around 2034.

A totally unscientific assessment suggests that good riders tend to have an off about once every 20 years, give or take.

I agree, it's a worry when a safe rider goes down without any discernable reason. IME oil you tend to feel it slide .

Sometimes, maybe there isn't a reason, just one of the Biker Gods decided to piss on you. Me, I wouldn't get too hung up about it.

[The Pastor]

Well, one off in 25 years is pretty good. I've managed a bit longer than that. So, maybe you better be real careful around 2034.

A totally unscientific assessment suggests that good riders tend to have an off about once every 20 years, give or take.

I agree, it's a worry when a safe rider goes down without any discernable reason. IME oil you tend to feel it slide .

Sometimes, maybe there isn't a reason, just one of the Biker Gods decided to piss on you. Me, I wouldn't get too hung up about it.
you lasted more than 25 years with out falling off? you bloody liar. What about all the times when you speed while drunk? not to metion all those wheelies, just admit it ixion, your a hoon ;)

[piston broke]

long ago, 4 times a year would have been about right for me.
now once every four years is too often.
it's been more than a decade now,let it be two decades or so more,i hope.
well done going so long without dropping a bike

[Ixion]

... What about all the times when you speed while drunk? not to metion all those wheelies, just admit it ixion, your a hoon ;)

They were on two strokes, that doesn't count. 'under the influence of two smoker smoke' is a valid excuse for anything.

[rainman]

Having been riding since 1984, I was quite surprised to suffer my first ever bin.

Well, that sucks, mate. I assume from your post that you're all OK?

I haven't had a bin since I started riding again, and it was a long time before that when I had one at all. I often find myself wondering when it's going to be "my turn" but switch back to deciding it ain't gonna happen. That's all we can do, I guess - decide to avoid falling off, ride to the best of our abilities, keep learning... and if/when we're unlucky, hope it's only a little bit unlucky.

How's the bike?

[discotex]

Don't let it get to you mate. Just take what you can from it and keep moving. We all make mistakes from time to time. Usually we get away with it and with 20+ years crash free you're obviously doing something right. Hope ya not too banged up!

My thoughts that might help.....

Pretty unlikely you'd hit oil or diesel with the rear but not the front and you'd be able to see it easily in the aftermath.

To me it sounds a lot more like cold and/or worn tyres + lean angle + too much gas = crash.

Your description gives the impression you were trying to get into the roundabout in a hurry so that seems a likely explanation.

[YellowDog]

Well, that sucks, mate. I assume from your post that you're all OK?

I haven't had a bin since I started riding again, and it was a long time before that when I had one at all. I often find myself wondering when it's going to be "my turn" but switch back to deciding it ain't gonna happen. That's all we can do, I guess - decide to avoid falling off, ride to the best of our abilities, keep learning... and if/when we're unlucky, hope it's only a little bit unlucky.

How's the bike?
I'm fine thanks to pretty good in built armour. Just a bruise on my thigh that is responding well to an ice pack.

The bike has a nasty graze (just one). It is on plastic, so I can easily remove the panel and get it repainted. I recon $150 will do it!

The bar end weight took the impact and has bent up 90 degrees. There are also a couple of minor scratches on the exhaust cover.

After getting it off the road and assessing/considering my options, I quickly realised that the bent bar end weight had locked the throttle twist. The few tools I had were not really sufficient. After jamming a screw driver in several times, I managed to bend it back enough to unscrew it. Pliers would have been useful.

The damage to both me and the bike is extremely minor and I was very lucky.

Thanks for your kind words.

[quickbuck]

My thoughts.
Well, it was most defiantly a surface adhesion issue.

I mean, you have been riding so long that you do many things subconsciously.
So even if your bike gave a splutter causing it to fall you would have naturally countered for that, and know it happened.... or not. Regardless you would have saved it.

I would say it was something slippery on the surface of the road. As opposed to cold tyres. Even cold tyres would find traction.

Now, don't know the round-about BUT they are notorious for accidents.
There may have been one earlier where a vehicle dumped its antifreeze.

We are all quick to blame oil and diesel, but that green liquid it as slippery.... and less visible I reckon.

4 Bins a year.... Far too frequent. Might have been acceptable if I includes all the bins I had before I was 15...

[YellowDog]

Don't let it get to you mate. Just take what you can from it and keep moving. We all make mistakes from time to time. Usually we get away with it and with 20+ years crash free you're obviously doing something right. Hope ya not too banged up!

My thoughts that might help.....

Pretty unlikely you'd hit oil or diesel with the rear but not the front and you'd be able to see it easily in the aftermath.

To me it sounds a lot more like cold and/or worn tyres + lean angle + too much gas = crash.

Your description gives the impression you were trying to get into the roundabout in a hurry so that seems a likely explanation.
I know pretty well what the bike can do and hence my bewilderment at this unexpected bin. Of the bike's/my capabilities, I would estimate that my manoeuvre was around 50/100. I had waited patiently for a suitable gap in the traffic and then moved out fairly swiftly; but you have suggested something here that I had not even considered. Yes the tyres were stone cold. I had only travelled around 200m after being stopped for almost 5 hours.

Thanks for that. Feeling better already!

[YellowDog]

My thoughts.
Well, it was most defiantly a surface adhesion issue.

I mean, you have been riding so long that you do many things subconsciously.
So even if your bike gave a splutter causing it to fall you would have naturally countered for that, and know it happened.... or not. Regardless you would have saved it.

I would say it was something slippery on the surface of the road. As opposed to cold tyres. Even cold tyres would find traction.

Now, don't know the round-about BUT they are notorious for accidents.
There may have been one earlier where a vehicle dumped its antifreeze.

We are all quick to blame oil and diesel, but that green liquid it as slippery.... and less visible I reckon.

4 Bins a year.... Far too frequent. Might have been acceptable if I includes all the bins I had before I was 15...
Yes Quickbuck. There was definitely something slippy on the road and hence the rear wheel slid past me. And yes I do know the bike well. I was accelerating smoothly so I wouldn't factor in jerky movements as being a contributary factor. If my tyres were warm, I suspect I would have achieved some grip as the bike passed the slippy stuff and made contact with dry road.

Thanks for your comments.

[discotex]

Thanks for that. Feeling better already!

Good stuff YD. Glad to hear you weren't hurt badly!

I reckon you can say you've solved this one and that it was mostly the stone cold tyres :done:

You'd be surprised how little grip a stone cold tyre can have. I know I've been caught out a few times at the roundabouts near home now that it's cooling down again :shit:

[fLaThEaD FreD]

As a one year virgen to two wheels and only 24 days to go till my full,I read comments from posters and absorb all of them. I've had one bin early in my riding time and got steelwork to remember it by......It hasent put me off but tought me shitloads.....thanks from me as well.

[Robbo]

Yep, i'd also say that you have hit a patch of something slippery on the road. Glad you have'nt done too much damage to the Tiger so i guess it's only your pride that has taken a knock. Could have happened to any of us.
Cheers

[jrandom]

you lasted more than 25 years with out falling off? you bloody liar.

Chortle. Indeed. I seem to recall an incident in a certain Takapuna driveway...

:shutup:

[discotex]

Yep, i'd also say that you have hit a patch of something slippery on the road. Glad you have'nt done too much damage to the Tiger so i guess it's only your pride that has taken a knock. Could have happened to any of us.
Cheers

A 600cc+ bike will easily overwhelm a cold rear tyre without any help from the road surface once there's a little lean angle in the mix.

Why would you assume it was the road before the tyres?

[HungusMaximist]

I recommend you have a read at my thread. It happened middle of last year.

Had the exact thing happen, except I was riding straight through a roundabout.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=75384

[YellowDog]

A 600cc+ bike will easily overwhelm a cold rear tyre without any help from the road surface once there's a little lean angle in the mix.

Why would you assume it was the road before the tyres?
Happy to accept 'Pilot Error' on this however I don't believe that the characteristics of my riding at the time would warrant such a without warning instantaneous bin. My expectation of my first bin would be to first loose control in someway, which has happened once or twice before, but I have always managed to regain control (with warm tyres).

As a rule I have always made a point of riding as smoothly as possible without excessive revs until the bike warms up fully. I have always done this for the bikes sake and not for my own. I guess I should now also consider this for my own safety. Also, the air temperature has dropped a couple of degrees over the past few weeks, which can’t have helped.

I revisited the roundabout this morning and walked over to where I went down. I went there by car as my neck isn’t turning so well. The tar was very sticky and it looks like I rode over a particularly bad patch.

‘c’est la vie’ - Still learning.

BTW: Thanks to all from some great comments.

[PrincessBandit]

Good to hear you are ok and not too badly injured. I came off my bike on the motorway a fortnight ago with similar damage to bike and body (except I got a broken collarbone thrown in for good measure).
Mine was rider error, bad decision made in a split second - one moment I was upright on bike next I was braking and the bike slid along the road with me following. Next think I knew I was standing in the middle of the lane with 2 lovely strangers lifting my bike up for me and wheeling it to the side of the verge. The speed it happened at was what stunned me; from upright on bike to standing watching others helping me would have only been a matter of seconds. My reason for posting is to say I agree wholeheartedly with the "gear" issue. I wasn't wearing my leather pants and only ended up with a massive bruise on left thigh where my jeans ripped open, but all the rest of my gear did the job amazingly (and shows the signs of it!) I'd hate to think what the results would have been to me had I not been wearing it, and I don't honestly comprehend how people consider the risk of skimping on wearing proper kit worth it.
Cheers
Dawn

[beyond]

One bin in that time is pretty darn good going mate!
No one wants to bin but unfortunately there is a good chance that in your motorcycling life you will bin. Some are very lucky never to have a bin in their life but that is rare.

You words on the tar was my thoughts exactly. Cold tyre, bit of tar is all it takes. Even hardened tar will do it on an angle. It's been hot the last few days, enough still for tar to go off and get slippery on you.

I reckon you have ridden long enough to know how hard to push your bike on cold tyres
and bet you have cornered as hard with the same acceleration in the past as you did when you came off.

So, these are the main reasons why people spin off:
1. As has been mentioned.. cold tyres..too much throttle... too much lean. I think you have been around long enough for it not to have been that.
2. Wet or dry tar patch on cold tyres... most likely.
3. Banana skin.... don't laugh... it happens.
5. Tin can, or food wrapping of some sort... don't laugh.. it happens.
6. Diesel, oil, antifreeze or brake fluid. This stuff doesn't mix well with cold or hot tyres when cornering. Great spinups when in a straight line though :)

Yep, wearing all the gear all the time is the best motto. A small off without the clobber can lead to nasty wounds, abrasions and breaks.

Now, I bet it's going to take a couple of weeks or months before you get all the confidence back again, especially on right handers and roundabouts.
It will take time for most but don't sweat it.

Cheers
Pleased you aint to bad under the cirumstances :)

[YellowDog]

Anyone fancy a race around some twisty bends? Not for me thanks!

Yes my super high indestructable confidence has taken a bit of a dent. Fortunately the bike is rideable and I will be down at Holeshot tomorrow replacing minor parts.

What has impressed me is how well the bike can take a bin. Between the rear peg mounts and the bar end weights, the bike is pretty well protected. Even the indicators survived (though one bulb blew). I just need to buy a new Bar End Weight, a replacement bulb, and get a single plastic panel prepared repainted. I will happily live without the scuffed 'Tiger 1050' transfer which I never liked.

The other bit of positive news is that the bars were a few degrees out from true. They are now spot on!

[Robbo]

A 600cc+ bike will easily overwhelm a cold rear tyre without any help from the road surface once there's a little lean angle in the mix.

Why would you assume it was the road before the tyres?

Simply by reading and analyzing the original post

1) The rider is obviously experienced so overcooking the throttle is unlikely

2) Unless the said roundabout is located at his front gate then the tyres would have sufficient heat in them

3) Forty plus years of road riding have given me experience with most tricky scenarios and a problem on the road surface would best match this situation, whether it be oil or bleeding tar

[stevedee]

Mate for what its worth, it could have been a tiny bit of oil or antifreeze. I fell off 1978 almost instantly, riding a DT125 on the road, it had nobblies. I had just taken off from an intersection into a very nice right hand turn. It happened so fast I doubt anyone could have recovered. It is instant and I remember it well. It was sump oil. Not much either, I guess I timed one of my nobbly tread bits exactly with the oil. ..............I tend to look for the oil etc now at the places where cars may stop, another place is in gas stations where you can "preload" your tyres with oil or diesel as you leave.

Dont worry bro I aint fallen off on the road since, but I had a few years off for the inbetweens you know.

Take it easy.

spd:-)

[newbould]

Anyone like to comment on the possibility of tyre pressure as part of binnning during acceleration?

Also very interested in any further comment on how long it takes tyres to come up to operating temperature. I have some very nice corners inthe first 5 km of riding to work - when can I unclench?

If I get to 25 years without binnning I'll be 73 with metal hips!

[tigertim20]

Cant personally say I would agre with 4 bins a year being the norm!!!
As for the bin, bugger, but sounds as though you are alright, good, cos nobody on here wants one of our online community getting hurt! The bike ok too??

Does suck not knowing wjat happened, I got hit by a car running red lights last year at a 5 way intersection and had a head on, nearly died, was fuckin awful, really nothin I could have done, and it does take a while to get your ride confidence back. Im still not back up to 100% riding confidence yet after that one!! Take your time though and youll be sweet.

As for trying to figure out what went wong, good onya mate, too many people out there (on two wheels as well as four) coma out of a crash or near miss andjust say fuckit, Im ok, no need to sweat it and carry on. Bad idea.

Glad your ok though dude, and heres to ya goin another 25+ years before ya do it again!!

[Buckets4Me]

My first good bin I broke my collarbone (on a race track)

was tipping the bike from left to right and it just keeped going over till I landed on my sholder :doh:

was a mix of cold tires over confidence and damp track (I had been threw that corner many times and it was starting to dry up should have been fine )

well any way it was a big nock for my confidence and i found it took some time to come right I was so bad I couldn't stop the bike without falling off ???. I found it hard to trust the bike or tires after that (sold the tires and got some new ones. worked for me). Working out how and why you went down helps get back to it (if you cant work it out how can you ever trust the bike again) was it you'r fault or the tires or road ????.

I say replace the tires, you cant do anything with the road and you arn't bad at riding. Then get back on the horse and flog it silly :eek:

since I have fallen off several times more and re broken my collarbone but have been more confident because I new what was going on and why (not 4 times a year and I havent fallen off for 10 months now)

[YellowDog]

An update:

I believe I have managed to get my head around this. I am certainly riding with full confidence. I am however a lot more wary of the road surface.

The route I take/took would usually put me on the motorway after about 500 metres. Even after such a short distance my tyres would usually get some heat/grip. On this particular day there was a long queue of traffic and I basically moved at walking pace all of the way, so I guess the tyres were as close to stone cold as they could be. In saying that I didn't exactly boot it on to the roundabout. I am certain that there was something slippery on that point of the corner causing both wheels to slip simultaneously. The very point has since been completely smooth and clear.

So I am happy that there was more than one factor in this and the likely hood of it reoccurring is very small. I suspect that if on the exact same day I had ridden to said roundabout in the same manner as usual and hit a slippery patch, the bike would have swerved and at the <30kph speed, I may well have been able to regain control and this would have been just another of many close shaves us bikers have to endure as part of our daily hazards.

For me the lesson I have learnt is: never assume that your tried and tested safe method cannot be compromised. One small change to the situation can affect other characteristics making the 'safe', 'unsafe'.

So far as the bike goes, well I spent an hour or so straightening bits and pieces as well as sanding road damage to be smooth. It cost me $2.50 for a new bolt that I couldn't sufficiently straighten and $80 to have a panel I had to remove resprayed. So for $82.50, it all looks like new again!

The only personal physical damage I still have is from whilst trying to straighten bar end the bolt. I managed to sweeze skin from the palm of my hand in the mole grips. Ooooooch!

[discotex]

:done: :niceone:

[DarkLord]

Apparently less than 4 bins a year is pretty good going?

Who told you that? If I was having 3 bins a year, I would be asking myself some very serious questions!

I expect to have no bins a year. There are always plenty of times you can come off, you just need to decide in your mind that it's not going to happen.

From what you've said with your off it just sounds like pure bad luck, but unless you've got some real bad karma after you I wouldn't expect that sort of thing to happen very often at all.

[Capinure]

to beyond , you forgot dead possums.