Scooter riders going to put up our rego costs?

[Cynos]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2301914/Newbie-riders-blamed-for-rise-in-moped-spills



Inexperienced riders taking to mopeds are thought to be causing a rise in scooter accidents as people ditch their cars in the face of high petrol costs.

The rise in motorists switching to motorcycles and scooters has also resulted in more motorcycle-related injury claims to ACC.

Last year, 51 people were killed on motorcycles and two people died on mopeds. ACC paid out $64 million to 1395 motorcycle and scooter accident victims during 2008, $8 million more than in 2007. More than 230 people were injured last year on mopeds.


I'm might just be paranoid, but if ACC considers a scooter crash a motorcycle related crash, then if they keep increasing, then our ACC levies are going to go up, knowing ACC.

...and scooter riders don't even pay an ACC levy. >_<

I get the feeling idiots on scooters are going to make my ACC levy go up - and they don't even pay any frigging ACC levy. >_<

[slofox]

The GN125 rider who decided he did not have to stop for a cage in a roundabout yesterday might also add to ACC costs.....lucky for him (and the rest of us) I was driving the cage and avoided him (just) by slamming on the brakes...he didn't even look as he entered the roundabout. I had wobbly knees after that one...

[Squiggles]

I put this to ACC in november last year...


The primary riders of these Scooters are not Motorcyclists, yet they feature under Motorcycle accidents in ACC statistics, all the while avoiding the large sum that is the ACC levy currently attached to a Motorcycle registration.

Currently, few of the serious injury claims for survivors of motorcycle/scooter crashes are actually scooter riders, & tend to be motorcyclists, unfortunately. Probably not what you wanted to hear, but it is the state of our claims data at the present time.
I've attached a very good document from NZTA, easy to read, & reiterates what I've stated above and what our own ACC claims data shows.


.....
.....
.....


Few of these riders will be reached by current campaigns, the requirements of any safety gear and the consequences of an accident are oblivious to most, with the general attitude being "I'm only going a couple of k's to work, I dont need gloves". They do not view themselves as motorcyclists, and associate such protective gear as unnecessary for their 49cc Honda Today.

Are there any plans for ACC to target this group? At Auckland University their numbers are ever increasing, and with summer around the corner i expect to once again see what is becoming the norm amongst these riders, a t-shirt, shorts/skirt, sandles, no gloves, an open face helmet and a passenger hanging off the back without any of the above and no footrests.

As you've alluded to here, this is why I am including a larger target audience like Auckland University and your AUS&M Club networks to tackle the issue of the risks of riding scooters. Which are still the same as motorcyclists: High Visibility, Protective Gear & Safe Riding Skills.
To get the messages to the right audience needs a track to where they are & a drive past the University indicates such a group makes up the University's demographic.

In an ideal world, we would have started a scooter campaign several years ago, however, we are only able to work with what's realistic for now, with a lot of other factors involved which would take another several pages to cover.

In the meantime, motorcycle riders continue to be the most at-risk for injury and death, as is the case for the 27 motorcyclists (not scooter riders) who have already died on our roads this year. So our greatest emphasis for target will continue to be on motorcycle riders as well as the need for motorists to "look out for motorbikes".
Due to this, the high cost of the ACC component of motorcycle registration is unlikely to change until the cost of motorcycle injury claims begins to trend downwards.

Hope this helps to inform, including the attached Motorcycle Crash Factsheet for 2007.

[slofox]

Reading those figures, we would be safest to ride between midnight and 4.00am Mondays and Wednesdays only, on a bike of less capacity than 500cc...and on an expired licence....could make getting to work a bit of a bugger though...

[Mom]

...and scooter riders don't even pay an ACC levy. >_<

I get the feeling idiots on scooters are going to make my ACC levy go up - and they don't even pay any frigging ACC levy. >_<

I think you are msitaken there really. Everyone pays acc levies via their income in the first instance, levies via registrations of vehicles. Mopeds have to be registered to be ridden on the road.

[Ixion]

Cos I'm a pedant - it's mopeds not scooters. There is no legal distinction between scooters and motorcycles. Only between under 50cc (etc etc) and over. A 650cc Burgman is classed as a motorcycle.

[Brian d marge]

Reading those figures, we would be safest to ride between midnight and 4.00am Mondays and Wednesdays only, on a bike of less capacity than 500cc...and on an expired licence....could make getting to work a bit of a bugger though...

Sunday afternoon is a bit of a Byatch :eek:

That document cant be right anyway , according the TV ads its Speed and Alcohol that causes all the crashes ,,,,,,,,,,,,,:bleh:

Still these newbies may draw the light and ...the idiots in Wellington may see an opportunity for more stupidity ,,,,,

Stephen

[Cynos]

I think you are msitaken there really. Everyone pays acc levies via their income in the first instance, levies via registrations of vehicles. Mopeds have to be registered to be ridden on the road.

I used to ride a scooter, and you only pay the actual registration fee, it was like $47 pa - no ACC levy component IIRC. Will ask my brother, who still has a scooter.



The GN125 rider who decided he did not have to stop for a cage in a roundabout yesterday might also add to ACC costs.....lucky for him (and the rest of us) I was driving the cage and avoided him (just) by slamming on the brakes...he didn't even look as he entered the roundabout. I had wobbly knees after that one...


Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of stupid riders, but given my entirely anecdotal observations of a) increased scooters and b) increased people riding scooters in ways that make me face palm, I'm worried that ACC is conflating the statistics for two different groups of road users.

For a basic straw poll - how many times do you see a scooter riding on the left in a situation where it's unsafe? As in, going down the left in a full speed traffic flow as opposed to down the left of a stationary traffic queue.

I rarely see motorcyclists doing this, (and when I do, I shake my fist and rage impotently), but I see it often enough with scooters - and I have an idea why.

When I was riding a scooter, I got told a few times "you know it's legally a moped right? That means you can legally use the cycle lanes". It always strucke me as bs, but it seems to be a common urban myth that scooters are approximately bikes under the law.

I would comment about scooter riders in shorts and singlets at 50km/hr, but I saw enough people doing that on 650cc sportsbikes this summer to make it a shared idiotic trait.

[Cynos]

I think you are msitaken there really. Everyone pays acc levies via their income in the first instance, levies via registrations of vehicles. Mopeds have to be registered to be ridden on the road.
Actually I'm wrong, and you're right, sorry about that - it's like $117pa for a moped - LTSA are trying to figure out what the ACC levy is for one at the moment... according to a cached page from ACC it was $38.86 pa ACC for mopeds. http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:m52bXp5-QYUJ:www.acc.co.nz/levies-and-cover/news/WCM2_020636%3FssSourceNodeId%3D4210%26ssSourceSite Id%3D1494+acc+levy+moped&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=opera

[Mom]

Actually I'm wrong, and you're right, sorry about that - it's like $117pa for a moped - LTSA are trying to figure out what the ACC levy is for one at the moment... according to a cached page from ACC it was $38.86 pa ACC for mopeds. http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:m52bXp5-QYUJ:www.acc.co.nz/levies-and-cover/news/WCM2_020636%3FssSourceNodeId%3D4210%26ssSourceSite Id%3D1494+acc+levy+moped&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=opera

No worries mate, interesting observation though when you say scooter crashes are counted as motorcycle crashes. Mind you there are some higher cc rated scooters out there not just the 49cc jobs. Be interesting to see if they can provide a breakdown of the cc rating of 2 wheeled vehicles involved in injury accidents, and what class of license was held by the rider.

[slofox]

A 650cc Burgman is classed as a motorcycle.

But we all know it's not really a motorbike don't we...:devil2:

When I went to get a bike last year the cheeky bastard salesman suggested I buy a scooter...arsehole...told him where to get off an' all I did...

[Ixion]

Well, actually the technical definition of a scooter is the engine is direct couple to the rear wheel. And I have a vague memory that the Burgman isnt. Which would make it a motorbike.

Y' can't blame the salesdude, scrotahs are very suitable for elderly folk.

[Swoop]

When I went to get a bike last year the cheeky bastard salesman suggested I buy a scooter...arsehole...told him where to get off an' all I did...
Just think of all the money you could save!

Sell all of that silly "safety gear" like leathers, padded clothing & boots.
You only need a t-shirt and shorts on a scroter.:scooter: Coming off of one cannot hurt at all...

[R6_kid]

Cos I'm a pedant - it's mopeds not scooters. There is no legal distinction between scooters and motorcycles. Only between under 50cc (etc etc) and over. A 650cc Burgman is classed as a motorcycle.

Yes but a 50cc is accessible to anyone with a license, a 650 Burgman requires one to have successfully completed the graduated license system in order to legally ride it.

[MarkH]

Yes but a 50cc is accessible to anyone with a license, a 650 Burgman requires one to have successfully completed the graduated license system in order to legally ride it.

At the moment - yes. But both the 400 Burgman & the 650 Burgman are on the LAMS list, so either can be ridden on a learners once the legislation changes here.

Of course a 50cc scooter that is legally defined as a moped can be ridden on a car license, so you don't need to be a motorcyclist at all to ride one.

[pritch]

Y' can't blame the salesdude, scrotahs are very suitable for elderly folk.

I seem to recall reading a suggestion to that effect in KiwiRider. I don't think of myself as "elderly" but since the Government is paying me a pension now it's getting hard to ignore...

When I get too old for the VFR I might get a Triumph. If make it to really really old, maybe then a scooter.

Oh, and as of this month it cost me $77.59 to register my moped for 12 months.

[rastuscat]

The problem is that the plonka system allows people to ride without even thinking about it.

Like, a totally never drove a cage person walks into an AA office and gets a learner cage licence. One hour later, without ever having even driven a cage, they go and get killed riding a moped, because the law says they can ride opne on their cage licence.

They have never answered a question about bike safety, rules or legislation, coz the system says they don't have to.Bollocks system.

It's even worse for the mopeds that people are selling as power assisted pedal cycles (even though they take the pedals off and they look like mopeds). These things let people loose with no licence at all, likely no road education, and even a bloody bicycle helmet.

And these two classes of vehicles are going to push up the price of motorcycle registration. Where is the justice in that?

[MarkH]

The problem is that the plonka system allows people to ride without even thinking about it.

Like, a totally never drove a cage person walks into an AA office and gets a learner cage licence. One hour later, without ever having even driven a cage, they go and get killed riding a moped, because the law says they can ride opne on their cage licence.

They have never answered a question about bike safety, rules or legislation, coz the system says they don't have to.Bollocks system.

It's worse than that - they won't get killed, they will get injured (deaths are more likely on the open road on bigger faster bikes). Injuries are worse because we are talking about ACC and injured bikers (and scooter riders) cost a lot for operations/rehabilitation/wages compensation.

I don't mind scooters not needing a license though - they are no faster than a pushbike. But they are not registered as motorcycles, so they should not feature in the statistics for motorcycle crashes. The statistics should be seperated out so that we can be clear that the moped ACC levy is covering the moped accidents and the motorcycle ACC levy is not.