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cool_J
31st March 2009, 00:36
Hi there, I'm riding Ninja 250R 09, I'm 1.6m tall so the bike is a bit high for me. I wonder if there is anywhere in Wellington can low my bike down? Please help, I feel it's unsafe when I cant put my feet down probably.

CookMySock
31st March 2009, 09:20
Wind the preload back on your rear shock - that will hopefully get you some immediate relief until you can get the problem solved properly.

Just keep the bike fully upright as you coast to a stop, and try not to let it overwhelm your feelings - thats when you will have a panic and drop it.

Steve

MsKABC
31st March 2009, 09:49
I'd say most of the bike shops would be able to do that for you, but not being from the area, I couldn't recommend a good one sorry. Try PMing crasherfromwayback - he works in a bike shop down there I think.

You can also get your seat altered, which might take a few centimetres off it, and you could try getting boots with a thicker sole.

Good luck :)

cool_J
1st April 2009, 00:56
Well, I wonder how much does it cost me as well. I wish I would have a bigger body build and taller lil bit more T_T so sad

Pwalo
1st April 2009, 09:40
Google 'Ninja 250 Owners'. This should take you to the US owners site. They seem to have a lot of helpful information, including lowering advice.

Thanks for posting, it's always a relief to know that there are people shorter than me out there!

cambridgedan
1st April 2009, 09:56
do you know if you can lower the ninja ZX6R aswell because im looking to upgrade to one soon and it is a little bit to high

FROSTY
1st April 2009, 09:57
Cool J is yours the GPX shape or the ZX10 shape ?
If itsa the GPX shape then you have a VERY thick seat pad that could be shaved heaps.
Im pretty sure neither bike has very much in the way of adjustments suspension wise.

cool_J
1st April 2009, 18:24
yeah, I dont think that i can adjust the suspension because it's already at the lowest I think. The bike shop suggest me to buy the lower links on internet but...well...i'm not sure if it can work well.

elevenhundred
1st April 2009, 19:26
Don't feel bad about being short, alot of GP riders are vertically challenged

Duke girl
1st April 2009, 20:27
I am only 5ft 1in and ride a 2008 Ninja and find the seat ok, so I am suprised that you find the seat to high.

cool_J
1st April 2009, 20:31
Maybe my legs are shorter I guess lolz. Well, I can ride and stand but I just feel unsafe when I cant stand probably, that's all

Little Miss Trouble
1st April 2009, 22:11
My advice, short arse to short arse - learn to cope.

Don't take that the wrong way, most new riders, particularly us of the shorter variety will have found bikes felt clumsy and heavy at low speed & when stopping and starting.
Take a bit of time to get to know your bike before you go making those adjustments, you may find they aren't required after all - then you can spend that money on bike bling instead :niceone:

Duke girl
2nd April 2009, 11:20
You could always try and build the soles of your boots up as I have seen a few short arse people like ourselves do it and they said it is so much better and a cheaper way of going about feeling more comfortable on their bikes. Just a thought.

cool_J
2nd April 2009, 22:29
^^ well, I feel much better. Aight' I'll try to get used to it. haha I dont have jacket, pants or boots anyway...I'm working my ass up to save money for those.
@Miss.L : What's bike bling u r talking about? lolz i wana do so much for my bike aye. loving it so much

Little Miss Trouble
3rd April 2009, 08:20
Bike bling is after market extras that you add to make your bike more 'yours' i.e. my SV is pretty stock at the moment but I have some lovely people who are helping me source a pipe, emulators, rear shock etc

No bike bling for you until you have a full set of riding gear though:spanking:

cool_J
10th April 2009, 16:52
haha well, I wana have bike bling too, it may be cheaper than a full set of riding gear lolz. Miss L, can you show me urs when u have some "bling bling" on?

cs363
11th April 2009, 08:53
Do not wind preload off to lower the bike, that's just going to upset your suspension balance. Any shop that specialises in suspension (I know Bike Clinic & Motomart have people that do suspension, but there's probably others) can modify your forks and shock internally to drop the bike down whilst retaining balance and adjustability (This can also be put back to stock when you want to sell the bike). On some bikes it's possible to cut out some of the seat material if you only need to lower a little, and in some cases the subframe that the seat mounts to can be remounted lower.
Good luck with it. :)

breakaway
11th April 2009, 12:30
Just stick with it - don't lower it - because if you have this problem with a 250 you'll likely have it when you upgrade as well (Unless you get a cruiser or something...)

I'm about your height and I can handle a GSXR1000 w/ pillion comfortably. Being able to touch both legs down is not necessary to keep the bike stable when stopped.

A_Mans_Ruin
11th April 2009, 13:17
haha well, I wana have bike bling too, it may be cheaper than a full set of riding gear lolz. Miss L, can you show me urs when u have some "bling bling" on?

Yeah Miss L.... show us ya Bling!!! :laugh:

cs363
11th April 2009, 21:37
Just stick with it - don't lower it - because if you have this problem with a 250 you'll likely have it when you upgrade as well (Unless you get a cruiser or something...)

I'm about your height and I can handle a GSXR1000 w/ pillion comfortably. Being able to touch both legs down is not necessary to keep the bike stable when stopped.

Yes..but :) Assuming that this is the OP's first bike, having it so you can get both feet on the ground will help with confidence, you can always crank the height up again later once a higher level of confidence is achieved (probably the increased ground clearance will come in handy then too.) Obviously upgrading won't be an issue following this approach.

Robert Taylor
12th April 2009, 12:36
Do not wind preload off to lower the bike, that's just going to upset your suspension balance. Any shop that specialises in suspension (I know Bike Clinic & Motomart have people that do suspension, but there's probably others) can modify your forks and shock internally to drop the bike down whilst retaining balance and adjustability (This can also be put back to stock when you want to sell the bike). On some bikes it's possible to cut out some of the seat material if you only need to lower a little, and in some cases the subframe that the seat mounts to can be remounted lower.
Good luck with it. :)

Thats 100% correct. Lowering links always worry me as they sometimes can do funny things with the link ratio and very often they can swing back the base position of the link knuckle into a ''dead'' zone. Just because there are many aftermarket companies that build lowering links doesnt neccessarily mean they know anything about the effect on the link ratio, nor do they care.
If you release preload it does indeed upset balance, if you release it a lot then there remains too little pre-compressed spring force for low speed rebound to work properly through the bypass shaft jet. There is only one way to do it properly, pull the shock apart ( if it is one that can be! ) and fit internal spacers.
Ohlins also have a listing for the new model ZXR250 and that can be reconfigured to a suitable length with the added adavantage of not impinging on stroke distance as much.

warewolf
20th April 2009, 14:13
Lowering links always worry me as they sometimes can do funny things with the link ratio and very often they can swing back the base position of the link knuckle into a ''dead'' zone. Just because there are many aftermarket companies that build lowering links doesnt neccessarily mean they know anything about the effect on the link ratio, nor do they care.Having recently learnt from personal experience...

My 640 Adventure is seriously tall (945mm seat height) with 300mm rear suspension travel. I'd been using 1 1/8" lowering links but recently swapped back to the original links due to concerns with the lowering links affecting the suspension action. Basically the lowering links reduced the rising rate of the linkage, causing the suspension to bottom out easily, and hard. They also made the initial action a bit harsher. Strange, now back to original and I can't really notice the extra standover height?! but it sure has transformed the rear suspension. :yes:

A couple of fellahs on advrider.com mapped out the standard ratio versus 2" links. They found that the standard links required something like >1900 pounds load to bottom, the 2" links only <1000 lbs. See their chart below.

For the money, it is better to direct your funds to a suspension professional who can tweak the shock internals for you.

<img src="http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o20/warewolf885/mc/bikes/ktm/lc4/loweringLinkLeverage.jpg" alt="Lowering Links Leverage Chart" height="450" width="584">

cs363
20th April 2009, 19:38
Thats 100% correct. Lowering links always worry me as they sometimes can do funny things with the link ratio and very often they can swing back the base position of the link knuckle into a ''dead'' zone. Just because there are many aftermarket companies that build lowering links doesnt neccessarily mean they know anything about the effect on the link ratio, nor do they care.
If you release preload it does indeed upset balance, if you release it a lot then there remains too little pre-compressed spring force for low speed rebound to work properly through the bypass shaft jet. There is only one way to do it properly, pull the shock apart ( if it is one that can be! ) and fit internal spacers.
Ohlins also have a listing for the new model ZXR250 and that can be reconfigured to a suitable length with the added adavantage of not impinging on stroke distance as much.



Robert, being a tad forward here but could you advise approximate cost of lowering the bike via tinkering with the internals versus cost of said adjustable Ohlins shock? I know there can be many variables depending on the state of the original suspension, but an idea for those interested in this topic might be helpful.
Also, I would have thought that even with a shock that can be adjusted for length (obviously the most advantageous route) you would still need some sort of modification to the front end as I imagine that dropping the clamps lower on the forks would not provide enough height differential?

Robert Taylor
20th April 2009, 20:14
Having recently learnt from personal experience...

My 640 Adventure is seriously tall (945mm seat height) with 300mm rear suspension travel. I'd been using 1 1/8" lowering links but recently swapped back to the original links due to concerns with the lowering links affecting the suspension action. Basically the lowering links reduced the rising rate of the linkage, causing the suspension to bottom out easily, and hard. They also made the initial action a bit harsher. Strange, now back to original and I can't really notice the extra standover height?! but it sure has transformed the rear suspension. :yes:

A couple of fellahs on advrider.com mapped out the standard ratio versus 2" links. They found that the standard links required something like >1900 pounds load to bottom, the 2" links only <1000 lbs. See their chart below.

For the money, it is better to direct your funds to a suspension professional who can tweak the shock internals for you.

<img src="http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o20/warewolf885/mc/bikes/ktm/lc4/loweringLinkLeverage.jpg" alt="Lowering Links Leverage Chart" height="450" width="584">

Thanks a whole heap for sharing your unsatisfactoty experience. Of course there could forseeably be the odd situation where a set of alternative links has a positive effect. But for the most part its clear that those who are marketing lowering links or those making one offs are ''flying blind'' They are responding to whjt the customer wants and thats what the customer gets, warts and all.
Is this ignorance acceptable? Personally I think not, especially as it can impact on safety.

Robert Taylor
20th April 2009, 20:18
Robert, being a tad forward here but could you advise approximate cost of lowering the bike via tinkering with the internals versus cost of said adjustable Ohlins shock? I know there can be many variables depending on the state of the original suspension, but an idea for those interested in this topic might be helpful.
Also, I would have thought that even with a shock that can be adjusted for length (obviously the most advantageous route) you would still need some sort of modification to the front end as I imagine that dropping the clamps lower on the forks would not provide enough height differential?

Each job is different and at no time was I directly advocating a custom built Ohlins shock as the one and only solution. Usually I would recommend lowering the bike as little as possible because you often get into the rising rate part of the linkage curve earlier, giving a firmer ride. Knowledge of such facts and maintaining correct geometry and balance are major pre-requisites.

robboh
21st April 2009, 01:46
Unless you have really short legs, Id be kind of suprised that the latest Ninja 250 is too tall for you.

Im about your height... well, I used to be 5'7" (before a couple of vertebrae got compression fractures)... and Im ~60kg wringing wet, depending on when I last visited McD's. I just measured my in-seam (to floor, not trouser inseam which is to ankle) and its ~30".

Anyway, Ive sat on a 2009 Ninja 250 (the sports bike version, didnt know there was another?) and I was able to sit on the seat, both paws on the floor, and knees were actually bent slightly.

As people have mentioned, a fatter sole on your boots will help.

Lowering bikes loses ground clearance (not sure if its an issue with the Ninja). Id imagine you would also want to drop the triple-clamps down the forks to get the bike back in balance.

warewolf
21st April 2009, 14:03
Is this ignorance acceptable? Personally I think not, especially as it can impact on safety.Definitely not. We know - and there are lots of warnings about - fitting the wrong size tyres can have detrimental effects. Lowering links should be treated with the same trepidation and have similar warnings.

I did quite a bit of research, both before and after buying the bike. The common consensus was that lowering links worked... satisfactorily... drowning out the nay-sayers significantly; whereas internal mods on that particular shock was an unknown. I tried a suck-it-and-see approach for too long and I have since on-sold the links to someone else who is prepared to try them despite all my suggestions to the contrary!? The nay-sayers were the suspension tuners and the more expert riders... that in itself is telling.

Unfortunately I should have done more research and got hold of people who knew what could be done. This shock is fitted to various bikes with internal spacers adjusting the stroke to suit each application. It would have cost $0 to have a professional adjust it, as an add-on price to a routine shock service. :weep: Somebody slap me. :pinch:

Robert Taylor
21st April 2009, 18:50
Definitely not. We know - and there are lots of warnings about - fitting the wrong size tyres can have detrimental effects. Lowering links should be treated with the same trepidation and have similar warnings.

I did quite a bit of research, both before and after buying the bike. The common consensus was that lowering links worked... satisfactorily... drowning out the nay-sayers significantly; whereas internal mods on that particular shock was an unknown. I tried a suck-it-and-see approach for too long and I have since on-sold the links to someone else who is prepared to try them despite all my suggestions to the contrary!? The nay-sayers were the suspension tuners and the more expert riders... that in itself is telling.

Unfortunately I should have done more research and got hold of people who knew what could be done. This shock is fitted to various bikes with internal spacers adjusting the stroke to suit each application. It would have cost $0 to have a professional adjust it, as an add-on price to a routine shock service. :weep: Somebody slap me. :pinch:

Taken straight from Race Techs site, found this today by chance and anyone can access. Subject title ''LOWERING''

There is no direct mention about the usually adverse effect on linkage ratio but there is a further very relevant message as follows;

WE DO NOT RECOMMEND LOWERING LINKS! They do nothing to decrease the travel. This means the tire can bottom out through the fender! This has the likely potential to stop the rear wheel from turning and has caused many ''inexpicable'' crashes.

As with so many things there are so many companies out there that will do the job to suit what the customer often wants to hear, ''we can do it cheaply'' And quite often theres a very negative trade off.

Id lay money on it that the highest proportion of companies making lowering links ( and those making one offs ) have no idea of the change effected to motion ratio and clearance issues. And many of those also wouldnt care, frankly that sucks.

warewolf
22nd April 2009, 00:46
Id lay money on it that the highest proportion of companies making lowering links ( and those making one offs ) have no idea of the change effected to motion ratio and clearance issues. And many of those also wouldnt care, frankly that sucks.One of the (erroneous - and quite common) comments I heard/read was that with 300mm of travel, who cares if the lowering links upset the first little bit? Now, from the charts above, we can see that the links have the most effect at the final part of travel, and it is purely proportional: wouldn't matter if the travel was 30, 300, or 3000mm, the rising rate is rooted making the thing bottom a lot easier (and that bottoming potentially occurs beyond the rear fender!!).

To be fair to the lowering link manufacturers, it must be noted that most people wanting the links are shorter and probably lighter and less confident (read: aggressive) riders. That means they are less likely to push the suspension to its limits, ie less likely to push the lowering links to the really bad zone near full compression (surprise major bumps notwithstanding). So as a result a lot of their feedback could be positive... could that be considered a "false positive"? (Interesting that KoubaLink state something similar on their FAQs (http://koubalink.com/faq.html) page, see Q.7.)

Someone reading this might think, "but I'm not going to bottom my suspension." Bear in mind the links affect all the bumps you hit. The spring and damping is designed to work with the rising rate linkage over all the bumps. Bottoming is just the extreme "bump".

cs363
22nd April 2009, 20:33
WE DO NOT RECOMMEND LOWERING LINKS! They do nothing to decrease the travel. This means the tire can bottom out through the fender! This has the likely potential to stop the rear wheel from turning and has caused many ''inexpicable'' crashes.

As with so many things there are so many companies out there that will do the job to suit what the customer often wants to hear, ''we can do it cheaply'' And quite often theres a very negative trade off.

I can attest to this - many years ago I was given some Fredette lowering links for my KDX200 that I had at the time, it frequently bottomed the rear tyre on the fender - thankfully not hard enough to cause an accident but hard enough to dig a couple of grooves in the plastic! That and my increased confidence convinced me to put it back to stock.
I currently have a CRF250X which I had lowered professionally and has Race Tech springs and gold valves fitted, the bike is awesome to ride and makes full use of the suspension travel without harsh bottoming. I've become a full convert to having professionally sorted suspension since I had a CR250 fully Race Tech'ed about 9 years ago. Since then every bike (road & dirt) gets the suspension treatment, some even have those sexy Swedish suspenders on too....
As far as I'm concerned suspension is the best place you can spend money on your bike, no matter how well you ride or what your bike is - you will notice the difference and it will improve both your enjoyment of the ride as well as your confidence and safety.