Pakeha world views?

[trump-lady]

Hi all, I have to do a 5 minute DVD on Pakeha world views in a group presentation of 30 mins. I drew Pakeha Worldviews and Im finding it really hard to find short vid clips as you tube wont let you download so Ive been using pictures. (Thats alot of pictures) I thought it would be interesting to see also Kiwi Bikers views on what exactly a "Pakeha Worldview" is. Now Im taking it more as a european worldview, worldwide majority thing but really want stuff from New Zealand.

The topic is for a Bi Cultural Social Work paper and pretty much is asking us to explain how peoples world views can effect social services and practise.

Basically what do you think in terms of values, morals priorities for the majority of whiteys.

Now I know this is ganna be a pisstake, and will ruffle feathers but hopefully Ill get some good pics I can add to the movie and some short vids.

If you dont like it minimise and....as you were

Cheers

[Whynot]

I think the first question is ...
What is a Pakeha?

[trump-lady]

I think the first question is ...
What is a Pakeha?


oh boy.... yes I agree thats why I said european cause for real pakeha is just a term for white. Im thinking lets say "westernised ideals" to keep it kosher :)

[Whynot]

So you want a "Western European, New Zealand world view" for a Bi Cultural Social Work paper ...

What exactly is that going to achieve?

[trump-lady]

So you want a "Western European, New Zealand world view" for a Bi Cultural Social Work paper ...

What exactly is that going to achieve?


Hopefully a pass....
The 30 min vid is about worldviews and their impact on social work. the 30 mins has 6 sections. I got pakeha world veiws.

For example, theres conflict in policys at my work, Domestic violence. My agency says the offender is offender and we dont deal with them. Im Maori and this world view doesnt sit well as I think healing a whanau is a whanau process. ( and I have worked with the offender...shhhh) Its also quite feministic and I dont believe DV equals split families. I believe you can have a couple that just needs the right tools to modify their behaviour and they will be fine. Two world views, two perspectives that can cause conflict in my practise.

European world view may mean a family is quite materialistic rather than a Moari worldveiw that mana is more valuable. (of course not all) My own worldview needs to be reflected on to so I dont put my worldview on someone else.


I guess the paper is asking us to reflect on others worldviews and how we as social workers need to realise different worldviews will impact the way we need to practise and the veiws of those we are working with. Which truely it does in my field.

For example. Positivism.... Individualism..... Cultural reproduction....

I want Powerful NZ images just because it will be more engaging to watch

[Whynot]

You mention "Two world views"
I assume this is Maori and Pakeha?

And you are defining "Pakeha" as white, Western European New Zealanders.

I'm struggling to understand how you can put everyone who falls under that bracket into one group.

Surely then you would have 5th generation kiwis in with recently immigrated British, French, Spanish, German, Dutch, Italian, Australian, American, South African people.
All who could be defined as "white, Western European New Zealanders".

I can guarantee a lot of those sub groups have different views and perspectives on the world.

And what about the rest?
Islanders?
Asians
Indians?
Africans?

Do they not matter?

[Dave Lobster]

The 'whites' are far from a majority too. Considering how many chinese and indian people there are alone.

They may be a majority amongst the people that are 'getting things done', and be ruling the countries that aren't hitting each other with sticks in civil wars, but they're FAR from the majority.

In 100 years, it's likely there'll be far fewer of them too, with the rate at which they're reproducing, relative to the cultures that live on benefit the world over.

My world view is:
You can't make all none white cultures adopt white culture, just because you tell them to, and because some of them want to assimilate. Whether this is drug smoking, wife beating, baby killing, cannibalism amongst maoris, or memorising whole rafts of information to cheat in an exam amongst the chinese.. or killing your neighbours because their god isn't as peaceful as yours amongst the indians and pakistanis.

Why TRY to make them change to fit into white/western culture, when they don't want to?
Isn't it easier to just remove the western system of welfare and handouts to those that don't want them? It'll save a lot of money for the people who DO want to assimilate and fit in with what can be a nice way to live, for those that want it.

[Korumba]

Hey Tanya, You can download you tube, just search for “You Tube downloader” and once you have it, your away, I have no idea how to edit them if you need to but I am sure that can be done.

I have shown “Once were Warriors” to 3 people while I have been in the States They all cried and had there vision of New Zealand changed, Same stuff is happening in their own back yards but no one here has made a film that went this far. (I am sure someone will come up with a few) This movie sums up DV well.
Two of the people have Native American blood (one of which has visited NZ the other works for a NGO and is currently in Senegal) and the third person a “Pakeha American” has visited NZ twice while in the Coast Guard.

The Worlds Fastest Indian went over well though....

Good luck with the presentation.

[James Deuce]

oh boy.... yes I agree thats why I said european cause for real pakeha is just a term for white. Im thinking lets say "westernised ideals" to keep it kosher :)

But I'm not European, and neither is anyone of European descent born here. New Zealand "Macro-Culture" is vastly different from any "Macro-Culture" in Western Europe.

[Pwalo]

I'm not too sure that Kiwi Biker is a good forum to discuss socio-political issues in a meaningful manner. More over I think that the question that you have been given pretty well sums up the reply that your examiner is asking for.

As long as you write about how repressive (and oppressive) the capitalist based western society has been on indigenous culture you'll be fine.

I'm pretty sure that there has been a lot of ink spilled on this question, so a quick search on the interwebby should give you a few papers. Good luck.

[sidecar bob]

So you want a "Western European, New Zealand world view" for a Bi Cultural Social Work paper ...

What exactly is that going to achieve?

Sounds better than Pakeha, im highly offended by the use of that word.
It is the white version of Nigger.
There would be an uproar if a thread in here was titled Nigger World Views & it went on to have a story about the views of Maori.
Could the title of this thread please be re worded so as not to cause offence.

[Headbanger]

As long as you write about how repressive (and oppressive) the capitalist based western society has been on indigenous culture you'll be fine.



You mean to say how a stone age people were lifted out of the mud and given all the benefits of a more advanced culture and squander it with drug, alcohol and child abuse? And have proven that no matter how many policies are made,and how much money is spent on health, education,employment based on racist criteria they still refuse to better themselves?

[Jantar]

And people wonder why racism is apparent in New Zealand? :wacko:

[Okey Dokey]

Guess you may have to look somewhere else to get someone to do your homework for you.

[Trudes]

Better you than me (In saying that, it sounds like something I'll have to do next year!! ewwww!)
Maybe something to do with the nuclear family ideal that most of us "whiteys" still envisage but seldom achieve; individualism ie. not collective ways of living; self-determination, the things we do are usually to benefit ourselves and our immediate families, not our extended family and future generations; farming and innovation, yes, that is a broad generalisation, but hey why not a picture of a Pakeha with his sheep and dogs and tractor or something.
I hate world view topics.... Buggered if I know what the Pakeha world-view is, how do I view the world? I don't know!:rolleyes:

[Finn]

With all due respect Trump-lady, what a complete waste of time. However, I guess I've got to be patient while all the skid marks of socialism are flushed away from the toilet bowl known as NZ.

You want a real Pakeha view? Here's a good one...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/opinion/2298978/Michael-Laws-Maori-Party-apologist-for-excesses-of-its-people

[Big Dave]

You could point out how being called a Pakeha changes folks view of the world.

Being called a European is as 'offensive' as calling a Maori a Samoan. Just not where I'm from any more.

They need a new word.

[Fatjim]

I think what Maoris fail to realise is that Europeans are individuals, able to make decisions for themselves, providing a wealth of diversity in culture.

[batboy]

Herein lies the problem faced by the diverse cultural cooking pot of new zealand and many western worlds, we are still hell bent on pigeon holing every person into their own little groups..
white people as a group are still being made to feel personnally responsible for what happend to the native population of this country. We pay tax in order to payout iwi for bullshit reasons.
They totally disregard any european culture (Wigram airfield anyone) because they were here first, now major players such as ngai tahu are rolling in the cash and sticking it to the whities at every turn (eeling at ellsmere), kicking non maori off beaches...its bullshit complete bullshit. I mean if iwi feel the need to bleed the country dry with treaty settlements, they could always take responsiblity for their own once all claims have been payed out and take over paying sickness/unemployment benefits to those who claim to be maori, and no longer rely on the working class of this country.
The goverment feels the need to have any offical documents include a te reo translation for english parts...as if there are any maori who do not speak english left in this country.

To cap it off we need to stop trying to gain an advantage based on our race, and call everyone a kiwi or newzealander not a maori or european and work as one to make this country better and stronger as it will benefit us all, not just a select few wo deem the are owed something because their ancestors were oppressed 8 generations ago

[Jantar]

....To cap it off we need to stop trying to gain an advantage based on our race, and call everyone a kiwi or newzealander not a maori or european and work as one to make this country better and stronger as it will benefit us all, not just a select few wo deem the are owed something because their ancestors were oppressed 8 generations ago

You got it batboy. Any racism in New Zealand is being fostered by just the type of assignment that the OP has been given. The sooner that the people who are driving this racial agenda can accept that we are one people in one country, the sooner any racism will disappear.

[Oscar]

You could point out how being called a Pakeha changes folks view of the world.

Being called a European is as 'offensive' as calling a Maori a Samoan. Just not where I'm from any more.

They need a new word.

This whole label thing is a can of worms.
Firstly I don't mind Pakeha - in modern usage it pretty much describes what I am.
If you really need to pigeonhole me, use the local lingo.

Reflect on the use of "European" or "Asian" to describe people.
Europe stretches from Russia to Eire, so what has a Rusky got in common with a Paddy. Similarly, Asia includes India and Japan, not only thousands of miles apart, but culturally, socially and ethnically worlds apart.

I also wonder about the use of ""bi-cultural" in the assignment.
Not withstanding the fact that there are many more cultures in NZ than Pakeha and Maori, this still assumes that the Pakeha part of the equation is culturally homogeneous.
It isn't, as what we describe as Pakeha come from cultures as diverse as Irish, Scots, English, Dutch, South African, Australian, Croatian and so on.
To group these together as one is as offensive as insisting that all Polynesians are of the same group.

[Blackshear]

Pakeha = White stranger :yes:

[Oscar]

Pakeha = White stranger :yes:

Suits me.

I'm kind of a pale pinky white and I'm pretty strange...

[sidecar bob]

Pakeha = White stranger :yes:

Thats fine, but i strongly object to apparently only having a Maori word to describe my ethnicity.

[MisterD]

Pakeha = White stranger :yes:

So what? Paki = someone from Pakistan...it's still used as a perjorative term.

Perception = truth, so don't f-ing call me a "Pake"....

[Tank]

Pakeha = White stranger :yes:

So we are cool to call them black strangers?

[paturoa]

I think your job here is done.....

Copy and paste the above posts and hey presto, a "Pakeha World View" will appear.

NOTE OF CAUTION: DO NOT do this - if you submitt this you will get a fail on your assignment, cos although there is likely a lot of honesty in the above you are NOT, I repeat, NOT allowed to say this stuff.......

[Oscar]

Thats fine, but i strongly object to apparently only having a Maori word to describe my ethnicity.


English speakers have a long history of adopting the local lingo and making it part of the language. So I would suggest that Pakeha is no longer a Maori word.
I'll bet it's in the NZ English Dictionary.

[trump-lady]

I didn’t make up the assignment or the terms used. I’m working with what I got given. My worldview and perhaps a few will agree on kiwibiker is that threads tend to go on a tangent far from the topic :) 2 Pages and not one picture. Heres an example in the pics of contrast of "some worldviews". Now many Europeans will see the NZ flag and identify with it as will some Maori, however I imagine not many Europeans are driving around with this flag on their car. Also if I post this ona pro maori site obviously as a collective their world view will be different from if I posted on a KKK site.

I find it interesting the variety of "worldviews" already posted on here. Obviously if I was working with some of you I wouldnt great you in Maori say a karakia and suggest a hui with your extended family. Youd be offended. So I wouldnt. Likewise if your on a Marae Im going to follow protocol.

I knew pakeha would cause tension and already there is a common theme occuring of post. Obviously you all are different and have different views but there is a majority saying the same thing in different ways, and thats fine. Im not here to agree or disagree. You all have the right to feel as you feel.

This is not about whos right or wrong what words are good or bad but already many of you have introduced me to your worldview and these are the tools I need to be an effective social worker with ANYONE.

Which is fine but fact remains in social work I need to be aware that my world view and other peoples worldveiw can be drastically different. There for my approach would be different. Also that every person is to be respected for their worldview as they are based on your experiences. That is what this assignment is for. Again there are 5 other sections to this.... What shapes a worldview, Maori, Pakeha, Holistic, Importance of worldviews



For the record my father is European and thus so am I. I identify first as being Maori because it is my worldveiw that when people look at me thats what they see. It doesnt mean I dont identify as european but my worldview has been shaped by by years of ticking that box!

[HenryDorsetCase]

I think what Maoris fail to realise is that Europeans are individuals, able to make decisions for themselves, providing a wealth of diversity in culture.

haven't you just lumped all "Maoris" in together? i.e. done the same thing?

[Trudes]

I think your job here is done.....

Copy and paste the above posts and hey presto, a "Pakeha World View" will appear.

NOTE OF CAUTION: DO NOT do this - if you submitt this you will get a fail on your assignment, cos although there is likely a lot of honesty in the above you are NOT, I repeat, NOT allowed to say this stuff.......

Isn't that the truth!!! I always have a laugh when I get set assignments on a similar line of thinking, "discuss YOUR view of such and such blah blah blah" I usually end up writing two assignments, one of what I really think and one which I submit of what they want to hear.
I can't afford to repeat papers year after year because I spoke MY mind instead of just regurgitating the brain-washing we are "supposed" to think. Believe me, I have an open mind and have changed my thinking about a lot of issues from what I was "brain-washed" into thinking when I was growing up, but I still have many opinions about things that wouldn't be appreciated by the PC assignment markers and University lecturers.

[trump-lady]

You mention "Two world views"
I assume this is Maori and Pakeha?

And you are defining "Pakeha" as white, Western European New Zealanders.

I'm struggling to understand how you can put everyone who falls under that bracket into one group.

Surely then you would have 5th generation kiwis in with recently immigrated British, French, Spanish, German, Dutch, Italian, Australian, American, South African people.
All who could be defined as "white, Western European New Zealanders".

I can guarantee a lot of those sub groups have different views and perspectives on the world.

And what about the rest?
Islanders?
Asians
Indians?
Africans?

Do they not matter?

Two world veiws on that was referring to my worldveiw and my agencys worldveiw.

I agree with you in your last statement. I guess the paper is adressing Maori/non Maori or else we will be all day and have a 2000 hour DVD :)

For sure everyone counts

[Grahameeboy]

Two world veiws on that was referring to my worldveiw and my agencys worldveiw.

I agree with you in your last statement. I guess the paper is adressing Maori/non Maori or else we will be all day and have a 2000 hour DVD :)

For sure everyone counts

I think we are alll equal and should have the same whites....ooopppsss...I mean "rights".

My worldview is that in many cases Maori due to the treaty have greater rights of passage than non Maori....I reckon if I was Maori I would have less hassle with my Daughter's providers who think I don't exist...

They have a Mission Statement for Maori but not Fathers...we all have legal rights be it a treaty or basic Human Rights

[Dave Lobster]

So we are cool to call them black strangers?


No, you're thinking of DRUG DEALERS.





For the record my father is European and thus so am I. I identify first as being Maori because it is my world view that when people look at me that's what they see. It doesnt mean I don't identify as european but my world view has been shaped by by years of ticking that box!


I think you're mistaken. When people see you, they see a person. Whether you make a good or a bad impression as either a maori or a european will depend on how you conduct yourself when you open your mouth :)

[trump-lady]

No, you're thinking of DRUG DEALERS.





I think you're mistaken. When people see you, they see a person. Whether you make a good or a bad impression as either a maori or a european will depend on how you conduct yourself when you open your mouth :)

Perhaps but if someone sees me and I am a lovely tan color and then you say to them "oh youve seen trump-lady. Out of curiousity what is she?" I predict most would say Maori when in fact Im only like a third.

Im not saying its right or wrong Im just saying I am usually identified as Maori.

Bit off topic, I really want YOU GUYS to tell me your worldveiw. Still no pics :(

Whats most valuable, important to you, and is the under current of all your actions.

[Dave Lobster]

Bit off topic, I really want YOU GUYS to tell me your world view. Still no pics :(

What's most valuable, important to you, and is the under current of all your actions?

Paying the mortgage. Nothing to do with race at all.. sorry to disappoint.

Conversation with someone in England a couple of days ago:
I see the maoris have started beating babies instead of their missus
WHAT??
It's been in the news, the baby killings in NZ.

Seems to have made the news abroad..

[trump-lady]

Ok I got it if you are inclined to...

Find one picture that tells your world veiw

[sidecar bob]

haven't you just lumped all "Maoris" in together? i.e. done the same thing?
One can understand how that mistsake could be made though.
Maori do tend to regularly refer to themselves collectively as "our people" or more accurately "Ahh pepoow"

[Headbanger]

Whats most valuable, important to you, and is the under current of all your actions.

My family. (meaning my wife and children, Not my arsehole brothers,miserable cousins or fuckball uncles and Aunties)

I would give up everything else for there well being. If anyone hurts them then I will avenge them.

Before that I was selfish.

[trump-lady]

Paying the mortgage. Nothing to do with race at all.. sorry to disappoint.

Conversation with someone in England a couple of days ago:
I see the maoris have started beating babies instead of their missus
WHAT??
It's been in the news, the baby killings in NZ.

Seems to have made the news abroad..

PERFECT! worldveiw isnt about race only.....

and I had that pic on already

A for you :)

[trump-lady]

My family. (meaning my wife and children, Not my arsehole brothers,miserable cousins or fuckball uncles and Aunties)

I would give up everything else for there well being. If anyone hurts them then I will avenge them.

Before that I was selfish.

Im not knocking you this is a very sincere question. Would you call that individualism? Simply because its not quite the same as from a Maori perspective (for some ) because whakapapa goes way way way back but yet it is not the same. Your immediate family is extremely important..but not extended. Is individualism the correct word, are you comfortable with that?

[Headbanger]

Im not knocking you this is a very sincere question. Would you call that individualism? Simply because its not quite the same as from a Maori perspective (for some ) because whakapapa goes way way way back but yet it is not the same. Your immediate family is extremely important..but not extended. Is individualism the correct word, are you comfortable with that?


individualism


<table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dnindex" width="35">1.</td> <td>a social theory advocating the liberty, rights, or independent action of the individual.</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="luna-Ent"> <tbody><tr> <td class="dnindex" width="35">2.</td> <td>the principle or habit of or belief in independent thought or action.</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="luna-Ent"> <tbody><tr> <td class="dnindex" width="35">3.</td> <td>the pursuit of individual rather than common or collective interests; egoism.</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="luna-Ent"> <tbody><tr> <td class="dnindex" width="35">4.</td> <td>individual character; individuality.</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="luna-Ent"> <tbody><tr> <td class="dnindex" width="35">5.</td> <td>an individual peculiarity.</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dnindex" width="35">6.</td> <td>Philosophy. <table class="luna-Ent"> <tbody><tr> <td class="dnindex" width="25">a.</td> <td>the doctrine that only individual things are real.</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="luna-Ent"> <tbody><tr> <td class="dnindex" width="25">b.</td> <td>the doctrine or belief that all actions are determined by, or at least take place for, the benefit of the individual, not of society as a whole
</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>


Hell yes. Though I believe we still have an obligation to do right by the community we live it. Contribute where required and don't fuck with other people shit.

[Big Dave]

Whats most valuable, important to you, and is the under current of all your actions.

That changes through every station of life.

[trump-lady]

That changes through every station of life.


Ahh have you done my course Big Dave :) Hopefully a social worker can help mould a worldview to maximise positive results. Guess the dvd is trying to teach us that even if right or wrong when dealing with people one must take into account their core beliefs and work with it.

Ok Im thinking family is going to be almost it for everyone. So lets minus family. A pic that represents what you strive to be.....

Ill post up my final vid when Im done ;) you could become famous

[trump-lady]

Ixion is on.....
Im waiting anxiously

[Sparrowhawk]

I think this is a really interesting question. I don't think there's a way to some up the "Pakeha World View". I don't think of myself as a Pakeha. I think of myself as a Kiwi. But my 'world view' is going to be different to the Kiwi next door.

However I do get upset that it seems like Maori are more important than every other culture. Like has already been mentioned, having every gubbermint document translated into Maori seems to be a waste of money & time.

Sorry, I don't have any pictures that say this...

[trump-lady]

I think this is a really interesting question. I don't think there's a way to some up the "Pakeha World View". I don't think of myself as a Pakeha. I think of myself as a Kiwi. But my 'world view' is going to be different to the Kiwi next door.

However I do get upset that it seems like Maori are more important than every other culture. Like has already been mentioned, having every gubbermint document translated into Maori seems to be a waste of money & time.

Sorry, I don't have any pictures that say this...

ok lets do this lets forget the pakeha european race words. Pics, thoughts on Whats YOUR worldveiw and then post with it what you consider yourself. Because the thing is your not going to probably agree with any collective thinking of any group you dont identify with simply because you cant. So lets do it that way then have a squizz at if the collective is the same or the majority on this site is the same view....omg did that make sense

[trump-lady]

For example, someone who has never riden a motorbike will have a very different worldview on the dangers...... Just wont ever agree cause they will never understand it.

So if I put bikes are dangerous...non biker
Bikes are not dangerous....biker

and we have 100 opinions I would think that the majority of opinions will fall into those two categories.

Diffenernt world views based on different experiences

none right or wrong (unless your a biker lol)

different people, not all thinking the same but I beleive a clear difference will be shown between those who do ride and those that dont

[trump-lady]

I think this is a really interesting question. I don't think there's a way to some up the "Pakeha World View". I don't think of myself as a Pakeha. I think of myself as a Kiwi. But my 'world view' is going to be different to the Kiwi next door.

However I do get upset that it seems like Maori are more important than every other culture. Like has already been mentioned, having every gubbermint document translated into Maori seems to be a waste of money & time.

Sorry, I don't have any pictures that say this...

Thats where Im having problems. I know kinda things I want to put but having trouble finding pics that represent it.

How can I represent that in a dvd limited to about 10 secs and using pictures?

Ive got about 30 pics and 3.50 secs done

[Big Dave]

I'm already famous :-P

20 - mating
30 - the offspring
40 - family security
50 - personal achievement

[Disco Dan]

You mean to say how a stone age people were lifted out of the mud and given all the benefits of a more advanced culture and squander it with drug, alcohol and child abuse? And have proven that no matter how many policies are made,and how much money is spent on health, education,employment based on racist criteria they still refuse to better themselves?

Nail = head.


Now many Europeans will see the NZ flag and identify with it as will some Maori, however I imagine not many Europeans are driving around with this flag on their car.

The topic of equality and of racial divide come in with that. You cannot expect a nation to work collaboratively, equally and without racial divide when there are two very different flags being flown. I realize the maori flag is just a faux flag but the maori people force it upon the nation as being real and thus recognized.

How can maori expect to be treated the same when 'they' do not treat others the same? How can we as a nation expect to progress when such a divide exists and continues to grow through continual petty claims from a particular racial group? "H" anyone?

I treat everyone as equals - as fellow human beings. Until of course a particular person gives me reason not to. Is it my fault that the majority of people that have lost or are losing that 'human equal' view point are maori & pacific islanders? no. And yes this is fair - just like I trust people, until they give me a reason not to trust them.

[sidecar bob]

Trump lady, could you please explain what these people are digging at in trying to figure out what this world veiw may be?
Quite apart from being a complete fail because there isint one world view for all of us, as has been pointed out previously, i would really like to know who wants to know & why.

[Headbanger]

How long has this thread had a poll attached to it?

In response to the poll question, There is no such thing as a pakeha.

Its a meaningless word, mere gibberish.

[trump-lady]

Nail = head.



The topic of equality and of racial divide come in with that. You cannot expect a nation to work collaboratively, equally and without racial divide when there are two very different flags being flown. I realize the maori flag is just a faux flag but the maori people force it upon the nation as being real and thus recognized.

How can maori expect to be treated the same when 'they' do not treat others the same? How can we as a nation expect to progress when such a divide exists and continues to grow through continual petty claims from a particular racial group? "H" anyone?

I treat everyone as equals - as fellow human beings. Until of course a particular person gives me reason not to. Is it my fault that the majority of people that have lost or are losing that 'human equal' view point are maori & pacific islanders? no. And yes this is fair - just like I trust people, until they give me a reason not to trust them.


Your missing the point. Im not here to say whos right and who wrong. What I am saying is there is a clear difference of worldveiws between some who veiw the NZ flag and identify with it as theres and those who identify with the the Maori flag. The difference is their world veiw and how that will influence their way of thinking even if its right or wrong. It was purely an example I thought people could identify with.


Everyone in this thread is showing their worldviews without even realising it. You are filtering through this thread what your worldview exposes you to see and your comments also reveal your worldview.

I think through this thread a common theme is occuring....there is no pakeha worldview..... and perhaps I will add this to my pictures (how Im not sure)

[Sparrowhawk]

OK, seeing as flags seem to be a good way to go - the NZ Flag as I believe it should be.

http://i1.ediy.co.nz/101061.jpg

[Disco Dan]

Your missing the point.

Probably.

Perhaps more clarification is in order. Not everyone is learning what you are learning! :blink:

[trump-lady]

Trump lady, could you please explain what these people are digging at in trying to figure out what this world veiw may be?
Quite apart from being a complete fail because there isint one world view for all of us, as has been pointed out previously, i would really like to know who wants to know & why.

Correct theres no one world veiw for all of us but there are collective worldveiws also. Like my example on my work. My agencys collective worldview based on feminist idealogy, western frameworks, no contact with offenders is the collective WV even though it is made up of 30 people. I totally disagree with this world veiw and so do my co-workers times 3. However collectively we are known still as a feminist, western agency and although my worldview is different my agencys collective still remains key in how my agency operates. I still have a different WV though.

Now this dvd is for bi cultural social work. It has 6 components, One is the conflict that exist within social work between Maori ( others ) and non-maori and how this conflict can effect relationships within social services. To do this we must as practitioners examine different worldveiws, individual and collective to further understand the potential of biculturalism in social work.

Im presuming that if we did difference between collective WV on race gender age etc NZ the dvd would be hours and hours so the dvd has been limited to Maori and Non Maori as those are who, as social workers we come in contact with.

Now as a social service practitioner for 2 years I can tell you there is a def difference in worldveiws that crosses socio-economic, race and gender. I purely wanted to seek pictures from peoples personal worldview so my presentation was not tainted by my own worldview

[trump-lady]

Probably.

Perhaps more clarification is in order. Not everyone is learning what you are learning! :blink:

Sorry that was a rude statement to make to you. That was my WV and perhaps Im missing the point in your WV! lol

just all got so complicated........

:wacko:

[idb]

Everyone in this thread is showing their worldviews without even realising it. You are filtering through this thread what your worldview exposes you to see and your comments also reveal your worldview.

I think through this thread a common theme is occuring....there is no pakeha worldview..... ...

Quite right but that doesn't help with your assignment.
It seems that the requirement is to come up with some theory of a "Pakeha worldview".

Perhaps the "Pakeha worldview" is an imperative to reject the notion of Pakeha and so any idea that there could be a Pakeha perspective, and consequently a Maori perspective.

This is shown in statements like "I'm not a Pakeha, I'm a New Zealander" and "Why should Maori be given special treatment/money/status, we should just be New Zealanders".

I suppose a corollary of this is a further worldview involving a rejection of any responsibility for injustices visited on the original inhabitants by previous generations.

How you put this into pictures I've no idea.

[Ixion]

Pretty much covers it. But I ain't no paheka nor a european either.

[trump-lady]

Quite right but that doesn't help with your assignment.
It seems that the requirement is to come up with some theory of a "Pakeha worldview".

Perhaps the "Pakeha worldview" is an imperative to reject the notion of Pakeha and so any idea that there could be a Pakeha perspective, and consequently a Maori perspective.

This is shown in statements like "I'm not a Pakeha, I'm a New Zealander" and "Why should Maori be given special treatment/money/status, we should just be New Zealanders".

I suppose a corollary of this is a further worldview involving a rejection of any responsibility for injustices visited on the original inhabitants by previous generations.

How you put this into pictures I've no idea.
I KNOW! Im thinking perhaps have the words scroll in quotes from here. Some are fantastic. I think I can add titles on windows movie maker on the story board

[Disco Dan]

Sorry that was a rude statement to make to you. That was my WV and perhaps Im missing the point in your WV! lol

just all got so complicated........

:wacko:

Well i'm probably still getting this wrong but...

maori appear to "expect entitlement" ie they expect money to be handed to them while on dole for nothing. Claiming cultural rights.

Kiwi's appear to "earn entitlement" ie they worked for years, lost their job for a month and are thankful for the help.

[idb]

I don't have an issue with being described as a Pakeha.
To me it is a New Zealand term meaning "New Zealander of Caucasian descent".
Nothing too intimidating or demeaning in that I wouldn't have thought.

[Finn]

So we are cool to call them black strangers?

Don't you mean brown settlers?

[Disco Dan]

Don't you mean brown settlers?

Sounds like something that requires a full flush not a half flush.

[mattian]

You mean to say how a stone age people were lifted out of the mud and given all the benefits of a more advanced culture and squander it with drug, alcohol and child abuse? And have proven that no matter how many policies are made,and how much money is spent on health, education,employment based on racist criteria they still refuse to better themselves?

Remind me not to visit Wanganui........ sheesh.:crazy:

[idb]

Remind me not to visit Wanganui........ sheesh.:crazy:

You mean "Whanganui"...haha got in first!!!

[Ocean1]

I predict most would say Maori when in fact Im only like a third.

Im not saying its right or wrong Im just saying I am usually identified as Maori.

Bit off topic, I really want YOU GUYS to tell me your worldveiw.

If you're 1/3 Maori by blood then you're a very rare breed indeed, and I understood no 1/2 Maoris remain at all. We are none of us "pure" anything, by breeding, and our culture is simply what set of myths, beliefs and behaviours we choose, as individuals, from amongst our perceived heritage.

I believe you're missing what I see as a fairly firm consensus. We seem to be declining to distinguish between one collection of mongrels and another when the only criteria is Culture with a capital C, a behaviour I believe is consistent with a dignified and peaceful co-existence.

A behaviour, further, I would have recognised by those setting your syllabus as both prevalent and valid, whether it agrees with their world view or otherwise. The sheer wast of time and effort such culturally sensitive “education” represents appals me, as it does the vast majority of students, who fail to see the relevance to their chosen field.

Edit:


Quite right but that doesn't help with your assignment.
It seems that the requirement is to come up with some theory of a "Pakeha worldview".

Perhaps the "Pakeha worldview" is an imperative to reject the notion of Pakeha and so any idea that there could be a Pakeha perspective, and consequently a Maori perspective.

This is shown in statements like "I'm not a Pakeha, I'm a New Zealander" and "Why should Maori be given special treatment/money/status, we should just be New Zealanders".

I suppose a corollary of this is a further worldview involving a rejection of any responsibility for injustices visited on the original inhabitants by previous generations.

How you put this into pictures I've no idea.

Snap. :apint:

[Finn]

Two social workers were walking off their $100 McDonalds lunch in South Auckland when they stumbled upon a white guy laying in the gutter, bloodied and bruised from a serious assault. They looked at each other and said, "Oh dear, I feel sorry for the fulla that did this."

[McJim]

I respect Maori culture, identity and values and therefore call Maori by the collective name they have given themselves - Maori.

I ask only that the same courtesy be extended to me. I have not chosen the name pakeha and am therefore offended any time someone uses this word to collectively describe me and my people.

I think that's fair enough don't you?

[James Deuce]

I respect Maori culture, identity and values and therefore call Maori by the collective name they have given themselves - Maori.

I ask only that the same courtesy be extended to me. I have not chosen the name pakeha and am therefore offended any time someone uses this word to collectively describe me and my people.

I think that's fair enough don't you?
Scots Git.

[ManDownUnder]

My 2 cents before I go home... each of us carries our own unique world view, which is in turn constructed, or the summation of a variety of cultural world views. Also known as schemas or frameworks.

I grew up male - that gives me a particular view on things, as well as a particular way of understanding and relating to things. Men want sex which brings on romance, women want romance which brings on sex.

I grew up White. I see money as a mechanism I can acquire land with and do what the hell I want with it. As opposed to Maori where I am a steward of the land.

I was raised with a Christian ethos rather than Muslim. I was raised in a family with particular values and ways of doing things... etc...

As a specific example of who I am and what I identify with - I was raised a Kiwi rather than American.... There is not a drop of Maori blood in me and I am from white middle class NZ. Not a Maori free zone, but I only ever set foot on a Marae during the 2 school trips I did to the local one. But sitting in a hotel in Canada I was just absolutely awestruck, felt proud to the absolute core, when about 2 tables down a group of people huddled together and started singing a Waiata.

Why? I identified with them! I was proud to be one of them...

So what the hell happened to my pakeha view of the world? It turned out to be highly contextual.

I am the summation of all those influences, as we all are. My ethnicity and cultural identity are but a part of that and depending on the situation I will either stand apart, or stand together with others around me..

that's a lot of words to say ... it's not as simple as a Pakeha world view.

[Winston001]

Good even-tempered and intelligent posts Trump-lady. :2thumbsup: Your question is simple enough but finding images to represent it hmmmm..........

An effective social-worker will understand cultural differences so they can deal with all types of families. That is what lies behind the assignment.

NZ is dominated by English systems. (In fact so is India, but that's by the way). The prevailing social attitudes are Western ie. importance of the individual, democracy, equality, private ownership of property, admiration of wealth, ambitious.

Maori by contrast are communal, believe in the importance of extended family, ancestoral history, a sense of belonging to geographic locations of origin, the individual is less important than the group, share property and wealth, etc.

Gross generalisations certainly but also a fair summary.

To find images, have a look for contrasts between Caucasians and American Indians and/or Aboriginals. Same discussion and there should be plenty out there.

[doc]

Hi all, I have to do a 5 minute DVD on Pakeha world views in a group presentation of 30 mins. I drew Pakeha Worldviews and Im finding it really hard to find short vid clips as you tube wont let you download so Ive been using pictures. (Thats alot of pictures) I thought it would be interesting to see also Kiwi Bikers views on what exactly a "Pakeha Worldview" is. Now Im taking it more as a european worldview, worldwide majority thing but really want stuff from New Zealand.

The topic is for a Bi Cultural Social Work paper and pretty much is asking us to explain how peoples world views can effect social services and practise.

Basically what do you think in terms of values, morals priorities for the majority of whiteys.

Now I know this is ganna be a pisstake, and will ruffle feathers but hopefully Ill get some good pics I can add to the movie and some short vids.

If you dont like it minimise and....as you were

Cheers

This has to be a troll. Fark sake I had a bit higher oppinion of you girl ,than this.

As I am what you are referring to as a honky, I think you are starting to appear to me as one those on the losing side, that just want to believe in a 150 plus year old setlement.
After visiting the Denpasar museum where it shows the Dutch attrocities committed agaist the Balianese. My daughter asked, "How do you feel about what happened to your grandparents in the 1900s" The guide smiled and said "We have to move on or we have no progress." She was 9 at the time and noticed in her next school project that, the Indonesians had stone buildings and metals tools. Why don't they have them in the Auckland museum. If she ever gets in to politics she believes in capital punishment. I don't.

You have let yourself down in my eyes "trump-lady"

[Winston001]

I respect Maori culture, identity and values and therefore call Maori by the collective name they have given themselves - Maori.

I ask only that the same courtesy be extended to me. I have not chosen the name pakeha and am therefore offended any time someone uses this word to collectively describe me and my people.

I think that's fair enough don't you?

Och away wi ye, yer haint even got red hair like a proper scot, must be the Weegie in ya......:whistle:

[trump-lady]

If you're 1/3 Maori by blood then you're a very rare breed indeed, and I understood no 1/2 Maoris remain at all. We are none of us "pure" anything, by breeding, and our culture is simply what set of myths, beliefs and behaviours we choose, as individuals, from amongst our perceived heritage.

I believe you're missing what I see as a fairly firm consensus. We seem to be declining to distinguish between one collection of mongrels and another when the only criteria is Culture with a capital C, a behaviour I believe is consistent with a dignified and peaceful co-existence.

A behaviour, further, I would have recognised by those setting your syllabus as both prevalent and valid, whether it agrees with their world view or otherwise. The sheer wast of time and effort such culturally sensitive “education” represents appals me, as it does the vast majority of students, who fail to see the relevance to their chosen field.

I have to disagree that this has no relevance in my field and that this is cultural sensivity. I have been told "dont bother with that family they wont let you in the door" so I to tried and was accepted immediately and told that the family just weren’t comfortable with a white person in their home. Wrong or right thats their worldview. This is extremely important information in regards to my relationship with this family. Once I know this, I am not going to request a meeting with the family and a white CYFs worker in their home. Is that cultural or this families WV?

My field is all about peoples WV and I need this awareness all the time and understanding not just ethnicity WV, Culture WV, Gender WV for the person I am dealing with. Doesnt matter if they are wrong or right I need to constantly be aware of such things in my field like this so I can work with them.



My agency is feministic. I am not a feminist however I still belong to that collective WV in that particular area of thought. So if you asked me is your agency a feminist organisation? Id say yes....doesn’t mean I am. Is that all they are? no, but history of this organisation does reflect a very feminist approach. How I deal with my conflict with that is better if I understand that YES my organisation is Feministic. Now that I can see the organisational WV on why I cant have contact with offenders I can approach things in a bi-feministic? way to my management that wont offend them and also progress my own WV.

I do this daily. Some women I want to yell FFS leave him, but I think about her world view, on family, money, love, and see thats not the way to approach the matter.
Collectively european, pakeha western ideals have some common themes. Individualism, materialistic, industrialism, education, ownership, Christianity etc etc.

[trump-lady]

I think this dvd assignment was designed simply for this reason. The topic is quite ambiguous and makes the student really think. There are no clear answers and that makes it harder, makes me think more and obviously seek new ways of dealing with it, along the way reflecting on others and self. I have to say I have thought more about this than any other assignment which usually comes easy as there are clear answers.

[doc]

Two social workers were walking off their $100 McDonalds lunch in South Auckland when they stumbled upon a white guy laying in the gutter, bloodied and bruised from a serious assault. They looked at each other and said, "Oh dear, I feel sorry for the fulla that did this."

No.It was a nurse and a social worker that found the badly beaten up person in the gutter. The nurse exclaimed "this man need my help". The social worker said what about the person that did this 'He is the person that really needs my help"

[trump-lady]

No.It was a nurse and a social worker that found the badly beaten up person in the gutter. The nurse exclaimed "this man need my help". The social worker said what about the person that did this 'He is the person that really needs my help"


and your world view on social workers is :)

PS this isnt a troll..... If you have read the whole thread and thats your world view thats your right. If you think this thread makes me a "150 year settlement" person lets have a coffee....theres so much more to me

I seriously am struggling to do this assignment! It sounds easy but fark its driving me bonkers.

The discussions are really making me think though so I value everyones input

[Bonez]

My world veiw- all our ancesters came here by boat. A pic an ocean going canoe and a sailing ship should cover it.

[trump-lady]

My world veiw- all our ancesters came here by boat. A pic an ocean going canoe and a sailing ship should cover it.

covered :)...first shot is that

[doc]

and your world view on social workers is :)


Sorry but my opinions are based on the fact that my younger sister is a Social worker working in the Northern Territorities and was involved with an Abo child being burnt at school many moons ago now. Our family always felt that as a very wealthy Honk she couldn't be an effective Social worker. Her attitudes to that case didn't change our opinions.
Nothing personal but she is nothing but an "Interferring controlling bitch"

I so stongly disagree with your post but I never red repped you. Thats for my friends. Only jokin

[trump-lady]

My world veiw- all our ancesters came here by boat. A pic an ocean going canoe and a sailing ship should cover it.

whats your personal worldveiw...like what are the things you want your children to have or be.

I know family is one and I have pics of a nuclear family
A home... I have white picket fence
Education I have Einstein
Povitism I have science stuff

[Bonez]

whats your personal worldveiw...like what are the things you want your children to have or be.Whatever they feel is right for them. It's not my place to decide for them.

You can set certainly set guidlines while they're at home, treat others as you want to be treated etc, but at the end of the day it's their choice as to what happens when they get older.

[trump-lady]

Sorry but my opinions are based on the fact that my younger sister is a Social worker working in the Northern Territorities and was involved with an Abo child being burnt at school many moons ago now. Our family always felt that as a very wealthy Honk she couldn't be an effective Social worker. Her attitudes to that case didn't change our opinions.
Nothing personal but she is nothing but an "Interferring controlling bitch"

I so stongly disagree with your post but I never red repped you. Thats for my friends. Only jokin

Could it be because she is unable to see other peoples WV ;)
I think this is extremely important in Social Work. Maybe if she had an assignment like this when she was trainning she would be different.....or failed

PS what exact post didnt you like?

[Big Dave]

Could it be because she is unable to see other peoples WV ;)
I think this is extremely important in Social Work.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_intelligence

[paturoa]

hmmmm? - some of my world view(s) in no particular order.

The world is full of 3 types of people, arseholes, sheep and thinkers.

Arseholes are always there, its just the probability being caught and of there being suitably nasty consequences of their actions that governs them.

The go with the flow types (sheep) form the majority of our glorious species. If it is the norm in their particular micro-culture to behave in certian ways, then they will. When they are doing stuff they know is wrong they will justify it to themselves and do it anyway.

Thinkers tend to operate and behave using a set of what is valid and truthful (in their own heads) set of values. Funny thing is that they think before they don't do stuff.

Trouble with this is these are not mutualy exclusive, there are overlaps.

hhmmmm?

Minorities are the most racist

hmmmm?

This religion thing is bollocks - there is no reason why, accept it, it just is OK.

hmmmm?

Our version of democracy is flawed, but I don't see any better successful options out there.

No pictures sorry.

[trump-lady]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_intelligence

Shheze Big dave thats another area of discussion.

What is intelligence and how is it measured.

depending on your worldview, answers will be all over the place

I like yours :)

[Headbanger]

You wanted pictures?


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=124715&stc=1&d=1238477816

[Big Dave]

What is intelligence and how is it measured.


Who owns the sig line about 'before you act walk a mile in another man's shoes. If it turns out badly - who cares. You're a mile away and you have his shoes.'

[trump-lady]

You wanted pictures?


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=124715&stc=1&d=1238477816


ummm I dont know what to say... what are you trying to show in that picture exactly because I have a feeling my interpretation might be different.....

[Fatjim]

haven't you just lumped all "Maoris" in together? i.e. done the same thing?

And your point is? This whole thread was started because someone wanted to lump all people with European descent into a worldview. I can't think of a more diverse racial/cultural mix as the Europeans, except maybe Asians.

If you expect a people who have lived within the confines a such a small collection of Islands as NZ for less than 1000 years to be as diverse/complex as say Negros, Asians, Europeans or Melanesians well......

[Genestho]

And your point is? This whole thread was started because someone wanted to lump all people with European descent into a worldview. I can't think of a more diverse racial/cultural mix as the Europeans, except maybe Asians.



:niceone:
What is a pakeha? A white kiwi?
Descendants of early settlers from Europe, and in generations since?

What is a world view? Opinions, priorities, or perceptions of?
A world view is not a constant; your priorities, or what you perceive in life as important (or your 'world view')... change with age, and life experiences.
Because we all have different life experiences, environments and characteristics, our world views are going to be unique, no matter from where in history, or for that that matter, in the world we as 'pakehas' descend from.
Couldn't we also say that of Maoris? So would we have the same world views, and priority lists...which make us kiwi's? Or part of humanity?
Oh boy...shouldn't have read this thread LOL...

Strange topic, Although I do understand the required outcome.
Goodluck. :yes:

I'd be interested to know if anyone is doing a paper on the Maori World view...

[Skyryder]

Nope. No such thing as a Pakeha world view. There are far too many social groups based on financial income etc. Opinions tend to be based more on the class or social position than on any white or colour ethinticity grouping

I would hazzard a guess that this is true in most cultures if not all.


Skyyrder

[98tls]

Interesting thread,times are a changing.I guess in such a society we have to accept all opinions,to label them wrong or right changes nothing,wrong or right.House prices though is an entirely different matter.lol.

[Skyryder]

Interesting thread,times are a changing.I guess in such a society we have to accept all opinions,to label them wrong or right changes nothing,wrong or right.House prices though is an entirely different matter.lol.

Yep white houses cost more than black ones:jerry:


Skyryder

[98tls]

Yep white houses cost more than black ones:jerry:


Skyryder :confused:OI you cant say the B word.:shit:

[trump-lady]

:niceone:
What is a pakeha? A white kiwi?
Descendants of early settlers from Europe, and in generations since?

Your priorities, or what you perceive in life as important (or your 'world view')... change with age, and life experiences.
Because we all have different life experiences, environments and characteristics, our world views are going to be unique, no matter from where in history, or for that that matter, in the world we as 'pakehas' descend from.
Strange topic, Although I do understand the required outcome.
Goodluck. :yes:

I'd be interested to know if anyone is doing a paper on the Maori World view...

yes the dvd is divided into 6 sections. Maori worldview is in there as is some other stuff like holistic, mythology. We (Group of six) divided the topic into 6 and I drew this one :( So all 6 are to make a 4-5 minute contribution to one final 30 minute dvd.

Im finding it hard not to impose my worldview on this assignment and stay neutral....I dont consider myself Pakeha or Maori.... So i thought Id throw it out there.

[Dean]

I respect Maori culture, identity and values and therefore call Maori by the collective name they have given themselves - Maori.

I ask only that the same courtesy be extended to me. I have not chosen the name pakeha and am therefore offended any time someone uses this word to collectively describe me and my people.

I think that's fair enough don't you?

That's right, the word "pakeha" is the same as the "N' word. Both are used with intent to discriminate.
Its tricky to catorigize a group of people, depending on their race/ethnicity without offending. Foreinstance most people would say "that black man" instead of "that african american", these days a slip of the tounge can get you in to trouble.
My maths teacher told me that in south africa if someone called him "coloured" the person could be charged.

[Genestho]

yes the dvd is divided into 6 sections. Maori worldview is in there as is some other stuff like holistic, mythology. We (Group of six) divided the topic into 6 and I drew this one :( So all 6 are to make a 4-5 minute contribution to one final 30 minute dvd.

Im finding it hard not to impose my worldview on this assignment and stay neutral....I dont consider myself Pakeha or Maori.... So i thought Id throw it out there.
Hehe, you got me thinking!
Had to came back and edit...my apologies I have'nt read all the posts :doh:
You got a tricky job on there girl!!!

I guess if you over analyse it, it's too complex, or really very simple... I'd simplify it dude! I'm sure once you sit back you'll see your options...as I say, goodluck!

[Headbanger]

ummm I dont know what to say... what are you trying to show in that picture exactly because I have a feeling my interpretation might be different.....

You ask many questions, How about you tell tell me your interpretation?

[McJim]

that in south africa if someone called him "coloured" the person could be charged.
Man that could suck if someone was called Colin Erd and his mates abreviated his first name to Col :rofl:

Trump-Lady you could win extra points by saying that your research has shown that the worldviews held by those brutally categorised by the name Pakeha are so varied that many of them mirror Maori worldviews. If we take for example an impoverished white Catholic family in Glasgow or Belfast they are struggling against centuries of oppression by protestant leaders, they value family above all else and are deeply religious with heritage stretching back over a thousand years. Their obstinate loyalty to their identity is their undoing and makes them victims of the Police and State as well as making it difficult for their children to gain a quality education or gainful employment. Alcoholism is rife as is domestic violence and abuse. When help is sought outside of their community people blame their culture for the way they are and tell them that they have no one to blame but themsleves.

And many people thought this kind of predicament was brought on by the colour of someones skin......where I come from the doctors, lawyers and accountants have dark skin. The white people are the poor downtrodden natives.

[Dean]

Man that could suck if someone was called Colin Erd and his mates abreviated his first name to Col :rofl:

Lol:laugh:, would work well on prank calls, call up the pizza hut and ask for mr coloured while a south african police officer is at the table.

[Ocean1]

I have to disagree that this has no relevance in my field and that this is cultural sensivity. I have been told "dont bother with that family they wont let you in the door" so I to tried and was accepted immediately and told that the family just weren’t comfortable with a white person in their home. Wrong or right thats their worldview. This is extremely important information in regards to my relationship with this family. Once I know this, I am not going to request a meeting with the family and a white CYFs worker in their home. Is that cultural or this families WV?

My field is all about peoples WV and I need this awareness all the time and understanding not just ethnicity WV, Culture WV, Gender WV for the person I am dealing with. Doesnt matter if they are wrong or right I need to constantly be aware of such things in my field like this so I can work with them.

You think that sort of prejudice and bigotry is simply culture or some sort of world view? That you need but adjust your own tolerance for such socially damaging behaviour? It’s neither, you’re pandering to the attitudes and prejudices which no doubt required the services of a social worker in the first place. I’m of the opinion that it very much matters whether they’re right or wrong, when you’re prepared to separate right and wrong behaviour from that driven by legitimate cultural mores you’ll have some chance of making a difference, and not until.


My agency is feministic. I am not a feminist however I still belong to that collective WV in that particular area of thought. So if you asked me is your agency a feminist organisation? Id say yes....doesn’t mean I am. Is that all they are? no, but history of this organisation does reflect a very feminist approach. How I deal with my conflict with that is better if I understand that YES my organisation is Feministic. Now that I can see the organisational WV on why I cant have contact with offenders I can approach things in a bi-feministic? way to my management that wont offend them and also progress my own WV. I do this daily. Some women I want to yell FFS leave him, but I think about her world view, on family, money, love, and see thats not the way to approach the matter.

Oh please, you go to the extent of significantly altering your own behaviour to appease your clients AND your management and you’re not a feminist? Grow some balls, be yourself, if that precludes you from working in your chosen field then at least you’ll know who you are.


Collectively european, pakeha western ideals have some common themes. Individualism, materialistic, industrialism, education, ownership, Christianity etc etc.

Trite. I’d translate it into less emotively... indoctrinated terminology. But then, you could do that yourself if you tried eh?

[trump-lady]

Good even-tempered and intelligent posts Trump-lady. :2thumbsup: Your question is simple enough but finding images to represent it hmmmm..........

An effective social-worker will understand cultural differences so they can deal with all types of families. That is what lies behind the assignment.

NZ is dominated by English systems. (In fact so is India, but that's by the way). The prevailing social attitudes are Western ie. importance of the individual, democracy, equality, private ownership of property, admiration of wealth, ambitious.

Maori by contrast are communal, believe in the importance of extended family, ancestoral history, a sense of belonging to geographic locations of origin, the individual is less important than the group, share property and wealth, etc.

Gross generalisations certainly but also a fair summary.

To find images, have a look for contrasts between Caucasians and American Indians and/or Aboriginals. Same discussion and there should be plenty out there.

I think this is what its about, (well my interpretation of the things they want in this segment of the assignment) ..... heres a pic I found that says alot.

Democracy I havent covered yet so TY :)

I think Im going to put the poll in also, and some quotes from here for and against the idea and then who ever watches it can form their own opinion. I dont think theres a right or wrong and although I think I got the hardest task! I think im on the right track and I really believe this was a challange the lecturers were wanting. I need to remove my own worldviews opinions and beleifs in this assignment just like I would in my field of work.

[idb]

.... I need to remove my own worldviews opinions and beleifs in this assignment just like I would in my field of work.

That can't be done.
Your interpretation of anything will be partly determined by your own prejudices...or is that prejudi?

[trump-lady]

You think that sort of prejudice and bigotry is simply culture or some sort of world view? That you need but adjust your own tolerance for such socially damaging behaviour? It’s neither, you’re pandering to the attitudes and prejudices which no doubt required the services of a social worker in the first place. I’m of the opinion that it very much matters whether they’re right or wrong, when you’re prepared to separate right and wrong behaviour from that driven by legitimate cultural mores you’ll have some chance of making a difference, and not until.



Oh please, you go to the extent of significantly altering your own behaviour to appease your clients AND your management and you’re not a feminist? Grow some balls, be yourself, if that precludes you from working in your chosen field then at least you’ll know who you are.



Trite. I’d translate it into less emotively... indoctrinated terminology. But then, you could do that yourself if you tried eh?

If I have any chance of changing a wrong behaviour or someones destructivness to society I have to understand that persons WV on the matter. It doesnt mean I agree with them or share it. It just helps me decide how to approach it. Catering to them... no because why would I attempt to change a view that wasnt destructive? In attempting to change an attitude have I not already established its destructive, but again I still need their WV to approach it in a meaningful way that is less threatening to them and just might work and hope like crap they respond.

As for your last comment, Ive been in this job for 4 months and I am currently looking a disiplinary action and have been asked to "modify my behaviour" due to my "balls". I apparently dont fit the organisations WV.

As for my clients, same thing. You ganna piss me around then Ill move to the next. I dont do anything for free. You want a food parcel, ok if you get budgeting. I dont appease them but I listen first to see where their WV are and then go to work on that.

Maybe I am a terrible social worker...dunno but for now I just wanna get this assignment done and done well

[trump-lady]

Man that could suck if someone was called Colin Erd and his mates abreviated his first name to Col :rofl:

Trump-Lady you could win extra points by saying that your research has shown that the worldviews held by those brutally categorised by the name Pakeha are so varied that many of them mirror Maori worldviews.

Can I steal that? I like

[trump-lady]

That can't be done.
Your interpretation of anything will be partly determined by your own prejudices...or is that prejudi?

your right.... Im just trying to represent what I have been asked to do in the most fair way possible by getting input and ideas. Origionally I didnt even think of "there is no one pakeha world veiw" or that there is such controversy over calling someone a Pakeha. Never thought of it cause Ive never been called one. Democracy I missed too.Also Womens rights to vote....The comments on here have made me think about that some more and will be added due to Kiwibiker.

I feel like an Muslim trying to give a worldveiw on Asians

[Big Dave]

.or is that prejudi?

That's a Popadom.

[idb]

That's a Popadom.

The paternal version of femdom?
How do I even know that word?

[98tls]

If I have any chance of changing a wrong behaviour or someones destructivness to society I have to understand that persons WV on the matter. It doesnt mean I agree with them or share it. It just helps me decide how to approach it. Understanding to a degree is easy,changing however is vastly different,expressing your opinion/societies opinion as you view it will in general change nothing,it will however in many cases provide a means to pay a mortgage etc therefore making it a viable proposition which can be justified if need be but still change nothing.Funny ole world eh.

[mowgli]

You got it batboy. Any racism in New Zealand is being fostered by just the type of assignment that the OP has been given. The sooner that the people who are driving this racial agenda can accept that we are one people in one country, the sooner any racism will disappear.

That'll never happen. There's simply too much money in complaining. Oink!

[McJim]

Can I steal that? I like

I hope you do. I think it's symptomatic of the isolated geographic nature of New Zealand that the views of many people here only take into account the world within these shores.

New Zealand has been deeply enriched in the past few decades by people who have travelled to and lived in many different countries and I don't just mean as an OE where they say they went to Europe but only lived in London. I mean people who have been imersed in the cultural underbellies of many different cultures and have a helluva lot of experience to offer. For the most part when we make suggestions to improve the lot of the average Kiwi we are told to either:
a/ Get over it (this means we know there's a problem but we're simply not going to do anything about it coz we've always done things this way)
or
b/ harden the f*ck up (I am afraid so I must show you how macho I am by belittling you and your good idea).

There is an entire World outside your borders - I met a large number of New Zealanders in London. Most of them just wanted to get pissed and party and almost none of them had much Maori blood in them. Why do the Maori not do their OE like the white ones? Maori could benefit by seeing how poor and alcoholic and drug dependant white people can be in their native land. I'd love to take someone from Otara or Mangere and show them Easterhouse or South Nitshill or Wester Hailes just to see the look of shock on their faces.

[Tank]

That's a Popadom.

Someone say popadom?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnKMehoLaF8

(sorry it wont let me embed)

[McJim]

Sorry to butt in again but here's an article that quotes findings from the World Health Organisation
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article4629867.ece
I wonder where Mangere and Otara figure when compared to Calton?

[Dave Lobster]

I wonder where Mangere and Otara figure when compared to Calton?

It'd be interesting to see if the sort of things that drag Glasgow (etc) down below India are the same in Mangere. ie, poor diet of fatty food, cigarette addiction, alcohol addiction.

Does Glasgow have a pokey machine in every state house?

[Okey Dokey]

This thread annoys me and I can't quite decide why?

1) there have been too many students asking for help on their assignments here lately?

2) the term Pakeha has no meaning and yet is so offensive?

3) social workers and their training is so PC; but then again, who would want to deal with the folks they see every day?

I don't know... it just bugs me and here I am at a stupid time of night posting about it!!!!

[merv]

Well I told you my world view on naming cities here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=2007342&postcount=20 and it is a significant point when the poor old Pakeha in this society (and probably for all Europeans worldwide) seem to have to kowtow to anyone with a darker skin because its not "politically correct" to have your own culture and view ahead of them (the poor downtrodden - yeah right!!).

[idb]

Can someone please explain to me what is so offensive about being called a Pakeha?

[98tls]

This thread annoys me and I can't quite decide why?

1) there have been too many students asking for help on their assignments here lately?

2) the term Pakeha has no meaning and yet is so offensive?

3) social workers and their training is so PC; but then again, who would want to deal with the folks they see every day?

I don't know... it just bugs me and here I am at a stupid time of night posting about it!!!! Or possibly the fact that your from North Otago means your just stupid.J/K.

[Usarka]

I haven't read the thread so I have no idea how relevant this anecdote is, and it doesn't really have a point......

Was in hospital and was told I could eat solids. Yay, so I joked about getting KFC. "Yes you can do that" I was told.

WTF I was just kidding. Nope, it's allowed for, get this, cultural reasons. :lol:

[Okey Dokey]

Or possibly the fact that your from North Otago means your just stupid.

THAT must be it! Thanks now I can go to sleep... :yes:

[98tls]

THAT must be it! Thanks now I can go to sleep... :yes: :laugh:On ya,have a good un.

[Whynot]

I haven't read the thread so I have no idea how relevant this anecdote is, and it doesn't really have a point......

Was in hospital and was told I could eat solids. Yay, so I joked about getting KFC. "Yes you can do that" I was told.

WTF I was just kidding. Nope, it's allowed for, get this, cultural reasons. :lol:

I was in hospital a while ago and the Samoan guy across from me got his family to smuggle KFC in even when he wasn't meant to be eating ....

[98tls]

I was in hospital a while ago and the Samoan guy across from me got his family to smuggle KFC in even when he wasn't meant to be eating .... Why not its not like they have to pay for it.

[trump-lady]

so should I pics of brown people eating KFC and playing pokies?

This isnt a race debate. Worldviews arent just neg.... Theres gotta be pos veiws. I dont want my part to be all about bad symbolic race issues. What bout agriculture, science, law, politics, womens rights to vote, medicine, democracy...Thats what I was thinking before this thread. My worldview was that "pakeha" have some great WV. Im afraid I havent seen many here. It would be very easy to do this in a racial way, but thats boring and expected.

As a part "pakeha" person I am disapointed. I def think if this is all we can come up to represent that half of me then Ill do 5 mins of black screen with pakeha have no world view scrolling.

Ill prob get hung for that but im tired and out of all this got only about four pics and useful input.

[fire eyes]

There is an entire World outside your borders - I met a large number of New Zealanders in London. Most of them just wanted to get pissed and party and almost none of them had much Maori blood in them. Why do the Maori not do their OE like the white ones? Maori could benefit by seeing how poor and alcoholic and drug dependant white people can be in their native land. I'd love to take someone from Otara or Mangere and show them Easterhouse or South Nitshill or Wester Hailes just to see the look of shock on their faces.

Awesome point. Going overseas to explore the big wide world was never something that was encouraged in my family or my extended familes. Working & surviving was. Education was encouraged but 'keeping the homefires burning' was predominantly endorsed. Alot of disadvantages in that I totally agree but that's how it was ...

[smoky]

Colonialist world view;
Nothing happens until you put some structure in place and form some rules around it. the empire was the greatest thing that happened to less developed cultures, we have bought medicine, education, technology, civilisation to Maori
while there may be some disadvantages the advantages by far out-weigh them. I treat everyone the same regardless of what culture or race they are.

Maori World view;
Nothing happens in the physical unless it happens in the spiritual first, we don't own the land, we belong to it, strength, ability is mana, the respect for tapu, whakawhanongatanga, manikitanga, ariki and whakapapa. There things that need to be done to bring about a restoration of balance to this country - utu, matuku.
The current settlements are only a first step, the right to govern is not the right to rule.

Pakeha world view;
The infamous Tama Iti once said to me "Pakeha culture is Maori culture with carpets". I am pakeha simply because I am 5th generation New Zealand, 1/64 Tuhoe, the rest is a comfortable mix of Polish Jew, Australian, Kuri and Cornish (no European). I have all the advantages of being white, I am not brown enough to be considered Maori. But find I have an affinity for Maori Tekanga, protocol! Values.
One but not the other - living in one world, celebrating the journey of the other
In my view the Don Brashes of our country say they treat everyone as equal, unfortunately some are born more equal than others.
And as long as by equal they mean how things are in their colonialist world
The Hone Harawira's of this country think everyone should embrace Maori culture over western culture, we should all have to speak Te Reo.
I don't think either is right, but I like how we are mixing the two cultures together more and more each generation. I hope we can embrace the good in both cultures.

[SARGE]

You could point out how being called a Pakeha changes folks view of the world.

Being called a European is as 'offensive' as calling a Maori a Samoan. Just not where I'm from any more.

They need a new word.

honkey??


Cracker???



i garen-damn-tee my American world view is 180 degrees from alot of the Kiwi views

[Ocean1]

Maybe I am a terrible social worker...dunno but for now I just wanna get this assignment done and done well

And I wish you well.

I understand your success depends on producing a presentation that fits the company line.

I hope you understand that dogma has absolutely nothing positive to contribute in teaching anyone how to perform as an effective social worker.

[Ixion]

s

Ill prob get hung for that but im tired and out of all this got only about four pics and useful input.

I gave y' one. Y' didn't want to see it.

I'll give you some words if y' want.

Duty
Honour
Justice
Solidarity
From each according to his means, to each according to his needs
Don't let a mate down
Do what y'need to do
Loyalty
Self sufficiency
Use it up, make it do
#8 wire
If you can't afford it, don't have it
Many hands make light work
Nobody respects a bludger
Nothing venture nothing gain


So what more d' y' need?

[idb]

so should I pics of brown people eating KFC and playing pokies?

This isnt a race debate. Worldviews arent just neg.... Theres gotta be pos veiws. I dont want my part to be all about bad symbolic race issues. What bout agriculture, science, law, politics, womens rights to vote, medicine, democracy...Thats what I was thinking before this thread. My worldview was that "pakeha" have some great WV. Im afraid I havent seen many here. It would be very easy to do this in a racial way, but thats boring and expected.

As a part "pakeha" person I am disapointed. I def think if this is all we can come up to represent that half of me then Ill do 5 mins of black screen with pakeha have no world view scrolling.

Ill prob get hung for that but im tired and out of all this got only about four pics and useful input.

For a bit of light relief...
http://whatwhitepeoplelike.com/

There's plenty on this thread to get you going, don't buy into any of the arguments here but view them dispassionately and try to work out what the overall themes are.

[trump-lady]

I gave y' one. Y' didn't want to see it.




So what more d' y' need?

Pics? lol

Thats exactly what I wanna see....

[Winston001]

........ you’re pandering to the attitudes and prejudices which no doubt required the services of a social worker in the first place. I’m of the opinion that it very much matters whether they’re right or wrong, when you’re prepared to separate right and wrong behaviour from that driven by legitimate cultural mores you’ll have some chance of making a difference, and not until.




Absolutely agree - and Trumpy-girl has already shown she understands that.

Some things are just wrong. Bashing kids, female circumcision. Never mind cultural excuses, these are not acceptable ways to treat another human being.

But - to change the cultural behaviour, you need to understand it in context. That enables you to show respect at the same time as explaining certain changes of perspective: people do change given time and treated with dignity.

[Ixion]

You already had one (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=2006660&postcount=60). Sums it all up as far as MY world view is concerned

[Winston001]

I'll give you some words if y' want.

Duty
Honour
Justice
Solidarity
From each according to his means, to each according to his needs
Don't let a mate down
Do what y'need to do
Loyalty
Self sufficiency
Use it up, make it do
#8 wire
If you can't afford it, don't have it
Many hands make light work
Nobody respects a bludger
Nothing venture nothing gain




What planet are you on Ix? Generation Y wouldn't even grasp half of those concepts. :confused: Sadly mate they belong to a mythical past which we fondly recall.......

[fire eyes]

This thread annoys me and I can't quite decide why?

2) the term Pakeha has no meaning and yet is so offensive?


We were raised with the understanding that the word 'Pakeha' simply means those who are not of the same. Be it way of living and way of being.

I have never applied the term 'pakeha' in a derogatory form as far as I am concerned it is not ... but things can become distorted sometimes :(

[trump-lady]

You already had one (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=2006660&postcount=60). Sums it all up as far as MY world view is concerned


yes and I stole it and have added it already

[James Deuce]

Everyone's world view is ultimately the same, isn't it?

"What's in it for me?"

[trump-lady]

What planet are you on Ix? Generation Y wouldn't even grasp half of those concepts. :confused: Sadly mate they belong to a mythical past which we fondly recall.......

But it is at least an honest worlview. Im sifting through this thread to get some commonalities, if everyone did this Id be able to get ideas I havent thought of.....half the struggle.

Then find pics.... I got one minute left i think ill dedicate to quotes from on here

[Ocean1]

"What's in it for me?"

Depends.

How much can you pay?

[Ocean1]

I got one minute left i think ill dedicate to quotes from on here

Did it occur to you to check signatures?

[trump-lady]

Interesting...most who voted yes to pakeha having a world view havent posted.....

[trump-lady]

Did it occur to you to check signatures?

yes I have grabbed 2 already

[trump-lady]

Ok my WV at the moment is Im going to bed to sleep and prepare for a lovely day of work tomorrow.

TY ALL for your input so far

Hope I stirred a couple of brain cells along the way :)

[phaedrus]

You could point out how being called a Pakeha changes folks view of the world.

Being called a European is as 'offensive' as calling a Maori a Samoan. Just not where I'm from any more.

They need a new word.

Whenever i'm asked what ethnicity i am i answer with Terran, strangely i end up being listed as nz-european anyway..

anyway.. world view..

The world is a fucked up place.
just do the best you can with what you've got for yourself and family. Then work to improve it. (family may not necessarily be related)

[scumdog]

Whenever i'm asked what ethnicity i am i answer with Terran, strangely i end up being listed as nz-european anyway..

anyway.. world view..

The world is a fucked up place.
just do the best you can with what you've got for yourself and family. Then work to improve it. (family may not necessarily be related)

And luckily we ain't here for long anyway...

[Motu]

What about Hippies? We are a minority these days - but some of us still hold fast to the old ideals.Cool,bummer,freaky,dude - the words of our culture are deeply ingrained in modern society.

I've still got my long hair in a draw somewhere....

[phaedrus]

And luckily we ain't here for long anyway...
hehe, speak for yourself. I intend to hang around a while.

[scumdog]

What about Hippies? We are a minority these days - but some of us still hold fast to the old ideals.Cool,bummer,freaky,dude - the words of our culture are deeply ingrained in modern society.

I've still got my long hair in a draw somewhere....

Actually it's a 'drawer' Mot old chap...:whistle:

[SARGE]

What about Hippies? We are a minority these days - but some of us still hold fast to the old ideals.Cool,bummer,freaky,dude - the words of our culture are deeply ingrained in modern society.

I've still got my long hair in a draw somewhere....

stinkin hippies


i still have my locks somewhere too.. i was more of a "gritter (http://onlineslangdictionary.com/definition+of/gritter)" though

[scumdog]

stinkin hippies


i still have my locks somewhere too.. i was more of a "gritter (http://onlineslangdictionary.com/definition+of/gritter)" though

Still as black as ever and as flowing as I want.:bleh:

[Oscar]

What about Hippies? We are a minority these days - but some of us still hold fast to the old ideals.Cool,bummer,freaky,dude - the words of our culture are deeply ingrained in modern society.

I've still got my long hair in a draw somewhere....

Hippies (even aging ones) don't ride BMW's.

Dentists ride BMW's.

Aging hippies ride aging Triumphs or XS650's.

[Big Dave]

Still as black as ever and as flowing as I want.:bleh:


Amateur. <tenchars> </tenchars>

[SARGE]

Still as black as ever and as flowing as I want.:bleh:

mines flowing too ...


right down the fuckin sink :shit:

[Motu]

Hippies (even aging ones) don't ride BMW's.

Dentists ride BMW's.

Aging hippies ride aging Triumphs or XS650's.

But if I support a dentist in the lifestyle he's accustomed to - can I ride one too...please? And if I make it sound and handle like a Triumph or XS650 (no,it could never handle that bad) then it's ok to sing a bit of Neil Young inside my helmet....

[Oscar]

But if I support a dentist in the lifestyle he's accustomed to - can I ride one too...please? And if I make it sound and handle like a Triumph or XS650 (no,it could never handle that bad) then it's ok to sing a bit of Neil Young inside my helmet....

Neil Young moved on.
He's the Godfather of Punk.

[candor]

World view - consciously or mostly unconsciously living by a values set typical of a culture. Causes a bias that will make you fitter for dealing with some issues and less fit for dealing with others - than cultural competitors (that word reflects a Darwin cultural awareness).

Many are severely mongrelised by now. Much poly - euro blending in thinking. Raised with 2 cultures I can simultaneously see and feel the Euro (Scots more than UK) and the Maori view, makes life confusing sometimes.

This is the right course by this value set, but that is by the other one. When both choices appeal equally best to give regard to predominant culture of others impacted by your course of action / proceeding. Or be damned.

I think presenting pictures of two world views endangers of dated stereotypes, as theres much cross pollination here we're not even aware of, and assumptions are not safe - need checking - unless talking of the aged.

But if I had to pick 2 representative pictures
For Maori -Kanohi ki te kanohi sorting a problem or team working eg in kitchen or that typical warm greeting style
Settler descendents - Quarter acre section, 2 kids with furry pet or bagpipes played as Sallies collect or kids scots dancing or doing ballet or encouraged to compete in individual pursuits like piano or sandcastle competition.
To show world view seepage a 3rd - Young Europeans having a body at home, or young Maori getting into status designer labels

[candor]

Domestic violence. My agency says the offender is offender and we dont deal with them. Im Maori and this world view doesnt sit well as I think healing a whanau is a whanau process. Its also quite feministic and I dont believe DV equals split families. I believe you can have a couple that just needs the right tools to modify their behaviour....two world views, two perspectives that can cause conflict in my practise.

For example. Positivism.... Individualism..... Cultural reproduction....


I say ignore these words and mulling over cultural "views" or preferences in DV situations and go with the evidence.

If it says these "tools" work as per your cultural view then do it. If it says the "other cultures" view / tool of seperating assaulter from assaulted works -do it.

My understanding of the evidence is that seperation is normally best, and providing tools is typically the weaker long shot intervention. I think this is a common view based on cross cultural global research of long tern outcomes of violent relationships - not just a Western treatment perspective. The stats speak of unacceptable risks and I don't think that is just feminists putting spin on it. Death is hard to fake. And female abusers don't quit easy either.

I've shared this link before, being provided by a murder victim pre her death as a warning and DV education resource to stop complacency. Its sedating and shows its no issue to muck round with -

http://www.angelfire.com/nj3/stoptheviolence/

Be wary of reading Bruce Daniels Police interview transcript / confession at pg bottom (graphic, sad and sickening).

[Dave Lobster]

Shouldn't more asian views be taken into consideration these days?

There's more of them here than maoris.

Or, don't the asians require the intervention of the social services as much?

[sidecar bob]

One thing that this thread has highlighted is that Maori still see this country as being occupied by Maori & "Pakeha" whatever they are, whereas the eueopean inhabitants seem to be more of the "we're all kiwi" attitude.
Until Maori change their "world view" this country will remain divided.

[Trudes]

Sorry Trumplady, have no pictures for you, but thought you might be interested in something I wrote for an essay I completed a few weeks ago. You've probably done something similar, I was asked to give my cultural WV and how it connects to Maori WV. Anyway, might give you an idea for a pic or something (also might give some who find the name Pakeha offensive another way of thinking about it...)

I often feel Pakeha have a confused sense of culture and identity, often having different traditions and values depending upon where their family immigrated from and how long ago. Pakeha culture appears to me to have a noticeable lack of distinctly recognisable and identifiable cultural practices that are unique to Pakeha. Unlike Maori who have customs such as powiri, hongi, tangi, tapu and mana to name a few, Pakeha don’t appear to have anything that is exclusive to Pakeha culture. Maori also have their own language and distinct objects that are identifiably Maori such as tiki, moko, poi and marae for instance, Pakeha do not have things that are instantly recognised as Pakeha. Pakeha culture seems to me to be a mix of English traditions that have been adapted to suit a different country with a different climate and geography and some Maori culture and themes that have been adopted depending upon circumstance.

I feel Pakeha often differ in how much they have incorporated Maori culture into their way of life by embracing being a Pakeha and become a part of Aotearoa New Zealand. The name Pakeha is a Maori name for European New Zealanders and as Mike Grimshaw (cited in Mikaere, 2004, p.7) reasoned ‘I am Pakeha because I live in a Maori country’. Mikaere supported that statement by stating that nowhere else in the world can someone be Pakeha than in Aotearoa New Zealand. I feel the name Pakeha is often a source of misunderstanding and even shame amongst Pakeha people, often depending upon what their understanding of what the name means and what it stands for. I embrace the name Pakeha given to me by Maori as I find it does give me a sense of identity and belonging within Aotearoa New Zealand. I don’t consider myself English, Irish or Scottish because my ancestors came from there. I know only Aotearoa New Zealand as my home and because I am not Maori, but of European decent, I am Pakeha. I also acknowledge the role my race played in the marginalisation and oppression of Maori, however as Mikaere (2004, p.7) alleged, it is up to Pakeha to decide whether we continue to link the name Pakeha with that of the oppressor or whether we wish to turn that around by supporting Maori in their aspirations, embrace tikanga Maori and have some pride in the name Pakeha. I believe the reason I have accepted being Pakeha has a lot to do with the connections I made with Maori culture when I was younger.

[Jantar]

..... I know only Aotearoa New Zealand as my home and because I am not Maori, but of European decent, I am Pakeha. ......

This also applies to 100% of the people who call themselves Maori. As long as terms such as Maori and Pakaeha are used to diffrentiate between New Zealanders of many generations then there will be a racial divide. It is one being fostered by the mixed race calling themselves Maori on to the mixed race who the Maori call Pakeha.

I am a New Zealander, neither Maori nor Pakeha.

[merv]

Aging hippies ride aging Triumphs or XS650's.

Yeah, where is Jackrat these days?

[merv]

I am a New Zealander, neither Maori nor Pakeha.

Right on :yes:

[Trudes]

I would rather be called Pakeha than Honkey, so yeah I'm happy with it.
"New Zealander" is my origin of birth or residency, not my ethnicity. I don't hear many Maori referring to people of Asian or African decent as Pakeha, I'm afraid it's a race thing, and as much as we'd all like to live in a country/world where we are all seen for who we are and not we are, unfortunately that's probably never going to happen, people will continue to put others into a category. As long as we call Maori Maori, Maori will call people of European decent who were born in NZ, Pakeha, (sorry all those "white" folks out there who are from Scotland, Ireland etc, you look like a Pakeha so I guess you'll get called one, brown is brown, white is white, people make mistakes, by all means correct them/us).
I just see it as a way of belonging in NZ. I guess someone could think of a better name for us and promote it of course. Yes, we are all New Zealanders, but some are Maori and some are not, I don't want to be referred to as an "other", I was born here, so were my parents and most of my grandparents, I belong here now. I do get what you're saying, Australian white folk are Australians, the "black fellas" are Aborigines, but they also differentiate.... "Wog" anyone? I would think most countries does it to some degree, especially colonised ones.
Anyway, you can call yourself whatever you want, but it's harder to get other people to stop calling it as they see it.

[Headbanger]

My ethnicity sure as hell isn't defined by a word uttered by bush people a couple hundred years ago when they first saw a white man.

My ethnicity is defined by my heritage which going back 4 generations is all New Zealand.

[sidecar bob]

I would rather be called Pakeha than Honkey, so yeah I'm happy with it.


Im not. Both are total insults, i wonder which term Maori would be happier with, Nigger or Bantu.

[Trudes]

Both are total insults, i wonder which term Maori would be happier with, Nigger or Bantu. Same only different

Try them and see which one they prefer.

[Grahameeboy]

Try them and see which one they prefer.

You know...if we were all turned inside out we would all be the same colour.........get my point....

[Grahameeboy]

This also applies to 100% of the people who call themselves Maori. As long as terms such as Maori and Pakaeha are used to diffrentiate between New Zealanders of many generations then there will be a racial divide. It is one being fostered by the mixed race calling themselves Maori on to the mixed race who the Maori call Pakeha.

I am a New Zealander, neither Maori nor Pakeha.

I am "Me".........labels are bad

[Headbanger]

You know...if we were all turned inside out we would all be the same colour.........get my point....

Would that be done instantly on a world wide scale?,or slowly one by one?

[Ixion]

What planet are you on Ix? Generation Y wouldn't even grasp half of those concepts. :confused: Sadly mate they belong to a mythical past which we fondly recall.......

I disagree. I know many people of that generation . I think that they would endorse most of those terms . Maybe not always live up to them, but that's always been a struggle for everyone . Throughout history we have done those things we ought not to have done and left undone those thing we ought to have done . And they are certainly not a mythical past as far as I am concerned (unless I myself am part of a mythical past)

EDIT And there's another part of a WV in there for those that can recognise it.

[Usarka]

Being a "pakeha" is like being a man.

You get everyone elses cultures and rights thrown at you, but you aren't allowed either yourself.

I'm a new zealander too, new zealand has a culture. Pakeha doesn't.

[MisterD]

Q: What's the difference between Australia and a glass of milk?

A: If you left a glass of milk in the sun for 200 years it would develop a culture.

Sorry, BD, could...not...resist...

[Finn]

The next person to use the term "Pakeha" will be banned from the site.

[MisterD]

Making an effort with the pictures, best I can do to illustrate my worldview is these two photos...

One is Derwent Water the other, Kenepuru Sound...

[jetboy]

I have always found the term "Pakeha" (sorry Spank) to be derogatory.

I remember an incident I had at high school a wee while ago. My social studies teacher asked the class if they knew what "Pakeha" ment, and the majority responded "White Pig", which was apparently the correct answer. When asked what the word "Maori' ment I responded "Black Pig" and got booted out of class.

I am not a racist and strongly believe in the "One People, One Country" ideology and my comment above was a piss-take, seriously.

I just HATE the word Pakeha. Why can't I be a New Zealander? Or a Kiwi? Why do I have to be labled with what I take as a derogatory term and it is considered OK?
If I were Maori I would hate being referred to as the N-word and other such names.

[Usarka]

If I were Maori I would hate being referred to as the N-word and other such names.

That's why no one refers to Maori with the 'N' word, because they know it's insulting especially to the people it's aimed at.

So I wonder why Maori find it acceptable (and what the consequences are) to continue to use the 'P' word when the so many of the people it's aimed at find it insulting.....

[trump-lady]

Making an effort with the pictures, best I can do to illustrate my worldview is these two photos...

One is Derwent Water the other, Kenepuru Sound...

Thank you
The beauty of this country crossed to all who live here I think :)
Thanks for sharing, may use these

[MisterD]

Thank you
The beauty of this country crossed to all who live here I think :)
Thanks for sharing, may use these

The point I was trying to get across is that pic 1 is in the English Lake District and pic 2 in the Marlborough sounds, yet it could quite easily be the other way around and you would struggle to find two more geographically separated locations.

[trump-lady]

The point I was trying to get across is that pic 1 is in the English Lake District and pic 2 in the Marlborough sounds, yet it could quite easily be the other way around and you would struggle to find two more geographically separated locations.

Ahhhh... ok I will def use that and I will maybe quote across it as I think it is a visual way of saying alot about... difference/sameness....

[Trudes]

I have always found the term "Pakeha" (sorry Spank) to be derogatory.

I remember an incident I had at high school a wee while ago. My social studies teacher asked the class if they knew what "Pakeha" ment, and the majority responded "White Pig", which was apparently the correct answer. When asked what the word "Maori' ment I responded "Black Pig" and got booted out of class.

I am not a racist and strongly believe in the "One People, One Country" ideology and my comment above was a piss-take, seriously.

I just HATE the word Pakeha. Why can't I be a New Zealander? Or a Kiwi? Why do I have to be labled with what I take as a derogatory term and it is considered OK?
If I were Maori I would hate being referred to as the N-word and other such names.

That's up to you, but I seriously think that your social studies teacher needs to get some more education!
OK, so I know Wikipedia isn't the most reliable source, it is however written by "The People". Afterall, that's what we are. Take a read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakeha
also:
http://maorinews.com/writings/papers/other/pakeha.htm

[peasea]

I think the first question is ...
What is a Pakeha?

I wouldn't have been so polite.

[peasea]

I have always found the term "Pakeha" (sorry Spank) to be derogatory.

I remember an incident I had at high school a wee while ago. My social studies teacher asked the class if they knew what "Pakeha" ment, and the majority responded "White Pig", which was apparently the correct answer. When asked what the word "Maori' ment I responded "Black Pig" and got booted out of class.

I am not a racist and strongly believe in the "One People, One Country" ideology and my comment above was a piss-take, seriously.

I just HATE the word Pakeha. Why can't I be a New Zealander? Or a Kiwi? Why do I have to be labled with what I take as a derogatory term and it is considered OK?
If I were Maori I would hate being referred to as the N-word and other such names.

It's reverse racism, I dislike the word also. Try calling a Maori a 'nigger' (or whatever) after he/she calls you a pakeha and you'll end up before the race relations boffins.

I am a New Zealander, my passport says so.

[Usarka]

In answer to the question about pics, here's mine:

[ManDownUnder]

Never had a problem with the word pakeha, in fact I identify with it. I see it to mean non-Maori... and I am

[jetboy]

That's up to you, but I seriously think that your social studies teacher needs to get some more education!
OK, so I know Wikipedia isn't the most reliable source, it is however written by "The People". Afterall, that's what we are. Take a read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakeha
also:
http://maorinews.com/writings/papers/other/pakeha.htm
Looked at both sites you mentioned and thanks for that :yes:

However, one could also write an article claiming that the word "Negro" is not a racist comment (as it's origins are not racist) but unfortunately people now use it as a derogatory term....same could apply to the "P" word if your references are factual.

[idb]

I honestly can't see the big deal.
We can be described in any number of ways, white, short, curly-headed, one-legged, New Zealander, over there, Ford owner, overweight, plumber, male etc.

To me, Pakeha means non-Maori New Zealander of Caucasian descent.
It's a description, not a label, and is uniquely New Zealand - why can't there even be some pride in that?

I too describe myself as New Zealander first, but I'm a Pakeha New Zealander.
I'm also a 45 year old New Zealander.
I'm also a New Zealand tradesman.
I'm also a New Zealand motorbicyclist.
I'm also a New Zealander of average height and weight...

It all depends on the situation how I describe myself.

[Usarka]

Couple more.

Are these my views, "pakeha;s", maori's or New Zealanders?

[sidecar bob]

I honestly can't see the big deal.
We can be described in any number of ways, white, short, curly-headed, one-legged, New Zealander, over there, Ford owner, overweight, plumber, male etc.

To me, Pakeha means non-Maori New Zealander of Caucasian descent.
It's a description, not a label, and is uniquely New Zealand - why can't there even be some pride in that?

I too describe myself as New Zealander first, but I'm a Pakeha New Zealander.
I'm also a 45 year old New Zealander.
I'm also a New Zealand tradesman.
I'm also a New Zealand motorbicyclist.
I'm also a New Zealander of average height and weight...

It all depends on the situation how I describe myself.

Im a sexy hot stud muffin, but that wont fit on an immigration form.

[Trudes]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/g4UeHWPeOrA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/g4UeHWPeOrA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[candor]

Pictures to demonstrate a groups world view (thought process and cultural approach) are a difficult assignment thinking on it. They say pictures say a thousand words but a lot of that is solely in the eye of the beholder (depends on cultural understanding).

Because of the common crossovers & interchanges its extra hard. Take Kiri Te Kanawa - could represent Western European cultural values of elite Opera snobbery (remember her Hayley Westenra comment) or could represent value of entertaining and performing from traditional Maori culture. Its a blend.
Its tempting to look for the differentiating points eg what would a "true blue" Maori do that Pakeha wouldn't and vice versa. Must also be for pakeha something other Europeans eg Poms, wouldn't have a go at, to be on track.

Could look at developmental over lifespan
A picture of a large rest home group having tea like in the ASB ad for pakeha butthis isn't exclusive to Kiwi Europeans.
A picture of an elder living with the offspring for Maori?
Maori kids learning to listen or use body language more more than speak on marae versus pakeha kids learning to speak more than listen eg encouraged to question in school ?

This assignment has to just show that there is wide variance, no recipe for pakehaness or maoriness really as theres just too many different influences now with mass communications. Too mny Makehas and Paoris.

[SPman]

Im finding it really hard to find short vid clips as you tube wont let you download
Cheers
I use vdownloader http://www.vdownloader.es/download.html and don't normally have much trouble with getting want I want.....

[Skyryder]

I have always found the term "Pakeha" (sorry Spank) to be derogatory.

I remember an incident I had at high school a wee while ago. My social studies teacher asked the class if they knew what "Pakeha" ment, and the majority responded "White Pig", which was apparently the correct answer. When asked what the word "Maori' ment I responded "Black Pig" and got booted out of class.

I am not a racist and strongly believe in the "One People, One Country" ideology and my comment above was a piss-take, seriously.

I just HATE the word Pakeha. Why can't I be a New Zealander? Or a Kiwi? Why do I have to be labled with what I take as a derogatory term and it is considered OK?
If I were Maori I would hate being referred to as the N-word and other such names.

With you on this one.

The 'unmentioned name' differs somewhat from iwi to iwi. As it now stands Europeans associate the 'unmentioned' name to that of a Caucasian of European descent. From this perspective the name has changed it's meaning from the original Maori. This was in reference to that of the 'smell' of a pig. bearing in mind that the first contact that maori had of Europeans were the sealers. You don't have to imagine very hard what these guys smelt like after months at sea where personal hygene did not exist. Pakeha is a reference to the smell of a pig or to one that acts as a pig; dirty and unclean.

Skyryder

[Big Dave]

<tenchars> </tenchars>

[smoky]

Duty
Honour
Justice
Solidarity
From each according to his means, to each according to his needs
Don't let a mate down
Do what y'need to do
Loyalty
Self sufficiency
Use it up, make it do
#8 wire
If you can't afford it, don't have it
Many hands make light work
Nobody respects a bludger
Nothing venture nothing gain


Generation Y wouldn't even grasp half of those concepts. :confused: Sadly mate they belong to a mythical past which we fondly recall.......

Or perhaps each generation, and different cutures, dress those values/concepts up in way you don't recognise.
As we become more stayed, ingrained in our own truth (own world view), we fail to recognise the same values and concepts in a modern younger generations culture (the culture gap?)

I think the majority of young people have a better sense of responsibility and behave themselves far better than when I was a teenager. They have to, as the repercussions are far worse now - unfortunately the few who don't behave have a higher degree of exposure with modern media

[smoky]

I have always found the term "Pakeha" to be derogatory.
I just HATE the word Pakeha. Why can't I be a New Zealander? Or a Kiwi? Why do I have to be labled with what I take as a derogatory term

Who's calling you Pakeha anyway? what's your issue? when was the last time you had to tick a box for Pakeha? It's not used.
Maori don't use the term very often at all - I hear Tau iwi or Tu iwi or Manuwhiri, more often, and it's far more descriptive of non Maori.
The Government use European or NZ or Caucasian to describe white people or non Maori
So WTF are you guys getting bent out of shape for???


I am not a racist and strongly believe in the "One People, One Country" ideology

As long as 'One people' is defined in terms that you find acceptable
and 'One country' is what? No doubt interpreted according to a colonialist view of things?

The whole idea of social workers and public servants developing a two world view (or more) is to open their eyes to the possibility that situation can be interpreted in more ways than 1.
Not to convince people to change their world view but to accept that we are not all the same.
To be an effective communicator, to be effective across cultural, generational divides - not to assimilate or change your view on things.

But it's not a surprise to see as people open themselves up to other ideas and views - you do change a bit

[scrivy]

Thats fine, but i strongly object to apparently only having a Maori word to describe my ethnicity.

Well here's a few white fellas word to describe you then.........

Soft,
Lazy,
unnecessary exertion,
slow,
munter funker,
Kickaha..........

(Got you in the mood for Sunday Bob?) :bleh:

[Ms Piggy]

Maybe something to do with the nuclear family ideal that most of us "whiteys" still envisage but seldom achieve; individualism ie. not collective ways of living; self-determination, the things we do are usually to benefit ourselves and our immediate families, not our extended family and future generations; farming and innovation, yes, that is a broad generalisation, but hey why not a picture of a Pakeha with his sheep and dogs and tractor or something.

Hey Trump Lady - I can't be arsed wading through all the comments to see if I'm repeating anything anyone has already said.

Your post really got me thinking (man it hurt!) and I think it used to be a lot more clear cut than it is now - like when NZ was 1st settled by Europeans it was very clear what the Pakeha worldview was as compared to the Maori worldview. I reckon wot Trudes has suggested is pretty much it.

Anyhoo, I've also found that (as Trudes says) Pakeha families (including mine) are generally more individualistic where as Maori and Pasifika (in broad terms) are more collective and generally don't think of "I" but "us/we" - there's a really good poem written by a Pasifika poet that says it all. Well that's my understanding anyway. For e.g. (might be getting slightly off topic) Tariana Turia didn't agree with the paramountcy principal of CYF (section 6 of the CYP&F Act 1989, i.e. that the welfare and interests of the child or young person are the first paramount consideration[borrowed that quote from someone else not my own tired brain!]) because a child is part of the collective and not viewed as an individual (was her view).

But then my understanding is that Europeans used to be very collective also pre-Industrial revolution (cripes that's going back in the archives of my 1st year sociology paper!). Aaaaaaaaannnnnd my Mum's generation (she's in her early 60's) had extended family living with them - their G/Dad and Great Uncle.

My theory and the way I work is that everyone has a story and even though categorising worldviews can be helpful it can sometimes be a hindrance so I (try to) find out from the people I meet what their story is and what is important to them and their family.

For the record I don't find the term Pakeha offensive but I'm a bit of a lefty liberal type.

Okay I'll shut up now cos I could blab on about this sorta shit all night!! I'd love to read your final essay. All the best!

[sidecar bob]

Well here's a few white fellas word to describe you then.........

Soft,
Lazy,
unnecessary exertion,
slow,
munter funker,
Kickaha..........

(Got you in the mood for Sunday Bob?) :bleh:

Ive heard you being described with a few kiwi words in the last week too pal, im sure you know what i mean :bleh:

[Headbanger]

Who's calling you Pakeha anyway? what's your issue? when was the last time you had to tick a box for Pakeha? It's not used.

The Government use European or NZ or Caucasian to describe white people or non Maori
So WTF are you guys getting bent out of shape for???


About a week ago on a Government form, I of course crossed it out and wrote in New Zealander.

Pakeha is an ugly word, It sounds ugly like most Maori words and is used by many in an ugly fashion.

[sidecar bob]

About a week ago on a Government form, I of course crossed it out and wrote in New Zealander.

Pakeha is an ugly word, It sounds ugly like most Maori words and is used by many in an ugly fashion.

I did exactly the same on the forms for my apprentice from the polytech.
So yeah, they do use it on forms still.

[smoky]

I did exactly the same on the forms for my apprentice from the polytech.
So yeah, they do use it on forms still.


About a week ago on a Government form, I of course crossed it out and wrote in New Zealander.

That’s very odd – the term Pakeha is neither a nationality nor a race, never has been. It is not recognised or used in any government statistics, funding or analysis – so it is highly unlikely it was used by any government agency or polytech? You must be mistaken, or tell them they are a bunch of dickheads. The collection of nationality or ethnicity statistics is regulated by legislation, there are clear guidelines.
I have been part of the recent review of the categorisation of information gathered and used by government departments and agencies, there is a standard that is used across health education and so on.
Ethnicity choices should only be;
European
NZ Maori
Pacific Island
Asian
Other
There are a few more ethnicities that you can use in specific cases like; Cook Islander, Tokelaun etc. But you have to show direct relevance to ask any more than the basic list.
And believe me – you will not find Pakeha on that list either (full list can be provided on request).

If you cross anything out and write New Zealander or Kiwi – you are automatically assigned to the ethnic status of ‘Other’. Kind of don’t agree with how it is, but that’s how it is

Ethnicity is not the same as Nationality – as in New Zealander, Indian, Chinese… but not Pakeha as it doesn’t reflect any particular nationality

[McJim]

Ethnicity is not the same as Nationality – as in New Zealander, Indian, Chinese… but not Pakeha as it doesn’t reflect any particular nationality

Back in Bradford a Pakeha is a comedian from Pakistan :rofl: or would that be a Pakehahahaha?

[Usarka]

Ethnicity choices should only be;
European
NZ Maori
Pacific Island
Asian
Other
Ethnicity is not the same as Nationality – as in New Zealander, Indian, Chinese… but not Pakeha as it doesn’t reflect any particular nationality

So as far as the goverment is concerned, a newly newly appointed citizen from Spain, Romania, or Slovakia would be in the same ethnic group as 7th generation New Zealander?

No wonder a lot of kiwis have contempt for this sort of stuff.

[Headbanger]

With you on this one.

The 'unmentioned name' differs somewhat from iwi to iwi. As it now stands Europeans associate the 'unmentioned' name to that of a Caucasian of European descent. From this perspective the name has changed it's meaning from the original Maori. This was in reference to that of the 'smell' of a pig. bearing in mind that the first contact that maori had of Europeans were the sealers. You don't have to imagine very hard what these guys smelt like after months at sea where personal hygene did not exist. Pakeha is a reference to the smell of a pig or to one that acts as a pig; dirty and unclean.

Skyryder


1.The Maori would have stunk just as bad as any sealer
2.Do you have a reference for that definition?

[smoky]

So as far as the goverment is concerned, a newly newly appointed citizen from Spain, Romania, or Slovakia would be in the same ethnic group as 7th generation New Zealander?

No wonder a lot of kiwis have contempt for this sort of stuff.

Actually it's worse than that;
because it's based on ethnicity not nationality or citizenship, what would you tick if you were Dutch, or German or whatever?
European of course, same as American or SA or Australian - or you could opt for 'Other'

So basically the system doesn't care about our ethnicity other than the fact we are not NZ Maori, Pacific Islander or Asian????
I wonder why

[Whynot]

Actually it's worse than that;
because it's based on ethnicity not nationality or citizenship, what would you tick if you were Dutch, or German or whatever?
European of course, same as American or SA or Australian - or you could opt for 'Other'

So basically the system doesn't care about our ethnicity other than the fact we are not NZ Maori, Pacific Islander or Asian????
I wonder why

What if you were born in Germany (for example) but were ethnically Asian?
which box would you tick?

[smoky]

What if you were born in Germany (for example) but were ethnically Asian?
which box would you tick?

Hmmmm - ethnicity would be Asian!!!

[Big Dave]

What if you were born in Germany (for example) but were ethnically Asian?



Japanese and you might have an Axis to grind.

[McJim]

I think the main thrust of the whole thread is specifically that the P word refers to people who are not of the same culture as Maori.

If we then take the same question from my cultural point of view and we refer to people who are not of Scottish descent as Sassenach then could we please have THE sasseneach world view?

Bear in mind that the word Sassenach means not Scottish and therefore I want ONE world view that inclusively reflects at least the following cultures and others:
Japanese, American, Samoan, Argentinian, Italian, German, Zimbabwean, Russian, Latvian, Swedish, Portugese, Maltese, Libyan, Israeli, Kyrgyzstani, Napalese, Chinese, Mongolian, Iranian, Kuwaiti, Egyptian, Ethiopian, Chinese, Thai, Taiwanese, Brazilian, Chilean, Mexican, Paraguayan, Cook Island, Australian, Danish, Maori, Dutch, Canadian, Cameroonian, Kenyan, Tanxanian, Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan and Hawaian.

Go on - one World View to encompass that - If you are Maori then you MUST be sassenach by the definiton given here but I think such an exercise in impossible. At least as impossible as the question you have set us.

Despite our pale skin we all have substantially different world views as individuals.

Here is one aspect of MY world view.

I am white, male and heterosexual. I therefore have no community. Gays have a Gay community. Asians have the Asian Community. Maori have the Maori Community. Indians have the Indian Community. Lesbians have the Lesbian community. But if white heterosexual males stand together we get called neo nazis.

This means that as soon as we are born, while we are still babes in arms we are hated. As soon as I was born I was held responsible for the oppression of African Americans, I was responsible for every battered woman, I was responsible for the invasion of every land by the British Empire....I can go on but I hope you understand the World View that has been thrust upon me just because of the colour of my skin.

It can make us wiggers pretty bitter.

[davebullet]

I think when you identify any group by a particular attribute, whether racial origin / ethnicity, eye colour or hair length, the worldview becomes constrained by that one attribute - regardless of where the people that meet that group's critiera are located in the world.

For example... A pakeha world view might be "wish we could all just get along in this country and forget the racial past. Sure there were some wrongs, but paying endless money to other groups doesn't make those wrongs right". The Pakehas could then empathise with other like groups (colour independent here) across the world where the same thing is going on. If you don't know about other cultures, then your worldview is constrained to your perspective of what has happened in your own country, which means it isn't really a world view afterall. I fall into this latter category, like I believe most NZers would.

My point is, a worldview is constrained by the common attribute, and is largely irrelevant since most people will have strongest opinions about their own country, not others.

[Trudes]

So as far as the goverment is concerned, a newly newly appointed citizen from Spain, Romania, or Slovakia would be in the same ethnic group as 7th generation New Zealander?


Hence the name Pakeha, it is the name given to the white coloniser, so techniquely if you were born in NZ and are of European decent, yes you would be "lumped" in as a Pakeha. If you're fresh off the plane from wherever, then you would be whatever ethnicity you are (or what nationality is on your passport as far as the authorities are concerned).
In that way Pakeha denotes the other people who are Treaty of Waitangi partners who are not Maori and are represented by the Crown. It makes Pakeha partners with Maori, tangata whenua and gives us a standing in NZ, some rights as the Treaty partner.
As I said, I look at it as a way of belonging here, my ancestors were party to the Treaty (well, mine didn't but what the hell, I still get blamed for all the injustices of the past just like every other Whitey) so I'm claiming my place in NZ.

[sidecar bob]

That’s very odd – the term Pakeha is neither a nationality nor a race, never has been. It is not recognised or used in any government statistics, funding or analysis – so it is highly unlikely it was used by any government agency or polytech? You must be mistaken, or tell them they are a bunch of dickheads.

I can assure you i was not mistaken, it was only about a week or so ago.
I would be happy to source the form & somehow post a copy of it on here.
It is also used on the ACC 45 injury/accident report form too.
The nationality on my passport states my ethnicity as "New Zealand" which was a country last time i checked, not an ethnicity.
I am of Dutch parentage, but being born here & having no interest or connections in the Netherlands i am about as Dutch as Mc Jim & therefore dont think of myself as such, therefore i am not.

[Pwalo]

Here is one aspect of MY world view.

I am white, male and heterosexual. I therefore have no community. Gays have a Gay community. Asians have the Asian Community. Maori have the Maori Community. Indians have the Indian Community. Lesbians have the Lesbian community. But if white heterosexual males stand together we get called neo nazis.

This means that as soon as we are born, while we are still babes in arms we are hated. As soon as I was born I was held responsible for the oppression of African Americans, I was responsible for every battered woman, I was responsible for the invasion of every land by the British Empire....I can go on but I hope you understand the World View that has been thrust upon me just because of the colour of my skin.

It can make us wiggers pretty bitter.

Yep, and it's even worse if you're a middle class, white, heterosexual male. I never realised that I was so smegging dangerous.

I still stand by by my original statement. Trump Lady, you know what your lecturer/marker wants, so just let her have it. What you, or I, or anyone else thinks, isn't going to change the way that she will bemarking your paper.

[PeeJay]

I can assure you i was not mistaken, it was only about a week or so ago.
I would be happy to source the form & somehow post a copy of it on here.
It was on an ACC form to at some point too.
The nationality on my passport states my ethnicity as "New Zealand" which was a country last time i checked, not an ethnicity.
I am of Dutch parentage, but being born here & having no interest or connections in the Netherlands i am about as Dutch as Mc Jim & therefore dont think of myself as such, therefore i am not.
My NZ passport only has Nationality, no mention of ethnicity.
A quick look at the application form and again no mention of ethnicity
Do you have some other countries passport where ethnicity is important to the govt?

[sidecar bob]

My NZ passport only has Nationality, no mention of ethnicity.
A quick look at the application form and again no mention of ethnicity
Do you have some other countries passport where ethnicity is important to the govt?

Ahh, true, it does say nationality, my badd. Maybe it should say "New Zealander" rather than New Zealand though.

[jetboy]

Who's calling you Pakeha anyway? what's your issue? when was the last time you had to tick a box for Pakeha? It's not used. The Government use European or NZ or Caucasian to describe white people or non Maori
So WTF are you guys getting bent out of shape for???

Just about every bit of paperwork that comes from the Government has the word Pakeha on it, which I cross out and replace with New Zealander. I am getting "bent out of shape" because I find the term derogatory. Relate to the word "Negro" which is a term referring to people of Black ancestory....Pakeha, according to some here, means people of non-Maori decent, or white.
Negro is now considered an ethnic slur, yet Pakeha is considered acceptable even though alot of New Zealanders I know find it an ethnic slur too?




As long as 'One people' is defined in terms that you find acceptable
and 'One country' is what? No doubt interpreted according to a colonialist view of things?

I refer to 'One People' as a term where ALL New Zealanders are treated equal with the same rule applying to everyone, which is certainly not the case now. Whether this be a 'colonialists' view or not it doesn't matter - Europeans conquored NZ way before anyone-alive-today's grandparents were even a twinkle in their parents' eyes. What I am in favour of is that there is one legal system, one education system, one electorate system for all New Zealanders...why should there be more than one, I don't get it?!


**Disclaimer**
These posts are written in my personal capacity and are my own.

[Headbanger]

This is going to be a right bastard when it comes to Ethnic cleansing.

Be interesting to see how this separatist bullshit holds up in another 100 years when the blood lines are indistinguishable.

Who the hell are they going to blame then?

[smoky]

As soon as I was born I was held responsible for the oppression of African Americans, I was responsible for every battered woman, I was responsible for the invasion of every land by the British Empire.....

Bloody hell - I knew it was all your fault, you bastard you

[Trudes]

Hey Trump-lady, have you read "Being Pakeha" or "Being Pakeha Now" both by Michael King? Wonder if either of those would help you any?
Infact, those and Michael King's "The Penguin History of New Zealand" are good books to get a pretty good history of New Zealand, probably a bit different to what our teachers in primary school taught us (and yes, Michael King was a Whitey) and not entirely one sided like a lot of other NZ history books I've read, so fairly easy reading. If anyone is actually interested in opening their minds a little.

[smoky]

Just about every bit of paperwork that comes from the Government has the word Pakeha on it, which I cross out and replace with New Zealander.
It is simply not used when collecting nationality or ethnicity statistics, unless they are operating outside of current legislative requirements - which I doubt they are (see my earlier post on that subject if you can be bothered - you obviously skipped it)


I refer to 'One People' as a term where ALL New Zealanders are treated equal with the same rule applying to everyone, which is certainly not the case now. Whether this be a 'colonialists' view or not it doesn't matter....What I am in favour of is that there is one legal system, one education system, one electorate system for all New Zealanders...why should there be more than one, I don't get it?!

Problem is - I doubt we could find one system that suites all of us. In my view the normal European/British rule or system is classist, racist and inflexible of minority groups. But I'm yet to find a better one.
But I think the discussion is more about recognising that we are not 'one people' we are many people, rather than let that make you feel uncomfortable we should embrace diversity, celebrate our differing strengths



Europeans conquored NZ
When was that?
You should really read a bit of history on NZ

[James Deuce]

Hey Trump-lady, have you read "Being Pakeha" or "Being Pakeha Now" both by Michael King? Wonder if either of those would help you any?
Infact, those and Michael King's "The Penguin History of New Zealand" are good books to get a pretty good history of New Zealand, probably a bit different to what our teachers in primary school taught us (and yes, Michael King was a Whitey) and not entirely one sided like a lot of other NZ history books I've read, so fairly easy reading. If anyone is actually interested in opening their minds a little.

Anything by James Belich will fulfil that role as well.

[terbang]

For what its worth, my parents are Scots and I was born in New Zealand along with my adopted brother who is Maori. He was about 10 inches long when mum and dad brought him home. I was about 18 months old then. We had a close and identical upbringing and we were, and still are brothers and good mates. Right from an early age his behavior and personal characteristics were quite different to mine. I guess you could say that he has always been typically Maori or Polynesian in his ways. Though he never really associated himself with Maori and still doesn't. Sure the Scot influence is certainly there and he has done his best to uphold our family values, however he is of the Polynesian breed. That is the difference.

[jetboy]

Problem is - I doubt we could find one system that suites all of us. In my view the normal European/British rule or system is classist, racist and inflexible of minority groups. But I'm yet to find a better one.
But I think the discussion is more about recognising that we are not 'one people' we are many people, rather than let that make you feel uncomfortable we should embrace diversity, celebrate our differing strengths


Of course we couldn't find a system that suits all of us - that is wishful thinking. But why, then, are there seperate systems for different groups? Why can I not vote on the Maori electorate roll, for example? Why is there a seperate elecotral roll? I ask these questions because I don't understand and don't know the answer!

Anyways, my original point has been lost a bit - I just don't like being called a Pakeha. :done:

[Finn]

He was about 10 inches long when mum and dad brought him home.

That's undersized for a Maori. Your parents should have released him back.

[James Deuce]

Of course we couldn't find a system that suits all of us - that is wishful thinking. But why, then, are there seperate systems for different groups? Why can I not vote on the Maori electorate roll, for example? Why is there a seperate elecotral roll? I ask these questions because I don't understand and don't know the answer!

You need to do some reading then. Michael King's History of New Zealand is a good read and will tell you all you need to know. There's a huge lack of understanding on both sides of the equation coupled with belligerent counter views that want to bulldoze their own Gestalt through at the expense of a mature National identity. Both sides need to grow up, both sides need to open their minds, both sides need to grasp the concept of of change and ultimately deal with it.

[terbang]

That's undersized for a Maori. Your parents should have released him back.

Of course his size would mean something to you. Sorry to burst ya bubble there mate, but you don't see too many Maori bantam roosters and he grew up to be a tall man.

[smoky]

Of course we couldn't find a system that suits all of us - that is wishful thinking. But why, then, are there seperate systems for different groups? Why can I not vote on the Maori electorate roll, for example? Why is there a seperate elecotral roll? I ask these questions because I don't understand and don't know the answer!

First point - I think we are finding one that will come close to suiting us all; as we make changes to our current system it is becoming more and more inclusive of other ideals, MMP and other constitutional changes are morphing our system into a hybrid of it's original. I think NZ has the best system in the world presently.
As for the Maori Electoral role - it isn't exclusive, you can opt for either one.
Of course the idea is that you are of Maori descent.
I am unaware of any other 'separate systems for different groups' that you seem to think exist? There is a lot of paranoid myth amongst the angst ill-informed.
I would like to see the reintroduction of a second house - a Maori house, then do away with the Maori electoral role - any law/legislation/act could be introduced by either house but would need to be passed in both to come into effect.
The right to govern in partnership with Maori - as per the treaty!




Anyways, my original point has been lost a bit - I just don't like being called a Pakeha. :done:

My original answer; whose calling you Pakeha?
So we're all good then - you don't like it, no ones using it (anymore)

[sidecar bob]

My original answer; whose calling you Pakeha?
So we're all good then - you don't like it, no ones using it (anymore)

The Gubbimint is ow.

[James Deuce]

The Gubbimint is ow. That's "Au".

[jetboy]

You need to do some reading then. Michael King's History of New Zealand is a good read and will tell you all you need to know. There's a huge lack of understanding on both sides of the equation coupled with belligerent counter views that want to bulldoze their own Gestalt through at the expense of a mature National identity. Both sides need to grow up, both sides need to open their minds, both sides need to grasp the concept of of change and ultimately deal with it.
Thanks for the info - will source this book at the library next time I am there and read up!

[Skyryder]

1.The Maori would have stunk just as bad as any sealer
2.Do you have a reference for that definition?

Maori were relitively clean as against an unwashed sailor.


Nope but many years back when I worked and socialised (Sunday rugby etc)with maori this is what I was told. There have been other occasions when this description has been confirmed.

I think you would find it nigh on impossible to confirm this due to the now general acceptance of the word. Many kiwi's do not find the word objectionable that's their choice..........just not mine.

There are other interpetations of the word's meaning but they all have to do with pigs.


Skyryder

[scumdog]

There are other interpetations of the word's meaning but they all have to do with pigs.


Skyryder

Then I'm doubly offended..:D

[smoky]

I think you would find it nigh on impossible to confirm this ..

There are other interpetations of the word's meaning but they all have to do with pigs.


From what I understand; no one really knows where it came from.
One explination offered by missonaries in the late 1800's was that early settlers used the expresion 'bugger ya' a lot - an Maori adopted it as 'pakeha'

Another line of thought was if you look at the break down of the word in Te Reo it could mean; Pah Keha - Pah being the village and Keha being a small insect like a flea - which was believed to have come to NZ via animals from settlers?

But who knows

[smoky]

The Gubbimint is ow.

In this we'll have to disagree
It is never used to describe ethnicity or nationality
Perhaps you are as mistaken as you were with your passport

[sidecar bob]

In this we'll have to disagree
It is never used to describe ethnicity or nationality
Perhaps you are as mistaken as you were with your passport

Ahh, no au, go and find yourself an ACC45 form, if you cant i will.

[Skyryder]

From what I understand; no one really knows where it came from.
One explination offered by missonaries in the late 1800's was that early settlers used the expresion 'bugger ya' a lot - an Maori adopted it as 'pakeha'

Another line of thought was if you look at the break down of the word in Te Reo it could mean; Pah Keha - Pah being the village and Keha being a small insect like a flea - which was believed to have come to NZ via animals from settlers?

But who knows


http://maorinews.com/writings/papers/other/pakeha.htm

As good a link as any.

Skyryder

[Oscar]

Maori were relitively clean as against an unwashed sailor.


Nope but many years back when I worked and socialised (Sunday rugby etc)with maori this is what I was told. There have been other occasions when this description has been confirmed.

I think you would find it nigh on impossible to confirm this due to the now general acceptance of the word. Many kiwi's do not find the word objectionable that's their choice..........just not mine.

There are other interpetations of the word's meaning but they all have to do with pigs.


Skyryder

There are plenty of theories on origin of the word, but general agreement on what the word means now. If it has no proven direct translation, and it is general usage, I don't see the problem - if it isn't a Maori word, it seems reasonable to accept it as an early example of NZ English dialect.

There are plenty of English words in common use that have dodgy provenance and people don't get excited about those - this seems to be an instance where people are looking for a reason to be offended.

[Oscar]

Problem is - I doubt we could find one system that suites all of us. In my view the normal European/British rule or system is classist, racist and inflexible of minority groups. But I'm yet to find a better one.


Jeez, that's a big call.
Have you been to Britain lately?
It's more culturally diverse and probably more accepting of those cultures than NZ.

[Big Dave]

Posting this Extract from 'The Confusing Country' By Douglas Adams because I relate to the 'stopped being Europeans'.

If It was applicable Pakeha would grate accordingly.

---------------

The last confusing thing about Australia is the inhabitants. First, a short history: Some time around 40,000 years ago, some people arrived in boats from the north. They ate all the available food, and lot of them died. The ones that survived learned respect for the balance of nature, man’s proper place in the scheme of things, and spiders. They settled in, and spent a lot of the intervening time making up strange stories.

Then, around 200 years ago, Europeans arrived in boats from the north. More accurately, European convicts were sent, with a few deranged and stupid people in charge. They tried to plant their crops in Autumn (failing to take account of the reversal of the seasons when moving from the top half of the planet to the bottom), ate all their food, and a lot of them died.

About then the sheep arrived, and have been treasured ever since. It is interesting to note here that the Europeans always consider themselves vastly superior to any other race they encounter, since they can lie, cheat, steal, and litigate (marks of a civilised culture they say) - whereas all the Aboriginals can do is happily survive being left in the middle of a vast red-hot desert, equipped with a stick.

Eventually, the new lot of people stopped being Europeans on Extended Holiday and became Australians. The changes are subtle, but deep, caused by the mind-stretching expanses of nothingness and eerie quiet, where a person can sit perfectly still and look deep inside themselves to the core of their essence, their reasons for being, and the necessity of checking inside your boots every morning for fatal surprises. They also picked up the most finely tuned sense of irony in the world, and the Aboriginal gift for making up stories. Be warned.

------------

[Skyryder]

There are plenty of theories on origin of the word, but general agreement on what the word means now. If it has no proven direct translation, and it is general usage, I don't see the problem - if it isn't a Maori word, it seems reasonable to accept it as an early example of NZ English dialect.

There are plenty of English words in common use that have dodgy provenance and people don't get excited about those - this seems to be an instance where people are looking for a reason to be offended.



True but you call a Maori a 'pakeha' and you watch the reaction.


Skyryder

[smoky]

Ahh, no au, go and find yourself an ACC45 form, if you cant i will.

Well if it is they must only ever use it with the word 'European' - as some people who are like me, are white but don't identify with European, can feel a bit better about ticking the box.
But it's only ever used with European on the forms - am I right?
And when the figures are used it will only be counted as European

[smoky]

Jeez, that's a big call.
Have you been to Britain lately?
It's more culturally diverse and probably more accepting of those cultures than NZ.

Sure did - lived there for a few years
While it is more culturally diverse (spot the Anglo Saxon) I wouldn't say the general public are more or less accepting of those cultures than here

[Blatman]

My brother and I want to conduct an experiment with mum's 10 year-old tabby cat. She's about 10 kilos. Which should we feed her first? The Diet Coke or the Mentos?

[Oscar]

True but you call a Maori a 'pakeha' and you watch the reaction.


Skyryder

Why would I?

The accepted meaning I referred to doesn't include Maori.

[Dave Lobster]

My brother and I want to conduct an experiment with mum's 10 year-old tabby cat. She's about 10 kilos. Which should we feed her first? The Diet Coke or the Mentos?

Why not try KFC and Lion Red?

[Big Dave]

Ich bin ein New Zealander, Bro.