Buying from a dealer?

[Aaron_newrider]

Hey guys,

I haven't posted much at all on here, but will definately start to do so more and more once I start to meet people from KB.

I am buying my bike on the 15th-20th of this month, getting some gear (Q-Moto) but wondered what the deal is with puchasing a bike from a dealer.

Here is a question for everyone, if a bike has a $6,000sticker on it, what would you try to get that down to? Paying cash (literally)

Maybe someone knows how much margin they usually put on it?

Also, from a dealer, second hand motorbike 2008, what warranty period would you expect and how much does the CGA protect me (without getting stupid :Oi:)

Cheers :niceone:

Aaron

[Headbanger]

I'd strart at $4500, But I'd go all thr way up to the sticker price if it were a fair value and within my budget.

[Robert Taylor]

I'd strart at $4500, But I'd go all thr way up to the sticker price if it were a fair value and within my budget.

Heck if a dealer had $1500 margin or even $1000 margin in a $6000 bike hed be doing well. Given the abysmal margins that dealers get, prep costs, overheads, poor returns for warranty work etc etc etc being a motorcycle dealer is not a way to become wealthy, with very few exceptions.

[Headbanger]

Heck if a dealer had $1500 margin or even $1000 margin in a $6000 bike hed be doing well. Given the abysmal margins that dealers get, prep costs, overheads, poor returns for warranty work etc etc etc being a motorcycle dealer is not a way to become wealthy, with very few exceptions.

Most small business owners don't get wealthy, Bike shop owners are not special in that regard.

And that's no reason not to start with a low ball offer.

[quickbuck]

Agree with Robert Here.
$1500 margin...only if the dealer got himself a bargain in the first place!
Then, that will be the bike he will be wanting to make a bit off anyway.
As they are actually running a business and not selling bikes for kicks, then it would be too cheeky to get it for that cheap.

I would go with 10% discount for cash.
Can't speak for all, but many are really happy if you don NOT have a Tade in. Last thing they actually need at the moment is another bike to try and sell.
So, yeah, I would say go in with $5500.... Or pay full price, and get them to through in some gear, or consumables... or some arrangement in between. Eg, $5800 cash, and a 4 litre oil, filter, air filter, and chainlube... You will eventually need these.
Or you could ask for free servicings.

Get the idea?

Good luck, and happy motorcycling.

[Aaron_newrider]

Thanks for the input guys, can't wait to get it. Just waiting for my loan to be approved/payday monthly. Keep the comments/opinions comming.

[Creeping Death]

As a cash buyer,the barganing power is with YOU,not them.

I'd actually start lower,at perhaps $4,200.Tell em you've seen a bike the same on Trademe,only thing holding you back is it's in another town or something.

Never go up to the sticker price!Dealers are in the business to make money,your business is to try and save money.Who really cares what his margins are?

I'd go as high as $5,400,and expect discounts on the next set of tyres,servicing etc (coz I'm a tight bastard like that).

I guess in the end,it's your moolah!

Good Luck!:yes:

[jafar]

Go in LOW, you can always negotiate up but you can't go down!!

Work on your "total package", the dealer might not want to sell you the bike particularly cheap but may do you a deal on accessories or other things he sells if you buy ALL from him. So work out what you want & who is going to do the best all round deal. Don't be afraid to walk out if they don't want to play, there are plenty that will
It is near the end of the 'season' & all the dealers want to move stock & no trade deals are cream.
The old saying of cash talks & bullshit walks seems appropriate here.:laugh:

[The Pastor]

the mark up on gear is huge so keep that in mind.

if its a 250 and they are asking 6k for it, you can bet they paid around 4k maybe less.

[naphazoline]

You just have to look at the difference between private sales,and dealerships prices.

You can't tell me the dealers aren't making any money?

[Metalor]

Hmmm.. .my first bike (which I still ride every day, despite crashing the fuck out of it) had a price tag of $2900 and the gave it to me for $2400 WITH a helmet of up to $150 value. The bike was worth over 3 grand at the time, so it HAD to have been a trade in they wanted to sell off.

Either that or I'm just faaaaar too good looking.

[R1madness]

sure we make a couple o dollars on a bike but we provide a great service. Have you seen some of the crap that people try to sell as a good bike these days. New riders or people without mechanical skills should steer clear of half the stuff offered privately (trade me, buysellexchange, the paper, the pub) unless they can get it for a bargin and are prepared to put the money they saved buying the bike into fixing it.
I am not saying that there are no genuine bargins out there, there are, just check them out properly.
What to offer well its up to you but i dont know a single dealer that could knock $500 off a $6k bike and still expect to be in business in the future.
make a lowball offer but dont be offended if he just shrugs and walks away.
Oh yea saying i saw one on trade me doesnt work. Most of us have broadband and a pc hooked up to trademe for just this reason.....
If you want the best deal possable go in with 50% deposit, no trade in, and ask for finance. Now thats a deal winner.

[dipshit]

You just have to look at the difference between private sales,and dealerships prices.

You can't tell me the dealers aren't making any money?

Part of the extra costs though from a dealer is at least covering you with some kind of guarantee should the bike launch itself a few weeks later.

If you spend $7000 on tardeme and the engine blows up the following week... you are out of luck.

Paying a bit more from a dealer covers your ass from such a thing happening.

Personally i wouldn't drop a large amount of coin in a private motor vehicle sale unless i thoroughly knew about the vehicle's history... like from someone i already knew.

[naphazoline]

Part of the extra costs though from a dealer is at least covering you with some kind of guarantee should the bike launch itself a few weeks later.

If you spend $7000 on tardeme and the engine blows up the following week... you are out of luck.

Paying a bit more from a dealer covers your ass from such a thing happening.

I understand that,but there are ways of cutting down your chances of this happening in a private sale.

I spent 12.5k on a private deal,that would have otherwise cost me up to 5k more at a dealership,and i've had a dream run.

P.S.
That was on tardme.

[dipshit]

I spent 12.5k on a private deal,that would have otherwise cost me up to 5k more at a dealership,and i've had a dream run.


Yeah i suppose you can't go too far wrong with say a tidy 12 month old bike with only 4500ks on it or thereabouts.

[3umph]

sure we make a couple o dollars on a bike but we provide a great service. Have you seen some of the crap that people try to sell as a good bike these days. New riders or people without mechanical skills should steer clear of half the stuff offered privately (trade me, buysellexchange, the paper, the pub) unless they can get it for a bargin and are prepared to put the money they saved buying the bike into fixing it.
I am not saying that there are no genuine bargins out there, there are, just check them out properly.
What to offer well its up to you but i dont know a single dealer that could knock $500 off a $6k bike and still expect to be in business in the future.
make a lowball offer but dont be offended if he just shrugs and walks away.
Oh yea saying i saw one on trade me doesnt work. Most of us have broadband and a pc hooked up to trademe for just this reason.....
If you want the best deal possable go in with 50% deposit, no trade in, and ask for finance. Now thats a deal winner.

Quite agree with you there Ian...

Sure you can pick up some good deals on trademe but if you don't know what you are looking at there are some really good looking lemons as well...
Most dealers also will help you out a lot with problems or questions... many will give you discounts for other gear or servicing purchased through them as well...
also buying from a dealer you are guaranteed clear title with no financial interests on the bike... private you HAVE to check this out or you can face loosing your bike if they do not pay there loan up...
trust me this can and does happen, we lost my wifes CBR to the repo man due to the person not repaying the loan out when he sold the bike to the person we brought brought it off... hence 2 owners prior...
Luckily with a bit of pressure from the bike shop and myself the loan was repayed and we got the bike back after 1.5 weeks... if he did not pay we would of lost the bike no questions asked and out of pocket for what we spent on the bike...

Don't get set on just one bike... look around you may find others around the same price range... ask each shop what they can do for cash... in discount, extras, ongoing servicing etc and then way up what to do....

[MarkH]

Yeah i suppose you can't go too far wrong with say a tidy 12 month old bike with only 4500ks on it or thereabouts.

Even if it's not tidy and has a lot more kms on the clock, you might want to consider that if you can save $5K then you would have to have some expensive problems before it would have been cheaper to buy from a dealer.

Personally I would check out similar bikes to what the dealer was selling, if there were machines on tardme that were way cheaper then I would either get a good reduction in price off the dealer or go to a private sale on tardme. If I am saving enough I will happily take the risk with a private sale!

[3umph]

Part of the extra costs though from a dealer is at least covering you with some kind of guarantee should the bike launch itself a few weeks later.

If you spend $7000 on tardeme and the engine blows up the following week... you are out of luck.

Paying a bit more from a dealer covers your ass from such a thing happening.

Personally i wouldn't drop a large amount of coin in a private motor vehicle sale unless i thoroughly knew about the vehicle's history... like from someone i already knew.


yip totally agree:2thumbsup

[3umph]

maybe the poll should be re worded to...

With a sticker price of $6,000 from a dealer and paying cash, how much would you first offer when trying to negotiate a cash price

[McDuck]

I would start with an offer of 5500, but with my local (havnt got a bke off them yet but have gotten just about eveyrthing else) i just go in, ask 'what can ya do me on ths...' and get a discount.

Why? dont push them down further, am honest (even when they messed up in my favor) and i go back because i get a good discount wthout needing to push them down.


I would rather have a dealer that is happy enough to pck my sorry arse up of the sde of the road should the time come than have a few extra dollers to pay a towie, because a lot of towies are cunts and the local dealers ar ea bunch of good guys.

[Aaron_newrider]

yip totally agree:2thumbsup

What sort of warranty should I expect on a 2008 used bike? I'm the only rider out of my mates, except for my sales manager in CHCH and one of my customers.


Cheers

Aaron

[Radar]

Aaron, if you want the lowest price on a bike (or car), find another one that you genuinely want to buy at another dealer - even if it is in a different city (find it online). Let the sales person know that you want to make a decision between the two bikes within the next day or two, get their name and tell them you will ring them at 'whenever time'. Do your negotiating over the phone - not in person - and ring both shops and see what their best price will be. Let them know which bike and shop (or at least the city where the shop is) they are competing with. Remember, it has to be genuine - sales people have heard all the whining many times from buyers trying to get a reduced price and if they are experienced they will know how to counter your whining - especially when face to face.

I read about this method of negotiating years ago in a consumers magazine article (for buying cars). I have done this when buying a car and a bike, and it works, although you may have to settle for the addition of options or a reduction of service costs, rather than a big reduction in price.

A friend was on a bike tour and stopped in a bike shop, saw a bike he liked, went home and rang the shop and made a low offer. They did not accept the offer but he gave them his phone number and said to ring him back if they changed their mind. Two weeks later they rang and he got the bike at his price.

Another friend found a car in our town but they would not drop the price. I gave him the info as in the first paragraph above. He went online and found the same car in Auckland (although it had fewer km's and was a year newer). He then rang the local dealer, then AKL, etc. back and forth and after the local dealer would not budge he got the AKL car - and the AKL dealer paid for shipping it to Masterton and at a big savings compared to the local dealer. BTW, they shipped it to the local shop so the sales person should have been pissed off knowing they lost that sale. :bleh:

Now I could be wrong but something tells me, Aaron, that you really want that bike and actually have the cash to pay full price. And I reckon the sales person 'knows' and 'feels' that you will pay full price and that you will not go elsewhere. Apologies if I am wrong but I'd say the shop will only give you the usual 10% discount on extras and maybe drop the price a couple of hundred dollars if you are prickly.

[Radar]

What sort of warranty should I expect on a 2008 used bike? I'm the only rider out of my mates, except for my sales manager in CHCH and one of my customers.


Cheers

Aaron

A very good question. Maybe the new warranty will still be in affect (2 years is usual). If they only give you 3 months, this is something you could negotiate if they will not drop the price much.

[Aaron_newrider]

Aaron, if you want the lowest price on a bike (or car), find another one that you genuinely want to buy at another dealer - even if it is in a different city (find it online). Let the sales person know that you want to make a decision between the two bikes within the next day or two, get their name and tell them you will ring them at 'whenever time'. Do your negotiating over the phone - not in person - and ring both shops and see what their best price will be. Let them know which bike and shop (or at least the city where the shop is) they are competing with. Remember, it has to be genuine - sales people have heard all the whining many times from buyers trying to get a reduced price and if they are experienced they will know how to counter your whining - especially when face to face.

I read about this method of negotiating years ago in a consumers magazine article (for buying cars). I have done this when buying a car and a bike, and it works, although you may have to settle for the addition of options or a reduction of service costs, rather than a big reduction in price.

A friend was on a bike tour and stopped in a bike shop, saw a bike he liked, went home and rang the shop and made a low offer. They did not accept the offer but he gave them his phone number and said to ring him back if they changed their mind. Two weeks later they rang and he got the bike at his price.

Another friend found a car in our town but they would not drop the price. I gave him the info as in the first paragraph above. He went online and found the same car in Auckland (although it had fewer km's and was a year newer). He then rang the local dealer, then AKL, etc. back and forth and after the local dealer would not budge he got the AKL car - and the AKL dealer paid for shipping it to Masterton and at a big savings compared to the local dealer. BTW, they shipped it to the local shop so the sales person should have been pissed off knowing they lost that sale. :bleh:

Now I could be wrong but something tells me, Aaron, that you really want that bike and actually have the cash to pay full price. And I reckon the sales person 'knows' and 'feels' that you will pay full price and that you will not go elsewhere. Apologies if I am wrong but I'd say the shop will only give you the usual 10% discount on extras and maybe drop the price a couple of hundred dollars if you are prickly.


Hey Mate, cheers for taking the time to write that

Nah I don't have the cash to pay for it, I'm only 20, scraping the bottom of the barrel to get enough money for protective gear which I am very reluctant to go cheap on (I enjoy the ability to walk/eat/type/screw and live) I am getting a loan for 95% of the bike, and have saved alittle for the gear. I have't been 100% specific regarding the price as I don't want to identify the bike to be honest. It's alittle above/below the $6000 mark, just wanted to see peoples reactions.. It's a Hyosung GT250R which there are alot of, but I want to go through a dealer so I have piece of mind as I can check out a car very well but not a bike as I have no experience so if it dies 1 month down the track I have something to fall back on.

No going to walk in there and be an arsehole, but i'm a sales person so making deals comes quote natually. I'll go in with a good attitude and see what happens. Can't wait,

One more question, yes I see that the Hyosungs are being sold with a 2-year warranty.

1) How would I claim on this, eg. would i need the origional invoice for the origional purchase

2) is this transferable?

3) What services need to be done to be able to make a claim

4) What does this cover?

Thanks again for your time all to comment, really is appreciated and I look forward to meeting some of you at rides.

Aaron


Cheers
Aaron

[MarkH]

Nah I don't have the cash to pay for it, I'm only 20, scraping the bottom of the barrel to get enough money for protective gear which I am very reluctant to go cheap on (I enjoy the ability to walk/eat/type/screw and live) I am getting a loan for 95% of the bike, and have saved alittle for the gear. I have't been 100% specific regarding the price as I don't want to identify the bike to be honest. It's alittle above/below the $6000 mark, just wanted to see peoples reactions.. It's a Hyosung GT250R which there are alot of, but I want to go through a dealer so I have piece of mind as I can check out a car very well but not a bike as I have no experience so if it dies 1 month down the track I have something to fall back on.

There are a huge number of these on trademe, I would suggest you look through that and also check out what deals other dealers will do. It is important to know whether the price you negotiate is a good one or not, no point paying $6K for a bike you could buy off trademe for $3.5K - but not too bad to pay $5.5K for a bike that would cost you at least close to $5K from trademe. Knowledge is power!

[vgcspares]

it's worth pointing out that "cash" ain't that attractive to a dealer so you won't get any unique discount:

they have to pay GST cos the bike's on the books, hence nothing saved by taking cash

they can make a turn on arranging finance - again no incentive to give anything in exchange for a cash sale

[Burtha]

Good thread guys, am looking at buying next month probably so this has been valuable info - great stuff.
Seems me thoughts were heading in a similar direction so cheers.
:2thumbsup

[ManDownUnder]

We have a guy in here that used to sell bikes... very kindly put a few words together. It's well worth the read and SARGE is responsible for a couple of my friends saving copious dollars over time.

Buying a used bike (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=26572)

[MSTRS]

I thought this thread was about drugs...
Sorry, as you were.

[RC1]

I thought this thread was about drugs...
Sorry, as you were.

so did i, must ring them now :innocent:

[warewolf]

the mark up on gear is huge so keep that in mind.

if its a 250 and they are asking 6k for it, you can bet they paid around 4k maybe less.Yebbut don't confuse markup with profit. Markup has to pay for all the dealer's costs, like wages to the sales person for a start. Rent. Cost of complying with all the jiggery-pokery being done with acc/kiwisaver/employment law lately (and I mean just implementing the changes, not the actual payouts those things require). Financing the 4k outlay until someone buys it. Warranty obligations. etc etc ad nauseum.


You just have to look at the difference between private sales,and dealerships prices.

You can't tell me the dealers aren't making any money?See above. And conversely, you can't tell me that the dealers are making any money, can you?

It never ceases to amaze me how people mistakenly presume dealers are profiteering rip-off merchants. Yes there is some negotiating room in sales, but nowhere near as much as the difference between private and dealer prices.

[Kiwi Graham]

Hey Mate, cheers for taking the time to write that

Nah I don't have the cash to pay for it, I'm only 20, scraping the bottom of the barrel to get enough money for protective gear which I am very reluctant to go cheap on (I enjoy the ability to walk/eat/type/screw and live) I am getting a loan for 95% of the bike, and have saved alittle for the gear. I have't been 100% specific regarding the price as I don't want to identify the bike to be honest. It's alittle above/below the $6000 mark, just wanted to see peoples reactions.. It's a Hyosung GT250R which there are alot of, but I want to go through a dealer so I have piece of mind as I can check out a car very well but not a bike as I have no experience so if it dies 1 month down the track I have something to fall back on.

No going to walk in there and be an arsehole, but i'm a sales person so making deals comes quote natually. I'll go in with a good attitude and see what happens. Can't wait,

One more question, yes I see that the Hyosungs are being sold with a 2-year warranty.

1) How would I claim on this, eg. would i need the origional invoice for the origional purchase

2) is this transferable?

3) What services need to be done to be able to make a claim

4) What does this cover?

Thanks again for your time all to comment, really is appreciated and I look forward to meeting some of you at rides.

Aaron


Cheers
Aaron

Hi Aaron, If your getting your finance through the dealer you are in a better position to do a deal.
Include in the deal you saftey gear and work on the total price. Dealers make a return on finance, accessories and the bike but not alot in each so lumping them together would make any deal sweeter!

1. Yes you need evidence of date of purchase.
2. Yes
3. All servises have to be within recommended intervals by the dealer or approved other.
4. Usually parts that are not considered to be consumables, eg brake pads light bulbs, tyres, etc

[thehollowmen]

I'd like to second this:



See above. And conversely, you can't tell me that the dealers are making any money, can you?


Don't we have a thread about dealerships closing?

My advice is to make an offer. They can always laugh at you, and if you can laugh at yourself you can laugh with them.

Consider though; A dealer will support you if things go wrong. And you might be able to bargain in some free / cheap equipment extra.

But don't be offended if they laugh at you, or give you a shitty look. They probably get laughable offers twenty times a day. Especially from the Suzuki (GSXR) riders: "Oh, you've had that Soft-tail / electro glide / road king on the floor a while, I could take it of your hand for" and then they count out what change is in their pocket.
I guess that would get old quickly.

[naphazoline]

It never ceases to amaze me how people mistakenly presume dealers are profiteering rip-off merchants..

Your words,not mine.

I'm aware that dealers have their overheads,but that doesn't mean i should shell out extra $$$ for a warranty,and some of the other support,just to keep their heads above water.

It's a competitive world,and if you want to stay in the game,(no matter what bussiness you're in,) you're going to have to offer good prices/discounts/package deals,at a competitive rate,otherwise buyers go elsewhere.

Thats just how it is.It affects my work aswell.

[McDuck]

It is not to hard to work out the rough costs of the dealer, rent (those shops demand big coin), staff, cleaning etc (remember to add about 10% for holidays and sick), plus servaces (eletricity, office supplys, bike cleaning etc) plus 12+% PA of finance on the floor stock, i dont know how the hell they do it.

[Robert Taylor]

As a cash buyer,the barganing power is with YOU,not them.

I'd actually start lower,at perhaps $4,200.Tell em you've seen a bike the same on Trademe,only thing holding you back is it's in another town or something.

Never go up to the sticker price!Dealers are in the business to make money,your business is to try and save money.Who really cares what his margins are?

I'd go as high as $5,400,and expect discounts on the next set of tyres,servicing etc (coz I'm a tight bastard like that).

I guess in the end,it's your moolah!

Good Luck!:yes:

Well I for one actually care that ALL small business owners make decent margin. They in turn employ people and if the unit profitability is low ( more often than not ) that puts pressure on to cap wage rates at low levels. Here in NZ workers are more often than not poorly paid and all the discounting that goes on substanially helps to compound that fact.

[Robert Taylor]

the mark up on gear is huge so keep that in mind.

if its a 250 and they are asking 6k for it, you can bet they paid around 4k maybe less.

Theoretical markup yes, reality most often no.

[Robert Taylor]

It is not to hard to work out the rough costs of the dealer, rent (those shops demand big coin), staff, cleaning etc (remember to add about 10% for holidays and sick), plus servaces (eletricity, office supplys, bike cleaning etc) plus 12+% PA of finance on the floor stock, i dont know how the hell they do it.

Yep, doesnt add up does it. Another big dealer has gone to the wall this week, a discounter dealer.

[Creeping Death]

Well I for one actually care that ALL small business owners make decent margin. They in turn employ people and if the unit profitability is low ( more often than not ) that puts pressure on to cap wage rates at low levels. Here in NZ workers are more often than not poorly paid and all the discounting that goes on substanially helps to compound that fact.

Why the hel would anyone care what a retailers margin is?It's like these Green loving tree hugging dolphin strokers worried about our carbon footprint!Who gives a fook!

What I give a shit about is how I can save money,like I said,I'm a tight arsed bastard.

I work hard for my moolah,and if I have to spend more to help save someones job?Get fucked.

It's a 'Survival of the fittest' world out there and if a Business or retailer can't cut the mustard,they will be judged,probably by Simon Cowell.:cool:

[McDuck]

Why the hel would anyone care what a retailers margin is?It's like these Green loving tree hugging dolphin strokers worried about our carbon footprint!Who gives a fook!

What I give a shit about is how I can save money,like I said,I'm a tight arsed bastard.

I work hard for my moolah,and if I have to spend more to help save someones job?Get fucked.

It's a 'Survival of the fittest' world out there and if a Business or retailer can't cut the mustard,they will be judged,probably by Simon Cowell.:cool:

Would you still think that when you are unemployed because all your companys cliants were to tight to pay what the product needed to?

[dipshit]

Would you still think that when you are unemployed because all your companys cliants were to tight to pay what the product needed to?

'The race to the bottom'... as it's termed.

[Headbanger]

Its the dealers job to get the highest price they can, Its the buyers concern to get the best priced bike they can.

The customer has no more business concerning themselves with how the shop is run then the shop does knowing how the customer runs their finances.

If they aren't prepared to sell the bike cheaply then they will tell you, Thats how haggling works, Its not like you can force them to take a loss.

If they can't move on a bike at all they will shut down the haggling quick smart, Only a dumb shit on either side would take offence.

[Headbanger]

Would you still think that when you are unemployed because all your companys clients were to tight to pay what the product needed to?

I would be thinking the company seriously misjudged their product and target market if buyers refused to buy it.

[Creeping Death]

Would you still think that when you are unemployed because all your companys cliants were to tight to pay what the product needed to?

Damn straight I would.It means someone higher up the chain ain't doing their job properly.

NEGOTIATE to get the BEST possible price for yourself.After all,we all love a bargain,and if it ain't forthcoming,GO ELSEWHERE.Someone else will supply the product at a price that is agreeable to both parties.

[McJim]

I am of a belief that a shop should put their best price on show otherwise they are being deceitful. If the price is too high I move on until I find the product at the price I like.

There are many shops that may have unknowingly lost my business because of this but that's their loss not mine.

I usually wait for the sales anyway. Motomail FTW! :2thumbsup:

[Aaron_newrider]

Why the hel would anyone care what a retailers margin is?It's like these Green loving tree hugging dolphin strokers worried about our carbon footprint!Who gives a fook!

What I give a shit about is how I can save money,like I said,I'm a tight arsed bastard.

I work hard for my moolah,and if I have to spend more to help save someones job?Get fucked.

It's a 'Survival of the fittest' world out there and if a Business or retailer can't cut the mustard,they will be judged,probably by Simon Cowell.:cool:

That's a really dumb comment.

I work for an HP distributor in Auckland, sales. Sometimes my customers call me for help "aaron, i know pricing has gone up month end but i need this price can you help me out" as they have guaranteed their customer

They only ask when they really need it, and my answer is always "of coarse" and I sell at cost or sometimes below if they are a very good customer who I will easily make my money back later on.

Why? Because if they aren't making any money, they aren't going to be there for long to buy my product

How does this relate to buying a motorbike from a dealer? This may be your only decent local motorbike repair place, or spare parts place. Or you may want that 3-month warranty honoured. Or maybe a mate/relative of yours works for....

them,
their bike supplier,
the bike importer,
the biker suppliers freight agent,
the bike manufacturer,
their advertising agency
their advertising printing company (and everoyne vertical from that)
the finance guy who gives them finance whilst holding floor stock
their clothing brands wholesaler
their clothing bands importer
their clothing brands courier
their clothing brands freight agent
Shall I continue?


Well, if your mate/ralative works for any of these they will be effected.


Yes we want a good price - but a fair price that isin't going to rip a hole in the dealers arse.


:calm:

[ynot slow]

No trade is best,cash or hp don't matter as dealer gets paid by finance co next day or so,and they get a rebate depending on finance charged/term.

Instead of a cash discount go back asking what gear will you give me as I need helmet,jacket etc,you might get $1000 free.

[McJim]

No trade is best,cash or hp don't matter as dealer gets paid by finance co next day or so,and they get a rebate depending on finance charged/term.

Instead of a cash discount go back asking what gear will you give me as I need helmet,jacket etc,you might get $1000 free.

Because of the commission earned from selling a finance product (a loan) the vendor can be more amenable. I remember a store in Glasgow (electronics) that could sell products at cost because they made their profits from the loans they sold on behalf of the finance house. Cash sales pushed the prices up! :rofl:

[Creeping Death]

That's a really dumb comment.

I work for an HP distributor in Auckland, sales. Sometimes my customers call me for help "aaron, i know pricing has gone up month end but i need this price can you help me out" as they have guaranteed their customer

They only ask when they really need it, and my answer is always "of coarse" and I sell at cost or sometimes below if they are a very good customer who I will easily make my money back later on.

Why? Because if they aren't making any money, they aren't going to be there for long to buy my product

How does this relate to buying a motorbike from a dealer? This may be your only decent local motorbike repair place, or spare parts place. Or you may want that 3-month warranty honoured. Or maybe a mate/relative of yours works for....

them,
their bike supplier,
the bike importer,
the biker suppliers freight agent,
the bike manufacturer,
their advertising agency
their advertising printing company (and everoyne vertical from that)
the finance guy who gives them finance whilst holding floor stock
their clothing brands wholesaler
their clothing bands importer
their clothing brands courier
their clothing brands freight agent
Shall I continue?


Well, if your mate/ralative works for any of these they will be effected.


Yes we want a good price - but a fair price that isin't going to rip a hole in the dealers arse.


:calm:

Bro,
Theres a mighty big difference between having a regular customer and a one off buyer.Sure,the regulars get the best deals but that's NOT what this thread was about.Comprende?

[Aaron_newrider]

Bro,
Theres a mighty big difference between having a regular customer and a one off buyer.Sure,the regulars get the best deals but that's NOT what this thread was about.Comprende?

Just giving the guy an answer to his question on why someone would care if the reseller makes any margin. Sorry but some people do care if the reseller makes some money, as they enjoy the service and want the company to stay in business so don't mind paying a fair ammount to keep them there.

Supporting your local also feels good sometimes.

[Creeping Death]

Supporting your local also feels good sometimes.

Yep,your dead right there,our corner dairy which was within walking distance(Ok,I lived 3 houses away)shut up shop about 3 months ago because I believe the Mall 3km down the road was just too good.Dairies,good for stuff like milk,bread which are marked up heaps but hey,10 minutes down the road,I can get that and more at half the price!Pop quiz hot shot?Whadda you do...whadda you dooo...

[Headbanger]

Yep,your dead right there,our corner dairy which was within walking distance(Ok,I lived 3 houses away)shut up shop about 3 months ago because I believe the Mall 3km down the road was just too good.Dairies,good for stuff like milk,bread which are marked up heaps but hey,10 minutes down the road,I can get that and more at half the price!Pop quiz hot shot?Whadda you do...whadda you dooo...

I have three dairies within 1km of my house, all with different prices and product ranges.

I go to the one who hires all the hot chicks to serve.

Thats just how damn shallow I am.

[Creeping Death]

I have three dairies within 1km of my house, all with different prices and product ranges.

I go to the one who hires all the hot chicks to serve.

Thats just how damn shallow I am.

Bling for you bro,I like your stylz!:2thumbsup

[Robert Taylor]

Just giving the guy an answer to his question on why someone would care if the reseller makes any margin. Sorry but some people do care if the reseller makes some money, as they enjoy the service and want the company to stay in business so don't mind paying a fair ammount to keep them there.

Supporting your local also feels good sometimes.

Unfortunately I think there are so many people with a hard nosed attitude and they have absolutely no comprehension of how much they are feeding a degradation of service and in the end event their own standard of living. Pointless arguing with them. ''Cheap is best even if the metallurgy is akin to weetbix''
I support local as much as I can and dont begrudge EVERYONE AND ANYONE a decent standard of living.

[naphazoline]

....I go to the one who hires all the hot chicks to serve.

Thats just how damn shallow I am.

You've hit the nail on the head!!!

These dying bike retailers need some hot chicks selling their wares.
It might just save their arses.LOL.

[naphazoline]

Unfortunately I think there are so many people with a hard nosed attitude and they have absolutely no comprehension of how much they are feeding a degradation of service and in the end event their own standard of living. Pointless arguing with them. ''Cheap is best even if the metallurgy is akin to weetbix''
I support local as much as I can and dont begrudge EVERYONE AND ANYONE a decent standard of living.

I think most of us like to support our local bussinesses,but,.... "begrudge EVERYONE AND ANYONE a decent standard of living"???,.... Is a bit extreme don't you think?

Some people might have an endless supply of cash to throw around,but the rest of us NEED to shop for less!

[98tls]

In saying that after spending 9 years selling bikes and cars in the past i only go to a dealer when necessary,things may have changed these days,i doubt it,even franchised dealers sold warrantys at "you just got arse raped" mark ups without blinking an eye,12.5 % on a new vehicle..fuck that,considering if at the end of a 1/4 things got tight they would give them away and claim a rebate from the factory.Truth is they make far more from used cars and mechanical/parts workshops anyway.Case in point,i rang the local Firestone tyre people for a price on 4 good 18 inch tyres for an XR6,the price was laughable compared to what i could get them for in Christchurch,i rang the local guy back and quoted said price which was $100s different,his reply "we are local":beer:My reply was "at that price you might as well be on Mars".

[want-a-harley]

a bit off track, but if you buy new with 25% down what is the usual interest rate for the finance arranged by a bike shop?

[Robert Taylor]

I think most of us like to support our local bussinesses,but,.... "begrudge EVERYONE AND ANYONE a decent standard of living"???,.... Is a bit extreme don't you think?

Some people might have an endless supply of cash to throw around,but the rest of us NEED to shop for less!

Did that come out wrong? Everyone and anyone should have a decent standard of living, thats what I meant. And one of the reasons everyone does not have an endless supply of cash is because of hard nosed dog eat dog attitudes from the top downwards. Think about it, some of us have long and hard.

[warewolf]

Your words,not mine.

I'm aware that dealers have their overheads,but that doesn't mean i should shell out extra $$$ for a warranty,and some of the other support,just to keep their heads above water.

It's a competitive world,and if you want to stay in the game,(no matter what bussiness you're in,) you're going to have to offer good prices/discounts/package deals,at a competitive rate,otherwise buyers go elsewhere.Yes, my words, but it echoes common sentiment of (unjustified) ill-feeling towards dealers.

Dealers are competitive, they know very well what they are up against. But a professional is always going to cost more than a hobbyist DIY, and generally offer better service/value despite the higher outlay.


What I give a shit about is how I can save money,like I said,I'm a tight arsed bastard.

I work hard for my moolah,and if I have to spend more to help save someones job?Get fucked.

It's a 'Survival of the fittest' world out there and if a Business or retailer can't cut the mustard,they will be judged,probably by Simon Cowell.:cool:OK, so tell me why I should pay you fair margin but not a dealer? What makes you so special? Are you implying the dealer hasn't worked hard for his moolah? Why should the dealer pay more (which is what discounting is) so you can have your bike?


These dying bike retailers need some hot chicks selling their wares.
It might just save their arses.LOL.Riiiiiiight. Yes, LOL, but did you read the recent post about the customer who walked away -from the shop for good maybe- because the 'hot chick' knew nothing about the product, or enough about customer service to be able to liaise with the knowledgeable person.


Some people might have an endless supply of cash to throw around,but the rest of us NEED to shop for less!Actually, no you don't. Go read "Affluenza". Rather than buy everything you want unsustainably cheap - cause that is the reality of the discussion here - buy what you need at a fair price. And again I reiterate, your local dealer is in the exact same position you (we) are... what's the count... 9 closed in the last 6 months? Does that sound like dealers have an endless supply of cash to fund discounts??


RT is on the ball. What's the saying? You can shear a sheep many times, but only skin it once.

[Headbanger]

Way out of proportion.

The discussion has been about getting the best priced possible, If the dealer sells below cost then the dealer is at fault, Not the customer.

You can't force someone to sell at 1 cent less then they want to.

[McDuck]

The other benefet of buying from a dealer is i had a missunderstanding with my local over a new frount tyre.

I thought i mad eit clear i needed it today (ordered tusday) they thought i ment next friday (easter?)

Anyway i am about to go and get a better tyre (that they had in stock) insted of the tyre i ordered but they do not have in yet, saving me about 50 bucks and i get to take the bike up to the BOP tomorro.

[naphazoline]

But a professional is always going to cost more than a hobbyist DIY, and generally offer better service/value despite the higher outlay..

Well......i just hope they remember this,when they go under.

All the bitching and whining about "poor retailers",is not going to make people pay more for the same product.
No one told them they had to be retailers,it was their choice.

So if they're looking for sympathy,they better wake up.(or find another job they can handle.)

[Robert Taylor]

Well......i just hope they remember this,when they go under.

All the bitching and whining about "poor retailers",is not going to make people pay more for the same product.
No one told them they had to be retailers,it was their choice.

So if they're looking for sympathy,they better wake up.(or find another job they can handle.)

Ok, a previous post very perceptively mentioned the word sustainability.

If you yourself ( hypothetically ) wake up one day and find your job is gone because your employer went under then that may just be a reality check for you.
The cheapening of products because manufacturers like the Chinese are making things out of weetbix and tissue paper is ultimately on a one way road to nowhere. I think there are fewer and fewer people left who actually know what true quality is. The drive for cheaper and cheaper products has effectively lowered living standards and one day there just has to be a realignment. Certainly there needs to be a realignment in thinking rather than blindly following what is dished out as excuse for product.

[MarkH]

The cheapening of products because manufacturers like the Chinese are making things out of weetbix and tissue paper is ultimately on a one way road to nowhere. I think there are fewer and fewer people left who actually know what true quality is. The drive for cheaper and cheaper products has effectively lowered living standards and one day there just has to be a realignment. Certainly there needs to be a realignment in thinking rather than blindly following what is dished out as excuse for product.

I think I must be missing something here? Are people talking about buying Keeway because they don't want to pay a premium for Suzuki (replace with whatever brand, I think you know what I'm saying)? Until this post I THOUGHT that the discussion was about not wanting to pay more for the SAME product!

Personally I decide what I want to buy then I try to get the best deal on that product. Generally I have done well out of buying high quality products, even if I have scored a reasonable discount on my purchase. I like high quality, it is good to buy something that will last well.

[Robert Taylor]

I think I must be missing something here? Are people talking about buying Keeway because they don't want to pay a premium for Suzuki (replace with whatever brand, I think you know what I'm saying)? Until this post I THOUGHT that the discussion was about not wanting to pay more for the SAME product!

Personally I decide what I want to buy then I try to get the best deal on that product. Generally I have done well out of buying high quality products, even if I have scored a reasonable discount on my purchase. I like high quality, it is good to buy something that will last well.

It didnt come out as clearly from my side. What I was attempting to say is that there is often a correlation between people wanting cheaper and cheaper prices and manufacturers obliging by making their products cheaper. BUT it has clearly gone too far because there is so much stuff on the market now that is absolute rubbish. Like the highest proprtion of Chinese no name scooters for example. Sure you get a great price, initially. Then the pain starts.

[JacksColdSweat]

Limited margin is no longer the domain of motorcycle dealers.

When I sold my WRX STi a couple of years ago a dealer called me to look at it. He drove it and liked it - I wanted 18500 for it and he offered 18. I told him "you'll have it on the yard for 26!"

He promised me "It'll be 21000 - and I'd just about shake your hand on that" and he gave me 18500 for it

A week later I saw it advertised - 21000... that was after they cleaned the tar spots off it that I couldn't get off and valeted it

Even car sales aren't what they used to be - too many guppies crowding those fishtanks...

[portokiwi]

Dealers are ok, Most of them want a sale and will either knock down the price or chuck in some gear. Same old.... its your call.

[R1madness]

Bro,
Theres a mighty big difference between having a regular customer and a one off buyer.Sure,the regulars get the best deals but that's NOT what this thread was about.Comprende?

One off buyers should not EXPECT any discount..... That is for regular customers that keep my business going from week to week. Do you really think making stuff all to nothing on a bike just to keep you happy is going to help my business? I dont think so....

The funny thing is the people that expect discount are also the first to whine and complain... you sold me this bike 7 months ago and it has blown a indercator bulb you sold me a piece of shit and i want you to suck my cock while you pay me $100 and replace my bulb for free......
Therefor the discount demanders get the least service and least other std buyers extras (like a full tank of gas, free delivery, free extended warentee, long term discount on servicing, discount on accessories and apparel etc) just to save a few dollars at the start.

Its all about how you approach the dealer. If you are interested in the bike then the price should be close to your budget or you shouldn't even go look at it. Be honest with yourself and the dealer about your expectations.
Most dealers are pretty open to negotiate but the deal has to work in both directions or its a not worth doing.

[Robert Taylor]

One off buyers should not EXPECT any discount..... That is for regular customers that keep my business going from week to week. Do you really think making stuff all to nothing on a bike just to keep you happy is going to help my business? I dont think so....

The funny thing is the people that expect discount are also the first to whine and complain... you sold me this bike 7 months ago and it has blown a indercator bulb you sold me a piece of shit and i want you to suck my cock while you pay me $100 and replace my bulb for free......
Therefor the discount demanders get the least service and least other std buyers extras (like a full tank of gas, free delivery, free extended warentee, long term discount on servicing, discount on accessories and apparel etc) just to save a few dollars at the start.

Its all about how you approach the dealer. If you are interested in the bike then the price should be close to your budget or you shouldn't even go look at it. Be honest with yourself and the dealer about your expectations.
Most dealers are pretty open to negotiate but the deal has to work in both directions or its a not worth doing.

Its also interesting to note Ian that the dealers that have gone to the wall recently have been discounters. High turnover, high overheads, low margins.

[AD345]

Fascinating thread.

As far as the OP goes - I'd try hard to get 5 - 10% off the sticker price OR an agreement on servicing, accessory costs. When buying a vehicle I usually take one of 2 approaches:

1. I have a number I want to pay and either the dealer can meet it or there is no sale. Thats the money approach.

2. I have a vehicle I really want to own and I will haggle and work with my own finances and the dealers to do whatever I need to to get the vehicle. Thats the "wannit" approach.

The first I use with cars - the second with bikes (as a broad rule of thumb anyway)



As to the margins and sustainability of cheap pricing discussion.........

The industry I work in makes a national staple food. For a long time in the 80's and 90's there was a determined lowering of the average market price pushed by our competitors. The driving down of the Net Sales Value eventually pushed the company I worked for out of business. I ended up taking a reasonably senior role in the largest industry player and we have spent the last couple of years clawing back that NSV lost over the previous 10. Part of that has involved simply buying up other players to get them out of the market. Great for the owners - they retired. Great for their workers - they were getting paid absolute shit amounts. I think we raised the average hourly rate by 15% or more in 12 months.

The consumers - not happy. Blinded by greed and encouraged by shortsighted profit takers they never knew that the market was unsustainable and we, as a country, came within a gnats testicle hair of having to import a basic foodstuff until foreign money became available to rebuild a shattered industry.

It didn't happen - but jeez it was close.

Expect your grocery bill to rise for a few years to come yet boys and girls. I know no-one likes it but we're paying the piper for 2 decades of greed.

Greed is NOT good

Chasing price to the exclusion of all else is greedy.




One day I oughta write a book

[warewolf]

Well......i just hope they remember this,when they go under.

All the bitching and whining about "poor retailers",is not going to make people pay more for the same product.
No one told them they had to be retailers,it was their choice.

So if they're looking for sympathy,they better wake up.(or find another job they can handle.)They're not asking for sympathy, any more than the bleating customer is. All the bitching about prices just comes across as, "I can't afford it, so the dealer has to give it to me at his expense, 'cos I'm doing it tough/am a tight-arse."

I was just trying to point out that the common misconception of people in motorcycle retail being rich money-grabbing ogres is wrong. Largely, they are motorcycle enthusiasts - just like you and me - and trying to make a living. They are doing it just as tough as the customer. They are living, working and playing in the same economic environment. I just can't get my head around this implied concept that when the customer is under fiscal pressure, the dealer is somehow magically exempt.


Selling stuff cheap (or as RT says, selling cheap stuff) is no guarantee that they won't go under. Indeed, it appears they are the ones who have been first up against the wall.

[mctshirt]

Simple economics is about supply and demand and the fact something is only worth what someone else will pay for it. That applies to motorcycle vendors no more and no less than anyone else.

A good example is the real estate market - no matter what you think your house is worth the price will ultimately be determined by the buyer. You get to decide if there is a sale or not depending how much you want to sell but the buyer sets the price depending on how much they wish to spend to own your particular piece of paradise. If they decide your place is the only one that fits their criteria then supply is low and demand is high (one house and one buyer) and this will increase price. If your place is much like the other ten they have looked at then supply is high and demand is low (10 houses and one buyer) which means the buyer will go with the one they consider the best value for money - most likely the cheapest if all the houses are pretty much the same according to their criteria. If the buyer feels the asking price is too much they will either try to strike a deal (offer less) or keep looking.

The market sets the price based on how much the buyer wants it and how much the seller wants to sell - price is negotiable.

In the case of the motorcycle the selling price is dependant on how much you want it it and how much the bike shop wants to sell it at the price you offer. How much you offer is based on how much you want it (is it the bike you've always wanted within your budget that will suit your riding habits). How much the vendor sells it for is going to depend on demand for the bike (is it a popular bike in good condition and easy to sell or a dog of a trade-in with a face only a mother could love?) and profit margin (can they sell it without losing money factoring in the deal they did to get in their showroom?)

That is why the chinese stuff will get harder to sell because after the initial euphoria of low low prices we are all learning from bitter experience that it requires constant repair meaning demand will reduce because it's crap no matter how high the supply.

Put a dollar value on how much you want the motorcycle and that's your price :baby:

[naphazoline]

I think this thread has exposed some of the BULLSHIT that salespeople are prone to talking.One of the very things that turn some people off them.

Yes,you guys have SOME valid points,and SOME i don't disagree with,but SOME of you are taking offense to some peoples views,and these are your potenial customers.

What ever happened to "the customers always come first." ?
An attitude that can win regular bussiness.
I think SOME of the attitudes displayed in this thread are as far removed from this as it can get.
Seems SOME bussinesses are only concerned with selfishness.

I understand that SOME customers expect FAR too much,and their demands can be simply over the top,but just listen to yourselves.You can't tell me you're not over doing your bit.
Talking about your customers,like SOME of you have in here,it seems some bussinesses are destined too go down the tube.

I leaving this for SOMEone else too drag on.:done:

[DMNTD]

I started working in bike sales just over a year ago and have my eyes opened right up as to what it's like on "the other side" of the deal.
I'd describe myself as an astute buyer...always trying to push the deal a little further than I know it probably would be possible...after 'the' deal as such.
As far as I was concerned if the dealer/seller didn't want to accept my terms then it was their right, after all there are a LOT of expenses involved in running a business and now that I'm in the industry I've found out just how much is involved running a motorcycle dealership :blink:
Some people need to understand when selling a secondhand bike a dealership MUST have enough margin to cover anything that may go wrong within the Consumer Guarantee's Act period. We've lost money on bike when we haven't allowed enough margin on several bikes...just trying to give the customer a deal. What would happen if we kept doing this? No more bike shop...no more job...therefore no more bike for this honky! :shutup:

At work I expect people to try it on...in fact I'm disappointed if they don't! It's simply the nature of the game innit? What I've taken from being the purchaser to now the sales manager is that people feel better when some sort of a discount is given...they feel 'looked after'. Human nature again.
However looking after someone is far more than just a cash discount. There's sooooooo much more to sales than immediate financial savings/gains(depends on which side your on).
After sales support or simply sharing an opinion IMO is far more important and if one is to ask my customers...they agree!